Since some people are just unwilling to accept compromise... for whatever reasons... there's always the Nuclear Option:
That is the Ten/VHC stop fighting the TicketMaster/LiveNation juggernaut and give in to their demands to sell ALL tickets in the open market.
This way, ALL fans of ALL ages will get the same shot as ALL people looking to get the best seats in the house. Seniority will no longer matter and those 'priviledged' AARP members will no longer be ruining everyone else's enjoyment of the gigs.
A side benefit of the collateral damage is no more complaining about Fan club pre-Sales and Ten Club Servers. TicketMaster has plenty of horsepower and you can always get in on the KROQ (or other local radio station) pre-sales.
...
Personally... I get dis-heartened with all of the petty fucking bickering that 'Fans' make of OTHER FANS. They get anger about seniority... or about how other people act at the gigs... and feel they they are not as good of fans as they are supposed to be. Is there a Pearl Jam Fan Guide book that outlines the standards we're suposed to adhere to? Because if there is... i ain't seen it.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Since some people are just unwilling to accept compromise... for whatever reasons... there's always the Nuclear Option:
That is the Ten/VHC stop fighting the TicketMaster/LiveNation juggernaut and give in to their demands to sell ALL tickets in the open market.
This way, ALL fans of ALL ages will get the same shot as ALL people looking to get the best seats in the house. Seniority will no longer matter and those 'priviledged' AARP members will no longer be ruining everyone else's enjoyment of the gigs.
A side benefit of the collateral damage is no more complaining about Fan club pre-Sales and Ten Club Servers. TicketMaster has plenty of horsepower and you can always get in on the KROQ (or other local radio station) pre-sales.
... Personally... I get dis-heartened with all of the petty fucking bickering that 'Fans' make of OTHER FANS. They get anger about seniority... or about how other people act at the gigs... and feel they they are not as good of fans as they are supposed to be. Is there a Pearl Jam Fan Guide book that outlines the standards we're suposed to adhere to? Because if there is... i ain't seen it.
*nods*
If there is one...I do not want to see it.
JA: Why do I get the Ticketmaster question?
EV: It's your band.
~Q Magazine
"Kisses for the glow...kisses for the lease." - BDRII
No animal. I´m going to see them at seattle for the first time. Explain to me what a crappy TC seat would be like.
40th row on the floor,...
...
I missed out on the 2000 Fan club seats and ended up in San Diego at the top of the side of the arena. They weren't even real seats... they were those cheap folding chairs that they put behind the last row.
I looked at the positives... those cheap chairs were easy to fold up and set aside so we could have move dancing room.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
No animal. I´m going to see them at seattle for the first time. Explain to me what a crappy TC seat would be like.
40th row on the floor,...
...
I missed out on the 2000 Fan club seats and ended up in San Diego at the top of the side of the arena. They weren't even real seats... they were those cheap folding chairs that they put behind the last row.
I looked at the positives... those cheap chairs were easy to fold up and set aside so we could have move dancing room.
That´s the thing. I think we should make the best of what we got. I´m just curious, does anyone know if TC give away lower level seats that are close to the sides of the stage?
"That Kid, and myself, NEVER would have got into that show with seniority..."
What are you talking about?? Everyone here had the same chance to get into the Vic whether your # was 59000 or 450000. Seniority has nothing to do w/ getting the tickets. Mine is 106xxx and I didn't get tix. And believe me I tried.
Maybe my post was confusing??? That is what I meant...everyone had an equal shot, therefore I got in. If it was seniority I would not have even been close, bc so many PJ TC members would have been above me...maybe I'm lost here...
That´s the thing. I think we should make the best of what we got. I´m just curious, does anyone know if TC give away lower level seats that are close to the sides of the stage?
Yeah.... I'm #184,XXX so I'm either 10 to 20 rows back on the floor, OR side stage really close, or as far as center ice.
My perfect seats are on the wings about eye level in the first section.
I've only had those once, in LA in 2006. One night I had those kick ass seats, and the other night I was like row 14 or something struggling to see over the 13 rows in front of me.
Hope to win the lottery one of these days and get in the front.
And the people who were unlucky enough to discover the band after 1991 should be fucked.
...
Hey... that's just the lottery of birth. Some people were born outside the time they think they should have belonged.
And look at the positives... it could have been worse... you could have been born a poor Jewish kid in the Warsaw ghetto back in 1936.
So now we're comparing the persecution of an entire race to not being able to see a band up close?
Thanks EPOTTSIII!
"Vinyl or not, you will need to pay someone to take RA of your hands" - Smile05
424, xxx
What about standing tickets? Surely they are better that any seats and give all fans an equal chance of getting to the front, make all standing tickets just 10C problem solved...or are things different in the US standing wise?
If you choose to sit rather than stand you take the chance of poor seats if you are a newer member.
What about standing tickets? Surely they are better that any seats and give all fans an equal chance of getting to the front, make all standing tickets just 10C problem solved...or are things different in the US standing wise?
If you choose to sit rather than stand you take the chance of poor seats if you are a newer member.
This has been discussed quite a bit.
I don't think that is very fair, cause there are many who are unwilling or unable to play that game.
From people with medical conditions, to short people, to those who don't have the will to fight and be pushed around all night.
That type of GA admission favors the strong and aggressive.
Why should someone who is weaker and passive be shut out of the front cause of their physical nature?
EDIT: And from what I've gathered things are different in the US. People for GA shows are not very respectful and it gets ugly up front, with everyone loaded in and uncomfortable. With more and more people pushing to get front row.
I've been in many of those situations and handle it fine, but just because I'm good doesn't make it right.
I am only 5ft but still prefer standing for the atmosphere...if you choose to sit you have to accept it is harder to get a good place if you are a newbie...just the way it is
What about standing tickets? Surely they are better that any seats and give all fans an equal chance of getting to the front, make all standing tickets just 10C problem solved...or are things different in the US standing wise?
If you choose to sit rather than stand you take the chance of poor seats if you are a newer member.
This has been discussed quite a bit.
I don't think that is very fair, cause there are many who are unwilling or unable to play that game.
From people with medical conditions, to short people, to those who don't have the will to fight and be pushed around all night.
That type of GA admission favors the strong and aggressive.
Why should someone who is weaker and passive be shut out of the front cause of their physical nature?
EDIT: And from what I've gathered things are different in the US. People for GA shows are not very respectful and it gets ugly up front, with everyone loaded in and uncomfortable. With more and more people pushing to get front row.
I've been in many of those situations and handle it fine, but just because I'm good doesn't make it right.
Agreed.
It is also bizzare watching people not caring about others when they are squeezing or pushing others. I saw this one skinny woman who was fainting and when I tried to point that out to two people who were squeezing her, they gave me the bird.
Okie dokie.... SECURITY!!!!
*boots them out*
But that lady ended up being taken out too... jeez. That's just one example.
Not to mention rude people who are only looking out for themselves.
It's really difficult but yeah for the strong and aggressive, it's pretty good....
JA: Why do I get the Ticketmaster question?
EV: It's your band.
~Q Magazine
"Kisses for the glow...kisses for the lease." - BDRII
So now we're comparing the persecution of an entire race to not being able to see a band up close?
...
No. We are talking about the randomness of birth. So what if you were born too late to join a Fan club in 1991? It really isn't that big of a deal. It is just how life works and complaining about people who WERE born in the right time period and did happen to join the club doesn't do anything except make you appear to be a whiney little baby with a strong sense of "Where's mine?".
I'm saying that you hit the fucking jackpot in the birth lottery because there are a lot of other lives that got the shit end of the birth lottery... like getting born in the Warsaw ghetto in 1936 to a poor Jewish family... or getting born in Somalia by an AIDs infected mother... or getting born to a poor single black female living in a housing project in Watts.
It's all on how you look at things... and having to sit a fews rows back at a concert is not that big of a fucking deal... when you expand your horizons an open up your scope a little.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
What about standing tickets? Surely they are better that any seats and give all fans an equal chance of getting to the front, make all standing tickets just 10C problem solved...or are things different in the US standing wise?
If you choose to sit rather than stand you take the chance of poor seats if you are a newer member.
This has been discussed quite a bit.
I don't think that is very fair, cause there are many who are unwilling or unable to play that game.
From people with medical conditions, to short people, to those who don't have the will to fight and be pushed around all night.
That type of GA admission favors the strong and aggressive.
Why should someone who is weaker and passive be shut out of the front cause of their physical nature?
EDIT: And from what I've gathered things are different in the US. People for GA shows are not very respectful and it gets ugly up front, with everyone loaded in and uncomfortable. With more and more people pushing to get front row.
I've been in many of those situations and handle it fine, but just because I'm good doesn't make it right.
Your edit part is the main reason why pj will never do GA at arena shows here in america. I think pj are doing a cool thing by playing more theater and club shows here. They take away from the moshing and crowd surfing but still have that ga feel and give fans that closeness to the band.
Ron: I just don't feel like going out tonight
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
but, you're right, everyone should have a shot to get real close. i like the system the way it is now. if you've been a member since 92, you don't deserve to sit anywhere outside the first 5 rows, but you aren't entitled to be front and center every time.
but i too hate seeing old people in the front. zero energy. as a performer, i want the people up close to be moving and dancing when i'm singing...not standing there like some geriatric cripples. i want to feel your energy.
Paid their dues? They pay a fee once a year. That is not paying your dues. I do think that it should be a one or two show limit. Not the same loonies taking up all the front row seats.
Agreed, I'm an older guy with a family now (46 years old now). I have seen about 26 shows over 18 years in 4 countries. I was there for one of their first shows (Woodsmen's Hall, Eugene, OR 1991). Been a fan since. Have gotten lucky getting tickets over the years, however, since I have only recently joined the 10C (sad, I know), I have found it difficult to score tickets to the upcoming shows -- again all this based on seniority. Lottery or some other way is neccessary. But what would this be??
"Because gold is honest money, it is disliked by dishonest men" - Ron Paul
Agreed, I'm an older guy with a family now (46 years old now). I have seen about 26 shows over 18 years in 4 countries. I was there for one of their first shows (Woodsmen's Hall, Eugene, OR 1991). Been a fan since. Have gotten lucky getting tickets over the years, however, since I have only recently joined the 10C (sad, I know), I have found it difficult to score tickets to the upcoming shows -- again all this based on seniority. Lottery or some other way is neccessary. But what would this be??
seniority has nothing to do with purchasing tickets...seniority is only used for seating at shows
I'm happy with the lottery being for rows 1, 2, 9 &10. That mixes things up and gives everyone a fair shot at moving up. I'll never sit near the stage at a Pearl Jam concert but I don't care. I'm just happy to have tickets and be in the building. I'll have a good time no matter where I am sitting.
Agreed, I'm an older guy with a family now (46 years old now). I have seen about 26 shows over 18 years in 4 countries. I was there for one of their first shows (Woodsmen's Hall, Eugene, OR 1991). Been a fan since. Have gotten lucky getting tickets over the years, however, since I have only recently joined the 10C (sad, I know), I have found it difficult to score tickets to the upcoming shows -- again all this based on seniority. Lottery or some other way is neccessary. But what would this be??
How about rows 1, 2, 9, and 10 are lottery and all other seats go by seniority.
Agreed, I'm an older guy with a family now (46 years old now). I have seen about 26 shows over 18 years in 4 countries. I was there for one of their first shows (Woodsmen's Hall, Eugene, OR 1991). Been a fan since. Have gotten lucky getting tickets over the years, however, since I have only recently joined the 10C (sad, I know), I have found it difficult to score tickets to the upcoming shows -- again all this based on seniority. Lottery or some other way is neccessary. But what would this be??
...
Even so... you were still able to see them 26 times (i don't know how many without the assistance of the Fan Club), but you still got tickets, right? And people can STILL get tickets without being in the Fan Club.
What the Fan Club provides is an alternative to the traditional (TicketMonster) method of attaining tickets. It is a GREAT service that the Fan Club is not obligated to provide. Yet, look at the amount of grief they get... for providing a service they really don't need to provide.
Yeah... i know, people would drop out of the club if the ticket deal was gone and revenues would drop... i know that. But, what does that tell you about the fans that would do that? I mean, i would still pay... just because i love the band. I admit to originally joining the Club just so i could get tickets without the hassles of ChargeLine or TicketMaster outlets at the MusicPlus. But, if they were to drop the ticket thing today... I'd still pay. I like getting the singles and the newsletters and think they are worth the price.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Paid their dues? They pay a fee once a year. That is not paying your dues. I do think that it should be a one or two show limit. Not the same loonies taking up all the front row seats.
You're absolutely right! All they did was pay dues for years and kept the fanclub in operation. Without those paying dues there would not be a Ten Club, hence no fan club tickets. So let's erase the history of those dues and enjoy fighting the scalpers for all the tickets.
dont you think people buying tix on ticketbastard could have the same argument? why shouldnt they have a chance at the front row either? tix are all the same price anywhere in the building. whether you favor seniority or full lottery you are still arguing entitlement.
i think the current system works the best, i have a decent # 138xxx and have paid my dues (waiting hours during the block distribution era on day of the show) im usually row 8-13 these days which is fine with me. your argument is going to be based on your situation (#) on how you feel the policy should be. low #s want seniority , high #s want random. no one really cares who Ed looks at each night or about the poor guy who has a 400xxx #. its just a selfish argument.
"...why do I see the same faces right here every show...shouldn't you guys be out getting laid?"
Hence, reason enough to have a lottery at all shows. The band gets bored seeing the same faces in front at every show.
He really said that? Vedder has a very dark type of humor, huh? It´s funny, but I bet some might have felt bad. Like in that showbox dvd, when he asked if a fan from chile was there. Afterwards he mentioned his dog shitting on the neighbors lawn, and then said he could give the piece of dog crap to the chilean dude as a souveneir. My first reaction was: what an asshole!
Your attitude is indicative of an entire narcissistic generation of people who were raised with the false reinforcement that you were special no matter what you did, and there are no winners or losers. Which of course was all a lie and in no way prepared anyone for the real world. The real world where you have to pay your dues and work your way to the top. You are not just simply entitled to it just because your mommy told you that you were special. I see it in the workplace a lot too. Kids come in and are flabbergasted when they do not get hired right out of the box to the director level positions.
Like it or not, but life is one big seniority list. The longer you have been around, the better seats you will get.
Pitt 98, Pitt 00, Cleveland 03, Pitt 03, State College 03, Toledo 04, Toronto 05, Pitt 05, Cleveland 06, Pitt 06 & Chicago 07, Chicago 1&2 09, Philly 2,3,4 09, Cleveland 10, Columbus 10, Alpine Valley 1& 2 11
After watching a number of bootlegs of shows in which seating was based upon seniority in the 10Club, I have come to the conclusion that all shows should be lottery based. I have seen too many songs where the front row just stands there. Must be a huge buzzkill. Look at me. I've been a fan since 94. This song sucks. Let me stand here. Fuck you. Give everybody a chance to be there. Let me sell it on Craigslist. If you're a real fan, you don't need to be right there. You just need to be there. If you get to be in the front that rocks.
Pearl Jam is about the energy they create. Giving those people who might never dream of being in front creates even more energy than those who are so used to being there. A lottery would mix it up. Instead of saying, "Hey man I've sat next to you at the past 10 concerts because of our number." It would be, "Hey, how did you get into Pearl Jam?" Call it the rantings of someone who would never get close to the front. Call it the ramblings of someone who doesn't care when you became a fan of Pearl Jam, just that you're a fan.
The lottery of the first two rows and the 8th and 9th doesn't cut it. Maybe if some people know they won't be sitting in the first five rows, they might open up some more tickets to those who just want to be there. To feel the energy. Not to be with those who take a piss when they hear a song they've already heard. To be with those who want to see the band. Who want to make their own connection with them and their fans.
I'll be sitting in the back, because that's where you feel the rush of the crowd. Not standing idly by at the barricade when they play songs that have meant so much to so many people.
Thanks for giving me a lesson on how to enjoy the band since you have been in the fan club since 2008 according to your profile. Good job but I've been in this thing for 11 years and I've paid my dues every year I deserve to sit closer than you. And people just don't stand there that are on the first row either, no one just stands there in the fan club. I have no idea what show you went to that was like that but I've seen them for years and never seen anyone just standing there watching the band.
Comments
That is the Ten/VHC stop fighting the TicketMaster/LiveNation juggernaut and give in to their demands to sell ALL tickets in the open market.
This way, ALL fans of ALL ages will get the same shot as ALL people looking to get the best seats in the house. Seniority will no longer matter and those 'priviledged' AARP members will no longer be ruining everyone else's enjoyment of the gigs.
A side benefit of the collateral damage is no more complaining about Fan club pre-Sales and Ten Club Servers. TicketMaster has plenty of horsepower and you can always get in on the KROQ (or other local radio station) pre-sales.
...
Personally... I get dis-heartened with all of the petty fucking bickering that 'Fans' make of OTHER FANS. They get anger about seniority... or about how other people act at the gigs... and feel they they are not as good of fans as they are supposed to be. Is there a Pearl Jam Fan Guide book that outlines the standards we're suposed to adhere to? Because if there is... i ain't seen it.
Hail, Hail!!!
*nods*
If there is one...I do not want to see it.
EV: It's your band.
~Q Magazine
"Kisses for the glow...kisses for the lease." - BDRII
I missed out on the 2000 Fan club seats and ended up in San Diego at the top of the side of the arena. They weren't even real seats... they were those cheap folding chairs that they put behind the last row.
I looked at the positives... those cheap chairs were easy to fold up and set aside so we could have move dancing room.
Hail, Hail!!!
That´s the thing. I think we should make the best of what we got. I´m just curious, does anyone know if TC give away lower level seats that are close to the sides of the stage?
Maybe my post was confusing??? That is what I meant...everyone had an equal shot, therefore I got in. If it was seniority I would not have even been close, bc so many PJ TC members would have been above me...maybe I'm lost here...
Yeah.... I'm #184,XXX so I'm either 10 to 20 rows back on the floor, OR side stage really close, or as far as center ice.
My perfect seats are on the wings about eye level in the first section.
I've only had those once, in LA in 2006. One night I had those kick ass seats, and the other night I was like row 14 or something struggling to see over the 13 rows in front of me.
Hope to win the lottery one of these days and get in the front.
"Vinyl or not, you will need to pay someone to take RA of your hands" - Smile05
424, xxx
If you choose to sit rather than stand you take the chance of poor seats if you are a newer member.
This has been discussed quite a bit.
I don't think that is very fair, cause there are many who are unwilling or unable to play that game.
From people with medical conditions, to short people, to those who don't have the will to fight and be pushed around all night.
That type of GA admission favors the strong and aggressive.
Why should someone who is weaker and passive be shut out of the front cause of their physical nature?
EDIT: And from what I've gathered things are different in the US. People for GA shows are not very respectful and it gets ugly up front, with everyone loaded in and uncomfortable. With more and more people pushing to get front row.
I've been in many of those situations and handle it fine, but just because I'm good doesn't make it right.
I have had seats for a few PJ shows but given the choice would stand...
Agreed.
It is also bizzare watching people not caring about others when they are squeezing or pushing others. I saw this one skinny woman who was fainting and when I tried to point that out to two people who were squeezing her, they gave me the bird.
Okie dokie.... SECURITY!!!!
*boots them out*
But that lady ended up being taken out too... jeez. That's just one example.
Not to mention rude people who are only looking out for themselves.
It's really difficult but yeah for the strong and aggressive, it's pretty good....
EV: It's your band.
~Q Magazine
"Kisses for the glow...kisses for the lease." - BDRII
No. We are talking about the randomness of birth. So what if you were born too late to join a Fan club in 1991? It really isn't that big of a deal. It is just how life works and complaining about people who WERE born in the right time period and did happen to join the club doesn't do anything except make you appear to be a whiney little baby with a strong sense of "Where's mine?".
I'm saying that you hit the fucking jackpot in the birth lottery because there are a lot of other lives that got the shit end of the birth lottery... like getting born in the Warsaw ghetto in 1936 to a poor Jewish family... or getting born in Somalia by an AIDs infected mother... or getting born to a poor single black female living in a housing project in Watts.
It's all on how you look at things... and having to sit a fews rows back at a concert is not that big of a fucking deal... when you expand your horizons an open up your scope a little.
Hail, Hail!!!
Your edit part is the main reason why pj will never do GA at arena shows here in america. I think pj are doing a cool thing by playing more theater and club shows here. They take away from the moshing and crowd surfing but still have that ga feel and give fans that closeness to the band.
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
seniority has nothing to do with purchasing tickets...seniority is only used for seating at shows
How about rows 1, 2, 9, and 10 are lottery and all other seats go by seniority.
Sounds good to me.
Even so... you were still able to see them 26 times (i don't know how many without the assistance of the Fan Club), but you still got tickets, right? And people can STILL get tickets without being in the Fan Club.
What the Fan Club provides is an alternative to the traditional (TicketMonster) method of attaining tickets. It is a GREAT service that the Fan Club is not obligated to provide. Yet, look at the amount of grief they get... for providing a service they really don't need to provide.
Yeah... i know, people would drop out of the club if the ticket deal was gone and revenues would drop... i know that. But, what does that tell you about the fans that would do that? I mean, i would still pay... just because i love the band. I admit to originally joining the Club just so i could get tickets without the hassles of ChargeLine or TicketMaster outlets at the MusicPlus. But, if they were to drop the ticket thing today... I'd still pay. I like getting the singles and the newsletters and think they are worth the price.
Hail, Hail!!!
You're absolutely right! All they did was pay dues for years and kept the fanclub in operation. Without those paying dues there would not be a Ten Club, hence no fan club tickets. So let's erase the history of those dues and enjoy fighting the scalpers for all the tickets.
"...why do I see the same faces right here every show...shouldn't you guys be out getting laid?"
Hence, reason enough to have a lottery at all shows. The band gets bored seeing the same faces in front at every show.
If they went the 1st 15 rows, +, then I think people would have reason to get upset.
i think the current system works the best, i have a decent # 138xxx and have paid my dues (waiting hours during the block distribution era on day of the show) im usually row 8-13 these days which is fine with me. your argument is going to be based on your situation (#) on how you feel the policy should be. low #s want seniority , high #s want random. no one really cares who Ed looks at each night or about the poor guy who has a 400xxx #. its just a selfish argument.
He really said that? Vedder has a very dark type of humor, huh? It´s funny, but I bet some might have felt bad. Like in that showbox dvd, when he asked if a fan from chile was there. Afterwards he mentioned his dog shitting on the neighbors lawn, and then said he could give the piece of dog crap to the chilean dude as a souveneir. My first reaction was: what an asshole!
Thanks for giving me a lesson on how to enjoy the band since you have been in the fan club since 2008 according to your profile. Good job but I've been in this thing for 11 years and I've paid my dues every year I deserve to sit closer than you. And people just don't stand there that are on the first row either, no one just stands there in the fan club. I have no idea what show you went to that was like that but I've seen them for years and never seen anyone just standing there watching the band.