do because someone sells a product in an out of date manner it's cool to say fuck it I'll take it the modern way?
Isn't it common sense that if the band wanted it leaked they'd leak it themselves?
Eventually all bands and record labels are going to have to adapt to the changing times, that might suck for the artist, but it's reality. I don't see why Pearl Jam should be exempt from this just because they're my favourite band.
I don't really know the band's wishes, we can all guess, but there is no real open avenue for communication between band and their fans, I wish there was.
Since I do not personally know your wishes about not being robbed, I will steal your car and hope for the best. What is wrong is wrong. You might as well move to China where they steal any idea regardless of patents.
I don't see how anyone can justify listening to a leak just because they are planning on buying the album when it is released.
Do these same people think they are entitled to sex if they spend a lot of money on a date?
The entitlement in regards to leaks is baffling!
If I may add something to the "leak issue":
Back in the late 80's and early 90's, music labels would send promo cassettes to record stores to generate some advanced buzz. It was also a way for the labels to schmooze the store into picking up a few extra copies of the product and making it a featured item in the racks. (If you are from the generation that doesn't know what a cassette or record store is, this may be lost on you. )
When I was a teenager, there was a local indy shop where I would buy CD's, records, and tapes from on a weekly basis. Knowing that I was a loyal customer, the owner would often give me these promo cassettes if he thought I was a fan of whatever band sent him something, or if he thought I might enjoy a new artist.
Now, he wasn't supposed to give these out, as it would have been VERY easy to make dubs of these tapes and pass them out WEEKS before the album went on sale. All he asked was that I buy a physical copy of the album upon its' official release (if I liked it), and not to distribute copies to my friends. I always bought the official version (from his store), and I never dubbed a copy.
Was he breaking a copyright law? Yup. Said so right on the package.
Was he letting me hear something that the band might not want me to hear yet? Yup.
Did it cost him a sale, or more directly, did it cost the band a sale? Nope. Not once.
The record industry has changed since then, and I admit that it has taking a beating. Yes, some people will steal music and not support the artists that create it. That has been going on since the 60's, when people working at pressing plants would "bootleg" extra copies of official releases and sell them without the label, the artist, or the record pressing plant getting a dime. Then it was record to cassette taping. Then it was dual cassettes decks. It went on and on until what we have today. While it takes place on a larger scale, it's nothing new.
But please don't lecture others on what you consider "entitlement", let alone compare it to date rape. Distributing an album for free without the band's consent is bullshit. I get your point. However, the people on this message board are the ones who will purchase the album even if they get a leaked copy weeks in advance. They are curious, they love the band, and they support them. Is it a crime? Yes it is. Going 5 miles above the speed limit is a crime. Smoking pot is a crime. Drinking under 21 is a crime. Yet, I'd bet good money that MOST of the people on this board have committed at least one of those offenses. It doesn't make them bad people, it doesn't make them "entitled", and it sure as hell isn't something I would put in the same league as date rape.
Your opinion is cool with me, but your delivery of said opinion is lacking.
Take care, and enjoy the new album on release day.
Is it a crime? Yes it is. Going 5 miles above the speed limit is a crime. Smoking pot is a crime. Drinking under 21 is a crime. Yet, I'd bet good money that MOST of the people on this board have committed at least one of those offenses.
Is it a crime? Yes it is. Going 5 miles above the speed limit is a crime. Smoking pot is a crime. Drinking under 21 is a crime. Yet, I'd bet good money that MOST of the people on this board have committed at least one of those offenses.
do i get a prize for going 3 for 3?
Sorry. 3 for 3 is a solid effort, but the prizes were already given out to those who were doing all 3 at the same time. A.K.A- Everyone I knew in high school.
I guess we are all summising to a degree however when one of the bands spokespeople come to the thread and say it's not what the band wants, isn't that enough in this instance?
And facep you make some good points but to be fair if the band were slightly on board with the reznor train if thought thus record would be streaming now. It's not. This is the first time they've Been free to do it and they haven't. Tells the story for me
Yeah I understand what Kat was saying, I guess it's easy to say when you more than likely get to listen to the record early yourself though
I doubt Reznor would release an album in exactly the same way again because there is always room for improvement, but I think he has proved that innovation can be a good thing for bands. I think the band are definitely showing signs of progression in terms of how they release their music, hence the Target deal and the limited edition formats. What's more, all we are really discussing here is the leak - a soon as it gets released it will be freely available to download to anyone, at this point it's splitting hairs. I doubt the band are losing any sleep about whether it leaks at this point, it is virtually inevitable.
In terms of me and my personal position, and it seems that is what is really causing the issue here, regardless of whether I download a leak, I've been a loyal fan for fifteen years. In that time I've been to see them at every opportunity I can, bought all their records, loads of bootlegs, t shirts, merchandise etc. Whilst I know a lot of people here feel they 'know' the band through their music, the reality of the situation is we don't. They're not the most accessible of bands in terms of band/fan interaction. I don't blame them for that one little bit, they've had some really dark moments with fame and prefer to keep their distance, for good reason. And with that in mind, I can make my peace with downloading a leak early, because I don;t know them. It might not be what the band ideally want, but to my mind, a fan being desperate to hear your work surely isn't really that awful in the grand scheme of things, particularly when they are going to pay for it eventually anyway, and support you in other ways. I don't feel entitled to listen to it early, I'm just weak when it comes to my favourite band. It's the same weakness that has at times gotten me into debt when I've paid to go see them when I should have been paying off other debts :oops:
Once again a thorough recount on the history of piracy, but once again one that is not relevant to the discussion at hand. I think we all knew all of that. Quite simply because a fan is eager or impatient doesn't change a thing. Just because your buying the record anyway or just because you love the band is a non point. The record has a release date for a purpose. Where is the problem with that? Even kat has come here to confirm the position too and yet this carries on with folk trying to justify it
I don't see how anyone can justify listening to a leak just because they are planning on buying the album when it is released.
Do these same people think they are entitled to sex if they spend a lot of money on a date?
The entitlement in regards to leaks is baffling!
If I may add something to the "leak issue":
Back in the late 80's and early 90's, music labels would send promo cassettes to record stores to generate some advanced buzz. It was also a way for the labels to schmooze the store into picking up a few extra copies of the product and making it a featured item in the racks. (If you are from the generation that doesn't know what a cassette or record store is, this may be lost on you. )
When I was a teenager, there was a local indy shop where I would buy CD's, records, and tapes from on a weekly basis. Knowing that I was a loyal customer, the owner would often give me these promo cassettes if he thought I was a fan of whatever band sent him something, or if he thought I might enjoy a new artist.
Now, he wasn't supposed to give these out, as it would have been VERY easy to make dubs of these tapes and pass them out WEEKS before the album went on sale. All he asked was that I buy a physical copy of the album upon its' official release (if I liked it), and not to distribute copies to my friends. I always bought the official version (from his store), and I never dubbed a copy.
Was he breaking a copyright law? Yup. Said so right on the package.
Was he letting me hear something that the band might not want me to hear yet? Yup.
Did it cost him a sale, or more directly, did it cost the band a sale? Nope. Not once.
The record industry has changed since then, and I admit that it has taking a beating. Yes, some people will steal music and not support the artists that create it. That has been going on since the 60's, when people working at pressing plants would "bootleg" extra copies of official releases and sell them without the label, the artist, or the record pressing plant getting a dime. Then it was record to cassette taping. Then it was dual cassettes decks. It went on and on until what we have today. While it takes place on a larger scale, it's nothing new.
But please don't lecture others on what you consider "entitlement", let alone compare it to date rape. Distributing an album for free without the band's consent is bullshit. I get your point. However, the people on this message board are the ones who will purchase the album even if they get a leaked copy weeks in advance. They are curious, they love the band, and they support them. Is it a crime? Yes it is. Going 5 miles above the speed limit is a crime. Smoking pot is a crime. Drinking under 21 is a crime. Yet, I'd bet good money that MOST of the people on this board have committed at least one of those offenses. It doesn't make them bad people, it doesn't make them "entitled", and it sure as hell isn't something I would put in the same league as date rape.
Your opinion is cool with me, but your delivery of said opinion is lacking.
Take care, and enjoy the new album on release day.
Once again a thorough recount on the history of piracy, but once again one that is not relevant to the discussion at hand. I think we all knew all of that. Quite simply because a fan is eager or impatient doesn't change a thing. Just because your buying the record anyway or just because you love the band is a non point. The record has a release date for a purpose. Where is the problem with that? Even kat has come here to confirm the position too and yet this carries on with folk trying to justify it
Well then I think we all need to accept that this is a moral argument, nothing more nothing less. Personally speaking, downloading a record passes my 'moral barometer' . I don't think it's the worst thing a person could do, as myself and plenty of others have pointed out, there are plenty of seemingly minor crimes that we all commit at some point, which essentially makes a lot of people (I'm not naming names) on here self-righteous and a tad hypocritical.
Once again a thorough recount on the history of piracy, but once again one that is not relevant to the discussion at hand. I think we all knew all of that. Quite simply because a fan is eager or impatient doesn't change a thing. Just because your buying the record anyway or just because you love the band is a non point. The record has a release date for a purpose. Where is the problem with that? Even kat has come here to confirm the position too and yet this carries on with folk trying to justify it
Well then I think we all need to accept that this is a moral argument, nothing more nothing less. Personally speaking, downloading a record passes my 'moral barometer' . I don't think it's the worst thing a person could do, as myself and plenty of others have pointed out, there are plenty of seemingly minor crimes that we all commit at some point, which essentially makes a lot of people (I'm not naming names) on here self-righteous and a tad hypocritical.
I suppose you are quite right in this, I have felt strongly about downloading for some years....hence the high horse stance, I do believe in what I have written above but in the grander scheme of things I think there are more important things in the world to worry about.
Lets agree to disagree, if it leaks you'll enjoy it before I will.....theres only one loser there
Comments
Since I do not personally know your wishes about not being robbed, I will steal your car and hope for the best. What is wrong is wrong. You might as well move to China where they steal any idea regardless of patents.
If I may add something to the "leak issue":
Back in the late 80's and early 90's, music labels would send promo cassettes to record stores to generate some advanced buzz. It was also a way for the labels to schmooze the store into picking up a few extra copies of the product and making it a featured item in the racks. (If you are from the generation that doesn't know what a cassette or record store is, this may be lost on you.
When I was a teenager, there was a local indy shop where I would buy CD's, records, and tapes from on a weekly basis. Knowing that I was a loyal customer, the owner would often give me these promo cassettes if he thought I was a fan of whatever band sent him something, or if he thought I might enjoy a new artist.
Now, he wasn't supposed to give these out, as it would have been VERY easy to make dubs of these tapes and pass them out WEEKS before the album went on sale. All he asked was that I buy a physical copy of the album upon its' official release (if I liked it), and not to distribute copies to my friends. I always bought the official version (from his store), and I never dubbed a copy.
Was he breaking a copyright law? Yup. Said so right on the package.
Was he letting me hear something that the band might not want me to hear yet? Yup.
Did it cost him a sale, or more directly, did it cost the band a sale? Nope. Not once.
The record industry has changed since then, and I admit that it has taking a beating. Yes, some people will steal music and not support the artists that create it. That has been going on since the 60's, when people working at pressing plants would "bootleg" extra copies of official releases and sell them without the label, the artist, or the record pressing plant getting a dime. Then it was record to cassette taping. Then it was dual cassettes decks. It went on and on until what we have today. While it takes place on a larger scale, it's nothing new.
But please don't lecture others on what you consider "entitlement", let alone compare it to date rape. Distributing an album for free without the band's consent is bullshit. I get your point. However, the people on this message board are the ones who will purchase the album even if they get a leaked copy weeks in advance. They are curious, they love the band, and they support them. Is it a crime? Yes it is. Going 5 miles above the speed limit is a crime. Smoking pot is a crime. Drinking under 21 is a crime. Yet, I'd bet good money that MOST of the people on this board have committed at least one of those offenses. It doesn't make them bad people, it doesn't make them "entitled", and it sure as hell isn't something I would put in the same league as date rape.
Your opinion is cool with me, but your delivery of said opinion is lacking.
Take care, and enjoy the new album on release day.
do i get a prize for going 3 for 3?
gonzo
4/10/94, 9/28/96, 9/29/96, 4/30/03, 7/8/03, 7/9/03, 10/01/04, 9/15/05, 9/30/05, 10/01/05, 5/4/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/19/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/31/09, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 9/3/11, 9/4/11, 10/15/13, 10/18/13, 10/19/13, 10/25/13, 9/26/15, 4/28/16, 4/29/16, 5/1/16, 5/2/16, 8/5/16, 8/7/16, 4/7/17, 8/8/18, 8/10/18, 9/10/22, 9/11/22
Sorry. 3 for 3 is a solid effort, but the prizes were already given out to those who were doing all 3 at the same time. A.K.A- Everyone I knew in high school.
Well then I think we all need to accept that this is a moral argument, nothing more nothing less. Personally speaking, downloading a record passes my 'moral barometer'
I suppose you are quite right in this, I have felt strongly about downloading for some years....hence the high horse stance, I do believe in what I have written above but in the grander scheme of things I think there are more important things in the world to worry about.
Lets agree to disagree, if it leaks you'll enjoy it before I will.....theres only one loser there