Pete Townshend🤔 Pete Townshend ❤️🔥 Pete Townshend 😎 Pete Townshend ❤️ Pete Townshend 🙏
Seriously my 5 would be...
Elvis Presley- Rock n Roll's first really big superstar, he made the business huge. A sexual revolution was now attached to the music.
Bob Dylan- His lyrics changed EVERYTHING for EVERYONE that followed. The music was pretty fucking great also. The apocalypse was upon us and Jesus just study his lyrics no-one comes close to this man's pen.
The Beatles- On any list they have to be included! Like I tell everyone I have musical/artistic discussions with there's a lot of artists that effected the world(almost every artist listed on my list and above) but, the Beatles changed the world.
The Who- Pete Townshend, Roger Daltrey, Keith Moon and John Entwistle 🙏 I think I've stated on here enough times why they belong on here but, I will quickly try again. If everyone who loves all forms of music really studied and analyzed what they accomplished you should unquestionably come to the conclusion they were the most innovative rock band of all time and PT is obviously the biggest reason why.
David Bowie- I mean he really created and re-invented over and over again the alternative world of music, art and fashion and it's pretty staggering how many differet artists fall under the landscape he carved out for them. As PT said after he died he was the true artist.
You know who is missing on this list? Alanis Morrissette. She single handedly made women taken seriously in music. Yes, before her were others but you really saw an explosion of talent after Jagged came out.
I still think I'd have to list Carole King, Janis Joplin, or Patti Smith before Alanis. Also, No offense to the fine singer, but I kind of doubt Alanis will be seen so much as a major innovator in the long run. Maybe too soon to tell.
Definitely absolutely Patti Smith before Alanis. Patti's influence was far more far-reaching and game-changing.
Patti is definitely a goddess among female musicians. I feel inclined to want to give a shout for Lauri Anderson as well. Her album Big Science still sounds massively inventive to me.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Music in general or rock music? The Beatles are just in a class by themselves. GOAT. Hendrix changed the sound of rock n roll. Sex Pistols introduced something entirely new. Kraftwerk and Devo made music on synthesizers. Beastie Boys took rap global and transformed the genre with the samples. They do not get enough credit. Garth Brooks changed country music to appeal to the masses. I have never seen a more seismic shift in music than when Nevermind came out. Probably missing other artists, maybe Sabbath for metal, REM or Talking Heads as all time great "indie" bands.
Post edited by Get_Right on
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,760
Music in general or rock music? The Beatles are just in a class by themselves. GOAT. Hendrix changed the sound of rock n roll. Sex Pistols introduced something entirely new. Kraftwerk and Devo made music on synthesizers. Beastie Boys took rap global and transformed the genre with the samples. They do not get enough credit. Garth Brooks changed country music to appeal to the masses. I have never seen a more seismic shift in music than when Nevermind came out. Probably missing other artists, maybe Sabbath for metal, REM or Talking Heads as all time great "indie" bands.
I was thinking of rock music specifically. If we were to consider music in general, that would be a much more difficult and complicated question. We would have to look at music over all of known human history and then also take into account non-western music. I wouldn't know where to start with Middle-East, African, or Asian forms of music!
Good list, by the way, and kudos for mentioning Kraftwerk and Devo!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Music in general or rock music? The Beatles are just in a class by themselves. GOAT. Hendrix changed the sound of rock n roll. Sex Pistols introduced something entirely new. Kraftwerk and Devo made music on synthesizers. Beastie Boys took rap global and transformed the genre with the samples. They do not get enough credit. Garth Brooks changed country music to appeal to the masses. I have never seen a more seismic shift in music than when Nevermind came out. Probably missing other artists, maybe Sabbath for metal, REM or Talking Heads as all time great "indie" bands.
I was thinking of rock music specifically. If we were to consider music in general, that would be a much more difficult and complicated question. We would have to look at music over all of known human history and then also take into account non-western music. I wouldn't know where to start with Middle-East, African, or Asian forms of music!
Good list, by the way, and kudos for mentioning Kraftwerk and Devo!
When I was in grad school I wrote a paper on ethnomusicology for an archaeology class. The paper traced the origins of different types of early musical instruments (flutes made out of bird bones, etc.). The paper also touched upon early expressions of music. So, we can trace the influences really far back.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,760
Music in general or rock music? The Beatles are just in a class by themselves. GOAT. Hendrix changed the sound of rock n roll. Sex Pistols introduced something entirely new. Kraftwerk and Devo made music on synthesizers. Beastie Boys took rap global and transformed the genre with the samples. They do not get enough credit. Garth Brooks changed country music to appeal to the masses. I have never seen a more seismic shift in music than when Nevermind came out. Probably missing other artists, maybe Sabbath for metal, REM or Talking Heads as all time great "indie" bands.
I was thinking of rock music specifically. If we were to consider music in general, that would be a much more difficult and complicated question. We would have to look at music over all of known human history and then also take into account non-western music. I wouldn't know where to start with Middle-East, African, or Asian forms of music!
Good list, by the way, and kudos for mentioning Kraftwerk and Devo!
When I was in grad school I wrote a paper on ethnomusicology for an archaeology class. The paper traced the origins of different types of early musical instruments (flutes made out of bird bones, etc.). The paper also touched upon early expressions of music. So, we can trace the influences really far back.
Fascinating! Published by any change? Or maybe care to share some highlights? (Not meaning to pry or pressure, it's just intriguing that you wrote such an interesting paper!)
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Music in general or rock music? The Beatles are just in a class by themselves. GOAT. Hendrix changed the sound of rock n roll. Sex Pistols introduced something entirely new. Kraftwerk and Devo made music on synthesizers. Beastie Boys took rap global and transformed the genre with the samples. They do not get enough credit. Garth Brooks changed country music to appeal to the masses. I have never seen a more seismic shift in music than when Nevermind came out. Probably missing other artists, maybe Sabbath for metal, REM or Talking Heads as all time great "indie" bands.
I was thinking of rock music specifically. If we were to consider music in general, that would be a much more difficult and complicated question. We would have to look at music over all of known human history and then also take into account non-western music. I wouldn't know where to start with Middle-East, African, or Asian forms of music!
Good list, by the way, and kudos for mentioning Kraftwerk and Devo!
When I was in grad school I wrote a paper on ethnomusicology for an archaeology class. The paper traced the origins of different types of early musical instruments (flutes made out of bird bones, etc.). The paper also touched upon early expressions of music. So, we can trace the influences really far back.
Fascinating! Published by any change? Or maybe care to share some highlights? (Not meaning to pry or pressure, it's just intriguing that you wrote such an interesting paper!)
It wasn’t published. It was just a research paper for a class assignment. I have it somewhere. If I can find it I will share some info from it with you. It’s not on my computer so I will look for my printed version. I have saved most of my papers from grad school. I just have to dig it out.
Over the last couple of years (including being immersed in one now, Moon, by Tony Fletcher), I read some really fine books relating to The Who. A couple of them pointed out something that fascinates me which is that one of the things that made The Who unique was that you had a guitar player who played his instruments like a drum, a drummer who played his kit like a guitar, a bass player who played his bass like a lead guitar, and a singer whose singing style changed and evolved along with Townshend's writing. In that way (and others, like creating rock operas), they made a huge impact on rock music.
That got me to thinking about which bands or musicians made greatest impact on rock and I decided to try to come up with five (and five only) who made the biggest impact. I came up with:
Elvis Presley. Elvis didn't really so much create new things in music, as he did stage presentation utilizing with his charismatic stage presence. Bob Dylan: By melding folk with rock and writing extended narrative songwriting, and poetry, Dylan expanded the scope of rock. The Who: As above. Jimi Hendrix: Hendrix not only changed the sonic quality of guitar playing and influenced countless players after him, but also melded blues, r&b, early rock, and psychedelia in new ways. And the Experience was, though not the first, probably the most visible early integrated band. The Sex Pistols: A hard 5th choice (the Clash and Ramones are strong considerations) because I really don't think the Pistols were either the first nor the best punk band, but they were the most visible and prototypical punk band.
I fully expect (hope, actually), others will have differing takes on this idea. Let's see what you come up with- hopefully with some reasoning for choices, and not just mere lists.
Brian.
Funny that I probably have over 20 Who related books including all the approved biographies and their all pretty damn good but, without a doubt Fletcher's Moon is my favorite! I was always glued to the pages he would speak of Moon and his metronome. It's too long to get into here but, for anyone interested check the book out and Tony will explain in many ways why Keith not Bonham or anyone else sat on the throne unparalleled. 😎
ALPINE VALLEY MUSIC THEATRE 1992 SUMMERFEST MILWAUKEE 1995 ALPINE VALLEY MUSIC THEATRE 1998 UNITED CENTER CHICAGO1998 THOMPSON-BOLING ARENA KNOXVILLE 1998 ALPINE VALLEY MUSIC THEATRE 2000 ALLSTATE ARENA ROSEMONT 2000 ALPINE VALLEY MUSIC THEATRE 2003 HERSHEYPARK STADIUM 2003 TOLEDO SPORTS ARENA 2004 AIR CANADA CENTRE TORONTO 2005 UNITED CENTER CHICAGO 2006 UNITED CENTER CHICAGO 2006 VERIZON CENTER DC 2008 UNITED CENTER CHICAGO 2009 NATIONWIDE ARENA COLUMBUS 2010 PJ20 NIGHT 1 Alpine Valley Music Theatre 2011 PJ20 NIGHT 2 Alpine Valley Music Theatre 2011 1ST MARINER ARENA BALTIMORE 2013 IWIRELESS CENTER MOLINE 2014 XCEL ENERGY CENTER ST. PAUL 2014 CHICAGO 1 Wrigley Field 2016 CHICAGO 2 Wrigley Field 2016 CHICAGO 1 Wrigley Field 2018 CHICAGO 2 Wrigley Field 2018 BOSTON 2 Fenway Park 2018 ENTERPRISE CENTER SAINT LOUIS 2022 Eddie Vedder Auditorium Theatre CHICAGO 2008
Music in general or rock music? The Beatles are just in a class by themselves. GOAT. Hendrix changed the sound of rock n roll. Sex Pistols introduced something entirely new. Kraftwerk and Devo made music on synthesizers. Beastie Boys took rap global and transformed the genre with the samples. They do not get enough credit. Garth Brooks changed country music to appeal to the masses. I have never seen a more seismic shift in music than when Nevermind came out. Probably missing other artists, maybe Sabbath for metal, REM or Talking Heads as all time great "indie" bands.
I thought about Kraftwerk and Devo too but ended up w Daft Punk because of what they brought after them.
Also thought of adding Joy Division. They were the brooders along w The Cure that brought a ton of influences after them.
Garth and Shania to me changed everything too for Country and thought about adding them as well. I was at a Metallica show in 91 and they were chatting to the audience via screens backstage and Lars said chuckling "Who the fuck is Garth Brooks and why can't we beat him for #1 Album?!?" Metallica was HUGE at that time but Garth Brooks was a name I looked up because of that very reason. Why the hell isn't Metallica #1, lol!?!
I dig everything else. I don't think REM and Heads ever changed things though as good as they both were?
Music in general or rock music? The Beatles are just in a class by themselves. GOAT. Hendrix changed the sound of rock n roll. Sex Pistols introduced something entirely new. Kraftwerk and Devo made music on synthesizers. Beastie Boys took rap global and transformed the genre with the samples. They do not get enough credit. Garth Brooks changed country music to appeal to the masses. I have never seen a more seismic shift in music than when Nevermind came out. Probably missing other artists, maybe Sabbath for metal, REM or Talking Heads as all time great "indie" bands.
I thought about Kraftwerk and Devo too but ended up w Daft Punk because of what they brought after them.
Also thought of adding Joy Division. They were the brooders along w The Cure that brought a ton of influences after them.
Garth and Shania to me changed everything too for Country and thought about adding them as well. I was at a Metallica show in 91 and they were chatting to the audience via screens backstage and Lars said chuckling "Who the fuck is Garth Brooks and why can't we beat him for #1 Album?!?" Metallica was HUGE at that time but Garth Brooks was a name I looked up because of that very reason. Why the hell isn't Metallica #1, lol!?!
I dig everything else. I don't think REM and Heads ever changed things though as good as they both were?
Yeah that is why I wavered on that last group. REM changed the way I listen to music, shifting from regular radio to college radio but agree, probably not game changer. I think all EDM and DJs flow back to Kraftwerk and Devo but agree that Daft Punk drove the popularity of Djs. And I have not forgot about the hot sauce! Still looking for the Louisiana - been out of stock for awhile.
Music in general or rock music? The Beatles are just in a class by themselves. GOAT. Hendrix changed the sound of rock n roll. Sex Pistols introduced something entirely new. Kraftwerk and Devo made music on synthesizers. Beastie Boys took rap global and transformed the genre with the samples. They do not get enough credit. Garth Brooks changed country music to appeal to the masses. I have never seen a more seismic shift in music than when Nevermind came out. Probably missing other artists, maybe Sabbath for metal, REM or Talking Heads as all time great "indie" bands.
I thought about Kraftwerk and Devo too but ended up w Daft Punk because of what they brought after them.
Also thought of adding Joy Division. They were the brooders along w The Cure that brought a ton of influences after them.
Garth and Shania to me changed everything too for Country and thought about adding them as well. I was at a Metallica show in 91 and they were chatting to the audience via screens backstage and Lars said chuckling "Who the fuck is Garth Brooks and why can't we beat him for #1 Album?!?" Metallica was HUGE at that time but Garth Brooks was a name I looked up because of that very reason. Why the hell isn't Metallica #1, lol!?!
I dig everything else. I don't think REM and Heads ever changed things though as good as they both were?
Yeah that is why I wavered on that last group. REM changed the way I listen to music, shifting from regular radio to college radio but agree, probably not game changer. I think all EDM and DJs flow back to Kraftwerk and Devo but agree that Daft Punk drove the popularity of Djs. And I have not forgot about the hot sauce! Still looking for the Louisiana - been out of stock for awhile.
HA! I need to post in the food thread this killer sauce I found. Go look over there!!!
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,760
Music in general or rock music? The Beatles are just in a class by themselves. GOAT. Hendrix changed the sound of rock n roll. Sex Pistols introduced something entirely new. Kraftwerk and Devo made music on synthesizers. Beastie Boys took rap global and transformed the genre with the samples. They do not get enough credit. Garth Brooks changed country music to appeal to the masses. I have never seen a more seismic shift in music than when Nevermind came out. Probably missing other artists, maybe Sabbath for metal, REM or Talking Heads as all time great "indie" bands.
I was thinking of rock music specifically. If we were to consider music in general, that would be a much more difficult and complicated question. We would have to look at music over all of known human history and then also take into account non-western music. I wouldn't know where to start with Middle-East, African, or Asian forms of music!
Good list, by the way, and kudos for mentioning Kraftwerk and Devo!
When I was in grad school I wrote a paper on ethnomusicology for an archaeology class. The paper traced the origins of different types of early musical instruments (flutes made out of bird bones, etc.). The paper also touched upon early expressions of music. So, we can trace the influences really far back.
Fascinating! Published by any change? Or maybe care to share some highlights? (Not meaning to pry or pressure, it's just intriguing that you wrote such an interesting paper!)
It wasn’t published. It was just a research paper for a class assignment. I have it somewhere. If I can find it I will share some info from it with you. It’s not on my computer so I will look for my printed version. I have saved most of my papers from grad school. I just have to dig it out.
No hurry of course, but thanks. It would no doubt be make for great reading!
Post edited by brianlux on
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,760
Over the last couple of years (including being immersed in one now, Moon, by Tony Fletcher), I read some really fine books relating to The Who. A couple of them pointed out something that fascinates me which is that one of the things that made The Who unique was that you had a guitar player who played his instruments like a drum, a drummer who played his kit like a guitar, a bass player who played his bass like a lead guitar, and a singer whose singing style changed and evolved along with Townshend's writing. In that way (and others, like creating rock operas), they made a huge impact on rock music.
That got me to thinking about which bands or musicians made greatest impact on rock and I decided to try to come up with five (and five only) who made the biggest impact. I came up with:
Elvis Presley. Elvis didn't really so much create new things in music, as he did stage presentation utilizing with his charismatic stage presence. Bob Dylan: By melding folk with rock and writing extended narrative songwriting, and poetry, Dylan expanded the scope of rock. The Who: As above. Jimi Hendrix: Hendrix not only changed the sonic quality of guitar playing and influenced countless players after him, but also melded blues, r&b, early rock, and psychedelia in new ways. And the Experience was, though not the first, probably the most visible early integrated band. The Sex Pistols: A hard 5th choice (the Clash and Ramones are strong considerations) because I really don't think the Pistols were either the first nor the best punk band, but they were the most visible and prototypical punk band.
I fully expect (hope, actually), others will have differing takes on this idea. Let's see what you come up with- hopefully with some reasoning for choices, and not just mere lists.
Brian.
Funny that I probably have over 20 Who related books including all the approved biographies and their all pretty damn good but, without a doubt Fletcher's Moon is my favorite! I was always glued to the pages he would speak of Moon and his metronome. It's too long to get into here but, for anyone interested check the book out and Tony will explain in many ways why Keith not Bonham or anyone else sat on the throne unparalleled. 😎
20 + Who books, very cool, Vito! I have just 6 Who books and Fletcher's is my fourth read- and like you say, quite a good one! At first, a 600 page biography seemed a bit daunting, but it flies right by and I'm enjoying every page! I also very much enjoyed Roger and Pete's memoirs. Now I need to track down a good Entwistle book. The Ox, maybe. Suggestions?
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Music in general or rock music? The Beatles are just in a class by themselves. GOAT. Hendrix changed the sound of rock n roll. Sex Pistols introduced something entirely new. Kraftwerk and Devo made music on synthesizers. Beastie Boys took rap global and transformed the genre with the samples. They do not get enough credit. Garth Brooks changed country music to appeal to the masses. I have never seen a more seismic shift in music than when Nevermind came out. Probably missing other artists, maybe Sabbath for metal, REM or Talking Heads as all time great "indie" bands.
While it's definitely true that the Beastie Boys were the first rap group that a LOT of people worldwide who were not otherwise listening to R&B and Soul heard, it's soooooo UNtrue that the Beastie Boys were THE GROUP who "transformed the genre with samples". Rap and Hip Hop from the time of their birth, Kool Herc was using samples in the 70s!! The use of samples for creating new music came way before the Beasties, and the Beasties were a PUNK band before they caught on to rap and figured out their part of that.
No question, the Beasties were incredibly talented, I was listening to "Paul's Boutique" the other day which has some amazing samples. But there are so many other rap artists who are more innovative and more legendary in terms of how samples were/are used, the Beastie Boys don't get more credit for that because they did not give birth to it nor are they the best at it. But they are damn good at it and I do love them.
I also saw Public Enemy open for the Beastie Boys on the Licensed to Ill tour... Unforgettable show, for so many reasons, but so glad I was there!
Music in general or rock music? The Beatles are just in a class by themselves. GOAT. Hendrix changed the sound of rock n roll. Sex Pistols introduced something entirely new. Kraftwerk and Devo made music on synthesizers. Beastie Boys took rap global and transformed the genre with the samples. They do not get enough credit. Garth Brooks changed country music to appeal to the masses. I have never seen a more seismic shift in music than when Nevermind came out. Probably missing other artists, maybe Sabbath for metal, REM or Talking Heads as all time great "indie" bands.
While it's definitely true that the Beastie Boys were the first rap group that a LOT of people worldwide who were not otherwise listening to R&B and Soul heard, it's soooooo UNtrue that the Beastie Boys were THE GROUP who "transformed the genre with samples". Rap and Hip Hop from the time of their birth, Kool Herc was using samples in the 70s!! The use of samples for creating new music came way before the Beasties, and the Beasties were a PUNK band before they caught on to rap and figured out their part of that.
No question, the Beasties were incredibly talented, I was listening to "Paul's Boutique" the other day which has some amazing samples. But there are so many other rap artists who are more innovative and more legendary in terms of how samples were/are used, the Beastie Boys don't get more credit for that because they did not give birth to it nor are they the best at it. But they are damn good at it and I do love them.
I also saw Public Enemy open for the Beastie Boys on the Licensed to Ill tour... Unforgettable show, for so many reasons, but so glad I was there!
Yeah. Props to the old schoolers for samples.
I always say that the Beasties don’t get enough cred, but it ain’t for sampling. Beasties and PE both used hired guns for their best sample albums. So while BB and PE were the names that were on the covers, it was Dust Brothers (Beasties) and Bomb Squad (PE) who did the heavy lifting re: samples.
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,760
I skate along the edge of being hypocritical when it comes to sampling. My biggest concern is that too often, the original artist is not compensated for having their work used and sometimes not even credited. I hope improvements have been made that way.
But that said, I really dig some of the sampling of Hendrix Beautiful People did.
Here you go, no one comes close to this man😎 What's strange for me is that I was underwhelmed by almost every book I have on them except Fletcher's Moon. I guess I felt I wasn't satified enough for anything that I already didn't know about them as a band and collectively. It was only when I went back and read each book a 2nd and even 3rd time that I came to appreciate them. Even more strange for me is that I feel PT's 'Who I Am' is the weakest and that's probably my fault cause with him being my artistic hero above all and such a fascinating writer there was no way my expectations could be met... When searching through google it shows it's available pretty much everywhere...
Post edited by vito on
ALPINE VALLEY MUSIC THEATRE 1992 SUMMERFEST MILWAUKEE 1995 ALPINE VALLEY MUSIC THEATRE 1998 UNITED CENTER CHICAGO1998 THOMPSON-BOLING ARENA KNOXVILLE 1998 ALPINE VALLEY MUSIC THEATRE 2000 ALLSTATE ARENA ROSEMONT 2000 ALPINE VALLEY MUSIC THEATRE 2003 HERSHEYPARK STADIUM 2003 TOLEDO SPORTS ARENA 2004 AIR CANADA CENTRE TORONTO 2005 UNITED CENTER CHICAGO 2006 UNITED CENTER CHICAGO 2006 VERIZON CENTER DC 2008 UNITED CENTER CHICAGO 2009 NATIONWIDE ARENA COLUMBUS 2010 PJ20 NIGHT 1 Alpine Valley Music Theatre 2011 PJ20 NIGHT 2 Alpine Valley Music Theatre 2011 1ST MARINER ARENA BALTIMORE 2013 IWIRELESS CENTER MOLINE 2014 XCEL ENERGY CENTER ST. PAUL 2014 CHICAGO 1 Wrigley Field 2016 CHICAGO 2 Wrigley Field 2016 CHICAGO 1 Wrigley Field 2018 CHICAGO 2 Wrigley Field 2018 BOSTON 2 Fenway Park 2018 ENTERPRISE CENTER SAINT LOUIS 2022 Eddie Vedder Auditorium Theatre CHICAGO 2008
Music in general or rock music? The Beatles are just in a class by themselves. GOAT. Hendrix changed the sound of rock n roll. Sex Pistols introduced something entirely new. Kraftwerk and Devo made music on synthesizers. Beastie Boys took rap global and transformed the genre with the samples. They do not get enough credit. Garth Brooks changed country music to appeal to the masses. I have never seen a more seismic shift in music than when Nevermind came out. Probably missing other artists, maybe Sabbath for metal, REM or Talking Heads as all time great "indie" bands.
While it's definitely true that the Beastie Boys were the first rap group that a LOT of people worldwide who were not otherwise listening to R&B and Soul heard, it's soooooo UNtrue that the Beastie Boys were THE GROUP who "transformed the genre with samples". Rap and Hip Hop from the time of their birth, Kool Herc was using samples in the 70s!! The use of samples for creating new music came way before the Beasties, and the Beasties were a PUNK band before they caught on to rap and figured out their part of that.
No question, the Beasties were incredibly talented, I was listening to "Paul's Boutique" the other day which has some amazing samples. But there are so many other rap artists who are more innovative and more legendary in terms of how samples were/are used, the Beastie Boys don't get more credit for that because they did not give birth to it nor are they the best at it. But they are damn good at it and I do love them.
I also saw Public Enemy open for the Beastie Boys on the Licensed to Ill tour... Unforgettable show, for so many reasons, but so glad I was there!
I agree others were using samples, but Paul's Boutique was something elevated. It was an entire record of meticulously blended multi layered samples and rapping. And agree the dust brothers deserve a TON of credit for the record.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,760
Here you go, no one comes close to this man😎 What's strange for me is that I was underwhelmed by almost every book I have on them except Fletcher's Moon. I guess I felt I wasn't satified enough for anything that I already didn't know about them as a band and collectively. It was only when I went back and read each book a 2nd and even 3rd time that I came to appreciate them. Even more strange for me is that I feel PT's 'Who I Am' is the weakest and that's probably my fault cause with him being my artistic hero above all and such a fascinating writer there was no way my expectations could be met... When searching through google it shows it's available pretty much everywhere...
Excellent! I will track down a copy.
I have read various criticisms of Pete's Who I Am but that's not surprising. For some reason, Pete is either loved or disdained. I thought his book was great.
Another book I have on PT is Geoffrey Giuliano's Behind Blue Eyes, The Life of Pete Townshend. I haven't read any reviews on that one but I have it, so may as well give it a go.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Music in general or rock music? The Beatles are just in a class by themselves. GOAT. Hendrix changed the sound of rock n roll. Sex Pistols introduced something entirely new. Kraftwerk and Devo made music on synthesizers. Beastie Boys took rap global and transformed the genre with the samples. They do not get enough credit. Garth Brooks changed country music to appeal to the masses. I have never seen a more seismic shift in music than when Nevermind came out. Probably missing other artists, maybe Sabbath for metal, REM or Talking Heads as all time great "indie" bands.
While it's definitely true that the Beastie Boys were the first rap group that a LOT of people worldwide who were not otherwise listening to R&B and Soul heard, it's soooooo UNtrue that the Beastie Boys were THE GROUP who "transformed the genre with samples". Rap and Hip Hop from the time of their birth, Kool Herc was using samples in the 70s!! The use of samples for creating new music came way before the Beasties, and the Beasties were a PUNK band before they caught on to rap and figured out their part of that.
No question, the Beasties were incredibly talented, I was listening to "Paul's Boutique" the other day which has some amazing samples. But there are so many other rap artists who are more innovative and more legendary in terms of how samples were/are used, the Beastie Boys don't get more credit for that because they did not give birth to it nor are they the best at it. But they are damn good at it and I do love them.
I also saw Public Enemy open for the Beastie Boys on the Licensed to Ill tour... Unforgettable show, for so many reasons, but so glad I was there!
I agree others were using samples, but Paul's Boutique was something elevated. It was an entire record of meticulously blended multi layered samples and rapping. And agree the dust brothers deserve a TON of credit for the record.
It's not just that "others were using samples", it's that if we're going to talk about which artists "changed music" or "changed rock", you said the Beastie Boys "transformed the genre with samples". That's just not true. The Dust Brothers added to the genre with their contributions, but they didn't use samples in any innovative way that makes them somehow a pioneer. They were just REALLY good at what they do.
Music in general or rock music? The Beatles are just in a class by themselves. GOAT. Hendrix changed the sound of rock n roll. Sex Pistols introduced something entirely new. Kraftwerk and Devo made music on synthesizers. Beastie Boys took rap global and transformed the genre with the samples. They do not get enough credit. Garth Brooks changed country music to appeal to the masses. I have never seen a more seismic shift in music than when Nevermind came out. Probably missing other artists, maybe Sabbath for metal, REM or Talking Heads as all time great "indie" bands.
While it's definitely true that the Beastie Boys were the first rap group that a LOT of people worldwide who were not otherwise listening to R&B and Soul heard, it's soooooo UNtrue that the Beastie Boys were THE GROUP who "transformed the genre with samples". Rap and Hip Hop from the time of their birth, Kool Herc was using samples in the 70s!! The use of samples for creating new music came way before the Beasties, and the Beasties were a PUNK band before they caught on to rap and figured out their part of that.
No question, the Beasties were incredibly talented, I was listening to "Paul's Boutique" the other day which has some amazing samples. But there are so many other rap artists who are more innovative and more legendary in terms of how samples were/are used, the Beastie Boys don't get more credit for that because they did not give birth to it nor are they the best at it. But they are damn good at it and I do love them.
I also saw Public Enemy open for the Beastie Boys on the Licensed to Ill tour... Unforgettable show, for so many reasons, but so glad I was there!
I agree others were using samples, but Paul's Boutique was something elevated. It was an entire record of meticulously blended multi layered samples and rapping. And agree the dust brothers deserve a TON of credit for the record.
It's not just that "others were using samples", it's that if we're going to talk about which artists "changed music" or "changed rock", you said the Beastie Boys "transformed the genre with samples". That's just not true. The Dust Brothers added to the genre with their contributions, but they didn't use samples in any innovative way that makes them somehow a pioneer. They were just REALLY good at what they do.
Music in general or rock music? The Beatles are just in a class by themselves. GOAT. Hendrix changed the sound of rock n roll. Sex Pistols introduced something entirely new. Kraftwerk and Devo made music on synthesizers. Beastie Boys took rap global and transformed the genre with the samples. They do not get enough credit. Garth Brooks changed country music to appeal to the masses. I have never seen a more seismic shift in music than when Nevermind came out. Probably missing other artists, maybe Sabbath for metal, REM or Talking Heads as all time great "indie" bands.
While it's definitely true that the Beastie Boys were the first rap group that a LOT of people worldwide who were not otherwise listening to R&B and Soul heard, it's soooooo UNtrue that the Beastie Boys were THE GROUP who "transformed the genre with samples". Rap and Hip Hop from the time of their birth, Kool Herc was using samples in the 70s!! The use of samples for creating new music came way before the Beasties, and the Beasties were a PUNK band before they caught on to rap and figured out their part of that.
No question, the Beasties were incredibly talented, I was listening to "Paul's Boutique" the other day which has some amazing samples. But there are so many other rap artists who are more innovative and more legendary in terms of how samples were/are used, the Beastie Boys don't get more credit for that because they did not give birth to it nor are they the best at it. But they are damn good at it and I do love them.
I also saw Public Enemy open for the Beastie Boys on the Licensed to Ill tour... Unforgettable show, for so many reasons, but so glad I was there!
I agree others were using samples, but Paul's Boutique was something elevated. It was an entire record of meticulously blended multi layered samples and rapping. And agree the dust brothers deserve a TON of credit for the record.
It's not just that "others were using samples", it's that if we're going to talk about which artists "changed music" or "changed rock", you said the Beastie Boys "transformed the genre with samples". That's just not true. The Dust Brothers added to the genre with their contributions, but they didn't use samples in any innovative way that makes them somehow a pioneer. They were just REALLY good at what they do.
Send me a song.
A Dust Brothers song? Or a song by who?
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,760
Though not necessarily in the top 5, another person who had a huge impact on rock music is Brian Eno (particularly his work with Robert Fripp as well as with Bowie and Talking Heads), as much for his production and recording techniques as for his song writing and incorporation of unusual elements. He also developed a kind of early version of surround sound (which I've tried and it does work to some degree) which is illustrated on the back cover of Ambient 4: On Land. I think most people familiar with Eno's work would agree Another Green World is Eno at his peak. Eno is a true visionary.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Music in general or rock music? The Beatles are just in a class by themselves. GOAT. Hendrix changed the sound of rock n roll. Sex Pistols introduced something entirely new. Kraftwerk and Devo made music on synthesizers. Beastie Boys took rap global and transformed the genre with the samples. They do not get enough credit. Garth Brooks changed country music to appeal to the masses. I have never seen a more seismic shift in music than when Nevermind came out. Probably missing other artists, maybe Sabbath for metal, REM or Talking Heads as all time great "indie" bands.
While it's definitely true that the Beastie Boys were the first rap group that a LOT of people worldwide who were not otherwise listening to R&B and Soul heard, it's soooooo UNtrue that the Beastie Boys were THE GROUP who "transformed the genre with samples". Rap and Hip Hop from the time of their birth, Kool Herc was using samples in the 70s!! The use of samples for creating new music came way before the Beasties, and the Beasties were a PUNK band before they caught on to rap and figured out their part of that.
No question, the Beasties were incredibly talented, I was listening to "Paul's Boutique" the other day which has some amazing samples. But there are so many other rap artists who are more innovative and more legendary in terms of how samples were/are used, the Beastie Boys don't get more credit for that because they did not give birth to it nor are they the best at it. But they are damn good at it and I do love them.
I also saw Public Enemy open for the Beastie Boys on the Licensed to Ill tour... Unforgettable show, for so many reasons, but so glad I was there!
I agree others were using samples, but Paul's Boutique was something elevated. It was an entire record of meticulously blended multi layered samples and rapping. And agree the dust brothers deserve a TON of credit for the record.
It's not just that "others were using samples", it's that if we're going to talk about which artists "changed music" or "changed rock", you said the Beastie Boys "transformed the genre with samples". That's just not true. The Dust Brothers added to the genre with their contributions, but they didn't use samples in any innovative way that makes them somehow a pioneer. They were just REALLY good at what they do.
Though not necessarily in the top 5, another person who had a huge impact on rock music is Brian Eno (particularly his work with Robert Fripp as well as with Bowie and Talking Heads), as much for his production and recording techniques as for his song writing and incorporation of unusual elements. He also developed a kind of early version of surround sound (which I've tried and it does work to some degree) which is illustrated on the back cover of Ambient 4: On Land. I think most people familiar with Eno's work would agree Another Green World is Eno at his peak. Eno is a true visionary.
For whatever reason I have this weird quirk that when I see/hear Brian Enos name I think of the band Endinos Earthworm. They have zero to do w each other but I link them together...
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,760
Though not necessarily in the top 5, another person who had a huge impact on rock music is Brian Eno (particularly his work with Robert Fripp as well as with Bowie and Talking Heads), as much for his production and recording techniques as for his song writing and incorporation of unusual elements. He also developed a kind of early version of surround sound (which I've tried and it does work to some degree) which is illustrated on the back cover of Ambient 4: On Land. I think most people familiar with Eno's work would agree Another Green World is Eno at his peak. Eno is a true visionary.
For whatever reason I have this weird quirk that when I see/hear Brian Enos name I think of the band Endinos Earthworm. They have zero to do w each other but I link them together...
Never heard of Endinos Earthworm. Will have to check them out.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Music in general or rock music? The Beatles are just in a class by themselves. GOAT. Hendrix changed the sound of rock n roll. Sex Pistols introduced something entirely new. Kraftwerk and Devo made music on synthesizers. Beastie Boys took rap global and transformed the genre with the samples. They do not get enough credit. Garth Brooks changed country music to appeal to the masses. I have never seen a more seismic shift in music than when Nevermind came out. Probably missing other artists, maybe Sabbath for metal, REM or Talking Heads as all time great "indie" bands.
While it's definitely true that the Beastie Boys were the first rap group that a LOT of people worldwide who were not otherwise listening to R&B and Soul heard, it's soooooo UNtrue that the Beastie Boys were THE GROUP who "transformed the genre with samples". Rap and Hip Hop from the time of their birth, Kool Herc was using samples in the 70s!! The use of samples for creating new music came way before the Beasties, and the Beasties were a PUNK band before they caught on to rap and figured out their part of that.
No question, the Beasties were incredibly talented, I was listening to "Paul's Boutique" the other day which has some amazing samples. But there are so many other rap artists who are more innovative and more legendary in terms of how samples were/are used, the Beastie Boys don't get more credit for that because they did not give birth to it nor are they the best at it. But they are damn good at it and I do love them.
I also saw Public Enemy open for the Beastie Boys on the Licensed to Ill tour... Unforgettable show, for so many reasons, but so glad I was there!
I agree others were using samples, but Paul's Boutique was something elevated. It was an entire record of meticulously blended multi layered samples and rapping. And agree the dust brothers deserve a TON of credit for the record.
It's not just that "others were using samples", it's that if we're going to talk about which artists "changed music" or "changed rock", you said the Beastie Boys "transformed the genre with samples". That's just not true. The Dust Brothers added to the genre with their contributions, but they didn't use samples in any innovative way that makes them somehow a pioneer. They were just REALLY good at what they do.
Send me a song.
A Dust Brothers song? Or a song by who?
Send me a song in support of your position.
My position is that actual history is cool. Looking at things chronologically. The Beastie Boys did not "transform the genre with samples", because samples, originally in the form of "breaks", "transformed the genre" of urban music and later rock LONG before the Beastie Boys even decided they were a rap act and not a punk band.
I can simply send you any rap song before the Beastie's first release that features samples. You do know that there were an abundance of rap records featuring samples before the Beasties ever made one, yes?
I could post countless songs... but honestly I don't need to post a song to show actual documented recorded history, all you have to do is read these for starters:
So if you dispute that the genre that has come to be known as rap & hip hop, and urban music beyond that, and then rock eventually, was transformed by samples starting with Kool Herc in the 70s, (and before Kool Herc the true origins of samples were JAZZ music!), what can you point to to support your position that the Beasties should get the credit? Because what I've said isn't a position, it's music history, which is chronological in nature, in case you aren't really down yet with the whole "history" angle...
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,760
Am I the only one here who sees rock and rap/hip hop as being two distinct genres in music?
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Comments
Patti is definitely a goddess among female musicians. I feel inclined to want to give a shout for Lauri Anderson as well. Her album Big Science still sounds massively inventive to me.
The Beatles are just in a class by themselves. GOAT.
Hendrix changed the sound of rock n roll.
Sex Pistols introduced something entirely new.
Kraftwerk and Devo made music on synthesizers.
Beastie Boys took rap global and transformed the genre with the samples. They do not get enough credit.
Garth Brooks changed country music to appeal to the masses.
I have never seen a more seismic shift in music than when Nevermind came out.
Probably missing other artists, maybe Sabbath for metal, REM or Talking Heads as all time great "indie" bands.
Fascinating! Published by any change? Or maybe care to share some highlights? (Not meaning to pry or pressure, it's just intriguing that you wrote such an interesting paper!)
Funny that I probably have over 20 Who related books including all the approved biographies and their all pretty damn good but, without a doubt Fletcher's Moon is my favorite! I was always glued to the pages he would speak of Moon and his metronome. It's too long to get into here but, for anyone interested check the book out and Tony will explain in many ways why Keith not Bonham or anyone else sat on the throne unparalleled. 😎
SUMMERFEST MILWAUKEE 1995
ALPINE VALLEY MUSIC THEATRE 1998
UNITED CENTER CHICAGO1998
THOMPSON-BOLING ARENA KNOXVILLE 1998
ALPINE VALLEY MUSIC THEATRE 2000
ALLSTATE ARENA ROSEMONT 2000
ALPINE VALLEY MUSIC THEATRE 2003
HERSHEYPARK STADIUM 2003
TOLEDO SPORTS ARENA 2004
AIR CANADA CENTRE TORONTO 2005
UNITED CENTER CHICAGO 2006
UNITED CENTER CHICAGO 2006
VERIZON CENTER DC 2008
UNITED CENTER CHICAGO 2009
NATIONWIDE ARENA COLUMBUS 2010
PJ20 NIGHT 1 Alpine Valley Music Theatre 2011
PJ20 NIGHT 2 Alpine Valley Music Theatre 2011
1ST MARINER ARENA BALTIMORE 2013
IWIRELESS CENTER MOLINE 2014
XCEL ENERGY CENTER ST. PAUL 2014
CHICAGO 1 Wrigley Field 2016
CHICAGO 2 Wrigley Field 2016
CHICAGO 1 Wrigley Field 2018
CHICAGO 2 Wrigley Field 2018
BOSTON 2 Fenway Park 2018
ENTERPRISE CENTER SAINT LOUIS 2022
Eddie Vedder Auditorium Theatre CHICAGO 2008
Also thought of adding Joy Division. They were the brooders along w The Cure that brought a ton of influences after them.
Garth and Shania to me changed everything too for Country and thought about adding them as well. I was at a Metallica show in 91 and they were chatting to the audience via screens backstage and Lars said chuckling "Who the fuck is Garth Brooks and why can't we beat him for #1 Album?!?" Metallica was HUGE at that time but Garth Brooks was a name I looked up because of that very reason. Why the hell isn't Metallica #1, lol!?!
I dig everything else. I don't think REM and Heads ever changed things though as good as they both were?
No hurry of course, but thanks. It would no doubt be make for great reading!
20 + Who books, very cool, Vito! I have just 6 Who books and Fletcher's is my fourth read- and like you say, quite a good one! At first, a 600 page biography seemed a bit daunting, but it flies right by and I'm enjoying every page! I also very much enjoyed Roger and Pete's memoirs. Now I need to track down a good Entwistle book. The Ox, maybe. Suggestions?
No question, the Beasties were incredibly talented, I was listening to "Paul's Boutique" the other day which has some amazing samples. But there are so many other rap artists who are more innovative and more legendary in terms of how samples were/are used, the Beastie Boys don't get more credit for that because they did not give birth to it nor are they the best at it. But they are damn good at it and I do love them.
I also saw Public Enemy open for the Beastie Boys on the Licensed to Ill tour... Unforgettable show, for so many reasons, but so glad I was there!
When searching through google it shows it's available pretty much everywhere...
SUMMERFEST MILWAUKEE 1995
ALPINE VALLEY MUSIC THEATRE 1998
UNITED CENTER CHICAGO1998
THOMPSON-BOLING ARENA KNOXVILLE 1998
ALPINE VALLEY MUSIC THEATRE 2000
ALLSTATE ARENA ROSEMONT 2000
ALPINE VALLEY MUSIC THEATRE 2003
HERSHEYPARK STADIUM 2003
TOLEDO SPORTS ARENA 2004
AIR CANADA CENTRE TORONTO 2005
UNITED CENTER CHICAGO 2006
UNITED CENTER CHICAGO 2006
VERIZON CENTER DC 2008
UNITED CENTER CHICAGO 2009
NATIONWIDE ARENA COLUMBUS 2010
PJ20 NIGHT 1 Alpine Valley Music Theatre 2011
PJ20 NIGHT 2 Alpine Valley Music Theatre 2011
1ST MARINER ARENA BALTIMORE 2013
IWIRELESS CENTER MOLINE 2014
XCEL ENERGY CENTER ST. PAUL 2014
CHICAGO 1 Wrigley Field 2016
CHICAGO 2 Wrigley Field 2016
CHICAGO 1 Wrigley Field 2018
CHICAGO 2 Wrigley Field 2018
BOSTON 2 Fenway Park 2018
ENTERPRISE CENTER SAINT LOUIS 2022
Eddie Vedder Auditorium Theatre CHICAGO 2008
I agree others were using samples, but Paul's Boutique was something elevated. It was an entire record of meticulously blended multi layered samples and rapping. And agree the dust brothers deserve a TON of credit for the record.
Send me a song.
Eno is a true visionary.
Send me a song in support of your position.
Dublin 2010
Madrid 2018
Werchter 2022
London 1 2022
London 2 2022
Krakow 2022
Never heard of Endinos Earthworm. Will have to check them out.
I can simply send you any rap song before the Beastie's first release that features samples. You do know that there were an abundance of rap records featuring samples before the Beasties ever made one, yes?
I could post countless songs... but honestly I don't need to post a song to show actual documented recorded history, all you have to do is read these for starters:
https://www.thomann.de/blog/en/a-brief-history-of-sampling/
https://etmonline.org/stories/hiphophistory/#
So if you dispute that the genre that has come to be known as rap & hip hop, and urban music beyond that, and then rock eventually, was transformed by samples starting with Kool Herc in the 70s, (and before Kool Herc the true origins of samples were JAZZ music!), what can you point to to support your position that the Beasties should get the credit? Because what I've said isn't a position, it's music history, which is chronological in nature, in case you aren't really down yet with the whole "history" angle...