Am I the only one here who sees rock and rap/hip hop as being two distinct genres in music?
They are distinct genres, but no question that rap has had serious impact on rock. From rock pop to heavy rock, rap has had an unmistakable influence on many bands. So in a conversation about which 5 artists had biggest impact on the rock genre, it is totally fair to discuss rap artists because of how much that music has affected so many genres, even dang country!
And just to make @Get_Right happy, I'll hold the Beastie Boys up as a good example of the mix . Check out this song, it's impossible to say it's not a perfect fusion of rock and rap, even if you don't like the song itself...
[Note the "proves my point perfectly" first subtitles "TENSE ANGRY MUSIC" ]
This is a rap group playing rock music and has no rap undertones...
The style reminds me of 90's hardcore perfectly too. A lot of NY bands at this time sounded like this.
I believe Blondie gave rapping a try in a song way back when too?
I disagree that it's "rock music" only and has "no rap undertones", and would happily get into a discussion about this specific song, but further discussion of rap isn't welcome in this convo by the original poster so... maybe we'll meet up at an east coast gig one day and have this debate in person
I would argue the Beastie Boys were pretty influential in changing both rock AND rap in the late '80s early '90s.
Run DMC and Aerosmith started it really and you can thank the producer Rick Rubin for that. The melding of rock/rap. If the Beasties weren't on Def Jam and had Rick as a producer I am not sure how much rock would have been in there? You think Public Enemy was going to sample Angel of Death without Ricks needling and that they were all on the same label?
Rock/rap was akin to numetal, Korn, RATM. They had the sounds and delivery. Beastie Boys rock/hardcore songs are the furthest from rapping... Sabotage is a great song and it isn't rap.
Sorry Brian. I am just passionate about music, lol!
Hey, bud, no worries! Never need to apologize for being a music FANATIC!
I do enjoy pulling info out from each other. Most of this is in my damn head and I don't google it so sometimes my memory is blurry but at least I'm in the right area, lol!
The Originals, the New Originals, the Thamesmen and Spinal Tap
Manchester 04.06.00, Leeds 25.08.06, Wembley 18.06.07, Dusseldorf 21.06.07, Shepherds Bush 11.08.09, Manchester 17.08.09, Adelaide 17.11.09, Melbourne 20.11.09, Sydney 22.11.09, Brisbane 25.11.09, MSG1 20.05.10, MSG2 21.05.10, Dublin 22.06.10, Belfast 23.06.10, London 25.06.10, Long Beach 06.07.11 (EV), Los Angeles 08.07.11 (EV), Toronto 11.09.11, Toronto 12.09.11, Ottawa 14.09.11, Hamilton 14.09.11, Manchester 20.06.12, Manchester 21.06.12, Amsterdam 26.06.2012, Amsterdam 27.06.2012, Berlin 04.07.12, Berlin 05.07.12, Stockholm 07.07.12, Oslo 09.07.12, Copenhagen 10.07.12, Manchester 28.07.12 (EV), Brooklyn 18.10.13, Brooklyn 19.10.13, Philly 21.10.13, Philly 22.10.13, San Diego 21.11.13, LA 23.11.13, LA 24.11.13, Oakland 26.11.13, Portland 29.11.13, Spokane 30.11.13, Calgary 02.12.13, Vancouver 04.12.13, Seattle 06.12.13, Trieste 22.06.14, Vienna 25.06.14, Berlin 26.06.14, Stockholm 28.06.14, Leeds 08.07.14, Philly 28.04.16, Philly 28.04.16, MSG1 01.05.16, MSG2 02.05.16
Licensed to Ill was rock and rap and yes, Rick Rubin. Before Aerosmith and Run DMC. Now I sound like JH6056 LOL
The King of Rock came out before Licensed to Ill.
They both came out the same year. Walk this way hit the map before Licensed.
Rick Rubin is the key ingredient here.
Walk This Way is not on King of Rock, it's on Raising Hell, which came out the same year as Licensed. I forgot about Rock Box, which came out on Run-D.M.C.'s debut in 1984.
D.M.C. himself admitted that it wasn't all Rick Rubin (from the King of Rock wikipedia):
The music on the album was created by Larry Smith's group Orange Krush using the drum machine
Oberheim DMX and Jam Master Jay's scratches mixed in a guitar riff.
D.M.C. once commented on this fact: "People forget about Larry Smith,
but Larry Smith owned hip-hop and rap. He produced our first two albums,
and he produced Whodini. The rock-rap sound was Larry Smith's vision,
not Rick Rubin's. Rick changed the story, but Larry was there first.
Actually, me and Run were against the guitar."
Licensed to Ill was rock and rap and yes, Rick Rubin. Before Aerosmith and Run DMC. Now I sound like JH6056 LOL
The King of Rock came out before Licensed to Ill.
They both came out the same year. Walk this way hit the map before Licensed.
Rick Rubin is the key ingredient here.
Walk This Way is not on King of Rock, it's on Raising Hell, which came out the same year as Licensed. I forgot about Rock Box, which came out on Run-D.M.C.'s debut in 1984.
D.M.C. himself admitted that it wasn't all Rick Rubin (from the King of Rock wikipedia):
The music on the album was created by Larry Smith's group Orange Krush using the drum machine
Oberheim DMX and Jam Master Jay's scratches mixed in a guitar riff.
D.M.C. once commented on this fact: "People forget about Larry Smith,
but Larry Smith owned hip-hop and rap. He produced our first two albums,
and he produced Whodini. The rock-rap sound was Larry Smith's vision,
not Rick Rubin's. Rick changed the story, but Larry was there first.
Actually, me and Run were against the guitar."
So Rick Rubin is the driving force and Larry Smith was the first to do it.
Rubin pushed it much further then Smith did.
This is a very fun convo. Keep these nuggets of info coming people!
Just now getting to watch the whole unedited Taylor Hawkins tribute show at Wembley in London, and I gotta say.... This thread needs to be re-upped because quite a few people named in these pages have been onstage! And really, for any classic rock fan, this is the best way to see some greats, not sure how many more times we'll see a few of them!
I'm particularly blown away by the spirit & epic-ness of Metallica's Lars Ulrich on drums and AC/DC's Brian Johnson on vocals (& Grohl on drums) for "Back In Black"; then Geddy Lee & Alex Lifeson of Rush with David Bowie's drummer Omar Hakim, playing Rush songs, and Roger Taylor, Roger Taylor's son, Dave Grohl & someone else ALL ON DRUMS, and Brian May on guitar, for Queen songs! And I didn't know the James Gang before... And there's so much more. So folks who posted passtionately in this thread should check out the whole 5 hour show, there are some incredible moments!
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,717
Just now getting to watch the whole unedited Taylor Hawkins tribute show at Wembley in London, and I gotta say.... This thread needs to be re-upped because quite a few people named in these pages have been onstage! And really, for any classic rock fan, this is the best way to see some greats, not sure how many more times we'll see a few of them!
I'm particularly blown away by the spirit & epic-ness of Metallica's Lars Ulrich on drums and AC/DC's Brian Johnson on vocals (& Grohl on drums) for "Back In Black"; then Geddy Lee & Alex Lifeson of Rush with David Bowie's drummer Omar Hakim, playing Rush songs, and Roger Taylor, Roger Taylor's son, Dave Grohl & someone else ALL ON DRUMS, and Brian May on guitar, for Queen songs! And I didn't know the James Gang before... And there's so much more. So folks who posted passtionately in this thread should check out the whole 5 hour show, there are some incredible moments!
All of those musicians you mentioned are terrific players, without a doubt. But as much as they are all excellent, I would not consider any of them as being in that rare and special group of artist who created major changes in rock. And I do not say that to disparage any of them!
Think of it this way- if we did this same thread question for jazz and were to name 5 musicians who did the most to change jazz, outside of Louis Armstrong, Duke Ellington, Charlie Parker, Miles Davis, Thelonious Monk, John Coltrane, Ornette Coleman, and a few other major heavy weights of that genre, I don't think there would be a whole lot of room for many, many other fine players like Elvin Jones, Ron Carter, Oliver Nelson, Dave Brubeck, Dexter Gordon and on and on almost ad infinitum! Epic though the work of those latter names may be (and often were), I don't see any of them fitting into a top 5 list of artist who made the biggest changes in jazz.
With all due respect, JH, I think your ideas- excellent though they surely are- might fit better in another thread topic.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Just now getting to watch the whole unedited Taylor Hawkins tribute show at Wembley in London, and I gotta say.... This thread needs to be re-upped because quite a few people named in these pages have been onstage! And really, for any classic rock fan, this is the best way to see some greats, not sure how many more times we'll see a few of them!
I'm particularly blown away by the spirit & epic-ness of Metallica's Lars Ulrich on drums and AC/DC's Brian Johnson on vocals (& Grohl on drums) for "Back In Black"; then Geddy Lee & Alex Lifeson of Rush with David Bowie's drummer Omar Hakim, playing Rush songs, and Roger Taylor, Roger Taylor's son, Dave Grohl & someone else ALL ON DRUMS, and Brian May on guitar, for Queen songs! And I didn't know the James Gang before... And there's so much more. So folks who posted passtionately in this thread should check out the whole 5 hour show, there are some incredible moments!
All of those musicians you mentioned are terrific players, without a doubt. But as much as they are all excellent, I would not consider any of them as being in that rare and special group of artist who created major changes in rock. And I do not say that to disparage any of them!
Think of it this way- if we did this same thread question for jazz and were to name 5 musicians who did the most to change jazz, outside of Louis Armstrong, Duke Ellington, Charlie Parker, Miles Davis, Thelonious Monk, John Coltrane, Ornette Coleman, and a few other major heavy weights of that genre, I don't think there would be a whole lot of room for many, many other fine players like Elvin Jones, Ron Carter, Oliver Nelson, Dave Brubeck, Dexter Gordon and on and on almost ad infinitum! Epic though the work of those latter names may be (and often were), I don't see any of them fitting into a top 5 list of artist who made the biggest changes in jazz.
With all due respect, JH, I think your ideas- excellent though they surely are- might fit better in another thread topic.
That's cool Brian, I'll explain what I was trying to do then definitely retire from this thread.
I was not making the case that these were THE life-changing bands. I meant exactly what I said: Some of these groups were on people's lists in THIS thread, and more than anything I was flying the flag that if people weren't aware that all this went on at the tribute, it was a chance to see some classic rockers doing their thing with a lot of crossover between bands, which is pretty rare with these groups these days.
I was trying to think which thread might have the most people that might be interested, and I thought of this one. Nowhere in it do I claim any of these bands to be the top 5 game changers, I say exactly what I mean which is "Really for any classic rock fan, this is the best way to see some greats, not sure how many more times we'll see a few of them!"
I apologize for just trying to spread the word on something I thought this group in particular might be interested in and might not know about. Since this is the 2nd time you took what I said in particular, said it didn't fit your topic, and suggested I start another thread, while I will continue to spread the word on things that I think a larger group might be interested in on this forum, I'll steer clear of commenting in threads you start. It was really a good faith effort to reach a specific group I thought might be interested.
Over and out.
Post edited by JH6056 on
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,717
Just now getting to watch the whole unedited Taylor Hawkins tribute show at Wembley in London, and I gotta say.... This thread needs to be re-upped because quite a few people named in these pages have been onstage! And really, for any classic rock fan, this is the best way to see some greats, not sure how many more times we'll see a few of them!
I'm particularly blown away by the spirit & epic-ness of Metallica's Lars Ulrich on drums and AC/DC's Brian Johnson on vocals (& Grohl on drums) for "Back In Black"; then Geddy Lee & Alex Lifeson of Rush with David Bowie's drummer Omar Hakim, playing Rush songs, and Roger Taylor, Roger Taylor's son, Dave Grohl & someone else ALL ON DRUMS, and Brian May on guitar, for Queen songs! And I didn't know the James Gang before... And there's so much more. So folks who posted passtionately in this thread should check out the whole 5 hour show, there are some incredible moments!
All of those musicians you mentioned are terrific players, without a doubt. But as much as they are all excellent, I would not consider any of them as being in that rare and special group of artist who created major changes in rock. And I do not say that to disparage any of them!
Think of it this way- if we did this same thread question for jazz and were to name 5 musicians who did the most to change jazz, outside of Louis Armstrong, Duke Ellington, Charlie Parker, Miles Davis, Thelonious Monk, John Coltrane, Ornette Coleman, and a few other major heavy weights of that genre, I don't think there would be a whole lot of room for many, many other fine players like Elvin Jones, Ron Carter, Oliver Nelson, Dave Brubeck, Dexter Gordon and on and on almost ad infinitum! Epic though the work of those latter names may be (and often were), I don't see any of them fitting into a top 5 list of artist who made the biggest changes in jazz.
With all due respect, JH, I think your ideas- excellent though they surely are- might fit better in another thread topic.
That's cool Brian, I'll explain what I was trying to do then definitely retire from this thread.
I was not making the case that these were THE life-changing bands. I meant exactly what I said: Some of these groups were on people's lists in THIS thread, and more than anything I was flying the flag that if people weren't aware that all this went on at the tribute, it was a chance to see some classic rockers doing their thing with a lot of crossover between bands, which is pretty rare with these groups these days.
I was trying to think which thread might have the most people that might be interested, and I thought of this one. Nowhere in it do I claim any of these bands to be the top 5 game changers, I say exactly what I mean which is "Really for any classic rock fan, this is the best way to see some greats, not sure how many more times we'll see a few of them!"
I apologize for just trying to spread the word on something I thought this group in particular might be interested in and might not know about. Since this is the 2nd time you took what I said in particular, said it didn't fit your topic, and suggested I start another thread, while I will continue to spread the word on things that I think a larger group might be interested in on this forum, I'll steer clear of commenting in threads you start. It was really a good faith effort to reach a specific group I thought might be interested.
Over and out.
Hey, JH, I'm sorry I hit a nerve, JH. I think you're overreacting. I can tell you are very passionate about the Hawkins tribute. Absolutely nothing wrong with that and that's cool. But why here? I mean, not that it's a big deal. We're just here to have fun, right? But why not start a thread that fits the topic you're on which is different than this one?
Look, on this Other Music forum, I'm here to have fun and be friends. If this turns into something more hostile, I am definitely sorry about that and have no interest in the conflict. Music is sacred ground for me, something to share and appreciate, not a place to bicker.
I'm done here as well. Sheesh...
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Just now getting to watch the whole unedited Taylor Hawkins tribute show at Wembley in London, and I gotta say.... This thread needs to be re-upped because quite a few people named in these pages have been onstage! And really, for any classic rock fan, this is the best way to see some greats, not sure how many more times we'll see a few of them!
I'm particularly blown away by the spirit & epic-ness of Metallica's Lars Ulrich on drums and AC/DC's Brian Johnson on vocals (& Grohl on drums) for "Back In Black"; then Geddy Lee & Alex Lifeson of Rush with David Bowie's drummer Omar Hakim, playing Rush songs, and Roger Taylor, Roger Taylor's son, Dave Grohl & someone else ALL ON DRUMS, and Brian May on guitar, for Queen songs! And I didn't know the James Gang before... And there's so much more. So folks who posted passtionately in this thread should check out the whole 5 hour show, there are some incredible moments!
All of those musicians you mentioned are terrific players, without a doubt. But as much as they are all excellent, I would not consider any of them as being in that rare and special group of artist who created major changes in rock. And I do not say that to disparage any of them!
Think of it this way- if we did this same thread question for jazz and were to name 5 musicians who did the most to change jazz, outside of Louis Armstrong, Duke Ellington, Charlie Parker, Miles Davis, Thelonious Monk, John Coltrane, Ornette Coleman, and a few other major heavy weights of that genre, I don't think there would be a whole lot of room for many, many other fine players like Elvin Jones, Ron Carter, Oliver Nelson, Dave Brubeck, Dexter Gordon and on and on almost ad infinitum! Epic though the work of those latter names may be (and often were), I don't see any of them fitting into a top 5 list of artist who made the biggest changes in jazz.
With all due respect, JH, I think your ideas- excellent though they surely are- might fit better in another thread topic.
That's cool Brian, I'll explain what I was trying to do then definitely retire from this thread.
I was not making the case that these were THE life-changing bands. I meant exactly what I said: Some of these groups were on people's lists in THIS thread, and more than anything I was flying the flag that if people weren't aware that all this went on at the tribute, it was a chance to see some classic rockers doing their thing with a lot of crossover between bands, which is pretty rare with these groups these days.
I was trying to think which thread might have the most people that might be interested, and I thought of this one. Nowhere in it do I claim any of these bands to be the top 5 game changers, I say exactly what I mean which is "Really for any classic rock fan, this is the best way to see some greats, not sure how many more times we'll see a few of them!"
I apologize for just trying to spread the word on something I thought this group in particular might be interested in and might not know about. Since this is the 2nd time you took what I said in particular, said it didn't fit your topic, and suggested I start another thread, while I will continue to spread the word on things that I think a larger group might be interested in on this forum, I'll steer clear of commenting in threads you start. It was really a good faith effort to reach a specific group I thought might be interested.
Over and out.
@JH6056 Brian means no harm. We love talking music on here and you should too.
Put us all in a room and we would have some serious fun discussing Muzak, lol!
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,717
Just now getting to watch the whole unedited Taylor Hawkins tribute show at Wembley in London, and I gotta say.... This thread needs to be re-upped because quite a few people named in these pages have been onstage! And really, for any classic rock fan, this is the best way to see some greats, not sure how many more times we'll see a few of them!
I'm particularly blown away by the spirit & epic-ness of Metallica's Lars Ulrich on drums and AC/DC's Brian Johnson on vocals (& Grohl on drums) for "Back In Black"; then Geddy Lee & Alex Lifeson of Rush with David Bowie's drummer Omar Hakim, playing Rush songs, and Roger Taylor, Roger Taylor's son, Dave Grohl & someone else ALL ON DRUMS, and Brian May on guitar, for Queen songs! And I didn't know the James Gang before... And there's so much more. So folks who posted passtionately in this thread should check out the whole 5 hour show, there are some incredible moments!
All of those musicians you mentioned are terrific players, without a doubt. But as much as they are all excellent, I would not consider any of them as being in that rare and special group of artist who created major changes in rock. And I do not say that to disparage any of them!
Think of it this way- if we did this same thread question for jazz and were to name 5 musicians who did the most to change jazz, outside of Louis Armstrong, Duke Ellington, Charlie Parker, Miles Davis, Thelonious Monk, John Coltrane, Ornette Coleman, and a few other major heavy weights of that genre, I don't think there would be a whole lot of room for many, many other fine players like Elvin Jones, Ron Carter, Oliver Nelson, Dave Brubeck, Dexter Gordon and on and on almost ad infinitum! Epic though the work of those latter names may be (and often were), I don't see any of them fitting into a top 5 list of artist who made the biggest changes in jazz.
With all due respect, JH, I think your ideas- excellent though they surely are- might fit better in another thread topic.
That's cool Brian, I'll explain what I was trying to do then definitely retire from this thread.
I was not making the case that these were THE life-changing bands. I meant exactly what I said: Some of these groups were on people's lists in THIS thread, and more than anything I was flying the flag that if people weren't aware that all this went on at the tribute, it was a chance to see some classic rockers doing their thing with a lot of crossover between bands, which is pretty rare with these groups these days.
I was trying to think which thread might have the most people that might be interested, and I thought of this one. Nowhere in it do I claim any of these bands to be the top 5 game changers, I say exactly what I mean which is "Really for any classic rock fan, this is the best way to see some greats, not sure how many more times we'll see a few of them!"
I apologize for just trying to spread the word on something I thought this group in particular might be interested in and might not know about. Since this is the 2nd time you took what I said in particular, said it didn't fit your topic, and suggested I start another thread, while I will continue to spread the word on things that I think a larger group might be interested in on this forum, I'll steer clear of commenting in threads you start. It was really a good faith effort to reach a specific group I thought might be interested.
Over and out.
@JH6056 Brian means no harm. We love talking music on here and you should too.
Put us all in a room and we would have some serious fun discussing Muzak, lol!
Yeah, it's all good.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Comments
Hey, bud, no worries! Never need to apologize for being a music FANATIC!
Rick Rubin is amazing! Talk about someone who has done it all!
Run-D.M.C. dabbled into rock way before Raising Hell.
Elvis
Bob Dylan
Beatles
Jimi Hendrix
Led Zeppelin
Grateful Dead
I think all rock music post 1978 has elements of at least one of these artists/bands.
Rick Rubin is the key ingredient here.
Rubin pushed it much further then Smith did.
This is a very fun convo. Keep these nuggets of info coming people!
Intravenus de Milo was a groundbreaking LP.
Looks good to me, E!
I love the discussions and passion that we have in here.
I'm particularly blown away by the spirit & epic-ness of Metallica's Lars Ulrich on drums and AC/DC's Brian Johnson on vocals (& Grohl on drums) for "Back In Black"; then Geddy Lee & Alex Lifeson of Rush with David Bowie's drummer Omar Hakim, playing Rush songs, and Roger Taylor, Roger Taylor's son, Dave Grohl & someone else ALL ON DRUMS, and Brian May on guitar, for Queen songs! And I didn't know the James Gang before... And there's so much more. So folks who posted passtionately in this thread should check out the whole 5 hour show, there are some incredible moments!
Think of it this way- if we did this same thread question for jazz and were to name 5 musicians who did the most to change jazz, outside of Louis Armstrong, Duke Ellington, Charlie Parker, Miles Davis, Thelonious Monk, John Coltrane, Ornette Coleman, and a few other major heavy weights of that genre, I don't think there would be a whole lot of room for many, many other fine players like Elvin Jones, Ron Carter, Oliver Nelson, Dave Brubeck, Dexter Gordon and on and on almost ad infinitum! Epic though the work of those latter names may be (and often were), I don't see any of them fitting into a top 5 list of artist who made the biggest changes in jazz.
I was not making the case that these were THE life-changing bands. I meant exactly what I said: Some of these groups were on people's lists in THIS thread, and more than anything I was flying the flag that if people weren't aware that all this went on at the tribute, it was a chance to see some classic rockers doing their thing with a lot of crossover between bands, which is pretty rare with these groups these days.
I was trying to think which thread might have the most people that might be interested, and I thought of this one. Nowhere in it do I claim any of these bands to be the top 5 game changers, I say exactly what I mean which is "Really for any classic rock fan, this is the best way to see some greats, not sure how many more times we'll see a few of them!"
I apologize for just trying to spread the word on something I thought this group in particular might be interested in and might not know about. Since this is the 2nd time you took what I said in particular, said it didn't fit your topic, and suggested I start another thread, while I will continue to spread the word on things that I think a larger group might be interested in on this forum, I'll steer clear of commenting in threads you start. It was really a good faith effort to reach a specific group I thought might be interested.
Over and out.
Can we all agree on one thing?
John Lennon should be on the master list. All by himself.
LOL. And a fine way to end this thread. Thank you!
Brian means no harm. We love talking music on here and you should too.
Put us all in a room and we would have some serious fun discussing Muzak, lol!
Yeah, it's all good.