What's confusing? Stop being a hater and she'll be nice to you...i've learned that lesson the hard way. :idea:
Now... I didn't see any 'hater' in Dunk's post. He didn't say the album was rubbish or give a poor review of it (which I think is the main theme of this thread). He just said he did not think it was an 'absolute masterpiece', nothing more. His opinion, just like Black10 gave his/hers, just like you gave yours. Lots of people don't think it's an absolute masterpiece or a classic, whilst still really liking the album.
He told someone who loves the album that they "allowed their fanaticism" to "cloud their judgment" and the album isn't a masterpiece.
I told him that the person was allowed to have their own opinion just as he was to have his own opinion.
we're all fanatics... its where the word 'fans' is derived from, ergo we all have a certain level of fanaticism to which we deal with. My opinion and viewpoint still stand and i believe to be still valid. The poster has just received a new album and as a result of being a PJ fanatic, like we all are, he has declared the album an 'absolute masterpiece'... well time will tell on that one, but i think it isnt. It's a very good album and it's PJ for gods sakes... its always good.. but IN MY OPINION it isnt a masterpiece. You pm'ing me to leave him alone was unwarranted. He had an opinion and i had mine? no nastiness or anything.
Yes you did pm me that last line above, but you also told me to leave him alone... and i have no idea why? I wasnt rude to him or picking on his opinion any more than anyone elses...
If someone campaigns for the negative to change someone's mind about the music, it isn't ok. Pick THE bashing thread and communicate there. You are entitled to your opinion but the people who love the music (and they are in the majority) do not have to be subjected to the constant negativity from those who don't care for it. The people who love it have rights too.
Period...and I hope it helps but if it doesn't, don't do it anyway.
Admin
"the constant negativity from those who don't care for it"... where in any of my posts on this or any thread did i say i didnt care for it or subject anyone to constant negativity? also ... at no time on this or any other thread have i said i don't love the music... far from it... i was using reasoned objectivity to counter the opinion of the poster who said it was 'an absolute masterpiece'... if all we want or allow on this forum is sycophantic hyperbole ... well "then you count me out.. in... " *
*copyright Lennon/McCartney
now that album is a masterpiece.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
He told someone who loves the album that they "allowed their fanaticism" to "cloud their judgment" and the album isn't a masterpiece.
I told him that the person was allowed to have their own opinion just as he was to have his own opinion.
we're all fanatics... its where the word 'fans' is derived from, ergo we all have a certain level of fanaticism to which we deal with. My opinion and viewpoint still stand and i believe to be still valid. The poster has just received a new album and as a result of being a PJ fanatic, like we all are, he has declared the album an 'absolute masterpiece'... well time will tell on that one, but i think it isnt. It's a very good album and it's PJ for gods sakes... its always good.. but IN MY OPINION it isnt a masterpiece. You pm'ing me to leave him alone was unwarranted. He had an opinion and i had mine? no nastiness or anything.
Yes you did pm me that last line above, but you also told me to leave him alone... and i have no idea why? I wasnt rude to him or picking on his opinion any more than anyone elses...
If someone campaigns for the negative to change someone's mind about the music, it isn't ok. Pick THE bashing thread and communicate there. You are entitled to your opinion but the people who love the music (and they are in the majority) do not have to be subjected to the constant negativity from those who don't care for it. The people who love it have rights too.
Period...and I hope it helps but if it doesn't, don't do it anyway.
Admin
"the constant negativity from those who don't care for it"... where in any of my posts on this or any thread did i say i didnt care for it or subject anyone to constant negativity? also ... at no time on this or any other thread have i said i don't love the music... far from it... i was using reasoned objectivity to counter the opinion of the poster who said it was 'an absolute masterpiece'... if all we want or allow on this forum is sycophantic hyperbole ... well "then you count me out.. in... " *
*copyright Lennon/McCartney
now that album is a masterpiece.
your quote above, edited: but IN HIS OPINION it is a masterpiece.
If we are to respect each other's opinions on the album (which, as adults (?!?) we should), should we not have the same 'respect' for other people's opinions - those that are not on this board.
honestly I can't stop laughing. the guy is totally delusional. this "review" is one of the biggest load of crap I have ever read. and I say this regardless of the fact that I am a PJ lover and 10C member. some people just shouldn't be allowed writing.
any worse than what Dunk said? I do understand that one may think that because danleri's post was directed at a non board member and an 'unknown' person, some may think it's OK to denigrate the reviewer and his opinions (whereas if one does this by posting in direct response to a board member, it's more personal) but respect is respect!
Just a thought. No need to debate.
Let's just accept some are of the opinion the album is a masterpiece, some are of the opinion it's damn good, some will say it's OK and some not like it. That's the way it is.
Let's just accept some are of the opinion the album is a masterpiece, some are of the opinion it's damn good, some will say it's OK and some not like it. That's the way it is.
and sure, that....it's ok...we love you anyway.......;)
as another thread title earlier suggested, 'i don't get' why people actually have to argue and get upset/angry over a differing opinion over art. this isn't world peace we're discussing here, but music. yes, i know music is important to all of us, but in the scheme of things, you loving/hating a song that i may have a differing opinion on......simply equals unimportant in the life meter.
let's just BREATHE........!
(btw i actually LOVE the discussions over the 'whys' someone likes, or dislikes a certain song, a film, foods, etc....i's just so damned interesting!....and outside of the crazy love, or hate, expressed about a certain new album...these past few days i've had more than few truly interesting convos over lyrics, interpretations, vocal delivery/phrasings, musical styles, etc)
He told someone who loves the album that they "allowed their fanaticism" to "cloud their judgment" and the album isn't a masterpiece.
I told him that the person was allowed to have their own opinion just as he was to have his own opinion.
we're all fanatics... its where the word 'fans' is derived from, ergo we all have a certain level of fanaticism to which we deal with. My opinion and viewpoint still stand and i believe to be still valid. The poster has just received a new album and as a result of being a PJ fanatic, like we all are, he has declared the album an 'absolute masterpiece'... well time will tell on that one, but i think it isnt. It's a very good album and it's PJ for gods sakes... its always good.. but IN MY OPINION it isnt a masterpiece. You pm'ing me to leave him alone was unwarranted. He had an opinion and i had mine? no nastiness or anything.
Yes you did pm me that last line above, but you also told me to leave him alone... and i have no idea why? I wasnt rude to him or picking on his opinion any more than anyone elses...
Kat wrote:
If someone campaigns for the negative to change someone's mind about the music, it isn't ok. Pick THE bashing thread and communicate there. You are entitled to your opinion but the people who love the music (and they are in the majority) do not have to be subjected to the constant negativity from those who don't care for it. The people who love it have rights too.
Period...and I hope it helps but if it doesn't, don't do it anyway.
Admin
"the constant negativity from those who don't care for it"... where in any of my posts on this or any thread did i say i didnt care for it or subject anyone to constant negativity? also ... at no time on this or any other thread have i said i don't love the music... far from it... i was using reasoned objectivity to counter the opinion of the poster who said it was 'an absolute masterpiece'... if all we want or allow on this forum is sycophantic hyperbole ... well "then you count me out.. in... " *
*copyright Lennon/McCartney
now that album is a masterpiece.
your quote above, edited: but IN HIS OPINION it is a masterpiece.
Leave him alone.
This isn't a debate, Dunk. Have a special day.
Admin
Kat, if we ever get married, can our first dance be to "Got Some"?
p.s. i say we invite dunkman
Toledo '96, Cleveland '98, Columbus '00, Cleveland '03, Toledo '04
Washington D.C. '04, London '05,Hamilton '05,Grand Rapids '06,
Cleveland '06, Detroit '06,Pittsburgh '06,Cincinnati '06,Chicago '07
NYC '08, NYC '08, Chicago '09, Chicago '09, ACL '09, Columbus 2010, Noblesville 2010, Cleveland 2010, Buffalo 2010.
so, us "negative" people need to contain ourselves to one thread, but everyone else can create tons and tons of threads about how much they love the album and how the rest of us need to shut up?
You may have seen me:
Cleveland 5/20/2006
Pittsburgh 6/23/2006
Columbia 6/16/2008
Bristow 5/13/2010
so, us "negative" people need to contain ourselves to one thread, but everyone else can create tons and tons of threads about how much they love the album and how the rest of us need to shut up?
.....Yup....Pretty much.
Toledo '96, Cleveland '98, Columbus '00, Cleveland '03, Toledo '04
Washington D.C. '04, London '05,Hamilton '05,Grand Rapids '06,
Cleveland '06, Detroit '06,Pittsburgh '06,Cincinnati '06,Chicago '07
NYC '08, NYC '08, Chicago '09, Chicago '09, ACL '09, Columbus 2010, Noblesville 2010, Cleveland 2010, Buffalo 2010.
It's getting stronger in me the opinion that it might have been a collective decision of the whole band, right or wrong, to put some Into The Wild leftovers in Backspacer, given the large success the soundtrack has had. Maybe they thought that way Backspacer could sell more and I don't see anything wrong with that. I personally think it wasn't a good idea to include the "solo" songs in their record and not because I don't like those songs, but because I'd rather have them on their own and without the over-production. I just don't see why they had to rearrange Speed of Sound that way, for instance. It just doesn't sound right. Stick to acoustic and publish an Into The Wild Part II, rather. Either way, it is true that Stone has had less to say over the years and left more and more space to Eddie instead. And it shows. There was a time when they all shared 20% of royalties and everybody knows that after a while Stone agreed to give 4% to Eddie and so did the rest of the band, so now Eddie gets 36% and the rest of them only 14%. So that could be an explanation for Stone's "withdrawal" from songwriting in Pearl Jam.
There might be something to that. It actually popped into my head from the other thread about Just Breathe climbing the charts... a lot of its success might be that it appeals to people that got ITW or bought it after years of being at a distance from PJ... a way to hook some of the people that may be interested in PJ thanks to ITW but don't know what to expect from a regular PJ album.
It's getting stronger in me the opinion that it might have been a collective decision of the whole band, right or wrong, to put some Into The Wild leftovers in Backspacer, given the large success the soundtrack has had. Maybe they thought that way Backspacer could sell more and I don't see anything wrong with that. I personally think it wasn't a good idea to include the "solo" songs in their record and not because I don't like those songs, but because I'd rather have them on their own and without the over-production. I just don't see why they had to rearrange Speed of Sound that way, for instance. It just doesn't sound right. Stick to acoustic and publish an Into The Wild Part II, rather. Either way, it is true that Stone has had less to say over the years and left more and more space to Eddie instead. And it shows. There was a time when they all shared 20% of royalties and everybody knows that after a while Stone agreed to give 4% to Eddie and so did the rest of the band, so now Eddie gets 36% and the rest of them only 14%. So that could be an explanation for Stone's "withdrawal" from songwriting in Pearl Jam.
There might be something to that. It actually popped into my head from the other thread about Just Breathe climbing the charts... a lot of its success might be that it appeals to people that got ITW or bought it after years of being at a distance from PJ... a way to hook some of the people that may be interested in PJ thanks to ITW but don't know what to expect from a regular PJ album.
You were singing a different tune yesterday werent you?
Toledo '96, Cleveland '98, Columbus '00, Cleveland '03, Toledo '04
Washington D.C. '04, London '05,Hamilton '05,Grand Rapids '06,
Cleveland '06, Detroit '06,Pittsburgh '06,Cincinnati '06,Chicago '07
NYC '08, NYC '08, Chicago '09, Chicago '09, ACL '09, Columbus 2010, Noblesville 2010, Cleveland 2010, Buffalo 2010.
Don't you use it? Perfectly normal and common word, appropriately used in the sentence.
Is that all you retained from my post?
I dont believe in opinions...there are only facts and fictions. Let me give you an example:
1) Backspacer is not an absolute masterpiece
FICTION
2) Backspacer is an absolute masterpiece
FACT
Your credibility in determining fact from fiction was destroyed when I read you descrbie Riot Act as a masterpiece elsewhere
Soul....you and I are going to have to meet up before a show and fist fight. I dont see any way around it. You're a flip-flopper if I've ever seen one and someone should swiftboat you.
Toledo '96, Cleveland '98, Columbus '00, Cleveland '03, Toledo '04
Washington D.C. '04, London '05,Hamilton '05,Grand Rapids '06,
Cleveland '06, Detroit '06,Pittsburgh '06,Cincinnati '06,Chicago '07
NYC '08, NYC '08, Chicago '09, Chicago '09, ACL '09, Columbus 2010, Noblesville 2010, Cleveland 2010, Buffalo 2010.
It's getting stronger in me the opinion that it might have been a collective decision of the whole band, right or wrong, to put some Into The Wild leftovers in Backspacer, given the large success the soundtrack has had. Maybe they thought that way Backspacer could sell more and I don't see anything wrong with that. I personally think it wasn't a good idea to include the "solo" songs in their record and not because I don't like those songs, but because I'd rather have them on their own and without the over-production. I just don't see why they had to rearrange Speed of Sound that way, for instance. It just doesn't sound right. Stick to acoustic and publish an Into The Wild Part II, rather. Either way, it is true that Stone has had less to say over the years and left more and more space to Eddie instead. And it shows. There was a time when they all shared 20% of royalties and everybody knows that after a while Stone agreed to give 4% to Eddie and so did the rest of the band, so now Eddie gets 36% and the rest of them only 14%. So that could be an explanation for Stone's "withdrawal" from songwriting in Pearl Jam.
There might be something to that. It actually popped into my head from the other thread about Just Breathe climbing the charts... a lot of its success might be that it appeals to people that got ITW or bought it after years of being at a distance from PJ... a way to hook some of the people that may be interested in PJ thanks to ITW but don't know what to expect from a regular PJ album.
You were singing a different tune yesterday werent you?
The tune yesterday was that the song sounds like an ITW b-side, which is exactly what was said here. I still think it's a boring song. Maybe that's why it's charting so well on itunes. But his point that maybe it was placed on the album deliberately for that reason is one I hadn't thought of. I still don't like it, but it's less alarming than the thought that every PJ album from here on will be 50% Ed solo songs with a few token tracks where the "other guys" get a song.
I'm kinda sad that all the arguing died down here. But i guess it's for the best.
You were singing a different tune yesterday when you wanted us all to shut up and kept talking about leaving because you couldn't handle the negativity... now you miss it? Fun isn't it?
It's getting stronger in me the opinion that it might have been a collective decision of the whole band, right or wrong, to put some Into The Wild leftovers in Backspacer, given the large success the soundtrack has had. Maybe they thought that way Backspacer could sell more and I don't see anything wrong with that. I personally think it wasn't a good idea to include the "solo" songs in their record and not because I don't like those songs, but because I'd rather have them on their own and without the over-production. I just don't see why they had to rearrange Speed of Sound that way, for instance. It just doesn't sound right. Stick to acoustic and publish an Into The Wild Part II, rather. Either way, it is true that Stone has had less to say over the years and left more and more space to Eddie instead. And it shows. There was a time when they all shared 20% of royalties and everybody knows that after a while Stone agreed to give 4% to Eddie and so did the rest of the band, so now Eddie gets 36% and the rest of them only 14%. So that could be an explanation for Stone's "withdrawal" from songwriting in Pearl Jam.
There might be something to that. It actually popped into my head from the other thread about Just Breathe climbing the charts... a lot of its success might be that it appeals to people that got ITW or bought it after years of being at a distance from PJ... a way to hook some of the people that may be interested in PJ thanks to ITW but don't know what to expect from a regular PJ album.
You were singing a different tune yesterday werent you?
is that not allowed?
isn't that the point of entering in discussion? being open and receptive to others' pov, and perhaps altering your own thoughts in the process? i think that is the "problem" in this forum oftentimes...that one must take a stand! always! stand, unwavering on their thoughts and opinions...instead of actually disseminating and considering other povs, and learning from them.
btw - i actually enjoyed/appreciated a great # of ss points....especially about stone. it was not something i had given much thought to, and then when someone else made mention of it being a conscious decision of the band that they all play second fiddle to ed...firstly, i thought...how could they know that? secodnly, even if true for myriad reasons, i am sure as well....anyone as talented as stone, well...tis a shame to play 'second fiddle' to anyone. but i digress....
and seeing your flip-flopper comment, i think all the more....wtf?
seriously. hope it;s all in humor. i think dissecting others' points and reassessing is cool, not flip-flopping, and i don't even see any of it in any case. i see at most, an opinion being refined, but many of the ideas presented still stand. and no this is no 'defense'......it simply interests me b/c again, this is what i oftentimes find frustrating with this place - it's not all or nothing. personal growth is a good thing. that growth occurs from taking in thoughts of others, and sometimes....yea...now altering your view.
just my 2 cents there.
but hey, this thread started with beating down on someone b/c the OP didn't like their opinion and/or how they shared it.....yet others here scloded for doing the same thing....so i just don't know......
It's getting stronger in me the opinion that it might have been a collective decision of the whole band, right or wrong, to put some Into The Wild leftovers in Backspacer, given the large success the soundtrack has had. Maybe they thought that way Backspacer could sell more and I don't see anything wrong with that. I personally think it wasn't a good idea to include the "solo" songs in their record and not because I don't like those songs, but because I'd rather have them on their own and without the over-production. I just don't see why they had to rearrange Speed of Sound that way, for instance. It just doesn't sound right. Stick to acoustic and publish an Into The Wild Part II, rather. Either way, it is true that Stone has had less to say over the years and left more and more space to Eddie instead. And it shows. There was a time when they all shared 20% of royalties and everybody knows that after a while Stone agreed to give 4% to Eddie and so did the rest of the band, so now Eddie gets 36% and the rest of them only 14%. So that could be an explanation for Stone's "withdrawal" from songwriting in Pearl Jam.
There might be something to that. It actually popped into my head from the other thread about Just Breathe climbing the charts... a lot of its success might be that it appeals to people that got ITW or bought it after years of being at a distance from PJ... a way to hook some of the people that may be interested in PJ thanks to ITW but don't know what to expect from a regular PJ album.
You were singing a different tune yesterday werent you?
The tune yesterday was that the song sounds like an ITW b-side, which is exactly what was said here. I still think it's a boring song. Maybe that's why it's charting so well on itunes. But his point that maybe it was placed on the album deliberately for that reason is one I hadn't thought of. I still don't like it, but it's less alarming than the thought that every PJ album from here on will be 50% Ed solo songs with a few token tracks where the "other guys" get a song.[/quote]
Dude go back and read your liner notes....
Starting with Vitalogy, Ed has had more songs on the records than any 1 other member. Ed, traditionally, writes the stuff with the simplest structure and he writes complete 'songs'. You seriously need to read up on how PJ picks songs. It's very democratic. Nobody gets a song on a disc (or gets one recorded for that matter) unless at least one other member of the band nominates it. McCready had the most songs on S/T and Stone had 4 songs on Riot Act, he had 3 or 4 on Binaural.....and, to correct your comments from yesterday, he has 2 by himself on Backspacer and he helped with 2 others. And believe me, Ed does not write the other guy's parts even when he writes the tune. You need to 'get right'
Toledo '96, Cleveland '98, Columbus '00, Cleveland '03, Toledo '04
Washington D.C. '04, London '05,Hamilton '05,Grand Rapids '06,
Cleveland '06, Detroit '06,Pittsburgh '06,Cincinnati '06,Chicago '07
NYC '08, NYC '08, Chicago '09, Chicago '09, ACL '09, Columbus 2010, Noblesville 2010, Cleveland 2010, Buffalo 2010.
Your credibility in determining fact from fiction was destroyed when I read you descrbie Riot Act as a masterpiece elsewhere
Soul....you and I are going to have to meet up before a show and fist fight. I dont see any way around it. You're a flip-flopper if I've ever seen one and someone should swiftboat you.
To those without the intellectual capacity to comprehend nuance and subtlety, I'm sure that is how I seem. I've hated Riot Act for years though... how does that make me a flip-flopper? Half the people on here probably only know me by the fact that I hate that album so much, hehe. It's not like I was saying it was an absolute masterpiece yesterday and now claim it sucks. Do you know what flip-flop means?
In any event, the day I get into a fistfight over opinions about a rock band is the day I admit to the world that I am a pathetic loser with no life outside obsessing over posters and bootlegs. And on that day, I will kill myself.
Besides, any sort of fight with me is a bad idea. I don't fight fair
Your credibility in determining fact from fiction was destroyed when I read you descrbie Riot Act as a masterpiece elsewhere
Soul....you and I are going to have to meet up before a show and fist fight. I dont see any way around it. You're a flip-flopper if I've ever seen one and someone should swiftboat you.
To those without the intellectual capacity to comprehend nuance and subtlety, I'm sure that is how I seem. I've hated Riot Act for years though... how does that make me a flip-flopper? Half the people on here probably only know me by the fact that I hate that album so much, hehe. It's not like I was saying it was an absolute masterpiece yesterday and now claim it sucks. Do you know what flip-flop means?
In any event, the day I get into a fistfight over opinions about a rock band is the day I admit to the world that I am a pathetic loser with no life outside obsessing over posters and bootlegs. And on that day, I will kill myself.
Besides, any sort of fight with me is a bad idea. I don't fight fair
Well we should at least get drunk at throw stuff at each other. Maybe you'll get invited to the wedding too.
Toledo '96, Cleveland '98, Columbus '00, Cleveland '03, Toledo '04
Washington D.C. '04, London '05,Hamilton '05,Grand Rapids '06,
Cleveland '06, Detroit '06,Pittsburgh '06,Cincinnati '06,Chicago '07
NYC '08, NYC '08, Chicago '09, Chicago '09, ACL '09, Columbus 2010, Noblesville 2010, Cleveland 2010, Buffalo 2010.
Starting with Vitalogy, Ed has had more songs on the records than any 1 other member. Ed, traditionally, writes the stuff with the simplest structure and he writes complete 'songs'. You seriously need to read up on how PJ picks songs. It's very democratic. Nobody gets a song on a disc (or gets one recorded for that matter) unless at least one other member of the band nominates it. McCready had the most songs on S/T and Stone had 4 songs on Riot Act, he had 3 or 4 on Binaural.....and, to correct your comments from yesterday, he has 2 by himself on Backspacer and he helped with 2 others. And believe me, Ed does not write the other guy's parts even when he writes the tune. You need to 'get right'
Yes, and those middle records were the best... Vitalogy-Binaural. Everyone had their hand in the album, and a lot of the songs were written together. Yield was an almost even split among the songwriters, with a lot of collaboration. Ditto for No Code. Even if Stone and Mike had a few more songs on the last 2 albums, those albums were 15 and 13 songs and Ed was still more than keeping pace with them. This album is 50% Ed and Ed alone... 5 out of 11 songs written solely by Ed with no input from anyone. You say he doesn't write the other guys' parts... what did Mike contribute to The End and Just Breathe then? All I hear is guitar and violin.
Sounds to me like you're not even trying to deny that songwriting credit distribution has changed, you're just telling me it's not a bad thing and the rest of the band said it's ok. That's fine and might be true. That still doesn't mean I have to like it. Stone might have voted in all 5 Ed songs, I'd still rather hear the songs he wrote than the songs Ed wrote that Stone likes.
In any event, the day I get into a fistfight over opinions about a rock band is the day I admit to the world that I am a pathetic loser with no life outside obsessing over posters and bootlegs. And on that day, I will kill myself.
Besides, any sort of fight with me is a bad idea. I don't fight fair
Well we should at least get drunk at throw stuff at each other. Maybe you'll get invited to the wedding too.
I am ALWAYS up for getting drunk and throwing stuff. Count me in at the next Cleveland show!
Starting with Vitalogy, Ed has had more songs on the records than any 1 other member. Ed, traditionally, writes the stuff with the simplest structure and he writes complete 'songs'. You seriously need to read up on how PJ picks songs. It's very democratic. Nobody gets a song on a disc (or gets one recorded for that matter) unless at least one other member of the band nominates it. McCready had the most songs on S/T and Stone had 4 songs on Riot Act, he had 3 or 4 on Binaural.....and, to correct your comments from yesterday, he has 2 by himself on Backspacer and he helped with 2 others. And believe me, Ed does not write the other guy's parts even when he writes the tune. You need to 'get right'
Yes, and those middle records were the best... Vitalogy-Binaural. Everyone had their hand in the album, and a lot of the songs were written together. Yield was an almost even split among the songwriters, with a lot of collaboration. Ditto for No Code. Even if Stone and Mike had a few more songs on the last 2 albums, those albums were 15 and 13 songs and Ed was still more than keeping pace with them. This album is 50% Ed and Ed alone... 5 out of 11 songs written solely by Ed with no input from anyone. You say he doesn't write the other guys' parts... what did Mike contribute to The End and Just Breathe then? All I hear is guitar and violin.
Sounds to me like you're not even trying to deny that songwriting credit distribution has changed, you're just telling me it's not a bad thing and the rest of the band said it's ok. That's fine and might be true. That still doesn't mean I have to like it. Stone might have voted in all 5 Ed songs, I'd still rather hear the songs he wrote than the songs Ed wrote that Stone likes.
5 out of 11 is only 45.45%
Toledo '96, Cleveland '98, Columbus '00, Cleveland '03, Toledo '04
Washington D.C. '04, London '05,Hamilton '05,Grand Rapids '06,
Cleveland '06, Detroit '06,Pittsburgh '06,Cincinnati '06,Chicago '07
NYC '08, NYC '08, Chicago '09, Chicago '09, ACL '09, Columbus 2010, Noblesville 2010, Cleveland 2010, Buffalo 2010.
I don't know what this argument is all about. All I know is this: If you don't like Just Breathe, it is proof that you have no soul. Dick Cheney probably haaaaaaaates it.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
I don't know what this argument is all about. All I know is this: If you don't like Just Breathe, it is proof that you have no soul. Dick Cheney probably haaaaaaaates it.
And, as always, slightofjeff hits the nail on the head.
Toledo '96, Cleveland '98, Columbus '00, Cleveland '03, Toledo '04
Washington D.C. '04, London '05,Hamilton '05,Grand Rapids '06,
Cleveland '06, Detroit '06,Pittsburgh '06,Cincinnati '06,Chicago '07
NYC '08, NYC '08, Chicago '09, Chicago '09, ACL '09, Columbus 2010, Noblesville 2010, Cleveland 2010, Buffalo 2010.
I don't know what this argument is all about. All I know is this: If you don't like Just Breathe, it is proof that you have no soul. Dick Cheney probably haaaaaaaates it.
why are comments like this ok, but not comments disagreeing about an album being a masterpiece? i actually don't have a problem with either, but i just don't understand it. (for the record, i LOVe just breathe....but amazingly, my husband doesn't - not a lyrics guy...and yes, he does have a soul )
I don't know what this argument is all about. All I know is this: If you don't like Just Breathe, it is proof that you have no soul. Dick Cheney probably haaaaaaaates it.
why are comments like this ok, but not comments disagreeing about an album being a masterpiece? i actually don't have a problem with either, but i just don't understand it. (for the record, i LOVe just breathe....but amazingly, my husband doesn't - not a lyrics guy...and yes, he does have a soul )
I'd double check. Can he see his reflection in the mirror? When he goes to the supermarket, do the automatic doors open? Or can they not even sense his presence? You better conduct some experiments.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
I don't know what this argument is all about. All I know is this: If you don't like Just Breathe, it is proof that you have no soul. Dick Cheney probably haaaaaaaates it.
why are comments like this ok, but not comments disagreeing about an album being a masterpiece? i actually don't have a problem with either, but i just don't understand it. (for the record, i LOVe just breathe....but amazingly, my husband doesn't - not a lyrics guy...and yes, he does have a soul )
I'd double check. Can he see his reflection in the mirror? When he goes to the supermarket, do the automatic doors open? Or can they not even sense his presence? You better conduct some experiments.
i love conducting experiments.....but i can think of far more enticing ones than that.
but sure, deflect away from my actual point...tis ok.
btw - i actually was discussing backspacer with mr. dream over dinner last night as he finally gave it a first listen, overall he was 'eh'....but he said outright, i don't like that 'slow song'....and puts the album on, and plays just breathe. i was actually unspurprised, b/c again...he is not a lyrics guy, especially for a first listen. he said it sounded like it should be on into the wild, not a pearl jam album. fair enough. of course, it was the one and only song i fell in love with upon first listen....b/c i AM a lyrics chick. and yet, we work. tho i will add, he said his opinions change wildly upon further listenings to an album, and he didn't even listen to the whole album all the wy thru yet, so whateva....tho i doubt it'll ever be a fave of his. i did, however, email him the lyrics to that tune AND unthought known, just b/c....he should at least read their mastery.
but sure, deflect away from my actual point...tis ok.
I didn't address that point because I came in on the back end of whatever discussion it sprung from, and didn't really want to get involved. Appropos of nothing, I just wanted to express my devotion to Just Breathe, and my belief that anyone who doesn't like must be inhabited by the spirit of Satan ... or maybe they're just deaf; can't hold it against deaf people. Not their fault.
btw - i actually was discussing backspacer with mr. dream over dinner last night as he finally gave it a first listen, overall he was 'eh'....but he said outright, i don't like that 'slow song'....and puts the album on, and plays just breathe. i was actually unspurprised, b/c again...he is not a lyrics guy, especially for a first listen. he said it sounded like it should be on into the wild, not a pearl jam album. fair enough. of course, it was the one and only song i fell in love with upon first listen....b/c i AM a lyrics chick. and yet, we work. tho i will add, he said his opinions change wildly upon further listenings to an album, and he didn't even listen to the whole album all the wy thru yet, so whateva....tho i doubt it'll ever be a fave of his. i did, however, email him the lyrics to that tune AND unthought known, just b/c....he should at least read their mastery.
The best thing about Ed's lyrics on this album, and really every album ... they would work as pure poetry, even without music behind them.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
Comments
we're all fanatics... its where the word 'fans' is derived from, ergo we all have a certain level of fanaticism to which we deal with. My opinion and viewpoint still stand and i believe to be still valid. The poster has just received a new album and as a result of being a PJ fanatic, like we all are, he has declared the album an 'absolute masterpiece'... well time will tell on that one, but i think it isnt. It's a very good album and it's PJ for gods sakes... its always good.. but IN MY OPINION it isnt a masterpiece. You pm'ing me to leave him alone was unwarranted. He had an opinion and i had mine? no nastiness or anything.
Yes you did pm me that last line above, but you also told me to leave him alone... and i have no idea why? I wasnt rude to him or picking on his opinion any more than anyone elses...
"the constant negativity from those who don't care for it"... where in any of my posts on this or any thread did i say i didnt care for it or subject anyone to constant negativity? also ... at no time on this or any other thread have i said i don't love the music... far from it... i was using reasoned objectivity to counter the opinion of the poster who said it was 'an absolute masterpiece'... if all we want or allow on this forum is sycophantic hyperbole ... well "then you count me out.. in... " *
*copyright Lennon/McCartney
now that album is a masterpiece.
your quote above, edited: but IN HIS OPINION it is a masterpiece.
Leave him alone.
This isn't a debate, Dunk. Have a special day.
Admin
If we are to respect each other's opinions on the album (which, as adults (?!?) we should), should we not have the same 'respect' for other people's opinions - those that are not on this board.
For example, is this:
any worse than what Dunk said? I do understand that one may think that because danleri's post was directed at a non board member and an 'unknown' person, some may think it's OK to denigrate the reviewer and his opinions (whereas if one does this by posting in direct response to a board member, it's more personal) but respect is respect!
Just a thought. No need to debate.
Let's just accept some are of the opinion the album is a masterpiece, some are of the opinion it's damn good, some will say it's OK and some not like it. That's the way it is.
and sure, that....it's ok...we love you anyway.......;)
as another thread title earlier suggested, 'i don't get' why people actually have to argue and get upset/angry over a differing opinion over art. this isn't world peace we're discussing here, but music. yes, i know music is important to all of us, but in the scheme of things, you loving/hating a song that i may have a differing opinion on......simply equals unimportant in the life meter.
let's just BREATHE........!
(btw i actually LOVE the discussions over the 'whys' someone likes, or dislikes a certain song, a film, foods, etc....i's just so damned interesting!....and outside of the crazy love, or hate, expressed about a certain new album...these past few days i've had more than few truly interesting convos over lyrics, interpretations, vocal delivery/phrasings, musical styles, etc)
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Washington D.C. '04, London '05,Hamilton '05,Grand Rapids '06,
Cleveland '06, Detroit '06,Pittsburgh '06,Cincinnati '06,Chicago '07
NYC '08, NYC '08, Chicago '09, Chicago '09, ACL '09, Columbus 2010, Noblesville 2010, Cleveland 2010, Buffalo 2010.
Washington D.C. '04, London '05,Hamilton '05,Grand Rapids '06,
Cleveland '06, Detroit '06,Pittsburgh '06,Cincinnati '06,Chicago '07
NYC '08, NYC '08, Chicago '09, Chicago '09, ACL '09, Columbus 2010, Noblesville 2010, Cleveland 2010, Buffalo 2010.
Washington D.C. '04, London '05,Hamilton '05,Grand Rapids '06,
Cleveland '06, Detroit '06,Pittsburgh '06,Cincinnati '06,Chicago '07
NYC '08, NYC '08, Chicago '09, Chicago '09, ACL '09, Columbus 2010, Noblesville 2010, Cleveland 2010, Buffalo 2010.
Cleveland 5/20/2006
Pittsburgh 6/23/2006
Columbia 6/16/2008
Bristow 5/13/2010
.....Yup....Pretty much.
Washington D.C. '04, London '05,Hamilton '05,Grand Rapids '06,
Cleveland '06, Detroit '06,Pittsburgh '06,Cincinnati '06,Chicago '07
NYC '08, NYC '08, Chicago '09, Chicago '09, ACL '09, Columbus 2010, Noblesville 2010, Cleveland 2010, Buffalo 2010.
Washington D.C. '04, London '05,Hamilton '05,Grand Rapids '06,
Cleveland '06, Detroit '06,Pittsburgh '06,Cincinnati '06,Chicago '07
NYC '08, NYC '08, Chicago '09, Chicago '09, ACL '09, Columbus 2010, Noblesville 2010, Cleveland 2010, Buffalo 2010.
There might be something to that. It actually popped into my head from the other thread about Just Breathe climbing the charts... a lot of its success might be that it appeals to people that got ITW or bought it after years of being at a distance from PJ... a way to hook some of the people that may be interested in PJ thanks to ITW but don't know what to expect from a regular PJ album.
You were singing a different tune yesterday werent you?
Washington D.C. '04, London '05,Hamilton '05,Grand Rapids '06,
Cleveland '06, Detroit '06,Pittsburgh '06,Cincinnati '06,Chicago '07
NYC '08, NYC '08, Chicago '09, Chicago '09, ACL '09, Columbus 2010, Noblesville 2010, Cleveland 2010, Buffalo 2010.
Your credibility in determining fact from fiction was destroyed when I read you descrbie Riot Act as a masterpiece elsewhere
Soul....you and I are going to have to meet up before a show and fist fight. I dont see any way around it. You're a flip-flopper if I've ever seen one and someone should swiftboat you.
Washington D.C. '04, London '05,Hamilton '05,Grand Rapids '06,
Cleveland '06, Detroit '06,Pittsburgh '06,Cincinnati '06,Chicago '07
NYC '08, NYC '08, Chicago '09, Chicago '09, ACL '09, Columbus 2010, Noblesville 2010, Cleveland 2010, Buffalo 2010.
The tune yesterday was that the song sounds like an ITW b-side, which is exactly what was said here. I still think it's a boring song. Maybe that's why it's charting so well on itunes. But his point that maybe it was placed on the album deliberately for that reason is one I hadn't thought of. I still don't like it, but it's less alarming than the thought that every PJ album from here on will be 50% Ed solo songs with a few token tracks where the "other guys" get a song.
You were singing a different tune yesterday when you wanted us all to shut up and kept talking about leaving because you couldn't handle the negativity... now you miss it? Fun isn't it?
is that not allowed?
isn't that the point of entering in discussion? being open and receptive to others' pov, and perhaps altering your own thoughts in the process? i think that is the "problem" in this forum oftentimes...that one must take a stand! always! stand, unwavering on their thoughts and opinions...instead of actually disseminating and considering other povs, and learning from them.
btw - i actually enjoyed/appreciated a great # of ss points....especially about stone. it was not something i had given much thought to, and then when someone else made mention of it being a conscious decision of the band that they all play second fiddle to ed...firstly, i thought...how could they know that? secodnly, even if true for myriad reasons, i am sure as well....anyone as talented as stone, well...tis a shame to play 'second fiddle' to anyone. but i digress....
and seeing your flip-flopper comment, i think all the more....wtf?
seriously. hope it;s all in humor. i think dissecting others' points and reassessing is cool, not flip-flopping, and i don't even see any of it in any case. i see at most, an opinion being refined, but many of the ideas presented still stand. and no this is no 'defense'......it simply interests me b/c again, this is what i oftentimes find frustrating with this place - it's not all or nothing. personal growth is a good thing. that growth occurs from taking in thoughts of others, and sometimes....yea...now altering your view.
just my 2 cents there.
but hey, this thread started with beating down on someone b/c the OP didn't like their opinion and/or how they shared it.....yet others here scloded for doing the same thing....so i just don't know......
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
The tune yesterday was that the song sounds like an ITW b-side, which is exactly what was said here. I still think it's a boring song. Maybe that's why it's charting so well on itunes. But his point that maybe it was placed on the album deliberately for that reason is one I hadn't thought of. I still don't like it, but it's less alarming than the thought that every PJ album from here on will be 50% Ed solo songs with a few token tracks where the "other guys" get a song.[/quote]
Dude go back and read your liner notes....
Starting with Vitalogy, Ed has had more songs on the records than any 1 other member. Ed, traditionally, writes the stuff with the simplest structure and he writes complete 'songs'. You seriously need to read up on how PJ picks songs. It's very democratic. Nobody gets a song on a disc (or gets one recorded for that matter) unless at least one other member of the band nominates it. McCready had the most songs on S/T and Stone had 4 songs on Riot Act, he had 3 or 4 on Binaural.....and, to correct your comments from yesterday, he has 2 by himself on Backspacer and he helped with 2 others. And believe me, Ed does not write the other guy's parts even when he writes the tune. You need to 'get right'
Washington D.C. '04, London '05,Hamilton '05,Grand Rapids '06,
Cleveland '06, Detroit '06,Pittsburgh '06,Cincinnati '06,Chicago '07
NYC '08, NYC '08, Chicago '09, Chicago '09, ACL '09, Columbus 2010, Noblesville 2010, Cleveland 2010, Buffalo 2010.
To those without the intellectual capacity to comprehend nuance and subtlety, I'm sure that is how I seem. I've hated Riot Act for years though... how does that make me a flip-flopper? Half the people on here probably only know me by the fact that I hate that album so much, hehe. It's not like I was saying it was an absolute masterpiece yesterday and now claim it sucks. Do you know what flip-flop means?
In any event, the day I get into a fistfight over opinions about a rock band is the day I admit to the world that I am a pathetic loser with no life outside obsessing over posters and bootlegs. And on that day, I will kill myself.
Besides, any sort of fight with me is a bad idea. I don't fight fair
Well we should at least get drunk at throw stuff at each other. Maybe you'll get invited to the wedding too.
Washington D.C. '04, London '05,Hamilton '05,Grand Rapids '06,
Cleveland '06, Detroit '06,Pittsburgh '06,Cincinnati '06,Chicago '07
NYC '08, NYC '08, Chicago '09, Chicago '09, ACL '09, Columbus 2010, Noblesville 2010, Cleveland 2010, Buffalo 2010.
Yes, and those middle records were the best... Vitalogy-Binaural. Everyone had their hand in the album, and a lot of the songs were written together. Yield was an almost even split among the songwriters, with a lot of collaboration. Ditto for No Code. Even if Stone and Mike had a few more songs on the last 2 albums, those albums were 15 and 13 songs and Ed was still more than keeping pace with them. This album is 50% Ed and Ed alone... 5 out of 11 songs written solely by Ed with no input from anyone. You say he doesn't write the other guys' parts... what did Mike contribute to The End and Just Breathe then? All I hear is guitar and violin.
Sounds to me like you're not even trying to deny that songwriting credit distribution has changed, you're just telling me it's not a bad thing and the rest of the band said it's ok. That's fine and might be true. That still doesn't mean I have to like it. Stone might have voted in all 5 Ed songs, I'd still rather hear the songs he wrote than the songs Ed wrote that Stone likes.
I am ALWAYS up for getting drunk and throwing stuff. Count me in at the next Cleveland show!
5 out of 11 is only 45.45%
Washington D.C. '04, London '05,Hamilton '05,Grand Rapids '06,
Cleveland '06, Detroit '06,Pittsburgh '06,Cincinnati '06,Chicago '07
NYC '08, NYC '08, Chicago '09, Chicago '09, ACL '09, Columbus 2010, Noblesville 2010, Cleveland 2010, Buffalo 2010.
for the least they could possibly do
And, as always, slightofjeff hits the nail on the head.
Washington D.C. '04, London '05,Hamilton '05,Grand Rapids '06,
Cleveland '06, Detroit '06,Pittsburgh '06,Cincinnati '06,Chicago '07
NYC '08, NYC '08, Chicago '09, Chicago '09, ACL '09, Columbus 2010, Noblesville 2010, Cleveland 2010, Buffalo 2010.
why are comments like this ok, but not comments disagreeing about an album being a masterpiece? i actually don't have a problem with either, but i just don't understand it. (for the record, i LOVe just breathe....but amazingly, my husband doesn't - not a lyrics guy...and yes, he does have a soul
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
I'd double check. Can he see his reflection in the mirror? When he goes to the supermarket, do the automatic doors open? Or can they not even sense his presence? You better conduct some experiments.
for the least they could possibly do
i love conducting experiments.....but i can think of far more enticing ones than that.
but sure, deflect away from my actual point...tis ok.
btw - i actually was discussing backspacer with mr. dream over dinner last night as he finally gave it a first listen, overall he was 'eh'....but he said outright, i don't like that 'slow song'....and puts the album on, and plays just breathe.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
I didn't address that point because I came in on the back end of whatever discussion it sprung from, and didn't really want to get involved. Appropos of nothing, I just wanted to express my devotion to Just Breathe, and my belief that anyone who doesn't like must be inhabited by the spirit of Satan ... or maybe they're just deaf; can't hold it against deaf people. Not their fault.
The best thing about Ed's lyrics on this album, and really every album ... they would work as pure poetry, even without music behind them.
for the least they could possibly do