Meanwhile back in Israel

static111 · October 2023

mickeyrat said:

https://twitter.com/ianbremmer/status/1710759811720311107?t=l6jH4vZ5GXwys11mZ1EXfw&s=19

I always wonder why the UN didn't just give Germany to the Israelis, it seems more fitting and like it would have been much easier to protect globally especially coming out of WWII

Lerxst1992 · October 2023

static111 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

static111 said:

Lerxst I think the treatment of the Palestinians by the Israelis is terrorism and has been going on for far too long. I am not surprised that some people are getting fed up enough to mount more successful insurgencies. Is it great that this will lead to more and further bloodshed? No.

As far as comparing this to Natives or saying that all land is occupied, that is hogwash. We know better at this point, arguably we did back then as well. However, just because the US did it in the past doesn't make it right for Israel to do now.

Hey we are gonna force you out of your land, and when you inevitably fight back we are going to take more of your land with our superior fire power in the name of security, and when you fight back again we will call you terrorists etc... What a fucked up carousel.

Israel seized land because of constant invasion from every direction after the Nakba in 1948.

Really 1948? wow. I guess the land was never Israeli before 1948? Or Mick will come in soon and explain what happened four thousand years ago never really happened. Thats three thousand and eight hundred years before the US seized its land. But according to that comment, the US gets a free pass, Australia gets a free pass, Canada gets a free pass , everyone gets a free pass, except Israel. Wonder why. Wonder what makes Israel so different.

We’ve argued this before, except now, Iran has started a war. They are not interested in peace, and if the Dems start talking like this, it probably will get trump elected.

palestine has always been supportive of ethnic cleansing of israelis and never been interested in peace. Today is obviously Iran destroying the Saudi peace talks. Any attempt to deny that is a joke.

Before 1948 the land was Mandatory Palestine and part of the Great Britain's colonial empire. Now I'm unclear where the US and Australia or Canada for that matter get a free pass. I think we can all agree that what was done in the past should not ever be repeated, but we have been and are seeing it repeated in Palestine. Israel telling Palestinians to leave so they won't be targeted by the retaliation well where are they supposed to go?, certainly not to the homes of their ancestors, or even living dependents if they don't want to be slaughtered. People literally had homes and land taken from them for over 50 years and are expected to be docile.

As for your earlier myth about natives deciding to peacefully coexist with European conquerers, I'm pretty sure Custer and thousands of others that fell to native resistance would beg to differ. Or was Native American resistance just terrorism and a wish for ethic cleansing in your mind? Coexisting only happened once military superiority and the white mans boundless cruelty were well established.

The foundational events of the Nakba took place during and shortly after the 1948 Palestine war, including 78% of Mandatory Palestine being declared as Israel, the expulsion and flight of 700,000 Palestinians, the related depopulation and destruction of over 500 Palestinian villages by Zionist militias and subsequent geographical erasure, the denial of the Palestinian right of return, the creation of permanent Palestinian refugees and the "shattering of Palestinian society".[9][10][11][12] The expulsion of the Palestinians has since been described by some historians as ethnic cleansing.

How many unarmed Palestinians have been killed trying to return home? But sure it all must be anti-semitism as you are seemingly trying to infer. Anytime something like this happens it is wrong and no one gets a pass. The founding fathers gave themselves a pass, GB gave Australia a pass after starting a penal colony on aboriginal land, but that don't mean shit if the natives never co signed, just a bunch of legalese.

No one gets a pass. America has an original sin and it isn't slavery. If you can go through life and think this is A ok because the world is just one occupied territory, well that's sad for you. Seeing this continually unfold in real time over my whole life as long as it has is sad.

Israel just keeps penning in the Palestinians and striking with a harder and harder fist after nearly decimating an entire culture.

Wrong is wrong. But please tell me how America and Australia and Canada get a pass and why it's ok to just continue this type of shit in Israel or anywhere else for that matter because previous generations of wealthy white men got away with it.

I'm glad I don't view history through a one way street.

No culture has been decimated or cleaned more than that of the people of Israel. It’s the height of absurdity to suggest otherwise. Had hitter won, these people would have been wiped from the planet. And hitler followed thousands of years or Israelis being forcibly displaced from this very land. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assyrian_captivity. That’s one page of many. The links above are like starting a thousand chapter book on chapter 950.

WWII was the last straw of this four thousand year old story, that’s why the UN put together its Partition Plan, which was met immediately with violence from the Arab nations. No bargaining table no negotiations. That’s how the Arabs have handled this complex process since their “beginning” which is really chapter 950. The Arabs start wars, and don’t like how they end.

Look at what happened in WWII and how the arab states responded to these people cleansed by hitler. That violence is their legacy. They stand for hatred and violence, decade after decade, right from the ashes of Hitlers war.

Regarding Canada, we had a recent topic here, the phrase is literally First Nations, plural , and that doesn’t apply to the Canadian immigrants from Europe. There were other peoples living there who were violently displaced. Australia also has issues with its indigenous populations.

Israel occupies key strategic lands in the West Bank because these lands were used to attack Israeli civilians , including women and children, and were seized when Israel was attacked in the 1967 war. The US, Canada, Australia and many other countries get to keep land won after conflict to try to secure peace , yet Israel does not?

Israel occupies other lands in the West Bank that was theirs thousands of years ago. It’s Sunday, you are free to go to church now in multiple religions and read about this in the Bible.

Israel has a list of peace deals with Arab nations. Todays war is about Iran not liking the Saudi talks and destroying the peace process. Go ahead and support Iran.

josevolution · October 2023

Wait wtf I thought the great Jkushner had brokered peace plan when he was working for mango Mussolini?

Out of My Mind and Time · October 2023

gimmesometruth27 · October 2023

Out of My Mind and Time said:

this is not what happened, but please, continue to make ill informed and stupid posts.

mickeyrat · October 2023

https://twitter.com/GeorgeTakei/status/1711043756483395845?t=JCnKrwhzmbUIIuZ4UAHgRA&s=19

mickeyrat · October 2023

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1711009844545646857?t=ePsYVxHWhPqLhvAp8T2eqQ&s=19

mickeyrat · October 2023

https://twitter.com/AnshelPfeffer/status/1710861402582221223?t=txOEmuATvEWPnwvi8Pe3bw&s=19

josevolution · October 2023

mickeyrat said:

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1711009844545646857?t=ePsYVxHWhPqLhvAp8T2eqQ&s=19

Is that a picture of all the hostages?

brianlux · October 2023

Though written before the current situation in Israel/ Palestine, this strikes me as particularly pertinent:

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2022/03/israels-55-year-occupation-palestinian-territory-apartheid-un-human-rights

“There is today in the Palestinian territory occupied by Israel since 1967 a deeply discriminatory dual legal and political system that privileges the 700,000 Israeli Jewish settlers living in the 300 illegal Israeli settlements in East Jerusalem and the West Bank,” said Michael Lynk, the UN Special Rapporteur for the situation of human rights in the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967.

“Living in the same geographic space, but separated by walls, checkpoints, roads and an entrenched military presence, are more than three million Palestinians, who are without rights, living under an oppressive rule of institutional discrimination and without a path to a genuine Palestinian state that the world has long promised is their right.

“Another two million Palestinians live in Gaza, described regularly as an ‘open-air prison’, without adequate access to power, water or health, with a collapsing economy and with no ability to freely travel to the rest of Palestine or the outside world.”

The Special Rapporteur said that a political regime which so intentionally and clearly prioritizes fundamental political, legal and social rights to one group over another within the same geographic unit on the basis of one’s racial-national-ethnic identity satisfies the international legal definition of apartheid.

nicknyr15 · October 2023

https://nypost.com/2023/10/08/nyc-pro-palestinian-rally-slammed-as-abhorrent-as-hamas-attacks-israel/

brianlux · October 2023

nicknyr15 said:

https://nypost.com/2023/10/08/nyc-pro-palestinian-rally-slammed-as-abhorrent-as-hamas-attacks-israel/

Interesting article, but what are your thoughts on it, Nick?

My own feeling is that any time one group of people attacks another and kills in large numbers is a bad time. I also believe that any time one group of people suppresses and restricts another, a violent reaction will eventually occur. Maybe too simply stated, but that pretty much sums up this situation to me.

nicknyr15 · October 2023

brianlux said:

nicknyr15 said:

https://nypost.com/2023/10/08/nyc-pro-palestinian-rally-slammed-as-abhorrent-as-hamas-attacks-israel/

Interesting article, but what are your thoughts on it, Nick?

My own feeling is that any time one group of people attacks another and kills in large numbers is a bad time. I also believe that any time one group of people suppresses and restricts another, a violent reaction will eventually occur. Maybe too simply stated, but that pretty much sums up this situation to me.

I’m not going to act like I know enough about the history to have an opinion but you pretty much summed up how I feel.

brianlux · October 2023

nicknyr15 said:

brianlux said:

nicknyr15 said:

https://nypost.com/2023/10/08/nyc-pro-palestinian-rally-slammed-as-abhorrent-as-hamas-attacks-israel/

Interesting article, but what are your thoughts on it, Nick?

My own feeling is that any time one group of people attacks another and kills in large numbers is a bad time. I also believe that any time one group of people suppresses and restricts another, a violent reaction will eventually occur. Maybe too simply stated, but that pretty much sums up this situation to me.

I’m not going to act like I know enough about the history to have an opinion but you pretty much summed up how I feel.

Oh man, how many people do when it comes to Israel/Palestine and the Middle East in general? I find the history- particularly post WWII- to be hugely complex and convoluted. I'm certainly not one to claim to have a clear understanding of what's going on. One thing I can say almost for certain though, it must be hell for a lot of people in that region who just want to go on with day to day life. I can't even begin to imagine what hell it must be to live there.

mickeyrat · October 2023

josevolution said:

mickeyrat said:

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1711009844545646857?t=ePsYVxHWhPqLhvAp8T2eqQ&s=19

Is that a picture of all the hostages?

guessing its a picture from the festival before shit went iff.