yeah you may be sick of all the same old bullshit but ignorance is not going away so get used to it. I work with this guy who is always right, can beat up anyone cause he is the stongest guy in the world, will tell you his opinions on the war, politics, etc.... But he never reads the paper, never watches the news, etc....... SIMPLY, he is just ignorant. What can you do about people like this? Just learn to live with them? He hates everyone and he just seems like he is mad at the world. Why is he mad at the world when it is people like him who make the world a pain in the ass sometimes.
If you dont mind, I am going to copy and paste part of that...
Chapter 3 of The End of the American Century, titled "Torn Social Fabric," focuses especially on the relatively poor levels of health care in the U.S., and how badly it fares in comparison to other wealthy countries. As I point out there, this is surprising in many ways "because the United States indeed does have available the best medical care in the world and spends more on health care than any other country." But "because there are so many poor people in the United States and so many people without access to health care, the average level of health and medical care in the United States is among the worst in the developed world" (bold added). In the late 1990s, the World Health Organization ranked the U.S. at 37th in the world in the overall performance of the health system. This was the lowest ranking of any country in the OECD.
New data reported in the New York Times confirms these disturbing trends. The United States now ranks 29th in the world on infant mortality rates which, as the Times points out, is "one of the most important indicators of the health of a nation and the quality of its medical system." The U.S. ranking has declined sharply since 1960, when its ranking was 12th in the world.
This international gap has widened even though the U.S. spends far more on health care than most other wealthy countries, on both a per capita basis and as a percentage of GDP. In 2006, according to the Times, "Americans spent $6714 per capita on health--more than twice the average of other industrialized countries."
Grace Marie Turner, president of the Galen Institute, a conservative research organization, told the Times "infant mortality and our comparison with the rest of the world continue to be an embarrassment to the United States."
The dismal state of health care in the U.S. reflects broader trends of social and economic decline in the U.S.--compared both to our own past and to other countries in the world. It is the major theme of The End of the American Century: that the U.S. has lost ground as other countries have gained; and that we can no longer claim special privilege as the richest, or the most successful, or the most powerful--on almost any dimension.
The poor state of health care, and education, and infrastructure in the U.S. result from inadequate attention and resources to these areas of our domestic health. They pose the second horn of the U.S. dilemma: our economy is collapsing at the very time when we most need resources to rebuild the country at home, and reestablish our reputation abroad.
I know many will not like what I'm going to say here
We are in this trouble due to Greed. On the part of both our health care professionals hospitals and insurance companies.
The insurance companies top line is profit. Our family has conservatively paid in premiums of approx 9,000 per year for more than 10 years only to find that a bill is not paid because the healthcare provider is "coded" wrong or has "coded" a procedure wrong.You are stuck in the middle between Doc and Insurance Co just wanting for the to bill paid swearing its cause the insurance company wants to weasel out of paying all it can- again profit.
Greed on the part of Doctors which I realize is a noble profession but...
we live on a well to do lake(across the street we're not that well to do) 3million+ homes- million dollar older homes from the 70's torn down to build grossly huge homes on the lakeside lot. Most of these homes bought by doctors.We even had trouble with homeowners wanting helicopters and pads- someone is making way to much money while our country crumbles.
The services provided by both doctor and hospital are inflated when covered by the insurance company or our government thru medicare and medicaid. When an individual who is uninsured rents a wheelchair, sees the doctor at the office or goes to the ER they are charged considerably less than the insurance carrier or our Gov. We the people who are suffering due to high taxation and insurance premiums to cover these inflated charges.
Free enterprise based in greed and its hurting our country.
Let me rant for a second......socialized healthcare....are you kidding....is this Russia? We are embarking on dangerous ground with Mr. Obama. I have never understood penalizing people for being educated and successful....I guees democrats can explain that better than I. He was so cool, and hip, and my God...BLACK....nevermind how underqualified this clown is, or that his own administration is now going.......uhhhhhhhhhh,,,,it is easy to be a democrat when you have more money than you know what to do with....ask Sean Penn....ask Tim Robbins...and by God question Pearl Jam once in awhile.
Sure beats when they supported Ralph Nadar. I mean, I like Nadar and all.....but he totally cost Gore the election despite having no realistic chance of winning.
i think rampant voter fraud cost Gore the election.
I am not going to disagree with that, however i have never seen voter fraud like what happened in Minnesota with Al Franken. It seems that Minnesota does the goofiest things. A wrestler as governor, now a comedian as senator.
IF YOU MAKE OVER A MILLION YOU SHOULD PAY FOR THE HEALTH CARE OF THOSE WHO DONT WORK? FUCK THAT. GET A JOB. LEARN A SKILL. IF YOU CAN'T WELL...FUCKING SORRY
Ignorant Americans.
I live in Sweden and I don't see the problem with taxes or socialized healthcare. The ones who have alot should chip in more then those who have less, like in a fmaily or whatever (ofc this doesn't work perfect, but it's a better thought than "everytone just caring for them self/survival of the fittest"
Just my opinion. I think USA is a funny country. So fucked by your own communist craze that when anyone has an opinion that is not super right winged you scream and get scared. Wish there would be a stronger solcialistic movement in your country so there would atleast be an option of ideas. Instead of "right winged" and "super right winged".
But, A country that mentions a specific/christian God (or any God) in it's constitution and give people the right to own 45.000 guns because it's "every mans right and is written in the constitution" is fucked to begin with.
But, I don't care about politics or nations really. Anytime someone holds up a flag (as in a country's flag) at a pearl jam concert I want to strangle them.
Sorry Swedish Chef, but you FAIL. The U.S. is actually the only country that has a true, Establishment clause in its Constitution - which says " "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion." Yep, we're the ONLY country that has that, motherfuckers. Too bad most God-fearing Americans are so fucking ignorant that they have no idea about the Constitution or anything it says. If you went and asked most Americans on the street, "what is our national religion?" Most would say - Christianity. Fucking rednecks!
As to the first poster, whatever. Lots of successful, industrialized countries have "socialized healthcare." Not only that, but the plan is only to offer "socialized" healthcare to the 40 million or so Americans that don't already have it. If you have a job and already healthcare - no big deal. Get your facts right. Plus, it was our last President, if you recall, that bankrupted our country (in addition to starting 2 wars and allowing the first American city to be devestated since Pearl Harbor) - not this one. Moreover, you're just another stuck-up, privileged Penn kid whose daddy works at Comcast. I went to law school at Temple, so I know all about Philly and looking over your shoulder when you leave the library at 2am. But wait, B-School is a joke anyway... Just because you obviously don't know where the hot spots are in the city, doesn't mean Philly sucks - it means you suck (and probably aren't getting enough pussy! NUKED.
Obama=socialist????
Hahahaha!!!!! Do you even know what socialism means???? Go read some books and get yourself a bit more educated before coming with stupid comments like that. If Obama's a socialist, I'm the guy that will bring Pearl Jam to a private concert for my friends in my backyard!
I just don't have any respect for guys like you that bring a dumb comment like that. I guess you should go work for Fox News; they're always looking idiots like you to be on TV!
You're not what you own - Ian MacKaye, Fugazi
98 - Montreal 00 - Montreal 03 - Toronto, Montreal 04 - Boston (Show #1) 05 - Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 06 - Toronto (Show #1) 09 - Toronto, Philly (Show #3-4) 10 - Cleveland 11 - Montreal, Toronto (x2), Ottawa 13 - London (ON), Philly (x2) 16 - QC - Ottawa
Let me rant for a second......socialized healthcare....are you kidding....is this Russia? We are embarking on dangerous ground with Mr. Obama. I have never understood penalizing people for being educated and successful....I guees democrats can explain that better than I. He was so cool, and hip, and my God...BLACK....nevermind how underqualified this clown is, or that his own administration is now going.......uhhhhhhhhhh,,,,it is easy to be a democrat when you have more money than you know what to do with....ask Sean Penn....ask Tim Robbins...and by God question Pearl Jam once in awhile.
Russia??? you are aware that we are the ONLY industrialized nation that doesn't have universal health care, right?
Obama is far from a socialist.
don't compete; coexist
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
We are embarking on dangerous ground with Mr. Obama? It seemed pretty dangerous to me when that clown of a president Bush was in office. I don't really know too too much about politics and I am not here to sound like i do. What I do think i have though is quite a few life experiences and have met many people throughout my journeys. Let me just say this. I believe that when you hear the same thing over and over again from many different people there has to be some truth to it. What I have heard many times from many different people is that republicans are narrow minded thinkers. I believe that somewhat pretty much b/c I have literally heard it over and over again from many different people. For example. My one friend who hasn't always been a huge PJ fan but I helped him see the light always said things to me like, I hope PJ's next album or single isn't political, or I hope Eddie doesn't talk about politics tonight at the show. I am always like, dude, where have you been, Eddie has always been like this, maybe not always as vocal, but he has been political. Writing Pro-Choice on your arm during a performance isn't political? That was years ago!!! My point is I know his father and his father is old school, straight laced, overall a nice man. BUT! He is republican and I have heard it with my own two ears telling his son, my friend, what are you doing listening to that hippy crap. That band doesn't support the war and our troops. To me, just narrow minded thinking, and I think its human nature to agree with your father, whether right or wrong cause he is your father. So my friend hears this and is like yeah, my dad is right. Why can't they just sing about girls, and hot rods, and getting laid. Why do they have to sing and talk about things that are actually going to make me think? I think a lot of people out there follow what their parents believe and I have found it to be many many mostly republicans when I witness this. I went to school in the south and don't even get me started on the south. Again, some of the things you hear time and time again about people living in the south are true. I had a roomate, very nice guy, we got along fine but were very different when it came to politics. I think the bottom line between us is that over the years I have formed my own opinions and he has gone off of what his FATHER believes. I remember reading I think is was either Howard Zinn or Ralph Nadar call it something like __________ thinking or something! Does anyone remember? But he even told me like my father is republican and that is why I am. Like god forbid you think differently than your father. That is why the south is a lot of republicans b/c many many people vote a certain way b/c their father does and his father does and aunt tilly used too and her uncle did. Its true but I also understand it can go both ways. Another friend of mine, and I still refer to him as my friend b/c no matter what, we will always be friends, is very very republican. His father is also, and they are catholic. I am just gonna go out on a limb here and say that most of my friends childhood was probably filled with republican talk and religous speeches. In this household they most likely went hand and hand. I always thought this was supposed to be kept sperate but over the years to me it does not seem like the case. He is totally against abortion and to me it seems like he is only against it b/c 1. Thats the republican way. 2. That is the catholic way 3. His father told him it was wrong. My point is, in speaking with him it never seems like he has ever put any more thought into it b/c he doesn't have to. His faith has already told him its wrong, his political view has told him its wrong, and his father, whom he dare not think differently than thinks this way. I know this is long but do you see where I am going with this people? Too me, with these examples, it seems like pretty narrow minded thinking or lack there of. My cousin told me that somone, may have been Bill O Reilly, on earth day or something, when others out there were planting trees he did a segment on his show where he was cutting trees down. Can someone confirm this for me? If this is true that is just bs, and if anyone out there follows this guy you should be ashamed of yourself. He is probably only republican cause his daddy and entire family tree wouldn't have it any other way. I remember reading a while back that Eddie was very close with one of the Ramone brothers and that he ( the ramone brother ) was very republican and that he would test eddie and ask him political questions just to teach him and to help one another learn about other points of view. To me that is awesome and that is exactly what we as people are not doing. People are not open to new ideas and only stick to what they were raised on, not everyone, but it happens a lot. Sepatation of church and state is bs b/c people tie the two together every single day. What do you people think?
as a former republican I agree with a lot of what you say....I look back and consider myself (at that time) as being very closed minded...very naive...uninformed...too brainwashed of the "government is bad" and "democrats are weak" drivel that the GOP constantly spews
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
If you own property, have a job, and buy stuff, you've already been giving 50% of your earnings back to the government, and they show absoultey no restraint or responsibile use of your money.
I do have a problem with this.
I believe that charity would be better handled in the private sector, and if more money was available to the private sector, there would be far more donations to companies that handled their causes better than others. Those companies who used their funding fraudulently would eventually be exposed, and held accountable under current legislation against fraud-- unlike our government, which is accountable to no one.
Police and fire are best handled at local government levels, and that's why they work out alright. When the federal government gets invovled, things get messy.
I think I would prefer roadwork to be done by the private sector through sealed, competitive bidding among private companies. It works fine in the construction industry of public works, why wouldn't it work on bridges and roads?
New data reported in the New York Times confirms these disturbing trends. The United States now ranks 29th in the world on infant mortality rates which, as the Times points out, is "one of the most important indicators of the health of a nation and the quality of its medical system." The U.S. ranking has declined sharply since 1960, when its ranking was 12th in the world.
Here's a good quote for jlew....he was questioning the legitimacy of the WHO ranking the USA #37...this is a little more current
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
15 (now 16) fucking pages and Three Legged Dog, Sawyer, or anyone else has yet to hold an actual factual debate as to why they think the President is a socialist or why UHC is so terrible. They resort to personal attacks and gross generalizations. They are talking point debaters and have nothing beyond that. However, there were low blows against these guys too.
So, here's your chance. You air your grievence with facts and I'll give you a listen and will debate the issue with you. If you don't....well, you're just a partisan hack and that isn't worth debating with.
15 (now 16) fucking pages and Three Legged Dog, Sawyer, or anyone else has yet to hold an actual factual debate as to why they think the President is a socialist or why UHC is so terrible. They resort to personal attacks and gross generalizations. They are talking point debaters and have nothing beyond that. However, there were low blows against these guys too.
So, here's your chance. You air your grievence with facts and I'll give you a listen and will debate the issue with you. If you don't....well, you're just a partisan hack and that isn't worth debating with.
I agree when you posters or thread starters who post generalizations and fail to give a factual base to their arguments. Mainly wanting to post their partisan side of the post.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Why did you vote for him in the first place? He's doing just as he said he would when he ran for president. I think he's doing a great job and doing more in a few months than Bush II did in all eight years. I'm pretty happy with what I have. I listened when Obama talked and said, "I bet he might actually be serious!"
I am not an Obamaniac, never was, never will be. The walking on water stuff some people were indulging in was enough to make me sick. He's a good guy, and Americans are scared by the word "socialism." Which we have in buckets around us every day of our lives and which we are happy to benefit from so long as we think of it as "our right," rather than socialism. America's strength is its blend of socialism and quasi-free market economy. Ever been to a public school? Ever been to a library? Ever been served by the fire department? Ever collected on social security? Ever benefited from Medicaid or Medicare? Ever collected a check from the Armed Services? Ever utilized the VA? Ever had the cops protect you? Ever had your roads paved? Get mail much? I don't mean to scare you, but, yeah. The "S" word does come in when you talk about these things and any number of other things that happen for you and for your benefit.
Personally, I think it's horrifying that Obama wants every American to be able to have access to health care. And even more horrifying to think that he wants to require everyone to Join Up and pay something for it up front so that you and I don't end up paying a lot more for it in clean up costs for health care costs that escalate when people just show up next to dead in ERs because of...no health care. Pay now, it's cheaper. In our state, as in many states, we have mandatory car insurance. Pay up or else. I initially hated the idea, because you know I'm a safe driver. I won't have an accident. I just won't. Why should I pay? Well, how about because I actually have a little something that someone else could sue me for and take my little something? Now, I have to admit it's nice to know that when I'm hit by another driver, that the other driver is not so likely to be a deadbeat who I cannot get a penny out of to fix the damage to my car or to me that he cost me. Is the insurance under $10 a year? No. But, when I driver ran into my husband's truck, it was nice to have the expense of restoring the vehicle covered. If I should ever be badly injured, it's nice to know that my insurance will pay a sizeable sum to get me up and at 'em again.
I'm sick and tired of these people who are so healthy (and maybe they are this instant) that they do not want to be forced to pay for health insurance. But, I am damn sick of paying for these very same people when they show up at the ER needing heart surgery or cancer treatments and they haven't got a penny to pay for any of it. Everyone gets old and almost everyone gets sick, eventually. Pay up, deadbeats! Our current health care system is broken under the weight of people just like you. Trust me, the bitching and moaning about "socialist health care" will subside when people start to see that it is good for the country, just like the socialist military, postal service, etc.
Why did you vote for him in the first place? He's doing just as he said he would when he ran for president. I think he's doing a great job and doing more in a few months than Bush II did in all eight years. I'm pretty happy with what I have. I listened when Obama talked and said, "I bet he might actually be serious!"
I am not an Obamaniac, never was, never will be. The walking on water stuff some people were indulging in was enough to make me sick. He's a good guy, and Americans are scared by the word "socialism." Which we have in buckets around us every day of our lives and which we are happy to benefit from so long as we think of it as "our right," rather than socialism. America's strength is its blend of socialism and quasi-free market economy. Ever been to a public school? Ever been to a library? Ever been served by the fire department? Ever collected on social security? Ever benefited from Medicaid or Medicare? Ever collected a check from the Armed Services? Ever utilized the VA? Ever had the cops protect you? Ever had your roads paved? Get mail much? I don't mean to scare you, but, yeah. The "S" word does come in when you talk about these things and any number of other things that happen for you and for your benefit.
Personally, I think it's horrifying that Obama wants every American to be able to have access to health care. And even more horrifying to think that he wants to require everyone to Join Up and pay something for it up front so that you and I don't end up paying a lot more for it in clean up costs for health care costs that escalate when people just show up next to dead in ERs because of...no health care. Pay now, it's cheaper. In our state, as in many states, we have mandatory car insurance. Pay up or else. I initially hated the idea, because you know I'm a safe driver. I won't have an accident. I just won't. Why should I pay? Well, how about because I actually have a little something that someone else could sue me for and take my little something? Now, I have to admit it's nice to know that when I'm hit by another driver, that the other driver is not so likely to be a deadbeat who I cannot get a penny out of to fix the damage to my car or to me that he cost me. Is the insurance under $10 a year? No. But, when I driver ran into my husband's truck, it was nice to have the expense of restoring the vehicle covered. If I should ever be badly injured, it's nice to know that my insurance will pay a sizeable sum to get me up and at 'em again.
I'm sick and tired of these people who are so healthy (and maybe they are this instant) that they do not want to be forced to pay for health insurance. But, I am damn sick of paying for these very same people when they show up at the ER needing heart surgery or cancer treatments and they haven't got a penny to pay for any of it. Everyone gets old and almost everyone gets sick, eventually. Pay up, deadbeats! Our current health care system is broken under the weight of people just like you. Trust me, the bitching and moaning about "socialist health care" will subside when people start to see that it is good for the country, just like the socialist military, postal service, etc.
How is social healthcare a good thing? The health care system in canada and europe are a joke. Imagine showing up at the emergency room and being forced to wait 4 hours to see a doctor. Reality folks. So many people that go on and on about socialized this socialized that truly have no idea of how much that would screw this country up. Heres another thing, with socialized medicine, there is no profit to be made by pharmaceutical companies for developing newer and better medicines and treatments. Right now the rest of the world depends on our health system to be cutting edge. And in regards to the original topic at hand. Liberalism in its essence is a good idea, no one can argue with that. Its great to want to have everyone stand on equal footing. The facts are though that that is impossible. History has shown us that.
PJ: Hartford 6/27/08 Mansfield 6/30/08 Philly 3 Oct. 30 2009
Philly 4 Oct. 31 2009 Hartford May 2010 Boston May 2010 MSG 1 May 2010
EV: Albany 1 and 2 June 2009 Providence June 15 2011 Hartford June 18 2011
15 (now 16) fucking pages and Three Legged Dog, Sawyer, or anyone else has yet to hold an actual factual debate as to why they think the President is a socialist or why UHC is so terrible. They resort to personal attacks and gross generalizations. They are talking point debaters and have nothing beyond that. However, there were low blows against these guys too.
So, here's your chance. You air your grievence with facts and I'll give you a listen and will debate the issue with you. If you don't....well, you're just a partisan hack and that isn't worth debating with.
I agree when you posters or thread starters who post generalizations and fail to give a factual base to their arguments. Mainly wanting to post their partisan side of the post.
How is social healthcare a good thing? The health care system in canada and europe are a joke. Imagine showing up at the emergency room and being forced to wait 4 hours to see a doctor. Reality folks. So many people that go on and on about socialized this socialized that truly have no idea of how much that would screw this country up. Heres another thing, with socialized medicine, there is no profit to be made by pharmaceutical companies for developing newer and better medicines and treatments. Right now the rest of the world depends on our health system to be cutting edge. And in regards to the original topic at hand. Liberalism in its essence is a good idea, no one can argue with that. Its great to want to have everyone stand on equal footing. The facts are though that that is impossible. History has shown us that.
15 (now 16) fucking pages and Three Legged Dog, Sawyer, or anyone else has yet to hold an actual factual debate as to why they think the President is a socialist or why UHC is so terrible. They resort to personal attacks and gross generalizations. They are talking point debaters and have nothing beyond that. However, there were low blows against these guys too.
So, here's your chance. You air your grievence with facts and I'll give you a listen and will debate the issue with you. If you don't....well, you're just a partisan hack and that isn't worth debating with.
I'm not sure those 2 brainiacs are able to figure out that their thread has been moved from the porch to the moving train.
How is social healthcare a good thing? The health care system in canada and europe are a joke. Imagine showing up at the emergency room and being forced to wait 4 hours to see a doctor. Reality folks. So many people that go on and on about socialized this socialized that truly have no idea of how much that would screw this country up.
Speaking from experience, I have never waited 4 hours in the ER. And who says you have to go to the ER for a doctor's visit anyway? You have a doctor for regular stuff with which you make appointments, and if it's a bloody emergency, then you'll get treated at the ER by priority as it should be. But if you turn up a saturday night with a cold, then yeah, you might be sitting there for a while.
Heres another thing, with socialized medicine, there is no profit to be made by pharmaceutical companies for developing newer and better medicines and treatments. Right now the rest of the world depends on our health system to be cutting edge.
Strange how many large companies in the business are French and German too. No profit? Get real. We pay for our meds like anyone else, only ours are less overpriced overall. There isn't as much profit, but why ishould max profit be the motive here anyway? Rest assured, they make a living, and if they develop new meds, they'll sell them and make a profit like everywhere else.
And in regards to the original topic at hand. Liberalism in its essence is a good idea, no one can argue with that. Its great to want to have everyone stand on equal footing. The facts are though that that is impossible. History has shown us that.
Liberalism is the heart of any western world political and societal structure at this point. It would depend on what you mean by it though, as it's a very fuzzy word. Liberalism is marked by the inalienable individual rights, habeas coprpus and all that. The western world is made up of "liberal democracies". It's not a loose theory, it's the reigning paradigm of the world.
Couldn't resist.
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
How is social healthcare a good thing? The health care system in canada and europe are a joke. Imagine showing up at the emergency room and being forced to wait 4 hours to see a doctor. Reality folks. So many people that go on and on about socialized this socialized that truly have no idea of how much that would screw this country up.
Speaking from experience, I have never waited 4 hours in the ER. And who says you have to go to the ER for a doctor's visit anyway? You have a doctor for regular stuff with which you make appointments, and if it's a bloody emergency, then you'll get treated at the ER by priority as it should be. But if you turn up a saturday night with a cold, then yeah, you might be sitting there for a while.
Heres another thing, with socialized medicine, there is no profit to be made by pharmaceutical companies for developing newer and better medicines and treatments. Right now the rest of the world depends on our health system to be cutting edge.
Strange how many large companies in the business are French and German too. No profit? Get real. We pay for our meds like anyone else, only ours are less overpriced overall. There isn't as much profit, but why ishould max profit be the motive here anyway? Rest assured, they make a living, and if they develop new meds, they'll sell them and make a profit like everywhere else.
And in regards to the original topic at hand. Liberalism in its essence is a good idea, no one can argue with that. Its great to want to have everyone stand on equal footing. The facts are though that that is impossible. History has shown us that.
Liberalism is the heart of any western world political and societal structure at this point. It would depend on what you mean by it though, as it's a very fuzzy word. Liberalism is marked by the inalienable individual rights, habeas coprpus and all that. The western world is made up of "liberal democracies". It's not a loose theory, it's the reigning paradigm of the world.
Couldn't resist.
Peace
Dan
Nice work Dan. Best post i have read in a long while.
I am not going to disagree with that, however i have never seen voter fraud like what happened in Minnesota with Al Franken.
what fraud exactly happened in Minnesota?
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
you know, after reading this thread...I really really really appreciate AMT more than ever...folks here can get out of hand every once in a while (guilty :oops: ) but damn, some of the crap in this thread is ka razzzy....
How is social healthcare a good thing? The health care system in canada and europe are a joke. Imagine showing up at the emergency room and being forced to wait 4 hours to see a doctor. Reality folks. So many people that go on and on about socialized this socialized that truly have no idea of how much that would screw this country up.
Speaking from experience, I have never waited 4 hours in the ER. And who says you have to go to the ER for a doctor's visit anyway? You have a doctor for regular stuff with which you make appointments, and if it's a bloody emergency, then you'll get treated at the ER by priority as it should be. But if you turn up a saturday night with a cold, then yeah, you might be sitting there for a while.
Heres another thing, with socialized medicine, there is no profit to be made by pharmaceutical companies for developing newer and better medicines and treatments. Right now the rest of the world depends on our health system to be cutting edge.
Strange how many large companies in the business are French and German too. No profit? Get real. We pay for our meds like anyone else, only ours are less overpriced overall. There isn't as much profit, but why ishould max profit be the motive here anyway? Rest assured, they make a living, and if they develop new meds, they'll sell them and make a profit like everywhere else.
And in regards to the original topic at hand. Liberalism in its essence is a good idea, no one can argue with that. Its great to want to have everyone stand on equal footing. The facts are though that that is impossible. History has shown us that.
Liberalism is the heart of any western world political and societal structure at this point. It would depend on what you mean by it though, as it's a very fuzzy word. Liberalism is marked by the inalienable individual rights, habeas coprpus and all that. The western world is made up of "liberal democracies". It's not a loose theory, it's the reigning paradigm of the world.
Couldn't resist.
Peace
Dan
Could not have said it better myself Dan.
Being from Canada in our "mockery" of a system I can say I have never ONCE in I do not know how many doctor visited anymore than an hour. When I had to go to the ER because of severe stomach pain I was in and out in less 10 minutes because of the triage system. Sorry folks, someone in a car accident will bump you down the line because you are in the ER at midnight for your mild cough.
The bad stories you hear out of Canada are the people going to the ER in the evening that have a cold and complain it took forever to see a doctor, well guess what go to a climic in the morning and wait less than 30 minutes to get checked out. The ER is made for emergencies, I can somewhat guarantee that for 9/10 complaints you hear about the Canadian system are from people trying to see a doctor in the ER for something mundane that is suited for the family doctor.
As for pharmaceutical companies, under our system we are still on the hook to pay for prescription med's, my health plan at work covers 90%. So trust me they are getting paid.
I know from experience within a public system, which most here do not have, that there are flaws that need to be fixed but I will take it over the giant mess down south.
Collegue/best friend of mine just moved back from the USA and he was a staunch Canadian Conservative before leaving and he said the he was appalled at the system down south and is now (b/c he was always complaining over taxes and our health care prior to leaving) is very happy to be back in this system. Said he could not believe how much better we have it and he was shocked to learn it the hard way. Said he waited longer in doctor rooms down there than up here and he was completely covered through his large company he worked for. Only one story showing one side but still a true eye account from someone who has experienced years of both. Almost fell over when he told me he was happy to pay our taxes to contribute to a human right, says you realyl appreciate it and know it when you have a family.
I think more people need to do proper research because some of the arguements presented here, again from my point of view of living in a "socialist" system, are so far off based they are hard to take serious.
this thread is hilarious. i can tell that the people from the porch are novices when it comes to political debate. i can't believe i wasted 15 minutes of my life reading through all of this juvenile crap. i guess that is what happens when you don't read sources other than the limbaugh letter or the nation. sad state our country is in when you rely on fox "news" or the major media outlets for your information.
as for the original poster's question. yes i believe that the band is thrilled to support something other than the same brilliant bullshit tax cut and cowboy foreign policy that we have had the last 8 years. it obviously has not worked. a new approach was necessary, and mcsame and the idiot palin were obviously not going to do anything drastically different than bushco. i would have voted for the 16 oz sirloin in my refrigerator over those two any day and i think a majority of those in this country feel the same as me. i would call the OP out and ask for links to the reasons why he believe obama is a socialist but i dont see the point, as he obviously would have done it by now if he were inclined to do so.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Comments
Thanks for posting that!
If you dont mind, I am going to copy and paste part of that...
Chapter 3 of The End of the American Century, titled "Torn Social Fabric," focuses especially on the relatively poor levels of health care in the U.S., and how badly it fares in comparison to other wealthy countries. As I point out there, this is surprising in many ways "because the United States indeed does have available the best medical care in the world and spends more on health care than any other country." But "because there are so many poor people in the United States and so many people without access to health care, the average level of health and medical care in the United States is among the worst in the developed world" (bold added). In the late 1990s, the World Health Organization ranked the U.S. at 37th in the world in the overall performance of the health system. This was the lowest ranking of any country in the OECD.
New data reported in the New York Times confirms these disturbing trends. The United States now ranks 29th in the world on infant mortality rates which, as the Times points out, is "one of the most important indicators of the health of a nation and the quality of its medical system." The U.S. ranking has declined sharply since 1960, when its ranking was 12th in the world.
This international gap has widened even though the U.S. spends far more on health care than most other wealthy countries, on both a per capita basis and as a percentage of GDP. In 2006, according to the Times, "Americans spent $6714 per capita on health--more than twice the average of other industrialized countries."
Grace Marie Turner, president of the Galen Institute, a conservative research organization, told the Times "infant mortality and our comparison with the rest of the world continue to be an embarrassment to the United States."
The dismal state of health care in the U.S. reflects broader trends of social and economic decline in the U.S.--compared both to our own past and to other countries in the world. It is the major theme of The End of the American Century: that the U.S. has lost ground as other countries have gained; and that we can no longer claim special privilege as the richest, or the most successful, or the most powerful--on almost any dimension.
The poor state of health care, and education, and infrastructure in the U.S. result from inadequate attention and resources to these areas of our domestic health. They pose the second horn of the U.S. dilemma: our economy is collapsing at the very time when we most need resources to rebuild the country at home, and reestablish our reputation abroad.
Nuclear fission
We are in this trouble due to Greed. On the part of both our health care professionals hospitals and insurance companies.
The insurance companies top line is profit. Our family has conservatively paid in premiums of approx 9,000 per year for more than 10 years only to find that a bill is not paid because the healthcare provider is "coded" wrong or has "coded" a procedure wrong.You are stuck in the middle between Doc and Insurance Co just wanting for the to bill paid swearing its cause the insurance company wants to weasel out of paying all it can- again profit.
Greed on the part of Doctors which I realize is a noble profession but...
we live on a well to do lake(across the street we're not that well to do) 3million+ homes- million dollar older homes from the 70's torn down to build grossly huge homes on the lakeside lot. Most of these homes bought by doctors.We even had trouble with homeowners wanting helicopters and pads- someone is making way to much money while our country crumbles.
The services provided by both doctor and hospital are inflated when covered by the insurance company or our government thru medicare and medicaid. When an individual who is uninsured rents a wheelchair, sees the doctor at the office or goes to the ER they are charged considerably less than the insurance carrier or our Gov. We the people who are suffering due to high taxation and insurance premiums to cover these inflated charges.
Free enterprise based in greed and its hurting our country.
I am not going to disagree with that, however i have never seen voter fraud like what happened in Minnesota with Al Franken. It seems that Minnesota does the goofiest things. A wrestler as governor, now a comedian as senator.
Sorry Swedish Chef, but you FAIL. The U.S. is actually the only country that has a true, Establishment clause in its Constitution - which says " "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion." Yep, we're the ONLY country that has that, motherfuckers. Too bad most God-fearing Americans are so fucking ignorant that they have no idea about the Constitution or anything it says. If you went and asked most Americans on the street, "what is our national religion?" Most would say - Christianity. Fucking rednecks!
As to the first poster, whatever. Lots of successful, industrialized countries have "socialized healthcare." Not only that, but the plan is only to offer "socialized" healthcare to the 40 million or so Americans that don't already have it. If you have a job and already healthcare - no big deal. Get your facts right. Plus, it was our last President, if you recall, that bankrupted our country (in addition to starting 2 wars and allowing the first American city to be devestated since Pearl Harbor) - not this one. Moreover, you're just another stuck-up, privileged Penn kid whose daddy works at Comcast. I went to law school at Temple, so I know all about Philly and looking over your shoulder when you leave the library at 2am. But wait, B-School is a joke anyway... Just because you obviously don't know where the hot spots are in the city, doesn't mean Philly sucks - it means you suck (and probably aren't getting enough pussy! NUKED.
Hahahaha!!!!! Do you even know what socialism means???? Go read some books and get yourself a bit more educated before coming with stupid comments like that. If Obama's a socialist, I'm the guy that will bring Pearl Jam to a private concert for my friends in my backyard!
I just don't have any respect for guys like you that bring a dumb comment like that. I guess you should go work for Fox News; they're always looking idiots like you to be on TV!
98 - Montreal
00 - Montreal
03 - Toronto, Montreal
04 - Boston (Show #1)
05 - Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto
06 - Toronto (Show #1)
09 - Toronto, Philly (Show #3-4)
10 - Cleveland
11 - Montreal, Toronto (x2), Ottawa
13 - London (ON), Philly (x2)
16 - QC - Ottawa
Russia??? you are aware that we are the ONLY industrialized nation that doesn't have universal health care, right?
Obama is far from a socialist.
what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?
"I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama
when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
Maybe his avatar screams, "motivated libertarian," in which case, you could find quite a bit wrong with both Obama and Bush's administrations.
Sums up the problem right there.
BOS-9/28/04,9/29/04,6/28/08,6/30/08, 9/5/16, 9/7/16, 9/2/18
MTL-9/15/05, OTT-9/16/05
PHL-5/27/06,5/28/06,10/30/09,10/31/09
CHI-8/2/07,8/5/07,8/23/09,8/24/09
HTFD-6/27/08
ATX-10/4/09, 10/12/14
KC-5/3/2010,STL-5/4/2010
Bridge School-10/23/2010,10/24/2010
PJ20-9/3/2011,9/4/2011
OKC-11/16/13
SEA-12/6/13
TUL-10/8/14
as a former republican I agree with a lot of what you say....I look back and consider myself (at that time) as being very closed minded...very naive...uninformed...too brainwashed of the "government is bad" and "democrats are weak" drivel that the GOP constantly spews
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
If you own property, have a job, and buy stuff, you've already been giving 50% of your earnings back to the government, and they show absoultey no restraint or responsibile use of your money.
I do have a problem with this.
I believe that charity would be better handled in the private sector, and if more money was available to the private sector, there would be far more donations to companies that handled their causes better than others. Those companies who used their funding fraudulently would eventually be exposed, and held accountable under current legislation against fraud-- unlike our government, which is accountable to no one.
Police and fire are best handled at local government levels, and that's why they work out alright. When the federal government gets invovled, things get messy.
I think I would prefer roadwork to be done by the private sector through sealed, competitive bidding among private companies. It works fine in the construction industry of public works, why wouldn't it work on bridges and roads?
Here's a good quote for jlew....he was questioning the legitimacy of the WHO ranking the USA #37...this is a little more current
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
So, here's your chance. You air your grievence with facts and I'll give you a listen and will debate the issue with you. If you don't....well, you're just a partisan hack and that isn't worth debating with.
http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
I agree when you posters or thread starters who post generalizations and fail to give a factual base to their arguments. Mainly wanting to post their partisan side of the post.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Why did you vote for him in the first place? He's doing just as he said he would when he ran for president. I think he's doing a great job and doing more in a few months than Bush II did in all eight years. I'm pretty happy with what I have. I listened when Obama talked and said, "I bet he might actually be serious!"
I am not an Obamaniac, never was, never will be. The walking on water stuff some people were indulging in was enough to make me sick. He's a good guy, and Americans are scared by the word "socialism." Which we have in buckets around us every day of our lives and which we are happy to benefit from so long as we think of it as "our right," rather than socialism. America's strength is its blend of socialism and quasi-free market economy. Ever been to a public school? Ever been to a library? Ever been served by the fire department? Ever collected on social security? Ever benefited from Medicaid or Medicare? Ever collected a check from the Armed Services? Ever utilized the VA? Ever had the cops protect you? Ever had your roads paved? Get mail much? I don't mean to scare you, but, yeah. The "S" word does come in when you talk about these things and any number of other things that happen for you and for your benefit.
Personally, I think it's horrifying that Obama wants every American to be able to have access to health care. And even more horrifying to think that he wants to require everyone to Join Up and pay something for it up front so that you and I don't end up paying a lot more for it in clean up costs for health care costs that escalate when people just show up next to dead in ERs because of...no health care. Pay now, it's cheaper. In our state, as in many states, we have mandatory car insurance. Pay up or else. I initially hated the idea, because you know I'm a safe driver. I won't have an accident. I just won't. Why should I pay? Well, how about because I actually have a little something that someone else could sue me for and take my little something? Now, I have to admit it's nice to know that when I'm hit by another driver, that the other driver is not so likely to be a deadbeat who I cannot get a penny out of to fix the damage to my car or to me that he cost me. Is the insurance under $10 a year? No. But, when I driver ran into my husband's truck, it was nice to have the expense of restoring the vehicle covered. If I should ever be badly injured, it's nice to know that my insurance will pay a sizeable sum to get me up and at 'em again.
I'm sick and tired of these people who are so healthy (and maybe they are this instant) that they do not want to be forced to pay for health insurance. But, I am damn sick of paying for these very same people when they show up at the ER needing heart surgery or cancer treatments and they haven't got a penny to pay for any of it. Everyone gets old and almost everyone gets sick, eventually. Pay up, deadbeats! Our current health care system is broken under the weight of people just like you. Trust me, the bitching and moaning about "socialist health care" will subside when people start to see that it is good for the country, just like the socialist military, postal service, etc.
How is social healthcare a good thing? The health care system in canada and europe are a joke. Imagine showing up at the emergency room and being forced to wait 4 hours to see a doctor. Reality folks. So many people that go on and on about socialized this socialized that truly have no idea of how much that would screw this country up. Heres another thing, with socialized medicine, there is no profit to be made by pharmaceutical companies for developing newer and better medicines and treatments. Right now the rest of the world depends on our health system to be cutting edge. And in regards to the original topic at hand. Liberalism in its essence is a good idea, no one can argue with that. Its great to want to have everyone stand on equal footing. The facts are though that that is impossible. History has shown us that.
Philly 4 Oct. 31 2009 Hartford May 2010 Boston May 2010 MSG 1 May 2010
EV: Albany 1 and 2 June 2009 Providence June 15 2011 Hartford June 18 2011
right on and right on... :!:
any data to support you baseless assertions...?
I'm not sure those 2 brainiacs are able to figure out that their thread has been moved from the porch to the moving train.
Strange how many large companies in the business are French and German too. No profit? Get real. We pay for our meds like anyone else, only ours are less overpriced overall. There isn't as much profit, but why ishould max profit be the motive here anyway? Rest assured, they make a living, and if they develop new meds, they'll sell them and make a profit like everywhere else.
Liberalism is the heart of any western world political and societal structure at this point. It would depend on what you mean by it though, as it's a very fuzzy word. Liberalism is marked by the inalienable individual rights, habeas coprpus and all that. The western world is made up of "liberal democracies". It's not a loose theory, it's the reigning paradigm of the world.
Couldn't resist.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
Nice work Dan. Best post i have read in a long while.
We have to spend money to save...real good plan
what...? :?
what fraud exactly happened in Minnesota?
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Could not have said it better myself Dan.
Being from Canada in our "mockery" of a system I can say I have never ONCE in I do not know how many doctor visited anymore than an hour. When I had to go to the ER because of severe stomach pain I was in and out in less 10 minutes because of the triage system. Sorry folks, someone in a car accident will bump you down the line because you are in the ER at midnight for your mild cough.
The bad stories you hear out of Canada are the people going to the ER in the evening that have a cold and complain it took forever to see a doctor, well guess what go to a climic in the morning and wait less than 30 minutes to get checked out. The ER is made for emergencies, I can somewhat guarantee that for 9/10 complaints you hear about the Canadian system are from people trying to see a doctor in the ER for something mundane that is suited for the family doctor.
As for pharmaceutical companies, under our system we are still on the hook to pay for prescription med's, my health plan at work covers 90%. So trust me they are getting paid.
I know from experience within a public system, which most here do not have, that there are flaws that need to be fixed but I will take it over the giant mess down south.
Collegue/best friend of mine just moved back from the USA and he was a staunch Canadian Conservative before leaving and he said the he was appalled at the system down south and is now (b/c he was always complaining over taxes and our health care prior to leaving) is very happy to be back in this system. Said he could not believe how much better we have it and he was shocked to learn it the hard way. Said he waited longer in doctor rooms down there than up here and he was completely covered through his large company he worked for. Only one story showing one side but still a true eye account from someone who has experienced years of both. Almost fell over when he told me he was happy to pay our taxes to contribute to a human right, says you realyl appreciate it and know it when you have a family.
I think more people need to do proper research because some of the arguements presented here, again from my point of view of living in a "socialist" system, are so far off based they are hard to take serious.
as for the original poster's question. yes i believe that the band is thrilled to support something other than the same brilliant bullshit tax cut and cowboy foreign policy that we have had the last 8 years. it obviously has not worked. a new approach was necessary, and mcsame and the idiot palin were obviously not going to do anything drastically different than bushco. i would have voted for the 16 oz sirloin in my refrigerator over those two any day and i think a majority of those in this country feel the same as me. i would call the OP out and ask for links to the reasons why he believe obama is a socialist but i dont see the point, as he obviously would have done it by now if he were inclined to do so.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."