the bottom line is..ive spent more money on pearl jam than i have anything else in my entire life...if i want to listen to an album that I will buy more than one copy of i dont need to justify it to some uppity poster on this forum..end of story.
Sure I "get" that, but it's completely selfish. If you are a fan of something I assume you respect the artist or at least the art. But then you are going to give the ol middle finger to the respect (your respect for that matter) and take something you shouldn't be. It's pure hypocrisy. There is no justification for it. It's just wrong. We are going in circles here. I just don't agree with it and that's that.
Well then, I think you either need to find a bit of objectivity, or maybe turn a blind eye to these debates, rather than arguing the finer detail, because it keeps coming back to a moral issue of respect to you - which is not objective. What Trent Reznor, and myself for that matter, are doing, is living in the real world. Trent managed to make millions from physical sales of The Slip - an album that to this day, is still available for free on NIN's site. So at the end of the day, if the band makes the money some way, the picture isn't quite as bleak as you paint it.
im pretty sure Trent has fuck all to do with pearl Jam right?
On album leaks: I’m surprised it hasn’t leaked yet. That’s the shock. You don’t want to have people hearing a leaked version as a first source. It’s inevitable that those things happen. I don’t spend much time stressing about it. - stone
When the band is ready to release their music, they will. It's completely up to them because, honestly, it's their music. They wrote it, they own it, they decide.
You write & record music, you own it, you decide.
That's it...it's easy.
It won't be long now...release day is coming...can't wait to enjoy it with you all.
Im not asking people to have my morals, Im asking people the respect the bands wishes. If you call yourself a fan I think their should be some level of respect there. If you respect people you shouldn't take from them. It's pretty simple.
I've never spoken to the band members personally, but I'm betting they are just as realistic about this situation as Reznor is - why else would they put so much effort into their merchandise? Plus didn't Ed steal a record from a store when he was younger? I swear I read that somewhere......
Anyone remember the article from Stone from early August about it leaking in July?
It was an interview, I believe the one he did with the radio station in Philly. I remember he said that leaking was inevitable nowadays and seemed quite unmoved by the idea of it happening. It is on the sticky thread on the boards front page.
I'll wait for the 20th regardless, I'm not so impatient that I can't hold out a few days and I wanna have the beautiful packing in my hand and smell it and run home excited about sticking it in the player.
On album leaks: I’m surprised it hasn’t leaked yet. That’s the shock. You don’t want to have people hearing a leaked version as a first source. It’s inevitable that those things happen. I don’t spend much time stressing about it. - stone
I agree with Stone. Personally, I would love to have the strength to wait...but I don't. It's there slapping me all over the face how great the album is...I'm going to want to listen to it. I'd love to have my first listen be on the vinyl...but I'm weak. That doesn't make me a bad fan or "stealing" from the band. It means I'm fucking weak. Good find Norm.
im pretty sure Trent has fuck all to do with pearl Jam right?
Well he is in a very similar position to them being from the same generation, they share a lot of the same fan base. They've also both recognised that record sales alone are not going to sustain ANY band, and have thus decided to leave the traditionl model behind and have chosen to evolve. This approach has rewarded them both richly. Both acts are still able to sell out arenas around the world and have loyal fan bases.
This isnt about money out of Pearl Jam's pocket. It's about mutual respect. The members of this band are pretty respectful to their fans, we should respect how they want to release and distribute THEIR music.
And yet we're back to the moral story.....for all you know, they might have wanted to have it out there earlier, but they have the constraints of a record label etc. Personally speaking, they might not care at all - you don't know any better than I do.
dude they don't have a record label in the states
plus they choose to not release boots probably before the album release for a reason right?
They consciously don't play much off backspacer on the recent dates, coincidence?
If they see the world like Trent does why isn't this record free?
And why has stone been banging on about how cool it is to make 5 bucks a record now rather than 2 if money wasn't important?
Ha ha! Yeah, I take your point there. I was more looking at stuff like the posters, limited edition t-shirts they sell from time to time, exclusive packaging for cds and vinyl, poster books, signed copies of the Ten box set etc. I swear some guy round here said he bought TEN copies of Riot Act
im pretty sure Trent has fuck all to do with pearl Jam right?
Well he is in a very similar position to them being from the same generation, they share a lot of the same fan base. They've also both recognised that record sales alone are not going to sustain ANY band, and have thus decided to leave the traditionl model behind and have chosen to evolve. This approach has rewarded them both richly. Both acts are still able to sell out arenas around the world and have loyal fan bases.
seems to me your just making shit up Now to sustain your argument
everything you wrote there was you assuming things about Trent and you only use him because he's the major artist who gives his music away
Ha ha! Yeah, I take your point there. I was more looking at stuff like the posters, limited edition t-shirts they sell from time to time, exclusive packaging for cds and vinyl, poster books, signed copies of the Ten box set etc. I swear some guy round here said he bought TEN copies of Riot Act
plus they choose to not release boots probably before the album release for a reason right?
They consciously don't play much off backspacer on the recent dates, coincidence?
If they see the world like Trent does why isn't this record free?
And why has stone been banging on about how cool it is to make 5 bucks a record now rather than 2 if money wasn't important?
They do have a record deal around the rest of the world though, a European record label, for example, is just as important as an American one !
The boot thing, and playing new live stuff again could be stipulated by the record label - or in their deal with Target - they will want to be maximising sales of the album too.
Making more money from the album may give them freedom to do things on their own terms in the future. They don't seem the type of band to live a jet-set kind of lifestyle, fire poles in houses aside
Here's something that Better Than Ezra did when you pre-ordered their last album. The day you order the album...it ships. Sure people got there's a day earlier, but I think people would hold off on leaks (for the most part) if they knew their copy was in transit.
It's too hard to resist sometimes when a album leaks weeks or months before the street date if it is a artist you love.
seems to me your just making shit up Now to sustain your argument
everything you wrote there was you assuming things about Trent and you only use him because he's the major artist who gives his music away
No I'm using him as an example because he's one of the most progressive artists out there, and one of the few that are in Pj's league in terms of stature. The reality is that people don't have to pay for music anymore. You can debate that all you want, but it's fact.
Plus, he's proof that you can give music away, and still make a very decent living as a musician, which is completely contrary to the archaic moralistic stuff so many people still seem to be clinging on to.
So you accept the band want to make cash off the record sales? So nothing like trent then?
The band are in control of this record. That is very clear. Island records have zero input into what they play live. Why else would they strive to be independant and evolutionary if they sign to be told what they can play?
Eddie has said before he's against this stuff hence higher ticket prices. Seems to me the band want us to wait. Without coming out and saying it I think they've been pretty clear on that in their actions
plus they choose to not release boots probably before the album release for a reason right?
They consciously don't play much off backspacer on the recent dates, coincidence?
If they see the world like Trent does why isn't this record free?
And why has stone been banging on about how cool it is to make 5 bucks a record now rather than 2 if money wasn't important?
They do have a record deal around the rest of the world though, a European record label, for example, is just as important as an American one !
The boot thing, and playing new live stuff again could be stipulated by the record label - or in their deal with Target - they will want to be maximising sales of the album too.
Making more money from the album may give them freedom to do things on their own terms in the future. They don't seem the type of band to live a jet-set kind of lifestyle, fire poles in houses aside
When the band is ready to release their music, they will. It's completely up to them because, honestly, it's their music. They wrote it, they own it, they decide.
You write & record music, you own it, you decide.
That's it...it's easy.
It won't be long now...release day is coming...can't wait to enjoy it with you all.
xo
o shit this is getting way too serious.relax.if it leaks it leaks people will listen to it and that's just the way it is. it doesn't make you less of a person to want to enjoy something sooner than later.
i think we all need to just distract ourselves for a couple weeks. start a puzzle, read a book, start a crossword puzzle or jumble ...etc.
seems to me your just making shit up Now to sustain your argument
everything you wrote there was you assuming things about Trent and you only use him because he's the major artist who gives his music away
No I'm using him as an example because he's one of the most progressive artists out there, and one of the few that are in Pj's league in terms of stature. The reality is that people don't have to pay for music anymore. You can debate that all you want, but it's fact.
Plus, he's proof that you can give music away, and still make a very decent living as a musician, which is completely contrary to the archaic moralistic stuff so many people still seem to be clinging on to.
do because someone sells a product in an out of date manner it's cool to say fuck it I'll take it the modern way?
Isn't it common sense that if the band wanted it leaked they'd leak it themselves?
So you accept the band want to make cash off the record sales? So nothing like trent then?
The band are in control of this record. That is very clear. Island records have zero input into what they play live. Why else would they strive to be independant and evolutionary if they sign to be told what they can play?
Eddie has said before he's against this stuff hence higher ticket prices. Seems to me the band want us to wait. Without coming out and saying it I think they've been pretty clear on that in their actions
I'm sure every band wants to make money from record sales. And sorry, but you have misread the Reznor thing - he made a lot of money from selling physical copies of the slip, despite giving it away for free, same with Radiohead. What I'm saying, is that like Trent, Pearl Jam have realised that record sales don't have to be their main source of income, and that by negotiating a unique deal like they have with Target, they are able to compensate for some losses by making more money from each cd sold, than they would through a traditional record deal.
I can understand that the band might want to have the record heard in decent quality as a whole, but they might not have cared, for example if the album had come out two months earlier. These things tend to be decided more by legal stuff, release schedules, venue availability for the accompanying tour etc, not necessarily by the band's 'wishes'.
Here's something that Better Than Ezra did when you pre-ordered their last album. The day you order the album...it ships. Sure people got there's a day earlier, but I think people would hold off on leaks (for the most part) if they knew their copy was in transit.
It's too hard to resist sometimes when a album leaks weeks or months before the street date if it is a artist you love.
They did do that, but I ordered like the first day of that presale and it didnt ship for a good week after ordering and I don't believe anyone's did. I wound up getting it a little early, but it definitely didn't ship for a while after they said it would.
Here's something that Better Than Ezra did when you pre-ordered their last album. The day you order the album...it ships. Sure people got there's a day earlier, but I think people would hold off on leaks (for the most part) if they knew their copy was in transit.
It's too hard to resist sometimes when a album leaks weeks or months before the street date if it is a artist you love.
They did do that, but I ordered like the first day of that presale and it didnt ship for a good week after ordering and I don't believe anyone's did. I wound up getting it a little early, but it definitely didn't ship for a while after they said it would.
Very true. However, I know via Tom that there were some issues with the distribution out of Chicago. I also think BTE was caught off guard on the number of pre-sales which a band of PJ's stature would be a little more prepared for.
do because someone sells a product in an out of date manner it's cool to say fuck it I'll take it the modern way?
Isn't it common sense that if the band wanted it leaked they'd leak it themselves?
Eventually all bands and record labels are going to have to adapt to the changing times, that might suck for the artist, but it's reality. I don't see why Pearl Jam should be exempt from this just because they're my favourite band.
I don't really know the band's wishes, we can all guess, but there is no real open avenue for communication between band and their fans, I wish there was.
I guess we are all summising to a degree however when one of the bands spokespeople come to the thread and say it's not what the band wants, isn't that enough in this instance?
And facep you make some good points but to be fair if the band were slightly on board with the reznor train if thought thus record would be streaming now. It's not. This is the first time they've Been free to do it and they haven't. Tells the story for me
I guess we are all summising to a degree however when one of the bands spokespeople come to the thread and say it's not what the band wants, isn't that enough in this instance?
And facep you make some good points but to be fair if the band were slightly on board with the reznor train if thought thus record would be streaming now. It's not. This is the first time they've Been free to do it and they haven't. Tells the story for me
Yeah I understand what Kat was saying, I guess it's easy to say when you more than likely get to listen to the record early yourself though
I doubt Reznor would release an album in exactly the same way again because there is always room for improvement, but I think he has proved that innovation can be a good thing for bands. I think the band are definitely showing signs of progression in terms of how they release their music, hence the Target deal and the limited edition formats. What's more, all we are really discussing here is the leak - a soon as it gets released it will be freely available to download to anyone, at this point it's splitting hairs. I doubt the band are losing any sleep about whether it leaks at this point, it is virtually inevitable.
In terms of me and my personal position, and it seems that is what is really causing the issue here, regardless of whether I download a leak, I've been a loyal fan for fifteen years. In that time I've been to see them at every opportunity I can, bought all their records, loads of bootlegs, t shirts, merchandise etc. Whilst I know a lot of people here feel they 'know' the band through their music, the reality of the situation is we don't. They're not the most accessible of bands in terms of band/fan interaction. I don't blame them for that one little bit, they've had some really dark moments with fame and prefer to keep their distance, for good reason. And with that in mind, I can make my peace with downloading a leak early, because I don;t know them. It might not be what the band ideally want, but to my mind, a fan being desperate to hear your work surely isn't really that awful in the grand scheme of things, particularly when they are going to pay for it eventually anyway, and support you in other ways. I don't feel entitled to listen to it early, I'm just weak when it comes to my favourite band. It's the same weakness that has at times gotten me into debt when I've paid to go see them when I should have been paying off other debts :oops:
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http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
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im pretty sure Trent has fuck all to do with pearl Jam right?
http://www.twofeetthick.com/2009/07/stone-on-the-phone/
You write & record music, you own it, you decide.
That's it...it's easy.
It won't be long now...release day is coming...can't wait to enjoy it with you all.
xo
take it you didn't see the 2009 tour merch?
It was an interview, I believe the one he did with the radio station in Philly. I remember he said that leaking was inevitable nowadays and seemed quite unmoved by the idea of it happening. It is on the sticky thread on the boards front page.
I'll wait for the 20th regardless, I'm not so impatient that I can't hold out a few days and I wanna have the beautiful packing in my hand and smell it and run home excited about sticking it in the player.
I agree with Stone. Personally, I would love to have the strength to wait...but I don't. It's there slapping me all over the face how great the album is...I'm going to want to listen to it. I'd love to have my first listen be on the vinyl...but I'm weak. That doesn't make me a bad fan or "stealing" from the band. It means I'm fucking weak. Good find Norm.
http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
Well he is in a very similar position to them being from the same generation, they share a lot of the same fan base. They've also both recognised that record sales alone are not going to sustain ANY band, and have thus decided to leave the traditionl model behind and have chosen to evolve. This approach has rewarded them both richly. Both acts are still able to sell out arenas around the world and have loyal fan bases.
dude they don't have a record label in the states
plus they choose to not release boots probably before the album release for a reason right?
They consciously don't play much off backspacer on the recent dates, coincidence?
If they see the world like Trent does why isn't this record free?
And why has stone been banging on about how cool it is to make 5 bucks a record now rather than 2 if money wasn't important?
Ha ha! Yeah, I take your point there. I was more looking at stuff like the posters, limited edition t-shirts they sell from time to time, exclusive packaging for cds and vinyl, poster books, signed copies of the Ten box set etc. I swear some guy round here said he bought TEN copies of Riot Act
seems to me your just making shit up Now to sustain your argument
everything you wrote there was you assuming things about Trent and you only use him because he's the major artist who gives his music away
ha ha you got me
I was just playing around with that post
They do have a record deal around the rest of the world though, a European record label, for example, is just as important as an American one
The boot thing, and playing new live stuff again could be stipulated by the record label - or in their deal with Target - they will want to be maximising sales of the album too.
Making more money from the album may give them freedom to do things on their own terms in the future. They don't seem the type of band to live a jet-set kind of lifestyle, fire poles in houses aside
It's too hard to resist sometimes when a album leaks weeks or months before the street date if it is a artist you love.
http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
No I'm using him as an example because he's one of the most progressive artists out there, and one of the few that are in Pj's league in terms of stature. The reality is that people don't have to pay for music anymore. You can debate that all you want, but it's fact.
Plus, he's proof that you can give music away, and still make a very decent living as a musician, which is completely contrary to the archaic moralistic stuff so many people still seem to be clinging on to.
The band are in control of this record. That is very clear. Island records have zero input into what they play live. Why else would they strive to be independant and evolutionary if they sign to be told what they can play?
Eddie has said before he's against this stuff hence higher ticket prices. Seems to me the band want us to wait. Without coming out and saying it I think they've been pretty clear on that in their actions
o shit this is getting way too serious.relax.if it leaks it leaks people will listen to it and that's just the way it is. it doesn't make you less of a person to want to enjoy something sooner than later.
i think we all need to just distract ourselves for a couple weeks. start a puzzle, read a book, start a crossword puzzle or jumble ...etc.
do because someone sells a product in an out of date manner it's cool to say fuck it I'll take it the modern way?
Isn't it common sense that if the band wanted it leaked they'd leak it themselves?
I'm sure every band wants to make money from record sales. And sorry, but you have misread the Reznor thing - he made a lot of money from selling physical copies of the slip, despite giving it away for free, same with Radiohead. What I'm saying, is that like Trent, Pearl Jam have realised that record sales don't have to be their main source of income, and that by negotiating a unique deal like they have with Target, they are able to compensate for some losses by making more money from each cd sold, than they would through a traditional record deal.
I can understand that the band might want to have the record heard in decent quality as a whole, but they might not have cared, for example if the album had come out two months earlier. These things tend to be decided more by legal stuff, release schedules, venue availability for the accompanying tour etc, not necessarily by the band's 'wishes'.
Very true. However, I know via Tom that there were some issues with the distribution out of Chicago. I also think BTE was caught off guard on the number of pre-sales which a band of PJ's stature would be a little more prepared for.
http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
Eventually all bands and record labels are going to have to adapt to the changing times, that might suck for the artist, but it's reality. I don't see why Pearl Jam should be exempt from this just because they're my favourite band.
I don't really know the band's wishes, we can all guess, but there is no real open avenue for communication between band and their fans, I wish there was.
And facep you make some good points but to be fair if the band were slightly on board with the reznor train if thought thus record would be streaming now. It's not. This is the first time they've Been free to do it and they haven't. Tells the story for me
Do these same people think they are entitled to sex if they spend a lot of money on a date?
The entitlement in regards to leaks is baffling!
Yeah I understand what Kat was saying, I guess it's easy to say when you more than likely get to listen to the record early yourself though
I doubt Reznor would release an album in exactly the same way again because there is always room for improvement, but I think he has proved that innovation can be a good thing for bands. I think the band are definitely showing signs of progression in terms of how they release their music, hence the Target deal and the limited edition formats. What's more, all we are really discussing here is the leak - a soon as it gets released it will be freely available to download to anyone, at this point it's splitting hairs. I doubt the band are losing any sleep about whether it leaks at this point, it is virtually inevitable.
In terms of me and my personal position, and it seems that is what is really causing the issue here, regardless of whether I download a leak, I've been a loyal fan for fifteen years. In that time I've been to see them at every opportunity I can, bought all their records, loads of bootlegs, t shirts, merchandise etc. Whilst I know a lot of people here feel they 'know' the band through their music, the reality of the situation is we don't. They're not the most accessible of bands in terms of band/fan interaction. I don't blame them for that one little bit, they've had some really dark moments with fame and prefer to keep their distance, for good reason. And with that in mind, I can make my peace with downloading a leak early, because I don;t know them. It might not be what the band ideally want, but to my mind, a fan being desperate to hear your work surely isn't really that awful in the grand scheme of things, particularly when they are going to pay for it eventually anyway, and support you in other ways. I don't feel entitled to listen to it early, I'm just weak when it comes to my favourite band. It's the same weakness that has at times gotten me into debt when I've paid to go see them when I should have been paying off other debts :oops:
If I've been dating her for 18 years you bet I expect sex!