hell yes, you're missing out.
being in love is like an insane adrenaline rush with your best friend. how can you not get caught up in that?
see?
you still have heart in there.
shhhhh.....don't tell anyone....
I'm with ya! I'm understanding of it. If I weren't, I certainly wouldn't be friends with a few of my closest friends now. They certainly understand when I do have the shiny new dick in my bed. and I ain't talking about the latest delivery from A&E.
exactly.
dinner with me...or shiny new dick?
no contest.
i'm your friend, and i'll still be here...whether you marry the new dick, kick it to the curb, or just keep it in rotation. that;s life, relationships, friendships. i know i am still a beloved friend, i don't need you to prove it to me endlessly, just when it counts.
exactly.
dinner with me...or shiny new dick?
no contest.
i'm your friend, and i'll still be here...whether you marry the new dick, kick it to the curb, or just keep it in rotation. that;s life, relationships, friendships. i know i am still a beloved friend, i don't need you to prove it to me endlessly, just when it counts.
and that, mi amigo, sums it up perfectly!
I'm going to keep going with the rotation for a bit....
believe it or not, we don't "need" anything. that is only the spoiled brat in us trying to fill some temporary solution to an emptyness that does not exist.
I have eaten so much gold I crapped excellence - drtyfrnk29
Life is either a daring adventure or nothing at all!
exactly.
dinner with me...or shiny new dick?
no contest.
i'm your friend, and i'll still be here...whether you marry the new dick, kick it to the curb, or just keep it in rotation. that;s life, relationships, friendships. i know i am still a beloved friend, i don't need you to prove it to me endlessly, just when it counts.
and that, mi amigo, sums it up perfectly!
I'm going to keep going with the rotation for a bit....
haha. right.
no one is advocating treating friends like shit. just pointing out - what i thought was - the obvious. it's like an unspoken understanding amongst friends. when first in love, all bets are off. real friends understand, and don't feel slighted. obviously, if the issue goes beyond this, to true neglect, another story...but the usual i am crazy-in-love-can't-get-enough-of -this-person scenario plays out...well...it plays out. friendships intact. the crazy-in-love, may or may not. all depends. honestly, i never really experienced, nor seen anyone else, any other way. c'est la vie....
those beginnings....man....what FUN!
christ.
you can recapture it a bit from time to time....but yea...the start is always just soooooo intoxicating.
*swoons*
but really...i don't think my horizons need broadening or acceptance on this issue. i think ypu might want to look into it tho.
You don't think your horizons need broadening, but mine do...riiight. How do you know my horizons aren't as broad as they come, or that your's aren't very limited?
Sorry but you can't say you respect my opinion and then tell me I should go broaden my horizons...yeah if you "respected" my opinion you wouldn't also think it's uninformed. Just saying things like, "I respect your opinion" and "agree to disagree" doesn't mean you actually mean it, especially when you pretty much say you don't right in the next breath.
but really...i don't think my horizons need broadening or acceptance on this issue. i think ypu might want to look into it tho.
You don't think your horizons need broadening, but mine do...riiight. How do you know my horizons aren't as broad as they come, or that your's aren't very limited?
Sorry but you can't say you respect my opinion and then tell me I should go broaden my horizons...yeah if you "respected" my opinion you wouldn't also think it's uninformed. Just saying things like, "I respect your opinion" and "agree to disagree" doesn't mean you actually mean it, especially when you pretty much say you don't right in the next breath.
b/c i am saying i respect your opinion. i don't think your'e wrong..and yet, you seem to suggest that my pov is wrong. thus, why i believe you might possibly broaden your horizons there. that's all.
or not. :P
seriously, i really don't care what you think. honest.
this is enjoyable discussion for me.
i DO agree...to disagree!
ii do disgaree with much that you say here, and i agree that it's a-ok! i am not trying to 'convince' you, at all. i don't waste my time trying to convince anyone of anything, especially when they have no bearing on my own life, influence on it, or are not someone i love/care about. it's good convo tho. your opinions do interest me, simply b/c they run so counter to my own. but no, i take none of it 'personally.'
i am understood by those i care about, that's all i need.
and even here, i feel 'understood' enough to not feel crazy, so it's all good. and i seriously do hope you maintain the kind of friendships and relationships you desire, it's what we all hope for and hopefully achieve. being understood and respected in kind, it's the best we can have..committed relationships, friendships, family, all of it.
btw - where did i ever say your pov was uninformed? i didn't. i only advocate 'accepting' many of the povs you are dismissing here, just like you want us to accept yours. i accept it. i could not live by it, but i do accept it as valid. of course it is.
it's like an unspoken understanding amongst friends. when first in love, all bets are off.
Good lord woman! I'm glad I'm not in your circle of friends! Love is not a mental illness. It's not like pleading insanity. You can't do things you know are wrong and say, oh well, I was in love for a bit there and expect people to just put it out of their minds. In one breath you say that it's never ok to "treat someone like shit" and then in the next you say, "but if you're in a new relationship all bets are off." Treating a friend like they "don't fucking exist" is treating someone like shit. If you disagree with that...I don't know what to say. If you agree with that, then it can't be justified just by being "in love," by your own admission.
btw - where did i ever say your pov was uninformed? i didn't. i only advocate 'accepting' many of the povs you are dismissing here, just like you want us to accept yours. i accept it. i could not live by it, but i do accept it as valid. of course it is.
you said I should think about broadening my horizons.
And I sound like my opinions are "right" because we're arguing here. You don't submit an op-ed to the Times and say, "well I don't know what I'm talking about, and I'm not going to back up anything I say, because these are just opinions and I don't want anyone to understand my point. I don't know why I'm bothering to write an op-ed." Of course they're my "opinions" but I'm trying to make a point. If it comes off to you as if I'm asserting I'm right, then I'm doing my job in the debate.
it's like an unspoken understanding amongst friends. when first in love, all bets are off.
Good lord woman! I'm glad I'm not in your circle of friends! Love is not a mental illness. It's not like pleading insanity. You can't do things you know are wrong and say, oh well, I was in love for a bit there and expect people to just put it out of their minds. In one breath you say that it's never ok to "treat someone like shit" and then in the next you say, "but if you're in a new relationship all bets are off." Treating a friend like they "don't fucking exist" is treating someone like shit. If you disagree with that...I don't know what to say. If you agree with that, then it can't be justified just by being "in love," by your own admission.
good lord woman!
hahaha.
ditto.
my friends know i have their back and love them.
sorry if you don't understand my shorthand. 'all bets are off' does not imply treating friends like shit. i've never treated a friend like shit. i have however, not hung out with them as often when in a new love. they've done the same. we all understand each other. you and i, thankfully, don't have to. i've never treated a friend like they don't fucking exist. you might want to actually read what people post before making assumptions on their ideas. that's all.
whiz...justam...conor....pjhawks...etc...thanks for making me feel sane.
crazy love is FUN, and good friends understand!
broadening horizons = uninformed opinions?
we clearly speak a different vocabulary. eh well.
it's like an unspoken understanding amongst friends. when first in love, all bets are off.
Good lord woman! I'm glad I'm not in your circle of friends! Love is not a mental illness. It's not like pleading insanity. You can't do things you know are wrong and say, oh well, I was in love for a bit there and expect people to just put it out of their minds. In one breath you say that it's never ok to "treat someone like shit" and then in the next you say, "but if you're in a new relationship all bets are off." Treating a friend like they "don't fucking exist" is treating someone like shit. If you disagree with that...I don't know what to say. If you agree with that, then it can't be justified just by being "in love," by your own admission.
You accused me of being condescending and then you talk to decides2dream like THIS?
You're making me sorry I let you off so easily. :geek:
i've never treated a friend like they don't fucking exist. you might want to actually read what people post before making assumptions on their ideas. that's all.
This entire thread is based on one guy treating another guy like he "doesn't fucking exist." What didn't I read?
broadening horizons = uninformed opinions?
we clearly speak a different vocabulary. eh well.
well did you mean then? You said that your horizons don't need to be broadened but mine do. I took that is you claiming that you are more experienced/have seen more/are more knowledgeable about the situation than I am.
it's like an unspoken understanding amongst friends. when first in love, all bets are off.
Good lord woman! I'm glad I'm not in your circle of friends! Love is not a mental illness. It's not like pleading insanity. You can't do things you know are wrong and say, oh well, I was in love for a bit there and expect people to just put it out of their minds. In one breath you say that it's never ok to "treat someone like shit" and then in the next you say, "but if you're in a new relationship all bets are off." Treating a friend like they "don't fucking exist" is treating someone like shit. If you disagree with that...I don't know what to say. If you agree with that, then it can't be justified just by being "in love," by your own admission.
You accused me of being condescending and then you talk to decidestodream like THIS?
You're making me sorry I let you off so easily. :geek:
*beso*
its been fun kiddies...and again, i appreciate those who understand me. i think i'm clear, but i know at times i am not. and so it goes. it's ok. AM, you said it earlier...you know, your 'condescending' post ...that's exactly IT to me. so i know you get it. many of us do. some won't. no biggie. we can't all see the world thru the same lens, and thus we all will have different pov. cool. that's what makes this world so damn interesting....
time to dream, seeya all around the bend!
tomorrow, one more day of work...then, holiday/vacation....time with friends and family....love of my life...it's all good!
and to drop the leash, don't let your friend get you down. if he REALLY is a friend, he'll see the error of his ways if he is truly treating you wrong...and if he isn't, you'll see that too. because you're friends. and sure, hope everyone gets laid.
*beso*
its been fun kiddies...and again, i appreciate those who understand me. i think i'm clear, but i know at times i am not. and so it goes. it's ok. AM, you said it earlier...you know, your 'condescending' post ...that's exactly IT to me. so i know you get it. many of us do. some won't. no biggie. we can't all see the world thru the same lens, and thus we all will have different pov. cool. that's what makes this world so damn interesting....
time to dream, seeya all around the bend!
tomorrow, one more day of work...then, holiday/vacation....time with friends and family....love of my life...it's all good!
and to drop the leash, don't let your friend get you down. if he REALLY is a friend, he'll see the error of his ways if he is truly treating you wrong...and if he isn't, you'll see that too. because you're friends. and sure, hope everyone gets laid.
nighty-nite!
Oh yes, I know this tactic. Spew a lot of touchy-feely, meaningless mumbo-jumbo as the "last word" so everyone who reads this will think you somehow "won" an argument, and then take off. I think that's how W got elected.
What it seems like has happened- and what seems to happen a lot in the case of leaving a friend for a partner- is that Drop the Leash's friend really just doesn't care about him anymore. He thinks he doesn't need a friend because he has a girlfriend. If that's really the case, then you know when it's happened, and you know it's not up to you. To say that the guy should "adapt" to this says to me he should let his friend treat him like a doormat, and that his friend's behavior is acceptable because he ditched him for a girl. I'm not looking at it in terms of cut and dry scenario with a score.
i don't think it seems like that at all. like d2d said, everyone i know has gone through this in hs and/or college at some point. people get caught up in the excitement of a first love or the excitement of getting laid often and swoon. they snap out of it eventually (likely when the gf/bf rips your poor friend's heart out, hehe), and things go on as they were before. it's no different from your analogy of them getting caught up in a passion for diff sports and not seeing each other much for a while. he shouldn't let something like this derail a friendship that means something to him, becos what's going on is not nearly so malicious as you pretend.
I missed this somehow. I can relate to Drop the Leash, but not to his friend. I've never done this to anyone. As I said, I make an effort to make sure my friends aren't left behind when I meet someone else. I think a good person is just cognesente of it. If you're a good friend, you keep your friends in mind and try not to get too caught up in yourself. If you are lucky your romantic partner will help with that too. I've had it done to me though, to varying degrees of severity. In one case, I did not wait around for the friend to "snap out of it." I was tired of being there for someone who was never there for me. In other less severe cases, things didn't "go on as they did before." Something is always different after you learn someone's true colors. To me, when a friend does this, it's basically saying, "I'm just hanging out with you until someone I can sleep with comes along." That kind of message is hard to take back.
And I wish I could tell Drop the Leash that this improves with age, but it really doesn't. It's not just high school and college. Actually I think it gets worse in some ways. I kept in better touch with my friends when I was out of the country than some of them do once they "pair up." But, they do of course come out of the woodwork when there is some sort of favor needed. I think it's also a big reason why people enter into relationships that aren't very good- they don't want to be left behind. All of my friends could write me out of their lives completely and I still wouldn't do that, but I think it happens a lot.
soulsinging- I just saw your last post. I don't think anyone should really be judging the quality of others romantic relationships here. I have been in love, and I doubt that any two people experience that the same way. Just because my experience has been different than your's doesn't mean I haven't had the experience. What was described in terms of being "obsessed" and "not being able to think about other people" sounded much more like "infatuation" than love to me. That is how I have experienced things and how I understood the post. I don't think that you have the right to judge the feelings I've had for people as somehow less meaningful or strong or whatever than the feelings that you have had.
I'm frustrated about everything? I definitely got frustrated tonight in this thread. It was just something I felt passionate about, and I felt like some people were more interested in picking arguments than actually reading what was being said. I do find that frustrating. I unfortunately have not been able to power down and go to bed. I can't seem to stop thinking and typing.
Regarding the meat of this thread, not the initial post...casual boyfriends and girlfriends aside, your spouse and kids should always take priority over friends and family....bottom line..and Lauri, that cannot be argued, even by you ..
'I want to hurry home to you
put on a slow, dumb show for you
and crack you up
so you can put a blue ribbon on my brain
god I'm very, very frightening
and I'll overdo it'
Regarding the meat of this thread, not the initial post...casual boyfriends and girlfriends aside, your spouse and kids should always take priority over friends and family....bottom line..and Lauri, that cannot be argued, even by you ..
Exactly...
I have had many a friend fall in love over the years......And all of a sudden that "best friend" disappears...
THATS A GOOD THING!!!!!!
He has moved on with his life......He has fallen in love....He would rather spend time with his lady than hanging out with the boys.......That makes plenty of sense to me.....
If he doesnt call me for 6 months...... a year.....2 years.....THATS FINE!!!!!
When we do get together....Hopefully it's like "Old Times"....
Take me piece by piece..... Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
What it seems like has happened- and what seems to happen a lot in the case of leaving a friend for a partner- is that Drop the Leash's friend really just doesn't care about him anymore. He thinks he doesn't need a friend because he has a girlfriend. If that's really the case, then you know when it's happened, and you know it's not up to you. To say that the guy should "adapt" to this says to me he should let his friend treat him like a doormat, and that his friend's behavior is acceptable because he ditched him for a girl. I'm not looking at it in terms of cut and dry scenario with a score.
i don't think it seems like that at all. like d2d said, everyone i know has gone through this in hs and/or college at some point. people get caught up in the excitement of a first love or the excitement of getting laid often and swoon. they snap out of it eventually (likely when the gf/bf rips your poor friend's heart out, hehe), and things go on as they were before. it's no different from your analogy of them getting caught up in a passion for diff sports and not seeing each other much for a while. he shouldn't let something like this derail a friendship that means something to him, becos what's going on is not nearly so malicious as you pretend.
I missed this somehow. I can relate to Drop the Leash, but not to his friend. I've never done this to anyone. As I said, I make an effort to make sure my friends aren't left behind when I meet someone else. I think a good person is just cognesente of it. If you're a good friend, you keep your friends in mind and try not to get too caught up in yourself. If you are lucky your romantic partner will help with that too. I've had it done to me though, to varying degrees of severity. In one case, I did not wait around for the friend to "snap out of it." I was tired of being there for someone who was never there for me. In other less severe cases, things didn't "go on as they did before." Something is always different after you learn someone's true colors. To me, when a friend does this, it's basically saying, "I'm just hanging out with you until someone I can sleep with comes along." That kind of message is hard to take back.
And I wish I could tell Drop the Leash that this improves with age, but it really doesn't. It's not just high school and college. Actually I think it gets worse in some ways. I kept in better touch with my friends when I was out of the country than some of them do once they "pair up." But, they do of course come out of the woodwork when there is some sort of favor needed. I think it's also a big reason why people enter into relationships that aren't very good- they don't want to be left behind. All of my friends could write me out of their lives completely and I still wouldn't do that, but I think it happens a lot.
soulsinging- I just saw your last post. I don't think anyone should really be judging the quality of others romantic relationships here. I have been in love, and I doubt that any two people experience that the same way. Just because my experience has been different than your's doesn't mean I haven't had the experience. What was described in terms of being "obsessed" and "not being able to think about other people" sounded much more like "infatuation" than love to me. That is how I have experienced things and how I understood the post. I don't think that you have the right to judge the feelings I've had for people as somehow less meaningful or strong or whatever than the feelings that you have had.
I'm frustrated about everything? I definitely got frustrated tonight in this thread. It was just something I felt passionate about, and I felt like some people were more interested in picking arguments than actually reading what was being said. I do find that frustrating. I unfortunately have not been able to power down and go to bed. I can't seem to stop thinking and typing.
again Lauri it seems you are defining friendships maybe differently than the rest of us which is surely your prerogative. As corny as it sounds, to me true friendship comes from the heart. it's not something as tangible as hanging out or returning phone calls. it's a feeling and is the difference between friends and acquaintences. as an example i have a guy i consider a friend but haven't talked to them in over a decade. we grew up together, went through high school, he met a girl from out of the country in college and essentially ran off with her - he has been in and out of the country and other states since then. nothing was done by either of us intentionally to harm our friendship. i still consider him a friend, the bond is still in the heart for me. I'm sure our paths will cross again and whey they do i'll still be his friend. on the other hand i have many acquaintences that i see on a much more regular basis but i don't consider them true friends per se. I can't really define how someone becomes a true friend anymore than you can explain how people fall in love. again not trying to put you down I just think you and the OP are defining things differently than the rest of us here.
honestly, i don't even think the OP is defininganything differently. he made one post and has he ever posted since? i think he is young and in a very common situation. friendships, all relationships...change...and they don't all change in the way everyone wants, exactly, or at predetermined time all have agreed upon. i think the OP was merely venting a very common occurance, especially in young adulthood....and yes, most especially when one is in the beginnings of a relationship. it IS common. the h'oneymoon' phase of a relationship is quite real, and very ordinary, thus why most are accepting of it. no one is suggesting acceptance of truly abhorrent behavior. most of us simply have been there and done that. if you haven't been there or done that, or cannot possibly see it from the friend's perspective, well sure...i can see how one might be angry or hurt. most of us realize it for what it is. thus why the numerous posts of 'get used to it'....meant in humor of course, but that in reality...there is truth to it.
if one believes they will never ever put a romantic partner, or even any human being, above anyone else....all good. just don't be surprised that many do not share the same way of living. no one is saying that's wrong, just that it simply is not the norm. it's almost a biological imperative for humans to pair up, form new family units and so on. doesn't mean you have to, just that many, many do....and have been. and yes, the bulk of this thread went waaaayyyyy beyond just the initial post in it's scope.
oh and apologies for ending the conversation when i did....i had to go to bed. :roll: hahaha. thus why i posted, didn't want to appear rude after being quite involved in the topic. no tactics, no trying to win, etc, etc. i thought i was having a pleasant discussion along with a few glasses of wine...i wasn't trying to convince anyone of anything. just sharing my perspective and interested in others. and yes, my husband came home so you bet, i dump you all in a heartbeat for him.
I missed this somehow. I can relate to Drop the Leash, but not to his friend. I've never done this to anyone. As I said, I make an effort to make sure my friends aren't left behind when I meet someone else. I think a good person is just cognesente of it. If you're a good friend, you keep your friends in mind and try not to get too caught up in yourself. If you are lucky your romantic partner will help with that too. I've had it done to me though, to varying degrees of severity. In one case, I did not wait around for the friend to "snap out of it." I was tired of being there for someone who was never there for me. In other less severe cases, things didn't "go on as they did before." Something is always different after you learn someone's true colors. To me, when a friend does this, it's basically saying, "I'm just hanging out with you until someone I can sleep with comes along." That kind of message is hard to take back.
Yeah, you're not keeping scorecards on your friends at all. :roll: If they blow off your wedding or your parents' funeral, maybe you have a point. But short of that, the fact that they're too busy seeing the exciting new person in their life for weekly drinks with you does not count as not being there for you. Maybe the problem is not that the friends are showing their true colors, but that YOU are too wrapped up in YOURSELF to be happy for the joy and excitement in your friend's life because you're not getting what you want from them.
And did you ever think that what's really being said by your friend is to the new person and not to you and goes more like "hey, i'm only spending so much time with you becos you're new and the sex is hot. once the passion fades, i'm back out with the friends."
btw - have you ever had a relationship that has gone on exactly as before? ever?
i never have!
people change!
lives change!
relationships or not...i've not had a friendship, a romantic partnership...hell, even a familial relationship remain stagnant and unchanged.
i am cognizant of my friends and family, but that does not mean i have to live my life making all my new plans with them in mind. nor do i expect them to either. even being blown off once or twice, i don't chalk that up to being a 'bad person'...i realize it for what it is, being caught up in the excitement of a new person. who knows, possibly a life partner...who will add to my friend or family members lifetime happiness, and maybe mine as well, if we all stay in each other's lives. we're not talking about blowing someone off, continually, for 6 months to a year...we're talking the usual - missing a few phone calls, not getting together as often, yada yada yada. i'm glad my friends and family do not define my worthiness in such strict terms. i sure as shit don't for them, either. that's real love imo. i accept them, faults and all...aware we're all a bit different and that we have to persue our own paths. i may not always be a priority on that path with em, but as long as i know they still love and value me, it's all good.
ever have a friend get a shiny new job, and they have to work like mad...and have no time for you? did it make you angry? no? why? b/c they 'had' to? well, if that's ok, not seen as 'selfish'...since really, they are only thinking of their own future career when they behave as such, why is it so wrong for one to willingly choose to be with the shiny new love in their life? all they are trying to do is invest in a possible future relationship that will add to their lives. or yea, maybe they simply want to strike while the iron is hot and simply get laid. point is, we have to embrace opportunities when they arrive, to work on our own individual goals. that means...priorities. sometimes, priorities change. even just for alittle while. doesn't necessarily mean you value someone less, just that for this time...refocusing.
Regarding the meat of this thread, not the initial post...casual boyfriends and girlfriends aside, your spouse and kids should always take priority over friends and family....bottom line..and Lauri, that cannot be argued, even by you ..
Well I think there are some points of "argument." First, it's hard to really know what one means by "priority." Are you talking like, your friend is drowning at the same moment your kids are stuck in a burning building? That's not really what we're talking about here. This is more like friends exiting your life because they think they don't need you anymore. It's really not like anyone is asking anyone to do anything, it's just asking them to be there as good friend the way they have been. That doesn't seem to be in conflict with any other relationships one might have.
Second, we're not really talking about kids here. Kids are family. Don't drag them into it! . It's another whole can of worms. Kids are dependents, kids are a responsibility. It's not the same as a young guy ditching his friend for a girl friend or even a close girlfriend of a 35 year-old ditching because she got married. You bring kids into the world, you're responsible for them, no arguments here. But we're not talking about kids, we're talking about romantic relationships.
Third, it has been argued by academics that write on the subject that no, romantic partners, even if you are married to them, do not necessarily take "priority" over friends. It's hard to explain to people who are so against even thinking about it for a moment, but the bonds of friendship can be extremely strong, and can be an extremely important part of life. There are many people in the world who have closer relationships with their friends than with their husband/wife. When you think about it, what is a husband or wife other than a friend that you can have sex with? If your best friend in the whole world, with whom you connect more than anything were of the gender you were attracted to, how would he or she be any different than your husband or wife. Not everyone has this type of friendship, but not every treats their husband or wife as their "sex and everything else partner" either.
And as for taking priority over family, I really hope I never have to make that decision. I hope I never have the option of either saving my parents from a burning building or saving my partner from a sinking ship. When we're talking about choosing one of the other here, as you are, this is the type of situation we're talking about. Because talking about who you're going to spend Thanksgiving with is so trivial. We (royal) just think it's not trivial because of the "rules." I wouldn't be with someone who thought this stuff was a big deal. If you're married to someone, you see them every single day. To me, that's a big part of it. If I see a friend or family member once a month and my boyfriend every day, on that day that I'm supposed to see my friend or family member, it's going to be more important to me to see that friend or family member than my boyfriend. If you get married, you supposedly have most of your lives to spend together. it's not a "sacrifice" to spread your time to other people you love.
So I would say that with the exception of the kids issue, there is a lot of room for argument here. It's a major problem that people will say things like, "you can't argue with that" in response to these issues. It's not like it's a natural phenomenon beyond the scope of human manipulation. This is all a social issue, and there are ALWAYS arguments with respect to any social issue. That's how positive change is made.
"Third, it has been argued by academics that write on the subject that no, romantic partners, even if you are married to them, do not necessarily take "priority" over friends. It's hard to explain to people who are so against even thinking about it for a moment, but the bonds of friendship can be extremely strong, and can be an extremely important part of life"
i agree with this.
when i say 'priority' i mean, in the long-term, life goals. my husband is my first thought. obviously, oftentimes my friends and/or other family take priority over him. that's relationships. however, my husband - who IS my family - is the one person in the world i LIVE my life with, day in and day out, the one i plan my future with, who i built a home with, share responsibilities with, who i plan my retirement with, etc, etc. i don't do any of those things with my friends or even my other family. no one is suggesting it is all or nothing....just that when push comes to shove, most put their spouses and/or children ahead of other family members and friends for the 'big things.'
friendship IS an extremely important part of life. studies have proven time and again how important social networks are for health, happiness, longevity. no one denies this. however, a friend temporarily not spending as much time with you, or missing a few calls, due to the fact that they have a new love in their life....well......that's a temporary thing, and fgood friends usually are supportive/understanding of that. just like i am understanding that my friends with small children don't have as much time for me right now, if at all. the love is still there, and i know we will always reconnect, eventually. same thing with a friend and a new job, a new spouse, hell...a new puppy. priorites shift. this is not discounting the pre-existing relationships, nor downplaying their importance.
btw - i think the difference for many of us is....we don't view it as a 'difficult decision' or even something to get too concerned over....it's a willing choice, making your partner/family your priority. sure, when planning holidays and such, things can get sticky...but you can still work it out and do what you want....it's just what one wants may not be what everyone else wants.
Yeah, you're not keeping scorecards on your friends at all. :roll: If they blow off your wedding or your parents' funeral, maybe you have a point. But short of that, the fact that they're too busy seeing the exciting new person in their life for weekly drinks with you does not count as not being there for you.
Who said that this is the issue? In severe case I mentioned, the friend was a repeat offender. He was a serial monogamist, and we were inseparable between his relationships. Even when i was dating someone, we still hang out as a group and stuff all the time. I still considered him to be one of my best friends. But when he was dating someone, forget it. It was like we had never even met. I just eventually said to myself I wasn't going to be a back up anymore. I wasn't being fair to myself. I stopped making the extra effort that I always had to put in, and since he was dating someone, he didn't put in any effort, and we just never saw each other again. It was very sad and hard for me to do at the time.
Maybe the problem is not that the friends are showing their true colors, but that YOU are too wrapped up in YOURSELF to be happy for the joy and excitement in your friend's life because you're not getting what you want from them.
This is uncalled for. I am the least "wrapped up in myself" person I have ever known. A guy actually told me once that I should talk about myself more because most of what I talk about is the people I care about and broader social topics, and he thought I should think about myself more. What guy says that to a girl he's seeing? I have always done everything for myself, and have also been accused of being "too independent," which I'll take as a compliment. I don't expect anything from anyone other than human decency. As I told you before, the traditional "sour grapes" argument doesn't hold because I have shown that I do unto others as I'd have done to myself.
And did you ever think that what's really being said by your friend is to the new person and not to you and goes more like "hey, i'm only spending so much time with you becos you're new and the sex is hot. once the passion fades, i'm back out with the friends."
haha well I'm glad you winked here because that's pretty nonsensical. besides I don't think my friends even like sex so it's certainly not happening in my case . But I have known people who have given up their friends and then gotten stuck. Once you establish that this is how it's going to be, it's hard to turn that around. That's bad enough when the relationship continues, but it's a hell of a lot worse when the relationship ends. You see it all the time with people who have been divorced or widowed...they put all their eggs in the romantic basket and now they can't get back what they once had. You know this is something that I truly appreciate about how my own life has worked out. No one is completely self-sufficient, we need a lot of people in our lives who love us. You know D2D quoted the line in just breathe "I'm a lucky man to count on both hands..." I feel the same way as Ed. You know in all of EV's songs that mention love, I have never taken it to mean romantic love, I feel like he believes in something much bigger, and so do I.
again Lauri it seems you are defining friendships maybe differently than the rest of us which is surely your prerogative. As corny as it sounds, to me true friendship comes from the heart. it's not something as tangible as hanging out or returning phone calls.
Actually this is exactly how I'm defining it too. That's my point. Everyone is arguing, "what's the big deal if your friend doesn't want to get a drink as often, don't be a baby." That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm thinking along the same lines you are in terms of friendship. I'm talking about just being there for your friends. I do think that if you live close together, hanging out is a part of that, but it's definitely not the crux of my argument.
what happens when you get divorced or widowed is the fact that in divorce:
-most of your other friends are still married/have kids, thus don't have the time for you as they would if you were all single. also, many people while married DO keep up their friendships, so they don't have the problem of not having friends to see, just as mentioned...amongst others who are married and have kids, they have other things too and may not have as open a social schedule as you.
in the case of being widowed:
-many other people in your life already died too. it';s a sad fact, but that's how it goes. thus why senior centers and the like grow in popularity. even IF you keep up lifelong friendships, those friends die. i've seen it with my own mother. she had a wide circle of lifelong friendships, most of em are dead now....and many are ill, just can't be as 'social.' now for a young widow, again, similar to the divorce scenario above.
in reality, for most of us...the big issue is: KIDS. the temporary breaks in seeing each other very regularly with a new love, or a new job, etc...are just that, fleeting. (for most of us - not talking about friends that are shit and should be dumped). however, being coupled with children most definitely takes a bigger toll on friendships, or they can anyway, if people aren't accepting of the lifechanges. we never had kids, almost all our married friends did. while their kids were very small, we hardly saw them. now that their kids are older, we see them a bit more. even single friends with kids, same deal. we marrieds sans kids or those still single, definitely all see each other more often....but even there, work, travel, different interests at times, finances, etc...all make a difference in adult friendships.
bottomline....the vast majority of people tend to couple up eventually and procreate. not all, but even today...most. this will always have some effect on other relationships, and it doesn't have to be viewed as dire. it's simply reality.
again Lauri it seems you are defining friendships maybe differently than the rest of us which is surely your prerogative. As corny as it sounds, to me true friendship comes from the heart. it's not something as tangible as hanging out or returning phone calls.
Actually this is exactly how I'm defining it too. That's my point. Everyone is arguing, "what's the big deal if your friend doesn't want to get a drink as often, don't be a baby." That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm thinking along the same lines you are in terms of friendship. I'm talking about just being there for your friends. I do think that if you live close together, hanging out is a part of that, but it's definitely not the crux of my argument.
then we all agree, no?
i haven't seen anyone say otherwise?
bottomline....the vast majority of people tend to couple up eventually and procreate. not all, but even today...most. this will always have some effect on other relationships, and it doesn't have to be viewed as dire. it's simply reality.
That's actually not true statistically speaking. The number of never-married adults in the United States is growing exponentially every year, and the "vast majority" of single (really single) people say they are not looking for a partner. Furthermore, people are spending far more of their lives singles than they ever have in this past. This is due to getting married later and living longer, as well as divorce. If I remember correctly, close to 100 million Americans are single. All of these statistics are publicly available on single advocacy sites and from some academic books, but I can't look up the numbers right now. It's actually becoming very inaccurate to say the vast majority of people eventually couple up. The numbers are even greater in Western Europe, so I've heard. As for procreation, the fertility rate (the number of children a woman has on average in her lifetime, different from the birth rate) is falling all over the world, except the U.S. There was a huge article about this about 2 or 3 weeks ago in The Economist. The U.S., due evangelicalism, has actually slightly increased it's fertility rate from its lowest point. No other developed countries are really in the same position. In the undeveloped world, it's made huge drops in a very short amount of time, which is fantastic for economic development and women's rights.
Comments
exactly.
dinner with me...or shiny new dick?
no contest.
i'm your friend, and i'll still be here...whether you marry the new dick, kick it to the curb, or just keep it in rotation.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
and that, mi amigo, sums it up perfectly!
I'm going to keep going with the rotation for a bit....
I have eaten so much gold I crapped excellence - drtyfrnk29
Life is either a daring adventure or nothing at all!
haha. right.
no one is advocating treating friends like shit. just pointing out - what i thought was - the obvious. it's like an unspoken understanding amongst friends. when first in love, all bets are off. real friends understand, and don't feel slighted. obviously, if the issue goes beyond this, to true neglect, another story...but the usual i am crazy-in-love-can't-get-enough-of -this-person scenario plays out...well...it plays out. friendships intact. the crazy-in-love, may or may not. all depends. honestly, i never really experienced, nor seen anyone else, any other way. c'est la vie....
those beginnings....man....what FUN!
christ.
you can recapture it a bit from time to time....but yea...the start is always just soooooo intoxicating.
*swoons*
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
You don't think your horizons need broadening, but mine do...riiight. How do you know my horizons aren't as broad as they come, or that your's aren't very limited?
Sorry but you can't say you respect my opinion and then tell me I should go broaden my horizons...yeah if you "respected" my opinion you wouldn't also think it's uninformed. Just saying things like, "I respect your opinion" and "agree to disagree" doesn't mean you actually mean it, especially when you pretty much say you don't right in the next breath.
b/c i am saying i respect your opinion. i don't think your'e wrong..and yet, you seem to suggest that my pov is wrong. thus, why i believe you might possibly broaden your horizons there. that's all.
or not. :P
seriously, i really don't care what you think. honest.
this is enjoyable discussion for me.
i DO agree...to disagree!
ii do disgaree with much that you say here, and i agree that it's a-ok! i am not trying to 'convince' you, at all. i don't waste my time trying to convince anyone of anything, especially when they have no bearing on my own life, influence on it, or are not someone i love/care about. it's good convo tho. your opinions do interest me, simply b/c they run so counter to my own. but no, i take none of it 'personally.'
i am understood by those i care about, that's all i need.
and even here, i feel 'understood' enough to not feel crazy, so it's all good. and i seriously do hope you maintain the kind of friendships and relationships you desire, it's what we all hope for and hopefully achieve. being understood and respected in kind, it's the best we can have..committed relationships, friendships, family, all of it.
btw - where did i ever say your pov was uninformed? i didn't. i only advocate 'accepting' many of the povs you are dismissing here, just like you want us to accept yours. i accept it. i could not live by it, but i do accept it as valid. of course it is.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Good lord woman! I'm glad I'm not in your circle of friends! Love is not a mental illness. It's not like pleading insanity. You can't do things you know are wrong and say, oh well, I was in love for a bit there and expect people to just put it out of their minds. In one breath you say that it's never ok to "treat someone like shit" and then in the next you say, "but if you're in a new relationship all bets are off." Treating a friend like they "don't fucking exist" is treating someone like shit. If you disagree with that...I don't know what to say. If you agree with that, then it can't be justified just by being "in love," by your own admission.
you said I should think about broadening my horizons.
And I sound like my opinions are "right" because we're arguing here. You don't submit an op-ed to the Times and say, "well I don't know what I'm talking about, and I'm not going to back up anything I say, because these are just opinions and I don't want anyone to understand my point. I don't know why I'm bothering to write an op-ed." Of course they're my "opinions" but I'm trying to make a point. If it comes off to you as if I'm asserting I'm right, then I'm doing my job in the debate.
good lord woman!
hahaha.
ditto.
my friends know i have their back and love them.
sorry if you don't understand my shorthand. 'all bets are off' does not imply treating friends like shit. i've never treated a friend like shit. i have however, not hung out with them as often when in a new love. they've done the same. we all understand each other. you and i, thankfully, don't have to. i've never treated a friend like they don't fucking exist. you might want to actually read what people post before making assumptions on their ideas. that's all.
whiz...justam...conor....pjhawks...etc...thanks for making me feel sane.
crazy love is FUN, and good friends understand!
broadening horizons = uninformed opinions?
we clearly speak a different vocabulary. eh well.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
You accused me of being condescending and then you talk to decides2dream like THIS?
You're making me sorry I let you off so easily. :geek:
This entire thread is based on one guy treating another guy like he "doesn't fucking exist." What didn't I read?
well did you mean then? You said that your horizons don't need to be broadened but mine do. I took that is you claiming that you are more experienced/have seen more/are more knowledgeable about the situation than I am.
*beso*
its been fun kiddies...and again, i appreciate those who understand me. i think i'm clear, but i know at times i am not. and so it goes. it's ok.
time to dream, seeya all around the bend!
tomorrow, one more day of work...then, holiday/vacation....time with friends and family....love of my life...it's all good!
and to drop the leash, don't let your friend get you down. if he REALLY is a friend, he'll see the error of his ways if he is truly treating you wrong...and if he isn't, you'll see that too. because you're friends. and sure, hope everyone gets laid.
nighty-nite!
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Oh yes, I know this tactic. Spew a lot of touchy-feely, meaningless mumbo-jumbo as the "last word" so everyone who reads this will think you somehow "won" an argument, and then take off. I think that's how W got elected.
becos you always sound so frustrated abotu everything
yeah, my initial advice to the OP was going to be 'dude, don't be a cock block. root for your boy for a little while.'
I missed this somehow. I can relate to Drop the Leash, but not to his friend. I've never done this to anyone. As I said, I make an effort to make sure my friends aren't left behind when I meet someone else. I think a good person is just cognesente of it. If you're a good friend, you keep your friends in mind and try not to get too caught up in yourself. If you are lucky your romantic partner will help with that too. I've had it done to me though, to varying degrees of severity. In one case, I did not wait around for the friend to "snap out of it." I was tired of being there for someone who was never there for me. In other less severe cases, things didn't "go on as they did before." Something is always different after you learn someone's true colors. To me, when a friend does this, it's basically saying, "I'm just hanging out with you until someone I can sleep with comes along." That kind of message is hard to take back.
And I wish I could tell Drop the Leash that this improves with age, but it really doesn't. It's not just high school and college. Actually I think it gets worse in some ways. I kept in better touch with my friends when I was out of the country than some of them do once they "pair up." But, they do of course come out of the woodwork when there is some sort of favor needed. I think it's also a big reason why people enter into relationships that aren't very good- they don't want to be left behind. All of my friends could write me out of their lives completely and I still wouldn't do that, but I think it happens a lot.
soulsinging- I just saw your last post. I don't think anyone should really be judging the quality of others romantic relationships here. I have been in love, and I doubt that any two people experience that the same way. Just because my experience has been different than your's doesn't mean I haven't had the experience. What was described in terms of being "obsessed" and "not being able to think about other people" sounded much more like "infatuation" than love to me. That is how I have experienced things and how I understood the post. I don't think that you have the right to judge the feelings I've had for people as somehow less meaningful or strong or whatever than the feelings that you have had.
I'm frustrated about everything? I definitely got frustrated tonight in this thread. It was just something I felt passionate about, and I felt like some people were more interested in picking arguments than actually reading what was being said. I do find that frustrating. I unfortunately have not been able to power down and go to bed. I can't seem to stop thinking and typing.
put on a slow, dumb show for you
and crack you up
so you can put a blue ribbon on my brain
god I'm very, very frightening
and I'll overdo it'
Chef from South Park said it best: http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/151231
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
I have had many a friend fall in love over the years......And all of a sudden that "best friend" disappears...
THATS A GOOD THING!!!!!!
He has moved on with his life......He has fallen in love....He would rather spend time with his lady than hanging out with the boys.......That makes plenty of sense to me.....
If he doesnt call me for 6 months...... a year.....2 years.....THATS FINE!!!!!
When we do get together....Hopefully it's like "Old Times"....
Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
again Lauri it seems you are defining friendships maybe differently than the rest of us which is surely your prerogative. As corny as it sounds, to me true friendship comes from the heart. it's not something as tangible as hanging out or returning phone calls. it's a feeling and is the difference between friends and acquaintences. as an example i have a guy i consider a friend but haven't talked to them in over a decade. we grew up together, went through high school, he met a girl from out of the country in college and essentially ran off with her - he has been in and out of the country and other states since then. nothing was done by either of us intentionally to harm our friendship. i still consider him a friend, the bond is still in the heart for me. I'm sure our paths will cross again and whey they do i'll still be his friend. on the other hand i have many acquaintences that i see on a much more regular basis but i don't consider them true friends per se. I can't really define how someone becomes a true friend anymore than you can explain how people fall in love. again not trying to put you down I just think you and the OP are defining things differently than the rest of us here.
if one believes they will never ever put a romantic partner, or even any human being, above anyone else....all good. just don't be surprised that many do not share the same way of living. no one is saying that's wrong, just that it simply is not the norm. it's almost a biological imperative for humans to pair up, form new family units and so on. doesn't mean you have to, just that many, many do....and have been. and yes, the bulk of this thread went waaaayyyyy beyond just the initial post in it's scope.
oh and apologies for ending the conversation when i did....i had to go to bed. :roll: hahaha. thus why i posted, didn't want to appear rude after being quite involved in the topic. no tactics, no trying to win, etc, etc. i thought i was having a pleasant discussion along with a few glasses of wine...i wasn't trying to convince anyone of anything. just sharing my perspective and interested in others. and yes, my husband came home so you bet, i dump you all in a heartbeat for him.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Yeah, you're not keeping scorecards on your friends at all. :roll: If they blow off your wedding or your parents' funeral, maybe you have a point. But short of that, the fact that they're too busy seeing the exciting new person in their life for weekly drinks with you does not count as not being there for you. Maybe the problem is not that the friends are showing their true colors, but that YOU are too wrapped up in YOURSELF to be happy for the joy and excitement in your friend's life because you're not getting what you want from them.
And did you ever think that what's really being said by your friend is to the new person and not to you and goes more like "hey, i'm only spending so much time with you becos you're new and the sex is hot. once the passion fades, i'm back out with the friends."
i never have!
people change!
lives change!
relationships or not...i've not had a friendship, a romantic partnership...hell, even a familial relationship remain stagnant and unchanged.
i am cognizant of my friends and family, but that does not mean i have to live my life making all my new plans with them in mind. nor do i expect them to either. even being blown off once or twice, i don't chalk that up to being a 'bad person'...i realize it for what it is, being caught up in the excitement of a new person. who knows, possibly a life partner...who will add to my friend or family members lifetime happiness, and maybe mine as well, if we all stay in each other's lives. we're not talking about blowing someone off, continually, for 6 months to a year...we're talking the usual - missing a few phone calls, not getting together as often, yada yada yada. i'm glad my friends and family do not define my worthiness in such strict terms. i sure as shit don't for them, either. that's real love imo. i accept them, faults and all...aware we're all a bit different and that we have to persue our own paths. i may not always be a priority on that path with em, but as long as i know they still love and value me, it's all good.
ever have a friend get a shiny new job, and they have to work like mad...and have no time for you? did it make you angry? no? why? b/c they 'had' to? well, if that's ok, not seen as 'selfish'...since really, they are only thinking of their own future career when they behave as such, why is it so wrong for one to willingly choose to be with the shiny new love in their life? all they are trying to do is invest in a possible future relationship that will add to their lives. or yea, maybe they simply want to strike while the iron is hot and simply get laid. point is, we have to embrace opportunities when they arrive, to work on our own individual goals. that means...priorities. sometimes, priorities change. even just for alittle while. doesn't necessarily mean you value someone less, just that for this time...refocusing.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Well I think there are some points of "argument." First, it's hard to really know what one means by "priority." Are you talking like, your friend is drowning at the same moment your kids are stuck in a burning building? That's not really what we're talking about here. This is more like friends exiting your life because they think they don't need you anymore. It's really not like anyone is asking anyone to do anything, it's just asking them to be there as good friend the way they have been. That doesn't seem to be in conflict with any other relationships one might have.
Second, we're not really talking about kids here. Kids are family. Don't drag them into it!
Third, it has been argued by academics that write on the subject that no, romantic partners, even if you are married to them, do not necessarily take "priority" over friends. It's hard to explain to people who are so against even thinking about it for a moment, but the bonds of friendship can be extremely strong, and can be an extremely important part of life. There are many people in the world who have closer relationships with their friends than with their husband/wife. When you think about it, what is a husband or wife other than a friend that you can have sex with? If your best friend in the whole world, with whom you connect more than anything were of the gender you were attracted to, how would he or she be any different than your husband or wife. Not everyone has this type of friendship, but not every treats their husband or wife as their "sex and everything else partner" either.
And as for taking priority over family, I really hope I never have to make that decision. I hope I never have the option of either saving my parents from a burning building or saving my partner from a sinking ship. When we're talking about choosing one of the other here, as you are, this is the type of situation we're talking about. Because talking about who you're going to spend Thanksgiving with is so trivial. We (royal) just think it's not trivial because of the "rules." I wouldn't be with someone who thought this stuff was a big deal. If you're married to someone, you see them every single day. To me, that's a big part of it. If I see a friend or family member once a month and my boyfriend every day, on that day that I'm supposed to see my friend or family member, it's going to be more important to me to see that friend or family member than my boyfriend. If you get married, you supposedly have most of your lives to spend together. it's not a "sacrifice" to spread your time to other people you love.
So I would say that with the exception of the kids issue, there is a lot of room for argument here. It's a major problem that people will say things like, "you can't argue with that" in response to these issues. It's not like it's a natural phenomenon beyond the scope of human manipulation. This is all a social issue, and there are ALWAYS arguments with respect to any social issue. That's how positive change is made.
i agree with this.
when i say 'priority' i mean, in the long-term, life goals. my husband is my first thought. obviously, oftentimes my friends and/or other family take priority over him. that's relationships. however, my husband - who IS my family - is the one person in the world i LIVE my life with, day in and day out, the one i plan my future with, who i built a home with, share responsibilities with, who i plan my retirement with, etc, etc. i don't do any of those things with my friends or even my other family. no one is suggesting it is all or nothing....just that when push comes to shove, most put their spouses and/or children ahead of other family members and friends for the 'big things.'
friendship IS an extremely important part of life. studies have proven time and again how important social networks are for health, happiness, longevity. no one denies this. however, a friend temporarily not spending as much time with you, or missing a few calls, due to the fact that they have a new love in their life....well......that's a temporary thing, and fgood friends usually are supportive/understanding of that. just like i am understanding that my friends with small children don't have as much time for me right now, if at all. the love is still there, and i know we will always reconnect, eventually. same thing with a friend and a new job, a new spouse, hell...a new puppy. priorites shift. this is not discounting the pre-existing relationships, nor downplaying their importance.
btw - i think the difference for many of us is....we don't view it as a 'difficult decision' or even something to get too concerned over....it's a willing choice, making your partner/family your priority. sure, when planning holidays and such, things can get sticky...but you can still work it out and do what you want....it's just what one wants may not be what everyone else wants.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Who said that this is the issue? In severe case I mentioned, the friend was a repeat offender. He was a serial monogamist, and we were inseparable between his relationships. Even when i was dating someone, we still hang out as a group and stuff all the time. I still considered him to be one of my best friends. But when he was dating someone, forget it. It was like we had never even met. I just eventually said to myself I wasn't going to be a back up anymore. I wasn't being fair to myself. I stopped making the extra effort that I always had to put in, and since he was dating someone, he didn't put in any effort, and we just never saw each other again. It was very sad and hard for me to do at the time.
This is uncalled for. I am the least "wrapped up in myself" person I have ever known. A guy actually told me once that I should talk about myself more because most of what I talk about is the people I care about and broader social topics, and he thought I should think about myself more. What guy says that to a girl he's seeing? I have always done everything for myself, and have also been accused of being "too independent," which I'll take as a compliment. I don't expect anything from anyone other than human decency. As I told you before, the traditional "sour grapes" argument doesn't hold because I have shown that I do unto others as I'd have done to myself.
haha well I'm glad you winked here because that's pretty nonsensical. besides I don't think my friends even like sex so it's certainly not happening in my case
Actually this is exactly how I'm defining it too. That's my point. Everyone is arguing, "what's the big deal if your friend doesn't want to get a drink as often, don't be a baby." That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm thinking along the same lines you are in terms of friendship. I'm talking about just being there for your friends. I do think that if you live close together, hanging out is a part of that, but it's definitely not the crux of my argument.
-most of your other friends are still married/have kids, thus don't have the time for you as they would if you were all single. also, many people while married DO keep up their friendships, so they don't have the problem of not having friends to see, just as mentioned...amongst others who are married and have kids, they have other things too and may not have as open a social schedule as you.
in the case of being widowed:
-many other people in your life already died too. it';s a sad fact, but that's how it goes. thus why senior centers and the like grow in popularity. even IF you keep up lifelong friendships, those friends die. i've seen it with my own mother. she had a wide circle of lifelong friendships, most of em are dead now....and many are ill, just can't be as 'social.' now for a young widow, again, similar to the divorce scenario above.
in reality, for most of us...the big issue is: KIDS. the temporary breaks in seeing each other very regularly with a new love, or a new job, etc...are just that, fleeting. (for most of us - not talking about friends that are shit and should be dumped). however, being coupled with children most definitely takes a bigger toll on friendships, or they can anyway, if people aren't accepting of the lifechanges. we never had kids, almost all our married friends did. while their kids were very small, we hardly saw them. now that their kids are older, we see them a bit more. even single friends with kids, same deal. we marrieds sans kids or those still single, definitely all see each other more often....but even there, work, travel, different interests at times, finances, etc...all make a difference in adult friendships.
bottomline....the vast majority of people tend to couple up eventually and procreate. not all, but even today...most. this will always have some effect on other relationships, and it doesn't have to be viewed as dire. it's simply reality.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
then we all agree, no?
i haven't seen anyone say otherwise?
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
That's actually not true statistically speaking. The number of never-married adults in the United States is growing exponentially every year, and the "vast majority" of single (really single) people say they are not looking for a partner. Furthermore, people are spending far more of their lives singles than they ever have in this past. This is due to getting married later and living longer, as well as divorce. If I remember correctly, close to 100 million Americans are single. All of these statistics are publicly available on single advocacy sites and from some academic books, but I can't look up the numbers right now. It's actually becoming very inaccurate to say the vast majority of people eventually couple up. The numbers are even greater in Western Europe, so I've heard. As for procreation, the fertility rate (the number of children a woman has on average in her lifetime, different from the birth rate) is falling all over the world, except the U.S. There was a huge article about this about 2 or 3 weeks ago in The Economist. The U.S., due evangelicalism, has actually slightly increased it's fertility rate from its lowest point. No other developed countries are really in the same position. In the undeveloped world, it's made huge drops in a very short amount of time, which is fantastic for economic development and women's rights.
Typo Man: "Thanks kidz, but remembir, stay in skool!"