Backspacer sales numbers?

pjsyco

BF25394 wrote:

inlet13 wrote:

I think Sade is a person, not a group. The reason I think Sade does so well is that older people dig easy listening and that's what she does. Also, older peeps have money and they don't understand downloading singles.

Therefore, they buy the entire CD. Rather than just one or two tunes from it. That's my take anyhow.

So, how did PJ do this week?

Sade is a band named after its lead singer. And, yes, it's not "hard rock," but it is still rock.

I agree with your take on why Sade's album sales have not eroded like most other bands, but it's another thing to actually see a big sales increase in this environment. There are plenty of tech-savvy people in their 30s and 40s who like Sade and who know how to download from iTunes.

Sade, rock? Nothing like a little "Smooth Operator" to get me going!

Wilds

pjsyco wrote:

BF25394 wrote:

inlet13 wrote:

I think Sade is a person, not a group. The reason I think Sade does so well is that older people dig easy listening and that's what she does. Also, older peeps have money and they don't understand downloading singles.

Therefore, they buy the entire CD. Rather than just one or two tunes from it. That's my take anyhow.

So, how did PJ do this week?

Sade is a band named after its lead singer. And, yes, it's not "hard rock," but it is still rock.

I agree with your take on why Sade's album sales have not eroded like most other bands, but it's another thing to actually see a big sales increase in this environment. There are plenty of tech-savvy people in their 30s and 40s who like Sade and who know how to download from iTunes.

Sade, rock? Nothing like a little "Smooth Operator" to get me going!

Here is the Wiki run down of Sade.

"Sade (pronounced /ʃɑːˈdeɪ/ shah-DAY) is an English R&B band that formed in 1983. The band's music features elements of R&B, soul, jazz, funk and soft rock. The band is named after its British Nigerian lead vocalist, Sade Adu."


I would say R&B defines this group. Rock and Roll..... not so much.

J.

BF25394 wrote:

Sade's "Soldier Of Love" sold more copies-- 502,000-- in its first week than "Backspacer" has in 21 weeks. Wow. Sade has to be the most under-the-radar big-selling rock act on the planet. They have released eight albums, including six studio albums, and every one has hit the top ten in the U.S. At a time when everyone's sales are in decline, they saw a huge increase in first-week sales over their last album (370,000), which was released before the download boom. Every one of their five previous studio albums is at least triple-platinum.

As you know from my posts, I pay pretty close attention to this kind of stuff for professional and personal reasons. Yet I had no idea about any of what was in that first paragraph until I read it today. Sade-- the Stealth Superstars.

Yeah Sade Adu is the singer that the band is named after. Also it is def not rock, but R&B....

I agree with another poster that the target audience is a bit older and willing to buy cd's plus those that do buy the albums probably aren't hosting them on many torrent sites or trying to get a leak out there for the masses to hear prior to release. Plus a lot of their hits still get a good amount of radio play, these hits span all albums, where as PJ gets the same hits from Ten played over and over with a few from the other albums being sprinkled in mostly on PJ " friendly " radio stations.

I also agree with the Target statement..who the heck buys cd's from Target? They sure aren't my 1st choice. Everything I buy is from my local mom & pop shop..everything else I get from the net! )

BF25394

James Brown, Aretha Franklin, The Coasters, The Supremes, The Drifters, The Temptations, The Four Tops and countless other R&B acts are in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Rock is a very broad category. Listen to "Soldier Of Love," Sade's current single. There's no way you can credibly tell me that's not rock.

As long as we're quoting Wikipedia, here is its entry on "rock music":

"The sound of rock often revolves around the guitar back beat laid down by a rhythm section of electric bass guitar, drums, and keyboard instruments such as organ, piano, or, since the 1970s, synthesizers.

...

In the late 1960s and early 1970s, rock music developed different subgenres. When it was blended with folk music it created folk rock, with blues to create blues-rock and with jazz, to create jazz-rock fusion. In the 1970s, rock incorporated influences from soul, funk, and Latin music. Also in the 1970s, rock developed a number of subgenres, such as soft rock, glam rock, heavy metal, hard rock, progressive rock, and punk rock. Rock subgenres that emerged in the 1980s included new wave, hardcore punk and alternative rock. In the 1990s, rock subgenres included grunge, Britpop, indie rock, and nu metal."

BF25394

DS114969 wrote:

I think because Target is the only major retailer it's available at (and who buys cds at Target?) and the lack of promotion.

Bingo.

wnh1977

Backspacer has to be closing in on 500,000 sold here in the US. I think the US album sales can be determined a success at this point.

Pearl Jam apparently liked the deal they struck with Target. Some people on here claim that deal has had a negative effect on total sales, but Pearl Jam apparently liked other aspects of the agreement. By today's standards, meaning today's fledgling music industry, I think 500,000 is a success no matter how you decide to distribute the album. Not too many million-sellers these days.

I would've liked to see a Letterman appearance or a Saturday Night Live appearance... a performance of "Just Breathe" on SNL as the song was enjoying radio success might've pushed a few more units. Maybe they'll still do these shows and release another single, who knows? I'm guessing Pearl Jam is completely comfortable with the amount of promotiong they're doing and trying to keep up with the times as far as a way they feel comfortable in distributing future albums.

J.

BF25394 wrote:

James Brown, Aretha Franklin, The Coasters, The Supremes, The Drifters, The Temptations, The Four Tops and countless other R&B acts are in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Rock is a very broad category. Listen to "Soldier Of Love," Sade's current single. There's no way you can credibly tell me that's not rock.

As long as we're quoting Wikipedia, here is its entry on "rock music":

"The sound of rock often revolves around the guitar back beat laid down by a rhythm section of electric bass guitar, drums, and keyboard instruments such as organ, piano, or, since the 1970s, synthesizers.

...

In the late 1960s and early 1970s, rock music developed different subgenres. When it was blended with folk music it created folk rock, with blues to create blues-rock and with jazz, to create jazz-rock fusion. In the 1970s, rock incorporated influences from soul, funk, and Latin music. Also in the 1970s, rock developed a number of subgenres, such as soft rock, glam rock, heavy metal, hard rock, progressive rock, and punk rock. Rock subgenres that emerged in the 1980s included new wave, hardcore punk and alternative rock. In the 1990s, rock subgenres included grunge, Britpop, indie rock, and nu metal."

Are we arguing about Sade being rock band or making rock music? I am confused here?

I am familiar with the Soldier of love single and when I hear it I don't think rock? That's just me though.. When I think Sade I think older stuff like " your love is king" " smooth operator" " is it a crime" " smooth operator " those are definite RB style tunes, not rock to me, just my opinion though.

If that wasn't directed at me I apologize..it's just your post followed mine and you came out quoting Wiki and I just wasn't sure why..

I am also familiar with the rock and roll hall of fame and it's general purpose for the record. Which is to recognize influential people in the music business whether it be rock act, blues, R&B or shit even producers and engineers.. it would silly to try and have a hall of fame for all genres..wouldn't it?

BF25394

J. wrote:

Are we arguing about Sade being rock band or making rock music? I am confused here?

I am familiar with the Soldier of love single and when I hear it I don't think rock? That's just me though.. When I think Sade I think older stuff like " your love is king" " smooth operator" " is it a crime" " smooth operator " those are definite RB style tunes, not rock to me, just my opinion though.

If that wasn't directed at me I apologize..it's just your post followed mine and you came out quoting Wiki and I just wasn't sure why..

I am also familiar with the rock and roll hall of fame and it's general purpose for the record. Which is to recognize influential people in the music business whether it be rock act, blues, R&B or shit even producers and engineers.. it would silly to try and have a hall of fame for all genres..wouldn't it?

It's rock. It's adult rock, but it's still rock.

Your point about the Hall of Fame is my point exactly. "Rock and roll" is an extremely broad category. It basically means "modern popular music" and it encompasses a lot of subgenres.

BF25394

wnh1977 wrote:

Backspacer has to be closing in on 500,000 sold here in the US. I think the US album sales can be determined a success at this point.

Pearl Jam apparently liked the deal they struck with Target. Some people on here claim that deal has had a negative effect on total sales, but Pearl Jam apparently liked other aspects of the agreement. By today's standards, meaning today's fledgling music industry, I think 500,000 is a success no matter how you decide to distribute the album. Not too many million-sellers these days.

I would've liked to see a Letterman appearance or a Saturday Night Live appearance... a performance of "Just Breathe" on SNL as the song was enjoying radio success might've pushed a few more units. Maybe they'll still do these shows and release another single, who knows? I'm guessing Pearl Jam is completely comfortable with the amount of promotiong they're doing and trying to keep up with the times as far as a way they feel comfortable in distributing future albums.

The album is extremely close to 500,000-- it literally could sell its 500,000th copy any day now.

Pearl Jam likes the Target deal because they make money off of it regardless of how the album sells. Target bought a million copies from the band for $5.00 each. The band made $5 million regardless of whether a single consumer ever bought the record. Under a traditional record deal, the band would get roughly $2.00 per unit moved, meaning that they would have to actually sell 2.5 million copies to consumers to make the same money.

BF25394

DS114969 wrote:

fox_mulderX wrote:

am i the only one who thinks backspacer isn't selling well?
it's a better album than their self titled with two solid singles.... self titled produced world wide suicide... the rest were pretty bad for the radio.
any ideas why it isn't selling as well as the others? is it because they re-released ten back in the spring? could that have dulled the sales a bit?

I think because Target is the only major retailer it's available at (and who buys cds at Target?) and the lack of promotion. Also, I think a lot of PJ's target audience tends to download songs rather than purchase CDs.

As of June 2007, Target was the #5 music retailer in the U.S., behind Wal-Mart, Best Buy, iTunes and Amazon.com (0.1% behind Amazon).

Also, downloads count in the sales total. And something like 75 percent of sales have been of CDs, not downloads. Pearl Jam fans tend to be collectors. They want the physical product and the artwork.

LennonMcCartneyFanatic

BF25394 wrote:

wnh1977 wrote:

Backspacer has to be closing in on 500,000 sold here in the US. I think the US album sales can be determined a success at this point.

Pearl Jam apparently liked the deal they struck with Target. Some people on here claim that deal has had a negative effect on total sales, but Pearl Jam apparently liked other aspects of the agreement. By today's standards, meaning today's fledgling music industry, I think 500,000 is a success no matter how you decide to distribute the album. Not too many million-sellers these days.

I would've liked to see a Letterman appearance or a Saturday Night Live appearance... a performance of "Just Breathe" on SNL as the song was enjoying radio success might've pushed a few more units. Maybe they'll still do these shows and release another single, who knows? I'm guessing Pearl Jam is completely comfortable with the amount of promotiong they're doing and trying to keep up with the times as far as a way they feel comfortable in distributing future albums.

The album is extremely close to 500,000-- it literally could sell its 500,000th copy any day now.

Pearl Jam likes the Target deal because they make money off of it regardless of how the album sells. Target bought a million copies from the band for $5.00 each. The band made $5 million regardless of whether a single consumer ever bought the record. Under a traditional record deal, the band would get roughly $2.00 per unit moved, meaning that they would have to actually sell 2.5 million copies to consumers to make the same money.

Must be nice having that kind of money :-)

igotid88

i would've like to see how it would have done. If it was available everywhere.

BF25394

igotid88 wrote:

i would've like to see how it would have done. If it was available everywhere.

Me, too. One thing I'm pretty sure of: it would have done better.

Better Dan

BF25394 wrote:

DS114969 wrote:

fox_mulderX wrote:

am i the only one who thinks backspacer isn't selling well?
it's a better album than their self titled with two solid singles.... self titled produced world wide suicide... the rest were pretty bad for the radio.
any ideas why it isn't selling as well as the others? is it because they re-released ten back in the spring? could that have dulled the sales a bit?

I think because Target is the only major retailer it's available at (and who buys cds at Target?) and the lack of promotion. Also, I think a lot of PJ's target audience tends to download songs rather than purchase CDs.

As of June 2007, Target was the #5 music retailer in the U.S., behind Wal-Mart, Best Buy, iTunes and Amazon.com (0.1% behind Amazon).

Also, downloads count in the sales total. And something like 75 percent of sales have been of CDs, not downloads. Pearl Jam fans tend to be collectors. They want the physical product and the artwork.

Illegal downloads don't count...that's what I was referring to above. Also, if people only buy selected tracks from iTunes and not the entire album, I don't think that's counted either. June 2007, was a long time ago. I wouldn't be surprised if Amazon now takes a bigger piece of the pie. Do you have the actual numbers to go along with the rankings? Thanks.

joebot

Its not a big seller. Who cares. We love it and them.

T-Bone 82

When you think about in terms of sales vs. industry trends and comparable bands, 500k is a very strong number. Just think of it this way, industry-wide album sales have dropped by 50% since 1999. Binaural came out in 2000 and sold about 800k. If this album came out in 2000, it would have sold around 1 million with only one big-box retailer. If it had been distributed widely, you're talking possibly around 1.5 million to 2.0 million. It's like adjusting for inflation when comparing money in one time period to another. So much has changed in the music industry in the last 10 years and 500k today is not the same level of success as it was 10 years ago. It's much better.

It's definitely true that distributing the album in more big box stores would have helped overall sales, but it would have made no sense for the band and may have been impossible for them to manage without a major label backing them. With this deal, they got paid. If Target wants to get rid of the excess inventory, they will. They'll slash the price and put it in their weekly ad more prominently or something.

There was a hitsdailydouble article recently that mentioned how successful the project has been w/ sales approaching 500k. I think industry people view it that way. It's only going to allow PJ and other bands to eschew the traditional 'major label' approach and operate as their own, individual entities which is better for them and the fans.

BF25394

DS114969 wrote:

Illegal downloads don't count...that's what I was referring to above. Also, if people only buy selected tracks from iTunes and not the entire album, I don't think that's counted either. June 2007, was a long time ago. I wouldn't be surprised if Amazon now takes a bigger piece of the pie. Do you have the actual numbers to go along with the rankings? Thanks.

Gotcha, but the vast majority of downloads are legal downloads. Plus, if anything, I would speculate that Pearl Jam fans are less likely to download illegally because: 1) we skew older than the average music consumer; 2) we are so proud of the band's integrity and how well it treats its fans that we tend not to want to steal from it; and 3) we are completists/collectors who want the physical package, artwork, etc. For these reasons, I would surmise that Pearl Jam's record sales are less undercounted than those of most other artists.

You are right that downloads of individual tracks count toward the sales figures of the individual tracks, not the album. But that affects every artist, and is the primary reason why albums sales are in decline industrywide. It's not unique to Pearl Jam.

On market share, more recent numbers, from January 2008, show:

1) Apple, 19%
2) Wal-Mart, 15%
3) Best Buy, 13%
4) Amazon, 6%
4) Target, 6%

I can't find more recent numbers than that.

BF25394

T-Bone 82 wrote:

When you think about in terms of sales vs. industry trends and comparable bands, 500k is a very strong number. Just think of it this way, industry-wide album sales have dropped by 50% since 1999. Binaural came out in 2000 and sold about 800k. If this album came out in 2000, it would have sold around 1 million with only one big-box retailer. If it had been distributed widely, you're talking possibly around 1.5 million to 2.0 million. It's like adjusting for inflation when comparing money in one time period to another. So much has changed in the music industry in the last 10 years and 500k today is not the same level of success as it was 10 years ago. It's much better.

It's definitely true that distributing the album in more big box stores would have helped overall sales, but it would have made no sense for the band and may have been impossible for them to manage without a major label backing them. With this deal, they got paid. If Target wants to get rid of the excess inventory, they will. They'll slash the price and put it in their weekly ad more prominently or something.

There was a hitsdailydouble article recently that mentioned how successful the project has been w/ sales approaching 500k. I think industry people view it that way. It's only going to allow PJ and other bands to eschew the traditional 'major label' approach and operate as their own, individual entities which is better for them and the fans.

And bear in mind that "Binaural" has had years to accumulate 800,000 in sales. "Backspacer" has been out for less than 6 months.

Better Dan

BF25394 wrote:

DS114969 wrote:

Illegal downloads don't count...that's what I was referring to above. Also, if people only buy selected tracks from iTunes and not the entire album, I don't think that's counted either. June 2007, was a long time ago. I wouldn't be surprised if Amazon now takes a bigger piece of the pie. Do you have the actual numbers to go along with the rankings? Thanks.

Gotcha, but the vast majority of downloads are legal downloads. Plus, if anything, I would speculate that Pearl Jam fans are less likely to download illegally because: 1) we skew older than the average music consumer; 2) we are so proud of the band's integrity and how well it treats its fans that we tend not to want to steal from it; and 3) we are completists/collectors who want the physical package, artwork, etc. For these reasons, I would surmise that Pearl Jam's record sales are less undercounted than those of most other artists.

You are right that downloads of individual tracks count toward the sales figures of the individual tracks, not the album. But that affects every artist, and is the primary reason why albums sales are in decline industrywide. It's not unique to Pearl Jam.

On market share, more recent numbers, from January 2008, show:

1) Apple, 19%
2) Wal-Mart, 15%
3) Best Buy, 13%
4) Amazon, 6%
4) Target, 6%

I can't find more recent numbers than that.

Thanks for the info!

BF25394

Interestingly, "Backspacer" actually saw its sales increase by 12 percent from 5,382 to 6,050 last week (2/27/10 chart) even though it moved down the chart from #118 to #128. Through last week, "Backspacer" had sold 490,699 units.

Following up on a point made above, "Black Gives Way To Blue" sold 832 more copies than "Backspacer" last week (a 2 percent decline from the previous week), and that was enough to rank it 15 spots higher. The AIC album had sold 368,400 units as of last week.