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  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,972
    mrussel1 said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/21/nyregion/lee-zeldin-attacked-campaign-event.html

    Guy is already back in the streets because you know, why not? 
    He is being charged with second degree assault, not attempted murder.  Do you think second degree assault should mean someone is held until trial?
    Interesting how they determine charges....cause what was the intent?
    hippiemom = goodness
  • nicknyr15
    nicknyr15 Posts: 9,464
    cincybearcat said:
    mrussel1 said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/21/nyregion/lee-zeldin-attacked-campaign-event.html

    Guy is already back in the streets because you know, why not? 
    He is being charged with second degree assault, not attempted murder.  Do you think second degree assault should mean someone is held until trial?
    Interesting how they determine charges....cause what was the intent?
    I think he literally said “you’re done” to him. 
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,981
    I have no idea.  Remember each state has its own statutory definitions of crimes, so one state's first degree felony could be another's third, etc.  

    So if you put that aside, is it better that he's out until his trial on his own recognizance vs posting $10k?  I don't know, but that's the issue at hand here.  There was zero chance that a second degree assault gets you held without bail in any state in this union.  
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,972
    mrussel1 said:
    I have no idea.  Remember each state has its own statutory definitions of crimes, so one state's first degree felony could be another's third, etc.  

    So if you put that aside, is it better that he's out until his trial on his own recognizance vs posting $10k?  I don't know, but that's the issue at hand here.  There was zero chance that a second degree assault gets you held without bail in any state in this union.  
    Don't know the law there...but if I was King...I would make it mandatory to hold someone for at a minimum of 3 days if they attack someone with a weapon.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,948
    bannon guilty on both counts.

    looking at minimum 60 days, maximum 2 years.

    so much for the "misdemeanor from hell."
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Bentleyspop
    Bentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, Colorado Posts: 11,669
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    bannon guilty on both counts.

    looking at minimum 60 days, maximum 2 years.

    so much for the "misdemeanor from hell."
    The real punishment should be solitary or put in a cell block made up primarily of men of color. And don't  let him anywhere near the ABs. 
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 45,296

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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 43,237
    Couldn’t have said it better myself.

    https://www.salon.com/2022/07/23/liz-cheneys-smug-self-satisfied-con-job-dont-fall-for-it/
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR; 05/03/2025, New Orleans, LA;

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  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,448
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    Couldn’t have said it better myself.

    https://www.salon.com/2022/07/23/liz-cheneys-smug-self-satisfied-con-job-dont-fall-for-it/
    Cheney still has shown spine and commitment to truth-seeking where her peers have shown none (even if far too late), and is deserving of credit for that - McCarthey and McConnell are living proof that you could have condemned Jan 6 at the time and flip-flop without much political cost amongst Republicans.

    Clearly her actions can't be about getting in good standing with the current set of guards in the Republican party. Instead, if her actions are a gamble on a reconstructed Republican party which would be accepting of indicting a sitting President of their own party if the facts showed it was warranted - I still think it would be a net benefit for the country. A Republican party accepting of inconvenient facts is better than current-state.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 43,237
    benjs said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    Couldn’t have said it better myself.

    https://www.salon.com/2022/07/23/liz-cheneys-smug-self-satisfied-con-job-dont-fall-for-it/
    Cheney still has shown spine and commitment to truth-seeking where her peers have shown none (even if far too late), and is deserving of credit for that - McCarthey and McConnell are living proof that you could have condemned Jan 6 at the time and flip-flop without much political cost amongst Republicans.

    Clearly her actions can't be about getting in good standing with the current set of guards in the Republican party. Instead, if her actions are a gamble on a reconstructed Republican party which would be accepting of indicting a sitting President of their own party if the facts showed it was warranted - I still think it would be a net benefit for the country. A Republican party accepting of inconvenient facts is better than current-state.
    I agree with your last sentence but let’s not be fooled by what a Liz Cheney repub party would implement. The time to have been a hero for any repub was 2015-2016 and not nominating POOTWH. They all sold their souls to keep Hillary out of the oval and could have had everything they claim they got with POOTWH with any other repub candidate as POTUS, namely tax cuts, SCOTUS appointments and probably a better Covid response, although I’m not certain of that. Might have held the house and increased their senate majority as well.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR; 05/03/2025, New Orleans, LA;

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  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,448
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    benjs said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    Couldn’t have said it better myself.

    https://www.salon.com/2022/07/23/liz-cheneys-smug-self-satisfied-con-job-dont-fall-for-it/
    Cheney still has shown spine and commitment to truth-seeking where her peers have shown none (even if far too late), and is deserving of credit for that - McCarthey and McConnell are living proof that you could have condemned Jan 6 at the time and flip-flop without much political cost amongst Republicans.

    Clearly her actions can't be about getting in good standing with the current set of guards in the Republican party. Instead, if her actions are a gamble on a reconstructed Republican party which would be accepting of indicting a sitting President of their own party if the facts showed it was warranted - I still think it would be a net benefit for the country. A Republican party accepting of inconvenient facts is better than current-state.
    I agree with your last sentence but let’s not be fooled by what a Liz Cheney repub party would implement. The time to have been a hero for any repub was 2015-2016 and not nominating POOTWH. They all sold their souls to keep Hillary out of the oval and could have had everything they claim they got with POOTWH with any other repub candidate as POTUS, namely tax cuts, SCOTUS appointments and probably a better Covid response, although I’m not certain of that. Might have held the house and increased their senate majority as well.
    For sure the bravery would've been nice years ago. My point is just this: rather than treating this like a Trojan horse, when two Republicans are showing signs of decency (at a cost to their own reputations, not just playing from the sidelines), I say give 'em props, reiterate that it's what true leadership looks like, ask for more, and criticize them when they don't deliver that. I hope that's the approach Democrats take on the topic.

    This polarized environment where half the country's leadership refuses to engage with each other half in good faith has to stop, and I think this could be a good launchpad for that.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 43,237
    benjs said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    benjs said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    Couldn’t have said it better myself.

    https://www.salon.com/2022/07/23/liz-cheneys-smug-self-satisfied-con-job-dont-fall-for-it/
    Cheney still has shown spine and commitment to truth-seeking where her peers have shown none (even if far too late), and is deserving of credit for that - McCarthey and McConnell are living proof that you could have condemned Jan 6 at the time and flip-flop without much political cost amongst Republicans.

    Clearly her actions can't be about getting in good standing with the current set of guards in the Republican party. Instead, if her actions are a gamble on a reconstructed Republican party which would be accepting of indicting a sitting President of their own party if the facts showed it was warranted - I still think it would be a net benefit for the country. A Republican party accepting of inconvenient facts is better than current-state.
    I agree with your last sentence but let’s not be fooled by what a Liz Cheney repub party would implement. The time to have been a hero for any repub was 2015-2016 and not nominating POOTWH. They all sold their souls to keep Hillary out of the oval and could have had everything they claim they got with POOTWH with any other repub candidate as POTUS, namely tax cuts, SCOTUS appointments and probably a better Covid response, although I’m not certain of that. Might have held the house and increased their senate majority as well.
    For sure the bravery would've been nice years ago. My point is just this: rather than treating this like a Trojan horse, when two Republicans are showing signs of decency (at a cost to their own reputations, not just playing from the sidelines), I say give 'em props, reiterate that it's what true leadership looks like, ask for more, and criticize them when they don't deliver that. I hope that's the approach Democrats take on the topic.

    This polarized environment where half the country's leadership refuses to engage with each other half in good faith has to stop, and I think this could be a good launchpad for that.
    While I wish for the same, those that are willing to do what you propose, the Romneys and Cheneys of the party are the outliers and the flip flopper extremists like McCarthy and Moscow Mitchy Baby are the norm and aren’t going away. Kinzinger is resigning by not running again after his district was gerrymandered and Liz is likely to be defeated by a POOTWH supporter. These people have no interest in working across the aisle. How do you “compromise,” remember, that’s a dirty word, with folks like that? Give them everything they want? Do nothing and their power and influence grows? Dems switching parties to vote in repub primaries to defeat the extremists? Don’t forget, POOTWHISM has infected all levels of politics, particularly at the local level. Who wants to subject themselves to that as a candidate?
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR; 05/03/2025, New Orleans, LA;

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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 43,237
    Example A:

    https://apple.news/AlyOMUqseQiOWeJuaP3RjJA
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR; 05/03/2025, New Orleans, LA;

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  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,948
    i am sick of democrats compromising on everything. the gop is the minority party and for some reason they are setting the fucking agenda at every turn.

    they lost the election and are STILL getting their way on every single issue.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,972
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    i am sick of democrats compromising on everything. the gop is the minority party and for some reason they are setting the fucking agenda at every turn.

    they lost the election and are STILL getting their way on every single issue.
    I think many people misunderstood what the Dems that won were actually being asked to do…
    hippiemom = goodness
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,948
    cincybearcat said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    i am sick of democrats compromising on everything. the gop is the minority party and for some reason they are setting the fucking agenda at every turn.

    they lost the election and are STILL getting their way on every single issue.
    I think many people misunderstood what the Dems that won were actually being asked to do…
    you mean they did not know that they were not sent to dc to just roll over on every single issue of consequence?

    if that is the case they need to elect better people with better political instincts that know how to legislate while being in the majority.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,972
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    cincybearcat said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    i am sick of democrats compromising on everything. the gop is the minority party and for some reason they are setting the fucking agenda at every turn.

    they lost the election and are STILL getting their way on every single issue.
    I think many people misunderstood what the Dems that won were actually being asked to do…
    you mean they did not know that they were not sent to dc to just roll over on every single issue of consequence?

    if that is the case they need to elect better people with better political instincts that know how to legislate while being in the majority.
    No, that they weren’t given some mandate for a far left progressive agenda
    hippiemom = goodness
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,948
    cincybearcat said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    cincybearcat said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    i am sick of democrats compromising on everything. the gop is the minority party and for some reason they are setting the fucking agenda at every turn.

    they lost the election and are STILL getting their way on every single issue.
    I think many people misunderstood what the Dems that won were actually being asked to do…
    you mean they did not know that they were not sent to dc to just roll over on every single issue of consequence?

    if that is the case they need to elect better people with better political instincts that know how to legislate while being in the majority.
    No, that they weren’t given some mandate for a far left progressive agenda
    so build back better, infrastructure, and common sense gun laws, and things like that are the far left now?
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,948
    they were not sent there to do nothing, which is what they are doing now.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 45,296
    the majority in the senate is a figment of our imagination. only on paper do dems have the senate. as minority leader mcconnell controls the senate. thats just plain fact. and 2 of the vital D votes want to hold up legislation for their own bullshit reasons. just what the fuck do you expect them to be able to get accomplished? seriously.

     gimme, some of your posts come across as wildly naive to the reality as it is. wake up from your fantasy.

    one party is singular in its objectives and have the rank and file willing to go along.

    the other is a coalition of what can be described as competing interests and seem to have to get their way or fuck whatever progress can be had.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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