Not cool to be toppling statues I'd rather government put plaques up next to them pointing out what the statues represent !
I agree, and many of them do actually do have plaques telling the history...but but "racism" 200 years ago...
maybe the berlin wall should have stayed up, just add a few doors and graffiti some unicorns on it.
False equivalency
how so?
you don't need to keep monuments up that incite racism and hate. put it in a museum if you wish to remind people who want to pay to be reminded. I live in Winnipeg, where we have the Canadian Museum for Human Rights. It's a fucking depressing place, but it reminds you of the horrors of what was done in the past. that is necessary.
what isn't necessary is leaving something in public view for people to worship hate and reinforce their shitty beliefs.
Honestly, I'm okay with leaving reminders of horrific days in public places, so long as there are opportunities to learn and not mistake them as current thoughts. In Spain to this day there are monuments identifying massacres relating to the Spanish Inquisition, with numbers of deceased and plaques explaining exactly what transpired, and usually a message of never forgetting. Also in Berlin, there's an infamous memorial to the murdered right in the city.
Much to the chagrin of my Jewish friends and family, I have no problem with someone carrying a swastika through the streets, because I am obligated not to have a problem with it, in the interest of promoting freedom of speech, freedom of expression, freedom of assembly. Fight ideas with better ideas, and teach about truth, honesty, and equality.
The more you ask someone to submit to their will, the more their ideas will fester - and with the ease of finding like-minded people to assemble thanks to the internet, that festering can lead to devastating and harmful results. I personally think it's better to ask people not to be afraid of sharing their true thoughts, and educating them on why their thoughts are incorrect. This is the only way to kill those deep-rooted notions of inequality.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Not cool to be toppling statues I'd rather government put plaques up next to them pointing out what the statues represent !
I agree, and many of them do actually do have plaques telling the history...but but "racism" 200 years ago...
maybe the berlin wall should have stayed up, just add a few doors and graffiti some unicorns on it.
False equivalency
how so?
you don't need to keep monuments up that incite racism and hate. put it in a museum if you wish to remind people who want to pay to be reminded. I live in Winnipeg, where we have the Canadian Museum for Human Rights. It's a fucking depressing place, but it reminds you of the horrors of what was done in the past. that is necessary.
what isn't necessary is leaving something in public view for people to worship hate and reinforce their shitty beliefs.
Hey, I'm with you. I'm a bit of a historian and would much rather historical artifacts be placed in a museum or something...but no, anger anger hulk smash!
Not cool to be toppling statues I'd rather government put plaques up next to them pointing out what the statues represent !
I agree, and many of them do actually do have plaques telling the history...but but "racism" 200 years ago...
maybe the berlin wall should have stayed up, just add a few doors and graffiti some unicorns on it.
False equivalency
how so?
you don't need to keep monuments up that incite racism and hate. put it in a museum if you wish to remind people who want to pay to be reminded. I live in Winnipeg, where we have the Canadian Museum for Human Rights. It's a fucking depressing place, but it reminds you of the horrors of what was done in the past. that is necessary.
what isn't necessary is leaving something in public view for people to worship hate and reinforce their shitty beliefs.
Honestly, I'm okay with leaving reminders of horrific days in public places, so long as there are opportunities to learn and not mistake them as current thoughts. In Spain to this day there are monuments identifying massacres relating to the Spanish Inquisition, with numbers of deceased and plaques explaining exactly what transpired, and usually a message of never forgetting. Also in Berlin, there's an infamous memorial to the murdered right in the city.
Much to the chagrin of my Jewish friends and family, I have no problem with someone carrying a swastika through the streets, because I am obligated not to have a problem with it, in the interest of promoting freedom of speech, freedom of expression, freedom of assembly. Fight ideas with better ideas, and teach about truth, honesty, and equality.
The more you ask someone to submit to their will, the more their ideas will fester - and with the ease of finding like-minded people to assemble thanks to the internet, that festering can lead to devastating and harmful results. I personally think it's better to ask people not to be afraid of sharing their true thoughts, and educating them on why their thoughts are incorrect. This is the only way to kill those deep-rooted notions of inequality.
I think those reminders are different than the statues we are talking about, though. these are statues honouring the wrong side. if you want to have a statue with a black man breaking his shackles off, I'm all for that as well.
personal expression and public monuments to me are a whole different story. I agree wholeheartedly that if someone wants to walk through the streets showing the world their backward views, all the better. but allowing these people to walk by a monument and admiring a slave-defender in secret is what bothers me.
I love the fact that all these shitheads are being outed on twitter. their lives are being ruined. and they are all crying about it. "that's not the real me! you are taking my angry facial expression holding a torch at a white supremacist rally out of context!". Sure, buddy, sure.
Not cool to be toppling statues I'd rather government put plaques up next to them pointing out what the statues represent !
I agree, and many of them do actually do have plaques telling the history...but but "racism" 200 years ago...
maybe the berlin wall should have stayed up, just add a few doors and graffiti some unicorns on it.
False equivalency
how so?
you don't need to keep monuments up that incite racism and hate. put it in a museum if you wish to remind people who want to pay to be reminded. I live in Winnipeg, where we have the Canadian Museum for Human Rights. It's a fucking depressing place, but it reminds you of the horrors of what was done in the past. that is necessary.
what isn't necessary is leaving something in public view for people to worship hate and reinforce their shitty beliefs.
Hey, I'm with you. I'm a bit of a historian and would much rather historical artifacts be placed in a museum or something...but no, anger anger hulk smash!
but that's not how it started.
-public pressure convinces political leaders to evaluate confederate flags and statues/monuments -racists protest their right to "honour their history" (AKA: worship racists in public) -THIS is where the anger comes in. the sheer audacity that in 2017 we are still having this fight. tell me again how long ago the civil war was? you don't think this anger is justified?
It turns out If you have automatic weapons you can pretty much do what you want...
Nazis really suck.
I just watched the whole episode...really really powerful.
but where did you pick up anything on automatic weapons? out of 22 minutes of intense video i'm guessing you are concentrating on one 10 second clip in a hotel room?
Not cool to be toppling statues I'd rather government put plaques up next to them pointing out what the statues represent !
I agree, and many of them do actually do have plaques telling the history...but but "racism" 200 years ago...
maybe the berlin wall should have stayed up, just add a few doors and graffiti some unicorns on it.
False equivalency
how so?
you don't need to keep monuments up that incite racism and hate. put it in a museum if you wish to remind people who want to pay to be reminded. I live in Winnipeg, where we have the Canadian Museum for Human Rights. It's a fucking depressing place, but it reminds you of the horrors of what was done in the past. that is necessary.
what isn't necessary is leaving something in public view for people to worship hate and reinforce their shitty beliefs.
Hey, I'm with you. I'm a bit of a historian and would much rather historical artifacts be placed in a museum or something...but no, anger anger hulk smash!
but that's not how it started.
-public pressure convinces political leaders to evaluate confederate flags and statues/monuments -racists protest their right to "honour their history" (AKA: worship racists in public) -THIS is where the anger comes in. the sheer audacity that in 2017 we are still having this fight. tell me again how long ago the civil war was? you don't think this anger is justified?
The anger, yes, the actions...no. There is a difference.
It turns out If you have automatic weapons you can pretty much do what you want...
Nazis really suck.
I just watched the whole episode...really really powerful.
but where did you pick up anything on automatic weapons? out of 22 minutes of intense video i'm guessing you are concentrating on one 10 second clip in a hotel room?
I think Tiki is referring to that clip where all those chubby bearded guys with the pale legs, camo shorts and black boots strutted down Main Street looking to assert their Naziness.
Given the fact that one of them had already mowed down some pedestrians and some others had punched some women in the face... I think Tiki was saying that nobody was going to smack any of these guys even though it's in unwritten law within the constitution that you can smack nazis given their general offensiveness.
Not cool to be toppling statues I'd rather government put plaques up next to them pointing out what the statues represent !
I agree, and many of them do actually do have plaques telling the history...but but "racism" 200 years ago...
maybe the berlin wall should have stayed up, just add a few doors and graffiti some unicorns on it.
False equivalency
how so?
you don't need to keep monuments up that incite racism and hate. put it in a museum if you wish to remind people who want to pay to be reminded. I live in Winnipeg, where we have the Canadian Museum for Human Rights. It's a fucking depressing place, but it reminds you of the horrors of what was done in the past. that is necessary.
what isn't necessary is leaving something in public view for people to worship hate and reinforce their shitty beliefs.
Hey, I'm with you. I'm a bit of a historian and would much rather historical artifacts be placed in a museum or something...but no, anger anger hulk smash!
but that's not how it started.
-public pressure convinces political leaders to evaluate confederate flags and statues/monuments -racists protest their right to "honour their history" (AKA: worship racists in public) -THIS is where the anger comes in. the sheer audacity that in 2017 we are still having this fight. tell me again how long ago the civil war was? you don't think this anger is justified?
The anger, yes, the actions...no. There is a difference.
of course there is. I don't condone violence on either side unless it is self-defense. I just saw a video of an angry mob taking down a confederate statue, and at least one guy started kicking it. I don't agree with that at all. Due process. Do it the right way, legally. Doing it the wrong way just gives credence to the other side's message.
Not cool to be toppling statues I'd rather government put plaques up next to them pointing out what the statues represent !
I agree, and many of them do actually do have plaques telling the history...but but "racism" 200 years ago...
maybe the berlin wall should have stayed up, just add a few doors and graffiti some unicorns on it.
False equivalency
how so?
you don't need to keep monuments up that incite racism and hate. put it in a museum if you wish to remind people who want to pay to be reminded. I live in Winnipeg, where we have the Canadian Museum for Human Rights. It's a fucking depressing place, but it reminds you of the horrors of what was done in the past. that is necessary.
what isn't necessary is leaving something in public view for people to worship hate and reinforce their shitty beliefs.
Hey, I'm with you. I'm a bit of a historian and would much rather historical artifacts be placed in a museum or something...but no, anger anger hulk smash!
but that's not how it started.
-public pressure convinces political leaders to evaluate confederate flags and statues/monuments -racists protest their right to "honour their history" (AKA: worship racists in public) -THIS is where the anger comes in. the sheer audacity that in 2017 we are still having this fight. tell me again how long ago the civil war was? you don't think this anger is justified?
The anger, yes, the actions...no. There is a difference.
of course there is. I don't condone violence on either side unless it is self-defense. I just saw a video of an angry mob taking down a confederate statue, and at least one guy started kicking it. I don't agree with that at all. Due process. Do it the right way, legally. Doing it the wrong way just gives credence to the other side's message.
Exactly! That is the point I've been trying to make all along. Why is this concept so hard for people to understand.
Not cool to be toppling statues I'd rather government put plaques up next to them pointing out what the statues represent !
I agree, and many of them do actually do have plaques telling the history...but but "racism" 200 years ago...
maybe the berlin wall should have stayed up, just add a few doors and graffiti some unicorns on it.
False equivalency
how so?
you don't need to keep monuments up that incite racism and hate. put it in a museum if you wish to remind people who want to pay to be reminded. I live in Winnipeg, where we have the Canadian Museum for Human Rights. It's a fucking depressing place, but it reminds you of the horrors of what was done in the past. that is necessary.
what isn't necessary is leaving something in public view for people to worship hate and reinforce their shitty beliefs.
Hey, I'm with you. I'm a bit of a historian and would much rather historical artifacts be placed in a museum or something...but no, anger anger hulk smash!
but that's not how it started.
-public pressure convinces political leaders to evaluate confederate flags and statues/monuments -racists protest their right to "honour their history" (AKA: worship racists in public) -THIS is where the anger comes in. the sheer audacity that in 2017 we are still having this fight. tell me again how long ago the civil war was? you don't think this anger is justified?
The anger, yes, the actions...no. There is a difference.
of course there is. I don't condone violence on either side unless it is self-defense. I just saw a video of an angry mob taking down a confederate statue, and at least one guy started kicking it. I don't agree with that at all. Due process. Do it the right way, legally. Doing it the wrong way just gives credence to the other side's message.
Exactly! That is the point I've been trying to make all along. Why is this concept so hard for people to understand.
People have understood what you were trying to say. It was the delivery of the message that people took exception to (seemed to be suggesting something else).
"My brain's a good brain!"
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,287
This person (who I am certain people like jc get their news from) promotes fake news. The literal definition of fake news. He purposely tried to frame the driver on Saturday on an "anti trump druggie" who was in a Michigan at the time. Other alt right websites and twitter accounts quickly followed suit until the actual driver was identified. Same guy who perpetrated the pizza gate and Seth rich conspiracies and countless others.
And of course Trump retweets him. Irony is not dead. The President LOVES fake news:
there is a war on statues now. Durham "confederate statue" was torn down
I'm not so sure that was a confederate monument more like a war memorial for the boys that wore gray.
The boys in grey? The confederate army wore grey. Good, no more monuments honoring losers. Tear them all down, can't happen fast enough.
Baffles me how much liberals enjoy tearing things down and setting things on fire...oh the festering rage, hate, and anger that emanates from polar politics...
Yeah and Nazis like killing people. What's you're fucking "whataboutism" point this time?
Whatabout whataboutisms, can I coin that term. My point is that they are both major parts of the problem and not "progressing" things at all. I'm not excluding the far right, so I'm not sure why you keep getting so defensive....unless you are an Antifa idiot?
I really miss the sweat cover beast in the back named Dave! Hi Dave Imagine he and Ed on a solo anti-trump tour?
Abbruzzese shot back, “Jeff… on behalf of myself and Peg, Please shut
up. Please. I’m sick of it. Whatever you say, I dont give a shit. Donald
Trump is a poor choice to lead any country. He isnt qualified to be in
the position he is in. Anyone that thinks otherwise is just trying to
survive without a crippling panic attack. He isnt whats wrong or right
with anything. He is a mess and the his presidency couldn’t have come at
a worse time. America and the rest of the world does not have this four
years to play with. Pull your head out iof whatever ass you are
sticking in to hide from the frightening truth. This show of ignorance
and stupidity are the result of the ‘Keep Americans Stupid and Full of
Pride’ campaign that has been being waged on the citizens of the USA by
its government nonstop starting with the war on drugs profit race. What
are you proud of today, America? This is just fucking embarrassing.”
What a moron how can anyone look at this fool and say yeah what a great president is beyond comprehension !
Who is saying he is a great President though? Why would he sit there and be attacked liked that with questions that will only get ripped apart and spit back at him in the headlines. He just finished giving a condemnation speech and before he took two steps away from the podium people here were still writhe with anger saying it wasn't good enough. President Trump can't say anything and can not give a right answer in most minds. It was funny when he said "we just had a press conference".
I really miss the sweat cover beast in the back named Dave! Hi Dave Imagine he and Ed on a solo anti-trump tour?
Abbruzzese shot back, “Jeff… on behalf of myself and Peg, Please shut
up. Please. I’m sick of it. Whatever you say, I dont give a shit. Donald
Trump is a poor choice to lead any country. He isnt qualified to be in
the position he is in. Anyone that thinks otherwise is just trying to
survive without a crippling panic attack. He isnt whats wrong or right
with anything. He is a mess and the his presidency couldn’t have come at
a worse time. America and the rest of the world does not have this four
years to play with. Pull your head out iof whatever ass you are
sticking in to hide from the frightening truth. This show of ignorance
and stupidity are the result of the ‘Keep Americans Stupid and Full of
Pride’ campaign that has been being waged on the citizens of the USA by
its government nonstop starting with the war on drugs profit race. What
are you proud of today, America? This is just fucking embarrassing.”
Not cool to be toppling statues I'd rather government put plaques up next to them pointing out what the statues represent !
I agree, and many of them do actually do have plaques telling the history...but but "racism" 200 years ago...
maybe the berlin wall should have stayed up, just add a few doors and graffiti some unicorns on it.
False equivalency
how so?
you don't need to keep monuments up that incite racism and hate. put it in a museum if you wish to remind people who want to pay to be reminded. I live in Winnipeg, where we have the Canadian Museum for Human Rights. It's a fucking depressing place, but it reminds you of the horrors of what was done in the past. that is necessary.
what isn't necessary is leaving something in public view for people to worship hate and reinforce their shitty beliefs.
Hey, I'm with you. I'm a bit of a historian and would much rather historical artifacts be placed in a museum or something...but no, anger anger hulk smash!
but that's not how it started.
-public pressure convinces political leaders to evaluate confederate flags and statues/monuments -racists protest their right to "honour their history" (AKA: worship racists in public) -THIS is where the anger comes in. the sheer audacity that in 2017 we are still having this fight. tell me again how long ago the civil war was? you don't think this anger is justified?
The anger, yes, the actions...no. There is a difference.
of course there is. I don't condone violence on either side unless it is self-defense. I just saw a video of an angry mob taking down a confederate statue, and at least one guy started kicking it. I don't agree with that at all. Due process. Do it the right way, legally. Doing it the wrong way just gives credence to the other side's message.
Exactly! That is the point I've been trying to make all along. Why is this concept so hard for people to understand.
People have understood what you were trying to say. It was the delivery of the message that people took exception to (seemed to be suggesting something else).
Perhaps, I feel like "some" merely jump to conclusions and get defensive when anything remotely critical of left wing ideology or practices comes to play. They then resort to calling you a Nazi and twisting words in an attempt to demonize. It's par for the norm in these parts though.
I really miss the sweat cover beast in the back named Dave! Hi Dave Imagine he and Ed on a solo anti-trump tour?
Abbruzzese shot back, “Jeff… on behalf of myself and Peg, Please shut
up. Please. I’m sick of it. Whatever you say, I dont give a shit. Donald
Trump is a poor choice to lead any country. He isnt qualified to be in
the position he is in. Anyone that thinks otherwise is just trying to
survive without a crippling panic attack. He isnt whats wrong or right
with anything. He is a mess and the his presidency couldn’t have come at
a worse time. America and the rest of the world does not have this four
years to play with. Pull your head out iof whatever ass you are
sticking in to hide from the frightening truth. This show of ignorance
and stupidity are the result of the ‘Keep Americans Stupid and Full of
Pride’ campaign that has been being waged on the citizens of the USA by
its government nonstop starting with the war on drugs profit race. What
are you proud of today, America? This is just fucking embarrassing.”
I really miss the sweat cover beast in the back named Dave! Hi Dave Imagine he and Ed on a solo anti-trump tour?
Abbruzzese shot back, “Jeff… on behalf of myself and Peg, Please shut
up. Please. I’m sick of it. Whatever you say, I dont give a shit. Donald
Trump is a poor choice to lead any country. He isnt qualified to be in
the position he is in. Anyone that thinks otherwise is just trying to
survive without a crippling panic attack. He isnt whats wrong or right
with anything. He is a mess and the his presidency couldn’t have come at
a worse time. America and the rest of the world does not have this four
years to play with. Pull your head out iof whatever ass you are
sticking in to hide from the frightening truth. This show of ignorance
and stupidity are the result of the ‘Keep Americans Stupid and Full of
Pride’ campaign that has been being waged on the citizens of the USA by
its government nonstop starting with the war on drugs profit race. What
are you proud of today, America? This is just fucking embarrassing.”
I really miss the sweat cover beast in the back named Dave! Hi Dave Imagine he and Ed on a solo anti-trump tour?
Abbruzzese shot back, “Jeff… on behalf of myself and Peg, Please shut
up. Please. I’m sick of it. Whatever you say, I dont give a shit. Donald
Trump is a poor choice to lead any country. He isnt qualified to be in
the position he is in. Anyone that thinks otherwise is just trying to
survive without a crippling panic attack. He isnt whats wrong or right
with anything. He is a mess and the his presidency couldn’t have come at
a worse time. America and the rest of the world does not have this four
years to play with. Pull your head out iof whatever ass you are
sticking in to hide from the frightening truth. This show of ignorance
and stupidity are the result of the ‘Keep Americans Stupid and Full of
Pride’ campaign that has been being waged on the citizens of the USA by
its government nonstop starting with the war on drugs profit race. What
are you proud of today, America? This is just fucking embarrassing.”
Loath to appear to be admitting a mistake, Trump was reluctant to adjust his remarks. The president had indicated to advisers before his initial statement Saturday that he wanted to stress a need for law and order, which he did. He later expressed anger to those close to him about what he perceived as the media’s unfair assessment of his remarks, believing he had effectively denounced all forms of bigotry, according to outside advisers and White House officials.
Several of Trump’s senior advisers, including new chief of staff John Kelly, had urged him to make a more specific condemnation, warning that the negative story would not go away and that the rising tide of criticism from fellow Republicans on Capitol Hill could endanger his legislative agenda, according to two White House officials.
Popular vote loser of the United States didn’t want or believe he needed to make his second statement actually condemning white supremacists Monday. tRump does not see what he did wrong the first time and one of the ways his chief of staff tried to convince him to denounce the KKK was to make clear to him that going soft on unbridled bigotry was bad politically for him. Kelly played to the president’s profound selfishness in reminding tRump that he personally would lose something—his “agenda” —if he didn’t do more to condemn the historical and ongoing scourge of white supremacist violence and intimidation.
Sad.
WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020AT 07/07/2020
Not cool to be toppling statues I'd rather government put plaques up next to them pointing out what the statues represent !
I agree, and many of them do actually do have plaques telling the history...but but "racism" 200 years ago...
maybe the berlin wall should have stayed up, just add a few doors and graffiti some unicorns on it.
False equivalency
how so?
you don't need to keep monuments up that incite racism and hate. put it in a museum if you wish to remind people who want to pay to be reminded. I live in Winnipeg, where we have the Canadian Museum for Human Rights. It's a fucking depressing place, but it reminds you of the horrors of what was done in the past. that is necessary.
what isn't necessary is leaving something in public view for people to worship hate and reinforce their shitty beliefs.
Honestly, I'm okay with leaving reminders of horrific days in public places, so long as there are opportunities to learn and not mistake them as current thoughts. In Spain to this day there are monuments identifying massacres relating to the Spanish Inquisition, with numbers of deceased and plaques explaining exactly what transpired, and usually a message of never forgetting. Also in Berlin, there's an infamous memorial to the murdered right in the city.
Much to the chagrin of my Jewish friends and family, I have no problem with someone carrying a swastika through the streets, because I am obligated not to have a problem with it, in the interest of promoting freedom of speech, freedom of expression, freedom of assembly. Fight ideas with better ideas, and teach about truth, honesty, and equality.
The more you ask someone to submit to their will, the more their ideas will fester - and with the ease of finding like-minded people to assemble thanks to the internet, that festering can lead to devastating and harmful results. I personally think it's better to ask people not to be afraid of sharing their true thoughts, and educating them on why their thoughts are incorrect. This is the only way to kill those deep-rooted notions of inequality.
Not cool to be toppling statues I'd rather government put plaques up next to them pointing out what the statues represent !
I agree, and many of them do actually do have plaques telling the history...but but "racism" 200 years ago...
maybe the berlin wall should have stayed up, just add a few doors and graffiti some unicorns on it.
False equivalency
how so?
you don't need to keep monuments up that incite racism and hate. put it in a museum if you wish to remind people who want to pay to be reminded. I live in Winnipeg, where we have the Canadian Museum for Human Rights. It's a fucking depressing place, but it reminds you of the horrors of what was done in the past. that is necessary.
what isn't necessary is leaving something in public view for people to worship hate and reinforce their shitty beliefs.
Hey, I'm with you. I'm a bit of a historian and would much rather historical artifacts be placed in a museum or something...but no, anger anger hulk smash!
but that's not how it started.
-public pressure convinces political leaders to evaluate confederate flags and statues/monuments -racists protest their right to "honour their history" (AKA: worship racists in public) -THIS is where the anger comes in. the sheer audacity that in 2017 we are still having this fight. tell me again how long ago the civil war was? you don't think this anger is justified?
The anger, yes, the actions...no. There is a difference.
of course there is. I don't condone violence on either side unless it is self-defense. I just saw a video of an angry mob taking down a confederate statue, and at least one guy started kicking it. I don't agree with that at all. Due process. Do it the right way, legally. Doing it the wrong way just gives credence to the other side's message.
Exactly! That is the point I've been trying to make all along. Why is this concept so hard for people to understand.
People have understood what you were trying to say. It was the delivery of the message that people took exception to (seemed to be suggesting something else).
Perhaps, I feel like "some" merely jump to conclusions and get defensive when anything remotely critical of left wing ideology or practices comes to play. They then resort to calling you a Nazi and twisting words in an attempt to demonize. It's par for the norm in these parts though.
Same as suggesting every liberal is an angry antifa idiot.
I really miss the sweat cover beast in the back named Dave! Hi Dave Imagine he and Ed on a solo anti-trump tour?
Abbruzzese shot back, “Jeff… on behalf of myself and Peg, Please shut
up. Please. I’m sick of it. Whatever you say, I dont give a shit. Donald
Trump is a poor choice to lead any country. He isnt qualified to be in
the position he is in. Anyone that thinks otherwise is just trying to
survive without a crippling panic attack. He isnt whats wrong or right
with anything. He is a mess and the his presidency couldn’t have come at
a worse time. America and the rest of the world does not have this four
years to play with. Pull your head out iof whatever ass you are
sticking in to hide from the frightening truth. This show of ignorance
and stupidity are the result of the ‘Keep Americans Stupid and Full of
Pride’ campaign that has been being waged on the citizens of the USA by
its government nonstop starting with the war on drugs profit race. What
are you proud of today, America? This is just fucking embarrassing.”
Not cool to be toppling statues I'd rather government put plaques up next to them pointing out what the statues represent !
I agree, and many of them do actually do have plaques telling the history...but but "racism" 200 years ago...
maybe the berlin wall should have stayed up, just add a few doors and graffiti some unicorns on it.
False equivalency
how so?
you don't need to keep monuments up that incite racism and hate. put it in a museum if you wish to remind people who want to pay to be reminded. I live in Winnipeg, where we have the Canadian Museum for Human Rights. It's a fucking depressing place, but it reminds you of the horrors of what was done in the past. that is necessary.
what isn't necessary is leaving something in public view for people to worship hate and reinforce their shitty beliefs.
Hey, I'm with you. I'm a bit of a historian and would much rather historical artifacts be placed in a museum or something...but no, anger anger hulk smash!
but that's not how it started.
-public pressure convinces political leaders to evaluate confederate flags and statues/monuments -racists protest their right to "honour their history" (AKA: worship racists in public) -THIS is where the anger comes in. the sheer audacity that in 2017 we are still having this fight. tell me again how long ago the civil war was? you don't think this anger is justified?
The anger, yes, the actions...no. There is a difference.
of course there is. I don't condone violence on either side unless it is self-defense. I just saw a video of an angry mob taking down a confederate statue, and at least one guy started kicking it. I don't agree with that at all. Due process. Do it the right way, legally. Doing it the wrong way just gives credence to the other side's message.
Exactly! That is the point I've been trying to make all along. Why is this concept so hard for people to understand.
People have understood what you were trying to say. It was the delivery of the message that people took exception to (seemed to be suggesting something else).
Perhaps, I feel like "some" merely jump to conclusions and get defensive when anything remotely critical of left wing ideology or practices comes to play. They then resort to calling you a Nazi and twisting words in an attempt to demonize. It's par for the norm in these parts though.
Timing might have been a factor.
Left wing/ right wing ideological debate is legitimate, but challenging in the context of a woman protesting Nazis and getting killed by a coward for doing so.
Loath to appear to be admitting a mistake, Trump was reluctant to adjust his remarks. The president had indicated to advisers before his initial statement Saturday that he wanted to stress a need for law and order, which he did. He later expressed anger to those close to him about what he perceived as the media’s unfair assessment of his remarks, believing he had effectively denounced all forms of bigotry, according to outside advisers and White House officials.
Several of Trump’s senior advisers, including new chief of staff John Kelly, had urged him to make a more specific condemnation, warning that the negative story would not go away and that the rising tide of criticism from fellow Republicans on Capitol Hill could endanger his legislative agenda, according to two White House officials.
Popular vote loser of the United States didn’t want or believe he needed to make his second statement actually condemning white supremacists Monday. tRump does not see what he did wrong the first time and one of the ways his chief of staff tried to convince him to denounce the KKK was to make clear to him that going soft on unbridled bigotry was bad politically for him. Kelly played to the president’s profound selfishness in reminding tRump that he personally would lose something—his “agenda” —if he didn’t do more to condemn the historical and ongoing scourge of white supremacist violence and intimidation.
I really miss the sweat cover beast in the back named Dave! Hi Dave Imagine he and Ed on a solo anti-trump tour?
Abbruzzese shot back, “Jeff… on behalf of myself and Peg, Please shut
up. Please. I’m sick of it. Whatever you say, I dont give a shit. Donald
Trump is a poor choice to lead any country. He isnt qualified to be in
the position he is in. Anyone that thinks otherwise is just trying to
survive without a crippling panic attack. He isnt whats wrong or right
with anything. He is a mess and the his presidency couldn’t have come at
a worse time. America and the rest of the world does not have this four
years to play with. Pull your head out iof whatever ass you are
sticking in to hide from the frightening truth. This show of ignorance
and stupidity are the result of the ‘Keep Americans Stupid and Full of
Pride’ campaign that has been being waged on the citizens of the USA by
its government nonstop starting with the war on drugs profit race. What
are you proud of today, America? This is just fucking embarrassing.”
I really miss the sweat cover beast in the back named Dave! Hi Dave Imagine he and Ed on a solo anti-trump tour?
Abbruzzese shot back, “Jeff… on behalf of myself and Peg, Please shut
up. Please. I’m sick of it. Whatever you say, I dont give a shit. Donald
Trump is a poor choice to lead any country. He isnt qualified to be in
the position he is in. Anyone that thinks otherwise is just trying to
survive without a crippling panic attack. He isnt whats wrong or right
with anything. He is a mess and the his presidency couldn’t have come at
a worse time. America and the rest of the world does not have this four
years to play with. Pull your head out iof whatever ass you are
sticking in to hide from the frightening truth. This show of ignorance
and stupidity are the result of the ‘Keep Americans Stupid and Full of
Pride’ campaign that has been being waged on the citizens of the USA by
its government nonstop starting with the war on drugs profit race. What
are you proud of today, America? This is just fucking embarrassing.”
add in Flea on bass and you have yourself a winner.
Tom Morello be my choice on bass but I'm okay with the Dave and Ed show.
Tom Morello?
yes...
On bass?......YES
Guitar.
yes...bass guitar. Tom Morello. prefer the Dave and Ed acoustic show thou. they should come together and unite for the common cause against trump. No confederate state shows thou, these are for yankees only. it has the potential to be awesome.
Comments
Much to the chagrin of my Jewish friends and family, I have no problem with someone carrying a swastika through the streets, because I am obligated not to have a problem with it, in the interest of promoting freedom of speech, freedom of expression, freedom of assembly. Fight ideas with better ideas, and teach about truth, honesty, and equality.
The more you ask someone to submit to their will, the more their ideas will fester - and with the ease of finding like-minded people to assemble thanks to the internet, that festering can lead to devastating and harmful results. I personally think it's better to ask people not to be afraid of sharing their true thoughts, and educating them on why their thoughts are incorrect. This is the only way to kill those deep-rooted notions of inequality.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
personal expression and public monuments to me are a whole different story. I agree wholeheartedly that if someone wants to walk through the streets showing the world their backward views, all the better. but allowing these people to walk by a monument and admiring a slave-defender in secret is what bothers me.
I love the fact that all these shitheads are being outed on twitter. their lives are being ruined. and they are all crying about it. "that's not the real me! you are taking my angry facial expression holding a torch at a white supremacist rally out of context!". Sure, buddy, sure.
www.headstonesband.com
-public pressure convinces political leaders to evaluate confederate flags and statues/monuments
-racists protest their right to "honour their history" (AKA: worship racists in public)
-THIS is where the anger comes in. the sheer audacity that in 2017 we are still having this fight. tell me again how long ago the civil war was? you don't think this anger is justified?
www.headstonesband.com
Someone had countered with he had a history of violence- he had assaulted his mother who is wheelchair bound.
I just wish wish to add that he assaulted his mother because she told him to stop playing video game... so it's not as if he wasn't highly motivated.
Yes. I'm saying he's a shithead.
but where did you pick up anything on automatic weapons? out of 22 minutes of intense video i'm guessing you are concentrating on one 10 second clip in a hotel room?
Given the fact that one of them had already mowed down some pedestrians and some others had punched some women in the face... I think Tiki was saying that nobody was going to smack any of these guys even though it's in unwritten law within the constitution that you can smack nazis given their general offensiveness.
www.headstonesband.com
And of course Trump retweets him. Irony is not dead. The President LOVES fake news:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-retweets-crime-stat-by-conspiracy-theorist-who-framed-anti-trump-drug-addict-for-charlottesville?source=TDB&via=FB_Page
What a moron how can anyone look at this fool and say yeah what a great president is beyond comprehension !
Who is saying he is a great President though? Why would he sit there and be attacked liked that with questions that will only get ripped apart and spit back at him in the headlines. He just finished giving a condemnation speech and before he took two steps away from the podium people here were still writhe with anger saying it wasn't good enough. President Trump can't say anything and can not give a right answer in most minds. It was funny when he said "we just had a press conference".
Loath to appear to be admitting a mistake, Trump was reluctant to adjust his remarks. The president had indicated to advisers before his initial statement Saturday that he wanted to stress a need for law and order, which he did. He later expressed anger to those close to him about what he perceived as the media’s unfair assessment of his remarks, believing he had effectively denounced all forms of bigotry, according to outside advisers and White House officials.
Sad.
www.headstonesband.com
Left wing/ right wing ideological debate is legitimate, but challenging in the context of a woman protesting Nazis and getting killed by a coward for doing so.
prefer the Dave and Ed acoustic show thou.
they should come together and unite for the common cause against trump. No confederate state shows thou, these are for yankees only. it has the potential to be awesome.