Health Care: Does Canada Do It Better?

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Comments

  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    polaris_x wrote:

    it is a distortion of the truth because it takes several examples and implies that's the way it is for everything everywhere ... that is simply not true ... touting US innovations and ignoring everyone else's is blatantly misleading ... shitty journalism ...

    our taxes are higher for a multitude of reasons ... but our gov't pays less per person on health care than yours and yet overall coverage is much better for the average person here ... that is why on every index in the world that deals with overall health care - Canada ranks higher than the US ... that's the crux of the problem ...

    and for-profit is NOT the best way for innovation ... just because you believe so and say so doesn't make it a fact ...


    please refrain from making statements you can't back up ...

    profit absolutely is the best way to lead to innovation. its common sense and lead by basic rules of Economics. people are greedy, even you know that. innovation leads to better products, which leads to more money and more profit.

    and talk about bullshit statements..."overall coverage is much better for the average person here" thats nothing more then your opinion. the video clearly shows you are wrong. but but you know a guy so I guess you are right.

    please refrain from making statements you can't back up.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    he still stands wrote:

    Not a smart thing to say to me buddy.

    :lol: ok
    he still stands wrote:
    Are you suggesting we should have had an abortion?

    no. I'm suggesting you should have been more responsible.
  • Pepe Silvia
    Pepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    jlew24asu wrote:
    I heart Scout Niblett wrote:

    people in the US who have insurance still have to wait to be seen

    so? you think a single payer system would bring those wait times down or up?


    i don't know but you can't point to wait times for a single payer system as a reason to not have it when our for profit system has similar wait times
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • Pepe Silvia
    Pepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    jlew24asu wrote:
    and talk about bullshit statements..."overall coverage is much better for the average person here" thats nothing more then your opinion. the video clearly shows you are wrong. but but you know a guy so I guess you are right.

    please refrain from making statements you can't back up.


    it's his opinion which is shared by any organization that ranks nations health care
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    I heart Scout Niblett wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:
    and talk about bullshit statements..."overall coverage is much better for the average person here" thats nothing more then your opinion. the video clearly shows you are wrong. but but you know a guy so I guess you are right.

    please refrain from making statements you can't back up.


    it's his opinion which is shared by any organization that ranks nations health care

    there are no organizations that rank nations health care. the last one was done in 2000.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    I heart Scout Niblett wrote:


    i don't know


    you don't know? the answer is wait times would rise under a single payer system
    I heart Scout Niblett wrote:
    but you can't point to wait times for a single payer system as a reason to not have it
    yes I can
    I heart Scout Niblett wrote:
    when our for profit system has similar wait times

    no they don't. wait times in Canada can be MONTHS.
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    jlew24asu wrote:
    profit absolutely is the best way to lead to innovation. its common sense and lead by basic rules of Economics. people are greedy, even you know that. innovation leads to better products, which leads to more money and more profit.

    and talk about bullshit statements..."overall coverage is much better for the average person here" thats nothing more then your opinion. the video clearly shows you are wrong. but but you know a guy so I guess you are right.

    please refrain from making statements you can't back up.

    i didn't say it was best because i know a guy ... i said goto any global index on overall health care coverage and see where the US stands vs. Canada ... either you purposefully chose to ignore that or you refuse to acknowledge that to be the case ... what is it? ... i've already told you the video is blatantly misleading - just because it agrees with your personal biases doesn't make it right ...

    for profit leads to many things ... it's given us the pet rock and the big mac ... it's also given us agent orange and bovine growth hormone ... it's also polluted many rivers and oceans ... are you telling me that all the RESEARCHERS in the world doing leading edge studies on Diabetes, Cancer and Parkinsons won't discover anything worthwhile because there isn't a dime to be made??
  • Kel Varnsen
    Kel Varnsen Posts: 1,952
    jlew24asu wrote:
    and you say wait times are long and money is a problem....imagine multiplying that by 10 and you have the US. we are ten times larger then you.

    This logic has never made sense to me. I mean the whole idea that the US is so much bigger than Canada so how could they ever possibly manage a health care system. Except what most people in the US don't realize is that health care is managed at the provincial level, not the federal level. How many US states have a population of greater than 11 million (which is the population of Ontario)?
  • he still stands
    he still stands Posts: 2,835
    jlew, do you ever make it to any shows? I'd like to meet you.
    Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    polaris_x wrote:

    i didn't say it was best because i know a guy ... i said goto any global index on overall health care coverage and see where the US stands vs. Canada ... either you purposefully chose to ignore that or you refuse to acknowledge that to be the case ... what is it? ... i've already told you the video is blatantly misleading - just because it agrees with your personal biases doesn't make it right ...

    and just because it disagrees with you personal biases doesn't make it wrong. whats in the video is factual.

    polaris_x wrote:
    for profit leads to many things ... it's given us the pet rock and the big mac ... it's also given us agent orange and bovine growth hormone ... it's also polluted many rivers and oceans ... are you telling me that all the RESEARCHERS in the world doing leading edge studies on Diabetes, Cancer and Parkinsons won't discover anything worthwhile because there isn't a dime to be made??

    researchers get paid too
  • Kel Varnsen
    Kel Varnsen Posts: 1,952
    jlew24asu wrote:
    profit absolutely is the best way to lead to innovation. its common sense and lead by basic rules of Economics. people are greedy, even you know that. innovation leads to better products, which leads to more money and more profit.

    When there is stiff competition profit is not always the best way to lead to innovation. In my line of work I work with a lot of construction companies and a lot of property management companies. Guess what, none of them want to to use innovative building technology and energy efficient design. Why, becuase they have to compete against other companies and not doing things as cheap as possible kills their profit. The only people who want to innovate are the public sector like schools and hospitals who don't have to worry about competition and maximizing profit.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Kel Varnsen wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:
    and you say wait times are long and money is a problem....imagine multiplying that by 10 and you have the US. we are ten times larger then you.

    This logic has never made sense to me. I mean the whole idea that the US is so much bigger than Canada so how could they ever possibly manage a health care system. Except what most people in the US don't realize is that health care is managed at the provincial level, not the federal level. How many US states have a population of greater than 11 million (which is the population of Ontario)?

    California is bigger then your entire country.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U. ... population
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    he still stands wrote:
    jlew, do you ever make it to any shows? I'd like to meet you.

    I've been to 22 shows since 95. why do you want to meet me?
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Kel Varnsen wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:
    profit absolutely is the best way to lead to innovation. its common sense and lead by basic rules of Economics. people are greedy, even you know that. innovation leads to better products, which leads to more money and more profit.

    When there is stiff competition profit is not always the best way to lead to innovation. In my line of work I work with a lot of construction companies and a lot of property management companies. Guess what, none of them want to to use innovative building technology and energy efficient design. Why, becuase they have to compete against other companies and not doing things as cheap as possible kills their profit. The only people who want to innovate are the public sector like schools and hospitals who don't have to worry about competition and maximizing profit.

    thats completely ass backwards. I work for a trading firm who spends almost all its profits into developing a better trading platform.

    your example deals with cutting costs to lead to better buildings. better buildings means you charge more for them, etc.

    you are just a little bit confused on the economics of it.
  • Pepe Silvia
    Pepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    jlew24asu wrote:
    I heart Scout Niblett wrote:


    i don't know


    you don't know? the answer is wait times would rise under a single payer system
    I heart Scout Niblett wrote:
    but you can't point to wait times for a single payer system as a reason to not have it
    yes I can
    I heart Scout Niblett wrote:
    when our for profit system has similar wait times

    no they don't. wait times in Canada can be MONTHS.

    they can be MONTHS in the US, too
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • Kel Varnsen
    Kel Varnsen Posts: 1,952
    jlew24asu wrote:
    Kel Varnsen wrote:
    jlew24asu wrote:
    profit absolutely is the best way to lead to innovation. its common sense and lead by basic rules of Economics. people are greedy, even you know that. innovation leads to better products, which leads to more money and more profit.

    When there is stiff competition profit is not always the best way to lead to innovation. In my line of work I work with a lot of construction companies and a lot of property management companies. Guess what, none of them want to to use innovative building technology and energy efficient design. Why, becuase they have to compete against other companies and not doing things as cheap as possible kills their profit. The only people who want to innovate are the public sector like schools and hospitals who don't have to worry about competition and maximizing profit.

    thats completely ass backwards. I work for a trading firm who spends almost all its profits into developing a better trading platform.

    your example deals with cutting costs to lead to better buildings. better buildings means you charge more for them, etc.

    you are just a little bit confused on the economics of it.


    Actually my example deals with cutting costs and making cheaper buildings to maximize profits and be as competitive as possible, rather making less profits and exploring innovation. What reason wouldn't private insurance companies do the exact same thing?
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    jlew24asu wrote:
    and just because it disagrees with you personal biases doesn't make it wrong. whats in the video is factual.

    i didn't say it was wrong - i said it's blatantly misleading (two different concepts) ... i can make a video of only bad things happening at US hospitals like the guy who dies in the waiting room because no one attended to him ... does it make it across the board in US the same?? ...
    jlew24asu wrote:
    researchers get paid too

    ????? this has absolutely no relevance ...
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Kel Varnsen wrote:

    Actually my example deals with cutting costs and making cheaper buildings to maximize profits and be as competitive as possible, rather making less profits and exploring innovation. What reason wouldn't private insurance companies do the exact same thing?

    because private insurance companies have nothing to do with medical technology or drug innovation
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    polaris_x wrote:

    i didn't say it was wrong - i said it's blatantly misleading (two different concepts) ... i can make a video of only bad things happening at US hospitals like the guy who dies in the waiting room because no one attended to him ... does it make it across the board in US the same?? ...

    but the Canadian system is treated a royalty around here. obviously you said its not perfect but you certainly regard it as better then in the US. I would applaud a video that shows the downfalls of our current system so we know the areas to focus on to make them better.

    polaris_x wrote:

    ????? this has absolutely no relevance ...

    maybe I misuderstood the point you were trying to make
  • Kel Varnsen
    Kel Varnsen Posts: 1,952
    jlew24asu wrote:
    Kel Varnsen wrote:

    Actually my example deals with cutting costs and making cheaper buildings to maximize profits and be as competitive as possible, rather making less profits and exploring innovation. What reason wouldn't private insurance companies do the exact same thing?

    because private insurance companies have nothing to do with medical technology or drug innovation

    Then I am curious why you brought up the old profit leads to innovation chestnut when talking about the Canadian health care system vs. the US system. I mean the only basic difference is that in the Canadian system, the government is the one paying the bills and they are not out to make a profit.

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