(PJ related) CBS: Video Relay Interpreters Companies Busted
This is related to my issues with the sign language interpreters for the PJ shows that I wanted to share. It's long, as you can see.. so it's up to you. I can't make it any shorter. Sorry.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/11/ ... 3910.shtml
CBS: 26 People Arrested for Stealing More Than $50 Million from Government Fund that Provides Video Interpreters for the Deaf
(CBS) In a widespread scheme one assistant Attorney General described as "outrageous and insidious," 26 people from seven companies in eight states were indicted Thursday for stealing more than $50 million from a government fund that provides video interpreters that translate sign language for the deaf and hearing impaired outside their world. The service, overseen by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC), allows more than 30 million hearing disabled Americans to communicate with those who can hear.
"It’s not going to be tolerated," Assistant Attorney General Lanny Breuer told CBS News. "They were running up the money, and taxpayers were paying for services that weren’t really occurring."
In a series of coast-to-coast raids, individuals from New York, New Jersey, Florida, Texas, Arizona, Nevada, Maryland and California were arrested. They allegedly submitted thousands of "false and fraudulent" claims for Video Relay Service (VRS) calls that never involved hearing impaired people. Instead, the government charged, scammers placed millions of dollars of phony calls to pre-recorded radio programs, 800 numbers or podcasts - never translating anything but billing the FCC’s fund nearly $400 an hour for every hour the employee was on the phone.
"The fraud issue is something we’re going to have to deal with," prominent disabled rights attorney Jeff Rosen told CBS News."But we can’t allow that to diminish the access that deaf people have."
Begun back in 1993, in recent years VRS calls have skyrocketed - rising from about 100,000 minutes per month in 2004 to nearly 9 million minutes per month in 2009. Overall, the industry is expected to generate nearly $800 million in revenue this year alone.
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About time.
We’ve been complaining for years and nobody listened. Sorenson, the original and biggest VRS company, had successfully managed to “drown” out our complaints and ignored us. They aren’t the only company who is guilty of this practice; there have been others who have been caught practicing illegal and unethical actions within the organization for their own personal profit, interest or agenda.
I know that this does not interest the PJ community here but I wanted to share because some of the frustrations I experienced with the interpreters for the PJ shows, where the interpreters abused their positions by suggesting that I interviewed them or contacted them AT WORK.
At the expense of taxpayers’ AND getting paid while being interviewed for the PJ shows AND if they were *willing* to work with me on the PJ songs, it had to be done at their VRS work!
Including that ACL interpreter who also interpreted at Lolla in both 2007 & 2008. She was one of the top management for one VRS and after 4 months of trying to get her to answer me for the Lolla 07, only to have her answer me ONE WEEK before Lolla – because I slammed Access for giving me a lame reason why I couldn’t be given names of the interpreters and working with them with information given to me directly from RID (Registry of Interpreters for the Deaf - http://www.rid.org/).
The interpreter in charge contacted me and gave me the nbr where she worked and it didn’t work out because of schedule conflicts & networking problems, but she said she had her co-worker in place to answer for her because she was interpreting for a court and would be there as soon as she got paged from her co-worker.
That did concern me but because of the time and so many things going on at the same time, that my main concern at that time was getting access to the shows I needed that weekend, especially Pearl Jam.
It was a big mess….it was dirty business for her own personal gain.
That’s why I did things differently for the Nashville show. I made sure that *I* was in control of interviewing the interpreters, not the venue or agency hired by the venue.
I was lucky that Ryman was willing to let me do that. How could they not when I asked them if they knew American Sign Language in order to determine whether the interpreter was fitting for the show? How w ould they know they knew PJ songs well enough in ASL? They couldn’t. But they were very nice and willing to work with me.
Anyway, many interpreters I interviewed wanted to do it at their VRS companies. That was my first sign of rejecting them – no matter how good they were. Unethical interpreters will not make things work that would benefit me as a consumer, ensuring that I had the access I requested for.
Natalie, the one who ended up doing the EV solo show, passed the interview. She contacted me AFTER she got off from work and wanted to let me know that she was on her way home and wondered if I had Skype that we could continue the interview?
And we worked together based on her schedule outside of her VRS job over Skype.
Not very many interpreters are willing to do that because they all complained to me that working on PJ songs for many hours AND doing them the way I want them to do (eg *my* songs list/research/interpretations), they would be earning less than minimum wage by the time show arrived.
So they prefer to do minimum work and on their own without me being involved.
I went off the point there a little bit, but basically I’ve seen interpreters abusing their positions at VRS at the expense of taxypayers’ and getting away with it. Not just them, but their bosses and managers as well.
It’s about time they busted some of those asses. Only some of those asses.
*shakes head*
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/11/ ... 3910.shtml
CBS: 26 People Arrested for Stealing More Than $50 Million from Government Fund that Provides Video Interpreters for the Deaf
(CBS) In a widespread scheme one assistant Attorney General described as "outrageous and insidious," 26 people from seven companies in eight states were indicted Thursday for stealing more than $50 million from a government fund that provides video interpreters that translate sign language for the deaf and hearing impaired outside their world. The service, overseen by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC), allows more than 30 million hearing disabled Americans to communicate with those who can hear.
"It’s not going to be tolerated," Assistant Attorney General Lanny Breuer told CBS News. "They were running up the money, and taxpayers were paying for services that weren’t really occurring."
In a series of coast-to-coast raids, individuals from New York, New Jersey, Florida, Texas, Arizona, Nevada, Maryland and California were arrested. They allegedly submitted thousands of "false and fraudulent" claims for Video Relay Service (VRS) calls that never involved hearing impaired people. Instead, the government charged, scammers placed millions of dollars of phony calls to pre-recorded radio programs, 800 numbers or podcasts - never translating anything but billing the FCC’s fund nearly $400 an hour for every hour the employee was on the phone.
"The fraud issue is something we’re going to have to deal with," prominent disabled rights attorney Jeff Rosen told CBS News."But we can’t allow that to diminish the access that deaf people have."
Begun back in 1993, in recent years VRS calls have skyrocketed - rising from about 100,000 minutes per month in 2004 to nearly 9 million minutes per month in 2009. Overall, the industry is expected to generate nearly $800 million in revenue this year alone.
========================================================================================
About time.
We’ve been complaining for years and nobody listened. Sorenson, the original and biggest VRS company, had successfully managed to “drown” out our complaints and ignored us. They aren’t the only company who is guilty of this practice; there have been others who have been caught practicing illegal and unethical actions within the organization for their own personal profit, interest or agenda.
I know that this does not interest the PJ community here but I wanted to share because some of the frustrations I experienced with the interpreters for the PJ shows, where the interpreters abused their positions by suggesting that I interviewed them or contacted them AT WORK.
At the expense of taxpayers’ AND getting paid while being interviewed for the PJ shows AND if they were *willing* to work with me on the PJ songs, it had to be done at their VRS work!
Including that ACL interpreter who also interpreted at Lolla in both 2007 & 2008. She was one of the top management for one VRS and after 4 months of trying to get her to answer me for the Lolla 07, only to have her answer me ONE WEEK before Lolla – because I slammed Access for giving me a lame reason why I couldn’t be given names of the interpreters and working with them with information given to me directly from RID (Registry of Interpreters for the Deaf - http://www.rid.org/).
The interpreter in charge contacted me and gave me the nbr where she worked and it didn’t work out because of schedule conflicts & networking problems, but she said she had her co-worker in place to answer for her because she was interpreting for a court and would be there as soon as she got paged from her co-worker.
That did concern me but because of the time and so many things going on at the same time, that my main concern at that time was getting access to the shows I needed that weekend, especially Pearl Jam.
It was a big mess….it was dirty business for her own personal gain.
That’s why I did things differently for the Nashville show. I made sure that *I* was in control of interviewing the interpreters, not the venue or agency hired by the venue.
I was lucky that Ryman was willing to let me do that. How could they not when I asked them if they knew American Sign Language in order to determine whether the interpreter was fitting for the show? How w ould they know they knew PJ songs well enough in ASL? They couldn’t. But they were very nice and willing to work with me.
Anyway, many interpreters I interviewed wanted to do it at their VRS companies. That was my first sign of rejecting them – no matter how good they were. Unethical interpreters will not make things work that would benefit me as a consumer, ensuring that I had the access I requested for.
Natalie, the one who ended up doing the EV solo show, passed the interview. She contacted me AFTER she got off from work and wanted to let me know that she was on her way home and wondered if I had Skype that we could continue the interview?
And we worked together based on her schedule outside of her VRS job over Skype.
Not very many interpreters are willing to do that because they all complained to me that working on PJ songs for many hours AND doing them the way I want them to do (eg *my* songs list/research/interpretations), they would be earning less than minimum wage by the time show arrived.
So they prefer to do minimum work and on their own without me being involved.
I went off the point there a little bit, but basically I’ve seen interpreters abusing their positions at VRS at the expense of taxypayers’ and getting away with it. Not just them, but their bosses and managers as well.
It’s about time they busted some of those asses. Only some of those asses.
*shakes head*
JA: Why do I get the Ticketmaster question?
EV: It's your band.
~Q Magazine
"Kisses for the glow...kisses for the lease." - BDRII
EV: It's your band.
~Q Magazine
"Kisses for the glow...kisses for the lease." - BDRII
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
But whatever... to give you an idea of how ridiculously the interpreters get paid for the VRS service (as mentioned in the article, $400 dollars per hour for each employee on the phone, for example), one top interpreter told me that because of the highest level of interpreting certification he had obtained, he was earning at least 60 dollars an hour!!
Almost all interpreters I know have a job with a certain VRS company. They all go there for obvious reason: good money and benefits.
And for the PJ shows? The pay varies, depending on the agency or freelancer interpreters and the venue's willingness of paying. Between 250 - 600.
For example, those shitty Cleveland interpreters in 2006? $500 dollars for one show. And they worked for a VRS company, earning very damn good wages. They did not do what I told them to work on and they ended up knowing NONE of the songs that night. "Sorry! We tried our best!"
This really pisses me off to no end, interpreters telling me that my expectations were "unrealistic" because I wanted to be involved in the process of interviewing and handling how we should work on PJ songs because they felt they wouldn't be getting what they felt they deserved for the job.
And they want to do this on their $50+ an hour job ON TOP of getting paid at the end of the PJ show?!!
Perhaps some of you understand why I was very angry with certain interpreters and flipping off at EV for giving that same ACL interpreter the attention she did NOT deserve. For all these things she did, not only ripping off the taxpayers' but using us as a vehicle as a mean of meeting and partying with the bands, with PJ on the top of the list. Oh, I could embarrass the hell out of her by spilling every single word she told me, but I am not going to stoop that low.
And how fucking frustrating this is for me - not getting interpreters to work with me for ANY PJ show I want to go to without going through so much trouble, hassle, and problems to get the most out of the show I could enjoy myself. It takes a lot of preparation.... yet there is no guarantee on the outcome.
It pisses me off.
Call a waahhambulance? I hear ya.
Nobody is comfortable holding one accountable for the wrongdoing they've done and rather look the other way, saying "this doesn't have anything to do with me.... that sucks for ya, sorry to hear. I don't know what to say.... she did a hell of a job though. EV thought it was cool...so it's cool with me."
*scoffs*
EV: It's your band.
~Q Magazine
"Kisses for the glow...kisses for the lease." - BDRII
maybe ed will see this and think twice.
Are interrupters ranked? So you can see how good they are before you/anybody hire them?
I can't speak for anyone else, but I find a lot of what's written confusing, cause the world is quite foreign to me. Many of the terms and organizations just don't have any meaning to me.
Without coming from a place of understanding what should be expected, it's hard to know how poor the service is.
From my completely ignorant perspective I would have high expectations that anyone taking on this assignment would be able to successfully handle upwards of 15-25 songs?
Is that reasonable?
Perhaps DTE, GTF, Alive, Black, Even Flow, YL, Daughter, Betterman, and all the other hits? As well as any featured material, so on the S/T tour they should know 4-7 songs from that album?
As for the theft and scams that were going on, that is disgusting. Sadly it is not unique to any one industry. There are so many dirty outfits all on the take with these government programs with little or no oversight.
Anyway, just wanted to let you know that someone was reading your posts and as I said, I find it interesting, but confusing.
In fact as I prepare to hit 'submit' I'm nervous that none (or little) of what I've written makes sense in the context of this thread. That feeling I have might be one of the reasons people are not quick to respond?
Hope your future experience with these services are all good.
my question ...WHO ARE YOU??? do you work for PEARL JAM...do you hire the people?? your telling that PJ contacts one of the companies .."WE NEED A PERSON FOR SUCH AND SUCH DATE"....then the GOV pays them for there time?
im all for the cause ...got two friends that are deaf ...... if there cheating/stealing im sure the FCC will do something about...
Hey blondie!
Yes, they are ranked depending on their home state or the national level. It's complicated. So many systems have been put into place, only to change it again and again causing different certifications on terps' hands that it confuses us what they really are capable of and are skilled at. QA I, II, III, NCI, NIC Advanced, NIC Master, CI/CT, IC/TC, CSC, NAD 3, NAD 4, NAD 5, BEI I, BEI II, BEI III..... it goes on. lol.
It's interesting because each state has different kinds of tests for their qualifications and skills before giving them certifications based on that. Not all have the same testing and rules. One who is considered "excellent" in one state is the worst in another.
People who hire them don't think about that because they don't know anything about that and just assume that because they know sign language, they can do the job.
I've had interpreters translating me as if I was talking like a fifth grader. :x I'd be saying a few words and they would go on and on... and I'm going wtf? I just said a few words! Never mind how many times I've been misinterpreted many times and not knowing it until I noticed the reactions I wasn't supposed to be receiving on the other end.
It is SO corrupted here in MIchigan where some interpreters who have the highest level (QA III) can't do the job and they were the ones who cheat the system. Some even good interpreters who should be at QA III but are stuck on 1 or 2.
To make it even more complicated - there are three "types" of sign language: Signed Exact English (SEE), Pidgin Signed English (PSE), and American Sign Language (ASL).
SEE: Sign word for word. This is usually proper for difficult classes with heavy vocabulary - ie computer courses. Or explaining the rules of English in writing, but only that. But not proper for other courses or music because that is like listening to the teacher in a flat voice with no emotions. SEE is not interesting to watch with Pearl Jam. This is exactly what the Cleveland terps did because they were looking at the printed lyrics, trying to save their faces. :P HOWEVER, some do prefer SEE at all times due to their education/home upbringing.
PSE: Between English and ASL in the sense that it does use ASL but more like in English order with some omission (like "is" or "the").
ASL: Pure language with its own syntax and grammar rules. It is a lot like French structure. It is because a deaf man from France came to America to teach the deaf sign language back in the 1800's (not sure exact date) and I believe about 10% is derived from Indians.
I am between PSE and ASL. ASL is a very difficult language to master at.
So here in the old Quality Assurance system (QA that is now suspended and in the process of going under a new system, Board Evaluation of Interpreters (BEI) - leased from Texas), interpreters had the option of choosing which of the three languages they wanted to be tested for.
Most would choose either SEE or PSE so that they could pass the test. :P And still consider themselves as ASL interpreters. Even say they are skilled at it, but really aren't.
Follow me so far? Spinning your head, blondie?
I'll list what the old QA system was, where the interpreters here are currently holding until June 2012 when it expires:
QA Level I Restricted Skill Level: demonstrated ability to interpret/transliterate communication between hearing and deaf or hard of hearing persons with a minimum of 60% accuracy.
Recommended mainly for one-to-one situations where the interpreter has the opportunity to stop communication for clarification.
Examples: Social/recreational situations, non-technical and informal meetings.
QA Level II Limited Skill Level: demonstrated ability to interpret/transliterate communication between hearing and deaf or hard of hearing persons with a minimum of 74% accuracy.
Recommended for one-to-one or small group situations where the interpreter may or may not the opportunity to stop communication for clarification.
Examples: Education/tutorial situations, informal meetings and daily living skills training.
The Detroit interpreters in 2006 held QA II.
QA Level III Intermediate Skill Level: demonstrated ability to interpret/transliterate communication between hearing and deaf or hard of hearing persons with a minimum of 88% accuracy.
Recommended for situations where there may not be an opportunity for the interpreter to stop communication for clarification.
Examples: education/tutorial situations, informal meetings and daily living skills, training, public meetings, interviews.
But they do NOT test for performance skills like plays or concerts. I find that disturbing and have objected many times that it should be a SEPARATE test on its own because it is very different to interpret in music and plays and the rules/policies are not the same. It requires for one to be musically inclined or the ability to express in an art form in addition to possessing ASL skills. Passion is a certainly a must in this area.
BEI system is different and I'm going to the workshop this Saturday to learn more about it.
EV: It's your band.
~Q Magazine
"Kisses for the glow...kisses for the lease." - BDRII
I didn't realize that I was not being clear. I am not very good at explaining things, especially when I'm mad. I totally suck at it!
But I'll try!
I'll answer to the best of my ability and let me know if that helps or not.
EV: It's your band.
~Q Magazine
"Kisses for the glow...kisses for the lease." - BDRII
Nobody should be scared of me... why are people afraid of me? :P
"Boo!" *shrieks, apologizes* :roll: Who am i gonna call - ebay or what?
I've said plenty, plenty of stupid things here on the board... worse than others... and it's sad that they are forever achieved somewhere on the internet that would come back and bit me in the ass later. Or haunt me. ha.
Sorry again about that... I was throwing different situations at different times, causing some confusion. One with the interpreters themselves and the interpreters at Video Relay Services companies. I threw both in and I can see how that caused some confusion. Some of the interpreters I was interviewing for PJ shows were working for VRS companies and wanted to do the interviews and work on PJ songs at their VRS company, rather than at home or at the agency that would pay them to do the PJ show.
There are different interpreters for each show, usually from the local hired by the venue or organization. For example, when i went to Cleveland to see PJ, the interpreters were hired by an agency through the venue. I tried to work with them one month prior to the show but they never contacted me, even though I gave them the information about PJ - their history, selections of songs I wanted them to listen to before coming to me to discuss on how to translate them into ASL because it could mean different things.
I'll give you one funny example for the Grand Rapids interpreter - who was excellent by the way - who did not want to work with me and preferred to work on her own research and interpretations of the songs. She only focused on the new album (Pearl Jam). Her interpretation of "Comatose" was erection. :oops:
That made me laugh so hard...but now that song is forever visually ruined for me. I listen to the song and I can't help but think of her erection sign! :evil:
Lollapalooza and Austin City Limits fall under the same organization so they are using the same interpreters from an agency. They were one of the BEST interpreters...but only for their own personal gain. Not really for advocating on our behalf and really wanting to give us access to the music like they say they do. :P They wanted to be the stars for the bands.
They all worked for VRS companies, as well as running their own or working for an interpreting agency. The interpreting agency was using the VRS company for phone calls. Get it? That is a big no no.
As for your question on who I am.... just another weird PJ fan like you all.
If I had the money, I would have had my own personal PJ interpreters for all the shows!
Pearl Jam has nothing to do with the interpreters at all. The places that provides the building has to provide interpreters according to ADA law and also pay for them. So they do have the power in choosing interpreters but I have to prove that they would be providing "effective communication" with "reasonable accommodations".
It is sometimes sticky or challenging in some situation. Often, people just say I need interpreters for this show on date...and they contact the agency whom they have contract with, who in turns looks for interpreters to do the job.
I wouldn't know what they looked like or what they are capable of until the day of the show. Which was the case for the 2006 shows, with the exception of Cincinnati show when the interpreters were willing to work with me ahead of time. It worked out beautifullly because I knew what they were capable of, despite the fact they couldn't get all the songs in. I was OK with that because they were honest with me and worked very hard on the ones I gave them with limited time - two weeks.
The FCC is still investigating the matter... matter of fact, one VRS here in MI is being investigated. It has just begun, this whole VRS mess.
EV: It's your band.
~Q Magazine
"Kisses for the glow...kisses for the lease." - BDRII
Oops. I kind of answered the 2nd question, but not really.
Honestly, on paper it could look good but doesn't mean they could do the job. The top interpreter could do very well anywhere but not plays and concerts.
Or just some certain plays or bands, for that matter.
I need to see their faces and hands...and ask them to perform for me... but unfortunately, it is NOT required. There's nothing in the rules or policies written that say I have the right to evaluate their skills to do the job. They are NOT required to work with me ahead of time, either.
We can however discuss via written e-mail on explaining their qualifications and skills and also discuss my expectations.
But it is up to them on how much to invest their time in preparing for the shows. It is very common for them to do it a few days - even the last night before the show -to prepare for the bands they are completely unfamiliar with. They aren't breaking any rules here and I can't do shit about that but to refuse their services again the next time because they weren't effective in providing me the full access to the show.
Interestingly, they are NOT required to provide the name of their agency. It is common that they refuse to disclosure the information for fear of bad reputation from the Deaf Community. But they do share with the media or hearing people.
However, I do have the right to know the names of the interpreters are and their qualifications/skills. Lollapalooza refused. The interpreters themselves lied to me over the weekend that they were there as independent interpreters coming in from Texas. I had to do my own investigation.
So I have to be clever and play the system in order to get the information I need and getting the venue, its contracted agency to get its interpreters to do what I need them to do.
I can use the ADA as a weapon, using effective communication with reasonable accommodations. Argue with the venue on how they would determine the effective communication if they didn't know ASL in order to determine their ability to do the job in order to provide me the access according to the ADA law.
It can be sticky and challenging as the case with Lolla because they DID provide the best and qualified interpreters.
But they were unethical and it was difficult to prove that. We finally managed to get a designated area in order to see the interpreters using effective communication. That was supposed to be the agency's job.
I filed complaint with the Texas agency, using the webcast from Lolla 07 where it showed one interpreter asking EV for a sip of wine. The interpreter is not supposed to be drinking on the job or stepping out of their roles on the job.
See, it would have been different if EV had offered her a sip of his wine and she wouldn't get in trouble.
They got the lawyers and it was decided that it couldn't be proven that it was wine. Could be juice or water. :P
Another proof provided was the interpreter in charge turned her back to the crowd to look at the band - while Eddie was TALKING!
And that it wasn't their fault but Lollapalooza for not providing a designated area in order for us to see them, never mind the alternative solution i offered to make it work to which they refused.
I later found out that there is a conflict of interest with some people in charge of overseeing and licensing the interpreters. They also work together elsewhere in the community on the board!
Fucked up, I tell you. :(
They cannot afford to lose the top interpreters because of the low supply and would go far in protecting them.
Very very very difficult to go after these interpreters and having them lose their certifications or punished.
Often, when interpreters are fired in a state, they move to another state to work and continue to do the same thing.
Some of them are here. :P
At the risk of sounding like a radical, Michigan has the most oppressed deaf people who are afraid to stand up and speak out. They are very easy to be controlled and intimidated.
At a board meeting during the public comment, one sweet old lady in her 70's came up to share her concerns regarding one interpreting agency who has 'taken over a lot of hospitals" and she "didn't like that".
We explained that while we all know that agency and do not like them either, but they are not breaking the law by doing that. It's capitalism.
"But they charge too much for their services!"
It's capitalism.
"But a lot of the interpreters are terrible! They can't interpret what the doctors say or what I say! They asked personal questions and shared information about other deaf people they interpreted for!"
NOW we are getting somewhere! We can look into that and file a complaint, request that there be an investigation with that agency.
"NOOOOO!!!! I don't want my name in this!!! Forget it!! These interpreters will hate me and make things worse for other senior citizens!!!"
*sighs*
Fucked up....
EV: It's your band.
~Q Magazine
"Kisses for the glow...kisses for the lease." - BDRII
You have done a great job filling in the pieces.
At the risk of being redundant, and for my own benefit let me take a stab at making some levels.
Level 1 - The perfect Musical Interpreter
Knows the band they are interpreting for intimately, have loved and enjoyed the music and have as many, if not more songs in their repertoire than most of us that post on this board.
They are artistically gifted and passionate about interpreting, and are totally focused on connecting the music to the audience in a designated area that has good sight lines. A true professional with mad skills.
As a real plus, perhaps this person even welcomes input from potential concert goers to focus even more attention on perhaps an extended song selection, but also take into account the fact that some of the concert goers might interpret a different meaning from certain songs, and work that into their performance.
Level 2 - 4 Somewhere between Level 1 and Level 5.
Level 5 - Qualified but terrible
Doesn't know the band very well, and made a minimal effort to learn some songs, but kill the meaning for many of the songs cause they don't care to do a good job. Perhaps even worse they value their moment being close to the band at the expense of focusing on the concert goers. They act petty, and star struck and the concert goer does not have a good experience cause the interpreter was totally lacking.
The real problem is no one cares, other than to satisfy the government requirements. A passionate fan is at the mercy of the venue, and then at the mercy of the corrupt groups that are hired and even with a concerted effort little might be known until showtime who the company will be and if you will get a qualified person.
Ok, now with all that said, and I probably fucked it up a bit, it seems like to get a really good person must be nearly impossible.
And I wonder should that person be paid to learn those songs while at work? I would say yes. If you had a good interpreter who was talented, I would think they should be paid upwards of 20 hours or more before a show to learn the songs.
Working on their own time does not sound fair, although of course that would be nice.
iammine, perhaps you might be the right person to start a small boutique service who finds talented people to interpret at shows?
I realize that is only half the battle as the whole system is broke. They really need a 4th designation for artistic interpretation.
And I don't know how much it pays to do a concert, but however much it is, I wonder if it is enough to get really talented people who are focused and professional?
That is a very good question, actually, Wilds.
There is differing opinions of what "reasonable" is - how many songs they should get in.
Pearl Jam are the most complicated band and sometimes i curse the day hubby exposed me to them in 1991. Would have been so easy to pick a band who write baby lyrics and playing the same setlist every show.
But yes, I think that is pretty reasonable myself. But again it depends on the time and effort they put into this if they are not familiar with PJ, even with their hits! Very few interpreters were familiar, from my experience, with their hits!! :?
But even if one only knew the hits, then yes that would be reasonable and would do the job better than most.
Those Texas interpreters were "perfect" for the job because they knew PJ material very well and had the skills for it as well.
Oh, I know... it doesn't surprise me. it just surprises me that other people outside of the community, that even when explained, they are like I got nothing to do with this... I don't want to touch this, it's too sensitive because of how we are perceived by the society - pitiful and disabled. Pfft. "You people take care of this." :roll:
Thanks, i appreciate it and again i apologize for the confusion. I'm really trying and will keep trying because i want people to understand. The more aware they become of this and they can point it out if they suspect something is not right and question.
Oh you made perfect sense, Wilds.
Thanks, Wilds... but I am very tired of it and don't want to deal with it anymore. Nashville show was the last show for me. Too much for me... especially if it doesn't do any good for the next patrons attending. For example, I heard for Lollapalooza 2009, things went back to "normal' for the said interpreters. All that hard work I did.... some of it went "poof*.
Almost always back to square one for each show. it's a hit and miss thing. Nashville was like a lottery for me.
It's best to hang onto the last and best show and go out like that.
However, I WILL be on the Access board for Rothbury festival next year. Going to be very interesting to see how things work out. Interpreters do NOT like us being involved when it comes to music and do not promote information to the Deaf Community so they can come. They share this information to other interpreters, ASL students who are studying to be interpreters, or their close deaf/hard of hearing friends who may or may not be involved with the Deaf Community.
I'm going to change all that - at least try to. Not going to be easy and already some interpreters hate me. There will be more who will hate me after Rothbury. :P
I don't give a flying fuck. I am there not to save my face or reputation, but to make sure the people gets the access they deserve in order to enjoy music like others.
For far too long, they were mocked and told that they did not have the ability to enjoy music like 'normal' people do. They all would rather hide.
I want to pull them out and tell them fuck 'em, you have the right to enjoy music as much as everyone else. They do NOT own the music. Music owns you.
However... my 14 yr old daughter is very very very excited about seeing PJ for the first time with her dad next year.
I thought about MSG shows... because for years she dreams about going to Japan. She loves their culture and draws cartoons. She wants to be a cartoonist or a doctor.
When she wasn't doing well in school two years ago, i told her if she got good grades and kept them up, I would look into student exchange program when she started high school (which is next year).
What happened? She has been getting straight A's.
So why NYC? I think it's a great place for some 'culture shock' experience for her and help her prepare for Japan if she goes. Mommy in me does not like the thought of that but it's my job to help prepare her to do what she needs and wants to do when she graduates from high school.
Don't know how it'll work out, but I always figure something out.
Thanks for listening, Wilds and please do ask questions for clarification. i am pretty terrible at explaining....
EV: It's your band.
~Q Magazine
"Kisses for the glow...kisses for the lease." - BDRII
I will answer shortly...
EV: It's your band.
~Q Magazine
"Kisses for the glow...kisses for the lease." - BDRII
Nice attempt in making me feel better but i'll take it anyhow.
Beautiful! Exactly.
Unfortunately, you are right....
This is an ongoing discussion amongst ourselves and the interpreters themselves. There isn't a workable solution, it seems like...
There were two top "performance" interpreters that I knew and befriended with .... I asked them to do 3 PJ shows with me. They are really very good at what they do - they love to interpret musical shows at colleges. But oooff.... they charge a lot, i mean a looot, for their services.
Because of their "highly specialized skills" and would lose other assignments if they focused for an entire month preparing for the 3 shows (Grand Rapids, Cleveland, & Detroit), they wanted $1,000 dollars per show for all the work they've put into.
And that's with the "discount" since i was a friend.
Of course the venues were like fuck that I'm not going to pay that much! If you want to pay the difference, go ahead. Of course I didn't have the money.
They declined. :P
But yes, it would be fair to pay them for the work they have put into on the songs. From the business' point of view, it's fair to set "standard" of say $250 to $500 dollars for 3 hours of show. Only focusing on the show itself, that is what - $83 dollars an hour for one interpreter. Some charge extra for the miles driven to the venue and parking fees, etc...
There is an argument of how much an hour an interpreter should earn per hour based on their qualification and skills. This is my own selfish point of view because i know the language... I'm going WTF? 50 dollars an hour?! Shit....I wish i could be an interpreter myself and earn that much money.
Some interpreter argue that they have to pay for their own health insurance...blah blah blah...
Oh there are already agencies out like that, Wilds.... like the ones i mentioned above. They will NOT do it for the pay set by the venues or organizations.
So even if I set up my own agency, it's doomed to fail. Not enough demand by the community, either...
Totally agree with you... but I don't have the right networking of people to do this. There are already people out there and I just have to hope one of them breaks through.
Many would think the Texas agency has done that....on the surface, they do. :P dammit....
See above, I think....
With so much corruption & greed & DRAMA.... it is hard for one to break through.
Look what happened to Texas folks. They totally fucked it up. IF they had done it right from the start, then we'd be somewhere....with more support from the community.
But what you've been saying is what many of us have been screaming about for years....
EV: It's your band.
~Q Magazine
"Kisses for the glow...kisses for the lease." - BDRII
One way to approach this might be from an individual band standpoint.
In some ways the problem here is Pearl Jam is too awesome/too talented for any run of the mill interpreter.
Because of the deep meaning in their lyrics and song, and because of the ever changing set lists and over 200 songs they are likely to play at any given time, I would guess they might understand that whatever service is usually provided is not adequate for what they bring to the table during a show.
Now you probably already tried, but perhaps as an extension of their creativity and generous nature, and as EV is already aware that this service is provided, the band could put up the difference to pay someone who was qualified and talented enough to handle their concert.
I mean $1000.00 is ridiculous if you or I were to pay it, but for the band, it really COULD BE, OR SHOULD BE, an ordinary expense that they provide.
It is completely reasonable, and given the lacking government guidelines, it would make sense for Pearl Jam to step up and provide an experience to ALL willing concert goers that was equal.
If you have already taken this approach then I would love to hear about how it went. If not, then perhaps a well written letter explaining your point of view would be helpful.
You have already thrown out not going to another show cause you already had a great experience and don't want to be let down.
Well the band should never let you down, IMO and they should realize that this is an important issue.
Yup yup yup...... and I don't expect the interpreters to be perfect either. I do not crucify them for the mistakes they' make - lyrically, I mean.
And it IS unrealistic to expect them to know all songs. I know that.
They never let me down as a band themselves - other than the access issues such as captions but they are getting better at this lately.
It's usually the interpreters or the system that lets me down.
Regarding your idea or suggestion - I'm cluck cluck cluck on that proposal and getting rejected. But I wouldn't take it personal because i can understand why. I just don't want to hear it directly from them. it wouldn't work out too well in the end from their business point of view and additional responsibilities.
Something that the ADA law should already take care of itself.
I've thought about that many times before, really....and there are really many issues and especially legal issues that they might not want to take on.
For one, are they responsible for the problems with the interpreters or the patrons having problems with them? It lies with the venue or agency.
For conversations' sake... are they responsible in paying for their hotels, health care coverage, etc in addition to the $1,000. We're talking about PER show here.
What if I decided to hit all 15 shows and request that they pay the interpreters? That's at least $15,000 dollars!
I tell the prospect employers who get scared at the sight of my interpreter walking in for an interview and I knew the cost was the first thing on his mind, you can write off the taxes and hello I'm also a special deductible if you hire me as an employee. *eyes flattering with white sparking spot on teeth*
Doesn't work anymore....not that young anymore.
They would have to draw up agreements with the interpreters on their roles and what they can do or can't do....such as sharing information in ASL.
Or or...the interpreters get all pissy because they have to lose assignments because there isn't a request for a certain show and they lost out money they could have earned? I'm looking from the interpreters' point of view here.
Stuff like that... it would be like starting a new business for them and we all know how much work 10c has already taken on.
How do they determine if the patrons really need the interpreters? Hearing people can lie and pretend to be requesting their services.
There were 13 people trying to pretend they knew sign language in order to get in the designated area at Lolla 08 and i had some of them kicked out.
More problems for 10c/PJ to deal with when we complain about not being able to get in the show. Could be a bad thing and bad PR for PJ.
That's a lot to ask for the sake of a few, unfortunately.
EV: It's your band.
~Q Magazine
"Kisses for the glow...kisses for the lease." - BDRII
That is a whole side I did not think about. Doesn't seem that there is any easy solution.
My head hurts just thinking about all that stuff. You must be extremely strong to deal with all that.
Thanks for all the info.
-Nate
Yeah, it is quite a lot to take in... oh the headaches I used to get...but you do get used to it dealing with this all the time. Not just at the concerts but other places. oh well.
I appreciated your inputs as well - it did make me think from another perspective and how to try to explain better the next time. Cool.
I'd really like to know if you do go to MSG and I'd like my daughter to meet you as well as hubby if they go, too.
Take care.
EV: It's your band.
~Q Magazine
"Kisses for the glow...kisses for the lease." - BDRII
I’m glad one other person is replying thou.
Being disabled myself I get tried of explaining my problems everyday but it has to be done. I’m glad you started this thread. people need to know, people should care. At the very least because anybody could become disabled at any given moment.
And two the disabled community gets NO MEDIA PRESS about their struggles. The 60's civil rights moment got plenty. Hello, there’s a group that got left behind! If people knew that’s it’s like, the crap we go thru, they’d be shocked.
But anyway, the fact that every state has a different standard for interpreters is just plain wrong to me.
And that lady that didn’t want to speak up. Makes me so angry! Thanks for helping the disabled community progress. NOTTT!!
Have I told you I loved you today?
Oh how I wish you were in the position instead of that idiot disabled man (who has CP like you) at the state level, who was just as responsible for the interpreter messes!
I was just telling Blondie here a story a while back... how me and 4 leaders had a private meeting with him, along with 2 state interpreters (whom are also in charge of the interpreter laws and involved with testing interpreters) on our concern on the permanent closing of a Deaf Director due to budget cuts.
To save the costs, let the interpreters take over that responsibilities and representing us. Oh hell no!
This guy was full of shit and was all over the interpreters, fondling them right in front of us.
We were told it was a CP thing. I was like yeah right!
I wish I had a camera and embarrass the hell out of him!
But anyway at a public hearing meeting where he announced they'd be re-opening the position and finding a deaf person filling in instead of the interpreters (after being blackmailed with the threats of exposing his dirty work, from what I heard) - he behaved just normal at that meeting and wasn't touchy like that private meeting.
Told ya there's so much drama... too bad, Blondie, you'd have kicked his ass!
We could have worked together better and get shit done!
EV: It's your band.
~Q Magazine
"Kisses for the glow...kisses for the lease." - BDRII
Cool. If it's in the cards that would be great.
Boston is more likely if it happens, but MSG X2 and Boston X3 would be nice
As for the rates the interpreters are requesting, I can speak a little bit to that. I have done some simultaneous (oral) interpretation, and it is demanding work. Some 14-15 years ago, I was working in Seattle and hiring court interpreters for some litigation our office was handling. The going rate was $45-50 per hour, so I am not at all surprised that you are encountering interpreters who want $50 per hour. Granted, I do not know how the demands of interpreting for the deaf compare with oral interpretation, but the rates do not seem at all out of line to me, even for an economically depressed area like Detroit.
Hahaha
I’m not deaf but I know of the problems you’re describing. You are kinda rambley but you make perfect sense to me.
Sounds like PJ or the venue needs to hire top notch interrupters.
(and Ed needs to keep his hands off them) lmao!
So that being said how can you make that happen for the events you go to?
PS That guy needs to be sued for sexual harassment sounds like. No?
No problem.... if you wanted to understand something and ask, I'll do my best. Or I'd ask Wilds to help out... he is getting it.
You are right, it is demanding work. Oral or signing interpretation.
Like I said it was from a selfish point of view...not everyone agrees with me, even my peer. They think it's a reasonable hourly wages.
There are some agencies that do charge, in my opinion, way too much to cover for the operational and expenses costs before seeing the profit.
For instance, some agencies do charge $180 to 250 - even more, to send out their interpreters in the field. All require a minimum of 2 hours.
You are also right, the rates are not the same everywhere. When I was looking into an agency for the San Diego and came across this information:
"Sign Language Interpreting services are provided on a fee-for-service basis. DCS does not have the funding to provide free sign language interpreting services. Our basic day rate is $150.00 per hour, with a 2-hour minimum, plus a charge for travel and parking. Rates for evenings, weekends, and holidays are at other rates."
Yet another agency in the same city charged $100 per hr plus fees.... seems cheaper, but that's for ONE interpreter. Charge more if additional interpreters are working as a team. Oof.
One agency here is greedy to the point where they'd spend so much time looking for shitty interpreters and charge the same across the board (to the clients, not the interpreters) so they can profit more.
Just like any other businesses would do... or even compete with lower prices with shitty interpreters to attract clients.
I do understand how demanding the work is - I grew up with them in educational settings and outside.
EV: It's your band.
~Q Magazine
"Kisses for the glow...kisses for the lease." - BDRII
that kind of answers my question. you did all you can do i guess.
that makes my think........
pj didn't want to make music videos because they wanted people to have their own imaging.
if they knew everytime you thought of an erection everytime you heard comatose, i would love to hear their thoughts on that. pj should care who interprets their shows especailly considering how they feel about music videos.
hey.........i bet people reading this are wondering why would a deaf person would want to go to a concert.
tell them.
i know already. hehehe
Oh I know I ramble on too much... I really wish someone was sitting here and smacking my head.
Too long! Make it shorter! Get to your points! Stupid fuck...
Oh I am not surprised you get it...
LMFAO @ EV keeping his hands off them.... don't think some interpreters would like that suggestion!
What I do for every time I need an interpreter and there is a lot of time before that event, I make every effort to contact the interpreters and discuss with them to ensure things would work out smoothly without any problems or setbacks. Basically, communication is the key.
P.S. Hahaha, no shit! Just wait.... one of these days, he will be exposed with evidences collected against him. We'll see... and no, it's not ME. :silent:
EV: It's your band.
~Q Magazine
"Kisses for the glow...kisses for the lease." - BDRII
You make an excellent point that I didn't think of before... but seems like now they are not as concerned as before. Unless they want to look for that same interpreter for the viagra commerical.
If they were very familiar with working with interpreters and comfortable with it - especially with the same ones over and over... I could see this happening where the band discuss with the interpreters about the concept interpretations of the songs.
That would make things easier for the interpreters, for sure.
They didn't ask and I ain't explaining.
EV: It's your band.
~Q Magazine
"Kisses for the glow...kisses for the lease." - BDRII
lamo!
it be cool if they could pick one good interpreter to go on tour with them. but that would really make em divas like you were saying. and it'd be expensive too.
oh poo.
i only said because ON HERE people were asking once and here's the chance to hear it from the horses mouth.
Oh, I and others would be in heaven if that ever happened!
cluck cluck cluck. :angel:
EV: It's your band.
~Q Magazine
"Kisses for the glow...kisses for the lease." - BDRII
When somebody asked me why do deaf people even go to concerts:
I said it was some deaf people are not completely deaf. Also, they love to feel vibrations from the beat.
You are right, there are various types of hearing losses even when they say they are deaf. Some think they hear absolutely nothing. That is true in my case!
And the 2nd part is very true! And the visualization helps too... especially in ASL where we can feel the emotions of the songs by watching the interpreters.
I really really hate my husband for embarrassing me when he wrote a letter to 10c thanking them for everything they did to make the experience wonderful for us in Nashville... and after talking about how awesome it was for me to have received the device (digital FM system plugged into my cochlear implant) that thrilled me...
...by saying no more to dancing to the jiggly keys to the tire commercial on the radio in his car!
:twisted: :oops:
"Oh have a sense of humor, honey...they'll get a kick out of that!"
"Fuck you...."
EV: It's your band.
~Q Magazine
"Kisses for the glow...kisses for the lease." - BDRII
i just read through this post from the start,,, i get it now. i see your anger ... and i do feel sorry for you and others like you ..not cause your hard of hearing/deaf.....more like ... you dont "attend" the same show i do...you know what i mean.......and at the same time i feel like im missing out on something ..
i also wanna say thank you for bringing this to my attention .. keep us posted on the investigations