Canadian Politics Redux

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  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 938
    Well the liberals will likely be trounced and it's between the PC's and NDP ... so I guess if it came right down to it voting the liberals would be be a better choice...that's not happening...PJ_Soul said:
    whoever wins the election is only going to be a stop gap and hopefully in 4 years Ontario will have better candidates...If the ontario election is the most important of her lifetime then she needs a life.  No matter who wins the sun will still rise Friday...
    That's dismissive. Sometimes just one election really can completely change the trajectory of a province's or country's path in a really big and meaningful way, for better or worse (yes, the Trump election was one of those for the US IMO). It actually happens all the time (It certainly did in BC - when the BC Libs won all those years ago and kept power for 16 years, that absolutely changed BC is huge ways forever). Obviously she feels that this Ontario election is one of those, and that's a valid viewpoint for her at the moment, obviously. She clearly has a life.

    LMFAO
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 7,449
    Well the liberals will likely be trounced and it's between the PC's and NDP ... so I guess if it came right down to it voting the liberals would be be a better choice...that's not happening...PJ_Soul said:
    whoever wins the election is only going to be a stop gap and hopefully in 4 years Ontario will have better candidates...If the ontario election is the most important of her lifetime then she needs a life.  No matter who wins the sun will still rise Friday...
    That's dismissive. Sometimes just one election really can completely change the trajectory of a province's or country's path in a really big and meaningful way, for better or worse (yes, the Trump election was one of those for the US IMO). It actually happens all the time (It certainly did in BC - when the BC Libs won all those years ago and kept power for 16 years, that absolutely changed BC is huge ways forever). Obviously she feels that this Ontario election is one of those, and that's a valid viewpoint for her at the moment, obviously. She clearly has a life.

    LMFAO
    What’s funny is that you think Naomi Klein needs to get a life. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 6,017
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    whoever wins the election is only going to be a stop gap and hopefully in 4 years Ontario will have better candidates...If the ontario election is the most important of her lifetime then she needs a life.  No matter who wins the sun will still rise Friday...
    That's dismissive. Sometimes just one election really can completely change the trajectory of a province's or country's path in a really big and meaningful way, for better or worse (yes, the Trump election was one of those for the US IMO). It actually happens all the time (It certainly did in BC - when the BC Libs won all those years ago and kept power for 16 years, that absolutely changed BC is huge ways forever). Obviously she feels that this Ontario election is one of those, and that's a valid viewpoint for her at the moment, obviously. She clearly has a life.

    It's kind of like saying, "Hey. Yes. I know he's a tool, but let's just give it a shot and see honit plays out. We can always fix things later!"
    Yes. And saying that ignores the fact that it is WAY harder to fix things later than it is to fuck everything up in the first place.
    hmmmmm.....were we not on opposite sides of this conversation just a few pages back, in regards to legalization?  And you were calling my expectations unreasonable, and spoiled?  lol

  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 14,323
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    whoever wins the election is only going to be a stop gap and hopefully in 4 years Ontario will have better candidates...If the ontario election is the most important of her lifetime then she needs a life.  No matter who wins the sun will still rise Friday...
    That's dismissive. Sometimes just one election really can completely change the trajectory of a province's or country's path in a really big and meaningful way, for better or worse (yes, the Trump election was one of those for the US IMO). It actually happens all the time (It certainly did in BC - when the BC Libs won all those years ago and kept power for 16 years, that absolutely changed BC is huge ways forever). Obviously she feels that this Ontario election is one of those, and that's a valid viewpoint for her at the moment, obviously. She clearly has a life.

    It's kind of like saying, "Hey. Yes. I know he's a tool, but let's just give it a shot and see honit plays out. We can always fix things later!"
    Yes. And saying that ignores the fact that it is WAY harder to fix things later than it is to fuck everything up in the first place.
    hmmmmm.....were we not on opposite sides of this conversation just a few pages back, in regards to legalization?  And you were calling my expectations unreasonable, and spoiled?  lol

    one piece of legislation that is inevitibly going to have growing pains is not the same as being in charge of an entire province. 
  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 6,017
    That's pretty obvious....but it's the exact same premise.  
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 40,651
    edited June 7
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    whoever wins the election is only going to be a stop gap and hopefully in 4 years Ontario will have better candidates...If the ontario election is the most important of her lifetime then she needs a life.  No matter who wins the sun will still rise Friday...
    That's dismissive. Sometimes just one election really can completely change the trajectory of a province's or country's path in a really big and meaningful way, for better or worse (yes, the Trump election was one of those for the US IMO). It actually happens all the time (It certainly did in BC - when the BC Libs won all those years ago and kept power for 16 years, that absolutely changed BC is huge ways forever). Obviously she feels that this Ontario election is one of those, and that's a valid viewpoint for her at the moment, obviously. She clearly has a life.

    It's kind of like saying, "Hey. Yes. I know he's a tool, but let's just give it a shot and see honit plays out. We can always fix things later!"
    Yes. And saying that ignores the fact that it is WAY harder to fix things later than it is to fuck everything up in the first place.
    hmmmmm.....were we not on opposite sides of this conversation just a few pages back, in regards to legalization?  And you were calling my expectations unreasonable, and spoiled?  lol

    I don't think this conversation applies to legalization at all - I don't believe there is any other way to deal with legalization (in the real world). Also, something brand new and having it evolve over time isn't anything close to the same as a provincial government fucking up a bunch of stuff.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 40,651
    That's pretty obvious....but it's the exact same premise.  
    I know you're too smart to think in blanket terms like that.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 6,017
    edited June 7
    lol.  Ok.  There is no parallel.  When it comes to general statements about government, it is way harder to fix 'things'...but when we talk about those specific 'things'...it's to be expected and no big deal. 
    All I was saying before was that complacency with the laws, because they're new, is a mistake - I agree with what you say about it being difficult to fix 'things' after the fact.   
    On the leglaization note....Edmonton's committee has proposed the most liberal civil laws in the country.  If it passes, we will be allowed to smoke in public - parks, sidewalks, designated areas at festivals  etc....shocked, and happy :) 
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 40,651
    edited June 7
    lol.  Ok.  There is no parallel.  When it comes to general statements about government, it is way harder to fix 'things'...but when we talk about those specific 'things'...it's to be expected and no big deal. 
    All I was saying before was that complacency with the laws, because they're new, is a mistake - I agree with what you say about it being difficult to fix 'things' after the fact.   
    On the leglaization note....Edmonton's committee has proposed the most liberal civil laws in the country.  If it passes, we will be allowed to smoke in public - parks, sidewalks, designated areas at festivals  etc....shocked, and happy :) 
    Not 'things'. Legalization. IN our previous discussion, my views were VERY specific to legalization, and could not be applied to any other 'thing' at all.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 6,017
    PJ_Soul said:
    lol.  Ok.  There is no parallel.  When it comes to general statements about government, it is way harder to fix 'things'...but when we talk about those specific 'things'...it's to be expected and no big deal. 
    All I was saying before was that complacency with the laws, because they're new, is a mistake - I agree with what you say about it being difficult to fix 'things' after the fact.   
    On the leglaization note....Edmonton's committee has proposed the most liberal civil laws in the country.  If it passes, we will be allowed to smoke in public - parks, sidewalks, designated areas at festivals  etc....shocked, and happy :) 
    Not 'things'. Legalization. IN our previous discussion, my views were VERY specific to legalization, and could not be applied to any other 'thing' at all.
    You said 'things' in your first post: 'it is WAY harder to fix things later than it is to fuck everything up in the first place'

    So what 'things' are you concerned about it being difficult to fix if Ford wins?  I'm going to guess that incompetently drafted legislation is one of those things?  Like legalization. 

  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 40,651
    edited June 7
    PJ_Soul said:
    lol.  Ok.  There is no parallel.  When it comes to general statements about government, it is way harder to fix 'things'...but when we talk about those specific 'things'...it's to be expected and no big deal. 
    All I was saying before was that complacency with the laws, because they're new, is a mistake - I agree with what you say about it being difficult to fix 'things' after the fact.   
    On the leglaization note....Edmonton's committee has proposed the most liberal civil laws in the country.  If it passes, we will be allowed to smoke in public - parks, sidewalks, designated areas at festivals  etc....shocked, and happy :) 
    Not 'things'. Legalization. IN our previous discussion, my views were VERY specific to legalization, and could not be applied to any other 'thing' at all.
    You said 'things' in your first post: 'it is WAY harder to fix things later than it is to fuck everything up in the first place'

    So what 'things' are you concerned about it being difficult to fix if Ford wins?  I'm going to guess that incompetently drafted legislation is one of those things?  Like legalization. 

    Things in terms of all the potential things Ford could fuck up NOT including legalization. There is no way he could make things worse when it comes to that subject, and making changes to the existing decisions about legalization in Ontario will be easy to change.
    What I'm most worried about with Ford is how he intends to cut taxes all over the place, and the damage that will do to all kinds of social programs, plus the lack of corporate incentive he will bring in terms of environmental responsibility.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 40,651
    edited June 7
    Oh, and also just his huge potential for corruption and a massive shit show that will simply degrade the entire position of government in general. He's a populist, and will perpetuate populist bullshit.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 13,829
    He's made all kinds of promises he simply cannot fulfill: besides tax breaks that would put essential services at significant risk... he's promised $1 beer lol.

    A buck a beer. Hahahahahaha

    He's catering to the simple fools just like Trump did. Trump has rewritten the playbook for getting elected. Don't come  across sounding intelligent or present profound ideas that might mean helping someone... instead... be a jackass and promise idiotic things.

    The idiot vote counts just as much as the informed vote. And there's a ton of idiots.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 6,017
    I totally understand your concerns with Ford.
    What I don't, is why you think cannabis legislation - something that is set in stone until different legislation changes it - is easy to change....but social funding and tax rates - (correct me if I'm wrong) things that are set in annual budgets - are more of a concern to fix after the fact?

    I know cutting these programs/taxes can have massive implications immediately...
    Anyway....I know you're not going to budge.  Just my 2c.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 40,651
    edited June 7
    I think that about legalization specifically because it is not going to be based on things like tax rates and funding. I think it's going to be based on simple common sense factors, which, once people have grown used to weed being legal at all, will not be hugely controversial and extremely partisan questions like taxes and social program funding is. I italicized that sentence up there because that is what my whole point about legalization is really about. I understand why you want things to be more progressive with legalization... But it just isn't realistic right now, before people grow accustomed to what is actually a massive culture shift. Once they do grow accustomed and that massive culture shift has happened, then loosening the restrictions will be like, "duh, no shit we have to change that - no arguments from any side of the floor." That's assuming the public demands it of course, which I assume it will.


    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 7,449
    PC majority. 

    Good luck, Ontario. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 938
    It's a PC Majority ...
  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 6,017
    PJ_Soul said:
    I think that about legalization specifically because it is not going to be based on things like tax rates and funding. I think it's going to be based on simple common sense factors, which, once people have grown used to weed being legal at all, will not be hugely controversial and extremely partisan questions like taxes and social program funding is. I italicized that sentence up there because that is what my whole point about legalization is really about. I understand why you want things to be more progressive with legalization... But it just isn't realistic right now, before people grow accustomed to what is actually a massive culture shift. Once they do grow accustomed and that massive culture shift has happened, then loosening the restrictions will be like, "duh, no shit we have to change that - no arguments from any side of the floor." That's assuming the public demands it of course, which I assume it will.


    I think you’re giving both the average voter and our governments way too much credit.  Time will tell I guess.  
    Man...Ontario with a ford running the show, PC majority...and Alberta with an NDP govt (albeit an Alberta version of one).  What a time to be alive.
  • dignindignin Posts: 6,073
    Ontario is fucked. 

    And Alberta will be fucked by Kenny in the not to distant future.
  • Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 13,829
    It's a PC Majority ...
    Sometimes you get what you ask for. Ontario deserves him.

    I get it though. Buck-a-beer! Done deal!

    Hahahahha
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 938
    Doug Ford's win sends a message to the rest of Canada's politicians — including the Prime Minister

    http://business.financialpost.com/diane-francis/doug-fords-win-sends-a-message-to-the-rest-of-canadas-politicians-including-the-prime-minister

    From the article..."He won because Ontario has lost its way and has been run by leaders who behave like trust fund kids and spend tax dollars with abandon and hand taxpayers the tab."
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 938

    It's a PC Majority ...
    Sometimes you get what you ask for. Ontario deserves him.

    I get it though. Buck-a-beer! Done deal!

    Hahahahha
    You honestly don't not think buck a beer lead to his election do you ... 
  • Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 13,829

    It's a PC Majority ...
    Sometimes you get what you ask for. Ontario deserves him.

    I get it though. Buck-a-beer! Done deal!

    Hahahahha
    You honestly don't not think buck a beer lead to his election do you ... 
    No.

    I think it was the 'ban phones in classrooms' lol.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 938
    Here's the thing with Ontario politics...Kathleen Wynn has resigned as party leader.  The NDP underperformed.  They were projected to get around 55 seats.  You could say Doug Ford got an easier than expected majority.  Why does the NDP leader feel the need to say on?   Why hasn't she stepped down?  The NDP only benefited from the liberal collapse.  I can almost guarantee that the liberals will be back with a leader that aligns closer to the centre and the NDP will be back in 3rd place after the next election if they hand on to Andrea...as a matter of fact Sandra Puppatello says she might run for liberal leadership ... she'd be a good leader.
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 7,449
    Marijuana bill has passed the Senate, with multiple suggested amendments.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/pot-bill-legal-steps-1.4698855
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 326
    Interesting read above for a yank completely unfamiliar with parliamentary politics.

    Reading about heavenly Ontario (huge NY Hip fan here, also...Rush, OLP, Matt Goode, tea party, IME, etc) 

    Tough to see Ontario vote for a "bully and lying" conservative who wants to be judge, jury and executioner, like that Orange A------.

    Plus ca change
    Plus c'est la meme chose


    Enjoy your dollar beers and low taxes Ontario! 
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 938
    Interesting read above for a yank completely unfamiliar with parliamentary politics.

    Reading about heavenly Ontario (huge NY Hip fan here, also...Rush, OLP, Matt Goode, tea party, IME, etc) 

    Tough to see Ontario vote for a "bully and lying" conservative who wants to be judge, jury and executioner, like that Orange A------.

    Plus ca change
    Plus c'est la meme chose


    Enjoy your dollar beers and low taxes Ontario! 
    Please back up your assessment ... 

    We will enjoy the lower taxes, thank you.  Being overly taxed has goy us nowhere.
  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 326
    Interesting read above for a yank completely unfamiliar with parliamentary politics.

    Reading about heavenly Ontario (huge NY Hip fan here, also...Rush, OLP, Matt Goode, tea party, IME, etc) 

    Tough to see Ontario vote for a "bully and lying" conservative who wants to be judge, jury and executioner, like that Orange A------.

    Plus ca change
    Plus c'est la meme chose


    Enjoy your dollar beers and low taxes Ontario! 
    Please back up your assessment ... 

    We will enjoy the lower taxes, thank you.  Being overly taxed has goy us nowhere.


    Do you know how much health insurance, medical and University costs are in the states?

    Hint: it'll lead you straight to bankruptcy.
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 938
    Interesting read above for a yank completely unfamiliar with parliamentary politics.

    Reading about heavenly Ontario (huge NY Hip fan here, also...Rush, OLP, Matt Goode, tea party, IME, etc) 

    Tough to see Ontario vote for a "bully and lying" conservative who wants to be judge, jury and executioner, like that Orange A------.

    Plus ca change
    Plus c'est la meme chose


    Enjoy your dollar beers and low taxes Ontario! 
    Please back up your assessment ... 

    We will enjoy the lower taxes, thank you.  Being overly taxed has goy us nowhere.


    Do you know how much health insurance, medical and University costs are in the states?

    Hint: it'll lead you straight to bankruptcy.
    So you can not back up your assessment that high taxes lead to better health care...let me tell you something, 15 years ago the liberal came to power...immediately they introduced a health tax to supposedly reduce wait times ... 15 years later wait times have no been reduced.

    Why would I care how much medical and university cost in the states???
  • Interesting. Deceit? Deliberate misinformation?

    https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4699763?__twitter_impression=true
    "My brain's a good brain!"
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