Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Speaking of which, what do you call it when a couple of mass graves are found in Gaza outside of a hospital?
You mean the mass graves that the Palestinians dug and buried the bodies in? Yeah the constant anti-semitism in this thread is disgusting. @Sea needs to come and lock this thread
Take a look at the two ATM topics, one of which being Russia and the other Ukraine. Over the last three months, zero comments. Zero. The only items posted are news articles.
Look at this page alone above. Tons of comments and direct criticism of Israel. Not saying that some of it might be warranted, but They didn’t start this war. Let the whataboutism begin.
How about all the lying and violence on American college campuses by the pro Palestinian people? How could you even possibly “free Palestine” when it’s an authoritarian state?
Also, let’s ask our friends, where was all the outrage with the Syria war? Did we even have a meanwhile back in Syria thread? Maybe one day they’ll see the antisemitism. I wouldn’t put any money on it .
I can't believe some of this needs to be explained but here goes:
1. What does the amount of discussion of other world conflicts have to do with being critical of Israel and its policies? Does being critical of Israel equate to anti-semitism? Can you only criticize Israel if you have first criticized Russia, Syria, Iran, China, US, France, North Korea, etc. first?
2. They didn't start the war and were what happened was horrible. Many believe so. However, when does the bloodlust end? When and at what cost is victory declared? What does that look like? You can't say and neither can or will Bibi and his government. The Israeli response has long ago shifted from a war of self-defense, Ukraine/Russia, and become a war of retribution and collective punishment of innocent civilians, mostly woman and children. Do you disagree? If so, why? When does Israel declare victory and withdraw?
3. Speaking of Russia and Syria, maybe the lack of comments and criticism is that some of us see them for the autocratic, brutal regimes that they are and are not surprised versus the declared "only democracy in the Middle East" acting more like an autocratic brutal regime, paid for with $4B per year in US tax dollars. Seems to some of us that Bibi is playing by "Hama Rules" and if you're not familiar, here's some info: . He came from the Alawi minority, a heterodox Shia sect that had long been persecuted in Syria and was elevated to privileged positions under the post–World War I French mandate.
In February 1982, Hafez al-Assad ordered the military to put down a Muslim Brotherhood uprising in the city of Hama with brute force. Syrian forces killed more than twenty-five thousand people there. For the regime’s opponents, Hama would become a rallying cry in 2011. For the regime, it provided Hafez’s son and successor, Bashar, with a template for responding to dissent.
Hafez al-Assad seized control from a Baathist military junta in 1970, centralizing power in the presidencyome a rallying cry in 2011. For the regime, it provided Hafez’s son and successor, Bashar, with a template for responding to dissent.
To claim Israel is blameless in what happened and why, and compare it to Russia invading Ukraine is either willful ignorance or denial. You can't expect that Israeli actions from 2006 and the rejection of democratically held elections in Gaza and the West Bank, the exploitation of the rift between the two political parties, Hamas/PLO, Bibi's and Likud's exploitation and funding of same, the long sordid history of illegal settlements and the growth of same, oppressive West Bank policies and brutal conditions in Gaza didn't contribute to what happened. For every action there is a reaction. Seems to me, Bibi's and Likud's strategy backfired. Might have been better to be honest brokers of a peace deal and two state solution?
4. How about the honesty of Jewish voices on US college campuses and what their views are? Or are they anti-semitic as well? Is the author a heretic and should they be cast out of their faith? Here's a few passages that struck me:
That’s because both Jewish and non-Jewish students, inspired by anti-Apartheid protests in Beinecke Plaza decades earlier, had gathered for a hwesrgiael is currently using in its war with Hamas in Gaza. The students were protesting under the Occupy Beinecke coalition, which includes Yale k-long sit-in to demand that Yale divest the portion of its endowment invested in the stocks of military contractors, which make the weapons IJews for Ceasefire, a group of Jewish students dedicated to fighting for a ceasefire in Gaza as well as sustainable peace and equality within the region.
Last semester, I lit Chanukah candles outside Yale President Peter Salovey’s house each night of the holiday, followed by communal singing and praying until the candles finished burning. We were demanding that Yale call for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza and commit to protecting campus free speech after Columbia University banned pro-Palestinian student groups. This semester, students have gathered weekly on Friday afternoons in Beinecke Plaza as Jewish classmates led even more singing and prayer in protest of the war in Gaza.
Throughout this past week, large student groups of many faiths frequently joined in singing “Mi Shebeirach,” the Jewish prayer for healing, and “Olam Chesed Yibaneh,” which calls for building a world where compassion leads. Last Saturday evening, fellow students led those assembled in havdalah, marking the end of Shabbat. And Monday night, students and New Haven residents collaborated to lead the community in a Passover seder — all on Yale’s campus.
These experiences have been deeply meaningful for me, not just on a political level, but also on a fundamentally spiritual one. To see Yale protests once again swept up in accusations of antisemitism denies this experience and invalidates the Jewishness of those calling for an end to the violence in Gaza.
Indeed, Yale Jews for Ceasefire exists because of — not in spite of — our Jewish values. On the issue of divestment, for example, the Talmud teaches us that we may not sell weapons to those we suspect of using them criminally. Therefore, we have a duty to disrupt the manufacture and sale of military weapons that kill others, including those killing Palestinians.
More than 1 million people in Gaza are on the brink of starvation, according to a recent UN report, and aid workers are still reeling after seven World Central Kitchen workers were killed in an Israeli airstrike earlier this month.
On Passover of all holidays, Jews are compelled to feel the suffering of oppressed people. We eat bitter herbs to remind ourselves of the bitterness of slavery in Egypt, and we dip parsley in salt water to symbolize the tears of our ancestors. The story of oppression is all too familiar to the Jewish people — and it is our duty to combat oppression in all its forms, for Jews and non-Jews alike.
5. Perhaps Israel should have worked toward a two state solution rather than play and fund one Palestinian political party off against the other. Maybe working toward reconciliation and a long term solution that isn't about expanding Israeli settlements and denying Palestinians basic human rights would have been the better approach? Maybe accepting the results of legitimate democratically held elections and working through your differences, rather than just rejecting and isolating a whole people would have lead to a better outcome. What is the post-Israeli invasion of Gaza's and the West Bank's political process going to look like now? Democracy is messy but its still democracy and there's an awful lot of hypocrisy and blame to go around (Iran, 1954; Allende in Chile, both US coups of democratically elected governments).
6. There's a ton of criticism and comment on Syria in these very forums. A quick search showed 800+ hits. A poster was even banned for posting the photo of a drowned Syrian refugee child washed up on the beach as their avatar. I don't recall any of the anti-Assad critics being called anti-Alawi religion or anti-Arab or anti-Muslim. I suppose that criticism of Israel and their government's actions gets you called an antisemite?
7. I do not blame the Jewish religion nor its adherents or the Jewish people for the horrors being inflicted upon the innocents of Gaza. I blame the State of Israel, Bibi and the Likud Party. I don't blame nor have I turned my back on my Jewish friends that I grew up with and remain in touch with to this day. I don't blame the synagogue, the Jewish Community Center, the Orthodox School nor the Jewish residents and friends I made in my former neighborhood. I don't blame nor do I boycott the Jewish shops. However, I do, as stated, blame the Israeli government for the policies that have contributed to where we are and the actions of its military.
The US has often acted as Israel is now. Both in response to terror attacks and as a matter of policy (hello Iran, South and Central America, etc.) and I have been critical of those policies, both here and in other ways. Some would call my opposition to the Iraq war and Afghanistan post Osama Bin Laden un-American. So be it.
So, if calling those opposed to Israeli actions in the West Bank and Gaza, regardless of who started it and how long ago this has been occurring, an anti-semite, then I guess I am anti-semitic, just as I am un-American. So be it.
Speaking of which, what do you call it when a couple of mass graves are found in Gaza outside of a hospital?
You mean the mass graves that the Palestinians dug and buried the bodies in? Yeah the constant anti-semitism in this thread is disgusting. @Sea needs to come and lock this thread
Take a look at the two ATM topics, one of which being Russia and the other Ukraine. Over the last three months, zero comments. Zero. The only items posted are news articles.
Look at this page alone above. Tons of comments and direct criticism of Israel. Not saying that some of it might be warranted, but They didn’t start this war. Let the whataboutism begin.
How about all the lying and violence on American college campuses by the pro Palestinian people? How could you even possibly “free Palestine” when it’s an authoritarian state?
Also, let’s ask our friends, where was all the outrage with the Syria war? Did we even have a meanwhile back in Syria thread? Maybe one day they’ll see the antisemitism. I wouldn’t put any money on it .
I can't believe some of this needs to be explained but here goes:
1. What does the amount of discussion of other world conflicts have to do with being critical of Israel and its policies? Does being critical of Israel equate to anti-semitism? Can you only criticize Israel if you have first criticized Russia, Syria, Iran, China, US, France, North Korea, etc. first?
2. They didn't start the war and were what happened was horrible. Many believe so. However, when does the bloodlust end? When and at what cost is victory declared? What does that look like? You can't say and neither can or will Bibi and his government. The Israeli response has long ago shifted from a war of self-defense, Ukraine/Russia, and become a war of retribution and collective punishment of innocent civilians, mostly woman and children. Do you disagree? If so, why? When does Israel declare victory and withdraw?
3. Speaking of Russia and Syria, maybe the lack of comments and criticism is that some of us see them for the autocratic, brutal regimes that they are and are not surprised versus the declared "only democracy in the Middle East" acting more like an autocratic brutal regime, paid for with $4B per year in US tax dollars. Seems to some of us that Bibi is playing by "Hama Rules" and if you're not familiar, here's some info: . He came from the Alawi minority, a heterodox Shia sect that had long been persecuted in Syria and was elevated to privileged positions under the post–World War I French mandate.
In February 1982, Hafez al-Assad ordered the military to put down a Muslim Brotherhood uprising in the city of Hama with brute force. Syrian forces killed more than twenty-five thousand people there. For the regime’s opponents, Hama would become a rallying cry in 2011. For the regime, it provided Hafez’s son and successor, Bashar, with a template for responding to dissent.
Hafez al-Assad seized control from a Baathist military junta in 1970, centralizing power in the presidencyome a rallying cry in 2011. For the regime, it provided Hafez’s son and successor, Bashar, with a template for responding to dissent.
To claim Israel is blameless in what happened and why, and compare it to Russia invading Ukraine is either willful ignorance or denial. You can't expect that Israeli actions from 2006 and the rejection of democratically held elections in Gaza and the West Bank, the exploitation of the rift between the two political parties, Hamas/PLO, Bibi's and Likud's exploitation and funding of same, the long sordid history of illegal settlements and the growth of same, oppressive West Bank policies and brutal conditions in Gaza didn't contribute to what happened. For every action there is a reaction. Seems to me, Bibi's and Likud's strategy backfired. Might have been better to be honest brokers of a peace deal and two state solution?
4. How about the honesty of Jewish voices on US college campuses and what their views are? Or are they anti-semitic as well? Is the author a heretic and should they be cast out of their faith? Here's a few passages that struck me:
That’s because both Jewish and non-Jewish students, inspired by anti-Apartheid protests in Beinecke Plaza decades earlier, had gathered for a hwesrgiael is currently using in its war with Hamas in Gaza. The students were protesting under the Occupy Beinecke coalition, which includes Yale k-long sit-in to demand that Yale divest the portion of its endowment invested in the stocks of military contractors, which make the weapons IJews for Ceasefire, a group of Jewish students dedicated to fighting for a ceasefire in Gaza as well as sustainable peace and equality within the region.
Last semester, I lit Chanukah candles outside Yale President Peter Salovey’s house each night of the holiday, followed by communal singing and praying until the candles finished burning. We were demanding that Yale call for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza and commit to protecting campus free speech after Columbia University banned pro-Palestinian student groups. This semester, students have gathered weekly on Friday afternoons in Beinecke Plaza as Jewish classmates led even more singing and prayer in protest of the war in Gaza.
Throughout this past week, large student groups of many faiths frequently joined in singing “Mi Shebeirach,” the Jewish prayer for healing, and “Olam Chesed Yibaneh,” which calls for building a world where compassion leads. Last Saturday evening, fellow students led those assembled in havdalah, marking the end of Shabbat. And Monday night, students and New Haven residents collaborated to lead the community in a Passover seder — all on Yale’s campus.
These experiences have been deeply meaningful for me, not just on a political level, but also on a fundamentally spiritual one. To see Yale protests once again swept up in accusations of antisemitism denies this experience and invalidates the Jewishness of those calling for an end to the violence in Gaza.
Indeed, Yale Jews for Ceasefire exists because of — not in spite of — our Jewish values. On the issue of divestment, for example, the Talmud teaches us that we may not sell weapons to those we suspect of using them criminally. Therefore, we have a duty to disrupt the manufacture and sale of military weapons that kill others, including those killing Palestinians.
More than 1 million people in Gaza are on the brink of starvation, according to a recent UN report, and aid workers are still reeling after seven World Central Kitchen workers were killed in an Israeli airstrike earlier this month.
On Passover of all holidays, Jews are compelled to feel the suffering of oppressed people. We eat bitter herbs to remind ourselves of the bitterness of slavery in Egypt, and we dip parsley in salt water to symbolize the tears of our ancestors. The story of oppression is all too familiar to the Jewish people — and it is our duty to combat oppression in all its forms, for Jews and non-Jews alike.
5. Perhaps Israel should have worked toward a two state solution rather than play and fund one Palestinian political party off against the other. Maybe working toward reconciliation and a long term solution that isn't about expanding Israeli settlements and denying Palestinians basic human rights would have been the better approach? Maybe accepting the results of legitimate democratically held elections and working through your differences, rather than just rejecting and isolating a whole people would have lead to a better outcome. What is the post-Israeli invasion of Gaza's and the West Bank's political process going to look like now? Democracy is messy but its still democracy and there's an awful lot of hypocrisy and blame to go around (Iran, 1954; Allende in Chile, both US coups of democratically elected governments).
6. There's a ton of criticism and comment on Syria in these very forums. A quick search showed 800+ hits. A poster was even banned for posting the photo of a drowned Syrian refugee child washed up on the beach as their avatar. I don't recall any of the anti-Assad critics being called anti-Alawi religion or anti-Arab or anti-Muslim. I suppose that criticism of Israel and their government's actions gets you called an antisemite?
7. I do not blame the Jewish religion nor its adherents or the Jewish people for the horrors being inflicted upon the innocents of Gaza. I blame the State of Israel, Bibi and the Likud Party. I don't blame nor have I turned my back on my Jewish friends that I grew up with and remain in touch with to this day. I don't blame the synagogue, the Jewish Community Center, the Orthodox School nor the Jewish residents and friends I made in my former neighborhood. I don't blame nor do I boycott the Jewish shops. However, I do, as stated, blame the Israeli government for the policies that have contributed to where we are and the actions of its military.
The US has often acted as Israel is now. Both in response to terror attacks and as a matter of policy (hello Iran, South and Central America, etc.) and I have been critical of those policies, both here and in other ways. Some would call my opposition to the Iraq war and Afghanistan post Osama Bin Laden un-American. So be it.
So, if calling those opposed to Israeli actions in the West Bank and Gaza, regardless of who started it and how long ago this has been occurring, an anti-semite, then I guess I am anti-semitic, just as I am un-American. So be it.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
This is the first time in a long time that there is pushback against Israel that is gaining steam.
In the past if you didn't agree w Israel then you got labeled an Anti-Semite.
I would say that Palestine needs to abolish Hamas if they want to move forward then Israel might listen more?
Palestine will never become a country unfortunately. That will always be a problem. The people are just stuck there then. I don't think any other surrounding country would have them.
This is the first time in a long time that there is pushback against Israel that is gaining steam.
In the past if you didn't agree w Israel then you got labeled an Anti-Semite.
I would say that Palestine needs to abolish Hamas if they want to move forward then Israel might listen more?
Palestine will never become a country unfortunately. That will always be a problem. The people are just stuck there then. I don't think any other surrounding country would have them.
To your last sentence, that has already been proven by the surrounding neighbours. The question you’ll need to answer is, why won’t the neighbours have them?
This is the first time in a long time that there is pushback against Israel that is gaining steam.
In the past if you didn't agree w Israel then you got labeled an Anti-Semite.
I would say that Palestine needs to abolish Hamas if they want to move forward then Israel might listen more?
Palestine will never become a country unfortunately. That will always be a problem. The people are just stuck there then. I don't think any other surrounding country would have them.
To your last sentence, that has already been proven by the surrounding neighbours. The question you’ll need to answer is, why won’t the neighbours have them?
Correct me if I am wrong but I believe it has something to do with accepting Israel as it's own being/country?
I thought that accepting Israel's existence would have Palestine being accepted too but if they do not recognize Israel then Palestinians being part of the state of Israel in turn is not recognized.
Edit: this is to the surrounding countries that would differ with Israel.
This is the first time in a long time that there is pushback against Israel that is gaining steam.
In the past if you didn't agree w Israel then you got labeled an Anti-Semite.
I would say that Palestine needs to abolish Hamas if they want to move forward then Israel might listen more?
Palestine will never become a country unfortunately. That will always be a problem. The people are just stuck there then. I don't think any other surrounding country would have them.
To your last sentence, that has already been proven by the surrounding neighbours. The question you’ll need to answer is, why won’t the neighbours have them?
Correct me if I am wrong but I believe it has something to do with accepting Israel as it's own being/country?
I thought that accepting Israel's existence would have Palestine being accepted too but if they do not recognize Israel then Palestinians being part of the state of Israel in turn is not recognized.
Edit: this is to the surrounding countries that would differ with Israel.
Correct I’m referring to the fact that no other Arab state, country or whatever would let the people of Palestine in throughout majority of this war. You have to ask yourself, why is that? Why does Israel allow people from Palestine to work but the neighbouring Arab areas won’t let them in to avoid the war.
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,011
This is the first time in a long time that there is pushback against Israel that is gaining steam.
In the past if you didn't agree w Israel then you got labeled an Anti-Semite.
I would say that Palestine needs to abolish Hamas if they want to move forward then Israel might listen more?
Palestine will never become a country unfortunately. That will always be a problem. The people are just stuck there then. I don't think any other surrounding country would have them.
To your last sentence, that has already been proven by the surrounding neighbours. The question you’ll need to answer is, why won’t the neighbours have them?
Correct me if I am wrong but I believe it has something to do with accepting Israel as it's own being/country?
I thought that accepting Israel's existence would have Palestine being accepted too but if they do not recognize Israel then Palestinians being part of the state of Israel in turn is not recognized.
Edit: this is to the surrounding countries that would differ with Israel.
Correct I’m referring to the fact that no other Arab state, country or whatever would let the people of Palestine in throughout majority of this war. You have to ask yourself, why is that? Why does Israel allow people from Palestine to work but the neighbouring Arab areas won’t let them in to avoid the war.
Because it's known that once anyone leaves, they would not be allowed to return. The nakba is the guiding history .
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
0
Options
mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,011
this. would add criticizing a goverment, its policies and the actions derived from same is not antisemitic (semites are a broad classification anyway not exclusive) but rather pro-democracy, given said goverment is "the only democratic state in the mideast"
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Speaking of which, what do you call it when a couple of mass graves are found in Gaza outside of a hospital?
You mean the mass graves that the Palestinians dug and buried the bodies in? Yeah the constant anti-semitism in this thread is disgusting. @Sea needs to come and lock this thread
Take a look at the two ATM topics, one of which being Russia and the other Ukraine. Over the last three months, zero comments. Zero. The only items posted are news articles.
Look at this page alone above. Tons of comments and direct criticism of Israel. Not saying that some of it might be warranted, but They didn’t start this war. Let the whataboutism begin.
How about all the lying and violence on American college campuses by the pro Palestinian people? How could you even possibly “free Palestine” when it’s an authoritarian state?
Also, let’s ask our friends, where was all the outrage with the Syria war? Did we even have a meanwhile back in Syria thread? Maybe one day they’ll see the antisemitism. I wouldn’t put any money on it .
I can't believe some of this needs to be explained but here goes:
1. What does the amount of discussion of other world conflicts have to do with being critical of Israel and its policies? Does being critical of Israel equate to anti-semitism? Can you only criticize Israel if you have first criticized Russia, Syria, Iran, China, US, France, North Korea, etc. first?
2. They didn't start the war and were what happened was horrible. Many believe so. However, when does the bloodlust end? When and at what cost is victory declared? What does that look like? You can't say and neither can or will Bibi and his government. The Israeli response has long ago shifted from a war of self-defense, Ukraine/Russia, and become a war of retribution and collective punishment of innocent civilians, mostly woman and children. Do you disagree? If so, why? When does Israel declare victory and withdraw?
3. Speaking of Russia and Syria, maybe the lack of comments and criticism is that some of us see them for the autocratic, brutal regimes that they are and are not surprised versus the declared "only democracy in the Middle East" acting more like an autocratic brutal regime, paid for with $4B per year in US tax dollars. Seems to some of us that Bibi is playing by "Hama Rules" and if you're not familiar, here's some info: . He came from the Alawi minority, a heterodox Shia sect that had long been persecuted in Syria and was elevated to privileged positions under the post–World War I French mandate.
In February 1982, Hafez al-Assad ordered the military to put down a Muslim Brotherhood uprising in the city of Hama with brute force. Syrian forces killed more than twenty-five thousand people there. For the regime’s opponents, Hama would become a rallying cry in 2011. For the regime, it provided Hafez’s son and successor, Bashar, with a template for responding to dissent.
Hafez al-Assad seized control from a Baathist military junta in 1970, centralizing power in the presidencyome a rallying cry in 2011. For the regime, it provided Hafez’s son and successor, Bashar, with a template for responding to dissent.
To claim Israel is blameless in what happened and why, and compare it to Russia invading Ukraine is either willful ignorance or denial. You can't expect that Israeli actions from 2006 and the rejection of democratically held elections in Gaza and the West Bank, the exploitation of the rift between the two political parties, Hamas/PLO, Bibi's and Likud's exploitation and funding of same, the long sordid history of illegal settlements and the growth of same, oppressive West Bank policies and brutal conditions in Gaza didn't contribute to what happened. For every action there is a reaction. Seems to me, Bibi's and Likud's strategy backfired. Might have been better to be honest brokers of a peace deal and two state solution?
4. How about the honesty of Jewish voices on US college campuses and what their views are? Or are they anti-semitic as well? Is the author a heretic and should they be cast out of their faith? Here's a few passages that struck me:
That’s because both Jewish and non-Jewish students, inspired by anti-Apartheid protests in Beinecke Plaza decades earlier, had gathered for a hwesrgiael is currently using in its war with Hamas in Gaza. The students were protesting under the Occupy Beinecke coalition, which includes Yale k-long sit-in to demand that Yale divest the portion of its endowment invested in the stocks of military contractors, which make the weapons IJews for Ceasefire, a group of Jewish students dedicated to fighting for a ceasefire in Gaza as well as sustainable peace and equality within the region.
Last semester, I lit Chanukah candles outside Yale President Peter Salovey’s house each night of the holiday, followed by communal singing and praying until the candles finished burning. We were demanding that Yale call for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza and commit to protecting campus free speech after Columbia University banned pro-Palestinian student groups. This semester, students have gathered weekly on Friday afternoons in Beinecke Plaza as Jewish classmates led even more singing and prayer in protest of the war in Gaza.
Throughout this past week, large student groups of many faiths frequently joined in singing “Mi Shebeirach,” the Jewish prayer for healing, and “Olam Chesed Yibaneh,” which calls for building a world where compassion leads. Last Saturday evening, fellow students led those assembled in havdalah, marking the end of Shabbat. And Monday night, students and New Haven residents collaborated to lead the community in a Passover seder — all on Yale’s campus.
These experiences have been deeply meaningful for me, not just on a political level, but also on a fundamentally spiritual one. To see Yale protests once again swept up in accusations of antisemitism denies this experience and invalidates the Jewishness of those calling for an end to the violence in Gaza.
Indeed, Yale Jews for Ceasefire exists because of — not in spite of — our Jewish values. On the issue of divestment, for example, the Talmud teaches us that we may not sell weapons to those we suspect of using them criminally. Therefore, we have a duty to disrupt the manufacture and sale of military weapons that kill others, including those killing Palestinians.
More than 1 million people in Gaza are on the brink of starvation, according to a recent UN report, and aid workers are still reeling after seven World Central Kitchen workers were killed in an Israeli airstrike earlier this month.
On Passover of all holidays, Jews are compelled to feel the suffering of oppressed people. We eat bitter herbs to remind ourselves of the bitterness of slavery in Egypt, and we dip parsley in salt water to symbolize the tears of our ancestors. The story of oppression is all too familiar to the Jewish people — and it is our duty to combat oppression in all its forms, for Jews and non-Jews alike.
5. Perhaps Israel should have worked toward a two state solution rather than play and fund one Palestinian political party off against the other. Maybe working toward reconciliation and a long term solution that isn't about expanding Israeli settlements and denying Palestinians basic human rights would have been the better approach? Maybe accepting the results of legitimate democratically held elections and working through your differences, rather than just rejecting and isolating a whole people would have lead to a better outcome. What is the post-Israeli invasion of Gaza's and the West Bank's political process going to look like now? Democracy is messy but its still democracy and there's an awful lot of hypocrisy and blame to go around (Iran, 1954; Allende in Chile, both US coups of democratically elected governments).
6. There's a ton of criticism and comment on Syria in these very forums. A quick search showed 800+ hits. A poster was even banned for posting the photo of a drowned Syrian refugee child washed up on the beach as their avatar. I don't recall any of the anti-Assad critics being called anti-Alawi religion or anti-Arab or anti-Muslim. I suppose that criticism of Israel and their government's actions gets you called an antisemite?
7. I do not blame the Jewish religion nor its adherents or the Jewish people for the horrors being inflicted upon the innocents of Gaza. I blame the State of Israel, Bibi and the Likud Party. I don't blame nor have I turned my back on my Jewish friends that I grew up with and remain in touch with to this day. I don't blame the synagogue, the Jewish Community Center, the Orthodox School nor the Jewish residents and friends I made in my former neighborhood. I don't blame nor do I boycott the Jewish shops. However, I do, as stated, blame the Israeli government for the policies that have contributed to where we are and the actions of its military.
The US has often acted as Israel is now. Both in response to terror attacks and as a matter of policy (hello Iran, South and Central America, etc.) and I have been critical of those policies, both here and in other ways. Some would call my opposition to the Iraq war and Afghanistan post Osama Bin Laden un-American. So be it.
So, if calling those opposed to Israeli actions in the West Bank and Gaza, regardless of who started it and how long ago this has been occurring, an anti-semite, then I guess I am anti-semitic, just as I am un-American. So be it.
this. would add criticizing a goverment, its policies and the actions derived from same is not antisemitic (semites are a broad classification anyway not exclusive) but rather pro-democracy, given said goverment is "the only democratic state in the mideast"
the main college protest organizer is Nerdeen Kiswani, a known anti semite. her organization explicitly calls for the complete eradication of Israel, including for Israel to be “wiped off the map”
Many protesters are chanting River to sea, which is antisemitism. Many Jewish students are being blamed and attacked on college campuses. These protests are mostly not peaceful.
There will likely be protests during the democratic convention in Chicago, which will draw comparisons to 1968, when Vietnam protesters made the democrats look unfit to lead, and Nixon won easily . Trump will say the same now, that Biden has lost control of the country. Eight months after this war began, and trump is still leading in the polls.
Speaking of which, what do you call it when a couple of mass graves are found in Gaza outside of a hospital?
You mean the mass graves that the Palestinians dug and buried the bodies in? Yeah the constant anti-semitism in this thread is disgusting. @Sea needs to come and lock this thread
Take a look at the two ATM topics, one of which being Russia and the other Ukraine. Over the last three months, zero comments. Zero. The only items posted are news articles.
Look at this page alone above. Tons of comments and direct criticism of Israel. Not saying that some of it might be warranted, but They didn’t start this war. Let the whataboutism begin.
How about all the lying and violence on American college campuses by the pro Palestinian people? How could you even possibly “free Palestine” when it’s an authoritarian state?
Also, let’s ask our friends, where was all the outrage with the Syria war? Did we even have a meanwhile back in Syria thread? Maybe one day they’ll see the antisemitism. I wouldn’t put any money on it .
I can't believe some of this needs to be explained but here goes:
1. What does the amount of discussion of other world conflicts have to do with being critical of Israel and its policies? Does being critical of Israel equate to anti-semitism? Can you only criticize Israel if you have first criticized Russia, Syria, Iran, China, US, France, North Korea, etc. first?
2. They didn't start the war and were what happened was horrible. Many believe so. However, when does the bloodlust end? When and at what cost is victory declared? What does that look like? You can't say and neither can or will Bibi and his government. The Israeli response has long ago shifted from a war of self-defense, Ukraine/Russia, and become a war of retribution and collective punishment of innocent civilians, mostly woman and children. Do you disagree? If so, why? When does Israel declare victory and withdraw?
3. Speaking of Russia and Syria, maybe the lack of comments and criticism is that some of us see them for the autocratic, brutal regimes that they are and are not surprised versus the declared "only democracy in the Middle East" acting more like an autocratic brutal regime, paid for with $4B per year in US tax dollars. Seems to some of us that Bibi is playing by "Hama Rules" and if you're not familiar, here's some info: . He came from the Alawi minority, a heterodox Shia sect that had long been persecuted in Syria and was elevated to privileged positions under the post–World War I French mandate.
In February 1982, Hafez al-Assad ordered the military to put down a Muslim Brotherhood uprising in the city of Hama with brute force. Syrian forces killed more than twenty-five thousand people there. For the regime’s opponents, Hama would become a rallying cry in 2011. For the regime, it provided Hafez’s son and successor, Bashar, with a template for responding to dissent.
Hafez al-Assad seized control from a Baathist military junta in 1970, centralizing power in the presidencyome a rallying cry in 2011. For the regime, it provided Hafez’s son and successor, Bashar, with a template for responding to dissent.
To claim Israel is blameless in what happened and why, and compare it to Russia invading Ukraine is either willful ignorance or denial. You can't expect that Israeli actions from 2006 and the rejection of democratically held elections in Gaza and the West Bank, the exploitation of the rift between the two political parties, Hamas/PLO, Bibi's and Likud's exploitation and funding of same, the long sordid history of illegal settlements and the growth of same, oppressive West Bank policies and brutal conditions in Gaza didn't contribute to what happened. For every action there is a reaction. Seems to me, Bibi's and Likud's strategy backfired. Might have been better to be honest brokers of a peace deal and two state solution?
4. How about the honesty of Jewish voices on US college campuses and what their views are? Or are they anti-semitic as well? Is the author a heretic and should they be cast out of their faith? Here's a few passages that struck me:
That’s because both Jewish and non-Jewish students, inspired by anti-Apartheid protests in Beinecke Plaza decades earlier, had gathered for a hwesrgiael is currently using in its war with Hamas in Gaza. The students were protesting under the Occupy Beinecke coalition, which includes Yale k-long sit-in to demand that Yale divest the portion of its endowment invested in the stocks of military contractors, which make the weapons IJews for Ceasefire, a group of Jewish students dedicated to fighting for a ceasefire in Gaza as well as sustainable peace and equality within the region.
Last semester, I lit Chanukah candles outside Yale President Peter Salovey’s house each night of the holiday, followed by communal singing and praying until the candles finished burning. We were demanding that Yale call for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza and commit to protecting campus free speech after Columbia University banned pro-Palestinian student groups. This semester, students have gathered weekly on Friday afternoons in Beinecke Plaza as Jewish classmates led even more singing and prayer in protest of the war in Gaza.
Throughout this past week, large student groups of many faiths frequently joined in singing “Mi Shebeirach,” the Jewish prayer for healing, and “Olam Chesed Yibaneh,” which calls for building a world where compassion leads. Last Saturday evening, fellow students led those assembled in havdalah, marking the end of Shabbat. And Monday night, students and New Haven residents collaborated to lead the community in a Passover seder — all on Yale’s campus.
These experiences have been deeply meaningful for me, not just on a political level, but also on a fundamentally spiritual one. To see Yale protests once again swept up in accusations of antisemitism denies this experience and invalidates the Jewishness of those calling for an end to the violence in Gaza.
Indeed, Yale Jews for Ceasefire exists because of — not in spite of — our Jewish values. On the issue of divestment, for example, the Talmud teaches us that we may not sell weapons to those we suspect of using them criminally. Therefore, we have a duty to disrupt the manufacture and sale of military weapons that kill others, including those killing Palestinians.
More than 1 million people in Gaza are on the brink of starvation, according to a recent UN report, and aid workers are still reeling after seven World Central Kitchen workers were killed in an Israeli airstrike earlier this month.
On Passover of all holidays, Jews are compelled to feel the suffering of oppressed people. We eat bitter herbs to remind ourselves of the bitterness of slavery in Egypt, and we dip parsley in salt water to symbolize the tears of our ancestors. The story of oppression is all too familiar to the Jewish people — and it is our duty to combat oppression in all its forms, for Jews and non-Jews alike.
5. Perhaps Israel should have worked toward a two state solution rather than play and fund one Palestinian political party off against the other. Maybe working toward reconciliation and a long term solution that isn't about expanding Israeli settlements and denying Palestinians basic human rights would have been the better approach? Maybe accepting the results of legitimate democratically held elections and working through your differences, rather than just rejecting and isolating a whole people would have lead to a better outcome. What is the post-Israeli invasion of Gaza's and the West Bank's political process going to look like now? Democracy is messy but its still democracy and there's an awful lot of hypocrisy and blame to go around (Iran, 1954; Allende in Chile, both US coups of democratically elected governments).
6. There's a ton of criticism and comment on Syria in these very forums. A quick search showed 800+ hits. A poster was even banned for posting the photo of a drowned Syrian refugee child washed up on the beach as their avatar. I don't recall any of the anti-Assad critics being called anti-Alawi religion or anti-Arab or anti-Muslim. I suppose that criticism of Israel and their government's actions gets you called an antisemite?
7. I do not blame the Jewish religion nor its adherents or the Jewish people for the horrors being inflicted upon the innocents of Gaza. I blame the State of Israel, Bibi and the Likud Party. I don't blame nor have I turned my back on my Jewish friends that I grew up with and remain in touch with to this day. I don't blame the synagogue, the Jewish Community Center, the Orthodox School nor the Jewish residents and friends I made in my former neighborhood. I don't blame nor do I boycott the Jewish shops. However, I do, as stated, blame the Israeli government for the policies that have contributed to where we are and the actions of its military.
The US has often acted as Israel is now. Both in response to terror attacks and as a matter of policy (hello Iran, South and Central America, etc.) and I have been critical of those policies, both here and in other ways. Some would call my opposition to the Iraq war and Afghanistan post Osama Bin Laden un-American. So be it.
So, if calling those opposed to Israeli actions in the West Bank and Gaza, regardless of who started it and how long ago this has been occurring, an anti-semite, then I guess I am anti-semitic, just as I am un-American. So be it.
this. would add criticizing a goverment, its policies and the actions derived from same is not antisemitic (semites are a broad classification anyway not exclusive) but rather pro-democracy, given said goverment is "the only democratic state in the mideast"
the main college protest organizer is Nerdeen Kiswani, a known anti semite. her organization explicitly calls for the complete eradication of Israel, including for Israel to be “wiped off the map”
Many protesters are chanting River to sea, which is antisemitism. Many Jewish students are being blamed and attacked on college campuses. These protests are mostly not peaceful.
There will likely be protests during the democratic convention in Chicago, which will draw comparisons to 1968, when Vietnam protesters made the democrats look unfit to lead, and Nixon won easily . Trump will say the same now, that Biden has lost control of the country. Eight months after this war began, and trump is still leading in the polls.
And while US Palestinian protesters chant “river to the sea,” Israel drops bombs and fires artillery from the river to the sea and formulates plans for the annexation of Gaza. But keep claiming the high ground
This is the first time in a long time that there is pushback against Israel that is gaining steam.
In the past if you didn't agree w Israel then you got labeled an Anti-Semite.
I would say that Palestine needs to abolish Hamas if they want to move forward then Israel might listen more?
Palestine will never become a country unfortunately. That will always be a problem. The people are just stuck there then. I don't think any other surrounding country would have them.
To your last sentence, that has already been proven by the surrounding neighbours. The question you’ll need to answer is, why won’t the neighbours have them?
Correct me if I am wrong but I believe it has something to do with accepting Israel as it's own being/country?
I thought that accepting Israel's existence would have Palestine being accepted too but if they do not recognize Israel then Palestinians being part of the state of Israel in turn is not recognized.
Edit: this is to the surrounding countries that would differ with Israel.
Correct I’m referring to the fact that no other Arab state, country or whatever would let the people of Palestine in throughout majority of this war. You have to ask yourself, why is that? Why does Israel allow people from Palestine to work but the neighbouring Arab areas won’t let them in to avoid the war.
There are literally NO protests occurring in any Arab countries in support of the Palestinians. There is a reason that no Arab country was done anything in support of Palestinians over the last few decades. Yes there are "refugee" camps in Lebanon and Jordan but no Arab country wants them.
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,011
this. would add criticizing a goverment, its policies and the actions derived from same is not antisemitic (semites are a broad classification anyway not exclusive) but rather pro-democracy, given said goverment is "the only democratic state in the mideast"
the main college protest organizer is Nerdeen Kiswani, a known anti semite. her organization explicitly calls for the complete eradication of Israel, including for Israel to be “wiped off the map”
Many protesters are chanting River to sea, which is antisemitism. Many Jewish students are being blamed and attacked on college campuses. These protests are mostly not peaceful.
There will likely be protests during the democratic convention in Chicago, which will draw comparisons to 1968, when Vietnam protesters made the democrats look unfit to lead, and Nixon won easily . Trump will say the same now, that Biden has lost control of the country. Eight months after this war began, and trump is still leading in the polls.
you familiar with the 1st amendment, correct? many disagree with the some of the messaging and manner, but what was false about that specific tweet, stating quite clearly thoughts in general about protests and this topic.
I saw no endorsement of what you describe.
it would appear you fall in the with us or against us mindset camp.
here , I hestitate to truly say what I want but your stance on the innocent civilians , MANY of which werent even born when that bloc was voted in, is abhorent at the least. no human being has any more value over another.
you're free to disagree. it IS still a free country ....
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
This is the first time in a long time that there is pushback against Israel that is gaining steam.
In the past if you didn't agree w Israel then you got labeled an Anti-Semite.
I would say that Palestine needs to abolish Hamas if they want to move forward then Israel might listen more?
Palestine will never become a country unfortunately. That will always be a problem. The people are just stuck there then. I don't think any other surrounding country would have them.
To your last sentence, that has already been proven by the surrounding neighbours. The question you’ll need to answer is, why won’t the neighbours have them?
Correct me if I am wrong but I believe it has something to do with accepting Israel as it's own being/country?
I thought that accepting Israel's existence would have Palestine being accepted too but if they do not recognize Israel then Palestinians being part of the state of Israel in turn is not recognized.
Edit: this is to the surrounding countries that would differ with Israel.
Correct I’m referring to the fact that no other Arab state, country or whatever would let the people of Palestine in throughout majority of this war. You have to ask yourself, why is that? Why does Israel allow people from Palestine to work but the neighbouring Arab areas won’t let them in to avoid the war.
There are literally NO protests occurring in any Arab countries in support of the Palestinians. There is a reason that no Arab country was done anything in support of Palestinians over the last few decades. Yes there are "refugee" camps in Lebanon and Jordan but no Arab country wants them.
I have to ask some questions, because I see this brought up regularly. Whether Arab countries want the Palestinians or not, let's be realistic here:
1. The population is likely riled up, due to Israeli and Palestinian leadership failing the people so regularly. Why would a country without having a role in creating the mess, want to inherit a population who is (reasonably) filled with rage, and trained by their leadership on how to govern through fear and terror? 2. The population is poor and starving: why would a country without having a role in creating the mess, want the financial and social overhead of absorbing this population into their society? 3. The population has a history of, upon leaving, not being permitted to return without concessions. Why would a country without having a role in creating this mess, want to risk helping another nation usurp land from them when there is precedence for exactly this happening? What assurances (if any) have been given that this won't occur? 4. After Israeli air strikes on Rafah crossing, what (if any) good-faith gestures have been shown by Israel that evacuations to Arab countries would even be permitted? Hell, has that even been brought up by Israeli leadership? 5. There's no obligation that individual Muslims take care of Muslims, Christians of Christians, Jews of Jews - so why should it be that Muslim nations take care of Muslim nations, Christians of Christian nations, Jews of Jewish nations? 6. Let's say the previous points were outlandish (I don't think they are). Does anyone in their right mind believe that giving Palestinians a choice between exile and death will lead to a persistent (or even temporary) peace? How about reducing global anti-Semitism? 7. I don't think tempo was implying that it's wrong for the surrounding countries not to take in the Palestinians - just that it's not their damn problem. Do you not see how some might find it outrageous to blame Arab nations' lack of charity for the current (or ongoing) Palestinian situation?
At this point, I have to believe we are all wasting countless hours on something without the will to fix it.
Palestinians don't believe Israel has their best interests in mind, and vice-versa. Both are with historical precedence, because both peoples have a different sense of what the 'first grievance' was, and use that to justify their retaliations. That's a non-starter. Palestinian leaders don't govern free and fair elections. That's a non-starter. Palestinian leaders promote and endorse terror. That's a non-starter. Palestinians aren't granted basic human rights by Israelis. That's a non-starter. Israeli leaders maintain power and win elections through fear and propaganda. That's a non-starter. No coalition in Israel is large enough that a politician can win an election without making concessions to a politically extreme sect (typically oriented around - you guessed it - the Palestinian people). That's a non-starter.
Am I misguided on some part of this to say that all parties have a role in this fucked up situation with no solution in sight?
Post edited by benjs on
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
This is the first time in a long time that there is pushback against Israel that is gaining steam.
In the past if you didn't agree w Israel then you got labeled an Anti-Semite.
I would say that Palestine needs to abolish Hamas if they want to move forward then Israel might listen more?
Palestine will never become a country unfortunately. That will always be a problem. The people are just stuck there then. I don't think any other surrounding country would have them.
To your last sentence, that has already been proven by the surrounding neighbours. The question you’ll need to answer is, why won’t the neighbours have them?
Correct me if I am wrong but I believe it has something to do with accepting Israel as it's own being/country?
I thought that accepting Israel's existence would have Palestine being accepted too but if they do not recognize Israel then Palestinians being part of the state of Israel in turn is not recognized.
Edit: this is to the surrounding countries that would differ with Israel.
Correct I’m referring to the fact that no other Arab state, country or whatever would let the people of Palestine in throughout majority of this war. You have to ask yourself, why is that? Why does Israel allow people from Palestine to work but the neighbouring Arab areas won’t let them in to avoid the war.
There are literally NO protests occurring in any Arab countries in support of the Palestinians. There is a reason that no Arab country was done anything in support of Palestinians over the last few decades. Yes there are "refugee" camps in Lebanon and Jordan but no Arab country wants them.
I have to ask some questions, because I see this brought up regularly. Whether Arab countries want the Palestinians or not, let's be realistic here:
1. The population is likely riled up, due to Israeli and Palestinian leadership failing the people so regularly. Why would a country without having a role in creating the mess, want to inherit a population who is (reasonably) filled with rage, and trained by their leadership on how to govern through fear and terror? 2. The population is poor and starving: why would a country without having a role in creating the mess, want the financial and social overhead of absorbing this population into their society? 3. The population has a history of, upon leaving, not being permitted to return without concessions. Why would a country without having a role in creating this mess, want to risk helping another nation usurp land from them when there is precedence for exactly this happening? What assurances (if any) have been given that this won't occur? 4. After Israeli air strikes on Rafah crossing, what (if any) good-faith gestures have been shown by Israel that evacuations to Arab countries would even be permitted? Hell, has that even been brought up by Israeli leadership? 5. There's no obligation that individual Muslims take care of Muslims, Christians of Christians, Jews of Jews - so why should it be that Muslim nations take care of Muslim nations, Christians of Christian nations, Jews of Jewish nations? 6. Let's say the other four points were outlandish (I don't think they are). Does anyone in their right mind believe that giving Palestinians a choice between exile and death will lead to a persistent (or even temporary) peace? How about reducing global anti-Semitism? 7. I don't think tempo was implying that it's wrong for the surrounding countries not to take in the Palestinians - just that it's not their damn problem. Do you not see how some might find it outrageous to blame Arab nations' lack of charity for the current (or ongoing) Palestinian situation?
At this point, I have to believe we are all wasting countless hours on something without the will to fix it.
Palestinians don't believe Israel has their best interests in mind, and vice-versa. Both are with historical precedence, because both peoples have a different sense of what the 'first grievance' was, and use that to justify their retaliations. That's a non-starter. Palestinian leaders don't govern free and fair elections. That's a non-starter. Palestinian leaders promote and endorse terror. That's a non-starter. Palestinians aren't granted basic human rights by Israelis. That's a non-starter. Israeli leaders maintain power and win elections through fear and propaganda. That's a non-starter. No coalition in Israel is large enough that a politician can win an election without making concessions to a politically extreme sect (typically oriented around - you guessed it - the Palestinian people). That's a non-starter.
Am I misguided on some part of this to say that all parties have a role in this fucked up situation with no solution in sight?
Please ask #2 in the immigration thread! Edit: Palestinians don't believe Israel has their best interests in mind, and vice-versa. Both are with historical precedence, because both peoples have a different sense of what the 'first grievance' was, and use that to justify their retaliations. That's a non-starter.
this. would add criticizing a goverment, its policies and the actions derived from same is not antisemitic (semites are a broad classification anyway not exclusive) but rather pro-democracy, given said goverment is "the only democratic state in the mideast"
the main college protest organizer is Nerdeen Kiswani, a known anti semite. her organization explicitly calls for the complete eradication of Israel, including for Israel to be “wiped off the map”
Many protesters are chanting River to sea, which is antisemitism. Many Jewish students are being blamed and attacked on college campuses. These protests are mostly not peaceful.
There will likely be protests during the democratic convention in Chicago, which will draw comparisons to 1968, when Vietnam protesters made the democrats look unfit to lead, and Nixon won easily . Trump will say the same now, that Biden has lost control of the country. Eight months after this war began, and trump is still leading in the polls.
And while US Palestinian protesters chant “river to the sea,” Israel drops bombs and fires artillery from the river to the sea and formulates plans for the annexation of Gaza. But keep claiming the high ground
If they did not want bombs, the shouldn’t have invaded and murdered innocent Israelis.
this. would add criticizing a goverment, its policies and the actions derived from same is not antisemitic (semites are a broad classification anyway not exclusive) but rather pro-democracy, given said goverment is "the only democratic state in the mideast"
the main college protest organizer is Nerdeen Kiswani, a known anti semite. her organization explicitly calls for the complete eradication of Israel, including for Israel to be “wiped off the map”
Many protesters are chanting River to sea, which is antisemitism. Many Jewish students are being blamed and attacked on college campuses. These protests are mostly not peaceful.
There will likely be protests during the democratic convention in Chicago, which will draw comparisons to 1968, when Vietnam protesters made the democrats look unfit to lead, and Nixon won easily . Trump will say the same now, that Biden has lost control of the country. Eight months after this war began, and trump is still leading in the polls.
And while US Palestinian protesters chant “river to the sea,” Israel drops bombs and fires artillery from the river to the sea and formulates plans for the annexation of Gaza. But keep claiming the high ground
If they did not want bombs, the shouldn’t have invaded and murdered innocent Israelis.
this. would add criticizing a goverment, its policies and the actions derived from same is not antisemitic (semites are a broad classification anyway not exclusive) but rather pro-democracy, given said goverment is "the only democratic state in the mideast"
the main college protest organizer is Nerdeen Kiswani, a known anti semite. her organization explicitly calls for the complete eradication of Israel, including for Israel to be “wiped off the map”
Many protesters are chanting River to sea, which is antisemitism. Many Jewish students are being blamed and attacked on college campuses. These protests are mostly not peaceful.
There will likely be protests during the democratic convention in Chicago, which will draw comparisons to 1968, when Vietnam protesters made the democrats look unfit to lead, and Nixon won easily . Trump will say the same now, that Biden has lost control of the country. Eight months after this war began, and trump is still leading in the polls.
you familiar with the 1st amendment, correct? many disagree with the some of the messaging and manner, but what was false about that specific tweet, stating quite clearly thoughts in general about protests and this topic.
I saw no endorsement of what you describe.
it would appear you fall in the with us or against us mindset camp.
here , I hestitate to truly say what I want but your stance on the innocent civilians , MANY of which werent even born when that bloc was voted in, is abhorent at the least. no human being has any more value over another.
you're free to disagree. it IS still a free country ....
The protesters are breaking the law and deserve to be arrested.
those arrested should be investigated for every dollar received in their support. If any moneys are sourced from Middle East terrorist groups they should be thrown in prison. Let their terrorist ties be on their record and CVs for the rest of their lives.
this. would add criticizing a goverment, its policies and the actions derived from same is not antisemitic (semites are a broad classification anyway not exclusive) but rather pro-democracy, given said goverment is "the only democratic state in the mideast"
the main college protest organizer is Nerdeen Kiswani, a known anti semite. her organization explicitly calls for the complete eradication of Israel, including for Israel to be “wiped off the map”
Many protesters are chanting River to sea, which is antisemitism. Many Jewish students are being blamed and attacked on college campuses. These protests are mostly not peaceful.
There will likely be protests during the democratic convention in Chicago, which will draw comparisons to 1968, when Vietnam protesters made the democrats look unfit to lead, and Nixon won easily . Trump will say the same now, that Biden has lost control of the country. Eight months after this war began, and trump is still leading in the polls.
you familiar with the 1st amendment, correct? many disagree with the some of the messaging and manner, but what was false about that specific tweet, stating quite clearly thoughts in general about protests and this topic.
I saw no endorsement of what you describe.
it would appear you fall in the with us or against us mindset camp.
here , I hestitate to truly say what I want but your stance on the innocent civilians , MANY of which werent even born when that bloc was voted in, is abhorent at the least. no human being has any more value over another.
you're free to disagree. it IS still a free country ....
The protesters are breaking the law and deserve to be arrested.
those arrested should be investigated for every dollar received in their support. If any moneys are sourced from Middle East terrorist groups they should be thrown in prison. Let their terrorist ties be on their record and CVs for the rest of their lives.
Just taking a page from Hillel. You know, the student group funded by Israel to crush any dissent of Israel and pro-Palestinian voices on US college campuses? But they get a pass because they’re righteous, right?
Well, seems Bibi might have a few more things to worry about.
this. would add criticizing a goverment, its policies and the actions derived from same is not antisemitic (semites are a broad classification anyway not exclusive) but rather pro-democracy, given said goverment is "the only democratic state in the mideast"
the main college protest organizer is Nerdeen Kiswani, a known anti semite. her organization explicitly calls for the complete eradication of Israel, including for Israel to be “wiped off the map”
Many protesters are chanting River to sea, which is antisemitism. Many Jewish students are being blamed and attacked on college campuses. These protests are mostly not peaceful.
There will likely be protests during the democratic convention in Chicago, which will draw comparisons to 1968, when Vietnam protesters made the democrats look unfit to lead, and Nixon won easily . Trump will say the same now, that Biden has lost control of the country. Eight months after this war began, and trump is still leading in the polls.
you familiar with the 1st amendment, correct? many disagree with the some of the messaging and manner, but what was false about that specific tweet, stating quite clearly thoughts in general about protests and this topic.
I saw no endorsement of what you describe.
it would appear you fall in the with us or against us mindset camp.
here , I hestitate to truly say what I want but your stance on the innocent civilians , MANY of which werent even born when that bloc was voted in, is abhorent at the least. no human being has any more value over another.
you're free to disagree. it IS still a free country ....
The protesters are breaking the law and deserve to be arrested.
those arrested should be investigated for every dollar received in their support. If any moneys are sourced from Middle East terrorist groups they should be thrown in prison. Let their terrorist ties be on their record and CVs for the rest of their lives.
Just taking a page from Hillel. You know, the student group funded by Israel to crush any dissent of Israel and pro-Palestinian voices on US college campuses? But they get a pass because they’re righteous, right?
Well, seems Bibi might have a few more things to worry about.
Students are committing crimes on college campuses. Your best defense of that is two wrongs make a right? Students graduating now deserve their right to have a peaceful and joyous graduation within the next few weeks.
if the students protesting believe they are correct, and are willing to risk their careers and freedom, they should act like law abiding Americans, obtain a demonstration permit and protest peacefully and obey the law.
this. would add criticizing a goverment, its policies and the actions derived from same is not antisemitic (semites are a broad classification anyway not exclusive) but rather pro-democracy, given said goverment is "the only democratic state in the mideast"
the main college protest organizer is Nerdeen Kiswani, a known anti semite. her organization explicitly calls for the complete eradication of Israel, including for Israel to be “wiped off the map”
Many protesters are chanting River to sea, which is antisemitism. Many Jewish students are being blamed and attacked on college campuses. These protests are mostly not peaceful.
There will likely be protests during the democratic convention in Chicago, which will draw comparisons to 1968, when Vietnam protesters made the democrats look unfit to lead, and Nixon won easily . Trump will say the same now, that Biden has lost control of the country. Eight months after this war began, and trump is still leading in the polls.
you familiar with the 1st amendment, correct? many disagree with the some of the messaging and manner, but what was false about that specific tweet, stating quite clearly thoughts in general about protests and this topic.
I saw no endorsement of what you describe.
it would appear you fall in the with us or against us mindset camp.
here , I hestitate to truly say what I want but your stance on the innocent civilians , MANY of which werent even born when that bloc was voted in, is abhorent at the least. no human being has any more value over another.
you're free to disagree. it IS still a free country ....
The protesters are breaking the law and deserve to be arrested.
those arrested should be investigated for every dollar received in their support. If any moneys are sourced from Middle East terrorist groups they should be thrown in prison. Let their terrorist ties be on their record and CVs for the rest of their lives.
Just taking a page from Hillel. You know, the student group funded by Israel to crush any dissent of Israel and pro-Palestinian voices on US college campuses? But they get a pass because they’re righteous, right?
Well, seems Bibi might have a few more things to worry about.
Students are committing crimes on college campuses. Your best defense of that is two wrongs make a right? Students graduating now deserve their right to have a peaceful and joyous graduation within the next few weeks.
if the students protesting believe they are correct, and are willing to risk their careers and freedom, they should act like law abiding Americans, obtain a demonstration permit and protest peacefully and obey the law.
Members of Hillel never violated the law or disrupted college campuses? Never blocked entry to where a controversial speaker was going to speak, never made threats or created a hostile campus environment nor disrupted a graduation? If this were a BLM protest, anti-nuke, earth day protest, etc., I doubt you’d protest too much. But when it’s Israel and their genocide of Palestinians, it’s a crime.
If only blacks had done the same in the 50’s, the riots of the 60s and 70s never would have happened, eh?
I look forward to the posts that the “students” don’t know what they’re protesting and should be jailed for exercising free speech. Any criticism of Israel is antisemitism, we get it.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
this. would add criticizing a goverment, its policies and the actions derived from same is not antisemitic (semites are a broad classification anyway not exclusive) but rather pro-democracy, given said goverment is "the only democratic state in the mideast"
the main college protest organizer is Nerdeen Kiswani, a known anti semite. her organization explicitly calls for the complete eradication of Israel, including for Israel to be “wiped off the map”
Many protesters are chanting River to sea, which is antisemitism. Many Jewish students are being blamed and attacked on college campuses. These protests are mostly not peaceful.
There will likely be protests during the democratic convention in Chicago, which will draw comparisons to 1968, when Vietnam protesters made the democrats look unfit to lead, and Nixon won easily . Trump will say the same now, that Biden has lost control of the country. Eight months after this war began, and trump is still leading in the polls.
IN fairness, 1968 was fucked up for the D's because RFK was killed in June. I have always believed he would have won, even with the Chicago issue.
But I am marveling at the historical analogy between 1968 (and 1970) and today. These protests ARE much more peaceful than back then and it's really not close. That being said, I think Columbia has handled this pretty well overall and the protests seem to by dying down. Yale, Brown and other schools have successfully quelled them. I didn't get a chance to see UCLA last night, so I'm not sure how rowdy that one got.
I also agree this is a risk for Biden. But not because of the "lost control of the country" angle. I think most people are smart enough to remember what happened with Kent State and know that the NG is not the right decision. Rather the risk is the young, engaged voter staying home. It is critical that some sort of cease fire and peace be achieved sometime in the next several weeks.
this. would add criticizing a goverment, its policies and the actions derived from same is not antisemitic (semites are a broad classification anyway not exclusive) but rather pro-democracy, given said goverment is "the only democratic state in the mideast"
the main college protest organizer is Nerdeen Kiswani, a known anti semite. her organization explicitly calls for the complete eradication of Israel, including for Israel to be “wiped off the map”
Many protesters are chanting River to sea, which is antisemitism. Many Jewish students are being blamed and attacked on college campuses. These protests are mostly not peaceful.
There will likely be protests during the democratic convention in Chicago, which will draw comparisons to 1968, when Vietnam protesters made the democrats look unfit to lead, and Nixon won easily . Trump will say the same now, that Biden has lost control of the country. Eight months after this war began, and trump is still leading in the polls.
you familiar with the 1st amendment, correct? many disagree with the some of the messaging and manner, but what was false about that specific tweet, stating quite clearly thoughts in general about protests and this topic.
I saw no endorsement of what you describe.
it would appear you fall in the with us or against us mindset camp.
here , I hestitate to truly say what I want but your stance on the innocent civilians , MANY of which werent even born when that bloc was voted in, is abhorent at the least. no human being has any more value over another.
you're free to disagree. it IS still a free country ....
The protesters are breaking the law and deserve to be arrested.
those arrested should be investigated for every dollar received in their support. If any moneys are sourced from Middle East terrorist groups they should be thrown in prison. Let their terrorist ties be on their record and CVs for the rest of their lives.
Just taking a page from Hillel. You know, the student group funded by Israel to crush any dissent of Israel and pro-Palestinian voices on US college campuses? But they get a pass because they’re righteous, right?
Well, seems Bibi might have a few more things to worry about.
Students are committing crimes on college campuses. Your best defense of that is two wrongs make a right? Students graduating now deserve their right to have a peaceful and joyous graduation within the next few weeks.
if the students protesting believe they are correct, and are willing to risk their careers and freedom, they should act like law abiding Americans, obtain a demonstration permit and protest peacefully and obey the law.
What do you mean by "mostly not peaceful"? Are you saying that better than 50% of the protesters are committing crimes that are considered violent? If so, that is demonstrably false. If you are saying "not peaceful" means committing a crime, well I guess that would include trespassing but seems a stretch to call that "violent".
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up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,011
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Comments
https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/28/politics/sanders-university-protest-israel-netanyahu/index.html
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Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
on Oct 7, all you had to say wash rinse repeat or some bad joke like that regarding the Jews that died that day.
retaliate
[ ri-tal-ee-eyt ]
verb (used without object)
to retaliate for an injury
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
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Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
In the past if you didn't agree w Israel then you got labeled an Anti-Semite.
I would say that Palestine needs to abolish Hamas if they want to move forward then Israel might listen more?
Palestine will never become a country unfortunately. That will always be a problem. The people are just stuck there then. I don't think any other surrounding country would have them.
I thought that accepting Israel's existence would have Palestine being accepted too but if they do not recognize Israel then Palestinians being part of the state of Israel in turn is not recognized.
Edit: this is to the surrounding countries that would differ with Israel.
Because it's known that once anyone leaves, they would not be allowed to return. The nakba is the guiding history .
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
the main college protest organizer is Nerdeen Kiswani, a known anti semite. her organization explicitly calls for the complete eradication of Israel, including for Israel to be “wiped off the map”
https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/29/middleeast/israeli-airstrike-rafah-gaza-intl/index.html
https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/29/politics/us-israel-security-units-human-rights-violations/index.html
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Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
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Yes there are "refugee" camps in Lebanon and Jordan but no Arab country wants them.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
1. The population is likely riled up, due to Israeli and Palestinian leadership failing the people so regularly. Why would a country without having a role in creating the mess, want to inherit a population who is (reasonably) filled with rage, and trained by their leadership on how to govern through fear and terror?
2. The population is poor and starving: why would a country without having a role in creating the mess, want the financial and social overhead of absorbing this population into their society?
3. The population has a history of, upon leaving, not being permitted to return without concessions. Why would a country without having a role in creating this mess, want to risk helping another nation usurp land from them when there is precedence for exactly this happening? What assurances (if any) have been given that this won't occur?
4. After Israeli air strikes on Rafah crossing, what (if any) good-faith gestures have been shown by Israel that evacuations to Arab countries would even be permitted? Hell, has that even been brought up by Israeli leadership?
5. There's no obligation that individual Muslims take care of Muslims, Christians of Christians, Jews of Jews - so why should it be that Muslim nations take care of Muslim nations, Christians of Christian nations, Jews of Jewish nations?
6. Let's say the previous points were outlandish (I don't think they are). Does anyone in their right mind believe that giving Palestinians a choice between exile and death will lead to a persistent (or even temporary) peace? How about reducing global anti-Semitism?
7. I don't think tempo was implying that it's wrong for the surrounding countries not to take in the Palestinians - just that it's not their damn problem. Do you not see how some might find it outrageous to blame Arab nations' lack of charity for the current (or ongoing) Palestinian situation?
At this point, I have to believe we are all wasting countless hours on something without the will to fix it.
Palestinians don't believe Israel has their best interests in mind, and vice-versa. Both are with historical precedence, because both peoples have a different sense of what the 'first grievance' was, and use that to justify their retaliations. That's a non-starter.
Palestinian leaders don't govern free and fair elections. That's a non-starter.
Palestinian leaders promote and endorse terror. That's a non-starter.
Palestinians aren't granted basic human rights by Israelis. That's a non-starter.
Israeli leaders maintain power and win elections through fear and propaganda. That's a non-starter.
No coalition in Israel is large enough that a politician can win an election without making concessions to a politically extreme sect (typically oriented around - you guessed it - the Palestinian people). That's a non-starter.
Am I misguided on some part of this to say that all parties have a role in this fucked up situation with no solution in sight?
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Edit: Palestinians don't believe Israel has their best interests in mind, and vice-versa. Both are with historical precedence, because both peoples have a different sense of what the 'first grievance' was, and use that to justify their retaliations. That's a non-starter.
#1 reason this will go on forever.
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those arrested should be investigated for every dollar received in their support. If any moneys are sourced from Middle East terrorist groups they should be thrown in prison. Let their terrorist ties be on their record and CVs for the rest of their lives.
Well, seems Bibi might have a few more things to worry about.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/israel-fears-icc-issue-arrest-warrants-netanyahu-gaza-war-hamas-rcna149739
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if the students protesting believe they are correct, and are willing to risk their careers and freedom, they should act like law abiding Americans, obtain a demonstration permit and protest peacefully and obey the law.
If only blacks had done the same in the 50’s, the riots of the 60s and 70s never would have happened, eh?
I look forward to the posts that the “students” don’t know what they’re protesting and should be jailed for exercising free speech. Any criticism of Israel is antisemitism, we get it.
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Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
But I am marveling at the historical analogy between 1968 (and 1970) and today. These protests ARE much more peaceful than back then and it's really not close. That being said, I think Columbia has handled this pretty well overall and the protests seem to by dying down. Yale, Brown and other schools have successfully quelled them. I didn't get a chance to see UCLA last night, so I'm not sure how rowdy that one got.
I also agree this is a risk for Biden. But not because of the "lost control of the country" angle. I think most people are smart enough to remember what happened with Kent State and know that the NG is not the right decision. Rather the risk is the young, engaged voter staying home. It is critical that some sort of cease fire and peace be achieved sometime in the next several weeks.
saw a stat that 80% of arrestees aren't students....
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14