Kansas City 7.03.98
St. Louis 10.11.00
Kansas City 10.12.00
St. Louis 4.22.03
Kansas City 6.12.03
St. Louis 10.5.04
Kansas City 5.3.10 Phoenix (EV) 4.13.12
Phoenix (EV) 11.4.12
Phoenix 11.19.13
Wrigley 1 8.20.16 Seattle 1 8.8.18 Phoenix 4.11.20 Phoenix 5.9.22 Indianapolis 9.10.23 Los Angeles 1 5.22.24 Indianapolis 8.26.24
Did you ever join the Kickstarter where they funded their record? Pollygonwanaland. I got to join on that one.
No, I just recently started getting into them. Am definitely keeping an eye out moving forward in hopes that they do more stuff like that. I do own Pollygonwannaland though, and love how it's just as diverse as all of their stuff.
Kansas City 7.03.98
St. Louis 10.11.00
Kansas City 10.12.00
St. Louis 4.22.03
Kansas City 6.12.03
St. Louis 10.5.04
Kansas City 5.3.10 Phoenix (EV) 4.13.12
Phoenix (EV) 11.4.12
Phoenix 11.19.13
Wrigley 1 8.20.16 Seattle 1 8.8.18 Phoenix 4.11.20 Phoenix 5.9.22 Indianapolis 9.10.23 Los Angeles 1 5.22.24 Indianapolis 8.26.24
What is everyone's opinion on the debate surrounding Mobile Fidelity? Apparently the rumor is that for years they have mislead consumers by not being transparent about their mastering process and that they've been using digital at some point during the vinyl production process. There are some videos that are supposed to be released on YouTube later this week that clarify things but it just sounds like a PR nightmare for MoFi. Will be interesting to see what happens from here. Pretty much the worst news they could have hoped for with the recent news of their upcoming record plant opening in California.
Virginia Beach 2000 DC 2003 DC 2004 (VFC) DC 2006 Pittsburgh 2006 Bonnaroo 2008 Virginia Beach 2008 DC 2008 Philly (Spectrum) 10/31/2009 DC 2010 (Jiffy Lube Live) PJ 20 night 1 PJ 20 night 2 Phoenix 2013 LA 1 2013 Memphis 2014 Jacksonville 2016 Greenville 2016 Hampton 2016 Columbia 2016 Fenway 1 2016 Fenway 2 2016 Wrigley 1 2018 Wrigley 2 2018 Fenway 1 2018 Fenway 2 2018 Sea Hear Now 2021 Nashville 2022 Louisville 2022
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,706
What is everyone's opinion on the debate surrounding Mobile Fidelity? Apparently the rumor is that for years they have mislead consumers by not being transparent about their mastering process and that they've been using digital at some point during the vinyl production process. There are some videos that are supposed to be released on YouTube later this week that clarify things but it just sounds like a PR nightmare for MoFi. Will be interesting to see what happens from here. Pretty much the worst news they could have hoped for with the recent news of their upcoming record plant opening in California.
using digital sources while claiming outright analog?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
What is everyone's opinion on the debate surrounding Mobile Fidelity? Apparently the rumor is that for years they have mislead consumers by not being transparent about their mastering process and that they've been using digital at some point during the vinyl production process. There are some videos that are supposed to be released on YouTube later this week that clarify things but it just sounds like a PR nightmare for MoFi. Will be interesting to see what happens from here. Pretty much the worst news they could have hoped for with the recent news of their upcoming record plant opening in California.
using digital sources while claiming outright analog?
Pretty much. A lot of the controversy started when people began question just how they could pull off a One Step of Thriller with 40,000 copies if it was going to be all analog because Sony is notorious for being very strict about their master tapes and that is a lot of copies any way you look at it. Here are some videos on the debate-
Is this criticism about MOFI broadly, or only about the One Steps? I ask because I know Brothers in Arms is all digital and I bet that's one of the best selling MOFI's ever.
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,706
What is everyone's opinion on the debate surrounding Mobile Fidelity? Apparently the rumor is that for years they have mislead consumers by not being transparent about their mastering process and that they've been using digital at some point during the vinyl production process. There are some videos that are supposed to be released on YouTube later this week that clarify things but it just sounds like a PR nightmare for MoFi. Will be interesting to see what happens from here. Pretty much the worst news they could have hoped for with the recent news of their upcoming record plant opening in California.
using digital sources while claiming outright analog?
Pretty much. A lot of the controversy started when people began question just how they could pull off a One Step of Thriller with 40,000 copies if it was going to be all analog because Sony is notorious for being very strict about their master tapes and that is a lot of copies any way you look at it. Here are some videos on the debate-
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Is this criticism about MOFI broadly, or only about the One Steps? I ask because I know Brothers in Arms is all digital and I bet that's one of the best selling MOFI's ever.
Its funny that everyone has to say their pieces only to inevitably land on the reasonable conclusion, "Well they sound fantastic, I just wish they were transparent about the process". God bless these bored old white dudes.
Its funny that everyone has to say their pieces only to inevitably land on the reasonable conclusion, "Well they sound fantastic, I just wish they were transparent about the process". God bless these bored old white dudes.
Exactly. If something sounds good it sounds good. Does it matter if a company mislead consumers and should they be held accountable for that? Yes, of course. It's just a crazy situation. I'm having fun just watching it all unfold.
Virginia Beach 2000 DC 2003 DC 2004 (VFC) DC 2006 Pittsburgh 2006 Bonnaroo 2008 Virginia Beach 2008 DC 2008 Philly (Spectrum) 10/31/2009 DC 2010 (Jiffy Lube Live) PJ 20 night 1 PJ 20 night 2 Phoenix 2013 LA 1 2013 Memphis 2014 Jacksonville 2016 Greenville 2016 Hampton 2016 Columbia 2016 Fenway 1 2016 Fenway 2 2016 Wrigley 1 2018 Wrigley 2 2018 Fenway 1 2018 Fenway 2 2018 Sea Hear Now 2021 Nashville 2022 Louisville 2022
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,691
edited July 2022
As a never-bored old white dude, here's my 2 cents: Funny thing is, I've been reading criticisms about various MOFI releases on Discogs for years. Not all, of course, but several. But then, whole thing is a moot point for me anyway because, to the best of my knowledge, I don't own a single MOFI LP.
I do have 6 Analogue Productions LPs (all Beach Boys), and they sound great but they were affordable at the time I got them. Nowadays though, with the price of audiophile pressings being what they currently are, I would probably not buy them today. But then, I'm lucky enough to have a lot of early pressings of various LPs, a lot of them from the pre-digital LP era, and they're generally terrific sounding records made back when any poor working stiff could afford them. The whole vinyl things is another world these days.
Post edited by brianlux on
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
As a never-bored old white dude, here's my 2 cents: Funny thing is, I've been reading criticisms about various MOFI releases on Discogs for years. Not all, of course, but several. But then, whole thing is a moot point for me anyway because, to the best of my knowledge, I don't own a single MOFI LP.
I do have 6 Analogue Productions LPs (all Beach Boys), and they sound great but they were affordable at the time I got them. Nowadays though, with the price of audiophile pressings being what they currently are, I would probably not buy them today. But then, I'm lucky enough to have a lot of early pressings of various LPs, a lot of them from the pre-digital LP era, and they're generally terrific sounding records made back when any poor working stiff could afford them. The whole vinyl things is another world these days.
Recording in analog I thought was simple? Why the hell does it cost so much now? Price gimmick?
As a never-bored old white dude, here's my 2 cents: Funny thing is, I've been reading criticisms about various MOFI releases on Discogs for years. Not all, of course, but several. But then, whole thing is a moot point for me anyway because, to the best of my knowledge, I don't own a single MOFI LP.
I do have 6 Analogue Productions LPs (all Beach Boys), and they sound great but they were affordable at the time I got them. Nowadays though, with the price of audiophile pressings being what they currently are, I would probably not buy them today. But then, I'm lucky enough to have a lot of early pressings of various LPs, a lot of them from the pre-digital LP era, and they're generally terrific sounding records made back when any poor working stiff could afford them. The whole vinyl things is another world these days.
Recording in analog I thought was simple? Why the hell does it cost so much now? Price gimmick?
Well it's not that it cost so much more, but recording, mixing, editing in digital format is just so cheap. Plus you don't have to store it. Think about the infamous fire that destroyed all of those masters. Never happen in digital.
They could just say what the actual process is for each record and be more transparent about it. If there is a digital step for a record just say so and let us decide if we want that record or not. I don't get the cloak and dagger approach but I'm sure if they're more upfront about it that their sales may suffer as a consequence due to the fact that so many are seeking out true AAA sourced vinyl. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out. I'll keep buying some of their stuff when I can afford to because ea h one of their releases that I have sound great and I don't really care that much about source for most releases as long as the quality is there.
Virginia Beach 2000 DC 2003 DC 2004 (VFC) DC 2006 Pittsburgh 2006 Bonnaroo 2008 Virginia Beach 2008 DC 2008 Philly (Spectrum) 10/31/2009 DC 2010 (Jiffy Lube Live) PJ 20 night 1 PJ 20 night 2 Phoenix 2013 LA 1 2013 Memphis 2014 Jacksonville 2016 Greenville 2016 Hampton 2016 Columbia 2016 Fenway 1 2016 Fenway 2 2016 Wrigley 1 2018 Wrigley 2 2018 Fenway 1 2018 Fenway 2 2018 Sea Hear Now 2021 Nashville 2022 Louisville 2022
As a never-bored old white dude, here's my 2 cents: Funny thing is, I've been reading criticisms about various MOFI releases on Discogs for years. Not all, of course, but several. But then, whole thing is a moot point for me anyway because, to the best of my knowledge, I don't own a single MOFI LP.
I do have 6 Analogue Productions LPs (all Beach Boys), and they sound great but they were affordable at the time I got them. Nowadays though, with the price of audiophile pressings being what they currently are, I would probably not buy them today. But then, I'm lucky enough to have a lot of early pressings of various LPs, a lot of them from the pre-digital LP era, and they're generally terrific sounding records made back when any poor working stiff could afford them. The whole vinyl things is another world these days.
Recording in analog I thought was simple? Why the hell does it cost so much now? Price gimmick?
Well it's not that it cost so much more, but recording, mixing, editing in digital format is just so cheap. Plus you don't have to store it. Think about the infamous fire that destroyed all of those masters. Never happen in digital.
Gotcha. Can't you use a DAC or some shit to convert it back though? I thought that was the purpose of those things...
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,691
As a never-bored old white dude, here's my 2 cents: Funny thing is, I've been reading criticisms about various MOFI releases on Discogs for years. Not all, of course, but several. But then, whole thing is a moot point for me anyway because, to the best of my knowledge, I don't own a single MOFI LP.
I do have 6 Analogue Productions LPs (all Beach Boys), and they sound great but they were affordable at the time I got them. Nowadays though, with the price of audiophile pressings being what they currently are, I would probably not buy them today. But then, I'm lucky enough to have a lot of early pressings of various LPs, a lot of them from the pre-digital LP era, and they're generally terrific sounding records made back when any poor working stiff could afford them. The whole vinyl things is another world these days.
Recording in analog I thought was simple? Why the hell does it cost so much now? Price gimmick?
Apparently part of the reason is the cost of tape these days. In a thread he started on his own site, mastering engineer Steve Hoffman said, "Blowing a lacquer is common these days now that the old-timers are retiring, sadly." Unless a new generation of engineers and others involved in the process of making analogue records start to show up, I'm wondering if this seeming return to analogue vinyl will be short lived? What with all the younger generation folks being into downloading and other digital formats (including listening to music on an iPhone which really has me perplexed), I'm a bit surprised this has even happened at all. I honestly don't know how much of it is simply a fad, a distraction, or impulse buying or what.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I mean, it didn't go away when people wrote it off as dead (1990-2010). It will stick around. Yeah, maybe audiophile releases and stuff cut before the 1980s may be more highly valued because people can't cut like that anymore, but its not going anywhere anymore.
I mean, I hope people like Hoffman, Grey, and Grundman are taking on apprentices. Because if not, they are just as much to blame. There are plenty of people cutting records, if you don't like their work, teach them how to be better.
As a never-bored old white dude, here's my 2 cents: Funny thing is, I've been reading criticisms about various MOFI releases on Discogs for years. Not all, of course, but several. But then, whole thing is a moot point for me anyway because, to the best of my knowledge, I don't own a single MOFI LP.
I do have 6 Analogue Productions LPs (all Beach Boys), and they sound great but they were affordable at the time I got them. Nowadays though, with the price of audiophile pressings being what they currently are, I would probably not buy them today. But then, I'm lucky enough to have a lot of early pressings of various LPs, a lot of them from the pre-digital LP era, and they're generally terrific sounding records made back when any poor working stiff could afford them. The whole vinyl things is another world these days.
Recording in analog I thought was simple? Why the hell does it cost so much now? Price gimmick?
Well it's not that it cost so much more, but recording, mixing, editing in digital format is just so cheap. Plus you don't have to store it. Think about the infamous fire that destroyed all of those masters. Never happen in digital.
Gotcha. Can't you use a DAC or some shit to convert it back though? I thought that was the purpose of those things...
Well once it is digital, it will never be AAA again. The chain is corrupted.
A DAC is always used when dealing with digital music. You can't hear digital music, it's only bytes of data. The DAC is what converts those bytes into something audible. Your phone has a DAC, your CD player, your pc, etc.
I mean, it didn't go away when people wrote it off as dead (1990-2010). It will stick around. Yeah, maybe audiophile releases and stuff cut before the 1980s may be more highly valued because people can't cut like that anymore, but its not going anywhere anymore.
I mean, I hope people like Hoffman, Grey, and Grundman are taking on apprentices. Because if not, they are just as much to blame. There are plenty of people cutting records, if you don't like their work, teach them how to be better.
Ryan K Smith is pretty young. He looks early 40's. I think he's every bit as good as Hoffman and BG. Maybe....a step behind KPG. But he'll be the one to do the good stuff once KPG retires.
Doesn’t mofi already do digital? I thought they differentiate by the “silver label” as I assumed those were digital as that’s when the original master tapes aren’t available.
I’m assume they could do a one step from a silver label release. As one step is just how they are pressing it, not the source material I thought
I mean, it didn't go away when people wrote it off as dead (1990-2010). It will stick around. Yeah, maybe audiophile releases and stuff cut before the 1980s may be more highly valued because people can't cut like that anymore, but its not going anywhere anymore.
I mean, I hope people like Hoffman, Grey, and Grundman are taking on apprentices. Because if not, they are just as much to blame. There are plenty of people cutting records, if you don't like their work, teach them how to be better.
You have to have an ear for it though. There are producers/engineers that have a shit ear. You wonder what they were trying to get out of some things...
I'd love to to do that as I believe I have an ear for it.
Doesn’t mofi already do digital? I thought they differentiate by the “silver label” as I assumed those were digital as that’s when the original master tapes aren’t available.
I’m assume they could do a one step from a silver label release. As one step is just how they are pressing it, not the source material I thought
I think One Step means master tape right to the lacquer. But the lacquer is only going to have limited stamping ability before it degrades. AP claims to limit its stamping to 1000 presses. So that's the point of the criticism above. How can you have a One Step and do 40k pressings without having to go back to the master tape over and over again, which would degrade it?
If I'm wrong in my assessment, someone correct me.
And yes, some MOFI is known digital. I brought up the Brothers in Arms which was never recorded to tape, but has been pressed a bunch of times by MOFI.
Doesn’t mofi already do digital? I thought they differentiate by the “silver label” as I assumed those were digital as that’s when the original master tapes aren’t available.
I’m assume they could do a one step from a silver label release. As one step is just how they are pressing it, not the source material I thought
I think One Step means master tape right to the lacquer. But the lacquer is only going to have limited stamping ability before it degrades. AP claims to limit its stamping to 1000 presses. So that's the point of the criticism above. How can you have a One Step and do 40k pressings without having to go back to the master tape over and over again, which would degrade it?
If I'm wrong in my assessment, someone correct me.
And yes, some MOFI is known digital. I brought up the Brothers in Arms which was never recorded to tape, but has been pressed a bunch of times by MOFI.
I didn’t know that you had to go back to the masters every time. So yeah that sounds suspicious if you are pressing 40k records and have to go back to the tapes 40 times
I haven’t ever seen a mofi release with a production number that high either. Certainly not one step
Doesn’t mofi already do digital? I thought they differentiate by the “silver label” as I assumed those were digital as that’s when the original master tapes aren’t available.
I’m assume they could do a one step from a silver label release. As one step is just how they are pressing it, not the source material I thought
I think One Step means master tape right to the lacquer. But the lacquer is only going to have limited stamping ability before it degrades. AP claims to limit its stamping to 1000 presses. So that's the point of the criticism above. How can you have a One Step and do 40k pressings without having to go back to the master tape over and over again, which would degrade it?
If I'm wrong in my assessment, someone correct me.
And yes, some MOFI is known digital. I brought up the Brothers in Arms which was never recorded to tape, but has been pressed a bunch of times by MOFI.
I didn’t know that you had to go back to the masters every time. So yeah that sounds suspicious if you are pressing 40k records and have to go back to the tapes 40 times
I haven’t ever seen a mofi release with a production number that high either. Certainly not one step
To be clear, I'm not saying MOFI limits their stamping to 1k. AP does on certain releases and that's a claim to fame, or something that people value. I don't know how many MOFI tries to get out of each stamper, but certainly it isn't going to be 20 or 30k.
Comments
St. Louis 10.11.00
Kansas City 10.12.00
St. Louis 4.22.03
Kansas City 6.12.03
St. Louis 10.5.04
Kansas City 5.3.10
Phoenix (EV) 4.13.12
Phoenix (EV) 11.4.12
Phoenix 11.19.13
Wrigley 1 8.20.16
Seattle 1 8.8.18
Phoenix 4.11.20
Phoenix 5.9.22
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Los Angeles 1 5.22.24
Indianapolis 8.26.24
St. Louis 10.11.00
Kansas City 10.12.00
St. Louis 4.22.03
Kansas City 6.12.03
St. Louis 10.5.04
Kansas City 5.3.10
Phoenix (EV) 4.13.12
Phoenix (EV) 11.4.12
Phoenix 11.19.13
Wrigley 1 8.20.16
Seattle 1 8.8.18
Phoenix 4.11.20
Phoenix 5.9.22
Indianapolis 9.10.23
Los Angeles 1 5.22.24
Indianapolis 8.26.24
DC 2003
DC 2004 (VFC)
DC 2006
Pittsburgh 2006
Bonnaroo 2008
Virginia Beach 2008
DC 2008
Philly (Spectrum) 10/31/2009
DC 2010 (Jiffy Lube Live)
PJ 20 night 1
PJ 20 night 2
Phoenix 2013
LA 1 2013
Memphis 2014
Jacksonville 2016
Greenville 2016
Hampton 2016
Columbia 2016
Fenway 1 2016
Fenway 2 2016
Wrigley 1 2018
Wrigley 2 2018
Fenway 1 2018
Fenway 2 2018
Sea Hear Now 2021
Nashville 2022
Louisville 2022
using digital sources while claiming outright analog?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
DC 2003
DC 2004 (VFC)
DC 2006
Pittsburgh 2006
Bonnaroo 2008
Virginia Beach 2008
DC 2008
Philly (Spectrum) 10/31/2009
DC 2010 (Jiffy Lube Live)
PJ 20 night 1
PJ 20 night 2
Phoenix 2013
LA 1 2013
Memphis 2014
Jacksonville 2016
Greenville 2016
Hampton 2016
Columbia 2016
Fenway 1 2016
Fenway 2 2016
Wrigley 1 2018
Wrigley 2 2018
Fenway 1 2018
Fenway 2 2018
Sea Hear Now 2021
Nashville 2022
Louisville 2022
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
DC 2003
DC 2004 (VFC)
DC 2006
Pittsburgh 2006
Bonnaroo 2008
Virginia Beach 2008
DC 2008
Philly (Spectrum) 10/31/2009
DC 2010 (Jiffy Lube Live)
PJ 20 night 1
PJ 20 night 2
Phoenix 2013
LA 1 2013
Memphis 2014
Jacksonville 2016
Greenville 2016
Hampton 2016
Columbia 2016
Fenway 1 2016
Fenway 2 2016
Wrigley 1 2018
Wrigley 2 2018
Fenway 1 2018
Fenway 2 2018
Sea Hear Now 2021
Nashville 2022
Louisville 2022
Funny thing is, I've been reading criticisms about various MOFI releases on Discogs for years. Not all, of course, but several. But then, whole thing is a moot point for me anyway because, to the best of my knowledge, I don't own a single MOFI LP.
DC 2003
DC 2004 (VFC)
DC 2006
Pittsburgh 2006
Bonnaroo 2008
Virginia Beach 2008
DC 2008
Philly (Spectrum) 10/31/2009
DC 2010 (Jiffy Lube Live)
PJ 20 night 1
PJ 20 night 2
Phoenix 2013
LA 1 2013
Memphis 2014
Jacksonville 2016
Greenville 2016
Hampton 2016
Columbia 2016
Fenway 1 2016
Fenway 2 2016
Wrigley 1 2018
Wrigley 2 2018
Fenway 1 2018
Fenway 2 2018
Sea Hear Now 2021
Nashville 2022
Louisville 2022
Apparently part of the reason is the cost of tape these days.
In a thread he started on his own site, mastering engineer Steve Hoffman said, "Blowing a lacquer is common these days now that the old-timers are retiring, sadly." Unless a new generation of engineers and others involved in the process of making analogue records start to show up, I'm wondering if this seeming return to analogue vinyl will be short lived? What with all the younger generation folks being into downloading and other digital formats (including listening to music on an iPhone which really has me perplexed), I'm a bit surprised this has even happened at all. I honestly don't know how much of it is simply a fad, a distraction, or impulse buying or what.
I mean, I hope people like Hoffman, Grey, and Grundman are taking on apprentices. Because if not, they are just as much to blame. There are plenty of people cutting records, if you don't like their work, teach them how to be better.
A DAC is always used when dealing with digital music. You can't hear digital music, it's only bytes of data. The DAC is what converts those bytes into something audible. Your phone has a DAC, your CD player, your pc, etc.
I’m assume they could do a one step from a silver label release. As one step is just how they are pressing it, not the source material I thought
I'd love to to do that as I believe I have an ear for it.
If I'm wrong in my assessment, someone correct me.
And yes, some MOFI is known digital. I brought up the Brothers in Arms which was never recorded to tape, but has been pressed a bunch of times by MOFI.
I haven’t ever seen a mofi release with a production number that high either. Certainly not one step