ever have a friend that was like a brother to you..

decides2dream

given that most people seem to identify with what justam said, conor said....i think it's not an uncommon reaction to a new relationship. it may not be your reaction, and that doesn't mean anything either...just that it's a common reaction to get so swept up in someone new that all else just seems to 'not matter'...and no, of course, that doesn't mean you stop paying bills or going to work...just that, what you used to do with your other time, well now there is the new and exciting person in your life...and maybe you 'forget' to treutrn your best friend's call right away, or your moms...and yea, sometimes you don't get together with your friends or your family as much....at first...and ya know what? they understand. b/c most of them have been there, done that. for most, it's a joke, shorthand....almost expected. maybe not for you, fine. but for a LOT of us, it's our experiences and those we know and love...and we get on with it. in time, the shiny/new factor wears off, we settle in, settle down, and reembrace our 'regular life'...and if this person is importnat to us, we incorporate him or her more in our regular life instead of just focusing on them. it really is a natural part of the psychological start of a romantic relationship. hell, even a shiny new friend can be similar.

Whizbang

soulsinging wrote:

she didnt say not care about other people, she said not care about thinking about them for a while. you get caught up, and all else falls by the wayside for a little while. if you haven't, you're missing out.

hell yes, you're missing out.
being in love is like an insane adrenaline rush with your best friend. how can you not get caught up in that?

Lauri

justam wrote:

I'd like to know why saying that someone doesn't have experience is considered condescending. Tell me. Am I supposed to withhold information so that you don't feel like I'm talking DOWN to you?

Because you measured the level of love a person has felt by means of determining whether they've been "obsessed" or they don't think about other people. So by saying this, you're saying that if I've never been obsessed or forgotten other people, I haven't been "as" in love as someone who has. How can you measure something like that? How can you assume that other people would have the same reaction to love as others? Also I think it is rather simplistic, and yes condescending in the sense that I think of it, to assume that if someone disagrees with you it means they don't have experience/knowledge, and if they did, they would surely agree with you.

decides2dream

Whizbang wrote:

I'm pretty well exhausted just reading this thread!

I'm quite happy single. I have married friends, friends in committed relationships....both good and bad (don't get my started on my best friend Steve). I am by far not insulted if my friends don't answer their phone when I call or if they only leave me a message, if they don't call back, etc. I'm quite understanding that they have their priorities....I certainly have mine.

At this point in my dating life, I'm not up for anything committed. And I'm blunt about that. I'm not out looking for one night stands either....just happy to meet new people. I've dated men who expected me to keep my time free for them when they were available. Sorry, I keep myself busy. You want to make plans? Ask, don't expect me to be sitting on my ass on a Saturday night, waiting for you to call. However, being in a committed relationship, I'd want to spend time with him and would seek to make plans with him (at least I'd hope so, I kind of shudder at the thought at the moment!). Would I make plans with friends then drop them if he wanted to do something? Emphatic "no" there, people. committed or not, I don't break plans with my friends. I have a standing date with my mom on Thursdays. Unless he's got tickets to a game or something that can't be changed, Thursdays are with my mom. If a guy were to grow to be important enough in my life, he might get invited to my mom's for dinner....he fucks that up and it's over.

well let's get crazy for a moment here and say you fall head over heels in love, swoon for a guy. i know, just work with me.

you don't think ot's possible that YOU might want to spend every. free. moment. with him. at first? maybe you wouldn't. idk. we are after all adults now, not in HS. and most of us have been there, done that. thing is, you already say how you'd give friends a pass for being momentarily distracted by the shiny new dick in their bed ....so that really is it. it's cutting friends slack b/c you understand.
i'd not blow off plans...but sur, i'd probably not make as many plans with said friends as usual, simply b/c i am all cuaght up by my shiny new guy i am in love with. or, if i do have hard and fast plans...yea...he'd know and understand...b/c he is falling for me too. so many ways for this scenario to play out.

just sayin that t the start of committed relationships - and the 'committed' part implies a lot from the get-go - most of us appreciate how that will play out in our other relationships. every time my sister got a new BF, knew we wouldn't see/hear much of her for awhile, then we'd go thru the 'breaking in' phase of the new BF with the family...and when they broke up, i'd see/hear from her a LOT more. i've done the same. friends have done the same. yada yada yada. and it's not the end of the world.

whizbang wrote:

hell yes, you're missing out.
being in love is like an insane adrenaline rush with your best friend. how can you not get caught up in that?

see?
you still have heart in there.

justam

Lauri wrote:

justam wrote:

I'd like to know why saying that someone doesn't have experience is considered condescending. Tell me. Am I supposed to withhold information so that you don't feel like I'm talking DOWN to you?

Because you measured the level of love a person has felt by means of determining whether they've been "obsessed" or they don't think about other people. So by saying this, you're saying that if I've never been obsessed or forgotten other people, I haven't been "as" in love as someone who has. How can you measure something like that? How can you assume that other people would have the same reaction to love as others? Also I think it is rather simplistic, and yes condescending in the sense that I think of it, to assume that if someone disagrees with you it means they don't have experience/knowledge, and if they did, they would surely agree with you.

Ok. That explanation seems reasonable.

I didn't realize that my comments had those assumptions in them. I guess I WAS using what I felt was an understandable human experience to try to strengthen an alternate position.

decides2dream

justam wrote:

Lauri, have you ever been so in love that you are obsessed with the person? Have you ever been so in love that you don't really care about thinking about other people?

If you haven't, can you see how your lack of experience might make you more likely to be upset when people get like this?

Lauri wrote:

justam wrote:

I'd like to know why saying that someone doesn't have experience is considered condescending. Tell me. Am I supposed to withhold information so that you don't feel like I'm talking DOWN to you?

Because you measured the level of love a person has felt by means of determining whether they've been "obsessed" or they don't think about other people. So by saying this, you're saying that if I've never been obsessed or forgotten other people, I haven't been "as" in love as someone who has. How can you measure something like that? How can you assume that other people would have the same reaction to love as others? Also I think it is rather simplistic, and yes condescending in the sense that I think of it, to assume that if someone disagrees with you it means they don't have experience/knowledge, and if they did, they would surely agree with you.

she asked if you ever had that particular experience.
then said, if you hadn't...could you possibly understand how then it would impair your ability to empathize with the situation?
that's not condescending.
if you've not experienced it firsthand, you'd not really know how it feels, thus would impair your comprehension of it. no measuring there.
also, it's not so odd...there are numerous psych studies on love, relationships, stages and behaviors. what she wrote of is fairly common.

Lauri

decides2dream wrote:

given that most people seem to identify with what justam said, conor said....i think it's not an uncommon reaction to a new relationship. it may not be your reaction, and that doesn't mean anything either...just that it's a common reaction to get so swept up in someone new that all else just seems to 'not matter'...and no, of course, that doesn't mean you stop paying bills or going to work...just that, what you used to do with your other time, well now there is the new and exciting person in your life...and maybe you 'forget' to treutrn your best friend's call right away, or your moms...and yea, sometimes you don't get together with your friends or your family as much....at first...and ya know what? they understand. b/c most of them have been there, done that. for most, it's a joke, shorthand....almost expected. maybe not for you, fine. but for a LOT of us, it's our experiences and those we know and love...and we get on with it. in time, the shiny/new factor wears off, we settle in, settle down, and reembrace our 'regular life'...and if this person is importnat to us, we incorporate him or her more in our regular life instead of just focusing on them. it really is a natural part of the psychological start of a romantic relationship. hell, even a shiny new friend can be similar.

I'm really sorry, but I still don't think it justifies treating people as if they are less important. I don't think anyone is going to change my mind. I know that when I've started new relationships, I've made an effort to make sure that doesn't happen. I think that's the issue. Many have suggested that the dumpee make an effort to adapt to the dumper's new relationship. But no one has suggested that the dumper make any kind of such effort. If you add another important person to your life, it's going to take some extra effort on your part too, if not moreso than your friend's because you're the one who's made the change. Someone who doesn't make that effort isn't a real friend in my book.

When I started seeing my last boyfriend, time was very limited for me due to work. I didn't have too many free nights. But before I had met him, I had a standing weekly dinner with a group of friends. I continued to go to those dinners, even if it meant not getting to see my new boyfriend. I'd invite him to come, but being as they were my friends, sometimes he didn't want to. It's all about commitment. We've discussed being committed to a romantic partner, but to me a commitment is a commitment, and a new boyfriend or life long spouse just doesn't trump my commitment to my friends. You know there's also the golden rule, "do unto others..."

Whizbang

decides2dream wrote:

whizbang wrote:

hell yes, you're missing out.
being in love is like an insane adrenaline rush with your best friend. how can you not get caught up in that?

see?
you still have heart in there.

shhhhh.....don't tell anyone....

I'm with ya! I'm understanding of it. If I weren't, I certainly wouldn't be friends with a few of my closest friends now. They certainly understand when I do have the shiny new dick in my bed. and I ain't talking about the latest delivery from A&E.

Lauri

decides2dream wrote:

she asked if you ever had that particular experience.
then said, if you hadn't...could you possibly understand how then it would impair your ability to empathize with the situation?
that's not condescending.
if you've not experienced it firsthand, you'd not really know how it feels, thus would impair your comprehension of it. no measuring there.
also, it's not so odd...there are numerous psych studies on love, relationships, stages and behaviors. what she wrote of is fairly common.

See my explanation above.

decides2dream

thing is, i am NOT trying to change your mind. i think what you think is a-ok for you. thing is, you seem to present this pov of yours like it is the one right way, like we all should view relationships as you do, we should respect your pov. i do respect it. i only ask the same. you don't see it, fair enough...but really...i don't think my horizons need broadening or acceptance on this issue. i think ypu might want to look into it tho. but yes, of course, feel free to disregard. i am only someone on the internet. perhaps discuss with your friends, hopefully they think just as you do if they are so important to you.

Lauri wrote:

decides2dream wrote:

given that most people seem to identify with what justam said, conor said....i think it's not an uncommon reaction to a new relationship. it may not be your reaction, and that doesn't mean anything either...just that it's a common reaction to get so swept up in someone new that all else just seems to 'not matter'...and no, of course, that doesn't mean you stop paying bills or going to work...just that, what you used to do with your other time, well now there is the new and exciting person in your life...and maybe you 'forget' to treutrn your best friend's call right away, or your moms...and yea, sometimes you don't get together with your friends or your family as much....at first...and ya know what? they understand. b/c most of them have been there, done that. for most, it's a joke, shorthand....almost expected. maybe not for you, fine. but for a LOT of us, it's our experiences and those we know and love...and we get on with it. in time, the shiny/new factor wears off, we settle in, settle down, and reembrace our 'regular life'...and if this person is importnat to us, we incorporate him or her more in our regular life instead of just focusing on them. it really is a natural part of the psychological start of a romantic relationship. hell, even a shiny new friend can be similar.

I'm really sorry, but I still don't think it justifies treating people as if they are less important. I don't think anyone is going to change my mind. I know that when I've started new relationships, I've made an effort to make sure that doesn't happen. I think that's the issue. Many have suggested that the dumpee make an effort to adapt to the dumper's new relationship. But no one has suggested that the dumper make any kind of such effort. If you add another important person to your life, it's going to take some extra effort on your part too, if not moreso than your friend's because you're the one who's made the change. Someone who doesn't make that effort isn't a real friend in my book.

When I started seeing my last boyfriend, time was very limited for me due to work. I didn't have too many free nights. But before I had met him, I had a standing weekly dinner with a group of friends. I continued to go to those dinners, even if it meant not getting to see my new boyfriend. I'd invite him to come, but being as they were my friends, sometimes he didn't want to. It's all about commitment. We've discussed being committed to a romantic partner, but to me a commitment is a commitment, and a new boyfriend or life long spouse just doesn't trump my commitment to my friends. You know there's also the golden rule, "do unto others..."

btw - i saw your explanation above re justams post. i still stand by my own assessment. i am a-ok with agreeing to disagree.

decides2dream

Whizbang wrote:

decides2dream wrote:

whizbang wrote:

hell yes, you're missing out.
being in love is like an insane adrenaline rush with your best friend. how can you not get caught up in that?

see?
you still have heart in there.

shhhhh.....don't tell anyone....

I'm with ya! I'm understanding of it. If I weren't, I certainly wouldn't be friends with a few of my closest friends now. They certainly understand when I do have the shiny new dick in my bed. and I ain't talking about the latest delivery from A&E.

exactly.
dinner with me...or shiny new dick?
no contest.
i'm your friend, and i'll still be here...whether you marry the new dick, kick it to the curb, or just keep it in rotation. that;s life, relationships, friendships. i know i am still a beloved friend, i don't need you to prove it to me endlessly, just when it counts.

Whizbang

decides2dream wrote:

exactly.
dinner with me...or shiny new dick?
no contest.
i'm your friend, and i'll still be here...whether you marry the new dick, kick it to the curb, or just keep it in rotation. that;s life, relationships, friendships. i know i am still a beloved friend, i don't need you to prove it to me endlessly, just when it counts.

and that, mi amigo, sums it up perfectly!
I'm going to keep going with the rotation for a bit....

decides2dream

Whizbang wrote:

decides2dream wrote:

exactly.
dinner with me...or shiny new dick?
no contest.
i'm your friend, and i'll still be here...whether you marry the new dick, kick it to the curb, or just keep it in rotation. that;s life, relationships, friendships. i know i am still a beloved friend, i don't need you to prove it to me endlessly, just when it counts.

and that, mi amigo, sums it up perfectly!
I'm going to keep going with the rotation for a bit....

haha. right.
no one is advocating treating friends like shit. just pointing out - what i thought was - the obvious. it's like an unspoken understanding amongst friends. when first in love, all bets are off. real friends understand, and don't feel slighted. obviously, if the issue goes beyond this, to true neglect, another story...but the usual i am crazy-in-love-can't-get-enough-of -this-person scenario plays out...well...it plays out. friendships intact. the crazy-in-love, may or may not. all depends. honestly, i never really experienced, nor seen anyone else, any other way. c'est la vie....


those beginnings....man....what FUN!
christ.
you can recapture it a bit from time to time....but yea...the start is always just soooooo intoxicating.
*swoons*

Lauri

decides2dream wrote:

but really...i don't think my horizons need broadening or acceptance on this issue. i think ypu might want to look into it tho.

You don't think your horizons need broadening, but mine do...riiight. How do you know my horizons aren't as broad as they come, or that your's aren't very limited?

Sorry but you can't say you respect my opinion and then tell me I should go broaden my horizons...yeah if you "respected" my opinion you wouldn't also think it's uninformed. Just saying things like, "I respect your opinion" and "agree to disagree" doesn't mean you actually mean it, especially when you pretty much say you don't right in the next breath.

decides2dream

Lauri wrote:

decides2dream wrote:

but really...i don't think my horizons need broadening or acceptance on this issue. i think ypu might want to look into it tho.

You don't think your horizons need broadening, but mine do...riiight. How do you know my horizons aren't as broad as they come, or that your's aren't very limited?

Sorry but you can't say you respect my opinion and then tell me I should go broaden my horizons...yeah if you "respected" my opinion you wouldn't also think it's uninformed. Just saying things like, "I respect your opinion" and "agree to disagree" doesn't mean you actually mean it, especially when you pretty much say you don't right in the next breath.

b/c i am saying i respect your opinion. i don't think your'e wrong..and yet, you seem to suggest that my pov is wrong. thus, why i believe you might possibly broaden your horizons there. that's all.

or not. :P
seriously, i really don't care what you think. honest.
this is enjoyable discussion for me.
i DO agree...to disagree!
ii do disgaree with much that you say here, and i agree that it's a-ok! i am not trying to 'convince' you, at all. i don't waste my time trying to convince anyone of anything, especially when they have no bearing on my own life, influence on it, or are not someone i love/care about. it's good convo tho. your opinions do interest me, simply b/c they run so counter to my own. but no, i take none of it 'personally.'

i am understood by those i care about, that's all i need.
and even here, i feel 'understood' enough to not feel crazy, so it's all good. and i seriously do hope you maintain the kind of friendships and relationships you desire, it's what we all hope for and hopefully achieve. being understood and respected in kind, it's the best we can have..committed relationships, friendships, family, all of it.


btw - where did i ever say your pov was uninformed? i didn't. i only advocate 'accepting' many of the povs you are dismissing here, just like you want us to accept yours. i accept it. i could not live by it, but i do accept it as valid. of course it is.

Lauri

decides2dream wrote:

it's like an unspoken understanding amongst friends. when first in love, all bets are off.

Good lord woman! I'm glad I'm not in your circle of friends! Love is not a mental illness. It's not like pleading insanity. You can't do things you know are wrong and say, oh well, I was in love for a bit there and expect people to just put it out of their minds. In one breath you say that it's never ok to "treat someone like shit" and then in the next you say, "but if you're in a new relationship all bets are off." Treating a friend like they "don't fucking exist" is treating someone like shit. If you disagree with that...I don't know what to say. If you agree with that, then it can't be justified just by being "in love," by your own admission.

Lauri

decides2dream wrote:

btw - where did i ever say your pov was uninformed? i didn't. i only advocate 'accepting' many of the povs you are dismissing here, just like you want us to accept yours. i accept it. i could not live by it, but i do accept it as valid. of course it is.

you said I should think about broadening my horizons.
And I sound like my opinions are "right" because we're arguing here. You don't submit an op-ed to the Times and say, "well I don't know what I'm talking about, and I'm not going to back up anything I say, because these are just opinions and I don't want anyone to understand my point. I don't know why I'm bothering to write an op-ed." Of course they're my "opinions" but I'm trying to make a point. If it comes off to you as if I'm asserting I'm right, then I'm doing my job in the debate.

decides2dream

Lauri wrote:

decides2dream wrote:

it's like an unspoken understanding amongst friends. when first in love, all bets are off.

Good lord woman! I'm glad I'm not in your circle of friends! Love is not a mental illness. It's not like pleading insanity. You can't do things you know are wrong and say, oh well, I was in love for a bit there and expect people to just put it out of their minds. In one breath you say that it's never ok to "treat someone like shit" and then in the next you say, "but if you're in a new relationship all bets are off." Treating a friend like they "don't fucking exist" is treating someone like shit. If you disagree with that...I don't know what to say. If you agree with that, then it can't be justified just by being "in love," by your own admission.

good lord woman!
hahaha.
ditto.
my friends know i have their back and love them.
sorry if you don't understand my shorthand. 'all bets are off' does not imply treating friends like shit. i've never treated a friend like shit. i have however, not hung out with them as often when in a new love. they've done the same. we all understand each other. you and i, thankfully, don't have to. i've never treated a friend like they don't fucking exist. you might want to actually read what people post before making assumptions on their ideas. that's all.


whiz...justam...conor....pjhawks...etc...thanks for making me feel sane.
crazy love is FUN, and good friends understand!


broadening horizons = uninformed opinions?
we clearly speak a different vocabulary. eh well.

justam

Lauri wrote:

decides2dream wrote:

it's like an unspoken understanding amongst friends. when first in love, all bets are off.

Good lord woman! I'm glad I'm not in your circle of friends! Love is not a mental illness. It's not like pleading insanity. You can't do things you know are wrong and say, oh well, I was in love for a bit there and expect people to just put it out of their minds. In one breath you say that it's never ok to "treat someone like shit" and then in the next you say, "but if you're in a new relationship all bets are off." Treating a friend like they "don't fucking exist" is treating someone like shit. If you disagree with that...I don't know what to say. If you agree with that, then it can't be justified just by being "in love," by your own admission.

You accused me of being condescending and then you talk to decides2dream like THIS?

You're making me sorry I let you off so easily. :geek:

Lauri

decides2dream wrote:

i've never treated a friend like they don't fucking exist. you might want to actually read what people post before making assumptions on their ideas. that's all.

This entire thread is based on one guy treating another guy like he "doesn't fucking exist." What didn't I read?

decides2dream wrote:

broadening horizons = uninformed opinions?
we clearly speak a different vocabulary. eh well.

well did you mean then? You said that your horizons don't need to be broadened but mine do. I took that is you claiming that you are more experienced/have seen more/are more knowledgeable about the situation than I am.