also, if you're afraid of a high scoring offense, you should want to, you know, try to keep them off the field. and you don't do that by misfiring 50% of the time on 54 pass attempts with your backup quarterback.
conveniently you didn't answer the question if you thought we could score 28 or more points running the ball a high majority of the time.
sorry. it seemed like the question was rhetorical but i forgot who i was conversing with.
running the ball a lot more than they did would have increased the odds of the patriots scoring less than 28 points because their offense would not have been on the field as much as they were.
we're lucky they didn't put up 50 on us the way that game went. last thing a team with a backup qb who is playing poorly wants to do is get into a shootout with the patriots.
mccoy is the eagles best player and they barely used him.
and i guess i will just assume that you don't know what an adjustment is.
still didn't answer the question.
come on dude no way going into the game was there any scenario where we weren't giving up at least 3 or 4 touchdowns to brady no matter how long he had the ball.
conveniently you didn't answer the question if you thought we could score 28 or more points running the ball a high majority of the time.
sorry. it seemed like the question was rhetorical but i forgot who i was conversing with.
running the ball a lot more than they did would have increased the odds of the patriots scoring less than 28 points because their offense would not have been on the field as much as they were.
we're lucky they didn't put up 50 on us the way that game went. last thing a team with a backup qb who is playing poorly wants to do is get into a shootout with the patriots.
mccoy is the eagles best player and they barely used him.
and i guess i will just assume that you don't know what an adjustment is.
still didn't answer the question.
come on dude no way going into the game was there any scenario where we weren't giving up at least 3 or 4 touchdowns to brady no matter how long he had the ball.
pretty sure i answered the question dude.
might want to check how the giants and steelers beat them a few weeks ago too.
i'm sensing if you were coaching you'd have forfeited.
might want to check how the giants and steelers beat them a few weeks ago too.
i'm sensing if you were coaching you'd have forfeited.
i didn't see where you said you thought the eagles could or couldn't have scored 28+ points against the pats running the ball the majority of the time. that was the question i wanted answered because in no scenario did i see the eagles holding them below in the 20s at best. and if our receivers includig mccoy hadn't dropped some of those balls the game would have been within reach for us.
might want to check how the giants and steelers beat them a few weeks ago too.
i'm sensing if you were coaching you'd have forfeited.
i didn't see where you said you thought the eagles could or couldn't have scored 28+ points against the pats running the ball the majority of the time. that was the question i wanted answered because in no scenario did i see the eagles holding them below in the 20s at best. and if our receivers includig mccoy hadn't dropped some of those balls the game would have been within reach for us.
why do you spend so much time talking about something you know so little about? seriously man. i'm not even trying to give you a hard time here. i'm really not. i feel bad but it's just obvious you don't understand this stuff...
look, you seem like you were scared to death that the patriots were going to put up a ton of points headed into the game. your quarterback is out with an injury. one of your starting receivers was out too. why on earth would you want to try to outscore him with vince young of all quarterbacks? according to you he "blows."
why not put in the hands of your best player? the leading rusher in the nfl? why not follow the same formula that worked for the steelers and giants just a few weeks earlier? the same formula that held the patriots to 17 points and 20 points respectively? (obviously you were not aware of those games).
play to your strengths. there was no way the eagles were going to beat the patriots with vince young dropping back to pass 83% of the time. that sounds funny just typing it out. they hit a few bombs early which was awesome. the deep threat is one of the reasons why our running game has worked so well this year. so frustrating.
why do you spend so much time talking about something you know so little about? seriously man. i'm not even trying to give you a hard time here. i'm really not. i feel bad but it's just obvious you don't understand this stuff...
look, you seem like you were scared to death that the patriots were going to put up a ton of points headed into the game. your quarterback is out with an injury. one of your starting receivers was out too. why on earth would you want to try to outscore him with vince young of all quarterbacks? according to you he "blows."
why not put in the hands of your best player? the leading rusher in the nfl? why not follow the same formula that worked for the steelers and giants just a few weeks earlier? the same formula that held the patriots to 17 points and 20 points respectively? (obviously you were not aware of those games).
play to your strengths. there was no way the eagles were going to beat the patriots with vince young dropping back to pass 83% of the time. that sounds funny just typing it out. they hit a few bombs early which was awesome. the deep threat is one of the reasons why our running game has worked so well this year. so frustrating.
how many points do you think the eagles coud have scored running the ball the majority of the time this past sunday? answer the damn question. and tell me if you think that would have been enough to win.
and i know you can't win if you don't score and you aren't scoring running the ball a majority of the time. since you won't say how many points you think they could have scored running the ball (and just shrug off that the pats secondary sucks and had a wide receiver playing back there) i can only guess you think not too many.
point's win games, not rushing yards. as has been proven this year.
why do you spend so much time talking about something you know so little about? seriously man. i'm not even trying to give you a hard time here. i'm really not. i feel bad but it's just obvious you don't understand this stuff...
look, you seem like you were scared to death that the patriots were going to put up a ton of points headed into the game. your quarterback is out with an injury. one of your starting receivers was out too. why on earth would you want to try to outscore him with vince young of all quarterbacks? according to you he "blows."
why not put in the hands of your best player? the leading rusher in the nfl? why not follow the same formula that worked for the steelers and giants just a few weeks earlier? the same formula that held the patriots to 17 points and 20 points respectively? (obviously you were not aware of those games).
play to your strengths. there was no way the eagles were going to beat the patriots with vince young dropping back to pass 83% of the time. that sounds funny just typing it out. they hit a few bombs early which was awesome. the deep threat is one of the reasons why our running game has worked so well this year. so frustrating.
how many points do you think the eagles coud have scored running the ball the majority of the time this past sunday? answer the damn question. and tell me if you think that would have been enough to win.
point's win games, not rushing yards. as has been proven this year.
points win games. that is insightful. you gonna score a ton of points with vince young throwing 54 times huh? that worked out pretty well....by the way 400 passing yards apparently don't win games either, you knucklehead.
the steelers beat them 25-17. the giants beat them 24-20. both of these teams utilized a ball control offense that was designed to keep the ball away from this high powered pat's offense. giants ran it 26 times. steelers ran it 21 times. both those teams had their starting qb and reciever playing. and both teams don't have a running back nearly good as the one andy and marty gave it to just 10 times.
points win games. that is insightful. you gonna score a ton of points with vince young throwing 54 times huh? that worked out pretty well.
the steelers beat them 25-17. the giants beat them 24-20. both of these teams utilized a ball control offense that was designed to keep the ball away from this high powered pat's offense. giants ran it 26 times. steelers ran it 21 times. both those teams had their starting qb and reciever playing. and both teams don't have a running back nearly good as the one andy and marty gave it to just 10 times.
1st off those two teams defenses are much better than ours. do you forget our defense sucks? and there is no way we were scoring 24 or 25 points running the ball the majority of the time.
now this week i can see your argument for running the ball because you shouldn't need a high scoring game to beat the seahawks.
Ps: they did put up 20 and if their stud receiver hadn't dropped 2 sure TDs well i don't think i have to do the math for you.
the steelers have a good defense, yes. but their leading rusher is only averaging 3.8 yards per rush. ours is over 5 per rush....yet they stuck with the ground game to keep the ball away from brady.
and the giants defense is much better than the eagles? huh??? in what category? you are so lost you don't even know what you're talking about pjhawks. they just gave up close to 600 yards...last night! did you know there was a game on last night? :?
the giants defense is awful. just awful. they are 26th against the pass. they are 24th against the rush. and 27th in points allowed! the eagles defense, while still bad, is better than the giants defense in literally any possible way you can measure it.
please stop talking about this sport. it's embarrassing. and i'm embarrassed for you.
the steelers have a good defense, yes. but their leading rusher is only averaging 3.8 yards per rush. ours is over 5 per rush....yet they stuck with the ground game to keep the ball away from brady.
and the giants defense is much better than the eagles? huh??? in what category? you are so lost you don't even know what you're talking about pjhawks. they just gave up close to 600 yards...last night! did you know there was a game on last night? :?
the giants defense is awful. just awful. they are 26th against the pass. they are 24th against the rush. and 27th in points allowed! the eagles defense, while still bad, is better than the giants defense in literally any possible way you can measure it.
please stop talking about this sport. it's embarrassing. and i'm embarrassed for you.
final comment - we scored 20 and our stud receiver dropped 2 sure touchdowns. should have had at least 34 points. again offensive game plan wasn't the issue.
ps: and giants faced a great passing team last night...
the steelers have a good defense, yes. but their leading rusher is only averaging 3.8 yards per rush. ours is over 5 per rush....yet they stuck with the ground game to keep the ball away from brady.
and the giants defense is much better than the eagles? huh??? in what category? you are so lost you don't even know what you're talking about pjhawks. they just gave up close to 600 yards...last night! did you know there was a game on last night? :?
the giants defense is awful. just awful. they are 26th against the pass. they are 24th against the rush. and 27th in points allowed! the eagles defense, while still bad, is better than the giants defense in literally any possible way you can measure it.
please stop talking about this sport. it's embarrassing. and i'm embarrassed for you.
final comment - we scored 20 and our stud receiver dropped 2 sure touchdowns. should have had at least 34 points. again offensive game plan wasn't the issue.
ps: and giants faced a great passing team last night...
i don't think it's possible for you to know less of what you're talking about. you cannot even properly respond to me.
tell us more about the giants great defense pjhawks. what makes them so good??
THIS is the kind fan who supports andy reid. THIS guy.
i didn't say the giants defense was good i said it was better than ours. i don't care about the stats - it's not fantasy football . stats don't mean shit. the eagles defense has blown 5 leads in the 4th quarter - no one is as bad as that. they can't make plays to win games and can't ever get a big stop. that is the epitome of a bad bad defense. so don't give me stats and try and tell me the eagles defnese is better than the giants or even the pats who stats suck too. nope juggler sorry dude ain't buying what you are selling there.
and you wanted albert haynesworth not once but twice this year so you aren't hitting the ball out of the park yourself :roll: :roll:
tell us more about the giants great defense pjhawks. what makes them so good??
THIS is the kind fan who supports andy reid. THIS guy.
i didn't say the giants defense was good i said it was better than ours. i don't care about the stats - it's not fantasy football . stats don't mean shit. the eagles defense has blown 5 leads in the 4th quarter - no one is as bad as that. they can't make plays to win games and can't ever get a big stop. that is the epitome of a bad bad defense. so don't give me stats and try and tell me the eagles defnese is better than the giants or even the pats who stats suck too. nope juggler sorry dude ain't buying what you are selling there.
specifically, though, since this isn't "fantasy football" what do you like about the giants defense? what about them makes them so much better than the eagles defense? are you able to backup what you said? or can you only list reasons why the eagles defense stinks?
face it, you don't know anything about any other team in the league other than the eagles...and you barely know about them. you make that more and more obvious with each post in here.
tell us more about the giants great defense pjhawks. what makes them so good??
THIS is the kind fan who supports andy reid. THIS guy.
i didn't say the giants defense was good i said it was better than ours. i don't care about the stats - it's not fantasy football . stats don't mean shit. the eagles defense has blown 5 leads in the 4th quarter - no one is as bad as that. they can't make plays to win games and can't ever get a big stop. that is the epitome of a bad bad defense. so don't give me stats and try and tell me the eagles defnese is better than the giants or even the pats who stats suck too. nope juggler sorry dude ain't buying what you are selling there.
specifically, though, since this isn't "fantasy football" what do you like about the giants defense? what about them makes them so much better than the eagles defense? are you able to backup what you said? or can you only list reasons why the eagles defense stinks?
face it, you don't know anything about any other team in the league other than the eagles...and you barely know about them. you make that more and more obvious with each post in here.
they haven't blown 5 4th quarters leads, despite now starting an undrafted rookie from of all places conestoga they compete, their d-line is still better than the eagles, and their dbacks aren't complete pussies and dogs like ours. would you really take the eagles defense over the giants? seriously if you've really watched this eagles defense you know they have no leadership and are soft as can be. it's not all about stats. intangibles matter. and this team defensively has nothing to offer.
part 2 - you also are on board with bringing in spags over reid with his stellar 3-year record currently at an outstanding 10-33 :roll: :roll: :roll:
so you don't care about such crazy stats like yards given up per game or points allowed per game, you just like making blanket claims that you cannot back up like "their d line is still better than the eagles." but then you proceed to rip their linebackers and "dbacks"--yet despite that, they are "way better" than the eagles defense. :? nice going. you've proved that you don't know what you're talking about again.
and, no, i didn't want haynesworth back twice (fixer) nor did i want steve spagnoula to replace andy reid (jammin).
listen, man, you already lost this argument. there's no need to further hammer that point home by bringing up stuff that has nothing to do with you thinking you can outscore tom brady by having a quarterback who you think "blows" throw the ball 83% of the time, while hardly using the best player on the team.
they did score a garbage touchdown with a few seconds left to play though! yes!
i cannot fathom that people in this thread still would take albert haynesworth.
and steve spagnulo with his 9-31 career record over andy reid.
absurd doesn't even to begin to describe these 2 things said. even more absurd than anything i've said and lord knows i've pressed the boundary of the absurd. haynesworth and spagnuolo :shock: :shock:
yes a 9-31 record over andy reid.... :oops:
who would you like? you said it would be time for him to go if they don't make the playoffs right?
like i said, if reid stays, i would love for spags to come back as d coordinator if he gets fired in st louis. he is a very respected coach in this league though, despite that bad record. there's not much anyone could do with that team. then this year they've been besieged by injuries.
haynesworth...hahaha--i want this to happen only to see your head explode
here is you saying you'd like it to happen after he was cut by the pats. turd.
i cannot fathom that people in this thread still would take albert haynesworth.
and steve spagnulo with his 9-31 career record over andy reid.
absurd doesn't even to begin to describe these 2 things said. even more absurd than anything i've said and lord knows i've pressed the boundary of the absurd. haynesworth and spagnuolo :shock: :shock:
yes a 9-31 record over andy reid.... :oops:
who would you like? you said it would be time for him to go if they don't make the playoffs right?
like i said, if reid stays, i would love for spags to come back as d coordinator if he gets fired in st louis. he is a very respected coach in this league though, despite that bad record. there's not much anyone could do with that team. then this year they've been besieged by injuries.
haynesworth...hahaha--i want this to happen only to see your head explode
here is you saying you'd like it to happen after he was cut by the pats. turd.
"hahaha...only to see your head explode" followed by a laughing emoticon. that means it was a joke you dummy. you're even bad at this.
plus that quote also shows i'd be interested in spags a d coordinator, not as reid's replacement. thanks!
so are you done talking about wanting vince young to throw the ball 83% of the time?
"hahaha...only to see your head explode" followed by a laughing emoticon. that means it was a joke you dummy. you're even bad at this.
plus that quote also shows i'd be interested in spags a d coordinator, not as reid's replacement. thanks!
so are you done talking about wanting vince young to throw the ball 83% of the time?
are you done trying to convince me running the ball is still important despite the team having the greatest rushing season in franchise history and a 4-7 record to go along with it?
"hahaha...only to see your head explode" followed by a laughing emoticon. that means it was a joke you dummy. you're even bad at this.
plus that quote also shows i'd be interested in spags a d coordinator, not as reid's replacement. thanks!
so are you done talking about wanting vince young to throw the ball 83% of the time?
are you done trying to convince me running the ball is still important despite the team having the greatest rushing season in franchise history and a 4-7 record to go along with it?
so no? do you now agree that having vince young throw it 83% of the time is stupid?
why do you think their record is as bad as it is? clearly it must be because they have a great running back right? :thumbup:
"hahaha...only to see your head explode" followed by a laughing emoticon. that means it was a joke you dummy. you're even bad at this.
plus that quote also shows i'd be interested in spags a d coordinator, not as reid's replacement. thanks!
so are you done talking about wanting vince young to throw the ball 83% of the time?
are you done trying to convince me running the ball is still important despite the team having the greatest rushing season in franchise history and a 4-7 record to go along with it?
vince young? 83% passing with him? that works right?
why do you think their record is as bad as it is? it must be because they have a great running back right? :thumbup:
vince young throwing 83% of the time played no factor in the loss. 2 dropped touchdowns and a defense that couldn't stop arguably the greatest QB of all time is why they lost. the play calling played almost no role expect maybe the pass to celek on 4th and goal.
the rushing yards aren't the reason for the losing but they ain't helping with winning...because as i've mentioned many times running the football is only good for 1st downs not scoring.
the teams sucks because the defense sucks bad (worst i've ever seen with an eagles team...worse than the giants and rest as i've tried to explain but clearly you only understand stats) and the receivers have dropped way too many balls. those are the reasons for the record.
do you think the offensive play calling is the reason for the record?
are you done trying to convince me running the ball is still important despite the team having the greatest rushing season in franchise history and a 4-7 record to go along with it?
vince young? 83% passing with him? that works right?
why do you think their record is as bad as it is? it must be because they have a great running back right? :thumbup:
vince young throwing 83% of the time played no factor in the loss. 2 dropped touchdowns and a defense that couldn't stop arguably the greatest QB of all time is why they lost. the play calling played almost no role expect maybe the pass to celek on 4th and goal.
the rushing yards aren't the reason for the losing but they ain't helping with winning...because as i've mentioned many times running the football is only good for 1st downs not scoring.
the teams sucks because the defense sucks bad (worst i've ever seen with an eagles team...worse than the giants and rest as i've tried to explain but clearly you only understand stats) and the receivers have dropped way too many balls. those are the reasons for the record.
no factor? vince young completed just 50% of those passes. you think he blows. why would you want a qb, who you think blows, throwing it that many times? are good things more likely to happen or bad things? :roll: dropped passes happen (one of the bad things). that is one of the many variables that exist when you put the ball in the air. your boy djack has been dropping passes all year.
the giants and steelers defeated the patriots running the ball. they provided a blueprint of how to beat the patriots. the eagles best player is their running back. he was barely used on sunday. the eagles got out to an early lead. they stretched the defense with the deep ball. that makes a defense have to respect it, thus forcing them to not put 8 men in the box..thus creating opportunities on the ground like we've seen a lot this year.
"except maybe the pass to celek on 4th and goal." haha, ya think?
-yeah, it doesn't matter what you've said. what you've said is irrelevant when it comes to this sport. the eagles have 12 rushing td's and 14 passing td's.
i want to throw it 80% of the time. when you have the lead in the 4th quarter no i don't want to throw it that much
i agree with the pjhawks from a few months ago (at least the 2nd sentence). especially with mccoy leading the league with 7 yards per carry in the 4th quarter (i know, i know--more wild and crazy stats!).
if only andy reid had followed this philosophy in the 49ers game as opposed to the 1 carry he gave lesean mccoy with a 4th quarter lead...
or in the cardinals game as opposed to the 2 carries he gave lesean mccoy with a 4th quarter lead...
or in the bears game as opposed to the 2 carries he gave lesean mccoy with a 4th quarter lead...
maybe we'd be 7-4 at this point?
oh well. lots of reasons andy reid should be fired. this is just one of them. mainly because it's a problem he's had for over a decade now. amazing that this guy fails to learn from his mistakes. time for a change.
oh well. lots of reasons andy reid should be fired. this is just one of them. mainly because it's a problem he's had for over a decade now. amazing that this guy fails to learn from his mistakes. time for a change.
It really is amazing that someone can continue to argue the same thing over and over despite all evidence that he is wrong. Explains the Tea Party I guess.
Eagles did exactly as pjhawks would've wanted them to do Sunday - throw 83% of the time, give the ball the the league's best RB just 10 times, and got destroyed. Case. Closed.
Just... stick to college hoops, where you do know your stuff, even if you're irrational about one team.
Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; WF Center 10/21/13; WF Center 10/22/13; Baltimore 10/27/13; WF Center 4/28/16; WF Center 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22; Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; WF Center 9/7/24; WF Center 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
It really is amazing that someone can continue to argue the same thing over and over despite all evidence that he is wrong. Explains the Tea Party I guess.
Eagles did exactly as pjhawks would've wanted them to do Sunday - throw 83% of the time, give the ball the the league's best RB just 10 times, and got destroyed. Case. Closed.
Just... stick to college hoops, where you do know your stuff, even if you're irrational about one team.
My best friend and PJhawks could be related. I had a 20 minute convo with him today and he says pretty much what Hawks says. Though he thinks throwing that much is a bit nuts he loves Reid and blames Jackson. Although i strongly disagree with the fixer in the Phillies thread,he at least has an argument. Pjhawks to me is a guy who stated his belief. And now even he knows hes wrong he's to stubborn to admit it. He's like an attorney fighting for his guilty client. The words i was wrong are hard to admit sometimes,but making urself look clueless is much worse.
It really is amazing that someone can continue to argue the same thing over and over despite all evidence that he is wrong. Explains the Tea Party I guess.
Eagles did exactly as pjhawks would've wanted them to do Sunday - throw 83% of the time, give the ball the the league's best RB just 10 times, and got destroyed. Case. Closed.
Just... stick to college hoops, where you do know your stuff, even if you're irrational about one team.
mccoy might not play this week becasue of a toe injury. so maybe he was hurt on sunday. imagine that, the coaches knowing more than the fans
I had no problem with the call on 4th down. shady got stuffed on 3rd down. the 4th down call wasn't bad, but the execution was horrible.
Winston Moss from Gb is who i want as are new head coach. I remember hearing his interviews last year when he was a possible def cord candidate. If we only hired him last yr as are def cord we might not be having this convo. The dude has Passion and imo will be a good coach in the near future.
NFL Network analyst Mike Mayock concedes some trepidation about calling Thursday night's game between the Eagles and Seattle.
A Haverford School graduate and Newtown Square resident, Mayock said he is a little bit nervous about how to explain the current situation in Philadelphia to a national audience.
"I'm excited about doing a hometown game," he told Sports Illustrated's Peter King during a podcast this week. "I'd be lying if I said I wasn't. A part of me feels a little nervous about how to conveny what's going in Philadelphia and what the fair thing is and what's going to happen here next year and all those things. There is a lot more than meets the eye and I think it has to be handled with respect."
As for next year, though, Mayock is among those who think Andy Reid deserves to keep his job and return for another season.
"Philadelphia is a passionate city. I grew up here in West Philadelphia and I can say that. I understand it. It's Super Bowl win or bust. That's the attitude and I get it.
"What I try to tell people all the time is, there are 27 or 28 other NFL citieis that would give anything to have had the record Andy Reid has had the last 12 years. It seems like every year, he's in the final 4 or the final 6. The analogy I use is if you had 32 salesmen in the company and you have on guy who's a star but not a superstar and every year he finishes in the top 3, 4,5, are you going to fire him or pat him on the back and tell him to keep working hard and trying to get him to No. 1 ... They've got 5 games left, and think you find out a lot about people in these last five weeks. There are going to be some people that bail and there are going to be some peope that have just signed contracts and are new to town and don't really care and are gonig look around and say the grass is greener. We are going to find out a lot about exactly who cares and who doesn't in this organization over the next five games.
"I think Andy Reid deserves a second go-round ... May there be some changes in that staff? Maybe. At the end of the day, I think this guy deserves the opportunity to work it out moving forward."
As for King's view, "I've always thought if the players are still listening to you, if you're runnig a controlled ship, you're fine. You can withstand a real bad year, which is what they're going through this year. If you start having coaches arguing on the sidelines and have to bench your star receiver because you sense he's maybe not trying or giving it 100 percent, now my thought is a little bit difrerent and a little bit more open-minded.
"All along, I've said the Eagles could go 2-14 and I wouldn't fire Andy Reid. I think he's too good a coach and he's done too much. Bill Cowher in Year 13 was 6-10 ... and two years later he's holding the Super Bowl trophy. I'm not saying that will happen with the Eagles. I don't know what's going to happen. ... I think Reid deserves an absolute rotten year."
Winston Moss from Gb is who i want as are new head coach. I remember hearing his interviews last year when he was a possible def cord candidate. If we only hired him last yr as are def cord we might not be having this convo. The dude has Passion and imo will be a good coach in the near future.
he'll probably get some interest. dave toub is an interesting name if they opt for the more obscure assistant they did with the current coach. i still have a feeling they win a couple of these meaningless games and bring him back. we'll see.
remember i brought up the awful defensive drafting over the last 10 years or so? here's an article that will make you want to throw up:
Ten games into the 1999 season, Eagles head coach Andy Reid benched weak-side linebacker James Darling and replaced him with rookie Barry Gardner.
The flood gates were open, never to close. He hasn’t stopped benching linebackers since.
Darling gave way to Gardner. Mike Caldwell gave way to Gardner. Nate Wayne gave way to Mark Simoneau, who gave way to Jeremiah Trotter. Matt McCoy gave way to Shawn Barber, who gave way to Omar Gaither, who gave way to Stewart Bradley.
Nothing rivals 2009, when Gaither gave way to Trotter, who gave way to Will Witherspoon, who gave way to Chris Gocong, who gave way to Joe Mays, who gave way to Trotter, who gave way to Akeem Jordan, who gave way to Trotter, who gave way to Jordan. Who gave way to Witherspoon.
Unless it was earlier this year, when -- in one fell swoop -- Moise Fokou gave way to Casey Matthews, who gave way to Jamar Chaney, who gave way to Fokou.
“I’ve done it a few times before,” Reid said sheepishly when asked about that triple Week 3 shuffle.
In the past eight weeks, Reid has made five linebacker switches. The Eagles have already used three different weak-side linebackers, two middle linebackers and three strong-side linebackers.
In nine games.
Typical year.
Consider the plight of Chaney, a seventh-round pick last year.
He became a starter at middle linebacker late last year, spent the preseason and first two regular-season games at strong-side, then moved back to the middle in Week 3.
“It’s always tough when you keep switching,” Chaney said. “It’s like the defensive line. They get comfortable playing with the same guys and they learn how to play together and they know what each other is capable of. If you have that stability, you know what the guy next to you is thinking and what each other is going to do, and you can feed off it.”
But the linebackers have never gotten that opportunity. At least not in a decade.
And the last few years, the linebacker chaos has gotten worse than ever. Since opening day 2009, the Eagles have used 17 different starting linebacker combinations in 43 games. So each group has played an average of 2 1/2 games together before being torn apart.
The current group -- Chaney in the middle, with Brian Rolle at weak-side and Akeem Jordan at strong-side -- is the 47th different starting group Reid has used since he got here in 1999.
The last time the Eagles went through an entire season without a change at linebacker was 2001, when Caldwell -- now the Eagles’ linebackers coach -- started alongside Trotter and Carlos Emmons.
In all, Reid and defensive coordinators Jim Johnson, Sean McDermott and Juan Castillo have used 18 weak-side backers, 14 middle linebackers and nine on the strong-side.
The knock on the Eagles is that they don’t care about the linebacker position. Not true.
Since 1999, they’ve drafted three linebackers in the first two rounds. But league-wide, 96 linebackers have been taken in the first two rounds since 1999, which comes out to exactly three per team. So they’re average.
And they’ve given big contracts to linebackers. Dhani Jones got $13.5 million over five years. Nate Wayne got $13 million over four years.
And they’ve gone out and traded for linebackers like Witherspoon and Ernie Sims.
So it’s not like they haven’t tried. They just haven’t found the right guys.
The last linebacker the Eagles acquired who went to a Pro Bowl was 1998 Ray Rhodes draft pick Jeremiah Trotter. The last outside linebacker they acquired who went to a Pro Bowl was William Thomas, drafted 20 years ago by Rich Kotite.
Reid has drafted 16 linebackers since 1999. Nine have started at least one game, six of those nine were benched at least once, and only one -- the oft-benched Gaither -- was still an Eagle four years after getting drafted.
Quintin Caver. Barry Gardner. Matt McCoy. These aren’t linebackers, they’re punchlines.
When the 3-6 Eagles face the 6-3 Giants at the Meadowlands Sunday night, Chaney will make his 12th NFL start. But he’s already been a part of five different linebacker formations.
How can the Eagles’ linebackers ever become a solid group if they never have a chance to play together?
“During the year, you want to try to keep the same three guys out there, the same two guys out there (in nickel),” Chaney said. “You don’t want to keep switching around. That’s how most teams are. You might have to switch between seasons, because you have free agency or trades and all that stuff, but you want to keep the same guys together, unless somebody gets hurt and you have to change.”
When the Eagles opened this season, rookie Matthews was in the middle, with Chaney on the strong side and Fokou at weak. After two games, Chaney moved back into the middle, with Matthews on the weak side and Fokou at strong. One week after that, Rolle became a starter at WIL. And the last week, Jordan re-entered the lineup at SAM.
As if that’s not enough change, second-year pro Keenan Clayton this week will debut in the nickel, in place of Rolle.
No stability. No consistency. No cohesiveness.
“We’re all used to it,” said Jordan, the dean of current Eagles linebackers with 21 career starts. “The thing is, you can put any three of us out there and we’ll get the job done or try our best to get the job done.”
But if the coaches would just pick three guys and let them play together for more than a few games, maybe at some point they would become a strong linebacking crew?
Maybe?
“We’re a young linebacking corps,” Chaney said. “Most linebackers don’t start out being the best linebackers in the league. They don’t start out going to the Pro Bowl their first or second year. You have young players who are going to keep getting better and get to the point where we are one of the best linebacking corps in the league.
“If you look at it on film, there aren’t too many linebackers where you just say, ‘OK, they’re better than us.’ True linebackers? Not like DeMarcus Ware, who’s really a defensive end. There aren’t too many linebackers that weekly match up with receivers, take on blocks the way we take on blocks, play the way we’re asked to play.”
Can this group succeed where the 46 before it have failed?
Chaney this year has joined Bradley and Gaither as the third linebacker Reid has drafted to record a sack and an interception in the same season. Rolle forced a fumble and returned it for a TD. Jordan has been very good on special teams and maybe he can duplicate that on defense.
One area this group isn’t lacking is confidence. They know what the fans think, they know what’s been written, and they’re determined to prove to everyone they’re not the weak link on this team.
“We’ve kind of already honed in on it that whatever happens, it’s always the linebackers’ fault, (we’re) going to be the first ones that the finger is pointed at, whether it’s the pass or the run, whatever it is, we know the first finger is going to be pointed at us,” Clayton said.
“So we’ve jelled together and made each other mentally tough to just block that out. Let it go in one ear and out the other.”
Chaney, who has emerged as a real leader on the defense, said once the defense as a group plays better, the linebackers will be seen in a more positive light.
It’s just a matter of time.
And keeping three guys together for more than a few days.
“The main focus is always on the linebackers because we’re asked to do a whole lot,” Chaney said. “That’s not a problem, it’s just that everybody as a whole has to jell together.
“From the outside, everybody wants to point fingers at us, and and I think that bonds us together even more. We know if anything goes wrong, it’s going to be on us.
“But when we jell together, you won’t hear anything about the linebackers. When we’re doing good, you won’t hear anything about the linebackers.”
Comments
still didn't answer the question.
come on dude no way going into the game was there any scenario where we weren't giving up at least 3 or 4 touchdowns to brady no matter how long he had the ball.
pretty sure i answered the question dude.
might want to check how the giants and steelers beat them a few weeks ago too.
i'm sensing if you were coaching you'd have forfeited.
i didn't see where you said you thought the eagles could or couldn't have scored 28+ points against the pats running the ball the majority of the time. that was the question i wanted answered because in no scenario did i see the eagles holding them below in the 20s at best. and if our receivers includig mccoy hadn't dropped some of those balls the game would have been within reach for us.
why do you spend so much time talking about something you know so little about? seriously man. i'm not even trying to give you a hard time here. i'm really not. i feel bad but it's just obvious you don't understand this stuff...
look, you seem like you were scared to death that the patriots were going to put up a ton of points headed into the game. your quarterback is out with an injury. one of your starting receivers was out too. why on earth would you want to try to outscore him with vince young of all quarterbacks? according to you he "blows."
why not put in the hands of your best player? the leading rusher in the nfl? why not follow the same formula that worked for the steelers and giants just a few weeks earlier? the same formula that held the patriots to 17 points and 20 points respectively? (obviously you were not aware of those games).
play to your strengths. there was no way the eagles were going to beat the patriots with vince young dropping back to pass 83% of the time.
how many points do you think the eagles coud have scored running the ball the majority of the time this past sunday? answer the damn question. and tell me if you think that would have been enough to win.
and i know you can't win if you don't score and you aren't scoring running the ball a majority of the time. since you won't say how many points you think they could have scored running the ball (and just shrug off that the pats secondary sucks and had a wide receiver playing back there) i can only guess you think not too many.
point's win games, not rushing yards. as has been proven this year.
points win games. that is insightful. you gonna score a ton of points with vince young throwing 54 times huh?
the steelers beat them 25-17. the giants beat them 24-20. both of these teams utilized a ball control offense that was designed to keep the ball away from this high powered pat's offense. giants ran it 26 times. steelers ran it 21 times. both those teams had their starting qb and reciever playing. and both teams don't have a running back nearly good as the one andy and marty gave it to just 10 times.
1st off those two teams defenses are much better than ours. do you forget our defense sucks? and there is no way we were scoring 24 or 25 points running the ball the majority of the time.
now this week i can see your argument for running the ball because you shouldn't need a high scoring game to beat the seahawks.
Ps: they did put up 20 and if their stud receiver hadn't dropped 2 sure TDs well i don't think i have to do the math for you.
and the giants defense is much better than the eagles?
the giants defense is awful. just awful. they are 26th against the pass. they are 24th against the rush. and 27th in points allowed!
please stop talking about this sport. it's embarrassing. and i'm embarrassed for you.
final comment - we scored 20 and our stud receiver dropped 2 sure touchdowns. should have had at least 34 points. again offensive game plan wasn't the issue.
ps: and giants faced a great passing team last night...
i don't think it's possible for you to know less of what you're talking about. you cannot even properly respond to me.
THIS is the kind fan who supports andy reid. THIS guy.
i didn't say the giants defense was good i said it was better than ours. i don't care about the stats - it's not fantasy football . stats don't mean shit. the eagles defense has blown 5 leads in the 4th quarter - no one is as bad as that. they can't make plays to win games and can't ever get a big stop. that is the epitome of a bad bad defense. so don't give me stats and try and tell me the eagles defnese is better than the giants or even the pats who stats suck too. nope juggler sorry dude ain't buying what you are selling there.
and you wanted albert haynesworth not once but twice this year so you aren't hitting the ball out of the park yourself :roll: :roll:
specifically, though, since this isn't "fantasy football" what do you like about the giants defense? what about them makes them so much better than the eagles defense? are you able to backup what you said? or can you only list reasons why the eagles defense stinks?
face it, you don't know anything about any other team in the league other than the eagles...and you barely know about them. you make that more and more obvious with each post in here.
they haven't blown 5 4th quarters leads, despite now starting an undrafted rookie from of all places conestoga they compete, their d-line is still better than the eagles, and their dbacks aren't complete pussies and dogs like ours. would you really take the eagles defense over the giants? seriously if you've really watched this eagles defense you know they have no leadership and are soft as can be. it's not all about stats. intangibles matter. and this team defensively has nothing to offer.
part 2 - you also are on board with bringing in spags over reid with his stellar 3-year record currently at an outstanding 10-33 :roll: :roll: :roll:
and, no, i didn't want haynesworth back twice (fixer) nor did i want steve spagnoula to replace andy reid (jammin).
listen, man, you already lost this argument. there's no need to further hammer that point home by bringing up stuff that has nothing to do with you thinking you can outscore tom brady by having a quarterback who you think "blows" throw the ball 83% of the time, while hardly using the best player on the team.
they did score a garbage touchdown with a few seconds left to play though! yes!
here is you saying you'd like it to happen after he was cut by the pats. turd.
"hahaha...only to see your head explode" followed by a laughing emoticon. that means it was a joke you dummy. you're even bad at this.
plus that quote also shows i'd be interested in spags a d coordinator, not as reid's replacement. thanks!
so are you done talking about wanting vince young to throw the ball 83% of the time?
are you done trying to convince me running the ball is still important despite the team having the greatest rushing season in franchise history and a 4-7 record to go along with it?
so no? do you now agree that having vince young throw it 83% of the time is stupid?
why do you think their record is as bad as it is? clearly it must be because they have a great running back right? :thumbup:
vince young throwing 83% of the time played no factor in the loss. 2 dropped touchdowns and a defense that couldn't stop arguably the greatest QB of all time is why they lost. the play calling played almost no role expect maybe the pass to celek on 4th and goal.
the rushing yards aren't the reason for the losing but they ain't helping with winning...because as i've mentioned many times running the football is only good for 1st downs not scoring.
the teams sucks because the defense sucks bad (worst i've ever seen with an eagles team...worse than the giants and rest as i've tried to explain but clearly you only understand stats) and the receivers have dropped way too many balls. those are the reasons for the record.
do you think the offensive play calling is the reason for the record?
no factor? vince young completed just 50% of those passes. you think he blows. why would you want a qb, who you think blows, throwing it that many times? are good things more likely to happen or bad things? :roll: dropped passes happen (one of the bad things). that is one of the many variables that exist when you put the ball in the air. your boy djack has been dropping passes all year.
the giants and steelers defeated the patriots running the ball. they provided a blueprint of how to beat the patriots. the eagles best player is their running back. he was barely used on sunday. the eagles got out to an early lead. they stretched the defense with the deep ball. that makes a defense have to respect it, thus forcing them to not put 8 men in the box..thus creating opportunities on the ground like we've seen a lot this year.
"except maybe the pass to celek on 4th and goal." haha, ya think?
-yeah, it doesn't matter what you've said. what you've said is irrelevant when it comes to this sport. the eagles have 12 rushing td's and 14 passing td's.
i agree with the pjhawks from a few months ago (at least the 2nd sentence). especially with mccoy leading the league with 7 yards per carry in the 4th quarter (i know, i know--more wild and crazy stats!).
if only andy reid had followed this philosophy in the 49ers game as opposed to the 1 carry he gave lesean mccoy with a 4th quarter lead...
or in the cardinals game as opposed to the 2 carries he gave lesean mccoy with a 4th quarter lead...
or in the bears game as opposed to the 2 carries he gave lesean mccoy with a 4th quarter lead...
maybe we'd be 7-4 at this point?
oh well. lots of reasons andy reid should be fired. this is just one of them. mainly because it's a problem he's had for over a decade now. amazing that this guy fails to learn from his mistakes. time for a change.
Nah, I think he's a good guy. Let em stay!
Eagles did exactly as pjhawks would've wanted them to do Sunday - throw 83% of the time, give the ball the the league's best RB just 10 times, and got destroyed. Case. Closed.
Just... stick to college hoops, where you do know your stuff, even if you're irrational about one team.
WF Center 4/28/16; WF Center 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22;
Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; WF Center 9/7/24; WF Center 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24
Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
mccoy might not play this week becasue of a toe injury. so maybe he was hurt on sunday. imagine that, the coaches knowing more than the fans
I had no problem with the call on 4th down. shady got stuffed on 3rd down. the 4th down call wasn't bad, but the execution was horrible.
love this...
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... aying-put/
Nice. I agree with the premise of that article.
I really think reid is going to step down after the year. He looks spent.
I think the fans will get what they want. Then we will see what happens. I think they should be careful what they wish for
A Haverford School graduate and Newtown Square resident, Mayock said he is a little bit nervous about how to explain the current situation in Philadelphia to a national audience.
"I'm excited about doing a hometown game," he told Sports Illustrated's Peter King during a podcast this week. "I'd be lying if I said I wasn't. A part of me feels a little nervous about how to conveny what's going in Philadelphia and what the fair thing is and what's going to happen here next year and all those things. There is a lot more than meets the eye and I think it has to be handled with respect."
As for next year, though, Mayock is among those who think Andy Reid deserves to keep his job and return for another season.
"Philadelphia is a passionate city. I grew up here in West Philadelphia and I can say that. I understand it. It's Super Bowl win or bust. That's the attitude and I get it.
"What I try to tell people all the time is, there are 27 or 28 other NFL citieis that would give anything to have had the record Andy Reid has had the last 12 years. It seems like every year, he's in the final 4 or the final 6. The analogy I use is if you had 32 salesmen in the company and you have on guy who's a star but not a superstar and every year he finishes in the top 3, 4,5, are you going to fire him or pat him on the back and tell him to keep working hard and trying to get him to No. 1 ... They've got 5 games left, and think you find out a lot about people in these last five weeks. There are going to be some people that bail and there are going to be some peope that have just signed contracts and are new to town and don't really care and are gonig look around and say the grass is greener. We are going to find out a lot about exactly who cares and who doesn't in this organization over the next five games.
"I think Andy Reid deserves a second go-round ... May there be some changes in that staff? Maybe. At the end of the day, I think this guy deserves the opportunity to work it out moving forward."
As for King's view, "I've always thought if the players are still listening to you, if you're runnig a controlled ship, you're fine. You can withstand a real bad year, which is what they're going through this year. If you start having coaches arguing on the sidelines and have to bench your star receiver because you sense he's maybe not trying or giving it 100 percent, now my thought is a little bit difrerent and a little bit more open-minded.
"All along, I've said the Eagles could go 2-14 and I wouldn't fire Andy Reid. I think he's too good a coach and he's done too much. Bill Cowher in Year 13 was 6-10 ... and two years later he's holding the Super Bowl trophy. I'm not saying that will happen with the Eagles. I don't know what's going to happen. ... I think Reid deserves an absolute rotten year."
he'll probably get some interest. dave toub is an interesting name if they opt for the more obscure assistant they did with the current coach. i still have a feeling they win a couple of these meaningless games and bring him back. we'll see.
remember i brought up the awful defensive drafting over the last 10 years or so? here's an article that will make you want to throw up:
http://www.csnphilly.com/football-phila ... feedID=704
13 years of linebacker chaos for the Birds
Ten games into the 1999 season, Eagles head coach Andy Reid benched weak-side linebacker James Darling and replaced him with rookie Barry Gardner.
The flood gates were open, never to close. He hasn’t stopped benching linebackers since.
Darling gave way to Gardner. Mike Caldwell gave way to Gardner. Nate Wayne gave way to Mark Simoneau, who gave way to Jeremiah Trotter. Matt McCoy gave way to Shawn Barber, who gave way to Omar Gaither, who gave way to Stewart Bradley.
Nothing rivals 2009, when Gaither gave way to Trotter, who gave way to Will Witherspoon, who gave way to Chris Gocong, who gave way to Joe Mays, who gave way to Trotter, who gave way to Akeem Jordan, who gave way to Trotter, who gave way to Jordan. Who gave way to Witherspoon.
Unless it was earlier this year, when -- in one fell swoop -- Moise Fokou gave way to Casey Matthews, who gave way to Jamar Chaney, who gave way to Fokou.
“I’ve done it a few times before,” Reid said sheepishly when asked about that triple Week 3 shuffle.
In the past eight weeks, Reid has made five linebacker switches. The Eagles have already used three different weak-side linebackers, two middle linebackers and three strong-side linebackers.
In nine games.
Typical year.
Consider the plight of Chaney, a seventh-round pick last year.
He became a starter at middle linebacker late last year, spent the preseason and first two regular-season games at strong-side, then moved back to the middle in Week 3.
“It’s always tough when you keep switching,” Chaney said. “It’s like the defensive line. They get comfortable playing with the same guys and they learn how to play together and they know what each other is capable of. If you have that stability, you know what the guy next to you is thinking and what each other is going to do, and you can feed off it.”
But the linebackers have never gotten that opportunity. At least not in a decade.
And the last few years, the linebacker chaos has gotten worse than ever. Since opening day 2009, the Eagles have used 17 different starting linebacker combinations in 43 games. So each group has played an average of 2 1/2 games together before being torn apart.
The current group -- Chaney in the middle, with Brian Rolle at weak-side and Akeem Jordan at strong-side -- is the 47th different starting group Reid has used since he got here in 1999.
The last time the Eagles went through an entire season without a change at linebacker was 2001, when Caldwell -- now the Eagles’ linebackers coach -- started alongside Trotter and Carlos Emmons.
In all, Reid and defensive coordinators Jim Johnson, Sean McDermott and Juan Castillo have used 18 weak-side backers, 14 middle linebackers and nine on the strong-side.
The knock on the Eagles is that they don’t care about the linebacker position. Not true.
Since 1999, they’ve drafted three linebackers in the first two rounds. But league-wide, 96 linebackers have been taken in the first two rounds since 1999, which comes out to exactly three per team. So they’re average.
And they’ve given big contracts to linebackers. Dhani Jones got $13.5 million over five years. Nate Wayne got $13 million over four years.
And they’ve gone out and traded for linebackers like Witherspoon and Ernie Sims.
So it’s not like they haven’t tried. They just haven’t found the right guys.
The last linebacker the Eagles acquired who went to a Pro Bowl was 1998 Ray Rhodes draft pick Jeremiah Trotter. The last outside linebacker they acquired who went to a Pro Bowl was William Thomas, drafted 20 years ago by Rich Kotite.
Reid has drafted 16 linebackers since 1999. Nine have started at least one game, six of those nine were benched at least once, and only one -- the oft-benched Gaither -- was still an Eagle four years after getting drafted.
Quintin Caver. Barry Gardner. Matt McCoy. These aren’t linebackers, they’re punchlines.
When the 3-6 Eagles face the 6-3 Giants at the Meadowlands Sunday night, Chaney will make his 12th NFL start. But he’s already been a part of five different linebacker formations.
How can the Eagles’ linebackers ever become a solid group if they never have a chance to play together?
“During the year, you want to try to keep the same three guys out there, the same two guys out there (in nickel),” Chaney said. “You don’t want to keep switching around. That’s how most teams are. You might have to switch between seasons, because you have free agency or trades and all that stuff, but you want to keep the same guys together, unless somebody gets hurt and you have to change.”
When the Eagles opened this season, rookie Matthews was in the middle, with Chaney on the strong side and Fokou at weak. After two games, Chaney moved back into the middle, with Matthews on the weak side and Fokou at strong. One week after that, Rolle became a starter at WIL. And the last week, Jordan re-entered the lineup at SAM.
As if that’s not enough change, second-year pro Keenan Clayton this week will debut in the nickel, in place of Rolle.
No stability. No consistency. No cohesiveness.
“We’re all used to it,” said Jordan, the dean of current Eagles linebackers with 21 career starts. “The thing is, you can put any three of us out there and we’ll get the job done or try our best to get the job done.”
But if the coaches would just pick three guys and let them play together for more than a few games, maybe at some point they would become a strong linebacking crew?
Maybe?
“We’re a young linebacking corps,” Chaney said. “Most linebackers don’t start out being the best linebackers in the league. They don’t start out going to the Pro Bowl their first or second year. You have young players who are going to keep getting better and get to the point where we are one of the best linebacking corps in the league.
“If you look at it on film, there aren’t too many linebackers where you just say, ‘OK, they’re better than us.’ True linebackers? Not like DeMarcus Ware, who’s really a defensive end. There aren’t too many linebackers that weekly match up with receivers, take on blocks the way we take on blocks, play the way we’re asked to play.”
Can this group succeed where the 46 before it have failed?
Chaney this year has joined Bradley and Gaither as the third linebacker Reid has drafted to record a sack and an interception in the same season. Rolle forced a fumble and returned it for a TD. Jordan has been very good on special teams and maybe he can duplicate that on defense.
One area this group isn’t lacking is confidence. They know what the fans think, they know what’s been written, and they’re determined to prove to everyone they’re not the weak link on this team.
“We’ve kind of already honed in on it that whatever happens, it’s always the linebackers’ fault, (we’re) going to be the first ones that the finger is pointed at, whether it’s the pass or the run, whatever it is, we know the first finger is going to be pointed at us,” Clayton said.
“So we’ve jelled together and made each other mentally tough to just block that out. Let it go in one ear and out the other.”
Chaney, who has emerged as a real leader on the defense, said once the defense as a group plays better, the linebackers will be seen in a more positive light.
It’s just a matter of time.
And keeping three guys together for more than a few days.
“The main focus is always on the linebackers because we’re asked to do a whole lot,” Chaney said. “That’s not a problem, it’s just that everybody as a whole has to jell together.
“From the outside, everybody wants to point fingers at us, and and I think that bonds us together even more. We know if anything goes wrong, it’s going to be on us.
“But when we jell together, you won’t hear anything about the linebackers. When we’re doing good, you won’t hear anything about the linebackers.”
disgusting.