Billie Eilish criticize artists releasing several vinyl variants

I can't find where it says 'collect them all'. Can someone point me to it?

^I like the soundtrack buzzing in your head!

Records are for musical elitists.  It makes them feel like they understand music better than others.  

BF25394 said:

curmudgeoness said:

Does Billie Eilish tour? If so, how does she get to the concert venues? How do her fans get there?

Let's assume that some people will purchase every vinyl color variant. How/is this worse than collecting, say, Zippo lighters, t-shirts, concert posters, beanie babies, baseball cards, rubber bands, Lego sets, velvet Elvis paintings?

So perhaps Spotify or Apple Music is considered more sustainable, because less plastic is involved. Okay -- but what about the manufacturing conditions for our iPhones? What about the carbon footprint involved in transporting those iPhones from China to the consumer? What about the source of the electricity used to charge my iPhone? If I rent or live in an area where solar panels don't make sense, should I refrain from buying laptops, iPads and iPhones because they need electricity? Should I first ensure that my local electric company uses only clean power?

I believe climate change is real and is a real, large problem facing everyone on the planet, whether they like it or not. I put solar panels on my home, I recycle, I own a PHEV and two hybrids. I annoy my husband by turning off every single unnecessary light in the house. But I've also been shamed and scolded for eating almonds because so much water is required to grow them; when I point out that almonds are one of the few foods I can tolerate comfortably, it is suggested that perhaps I should just learn to be hungry. This kind of argument is exhausting and, in my opinion, does little to build support for what really is an important issue.

We all can reduce our carbon footprints. At the same time, life is short, and if a few dozen fanatics decide that they absolutely have to have every vinyl variant, I don't think that's what's going to push the planet past the tipping point.

You posit a false choice between all and nothing.

With respect to the other collectibles, they don't have the same externalities as products derived from fossil fuels. And the colored variant records are truly superfluous. You can wear multiple T-shirts regularly. You can hang multiple posters on the wall. You can build the Lego sets. And you can listen to the record-- but is there really any reason that you would listen to each of multiple records that differ only in color?

I'm not arguing that vinyl variants should be outlawed, but there are valid criticisms to be made for the production of excessive numbers of variants, both from a sustainability standpoint and from a fan-exploitation standpoint.

To go back to a point I made earlier, you can still take small measures. If lots of individuals take small measures, they may add up to a real difference. But even still: I am a vegetarian for primarily ethical reasons. I don't want to contribute to a system that results in the suffering of animals. If the suffering of one cow, chicken, pig or fish was avoided by my not having eaten any meat for the past 13-plus years, that's enough for me to feel like my choice was worthwhile whether anyone else abstains from meat or not. And, yes, you could say, well, you live on land that was at one time wilderness, and the clearing of the wilderness has devastated species throughout the history of civilization, so aren't you participating in a system that resulted in the suffering of animals? And maybe you'd have a point, but it doesn't mean that I should throw up my hands and start eating hamburgers because it's all pointless. I don't try to stop other people from eating meat, although if they ask me why I don't eat it, I'll answer honestly. And I don't try to stop people from buying multiple copies of the same record (although I will often argue bemusedly about how bizarre it is that this once-obsolete technology has enjoyed an inexplicable resurgence).

curmudgeoness said:

BF25394 said:

curmudgeoness said:

Does Billie Eilish tour? If so, how does she get to the concert venues? How do her fans get there?

Let's assume that some people will purchase every vinyl color variant. How/is this worse than collecting, say, Zippo lighters, t-shirts, concert posters, beanie babies, baseball cards, rubber bands, Lego sets, velvet Elvis paintings?

So perhaps Spotify or Apple Music is considered more sustainable, because less plastic is involved. Okay -- but what about the manufacturing conditions for our iPhones? What about the carbon footprint involved in transporting those iPhones from China to the consumer? What about the source of the electricity used to charge my iPhone? If I rent or live in an area where solar panels don't make sense, should I refrain from buying laptops, iPads and iPhones because they need electricity? Should I first ensure that my local electric company uses only clean power?

I believe climate change is real and is a real, large problem facing everyone on the planet, whether they like it or not. I put solar panels on my home, I recycle, I own a PHEV and two hybrids. I annoy my husband by turning off every single unnecessary light in the house. But I've also been shamed and scolded for eating almonds because so much water is required to grow them; when I point out that almonds are one of the few foods I can tolerate comfortably, it is suggested that perhaps I should just learn to be hungry. This kind of argument is exhausting and, in my opinion, does little to build support for what really is an important issue.

We all can reduce our carbon footprints. At the same time, life is short, and if a few dozen fanatics decide that they absolutely have to have every vinyl variant, I don't think that's what's going to push the planet past the tipping point.

You posit a false choice between all and nothing.

With respect to the other collectibles, they don't have the same externalities as products derived from fossil fuels. And the colored variant records are truly superfluous. You can wear multiple T-shirts regularly. You can hang multiple posters on the wall. You can build the Lego sets. And you can listen to the record-- but is there really any reason that you would listen to each of multiple records that differ only in color?

I'm not arguing that vinyl variants should be outlawed, but there are valid criticisms to be made for the production of excessive numbers of variants, both from a sustainability standpoint and from a fan-exploitation standpoint.

To go back to a point I made earlier, you can still take small measures. If lots of individuals take small measures, they may add up to a real difference. But even still: I am a vegetarian for primarily ethical reasons. I don't want to contribute to a system that results in the suffering of animals. If the suffering of one cow, chicken, pig or fish was avoided by my not having eaten any meat for the past 13-plus years, that's enough for me to feel like my choice was worthwhile whether anyone else abstains from meat or not. And, yes, you could say, well, you live on land that was at one time wilderness, and the clearing of the wilderness has devastated species throughout the history of civilization, so aren't you participating in a system that resulted in the suffering of animals? And maybe you'd have a point, but it doesn't mean that I should throw up my hands and start eating hamburgers because it's all pointless. I don't try to stop other people from eating meat, although if they ask me why I don't eat it, I'll answer honestly. And I don't try to stop people from buying multiple copies of the same record (although I will often argue bemusedly about how bizarre it is that this once-obsolete technology has enjoyed an inexplicable resurgence).

Well, I don't own a turntable, so when I look at vinyl variants I only can imagine purchasing the ones that I found attractive and framing them or otherwise displaying them. I can't imagine another reason to purchase multiple versions. I don't do this, and I don't plan to do this. But I think we both know that there are people out there who own unopened Benaroya vinyls because they collect these things for the sake of collecting them. It doesn't make sense to me, but neither do beanie babies, Zippo lighters, etc.

I agree: we all can make small changes. We all should make small changes.  I'm not saying, screw it, let your car idle for an hour so you can sit in a warm or cooled car, etc. But I also don't get taking a stand about LPs and deciding that that's a battle worth fighting. If we go back to food for a minute: I eat very little beef -- maybe 4X/year, no pork. I like (sustainable) fish, but my husband's allergic to fish, so our protein comes from chicken, tofu and dairy.  I've been mindful of meat consumption since childhood, when I learned about the environmental impact of eating meat. But I also train for three hours/day, and I need fuel, and I cannot tolerate peanuts, cashews, etc. So when I look at the various changes we have made, and then someone tears into me for eating almonds, or tells me that it's bad that I run 3000 miles/ year because I go through so many pairs of shoes, I wonder how many changes they have made to their daily routine.

tl;dr: While I agree that we should make changes in our daily lives with an eye to sustainability, I think it is unrealistic to assume that everyone will make all the changes or the same changes that we would make. 

And I don't think we really disagree all that much; why would artists release multiple variants if they did not hope that fans would buy more than one variant? (Or why would Time magazine release four different Taylor Swift covers?) But we also can simply choose not to buy all of them -- or any of them. 

I'm thinking about it from the manufacturing and distribution standpoint, i.e., the choice the artist makes to put these things out there. I'm not assuming that everyone will make the same choices as consumers that I do. My point is that not doing things that bother your conscience is worthwhile whether or not other people make the same choices. And also that we can make a difference in small ways, even if we can't individually eliminate large-scale problems. Our small changes as individuals add up, but also each of us as individuals making small changes will add up to meaningful changes in the aggregate. One person refusing to ride the segregated buses in Montgomery wouldn't have moved the needle. Thousands of people refusing to ride the buses did. Basically, what I'm saying is that the production of superfluous records is the biggest issue this country has faced since segregation and that, by declining to buy these superfluous records, I am today's Rosa Parks. (For the irony-challenged among us, yes, that is a joke. And further, yes, I understand that Rosa Parks didn't make her name by boycotting the buses, but by refusing to change seats to accommodate a white person. And she did a lot more than just that single action to advance the civil-rights movement.)

I will add that the world is complicated and even the most conscientious person will likely have to make certain compromises. I do everything I can to avoid single-use plastics, and I've turned away or refused thousands of plastic bags, straws and cutlery even at the same time that I drive a car whose tires shed microplastics into the environment that are literally everywhere now, including in our tissues and bloodstreams. Does that make me a hypocrite, or just someone who's trying to do what he can but who doesn't always have a realistic alternative choice in every situation?

It is true that Time had multiple Taylor Swift Person-of-the-Year covers, but any conscientious consumer would only buy the one where she's holding her cat. I know I did.

tschav said:

Lol.... ok

Of course, the sad reality is that streaming music is more damaging to the planet than producing vinyl records. Storing and processing downloaded music require vast data centers that use tremendous amounts of resources and energy.