Something else to consider... which is often ignored... is the Republicans had both houses from 1994 to 2006. Remember the Newt Gingrich 'Contract With America'? The Gingrich/Tom Delay years cover a period that has spanned the September 11th Attacks, both Wars and the failure to regulate the home mortgage and banking/financial institution metldowns.
I just cannot see one minority Congressman out of 535 Senators and Congressmen being responsible for everything. Someone needs to explain that to me becuase i just don't understand how that works.
you can pretty much stand in the senate, close your eyes, point and say 'that fucker had some part in it!' and be correct.
it's not some gay democrat who can be a dick to those he disagrees with, it's not all Bush's or Obama's or Clinton's....it's there's all but zero accountability unless some crime is committed and even then they get away with it a lot of times. they are ineffectual at anything but running their mouths and pointing at the other side, oh and finding ways to waste our tax money and give it to their friends and campaign investors...Delay and his remapping districts and all the other things...it's sad how many of our elected representatives should be in jail
i remember the contract with america ugh :?
i was waiting somewhere and they had fox's satellite radio station on and it was feb or march last year, so Obama was in office at the most not even 3 full months and they were going on and on about Obama and the deficit and your kids will owe this much of it and blah blah blah did they forget when Clinton left office we had a surplus and then someone in between Clinton and Obama took us to a record deficit?? really??? they kept throwing Barney Frank's name around, too, and Pelosi....
if only people were more interested in understanding the other side instead of proving them wrong and putting them down
I can understand people placing blame elsewhere but are we not allowed to disagree with the way they are trying to fix it? Mainly by making it worse.
Something else to consider... which is often ignored... is the Republicans had both houses from 1994 to 2006. Remember the Newt Gingrich 'Contract With America'? The Gingrich/Tom Delay years cover a period that has spanned the September 11th Attacks, both Wars and the failure to regulate the home mortgage and banking/financial institution metldowns.
I just cannot see one minority Congressman out of 535 Senators and Congressmen being responsible for everything. Someone needs to explain that to me becuase i just don't understand how that works.
you can pretty much stand in the senate, close your eyes, point and say 'that fucker had some part in it!' and be correct.
it's not some gay democrat who can be a dick to those he disagrees with, it's not all Bush's or Obama's or Clinton's....it's there's all but zero accountability unless some crime is committed and even then they get away with it a lot of times. they are ineffectual at anything but running their mouths and pointing at the other side, oh and finding ways to waste our tax money and give it to their friends and campaign investors...Delay and his remapping districts and all the other things...it's sad how many of our elected representatives should be in jail
i remember the contract with america ugh :?
i was waiting somewhere and they had fox's satellite radio station on and it was feb or march last year, so Obama was in office at the most not even 3 full months and they were going on and on about Obama and the deficit and your kids will owe this much of it and blah blah blah did they forget when Clinton left office we had a surplus and then someone in between Clinton and Obama took us to a record deficit?? really??? they kept throwing Barney Frank's name around, too, and Pelosi....
if only people were more interested in understanding the other side instead of proving them wrong and putting them down
I can understand people placing blame elsewhere but are we not allowed to disagree with the way they are trying to fix it? Mainly by making it worse.
certainly
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
I can understand people placing blame elsewhere but are we not allowed to disagree with the way they are trying to fix it? Mainly by making it worse.
As a loyal, patriotic American, you are not only allowed to disagree, you are REQUIRED to.
However, there's a difference between expressing disagreement in the context of a reasoned debate, and what we're currently seeing from the teabagging crowd and the corporate sponsored astroturf movements.
What we've been lacking in this country for the last few years is a loyal opposition - people who would express disagreement, dismay, and even outright anger - at current policies, but once ideas are heard and debated, would eventually come together with everyone so that the country moves forward.
As liberal as I am, I mourned the passing of such conservative stalwarts as William F. Buckley Jr, and BIll Safire. While I disagreed with them on matters of policy, their sharp intellects, reasoned arguments and willingness to debate properly made them figures I also admired.
Note that Buckley, for instance, pretty much ordered the expulsion of the radical John Birch Society from the ranks of the Republican party and the mainstream conservative movement, recognizing that their fringe views and radical methods would muddy debate and pull the country backwards.
I'm glad he's not alive to see them return to polite circles in the conservative movement - they're sponsoring the next Conservative Political Action Conference, for instance. :evil:
"It's not hard to own something. Or everything. You just have to know that it's yours, and then be willing to let it go." - Neil Gaiman, "Stardust"
I can understand people placing blame elsewhere but are we not allowed to disagree with the way they are trying to fix it? Mainly by making it worse.
As a loyal, patriotic American, you are not only allowed to disagree, you are REQUIRED to.
However, there's a difference between expressing disagreement in the context of a reasoned debate, and what we're currently seeing from the teabagging crowd and the corporate sponsored astroturf movements.
What we've been lacking in this country for the last few years is a loyal opposition - people who would express disagreement, dismay, and even outright anger - at current policies, but once ideas are heard and debated, would eventually come together with everyone so that the country moves forward.
As liberal as I am, I mourned the passing of such conservative stalwarts as William F. Buckley Jr, and BIll Safire. While I disagreed with them on matters of policy, their sharp intellects, reasoned arguments and willingness to debate properly made them figures I also admired.
Note that Buckley, for instance, pretty much ordered the expulsion of the radical John Birch Society from the ranks of the Republican party and the mainstream conservative movement, recognizing that their fringe views and radical methods would muddy debate and pull the country backwards.
I'm glad he's not alive to see them return to polite circles in the conservative movement - they're sponsoring the next Conservative Political Action Conference, for instance. :evil:
I think the problem there is that republicans do not feel heard. Therefore leading to tea parties and anger.
I know this isn't the place for this question but i've been trying to update my profile by changing my name and adding a picture etc.... Is it not working or am I missing something.
I think the problem there is that republicans do not feel heard. Therefore leading to tea parties and anger.
I completely, totally agree. The tea party movement is symptomatic of something much deeper among the people. They've seen their homes lost to foreclosure, their jobs and health care gone, the big banks who screwed over our economy getting bailed out, the endless array of DC insiders getting rich by lobbying and taking bribes, and they get the feeling they're being left out to dry by the very people who they had depended on to keep things going smoothly.
Is it any wonder they're angry, afraid and frustrated?
"It's not hard to own something. Or everything. You just have to know that it's yours, and then be willing to let it go." - Neil Gaiman, "Stardust"
I can understand people placing blame elsewhere but are we not allowed to disagree with the way they are trying to fix it? Mainly by making it worse.
As a loyal, patriotic American, you are not only allowed to disagree, you are REQUIRED to.
However, there's a difference between expressing disagreement in the context of a reasoned debate, and what we're currently seeing from the teabagging crowd and the corporate sponsored astroturf movements.
What we've been lacking in this country for the last few years is a loyal opposition - people who would express disagreement, dismay, and even outright anger - at current policies, but once ideas are heard and debated, would eventually come together with everyone so that the country moves forward.
As liberal as I am, I mourned the passing of such conservative stalwarts as William F. Buckley Jr, and BIll Safire. While I disagreed with them on matters of policy, their sharp intellects, reasoned arguments and willingness to debate properly made them figures I also admired.
Note that Buckley, for instance, pretty much ordered the expulsion of the radical John Birch Society from the ranks of the Republican party and the mainstream conservative movement, recognizing that their fringe views and radical methods would muddy debate and pull the country backwards.
I'm glad he's not alive to see them return to polite circles in the conservative movement - they're sponsoring the next Conservative Political Action Conference, for instance. :evil:
First off it’s Tea Party not teabaggers. Can you tell me what is so wrong with what the Tea Party is doing? In one sentence you say it’s okay to disagree, but them you put people down for disagreeing. An then you go and quote Nancy P. who is full of shit and self serving with that astroturf comment. The million and a half people that showed up for the March in Washington on 9/12 were not sponsored by anyone, they all paid there own way there,there own lodging, there own food. You need to do some research about the Tea Party before you just start quoting politicians that don’t give two cents about the average American. You need to open your eyes and see that 99% of the people in Washington, democrats and republicans alike are the ones that are corporate sponsored.
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
i am fairly certain that there were no 1.5 million people there on 9/12...i have seen no source to say estimates were that high. that is like saying a billion showed up at the million man march when we all know there was no million people there...
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
0
g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
I know this isn't the place for this question but i've been trying to update my profile by changing my name and adding a picture etc.... Is it not working or am I missing something.
Try that :?: :?: in the Technical Stuff and Help you may not get an answer here.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
i am fairly certain that there were no 1.5 million people there on 9/12...i have seen no source to say estimates were that high. that is like saying a billion showed up at the million man march when we all know there was no million people there...
Apples and oranges sweetie....I was there
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
I made fun of liberals here and was contacted by the mods to stop it. Why is it people can continually refer to people protesting taxes and government waste as "teabaggers"?
I guess I'm a teabagger too. So be it.
0
g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
i am fairly certain that there were no 1.5 million people there on 9/12...i have seen no source to say estimates were that high. that is like saying a billion showed up at the million man march when we all know there was no million people there...
Apples and oranges sweetie....I was there
I was there too, even marched along with the protestors and in no way were there 1. 5 or even close to A million people. What does it matter anyway people are going to inflate their numbers just to escalate their agenda, especially a start up one.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
i am fairly certain that there were no 1.5 million people there on 9/12...i have seen no source to say estimates were that high. that is like saying a billion showed up at the million man march when we all know there was no million people there...
Apples and oranges sweetie....I was there
no its not apples and oranges. my question was do you have a reputable source?? as usual you did not answer me. i was just saying it is easy to inflate numbers for dramatic effect which is what fox did with splicing footage from multiple events together a few months ago...
so i am to believe you counted 1.5 million people...ok...
i could not even estimate what 70,000 looks like, which is about what it was when i saw U2, let alone 1.5 million...
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
First off it’s Tea Party not teabaggers (1). Can you tell me what is so wrong with what the Tea Party is doing? In one sentence you say it’s okay to disagree, but them you put people down for disagreeing(2). An then you go and quote Nancy P. who is full of shit and self serving with that astroturf comment(3). The million and a half people that showed up for the March in Washington on 9/12 were not sponsored by anyone, they all paid there own way there,there own lodging, there own food(4). You need to do some research about the Tea Party before you just start quoting politicians that don’t give two cents about the average American. (5). You need to open your eyes and see that 99% of the people in Washington, democrats and republicans alike are the ones that are corporate sponsored.(6)
Sorry, but you're quite wrong in several instances:
1. I reserve the term Tea Party for the event in Boston that helped pave the way for the American Revolutionary War...not to mention there's even infighting among the various groups as to who exactly owns the term "Tea Party". Besides, the term "teabagger" was their own creation.
2. Let's see.. how about shouting down elected representatives, disrupting town hall meetings, even going so far as to taunt and insult a disabled woman who wanted to speak on health care? Propagating outright lies like "death panels" and putting out images of Dachau at rallies? Yeah, that's productive. :roll:
3. Nancy P had nothing to do with "astroturf". The term "astroturf" refers to fake grassroots movements. Fake groups like FreedomWorks who...
4.... organized and help promote the so called 9/12 "Tax Revolt" march on DC. And BTW, if that march were as spontaneous as you claim it was, then it wouldn't have needed ClusterFOX News's own staffer to actively promote and egg on the crowd. Furthermore, that million person attendance you claim? Oh yeah, total fabrication.
5. As you can see above, I did my own research, including such prominent left wing sites like the National Review and Politico. Really easy to refute bloviated and ridiculous assertions with a 30 second search on Google nowadays. Try it sometime.
6. I'd probably quibble with your 99% number, but I'll give you that - there's too much corporate influence in politics nowadays, and unless that's dealt with, we'll always be in an uphill battle to save our democracy.
"It's not hard to own something. Or everything. You just have to know that it's yours, and then be willing to let it go." - Neil Gaiman, "Stardust"
As a loyal, patriotic American, you are not only allowed to disagree, you are REQUIRED to.
However, there's a difference between expressing disagreement in the context of a reasoned debate, and what we're currently seeing from the teabagging crowd and the corporate sponsored astroturf movements.
amen
i've been saying the same thing for months. patriotism has never been blind allegiance to people or policy. patriotism is loyalty to an ideal - to principle. when i feel that an injustice has been committed, or our ideals or principles have been betrayed, i can't help but to speak out in defense of them. I speak out to preserve what I feel is great. I speak out because of what I love about this country, not out of hate.
First off it’s Tea Party not teabaggers (1). Can you tell me what is so wrong with what the Tea Party is doing? In one sentence you say it’s okay to disagree, but them you put people down for disagreeing(2). An then you go and quote Nancy P. who is full of shit and self serving with that astroturf comment(3). The million and a half people that showed up for the March in Washington on 9/12 were not sponsored by anyone, they all paid there own way there,there own lodging, there own food(4). You need to do some research about the Tea Party before you just start quoting politicians that don’t give two cents about the average American. (5). You need to open your eyes and see that 99% of the people in Washington, democrats and republicans alike are the ones that are corporate sponsored.(6)
Sorry, but you're quite wrong in several instances:
1. I reserve the term Tea Party for the event in Boston that helped pave the way for the American Revolutionary War...not to mention there's even infighting among the various groups as to who exactly owns the term "Tea Party". Besides, the term "teabagger" was their own creation.
2. Let's see.. how about shouting down elected representatives, disrupting town hall meetings, even going so far as to taunt and insult a disabled woman who wanted to speak on health care? Propagating outright lies like "death panels" and putting out images of Dachau at rallies? Yeah, that's productive. :roll:
3. Nancy P had nothing to do with "astroturf". The term "astroturf" refers to fake grassroots movements. Fake groups like FreedomWorks who...
4.... organized and help promote the so called 9/12 "Tax Revolt" march on DC. And BTW, if that march were as spontaneous as you claim it was, then it wouldn't have needed ClusterFOX News's own staffer to actively promote and egg on the crowd. Furthermore, that million person attendance you claim? Oh yeah, total fabrication.
5. As you can see above, I did my own research, including such prominent left wing sites like the National Review and Politico. Really easy to refute bloviated and ridiculous assertions with a 30 second search on Google nowadays. Try it sometime.
6. I'd probably quibble with your 99% number, but I'll give you that - there's too much corporate influence in politics nowadays, and unless that's dealt with, we'll always be in an uphill battle to save our democracy.
nice post. remind me to not get on your bad side lol...
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
0
g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
First off it’s Tea Party not teabaggers (1). Can you tell me what is so wrong with what the Tea Party is doing? In one sentence you say it’s okay to disagree, but them you put people down for disagreeing(2). An then you go and quote Nancy P. who is full of shit and self serving with that astroturf comment(3). The million and a half people that showed up for the March in Washington on 9/12 were not sponsored by anyone, they all paid there own way there,there own lodging, there own food(4). You need to do some research about the Tea Party before you just start quoting politicians that don’t give two cents about the average American. (5). You need to open your eyes and see that 99% of the people in Washington, democrats and republicans alike are the ones that are corporate sponsored.(6)
Sorry, but you're quite wrong in several instances:
1. I reserve the term Tea Party for the event in Boston that helped pave the way for the American Revolutionary War...not to mention there's even infighting among the various groups as to who exactly owns the term "Tea Party". Besides, the term "teabagger" was their own creation.
2. Let's see.. how about shouting down elected representatives, disrupting town hall meetings, even going so far as to taunt and insult a disabled woman who wanted to speak on health care? Propagating outright lies like "death panels" and putting out images of Dachau at rallies? Yeah, that's productive. :roll:
3. Nancy P had nothing to do with "astroturf". The term "astroturf" refers to fake grassroots movements. Fake groups like FreedomWorks who...
4.... organized and help promote the so called 9/12 "Tax Revolt" march on DC. And BTW, if that march were as spontaneous as you claim it was, then it wouldn't have needed ClusterFOX News's own staffer to actively promote and egg on the crowd. Furthermore, that million person attendance you claim? Oh yeah, total fabrication.
5. As you can see above, I did my own research, including such prominent left wing sites like the National Review and Politico. Really easy to refute bloviated and ridiculous assertions with a 30 second search on Google nowadays. Try it sometime.
6. I'd probably quibble with your 99% number, but I'll give you that - there's too much corporate influence in politics nowadays, and unless that's dealt with, we'll always be in an uphill battle to save our democracy.
nice post. remind me to not get on your bad side lol...
I was going to say the same thing. BTW would anything be any different had the Republicans won the Presidential election and Congress than what we have now?
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Of course there are differences, but they are not fundamental. Nobody should have any illusions. The United States has essentially a one-party system and the ruling party is the business party.
- Noam Chomsky
Starfall....1. I reserve the term Tea Party for the event in Boston that helped pave the way for the American Revolutionary War...
The Tea Party then and now had the same agenda . . . so YOU reserve the right . . . so what’s the point?
Teabagger was not our own creation......placing one’s scrotum on a person’s face / eyes / mouth is not the agenda for the Tea Party...I am sure you could agree.....fact is it’s a slang term used to perpetuate the smearing of the Tea Party Patriots. Would you use the “n word” because you heard someone on tv say it and therefore it must be okay? The term “teabagger” is just as insulting and demeaning to members of the Tea Party movement.
Starfall....2. Let's see.. how about shouting down elected representatives, disrupting town hall meetings, even going so far as to taunt and insult a disabled woman who wanted to speak on health care? Propagating outright lies like "death panels" and putting out images of Dachau at rallies? Yeah, that's productive.
When people are angry and no one is listening they raise there voice to be heard...the politicians are not used to America finally paying attention and asking real questions.....they thought they could feed us the usual lies they feed the public, then on a normal day we would usually walk away like the sheep they want us to be.....But now we are calling them out as to what they are (left and right) liars...we are finally going to hold them accountable....death panels was the wrong term for most ..not PC enough....
It wasn't very productive for union members (SEIU) to beat up a man just for giving out Don't Tread On Me items?.....or some other liberal to bite of the finger of a Tea Party Member was it? Was IT?
Starfall....3. Nancy P had nothing to do with "astroturf". The term "astroturf" refers to fake grassroots movements. Fake groups like FreedomWorks who...
She was referring to the Tea Party when she made her statement NOT Freedomworks
4.... organized and help promote the so called 9/12 "Tax Revolt" march on DC. And BTW, if that march were as spontaneous as you claim it was, then it wouldn't have needed ClusterFOX News's own staffer to actively promote and egg on the crowd. Furthermore, that million person attendance you claim? Oh yeah, total fabrication.
We didn’t need Fox to promote this March....they were the only ones brave enough to cover the NEWS extensively.....
so I just went to research the count...because honestly I have not researched it since March...don’t you think it funny that there still is no official count? Funny they can get a count on all other rally's......each web site contradicts the other...What is important is that it was a very large and significant crowd there to ask Washington for less involvement in their lives and the economy....... fiscal responsibility, free markets and Constitutionally limited government........it was also convenient for Obama to leave town during the demonstration but as soon as it was over he flew right back into Washington....
Did he ever recognize the fact that it even happened?
5. As you can see above, I did my own research, including such prominent left wing sites like the National Review and Politico. Really easy to refute bloviated and ridiculous assertions with a 30 second search on Google nowadays. Try it sometime.
What’s the point for every site you can find for your point I can find one to discredit you and vice versa
6. I'd probably quibble with your 99% number, but I'll give you that - there's too much corporate influence in politics nowadays, and unless that's dealt with, we'll always be in an uphill battle to save our democracy.
So we do agree here.....and the only movement I know that is doing anything at ALL is the Tea Party....you know of any other?
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
BTW would anything be any different had the Republicans won the Presidential election and Congress than what we have now? Peace
i don't think so g under p.
at the end of the day, parties and government aren't the problem. the real problem is that the voting public doesn't hold them accountable.
maybe true, but how can we?
we essentially have a one party system in the united states, your quote was right on. we have a business party, essentially a fascist state. as voters we can't cahnge the system, can't hold them acocuntable.
significant change comes from the people, not with ballots, but with 10 thousand fists in the air, with mass protest, with general strikes. we need to remind them who runs this sosciety, and when it gets bad enough show them we are not willing to play anymore. ultimately the people do have the power, not through voting but through our ability to shut this society down.
so i agree, completely. we neeed to hold them acocuntable.
BTW would anything be any different had the Republicans won the Presidential election and Congress than what we have now? Peace
i don't think so g under p.
at the end of the day, parties and government aren't the problem. the real problem is that the voting public doesn't hold them accountable.
maybe true, but how can we?
we essentially have a one party system in the united states, your quote was right on. we have a business party, essentially a fascist state. as voters we can't cahnge the system, can't hold them acocuntable.
significant change comes from the people, not with ballots, but with 10 thousand fists in the air, with mass protest, with general strikes. we need to remind them who runs this sosciety, and when it gets bad enough show them we are not willing to play anymore. ultimately the people do have the power, not through voting but through our ability to shut this society down.
so i agree, completely. we neeed to hold them acocuntable.
i hate to be cliche'd but that should be the post of the year
:thumbup:
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
at the end of the day, parties and government aren't the problem. the real problem is that the voting public doesn't hold them accountable.
maybe true, but how can we?
we essentially have a one party system in the united states, your quote was right on. we have a business party, essentially a fascist state. as voters we can't cahnge the system, can't hold them acocuntable.
significant change comes from the people, not with ballots, but with 10 thousand fists in the air, with mass protest, with general strikes. we need to remind them who runs this sosciety, and when it gets bad enough show them we are not willing to play anymore. ultimately the people do have the power, not through voting but through our ability to shut this society down.
so i agree, completely. we neeed to hold them acocuntable.
i hate to be cliche'd but that should be the post of the year
:thumbup:
right on commy. you nailed it.
the system is set up to make us think we can change things through elected officials and voting and such. all that is just an illusion of freedom.
i am fairly certain that there were no 1.5 million people there on 9/12...i have seen no source to say estimates were that high. that is like saying a billion showed up at the million man march when we all know there was no million people there...
Apples and oranges sweetie....I was there
no its not apples and oranges. my question was do you have a reputable source?? as usual you did not answer me. i was just saying it is easy to inflate numbers for dramatic effect which is what fox did with splicing footage from multiple events together a few months ago...
so i am to believe you counted 1.5 million people...ok...
i could not even estimate what 70,000 looks like, which is about what it was when i saw U2, let alone 1.5 million...
so I just went to research the count...because honestly I have not researched it since March...don’t you think it funny that there still is no official count? Funny they can get a count on all other rally's......each web site contradicts the other...What is important is that it was a very large and significant crowd there to ask Washington for less involvement in their lives and the economy
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
[so I just went to research the count...because honestly I have not researched it since March...don’t you think it funny that there still is no official count? Funny they can get a count on all other rally's......each web site contradicts the other...What is important is that it was a very large and significant crowd there to ask Washington for less involvement in their lives and the economy
i thought they were there to protest health care....make up your mind please. there is no official count because it must not have been a significant enough turnout. maybe your bravest network of all fox has some numbers on this?? it was no 1.5 million though. g under p was there and he said it was nowhere near that...for some reason i find him to be a more credible source than you.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Comments
I can understand people placing blame elsewhere but are we not allowed to disagree with the way they are trying to fix it? Mainly by making it worse.
certainly
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
As a loyal, patriotic American, you are not only allowed to disagree, you are REQUIRED to.
However, there's a difference between expressing disagreement in the context of a reasoned debate, and what we're currently seeing from the teabagging crowd and the corporate sponsored astroturf movements.
What we've been lacking in this country for the last few years is a loyal opposition - people who would express disagreement, dismay, and even outright anger - at current policies, but once ideas are heard and debated, would eventually come together with everyone so that the country moves forward.
As liberal as I am, I mourned the passing of such conservative stalwarts as William F. Buckley Jr, and BIll Safire. While I disagreed with them on matters of policy, their sharp intellects, reasoned arguments and willingness to debate properly made them figures I also admired.
Note that Buckley, for instance, pretty much ordered the expulsion of the radical John Birch Society from the ranks of the Republican party and the mainstream conservative movement, recognizing that their fringe views and radical methods would muddy debate and pull the country backwards.
I'm glad he's not alive to see them return to polite circles in the conservative movement - they're sponsoring the next Conservative Political Action Conference, for instance. :evil:
I think the problem there is that republicans do not feel heard. Therefore leading to tea parties and anger.
I completely, totally agree. The tea party movement is symptomatic of something much deeper among the people. They've seen their homes lost to foreclosure, their jobs and health care gone, the big banks who screwed over our economy getting bailed out, the endless array of DC insiders getting rich by lobbying and taking bribes, and they get the feeling they're being left out to dry by the very people who they had depended on to keep things going smoothly.
Is it any wonder they're angry, afraid and frustrated?
First off it’s Tea Party not teabaggers. Can you tell me what is so wrong with what the Tea Party is doing? In one sentence you say it’s okay to disagree, but them you put people down for disagreeing. An then you go and quote Nancy P. who is full of shit and self serving with that astroturf comment. The million and a half people that showed up for the March in Washington on 9/12 were not sponsored by anyone, they all paid there own way there,there own lodging, there own food. You need to do some research about the Tea Party before you just start quoting politicians that don’t give two cents about the average American. You need to open your eyes and see that 99% of the people in Washington, democrats and republicans alike are the ones that are corporate sponsored.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Try that :?: :?: in the Technical Stuff and Help you may not get an answer here.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I guess I'm a teabagger too. So be it.
I was there too, even marched along with the protestors and in no way were there 1. 5 or even close to A million people. What does it matter anyway people are going to inflate their numbers just to escalate their agenda, especially a start up one.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
so i am to believe you counted 1.5 million people...ok...
i could not even estimate what 70,000 looks like, which is about what it was when i saw U2, let alone 1.5 million...
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Sorry, but you're quite wrong in several instances:
1. I reserve the term Tea Party for the event in Boston that helped pave the way for the American Revolutionary War...not to mention there's even infighting among the various groups as to who exactly owns the term "Tea Party". Besides, the term "teabagger" was their own creation.
2. Let's see.. how about shouting down elected representatives, disrupting town hall meetings, even going so far as to taunt and insult a disabled woman who wanted to speak on health care? Propagating outright lies like "death panels" and putting out images of Dachau at rallies? Yeah, that's productive. :roll:
3. Nancy P had nothing to do with "astroturf". The term "astroturf" refers to fake grassroots movements. Fake groups like FreedomWorks who...
4.... organized and help promote the so called 9/12 "Tax Revolt" march on DC. And BTW, if that march were as spontaneous as you claim it was, then it wouldn't have needed ClusterFOX News's own staffer to actively promote and egg on the crowd. Furthermore, that million person attendance you claim? Oh yeah, total fabrication.
5. As you can see above, I did my own research, including such prominent left wing sites like the National Review and Politico.
6. I'd probably quibble with your 99% number, but I'll give you that - there's too much corporate influence in politics nowadays, and unless that's dealt with, we'll always be in an uphill battle to save our democracy.
which is more than i can say for some others.
I don't think that was the point he was trying to make.
i've been saying the same thing for months. patriotism has never been blind allegiance to people or policy. patriotism is loyalty to an ideal - to principle. when i feel that an injustice has been committed, or our ideals or principles have been betrayed, i can't help but to speak out in defense of them. I speak out to preserve what I feel is great. I speak out because of what I love about this country, not out of hate.
i wish more people would get that.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
but that's the point i'd like to make if that's ok with you
nice post. remind me to not get on your bad side lol...
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I was going to say the same thing. BTW would anything be any different had the Republicans won the Presidential election and Congress than what we have now?
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
at the end of the day, parties and government aren't the problem. the real problem is that the voting public doesn't hold them accountable.
- Noam Chomsky
http://www.chomsky.info/interviews/20081010.htm
The Tea Party then and now had the same agenda . . . so YOU reserve the right . . . so what’s the point?
Teabagger was not our own creation......placing one’s scrotum on a person’s face / eyes / mouth is not the agenda for the Tea Party...I am sure you could agree.....fact is it’s a slang term used to perpetuate the smearing of the Tea Party Patriots. Would you use the “n word” because you heard someone on tv say it and therefore it must be okay? The term “teabagger” is just as insulting and demeaning to members of the Tea Party movement.
When people are angry and no one is listening they raise there voice to be heard...the politicians are not used to America finally paying attention and asking real questions.....they thought they could feed us the usual lies they feed the public, then on a normal day we would usually walk away like the sheep they want us to be.....But now we are calling them out as to what they are (left and right) liars...we are finally going to hold them accountable....death panels was the wrong term for most ..not PC enough....
It wasn't very productive for union members (SEIU) to beat up a man just for giving out Don't Tread On Me items?.....or some other liberal to bite of the finger of a Tea Party Member was it? Was IT?
She was referring to the Tea Party when she made her statement NOT Freedomworks
We didn’t need Fox to promote this March....they were the only ones brave enough to cover the NEWS extensively.....
so I just went to research the count...because honestly I have not researched it since March...don’t you think it funny that there still is no official count? Funny they can get a count on all other rally's......each web site contradicts the other...What is important is that it was a very large and significant crowd there to ask Washington for less involvement in their lives and the economy....... fiscal responsibility, free markets and Constitutionally limited government........it was also convenient for Obama to leave town during the demonstration but as soon as it was over he flew right back into Washington....
Did he ever recognize the fact that it even happened?
What’s the point for every site you can find for your point I can find one to discredit you and vice versa
So we do agree here.....and the only movement I know that is doing anything at ALL is the Tea Party....you know of any other?
we essentially have a one party system in the united states, your quote was right on. we have a business party, essentially a fascist state. as voters we can't cahnge the system, can't hold them acocuntable.
significant change comes from the people, not with ballots, but with 10 thousand fists in the air, with mass protest, with general strikes. we need to remind them who runs this sosciety, and when it gets bad enough show them we are not willing to play anymore. ultimately the people do have the power, not through voting but through our ability to shut this society down.
so i agree, completely. we neeed to hold them acocuntable.
i hate to be cliche'd but that should be the post of the year
:thumbup:
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
the system is set up to make us think we can change things through elected officials and voting and such. all that is just an illusion of freedom.
like a box we check every 4 years makes us think we are important, changing things.
trading a militant capilitalist for a militant capitalist is not a choice.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."