Pearl Jam or Taylor Swift?

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  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,644
    edited April 2024
    Evel K said:
    I'm not a fan of Taylor Swift so I don't know her music enough to vote but I have to think someone in her camp had to tell her Pearl Jam's album was dropping the same day.  What do you think?  Did she know and say too bad, or was it just spur of the moment secret double album surprise?
    She announced it on Feb 5 (At the Grammys)

    Pearl Jam announced their release on Feb 12
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Tim Simmons
    Tim Simmons Posts: 10,166
    I didn’t think Taylor Swift owes Pearl Jam a call for a heads up. Now maybe she or her people talked to Beyoncé’ or her people.

  • kmcmanus
    kmcmanus Posts: 903
    Pearl Jam - Dark Matter
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    Evel K said:
    I'm not a fan of Taylor Swift so I don't know her music enough to vote but I have to think someone in her camp had to tell her Pearl Jam's album was dropping the same day.  What do you think?  Did she know and say too bad, or was it just spur of the moment secret double album surprise?
    She announced it on Feb 5 (At the Grammys)

    Pearl Jam announced their release on Feb 12
    This board knew the announcement date in Feb back in November (look at the 2024 tour rumor thread), hard to believe the band hasn’t known 4/19 was the date for longer than that.
    I can’t imagine TS’s people would have given a second’s thought to PJ, they certainly wouldn’t see the band as any kind of competition.
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,644
    Tim Simmons said:
    I didn’t think Taylor Swift owes Pearl Jam a call for a heads up. Now maybe she or her people talked to Beyoncé’ or her people.

    Yeah, they're no Paul McCartney :) 


    Swift surprise-released Evermore, her second full-length album of 2020, last week, but this according to McCartney was planned as to “keep out of each other’s way,” as he told The Howard Stern Show.

    “I did the Rolling Stone cover with Taylor Swift,” he explained “and she just emailed me recently, and she said, ‘I wasn’t telling anyone, but I’ve got another album. And she said, ‘So I was going to put it out on my birthday.’ … And then she said, ‘But I found out you were going to put [yours] out on the 10th. So I moved it to the 18th.’ And then she found out we were coming out on the 18th so she moved back to the 10th. So I mean, you know, people do keep out of each other’s way. It’s a nice thing to do.”



    If Pearl Jam thought they would get Taylor Swift-esque spotlight on them on their release day they could have moved their release when they heard about her releasing on the 19th
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Johnny Abruzzo
    Johnny Abruzzo Philly Posts: 12,525
    Pearl Jam - Dark Matter
    6.6

    https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/taylor-swift-the-tortured-poets-department-the-anthology/
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  • mpedone
    mpedone 540xxx - Manchester, NH Posts: 1,961
    BF25394 said:
    bootleg said:
    BF25394 said:
    bootleg said:
    I tried to listen to a few songs and they really all sounded very similar in style.  Like sleepy teenage poems over some generic music.  I couldn’t imagine listening to 31 of those.  But hey that’s just my taste.  It’s just not for me.
    She's a 35-year-old woman. "Sleepy teenage poems," really? Unless she has suddenly regressed as a songwriter, I find it hard to believe this characterization could be accurate. It reminds me of when a music-snob friend described Eddie Vedder's lyrics as "greeting-card poetry."
    I don’t know if it’s a regression but it is a little childish to be writing a Kim Kardashian diss track at 35 with lyrics that reference  “…push me down the stairs at our school.”  and “..my mother is a saintly woman but she used to say she wished you dead”

    Then with song titles like But Daddy I love Him, and I Can Fix Him.  And then there this gem…

    Truth, dare, spin bottles
    You know how to ball, I know Aristotle
    Brand new, full throttle
    Touch me while your bros play     Grand Theft Auto
    It's true, swear, scouts honor
    You knew what you wanted, and, boy, you got her
    Brand new, full throttle
    You already know, babe

    But besides some cringe lyrics I think over time even the most devoted Swifties will find this collection of songs sonically boring, and all a bit too similar in structure and style.
    In the case of both of these songs, at first listen, they are good reminders of something that people should also keep in mind when listening to Dark Matter, which is that not all songwriting is autobiographical. Taylor Swift and Eddie Vedder are both quite skilled at inventing characters and telling stories about those characters in songs.
    I dunno, pretty sure "No Body, No Crime" is autobiographical - a shocking confession that Taylor eats at Olive Garden, but that you'll never prove it because she hides her tracks so well. Oh, and something about avenging her best friend's murder.

    "I'm a lucky man, to count on both hands the [shows I've done]. Some folks just have one, others they got none..."

    Hartford 10.02.96 | Mansfield 2 09.16.98 | Mansfield 1 08.29.00 | Mansfield 1 07.02.03 | Mansfield 3 07.11.03 | Boston 2 05.25.06 | Tampa 04.11.16 | Fenway 1 08.05.16 | Fenway 2 08.07.16 | Fenway 1 09.02.18 | Fenway 2 09.04.18 | Baltimore 03.28.20 | Hamilton 09.06.22 | Toronto 09.08.22 | Nashville 09.16.22 | St Louis 09.18.22 | Baltimore 09.12.24 | Fenway 1 09.15.24 | Fenway 2 09.17.24

    "He made the deal with the devil, we get to play with him.
    He goes to hell, of course. We're going to heaven."
  • droptheleash9
    droptheleash9 Posts: 1,468
    Pearl Jam - Dark Matter
    PJammin' said:
    jimjam1982 said:
    BF25394 said:
    jimjam1982 said:
    more popular - taylor swift?
    better musically and lyrically? pearl jam

    It's not even debatable. each member of pearl jam has more musical talent then taylor could ever hope to have.  don't confuse popularity, appearance, and performer ability to be the same as musical talent.
    You have a blind spot here if you can't see that Taylor Swift is an incredibly talented performer, musician and songwriter. Sometimes, things are really popular because they're really good. She may not be your speed, but suggesting that she is not talented is not really a credible or defensible take.

    She is a very talented songwriter and performer.  She just isn't on par with legendary musicians talent wise.  Her popularity stems from easy to follow and relatable lyrics, a great singer, and performer.  Not necessarily because of her guitar skills.  Take everything she does and make it instrumental and it just isn't amazing musicianship. 

    I never said she has no talent but her music is very simple.  She can be both incredibly talented and not an all time great musician. You can find numerous articles explaining her music is simple chords and progressions that are often very similar.  she is unable to create different sounds. That doesn't mean she isn't talented....
    Well put. 

    Also, her ideas and marketing are A1. Her merchandise is really good too. She’s doing a lot right. 
    I'd argue she's a better businesswoman than artist...and she's a great artist...
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,887
    Pearl Jam - Dark Matter
    Dark Matter by miles and miles, and I like Taylor Swift.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • YourDirtisMyfood
    YourDirtisMyfood Boston Posts: 4,668
    If you are a concert aficianado and have to be at all the legendary-type of concerts, you HAVE to go to one ERA's tour concert over this year.  I've seen her 5 times, twice during the ERA's tour and it's one of the most fascinating concert experiences I have ever had.  Even if you are just a casual TS fan.  It's not a rock concert like PJ, but it's an experience that you will never forget for real.  Truly unbelievable.
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,887
    Pearl Jam - Dark Matter
    YourDirtisMyfood said:
    If you are a concert aficianado and have to be at all the legendary-type of concerts, you HAVE to go to one ERA's tour concert over this year.  I've seen her 5 times, twice during the ERA's tour and it's one of the most fascinating concert experiences I have ever had.  Even if you are just a casual TS fan.  It's not a rock concert like PJ, but it's an experience that you will never forget for real.  Truly unbelievable.

    I wish I could afford it. Those tickets are so expensive, even with 3-night stands. I will look on the days of the shows to see if some cheap ones pop up, but I'm not holding my breath. TS concerts are a whole different beast compared to other shows, ticket-wise.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Tim Simmons
    Tim Simmons Posts: 10,166
    I have zero doubt she'll tour NA again in 2025. 
  • Tim Simmons
    Tim Simmons Posts: 10,166
    Yes her show is a combination of a rock concert, a Disney World stage show and a Broadway show of all showstoppers. Its something else and very unique.

  • BF25394
    BF25394 Posts: 4,940
    YourDirtisMyfood said:
    If you are a concert aficianado and have to be at all the legendary-type of concerts, you HAVE to go to one ERA's tour concert over this year.  I've seen her 5 times, twice during the ERA's tour and it's one of the most fascinating concert experiences I have ever had.  Even if you are just a casual TS fan.  It's not a rock concert like PJ, but it's an experience that you will never forget for real.  Truly unbelievable.
    I didn't make it to any of the shows. I'm not a fan of stadium shows in general, but I would have gone if someone had offered me a face-value ticket. A friend with whom I've seen many Pearl Jam shows got tickets at face value to one of the SoFi shows through the general onsale, and then the week before the shows, he happened to be at his computer when an email arrived saying that more tickets had been released. He got tickets to a second show at face value. When he told me this, he said something like, "Yeah, I guess I'll go to the second show since [his girlfriend] really wants to go." I was like, "Dude, you don't have to pretend you need your arm twisted to go. I know you want to do. I'm a fan, too. This is a safe space. Because I'll happily take that ticket off your hands if you're really on the fence." Needless to say, he went to both shows (and loved them).

    I've mentioned this here before, but I saw the movie in a 500-seat theater on a Thursday afternoon where I was the only patron. It was glorious. I wish the sound for the Dark Matter listening party had been half as good as the Eras Tour movie in SurroundSound.
    I gather speed from you fucking with me.
  • igotid88
    igotid88 Posts: 28,759
    Pearl Jam - Dark Matter
    So far according to Metacritic.com PJ is at an 83 and Taylor is at 77
    I miss igotid88
  • BF25394
    BF25394 Posts: 4,940
    I read the Paste review and it's interesting because it's scathing but not, as some would assume, written by a hater. I mean, haters gonna hate (hate, hate), but whomever wrote this describes Taylor Swift as a "phenomenal" (italics theirs) songwriter.

    I read a very glowing L.A. Times review that struck me funny because the reviewer just flat-out asserts that this song is about that guy, and that song is about this guy, and another song is about a third guy-- but Swift has never said that any song is about anyone in particular, let alone any of these new songs. It's just a little too confident, not to mention creepy that the writer, a grown man, knows (or thinks he knows) intimate details of Swift's personal life.
    I gather speed from you fucking with me.
  • BF25394
    BF25394 Posts: 4,940
    Bringing this thread full circle, listening today with the full lyrics in front of me for the first time, there is a nonzero chance that "Waiting for Stevie" is about Taylor Swift. "You can be loved by everyone/And not feel, not feel love." "Finds herself in the song/Feels her own voice rising." And especially: "Words follow her down, needs to shake 'em off now, now."
    I gather speed from you fucking with me.
  • YourDirtisMyfood
    YourDirtisMyfood Boston Posts: 4,668
    Taylor does have a song called Hey Stephen from one of her earlier songs about, presumably a previous boyfriend.
  • BF25394
    BF25394 Posts: 4,940
    YourDirtisMyfood said:
    Taylor does have a song called Hey Stephen from one of her earlier songs about, presumably a previous boyfriend.
    Presumably. She also has a song called "Dear John" that people presume is about John Mayer, but the point is that she has never said it's about John Mayer. She also has a song where she mentions people named James, Inez and Betty, and people speculate about whether those are real people she's given pseudonyms or just characters she created. She's not saying.

    I have no doubt she's written songs about prior and/or current relationships. Every artist does. But, for some reason, her love life is dissected endlessly. Some people would say that she lives these relationships out in public and wants people talking about it (see Travis Kelce), but she had a five- or six-year relationship before that with Joe Alwyn where they were as off the radar as someone as famous as she is can be. A lot of what people think they know about her personal life is based on other people speculating about it, not her actually talking about it. I think it's pretty lame for a (male) journalist to just assert that songs are about specific people based on his presumed knowledge about her love life.
    I gather speed from you fucking with me.
  • bootlegger10
    bootlegger10 Posts: 16,296
    BF25394 said:
    YourDirtisMyfood said:
    Taylor does have a song called Hey Stephen from one of her earlier songs about, presumably a previous boyfriend.
    Presumably. She also has a song called "Dear John" that people presume is about John Mayer, but the point is that she has never said it's about John Mayer. She also has a song where she mentions people named James, Inez and Betty, and people speculate about whether those are real people she's given pseudonyms or just characters she created. She's not saying.

    I have no doubt she's written songs about prior and/or current relationships. Every artist does. But, for some reason, her love life is dissected endlessly. Some people would say that she lives these relationships out in public and wants people talking about it (see Travis Kelce), but she had a five- or six-year relationship before that with Joe Alwyn where they were as off the radar as someone as famous as she is can be. A lot of what people think they know about her personal life is based on other people speculating about it, not her actually talking about it. I think it's pretty lame for a (male) journalist to just assert that songs are about specific people based on his presumed knowledge about her love life.
    Are you delusional?  Either the songs are about ex-boyfriends or she wants us to assume they are.    I have paid for all of her albums so not some hater. She kisses and tells like no one else.
  • mpedone
    mpedone 540xxx - Manchester, NH Posts: 1,961
    bootlegger10 said:
    BF25394 said:
    YourDirtisMyfood said:
    Taylor does have a song called Hey Stephen from one of her earlier songs about, presumably a previous boyfriend.
    Presumably. She also has a song called "Dear John" that people presume is about John Mayer, but the point is that she has never said it's about John Mayer. She also has a song where she mentions people named James, Inez and Betty, and people speculate about whether those are real people she's given pseudonyms or just characters she created. She's not saying.

    I have no doubt she's written songs about prior and/or current relationships. Every artist does. But, for some reason, her love life is dissected endlessly. Some people would say that she lives these relationships out in public and wants people talking about it (see Travis Kelce), but she had a five- or six-year relationship before that with Joe Alwyn where they were as off the radar as someone as famous as she is can be. A lot of what people think they know about her personal life is based on other people speculating about it, not her actually talking about it. I think it's pretty lame for a (male) journalist to just assert that songs are about specific people based on his presumed knowledge about her love life.
    Are you delusional?  Either the songs are about ex-boyfriends or she wants us to assume they are.    I have paid for all of her albums so not some hater. She kisses and tells like no one else.
    I've always thought that she used those relationships as "jumping off" points for her songs. Take something she felt at the time and amplify it, or even just makes stuff up for the sake of a song (another reason not to say a song is definitely about someone while allowing us to assume it is). "Style" may not be about Harry Styles at all, and might be made up whole-cloth (pun intended), but the title evokes certain imagery/emotion for the listener.
    "I'm a lucky man, to count on both hands the [shows I've done]. Some folks just have one, others they got none..."

    Hartford 10.02.96 | Mansfield 2 09.16.98 | Mansfield 1 08.29.00 | Mansfield 1 07.02.03 | Mansfield 3 07.11.03 | Boston 2 05.25.06 | Tampa 04.11.16 | Fenway 1 08.05.16 | Fenway 2 08.07.16 | Fenway 1 09.02.18 | Fenway 2 09.04.18 | Baltimore 03.28.20 | Hamilton 09.06.22 | Toronto 09.08.22 | Nashville 09.16.22 | St Louis 09.18.22 | Baltimore 09.12.24 | Fenway 1 09.15.24 | Fenway 2 09.17.24

    "He made the deal with the devil, we get to play with him.
    He goes to hell, of course. We're going to heaven."

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