I Hope PJ is Thrilled about Supporting a Socialist Prez

Flagg

FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:

http://endoftheamericancentury.blogspot.com/2008/10/us-ranks-low-on-health-care.html

Sums up the problem right there.

Gern Blansten

hey wrote:

We are embarking on dangerous ground with Mr. Obama? It seemed pretty dangerous to me when that clown of a president Bush was in office. I don't really know too too much about politics and I am not here to sound like i do. What I do think i have though is quite a few life experiences and have met many people throughout my journeys. Let me just say this. I believe that when you hear the same thing over and over again from many different people there has to be some truth to it. What I have heard many times from many different people is that republicans are narrow minded thinkers. I believe that somewhat pretty much b/c I have literally heard it over and over again from many different people. For example. My one friend who hasn't always been a huge PJ fan but I helped him see the light always said things to me like, I hope PJ's next album or single isn't political, or I hope Eddie doesn't talk about politics tonight at the show. I am always like, dude, where have you been, Eddie has always been like this, maybe not always as vocal, but he has been political. Writing Pro-Choice on your arm during a performance isn't political? That was years ago!!! My point is I know his father and his father is old school, straight laced, overall a nice man. BUT! He is republican and I have heard it with my own two ears telling his son, my friend, what are you doing listening to that hippy crap. That band doesn't support the war and our troops. To me, just narrow minded thinking, and I think its human nature to agree with your father, whether right or wrong cause he is your father. So my friend hears this and is like yeah, my dad is right. Why can't they just sing about girls, and hot rods, and getting laid. Why do they have to sing and talk about things that are actually going to make me think? I think a lot of people out there follow what their parents believe and I have found it to be many many mostly republicans when I witness this. I went to school in the south and don't even get me started on the south. Again, some of the things you hear time and time again about people living in the south are true. I had a roomate, very nice guy, we got along fine but were very different when it came to politics. I think the bottom line between us is that over the years I have formed my own opinions and he has gone off of what his FATHER believes. I remember reading I think is was either Howard Zinn or Ralph Nadar call it something like __________ thinking or something! Does anyone remember? But he even told me like my father is republican and that is why I am. Like god forbid you think differently than your father. That is why the south is a lot of republicans b/c many many people vote a certain way b/c their father does and his father does and aunt tilly used too and her uncle did. Its true but I also understand it can go both ways. Another friend of mine, and I still refer to him as my friend b/c no matter what, we will always be friends, is very very republican. His father is also, and they are catholic. I am just gonna go out on a limb here and say that most of my friends childhood was probably filled with republican talk and religous speeches. In this household they most likely went hand and hand. I always thought this was supposed to be kept sperate but over the years to me it does not seem like the case. He is totally against abortion and to me it seems like he is only against it b/c 1. Thats the republican way. 2. That is the catholic way 3. His father told him it was wrong. My point is, in speaking with him it never seems like he has ever put any more thought into it b/c he doesn't have to. His faith has already told him its wrong, his political view has told him its wrong, and his father, whom he dare not think differently than thinks this way. I know this is long but do you see where I am going with this people? Too me, with these examples, it seems like pretty narrow minded thinking or lack there of. My cousin told me that somone, may have been Bill O Reilly, on earth day or something, when others out there were planting trees he did a segment on his show where he was cutting trees down. Can someone confirm this for me? If this is true that is just bs, and if anyone out there follows this guy you should be ashamed of yourself. He is probably only republican cause his daddy and entire family tree wouldn't have it any other way. I remember reading a while back that Eddie was very close with one of the Ramone brothers and that he ( the ramone brother ) was very republican and that he would test eddie and ask him political questions just to teach him and to help one another learn about other points of view. To me that is awesome and that is exactly what we as people are not doing. People are not open to new ideas and only stick to what they were raised on, not everyone, but it happens a lot. Sepatation of church and state is bs b/c people tie the two together every single day. What do you people think?

as a former republican I agree with a lot of what you say....I look back and consider myself (at that time) as being very closed minded...very naive...uninformed...too brainwashed of the "government is bad" and "democrats are weak" drivel that the GOP constantly spews

VINNY GOOMBA

Our country has been "socialist" for years.

If you own property, have a job, and buy stuff, you've already been giving 50% of your earnings back to the government, and they show absoultey no restraint or responsibile use of your money.
I do have a problem with this.

I believe that charity would be better handled in the private sector, and if more money was available to the private sector, there would be far more donations to companies that handled their causes better than others. Those companies who used their funding fraudulently would eventually be exposed, and held accountable under current legislation against fraud-- unlike our government, which is accountable to no one.

Police and fire are best handled at local government levels, and that's why they work out alright. When the federal government gets invovled, things get messy.

I think I would prefer roadwork to be done by the private sector through sealed, competitive bidding among private companies. It works fine in the construction industry of public works, why wouldn't it work on bridges and roads?

Gern Blansten

FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:

http://endoftheamericancentury.blogspot.com/2008/10/us-ranks-low-on-health-care.html

New data reported in the New York Times confirms these disturbing trends. The United States now ranks 29th in the world on infant mortality rates which, as the Times points out, is "one of the most important indicators of the health of a nation and the quality of its medical system." The U.S. ranking has declined sharply since 1960, when its ranking was 12th in the world.

Here's a good quote for jlew....he was questioning the legitimacy of the WHO ranking the USA #37...this is a little more current

ledvedderman

15 (now 16) fucking pages and Three Legged Dog, Sawyer, or anyone else has yet to hold an actual factual debate as to why they think the President is a socialist or why UHC is so terrible. They resort to personal attacks and gross generalizations. They are talking point debaters and have nothing beyond that. However, there were low blows against these guys too.

So, here's your chance. You air your grievence with facts and I'll give you a listen and will debate the issue with you. If you don't....well, you're just a partisan hack and that isn't worth debating with.

g under p

ledvedderman wrote:

15 (now 16) fucking pages and Three Legged Dog, Sawyer, or anyone else has yet to hold an actual factual debate as to why they think the President is a socialist or why UHC is so terrible. They resort to personal attacks and gross generalizations. They are talking point debaters and have nothing beyond that. However, there were low blows against these guys too.

So, here's your chance. You air your grievence with facts and I'll give you a listen and will debate the issue with you. If you don't....well, you're just a partisan hack and that isn't worth debating with.

I agree when you posters or thread starters who post generalizations and fail to give a factual base to their arguments. Mainly wanting to post their partisan side of the post.

Peace

JR8805

Sawyer wrote:

dreamweaver wrote:

WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT???

not vote for the guy.....again

Why did you vote for him in the first place? He's doing just as he said he would when he ran for president. I think he's doing a great job and doing more in a few months than Bush II did in all eight years. I'm pretty happy with what I have. I listened when Obama talked and said, "I bet he might actually be serious!"

I am not an Obamaniac, never was, never will be. The walking on water stuff some people were indulging in was enough to make me sick. He's a good guy, and Americans are scared by the word "socialism." Which we have in buckets around us every day of our lives and which we are happy to benefit from so long as we think of it as "our right," rather than socialism. America's strength is its blend of socialism and quasi-free market economy. Ever been to a public school? Ever been to a library? Ever been served by the fire department? Ever collected on social security? Ever benefited from Medicaid or Medicare? Ever collected a check from the Armed Services? Ever utilized the VA? Ever had the cops protect you? Ever had your roads paved? Get mail much? I don't mean to scare you, but, yeah. The "S" word does come in when you talk about these things and any number of other things that happen for you and for your benefit.

Personally, I think it's horrifying that Obama wants every American to be able to have access to health care. And even more horrifying to think that he wants to require everyone to Join Up and pay something for it up front so that you and I don't end up paying a lot more for it in clean up costs for health care costs that escalate when people just show up next to dead in ERs because of...no health care. Pay now, it's cheaper. In our state, as in many states, we have mandatory car insurance. Pay up or else. I initially hated the idea, because you know I'm a safe driver. I won't have an accident. I just won't. Why should I pay? Well, how about because I actually have a little something that someone else could sue me for and take my little something? Now, I have to admit it's nice to know that when I'm hit by another driver, that the other driver is not so likely to be a deadbeat who I cannot get a penny out of to fix the damage to my car or to me that he cost me. Is the insurance under $10 a year? No. But, when I driver ran into my husband's truck, it was nice to have the expense of restoring the vehicle covered. If I should ever be badly injured, it's nice to know that my insurance will pay a sizeable sum to get me up and at 'em again.

I'm sick and tired of these people who are so healthy (and maybe they are this instant) that they do not want to be forced to pay for health insurance. But, I am damn sick of paying for these very same people when they show up at the ER needing heart surgery or cancer treatments and they haven't got a penny to pay for any of it. Everyone gets old and almost everyone gets sick, eventually. Pay up, deadbeats! Our current health care system is broken under the weight of people just like you. Trust me, the bitching and moaning about "socialist health care" will subside when people start to see that it is good for the country, just like the socialist military, postal service, etc.

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

you guys like feeding trolls?

Got Some If You Need It

JR8805 wrote:

Sawyer wrote:

dreamweaver wrote:

WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT???

not vote for the guy.....again

Why did you vote for him in the first place? He's doing just as he said he would when he ran for president. I think he's doing a great job and doing more in a few months than Bush II did in all eight years. I'm pretty happy with what I have. I listened when Obama talked and said, "I bet he might actually be serious!"

I am not an Obamaniac, never was, never will be. The walking on water stuff some people were indulging in was enough to make me sick. He's a good guy, and Americans are scared by the word "socialism." Which we have in buckets around us every day of our lives and which we are happy to benefit from so long as we think of it as "our right," rather than socialism. America's strength is its blend of socialism and quasi-free market economy. Ever been to a public school? Ever been to a library? Ever been served by the fire department? Ever collected on social security? Ever benefited from Medicaid or Medicare? Ever collected a check from the Armed Services? Ever utilized the VA? Ever had the cops protect you? Ever had your roads paved? Get mail much? I don't mean to scare you, but, yeah. The "S" word does come in when you talk about these things and any number of other things that happen for you and for your benefit.

Personally, I think it's horrifying that Obama wants every American to be able to have access to health care. And even more horrifying to think that he wants to require everyone to Join Up and pay something for it up front so that you and I don't end up paying a lot more for it in clean up costs for health care costs that escalate when people just show up next to dead in ERs because of...no health care. Pay now, it's cheaper. In our state, as in many states, we have mandatory car insurance. Pay up or else. I initially hated the idea, because you know I'm a safe driver. I won't have an accident. I just won't. Why should I pay? Well, how about because I actually have a little something that someone else could sue me for and take my little something? Now, I have to admit it's nice to know that when I'm hit by another driver, that the other driver is not so likely to be a deadbeat who I cannot get a penny out of to fix the damage to my car or to me that he cost me. Is the insurance under $10 a year? No. But, when I driver ran into my husband's truck, it was nice to have the expense of restoring the vehicle covered. If I should ever be badly injured, it's nice to know that my insurance will pay a sizeable sum to get me up and at 'em again.

I'm sick and tired of these people who are so healthy (and maybe they are this instant) that they do not want to be forced to pay for health insurance. But, I am damn sick of paying for these very same people when they show up at the ER needing heart surgery or cancer treatments and they haven't got a penny to pay for any of it. Everyone gets old and almost everyone gets sick, eventually. Pay up, deadbeats! Our current health care system is broken under the weight of people just like you. Trust me, the bitching and moaning about "socialist health care" will subside when people start to see that it is good for the country, just like the socialist military, postal service, etc.

How is social healthcare a good thing? The health care system in canada and europe are a joke. Imagine showing up at the emergency room and being forced to wait 4 hours to see a doctor. Reality folks. So many people that go on and on about socialized this socialized that truly have no idea of how much that would screw this country up. Heres another thing, with socialized medicine, there is no profit to be made by pharmaceutical companies for developing newer and better medicines and treatments. Right now the rest of the world depends on our health system to be cutting edge. And in regards to the original topic at hand. Liberalism in its essence is a good idea, no one can argue with that. Its great to want to have everyone stand on equal footing. The facts are though that that is impossible. History has shown us that.

inmytree

g under p wrote:

ledvedderman wrote:

15 (now 16) fucking pages and Three Legged Dog, Sawyer, or anyone else has yet to hold an actual factual debate as to why they think the President is a socialist or why UHC is so terrible. They resort to personal attacks and gross generalizations. They are talking point debaters and have nothing beyond that. However, there were low blows against these guys too.

So, here's your chance. You air your grievence with facts and I'll give you a listen and will debate the issue with you. If you don't....well, you're just a partisan hack and that isn't worth debating with.

I agree when you posters or thread starters who post generalizations and fail to give a factual base to their arguments. Mainly wanting to post their partisan side of the post.

Peace

right on and right on... :!:

inmytree

Got Some If You Need It wrote:

How is social healthcare a good thing? The health care system in canada and europe are a joke. Imagine showing up at the emergency room and being forced to wait 4 hours to see a doctor. Reality folks. So many people that go on and on about socialized this socialized that truly have no idea of how much that would screw this country up. Heres another thing, with socialized medicine, there is no profit to be made by pharmaceutical companies for developing newer and better medicines and treatments. Right now the rest of the world depends on our health system to be cutting edge. And in regards to the original topic at hand. Liberalism in its essence is a good idea, no one can argue with that. Its great to want to have everyone stand on equal footing. The facts are though that that is impossible. History has shown us that.

any data to support you baseless assertions...?

brandon10

ledvedderman wrote:

15 (now 16) fucking pages and Three Legged Dog, Sawyer, or anyone else has yet to hold an actual factual debate as to why they think the President is a socialist or why UHC is so terrible. They resort to personal attacks and gross generalizations. They are talking point debaters and have nothing beyond that. However, there were low blows against these guys too.

So, here's your chance. You air your grievence with facts and I'll give you a listen and will debate the issue with you. If you don't....well, you're just a partisan hack and that isn't worth debating with.

I'm not sure those 2 brainiacs are able to figure out that their thread has been moved from the porch to the moving train.

OutOfBreath

How is social healthcare a good thing? The health care system in canada and europe are a joke. Imagine showing up at the emergency room and being forced to wait 4 hours to see a doctor. Reality folks. So many people that go on and on about socialized this socialized that truly have no idea of how much that would screw this country up.

Speaking from experience, I have never waited 4 hours in the ER. And who says you have to go to the ER for a doctor's visit anyway? You have a doctor for regular stuff with which you make appointments, and if it's a bloody emergency, then you'll get treated at the ER by priority as it should be. But if you turn up a saturday night with a cold, then yeah, you might be sitting there for a while.

Heres another thing, with socialized medicine, there is no profit to be made by pharmaceutical companies for developing newer and better medicines and treatments. Right now the rest of the world depends on our health system to be cutting edge.

Strange how many large companies in the business are French and German too. No profit? Get real. We pay for our meds like anyone else, only ours are less overpriced overall. There isn't as much profit, but why ishould max profit be the motive here anyway? Rest assured, they make a living, and if they develop new meds, they'll sell them and make a profit like everywhere else.

And in regards to the original topic at hand. Liberalism in its essence is a good idea, no one can argue with that. Its great to want to have everyone stand on equal footing. The facts are though that that is impossible. History has shown us that.

Liberalism is the heart of any western world political and societal structure at this point. It would depend on what you mean by it though, as it's a very fuzzy word. Liberalism is marked by the inalienable individual rights, habeas coprpus and all that. The western world is made up of "liberal democracies". It's not a loose theory, it's the reigning paradigm of the world.

Couldn't resist.

Peace
Dan

brandon10

OutOfBreath wrote:

How is social healthcare a good thing? The health care system in canada and europe are a joke. Imagine showing up at the emergency room and being forced to wait 4 hours to see a doctor. Reality folks. So many people that go on and on about socialized this socialized that truly have no idea of how much that would screw this country up.

Speaking from experience, I have never waited 4 hours in the ER. And who says you have to go to the ER for a doctor's visit anyway? You have a doctor for regular stuff with which you make appointments, and if it's a bloody emergency, then you'll get treated at the ER by priority as it should be. But if you turn up a saturday night with a cold, then yeah, you might be sitting there for a while.

Heres another thing, with socialized medicine, there is no profit to be made by pharmaceutical companies for developing newer and better medicines and treatments. Right now the rest of the world depends on our health system to be cutting edge.

Strange how many large companies in the business are French and German too. No profit? Get real. We pay for our meds like anyone else, only ours are less overpriced overall. There isn't as much profit, but why ishould max profit be the motive here anyway? Rest assured, they make a living, and if they develop new meds, they'll sell them and make a profit like everywhere else.

And in regards to the original topic at hand. Liberalism in its essence is a good idea, no one can argue with that. Its great to want to have everyone stand on equal footing. The facts are though that that is impossible. History has shown us that.

Liberalism is the heart of any western world political and societal structure at this point. It would depend on what you mean by it though, as it's a very fuzzy word. Liberalism is marked by the inalienable individual rights, habeas coprpus and all that. The western world is made up of "liberal democracies". It's not a loose theory, it's the reigning paradigm of the world.

Couldn't resist.

Peace
Dan

Nice work Dan. Best post i have read in a long while.

hrd2imgn

I hope all the libs are happy they got what they wished for.

We have to spend money to save...real good plan

inmytree

hrd2imgn wrote:

I hope all the libs are happy they got what they wished for.

We have to spend money to save...real good plan

what...? :?

blackredyellow

lowbudgetlush wrote:

I am not going to disagree with that, however i have never seen voter fraud like what happened in Minnesota with Al Franken.

what fraud exactly happened in Minnesota?

inmytree

you know, after reading this thread...I really really really appreciate AMT more than ever...folks here can get out of hand every once in a while (guilty :oops: ) but damn, some of the crap in this thread is ka razzzy....

RockinInCanada

OutOfBreath wrote:

How is social healthcare a good thing? The health care system in canada and europe are a joke. Imagine showing up at the emergency room and being forced to wait 4 hours to see a doctor. Reality folks. So many people that go on and on about socialized this socialized that truly have no idea of how much that would screw this country up.

Speaking from experience, I have never waited 4 hours in the ER. And who says you have to go to the ER for a doctor's visit anyway? You have a doctor for regular stuff with which you make appointments, and if it's a bloody emergency, then you'll get treated at the ER by priority as it should be. But if you turn up a saturday night with a cold, then yeah, you might be sitting there for a while.

Heres another thing, with socialized medicine, there is no profit to be made by pharmaceutical companies for developing newer and better medicines and treatments. Right now the rest of the world depends on our health system to be cutting edge.

Strange how many large companies in the business are French and German too. No profit? Get real. We pay for our meds like anyone else, only ours are less overpriced overall. There isn't as much profit, but why ishould max profit be the motive here anyway? Rest assured, they make a living, and if they develop new meds, they'll sell them and make a profit like everywhere else.

And in regards to the original topic at hand. Liberalism in its essence is a good idea, no one can argue with that. Its great to want to have everyone stand on equal footing. The facts are though that that is impossible. History has shown us that.

Liberalism is the heart of any western world political and societal structure at this point. It would depend on what you mean by it though, as it's a very fuzzy word. Liberalism is marked by the inalienable individual rights, habeas coprpus and all that. The western world is made up of "liberal democracies". It's not a loose theory, it's the reigning paradigm of the world.

Couldn't resist.

Peace
Dan

Could not have said it better myself Dan.

Being from Canada in our "mockery" of a system I can say I have never ONCE in I do not know how many doctor visited anymore than an hour. When I had to go to the ER because of severe stomach pain I was in and out in less 10 minutes because of the triage system. Sorry folks, someone in a car accident will bump you down the line because you are in the ER at midnight for your mild cough.

The bad stories you hear out of Canada are the people going to the ER in the evening that have a cold and complain it took forever to see a doctor, well guess what go to a climic in the morning and wait less than 30 minutes to get checked out. The ER is made for emergencies, I can somewhat guarantee that for 9/10 complaints you hear about the Canadian system are from people trying to see a doctor in the ER for something mundane that is suited for the family doctor.

As for pharmaceutical companies, under our system we are still on the hook to pay for prescription med's, my health plan at work covers 90%. So trust me they are getting paid.

I know from experience within a public system, which most here do not have, that there are flaws that need to be fixed but I will take it over the giant mess down south.

Collegue/best friend of mine just moved back from the USA and he was a staunch Canadian Conservative before leaving and he said the he was appalled at the system down south and is now (b/c he was always complaining over taxes and our health care prior to leaving) is very happy to be back in this system. Said he could not believe how much better we have it and he was shocked to learn it the hard way. Said he waited longer in doctor rooms down there than up here and he was completely covered through his large company he worked for. Only one story showing one side but still a true eye account from someone who has experienced years of both. Almost fell over when he told me he was happy to pay our taxes to contribute to a human right, says you realyl appreciate it and know it when you have a family.

I think more people need to do proper research because some of the arguements presented here, again from my point of view of living in a "socialist" system, are so far off based they are hard to take serious.

gimmesometruth27

this thread is hilarious. i can tell that the people from the porch are novices when it comes to political debate. i can't believe i wasted 15 minutes of my life reading through all of this juvenile crap. i guess that is what happens when you don't read sources other than the limbaugh letter or the nation. sad state our country is in when you rely on fox "news" or the major media outlets for your information.

as for the original poster's question. yes i believe that the band is thrilled to support something other than the same brilliant bullshit tax cut and cowboy foreign policy that we have had the last 8 years. it obviously has not worked. a new approach was necessary, and mcsame and the idiot palin were obviously not going to do anything drastically different than bushco. i would have voted for the 16 oz sirloin in my refrigerator over those two any day and i think a majority of those in this country feel the same as me. i would call the OP out and ask for links to the reasons why he believe obama is a socialist but i dont see the point, as he obviously would have done it by now if he were inclined to do so.