Lauri - the problem I see with your attitude is that you do not have the right to choose what your friends prioritize in their life. When a friend chooses to focus more on a romantic relationship how do you react to that? Do you accept the change and adapt to it or do you take it as some kind of slight to yourself personally and react negatively to it? A true friend adapts and accepts the changes their friend has chosen. A friendship shouldn't have a scorecard. It shouldn't be you called them 10 times and they only called you once. If you choose to make no changes in your friendships when you are in a relationship that is all well and good but how do you truly react when your friends choose a different path than your own?
I completely agree with this. Go ahead and adapt! adapt! Adapt to changes in your circumstances or your friend's. But I say, don't feel obligated to adapt to downright nasty behavior from your friend. Drop the Leash said that he "doesn't fucking exist" to his friend. His friend has shown him that he is of no importance to him. We don't really know much else about this, but if Drop the Leash's friend has said, "hey sorry, dude, I can't hang out friday because I already promised my girlfriend I would go out with her, but let's hang out saturday instead." Ok, that pretty much calls for adaptation. But if Drop the Leash's friend doesn't make an effort to see him, reschedules every time they make plans, clearly demonstrates that his girlfriend is more important than he is, etc., then Drop the Leash doesn't have to adapt to anything because his friend has basically ended the friendship. It's not up to Drop the Leash. I don't really think that Drop the Leash should wait around and hope that is friend comes to his senses, OR that he should make concessions himself to accommodate his friend when his friend isn't making that kind of effort. Friendship is a two-way street, regardless if whether one of the people is coupled or anything else. I guarantee that some day his friend will realize that he needs him, and it's Drop the Leash's decision whether he wants his friend to learn something or whether he goes back to him, but in my opinion, the former is justifiable if you've been treated like shit.
let's be real - the ONLY reason the term 'significant other' EVER took off was to be all-inclusive/PC. it covers married people, people who live together, gay couples who cannot marry, etc. years ago you could simply say "spouse" and cover it all.....nowadays, you can't...thus the birth of 'significant other.'
btw - there is NO one, and i truly mean no one...who would ever do ALL the things my husband does for me. there are many people who do some of the things he does, but not anywhere near all. really, he's just time efficient. i love my friends. i love my family. i truly love em all. but yes, i can easily say i love my husband more. of i had kids, i'd probably love them and my husband more than anyone. even my own mother. there is something even *more* imo, in choosing who is your 'family'...and that is what my husband is to me. i have no problem with people who think differently about it, but i am certainly not 'wrong' for how i think or feel either. and i am certain not one of my friends or family feel slighted or hurt by it. they love me. i love them. we all want each other to be happy.
well it is nice to be loved - as Ed sings "I'm a lucky man to count on both hands the ones I love, some folks they got one, others they got none" - the funny thing is I am single and pretty much all of my friends are married and most with kids - but i have friends i have had for up to 30 years. I fully understand and respect the fact that they might have married friends, or parent friends - doesn't mean they love me any less than they did before. In a weird way I think it is awesome to have friends that you don't need to be involved in their every day life - yet whenever you see them or talk, once a year, five times a year, 30 times a year, etc. you are the same friends and there for them when they need a friend. i've never understood how easily some people throw away friends - as I get older the only thing that matters to me are people in my life - work, money, etc. is all BS.
i LOVE that line.
that whole tune...*swoons*..such a tribute to 'significant others'...hahaha.
seriously, we are childless, i imagine more non-traditional family/friends gatherings as we age...even amongst many 'traditional' families, i see more and more non-tradtional ways of gathering together. no one is saying there is 'one right way'...and certainly not to the detriment of friendship. it's just life. single or coupled...getting older changes a lot of things. hell, even when i was single....my friendships grew/changed a LOT. that's the stuff of living. if your friendships mean so much to you, you roll with it. i mentioned earlier seeing one of my BEST friends, a friendship over 20+ years...saw her for the first time in 6 years...and how awesome it was. ad you bet, neither one of us felt let out, or tossed aside...it's how both our lives have traversed...and yes, she is single and i am not...but she probably is busier than me!
Lauri - the problem I see with your attitude is that you do not have the right to choose what your friends prioritize in their life. When a friend chooses to focus more on a romantic relationship how do you react to that? Do you accept the change and adapt to it or do you take it as some kind of slight to yourself personally and react negatively to it? A true friend adapts and accepts the changes their friend has chosen. A friendship shouldn't have a scorecard. It shouldn't be you called them 10 times and they only called you once. If you choose to make no changes in your friendships when you are in a relationship that is all well and good but how do you truly react when your friends choose a different path than your own?
I completely agree with this. Go ahead and adapt! adapt! Adapt to changes in your circumstances or your friend's. But I say, don't feel obligated to adapt to downright nasty behavior from your friend. Drop the Leash said that he "doesn't fucking exist" to his friend. His friend has shown him that he is of no importance to him. We don't really know much else about this, but if Drop the Leash's friend has said, "hey sorry, dude, I can't hang out friday because I already promised my girlfriend I would go out with her, but let's hang out saturday instead." Ok, that pretty much calls for adaptation. But if Drop the Leash's friend doesn't make an effort to see him, reschedules every time they make plans, clearly demonstrates that his girlfriend is more important than he is, etc., then Drop the Leash doesn't have to adapt to anything because his friend has basically ended the friendship. It's not up to Drop the Leash. I don't really think that Drop the Leash should wait around and hope that is friend comes to his senses, OR that make concessions himself to accommodate his friend's poor behavior. I guarantee that some day his friend will realize that he needs him, and it's Drop the Leash's decision whether he wants his friend to learn something or whether he goes back to him, but in my opinion, the former is justifiable if you've been treated like shit.
well as I said before it seems like you are using a scorecard to count the friendship. can you tell me how long for someone not to call you do you consider them treating you like shit and not your friend anymore? I have friends I could go a year without speaking to but that doesn't mean I am no longer their friend or wouldn't be there for them when needed. Again a true friend will be there when needed whether thats a day, month, or year. Clearly your thoughts are different than mine and many others on here - I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
Lauri, have you ever been so in love that you are obsessed with the person? Have you ever been so in love that you don't really care about thinking about other people?
If you haven't, can you see how your lack of experience might make you more likely to be upset when people get like this?
as to the OP..i think we all identify, simply b/c we've all been there. i think i am correct in saying drop the leash is under 18? maybe 20? so i think most of us remember those first loves, the infatuation...and sure, as conor mentions...the getting laid. it's almost natural to want to be with the person all the time. or, simply, you are growing up and figuring it out...it's not done on purpose. of COURSE behaving like that long-term is wrong and unhealthy, and NO one should tolerate being treated like that. the OP is a rather broad/vague statement....so we all kinda made our own interpretations. i think the 'get used to it' assessments merely meant, we all have to get used to the idea of not being the end-all, be-all in our friend's lives, it's never like it was when we were say 10.15 years old. and you bet, sex is a big part of that reason why.
have you ever been so in love that you are obsessed with the person? Have you ever been so in love that you don't really care about thinking about other people?
If you haven't, can you see how your lack of experience might make you more likely to be upset when people get like this?
Lauri - the problem I see with your attitude is that you do not have the right to choose what your friends prioritize in their life. When a friend chooses to focus more on a romantic relationship how do you react to that? Do you accept the change and adapt to it or do you take it as some kind of slight to yourself personally and react negatively to it? A true friend adapts and accepts the changes their friend has chosen. A friendship shouldn't have a scorecard. It shouldn't be you called them 10 times and they only called you once.
well it is nice to be loved - as Ed sings "I'm a lucky man to count on both hands the ones I love, some folks they got one, others they got none" - the funny thing is I am single and pretty much all of my friends are married and most with kids - but i have friends i have had for up to 30 years. I fully understand and respect the fact that they might have married friends, or parent friends - doesn't mean they love me any less than they did before. In a weird way I think it is awesome to have friends that you don't need to be involved in their every day life - yet whenever you see them or talk, once a year, five times a year, 30 times a year, etc. you are the same friends and there for them when they need a friend. i've never understood how easily some people throw away friends - as I get older the only thing that matters to me are people in my life - work, money, etc. is all BS.
well said. it's about quality, not quantity. i understand when my friends have priorities other than mine and i dont judge by how much time they have for me but by how the time we spend together is. almost all of my friends in the city i just moved to are in committed relationships. i don't begrudge them that or act jilted by that. nor do i insult them by telling them they're part of some insidious misogynistic patriarchy for it. i go out and meet other people, focus on work, or kick back and read a book.
Lauri, have you ever been so in love that you are obsessed with the person? Have you ever been so in love that you don't really care about thinking about other people?
If you haven't, can you see how your lack of experience might make you more likely to be upset when people get like this?
exactly. i was like this for a long time myself...
as to the OP..i think we all identify, simply b/c we've all been there. i think i am correct in saying drop the leash is under 18? maybe 20? so i think most of us remember those first loves, the infatuation...and sure, as conor mentions...the getting laid. it's almost natural to want to be with the person all the time. or, simply, you are growing up and figuring it out...it's not done on purpose. of COURSE behaving like that long-term is wrong and unhealthy, and NO one should tolerate being treated like that. the OP is a rather broad/vague statement....so we all kinda made our own interpretations. i think the 'get used to it' assessments merely meant, we all have to get used to the idea of not being the end-all, be-all in our friend's lives, it's never like it was when we were say 10.15 years old. and you bet, sex is a big part of that reason why.
i should stop posting in this thread now becos i think the 3 of you have said everything i intended to much better than i did
well as I said before it seems like you are using a scorecard to count the friendship. can you tell me how long for someone not to call you do you consider them treating you like shit and not your friend anymore? I have friends I could go a year without speaking to but that doesn't mean I am no longer their friend or wouldn't be there for them when needed. Again a true friend will be there when needed whether thats a day, month, or year. Clearly your thoughts are different than mine and many others on here - I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
no no, I'm not using scorecards of any kind. It's not as cut-and-dry as waiting a specified amount of time for someone to call, and that might not even be the issue. You can tell when a friend has pulled themselves out of the picture. I don't think we're really in that much disagreement here. I just don't think that it's right to treat your friends badly for any reason. It's not a matter of not just being busier. Say Drop the Leash's friend joins a basketball team and now he can't hang out on Friday nights because he has games. Now maybe they hang out another time or something. Maybe Drop the Leash is on a hockey team and they have no time to hang out for a while, ok, as long as they both still care about the other person. What it seems like has happened- and what seems to happen a lot in the case of leaving a friend for a partner- is that Drop the Leash's friend really just doesn't care about him anymore. He thinks he doesn't need a friend because he has a girlfriend. If that's really the case, then you know when it's happened, and you know it's not up to you. To say that the guy should "adapt" to this says to me he should let his friend treat him like a doormat, and that his friend's behavior is acceptable because he ditched him for a girl. I'm not looking at it in terms of cut and dry scenario with a score.
maybe we are simply looking at the 'bigger picture' and not just drops individual scenario. i mean, we're talking about a guy under 20...and then most of us chiming in are a lot older, some married, with families etc. different life situations. bottomline, i have not seen one person advocate it is ever ok to treat a friend badly.
Lauri, have you ever been so in love that you are obsessed with the person? Have you ever been so in love that you don't really care about thinking about other people?
If you haven't, can you see how your lack of experience might make you more likely to be upset when people get like this?
exactly. i was like this for a long time myself...
Yay! the condescension twins have arrived!
Yes, I have been in love, no I have never not cared about other people. I hope I never have that experience, and I don't think someone who does is justified in treating other people badly.
Lauri, have you ever been so in love that you are obsessed with the person? Have you ever been so in love that you don't really care about thinking about other people?
If you haven't, can you see how your lack of experience might make you more likely to be upset when people get like this?
i also think this is an excellent question for the OP.
empathy and life experience greatly aids understanding oftentimes. we are a lot more tolerant when it's something we have experienced and know, and thus cut more slack.
obviously, if a friend is outta hand and taken too far...there are always points in some friendships that you realize, the friendship isn't worth it...and it's not even always related to such scenarios. for most of us tho, what the OP posted is mostly the growing pains of growing up.
man, i remember those first loves!
the drama!
the excitement!
the sex!
all the firsts - whoa....
What it seems like has happened- and what seems to happen a lot in the case of leaving a friend for a partner- is that Drop the Leash's friend really just doesn't care about him anymore. He thinks he doesn't need a friend because he has a girlfriend. If that's really the case, then you know when it's happened, and you know it's not up to you. To say that the guy should "adapt" to this says to me he should let his friend treat him like a doormat, and that his friend's behavior is acceptable because he ditched him for a girl. I'm not looking at it in terms of cut and dry scenario with a score.
i don't think it seems like that at all. like d2d said, everyone i know has gone through this in hs and/or college at some point. people get caught up in the excitement of a first love or the excitement of getting laid often and swoon. they snap out of it eventually (likely when the gf/bf rips your poor friend's heart out, hehe), and things go on as they were before. it's no different from your analogy of them getting caught up in a passion for diff sports and not seeing each other much for a while. he shouldn't let something like this derail a friendship that means something to him, becos what's going on is not nearly so malicious as you pretend.
Lauri, have you ever been so in love that you are obsessed with the person? Have you ever been so in love that you don't really care about thinking about other people?
If you haven't, can you see how your lack of experience might make you more likely to be upset when people get like this?
exactly. i was like this for a long time myself...
Yes, I have been in love, no I have never not cared about other people. I hope I never have that experience, and I don't think someone who does is justified in treating other people badly.
she didnt say not care about other people, she said not care about thinking about them for a while. you get caught up, and all else falls by the wayside for a little while. if you haven't, you're missing out.
Lauri, have you ever been so in love that you are obsessed with the person? Have you ever been so in love that you don't really care about thinking about other people?
If you haven't, can you see how your lack of experience might make you more likely to be upset when people get like this?
exactly. i was like this for a long time myself...
Yay! the condescension twins have arrived!
Yes, I have been in love, no I have never not cared about other people. I hope I never have that experience, and I don't think someone who does is justified in treating other people badly.
I'd like to know why saying that someone doesn't have experience is considered condescending. Tell me. Am I supposed to withhold information so that you don't feel like I'm talking DOWN to you?
maybe we are simply looking at the 'bigger picture' and not just drops individual scenario. i mean, we're talking about a guy under 20...and then most of us chiming in are a lot older, some married, with families etc. different life situations. bottomline, i have not seen one person advocate it is ever ok to treat a friend badly.
But we all seem to disagree on what it means to treat a friend badly. I'm sorry but I think treating some who is close enough to be a brother as if they don't exist can be considered "badly." Granted Drop the Leash could be overreacting, and yeah, I take him to be fairly young. I'm just assuming that we can all agree that treating someone like they don't exist is bad, regardless of whether that's what's really happen in Drop the Leash's particular example. We're all speaking theoretically here. A lot of people here seem to think that it's ok to treat your friends "like they don't exist" if your reason for it is finding a girlfriend. I don't think that comes close to justifying it.
she didnt say not care about other people, she said not care about thinking about them for a while. you get caught up, and all else falls by the wayside for a little while. if you haven't, you're missing out.
:thumbup:
seriously!
just about every romantic relationship i've had, and amongst any that i know of involving friends/family...all the same. it's new! it's exciting! you're falling in love! you get swept away! i'ts not malicious, it's not purposeful...and soon enough you realize....
and again, i am not really speaking to drop's individual scenario. i don't think most of us are/were at this point. treating someone like they don't exist is never cool. i think most of us took it to mean in an overal dissatisfaction. not literally. i think drop never really clarified further. i think mot of us have been in drop's position...and his friend's...that's all. see both sides. again, if the friend really is being a prick, well alrighty..time to move on, not a real friend. however, i'd more than likely guess..it's the temporary beginnings, and most of us simply identify. with both sides. it's simply a life phase, and not something to take personally.
we got into a WHOLE lot more than just drop's situation. :P
she didnt say not care about other people, she said not care about thinking about them for a while. you get caught up, and all else falls by the wayside for a little while. if you haven't, you're missing out.
Well I don't understand what you mean by this, because I don't really walk around "thinking about" other people to start with. What do you mean? Do you mean forgetting people's birthdays or something like that?
Nope, never gotten so "caught up" that the rest of my life "falls by the wayside." I've been pretty damn infatuated at times, day dreaming about someone I've started seeing, things like that. But I still manage to function and show up at work and pay my bills and see my friends.
You can claim I'm "missing out" on something, but I really don't think I am, and honestly, do we really think we're going to clearly understand how complete strangers we've just been typing with are going to feel deep down when they're in a relationship? And judge them if they don't have the same feelings and reactions that we do? How can you possibly know what feelings I'm missing out on? How do you know I'm not having better feelings that you're not! .
I'm pretty well exhausted just reading this thread!
I'm quite happy single. I have married friends, friends in committed relationships....both good and bad (don't get my started on my best friend Steve). I am by far not insulted if my friends don't answer their phone when I call or if they only leave me a message, if they don't call back, etc. I'm quite understanding that they have their priorities....I certainly have mine.
At this point in my dating life, I'm not up for anything committed. And I'm blunt about that. I'm not out looking for one night stands either....just happy to meet new people. I've dated men who expected me to keep my time free for them when they were available. Sorry, I keep myself busy. You want to make plans? Ask, don't expect me to be sitting on my ass on a Saturday night, waiting for you to call. However, being in a committed relationship, I'd want to spend time with him and would seek to make plans with him (at least I'd hope so, I kind of shudder at the thought at the moment!). Would I make plans with friends then drop them if he wanted to do something? Emphatic "no" there, people. committed or not, I don't break plans with my friends. I have a standing date with my mom on Thursdays. Unless he's got tickets to a game or something that can't be changed, Thursdays are with my mom. If a guy were to grow to be important enough in my life, he might get invited to my mom's for dinner....he fucks that up and it's over.
believe it or not, we don't "need" anything. that is only the spoiled brat in us trying to fill some temporary solution to an emptyness that does not exist.
I have eaten so much gold I crapped excellence - drtyfrnk29
Life is either a daring adventure or nothing at all!
given that most people seem to identify with what justam said, conor said....i think it's not an uncommon reaction to a new relationship. it may not be your reaction, and that doesn't mean anything either...just that it's a common reaction to get so swept up in someone new that all else just seems to 'not matter'...and no, of course, that doesn't mean you stop paying bills or going to work...just that, what you used to do with your other time, well now there is the new and exciting person in your life...and maybe you 'forget' to treutrn your best friend's call right away, or your moms...and yea, sometimes you don't get together with your friends or your family as much....at first...and ya know what? they understand. b/c most of them have been there, done that. for most, it's a joke, shorthand....almost expected. maybe not for you, fine. but for a LOT of us, it's our experiences and those we know and love...and we get on with it. in time, the shiny/new factor wears off, we settle in, settle down, and reembrace our 'regular life'...and if this person is importnat to us, we incorporate him or her more in our regular life instead of just focusing on them. it really is a natural part of the psychological start of a romantic relationship. hell, even a shiny new friend can be similar.
she didnt say not care about other people, she said not care about thinking about them for a while. you get caught up, and all else falls by the wayside for a little while. if you haven't, you're missing out.
hell yes, you're missing out.
being in love is like an insane adrenaline rush with your best friend. how can you not get caught up in that?
believe it or not, we don't "need" anything. that is only the spoiled brat in us trying to fill some temporary solution to an emptyness that does not exist.
I have eaten so much gold I crapped excellence - drtyfrnk29
Life is either a daring adventure or nothing at all!
I'd like to know why saying that someone doesn't have experience is considered condescending. Tell me. Am I supposed to withhold information so that you don't feel like I'm talking DOWN to you?
Because you measured the level of love a person has felt by means of determining whether they've been "obsessed" or they don't think about other people. So by saying this, you're saying that if I've never been obsessed or forgotten other people, I haven't been "as" in love as someone who has. How can you measure something like that? How can you assume that other people would have the same reaction to love as others? Also I think it is rather simplistic, and yes condescending in the sense that I think of it, to assume that if someone disagrees with you it means they don't have experience/knowledge, and if they did, they would surely agree with you.
I'm pretty well exhausted just reading this thread!
I'm quite happy single. I have married friends, friends in committed relationships....both good and bad (don't get my started on my best friend Steve). I am by far not insulted if my friends don't answer their phone when I call or if they only leave me a message, if they don't call back, etc. I'm quite understanding that they have their priorities....I certainly have mine.
At this point in my dating life, I'm not up for anything committed. And I'm blunt about that. I'm not out looking for one night stands either....just happy to meet new people. I've dated men who expected me to keep my time free for them when they were available. Sorry, I keep myself busy. You want to make plans? Ask, don't expect me to be sitting on my ass on a Saturday night, waiting for you to call. However, being in a committed relationship, I'd want to spend time with him and would seek to make plans with him (at least I'd hope so, I kind of shudder at the thought at the moment!). Would I make plans with friends then drop them if he wanted to do something? Emphatic "no" there, people. committed or not, I don't break plans with my friends. I have a standing date with my mom on Thursdays. Unless he's got tickets to a game or something that can't be changed, Thursdays are with my mom. If a guy were to grow to be important enough in my life, he might get invited to my mom's for dinner....he fucks that up and it's over.
well let's get crazy for a moment here and say you fall head over heels in love, swoon for a guy. i know, just work with me.
you don't think ot's possible that YOU might want to spend every. free. moment. with him. at first? maybe you wouldn't. idk. we are after all adults now, not in HS. and most of us have been there, done that. thing is, you already say how you'd give friends a pass for being momentarily distracted by the shiny new dick in their bed ....so that really is it. it's cutting friends slack b/c you understand.
i'd not blow off plans...but sur, i'd probably not make as many plans with said friends as usual, simply b/c i am all cuaght up by my shiny new guy i am in love with. or, if i do have hard and fast plans...yea...he'd know and understand...b/c he is falling for me too. so many ways for this scenario to play out.
just sayin that t the start of committed relationships - and the 'committed' part implies a lot from the get-go - most of us appreciate how that will play out in our other relationships. every time my sister got a new BF, knew we wouldn't see/hear much of her for awhile, then we'd go thru the 'breaking in' phase of the new BF with the family...and when they broke up, i'd see/hear from her a LOT more. i've done the same. friends have done the same. yada yada yada. and it's not the end of the world.
I'd like to know why saying that someone doesn't have experience is considered condescending. Tell me. Am I supposed to withhold information so that you don't feel like I'm talking DOWN to you?
Because you measured the level of love a person has felt by means of determining whether they've been "obsessed" or they don't think about other people. So by saying this, you're saying that if I've never been obsessed or forgotten other people, I haven't been "as" in love as someone who has. How can you measure something like that? How can you assume that other people would have the same reaction to love as others? Also I think it is rather simplistic, and yes condescending in the sense that I think of it, to assume that if someone disagrees with you it means they don't have experience/knowledge, and if they did, they would surely agree with you.
Ok. That explanation seems reasonable.
I didn't realize that my comments had those assumptions in them. I guess I WAS using what I felt was an understandable human experience to try to strengthen an alternate position.
Lauri, have you ever been so in love that you are obsessed with the person? Have you ever been so in love that you don't really care about thinking about other people?
If you haven't, can you see how your lack of experience might make you more likely to be upset when people get like this?
I'd like to know why saying that someone doesn't have experience is considered condescending. Tell me. Am I supposed to withhold information so that you don't feel like I'm talking DOWN to you?
Because you measured the level of love a person has felt by means of determining whether they've been "obsessed" or they don't think about other people. So by saying this, you're saying that if I've never been obsessed or forgotten other people, I haven't been "as" in love as someone who has. How can you measure something like that? How can you assume that other people would have the same reaction to love as others? Also I think it is rather simplistic, and yes condescending in the sense that I think of it, to assume that if someone disagrees with you it means they don't have experience/knowledge, and if they did, they would surely agree with you.
she asked if you ever had that particular experience.
then said, if you hadn't...could you possibly understand how then it would impair your ability to empathize with the situation?
that's not condescending.
if you've not experienced it firsthand, you'd not really know how it feels, thus would impair your comprehension of it. no measuring there.
also, it's not so odd...there are numerous psych studies on love, relationships, stages and behaviors. what she wrote of is fairly common.
given that most people seem to identify with what justam said, conor said....i think it's not an uncommon reaction to a new relationship. it may not be your reaction, and that doesn't mean anything either...just that it's a common reaction to get so swept up in someone new that all else just seems to 'not matter'...and no, of course, that doesn't mean you stop paying bills or going to work...just that, what you used to do with your other time, well now there is the new and exciting person in your life...and maybe you 'forget' to treutrn your best friend's call right away, or your moms...and yea, sometimes you don't get together with your friends or your family as much....at first...and ya know what? they understand. b/c most of them have been there, done that. for most, it's a joke, shorthand....almost expected. maybe not for you, fine. but for a LOT of us, it's our experiences and those we know and love...and we get on with it. in time, the shiny/new factor wears off, we settle in, settle down, and reembrace our 'regular life'...and if this person is importnat to us, we incorporate him or her more in our regular life instead of just focusing on them. it really is a natural part of the psychological start of a romantic relationship. hell, even a shiny new friend can be similar.
I'm really sorry, but I still don't think it justifies treating people as if they are less important. I don't think anyone is going to change my mind. I know that when I've started new relationships, I've made an effort to make sure that doesn't happen. I think that's the issue. Many have suggested that the dumpee make an effort to adapt to the dumper's new relationship. But no one has suggested that the dumper make any kind of such effort. If you add another important person to your life, it's going to take some extra effort on your part too, if not moreso than your friend's because you're the one who's made the change. Someone who doesn't make that effort isn't a real friend in my book.
When I started seeing my last boyfriend, time was very limited for me due to work. I didn't have too many free nights. But before I had met him, I had a standing weekly dinner with a group of friends. I continued to go to those dinners, even if it meant not getting to see my new boyfriend. I'd invite him to come, but being as they were my friends, sometimes he didn't want to. It's all about commitment. We've discussed being committed to a romantic partner, but to me a commitment is a commitment, and a new boyfriend or life long spouse just doesn't trump my commitment to my friends. You know there's also the golden rule, "do unto others..."
hell yes, you're missing out.
being in love is like an insane adrenaline rush with your best friend. how can you not get caught up in that?
see?
you still have heart in there.
shhhhh.....don't tell anyone....
I'm with ya! I'm understanding of it. If I weren't, I certainly wouldn't be friends with a few of my closest friends now. They certainly understand when I do have the shiny new dick in my bed. and I ain't talking about the latest delivery from A&E.
believe it or not, we don't "need" anything. that is only the spoiled brat in us trying to fill some temporary solution to an emptyness that does not exist.
I have eaten so much gold I crapped excellence - drtyfrnk29
Life is either a daring adventure or nothing at all!
she asked if you ever had that particular experience.
then said, if you hadn't...could you possibly understand how then it would impair your ability to empathize with the situation?
that's not condescending.
if you've not experienced it firsthand, you'd not really know how it feels, thus would impair your comprehension of it. no measuring there.
also, it's not so odd...there are numerous psych studies on love, relationships, stages and behaviors. what she wrote of is fairly common.
thing is, i am NOT trying to change your mind. i think what you think is a-ok for you. thing is, you seem to present this pov of yours like it is the one right way, like we all should view relationships as you do, we should respect your pov. i do respect it. i only ask the same. you don't see it, fair enough...but really...i don't think my horizons need broadening or acceptance on this issue. i think ypu might want to look into it tho. but yes, of course, feel free to disregard. i am only someone on the internet. perhaps discuss with your friends, hopefully they think just as you do if they are so important to you.
given that most people seem to identify with what justam said, conor said....i think it's not an uncommon reaction to a new relationship. it may not be your reaction, and that doesn't mean anything either...just that it's a common reaction to get so swept up in someone new that all else just seems to 'not matter'...and no, of course, that doesn't mean you stop paying bills or going to work...just that, what you used to do with your other time, well now there is the new and exciting person in your life...and maybe you 'forget' to treutrn your best friend's call right away, or your moms...and yea, sometimes you don't get together with your friends or your family as much....at first...and ya know what? they understand. b/c most of them have been there, done that. for most, it's a joke, shorthand....almost expected. maybe not for you, fine. but for a LOT of us, it's our experiences and those we know and love...and we get on with it. in time, the shiny/new factor wears off, we settle in, settle down, and reembrace our 'regular life'...and if this person is importnat to us, we incorporate him or her more in our regular life instead of just focusing on them. it really is a natural part of the psychological start of a romantic relationship. hell, even a shiny new friend can be similar.
I'm really sorry, but I still don't think it justifies treating people as if they are less important. I don't think anyone is going to change my mind. I know that when I've started new relationships, I've made an effort to make sure that doesn't happen. I think that's the issue. Many have suggested that the dumpee make an effort to adapt to the dumper's new relationship. But no one has suggested that the dumper make any kind of such effort. If you add another important person to your life, it's going to take some extra effort on your part too, if not moreso than your friend's because you're the one who's made the change. Someone who doesn't make that effort isn't a real friend in my book.
When I started seeing my last boyfriend, time was very limited for me due to work. I didn't have too many free nights. But before I had met him, I had a standing weekly dinner with a group of friends. I continued to go to those dinners, even if it meant not getting to see my new boyfriend. I'd invite him to come, but being as they were my friends, sometimes he didn't want to. It's all about commitment. We've discussed being committed to a romantic partner, but to me a commitment is a commitment, and a new boyfriend or life long spouse just doesn't trump my commitment to my friends. You know there's also the golden rule, "do unto others..."
btw - i saw your explanation above re justams post. i still stand by my own assessment. i am a-ok with agreeing to disagree.
Comments
I completely agree with this. Go ahead and adapt! adapt! Adapt to changes in your circumstances or your friend's. But I say, don't feel obligated to adapt to downright nasty behavior from your friend. Drop the Leash said that he "doesn't fucking exist" to his friend. His friend has shown him that he is of no importance to him. We don't really know much else about this, but if Drop the Leash's friend has said, "hey sorry, dude, I can't hang out friday because I already promised my girlfriend I would go out with her, but let's hang out saturday instead." Ok, that pretty much calls for adaptation. But if Drop the Leash's friend doesn't make an effort to see him, reschedules every time they make plans, clearly demonstrates that his girlfriend is more important than he is, etc., then Drop the Leash doesn't have to adapt to anything because his friend has basically ended the friendship. It's not up to Drop the Leash. I don't really think that Drop the Leash should wait around and hope that is friend comes to his senses, OR that he should make concessions himself to accommodate his friend when his friend isn't making that kind of effort. Friendship is a two-way street, regardless if whether one of the people is coupled or anything else. I guarantee that some day his friend will realize that he needs him, and it's Drop the Leash's decision whether he wants his friend to learn something or whether he goes back to him, but in my opinion, the former is justifiable if you've been treated like shit.
btw - there is NO one, and i truly mean no one...who would ever do ALL the things my husband does for me. there are many people who do some of the things he does, but not anywhere near all. really, he's just time efficient.
i LOVE that line.
that whole tune...*swoons*..such a tribute to 'significant others'...hahaha.
seriously, we are childless, i imagine more non-traditional family/friends gatherings as we age...even amongst many 'traditional' families, i see more and more non-tradtional ways of gathering together. no one is saying there is 'one right way'...and certainly not to the detriment of friendship. it's just life. single or coupled...getting older changes a lot of things. hell, even when i was single....my friendships grew/changed a LOT. that's the stuff of living. if your friendships mean so much to you, you roll with it. i mentioned earlier seeing one of my BEST friends, a friendship over 20+ years...saw her for the first time in 6 years...and how awesome it was. ad you bet, neither one of us felt let out, or tossed aside...it's how both our lives have traversed...and yes, she is single and i am not...but she probably is busier than me!
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
well as I said before it seems like you are using a scorecard to count the friendship. can you tell me how long for someone not to call you do you consider them treating you like shit and not your friend anymore? I have friends I could go a year without speaking to but that doesn't mean I am no longer their friend or wouldn't be there for them when needed. Again a true friend will be there when needed whether thats a day, month, or year. Clearly your thoughts are different than mine and many others on here - I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
If you haven't, can you see how your lack of experience might make you more likely to be upset when people get like this?
*reminisces*
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
well said. it's about quality, not quantity. i understand when my friends have priorities other than mine and i dont judge by how much time they have for me but by how the time we spend together is. almost all of my friends in the city i just moved to are in committed relationships. i don't begrudge them that or act jilted by that. nor do i insult them by telling them they're part of some insidious misogynistic patriarchy for it. i go out and meet other people, focus on work, or kick back and read a book.
exactly. i was like this for a long time myself...
i should stop posting in this thread now becos i think the 3 of you have said everything i intended to much better than i did
no no, I'm not using scorecards of any kind. It's not as cut-and-dry as waiting a specified amount of time for someone to call, and that might not even be the issue. You can tell when a friend has pulled themselves out of the picture. I don't think we're really in that much disagreement here. I just don't think that it's right to treat your friends badly for any reason. It's not a matter of not just being busier. Say Drop the Leash's friend joins a basketball team and now he can't hang out on Friday nights because he has games. Now maybe they hang out another time or something. Maybe Drop the Leash is on a hockey team and they have no time to hang out for a while, ok, as long as they both still care about the other person. What it seems like has happened- and what seems to happen a lot in the case of leaving a friend for a partner- is that Drop the Leash's friend really just doesn't care about him anymore. He thinks he doesn't need a friend because he has a girlfriend. If that's really the case, then you know when it's happened, and you know it's not up to you. To say that the guy should "adapt" to this says to me he should let his friend treat him like a doormat, and that his friend's behavior is acceptable because he ditched him for a girl. I'm not looking at it in terms of cut and dry scenario with a score.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Yay! the condescension twins have arrived!
Yes, I have been in love, no I have never not cared about other people. I hope I never have that experience, and I don't think someone who does is justified in treating other people badly.
i also think this is an excellent question for the OP.
empathy and life experience greatly aids understanding oftentimes. we are a lot more tolerant when it's something we have experienced and know, and thus cut more slack.
obviously, if a friend is outta hand and taken too far...there are always points in some friendships that you realize, the friendship isn't worth it...and it's not even always related to such scenarios. for most of us tho, what the OP posted is mostly the growing pains of growing up.
man, i remember those first loves!
the drama!
the excitement!
the sex!
all the firsts - whoa....
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
i don't think it seems like that at all. like d2d said, everyone i know has gone through this in hs and/or college at some point. people get caught up in the excitement of a first love or the excitement of getting laid often and swoon. they snap out of it eventually (likely when the gf/bf rips your poor friend's heart out, hehe), and things go on as they were before. it's no different from your analogy of them getting caught up in a passion for diff sports and not seeing each other much for a while. he shouldn't let something like this derail a friendship that means something to him, becos what's going on is not nearly so malicious as you pretend.
she didnt say not care about other people, she said not care about thinking about them for a while. you get caught up, and all else falls by the wayside for a little while. if you haven't, you're missing out.
I'd like to know why saying that someone doesn't have experience is considered condescending. Tell me. Am I supposed to withhold information so that you don't feel like I'm talking DOWN to you?
But we all seem to disagree on what it means to treat a friend badly. I'm sorry but I think treating some who is close enough to be a brother as if they don't exist can be considered "badly." Granted Drop the Leash could be overreacting, and yeah, I take him to be fairly young. I'm just assuming that we can all agree that treating someone like they don't exist is bad, regardless of whether that's what's really happen in Drop the Leash's particular example. We're all speaking theoretically here. A lot of people here seem to think that it's ok to treat your friends "like they don't exist" if your reason for it is finding a girlfriend. I don't think that comes close to justifying it.
:thumbup:
seriously!
just about every romantic relationship i've had, and amongst any that i know of involving friends/family...all the same. it's new! it's exciting! you're falling in love! you get swept away! i'ts not malicious, it's not purposeful...and soon enough you realize....
and again, i am not really speaking to drop's individual scenario. i don't think most of us are/were at this point. treating someone like they don't exist is never cool. i think most of us took it to mean in an overal dissatisfaction. not literally. i think drop never really clarified further. i think mot of us have been in drop's position...and his friend's...that's all. see both sides. again, if the friend really is being a prick, well alrighty..time to move on, not a real friend. however, i'd more than likely guess..it's the temporary beginnings, and most of us simply identify. with both sides. it's simply a life phase, and not something to take personally.
we got into a WHOLE lot more than just drop's situation. :P
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Well I don't understand what you mean by this, because I don't really walk around "thinking about" other people to start with. What do you mean? Do you mean forgetting people's birthdays or something like that?
Nope, never gotten so "caught up" that the rest of my life "falls by the wayside." I've been pretty damn infatuated at times, day dreaming about someone I've started seeing, things like that. But I still manage to function and show up at work and pay my bills and see my friends.
You can claim I'm "missing out" on something, but I really don't think I am, and honestly, do we really think we're going to clearly understand how complete strangers we've just been typing with are going to feel deep down when they're in a relationship? And judge them if they don't have the same feelings and reactions that we do? How can you possibly know what feelings I'm missing out on? How do you know I'm not having better feelings that you're not!
I'm quite happy single. I have married friends, friends in committed relationships....both good and bad (don't get my started on my best friend Steve). I am by far not insulted if my friends don't answer their phone when I call or if they only leave me a message, if they don't call back, etc. I'm quite understanding that they have their priorities....I certainly have mine.
At this point in my dating life, I'm not up for anything committed. And I'm blunt about that. I'm not out looking for one night stands either....just happy to meet new people. I've dated men who expected me to keep my time free for them when they were available. Sorry, I keep myself busy. You want to make plans? Ask, don't expect me to be sitting on my ass on a Saturday night, waiting for you to call. However, being in a committed relationship, I'd want to spend time with him and would seek to make plans with him (at least I'd hope so, I kind of shudder at the thought at the moment!). Would I make plans with friends then drop them if he wanted to do something? Emphatic "no" there, people. committed or not, I don't break plans with my friends. I have a standing date with my mom on Thursdays. Unless he's got tickets to a game or something that can't be changed, Thursdays are with my mom. If a guy were to grow to be important enough in my life, he might get invited to my mom's for dinner....he fucks that up and it's over.
I have eaten so much gold I crapped excellence - drtyfrnk29
Life is either a daring adventure or nothing at all!
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
hell yes, you're missing out.
being in love is like an insane adrenaline rush with your best friend. how can you not get caught up in that?
I have eaten so much gold I crapped excellence - drtyfrnk29
Life is either a daring adventure or nothing at all!
Because you measured the level of love a person has felt by means of determining whether they've been "obsessed" or they don't think about other people. So by saying this, you're saying that if I've never been obsessed or forgotten other people, I haven't been "as" in love as someone who has. How can you measure something like that? How can you assume that other people would have the same reaction to love as others? Also I think it is rather simplistic, and yes condescending in the sense that I think of it, to assume that if someone disagrees with you it means they don't have experience/knowledge, and if they did, they would surely agree with you.
well let's get crazy for a moment here and say you fall head over heels in love, swoon for a guy. i know, just work with me.
you don't think ot's possible that YOU might want to spend every. free. moment. with him. at first? maybe you wouldn't. idk. we are after all adults now, not in HS. and most of us have been there, done that. thing is, you already say how you'd give friends a pass for being momentarily distracted by the shiny new dick in their bed
i'd not blow off plans...but sur, i'd probably not make as many plans with said friends as usual, simply b/c i am all cuaght up by my shiny new guy i am in love with. or, if i do have hard and fast plans...yea...he'd know and understand...b/c he is falling for me too. so many ways for this scenario to play out.
just sayin that t the start of committed relationships - and the 'committed' part implies a lot from the get-go - most of us appreciate how that will play out in our other relationships. every time my sister got a new BF, knew we wouldn't see/hear much of her for awhile, then we'd go thru the 'breaking in' phase of the new BF with the family...and when they broke up, i'd see/hear from her a LOT more. i've done the same. friends have done the same. yada yada yada. and it's not the end of the world.
see?
you still have heart in there.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Ok. That explanation seems reasonable.
I didn't realize that my comments had those assumptions in them. I guess I WAS using what I felt was an understandable human experience to try to strengthen an alternate position.
she asked if you ever had that particular experience.
then said, if you hadn't...could you possibly understand how then it would impair your ability to empathize with the situation?
that's not condescending.
if you've not experienced it firsthand, you'd not really know how it feels, thus would impair your comprehension of it. no measuring there.
also, it's not so odd...there are numerous psych studies on love, relationships, stages and behaviors. what she wrote of is fairly common.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
I'm really sorry, but I still don't think it justifies treating people as if they are less important. I don't think anyone is going to change my mind. I know that when I've started new relationships, I've made an effort to make sure that doesn't happen. I think that's the issue. Many have suggested that the dumpee make an effort to adapt to the dumper's new relationship. But no one has suggested that the dumper make any kind of such effort. If you add another important person to your life, it's going to take some extra effort on your part too, if not moreso than your friend's because you're the one who's made the change. Someone who doesn't make that effort isn't a real friend in my book.
When I started seeing my last boyfriend, time was very limited for me due to work. I didn't have too many free nights. But before I had met him, I had a standing weekly dinner with a group of friends. I continued to go to those dinners, even if it meant not getting to see my new boyfriend. I'd invite him to come, but being as they were my friends, sometimes he didn't want to. It's all about commitment. We've discussed being committed to a romantic partner, but to me a commitment is a commitment, and a new boyfriend or life long spouse just doesn't trump my commitment to my friends. You know there's also the golden rule, "do unto others..."
shhhhh.....don't tell anyone....
I'm with ya! I'm understanding of it. If I weren't, I certainly wouldn't be friends with a few of my closest friends now. They certainly understand when I do have the shiny new dick in my bed. and I ain't talking about the latest delivery from A&E.
I have eaten so much gold I crapped excellence - drtyfrnk29
Life is either a daring adventure or nothing at all!
See my explanation above.
btw - i saw your explanation above re justams post. i still stand by my own assessment. i am a-ok with agreeing to disagree.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow