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Good summary from Bulwark about the Fox texts related to the Dominion case. No surprises of course, nothing that someone with a modicum of critical thinking can't pick out. But it's nice to see it locked in.
What a country, that ‘Murica, where POS like Maggie Three Names, Matt Getts Off and Santaria get elected and are placed in positions of power. And Faux continues on as if nothing has happened. When will this national nightmare end?
That they have concerns that haven't been addressed by the other party and have been deceived by the bloviating and empty promises of the one they are voting for.
Scio me nihil scire
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,288
That they have concerns that haven't been addressed by the other party and have been deceived by the bloviating and empty promises of the one they are voting for.
Or...I think the other party has and still does address their concerns regarding things that matter, but they continually vote against their own interests because they are overly invested in culture war bullshit that the right wing media has force-fed down their throats for three decades.
^This stupid pledge of allegiance thing illustrates this pretty nicely.
Edit--The Fox / Dominion case also illustrates this in a way.
That they have concerns that haven't been addressed by the other party and have been deceived by the bloviating and empty promises of the one they are voting for.
"fool me once, shame on you. fool me 30 election cycles in a row, blame it on obama."
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
That they have concerns that haven't been addressed by the other party and have been deceived by the bloviating and empty promises of the one they are voting for.
Or...I think the other party has and still does address their concerns regarding things that matter, but they continually vote against their own interests because they are overly invested in culture war bullshit that the right wing media has force-fed down their throats for three decades.
^This stupid pledge of allegiance thing illustrates this pretty nicely.
Edit--The Fox / Dominion case also illustrates this in a way.
I think the concerns about the loss of good paying jobs due to offshoring and all of the unintended consequences that destabilized many rural and urban areas, followed by the economic blight, the replacement of all the jobs by lower paying service work or big box jobs like amazon. Then wealthy people and companies buying cheap real estate and jacking up the market value thus displacing and destabilizing more people and making housing unaffordable. Along with rising costs of everything and inflation, hasn't really been adequately addressed by either party. The Dems do more but it is piecemeal and for desperate people, the long game to fix this doesn't seem like a good option.
So even though the R's do absolutely nothing, they talk big and gather the votes through messaging and yes some culture war stuff.
Obviously transnational capital with unfettered access to free trade having more power than a disconnected global working class is more to blame than any political party.
Sure people continue being fooled, but that is partially due to a lack of a functioning education system, and a glomming of half of the US population as deplorable. But with few material benefits in the way of stability etc coupled with the republican rage based messaging it is easy to see why they cling to the hope of the hollow pie in the sky promises that R's present.
What's the solution? Better D messaging, when possible bigger material benefits through legislation. Though with people like Manchin and Cinema you can't even get that through the party not to mention the impasses involved with getting anything done by with the opposing party.
Sure they are fired up by the culture war, but I think that is just something that they can hold on to and understand. Give people actual prosperity, time with their families, the chance to not be living a financially precarious life, then that culture war shit will fade in to the background. This is beyond just the government and would take a cultural shift along with companies putting people before profits, which is pretty unrealistic. So we are probably fucked. Least of all by some voters that have been deceived.
Scio me nihil scire
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
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Options
The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,288
edited March 2023
"So even though the R's do absolutely nothing, they talk big and gather the votes through messaging and yes some culture war stuff."
It is almost all culture war stuff. They spent the last election talking about that instead of things that matter. Now that they barely have power, what are they holding hearings about? Mostly bullshit culture war stuff that will not better anyone's lives. It's the entirety of the GOP's agenda right now. They have no solutions so their response is to continually gin up their base over and over and over and over again. You brought up sending jobs over seas. Obviously that's not just one party doing that. But you know what would bring jobs back to rural areas? Greener, clean energy. That's obviously the future---yet any mention of that stuff goes right out the window for the GOP's constituents because the GOP has successfully made that, something that very likely will turn out to be a life or death issue at some point in the future, a culture war issue. In a perfect world America would be leading this charge, instead we are watching the rest of the world lap us primarily because the GOP is holding us back.
Lowering taxes for middle and lower income, social security/medicare, healthcare etc etc---these are the issues that matter to people. And time and time again, the GOP successfully gets their base to vote against their better interests because they are better at manipulating their base into believing bullshit.
"So even though the R's do absolutely nothing, they talk big and gather the votes through messaging and yes some culture war stuff."
It is almost all culture war stuff. They spent the last election talking about that instead of things that matter. Now that they barely have power, what are they holding hearings about? Mostly bullshit culture war stuff that will not better anyone's lives. It's the entirety of the GOP's agenda right now. They have no solutions so their response is to continually gin up their base over and over and over and over again. You brought up sending jobs over seas. Obviously that's not just one party doing that. But you know what would bring jobs back to rural areas? Greener, clean energy. That's obviously the future---yet any mention of that stuff goes right out the window for the GOP's constituents because the GOP has successfully made that, something that very likely will turn out to be a life or death issue at some point in the future, a culture war issue. In a perfect world America would be leading this charge, instead we are watching the rest of the world lap us primarily because the GOP is holding us back.
Lowering taxes for middle and lower income, social security/medicare, healthcare etc etc---these are the issues that matter to people. And time and time again, the GOP successfully gets their base to vote against their better interests because they are better at manipulating their base into believing bullshit.
What I mean to say is I don't think the culture war stuff is as important to the typical R voter than the false promises of prosperity. The politicians bookend the culture war stuff as the real reason that the prosperity doesn't exist. So the enemy of the prosperity of the R voter becomes, Drag queens, gays, minorities etc. But the vacant bill of goods they are clinging to is that this prosperity will exist, if only...
I have no argument that the politicians of that party aren't depraved lunatics that are holding back the country and their constituents.
My point is it is really easy to shit on rank and file Republican voters, but it doesn't do anything except maybe allow us each individually to vent some rage that we can't offload directly on MTG, Chip Roy, Jordan, Gaetz etc. Believe me I've done it, I know how good it feels, but the results are as empty as GOP promises.
I am coming to a place where I am wanting to have compassion and when possible have individual dialogues with people. Sure I will continue to vote D for incremental change and advise against people voting for R's, but I'm done crapping on people that have been deceived to vote against their best interests. Especially when I believe that the current problems facing national and global society can't simply be legislated away or solved by statistically data driven analysis.
One thing the right doesn't get wrong is that there is a sickness in our culture, but it's just a lack of love and compassion and not choice and free expression that is causing the sickness.
"So even though the R's do absolutely nothing, they talk big and gather the votes through messaging and yes some culture war stuff."
It is almost all culture war stuff. They spent the last election talking about that instead of things that matter. Now that they barely have power, what are they holding hearings about? Mostly bullshit culture war stuff that will not better anyone's lives. It's the entirety of the GOP's agenda right now. They have no solutions so their response is to continually gin up their base over and over and over and over again. You brought up sending jobs over seas. Obviously that's not just one party doing that. But you know what would bring jobs back to rural areas? Greener, clean energy. That's obviously the future---yet any mention of that stuff goes right out the window for the GOP's constituents because the GOP has successfully made that, something that very likely will turn out to be a life or death issue at some point in the future, a culture war issue. In a perfect world America would be leading this charge, instead we are watching the rest of the world lap us primarily because the GOP is holding us back.
Lowering taxes for middle and lower income, social security/medicare, healthcare etc etc---these are the issues that matter to people. And time and time again, the GOP successfully gets their base to vote against their better interests because they are better at manipulating their base into believing bullshit.
What I mean to say is I don't think the culture war stuff is as important to the typical R voter than the false promises of prosperity. The politicians bookend the culture war stuff as the real reason that the prosperity doesn't exist. So the enemy of the prosperity of the R voter becomes, Drag queens, gays, minorities etc. But the vacant bill of goods they are clinging to is that this prosperity will exist, if only...
I have no argument that the politicians of that party aren't depraved lunatics that are holding back the country and their constituents.
My point is it is really easy to shit on rank and file Republican voters, but it doesn't do anything except maybe allow us each individually to vent some rage that we can't offload directly on MTG, Chip Roy, Jordan, Gaetz etc. Believe me I've done it, I know how good it feels, but the results are as empty as GOP promises.
I am coming to a place where I am wanting to have compassion and when possible have individual dialogues with people. Sure I will continue to vote D for incremental change and advise against people voting for R's, but I'm done crapping on people that have been deceived to vote against their best interests. Especially when I believe that the current problems facing national and global society can't simply be legislated away or solved by statistically data driven analysis.
One thing the right doesn't get wrong is that there is a sickness in our culture, but it's just a lack of love and compassion and not choice and free expression that is causing the sickness.
I'm 100% with you on this. I vote against my best interest all the time. Why wouldn't others? And yes, lack of compassion and empathy is a rampant problem. But what I find is that how most people act one of one is far different than they act in a group or online. Why can't people show that respect and empathy in all situations, in group settings? Drives me nuts.
"So even though the R's do absolutely nothing, they talk big and gather the votes through messaging and yes some culture war stuff."
It is almost all culture war stuff. They spent the last election talking about that instead of things that matter. Now that they barely have power, what are they holding hearings about? Mostly bullshit culture war stuff that will not better anyone's lives. It's the entirety of the GOP's agenda right now. They have no solutions so their response is to continually gin up their base over and over and over and over again. You brought up sending jobs over seas. Obviously that's not just one party doing that. But you know what would bring jobs back to rural areas? Greener, clean energy. That's obviously the future---yet any mention of that stuff goes right out the window for the GOP's constituents because the GOP has successfully made that, something that very likely will turn out to be a life or death issue at some point in the future, a culture war issue. In a perfect world America would be leading this charge, instead we are watching the rest of the world lap us primarily because the GOP is holding us back.
Lowering taxes for middle and lower income, social security/medicare, healthcare etc etc---these are the issues that matter to people. And time and time again, the GOP successfully gets their base to vote against their better interests because they are better at manipulating their base into believing bullshit.
What I mean to say is I don't think the culture war stuff is as important to the typical R voter than the false promises of prosperity. The politicians bookend the culture war stuff as the real reason that the prosperity doesn't exist. So the enemy of the prosperity of the R voter becomes, Drag queens, gays, minorities etc. But the vacant bill of goods they are clinging to is that this prosperity will exist, if only...
I have no argument that the politicians of that party aren't depraved lunatics that are holding back the country and their constituents.
My point is it is really easy to shit on rank and file Republican voters, but it doesn't do anything except maybe allow us each individually to vent some rage that we can't offload directly on MTG, Chip Roy, Jordan, Gaetz etc. Believe me I've done it, I know how good it feels, but the results are as empty as GOP promises.
I am coming to a place where I am wanting to have compassion and when possible have individual dialogues with people. Sure I will continue to vote D for incremental change and advise against people voting for R's, but I'm done crapping on people that have been deceived to vote against their best interests. Especially when I believe that the current problems facing national and global society can't simply be legislated away or solved by statistically data driven analysis.
One thing the right doesn't get wrong is that there is a sickness in our culture, but it's just a lack of love and compassion and not choice and free expression that is causing the sickness.
I'm 100% with you on this. I vote against my best interest all the time. Why wouldn't others? And yes, lack of compassion and empathy is a rampant problem. But what I find is that how most people act one of one is far different than they act in a group or online. Why can't people show that respect and empathy in all situations, in group settings? Drives me nuts.
Fuck Fox News.
The entire right wing news eco system is awful. Fox is now mundane compared to some of the new designer options.
I’m hesitant to adopt the belief that society is in decline, and I think this belief is central to the republican culture war. Most metrics show things are getting better (although there has been a covid related regression in several areas). Other things are naturally cyclical but trend upward. A lot of negative things have been occurring for a long time, they just manifest differently. Technology has always brought about some form of isolation and separation from human contact, it’s just that new tech brings a new form of how this separation exists. Authoritarians have always had their appeal to a segment of the population, but now it’s in our face because one was president recently.
I’m hesitant to adopt the belief that society is in decline, and I think this belief is central to the republican culture war. Most metrics show things are getting better (although there has been a covid related regression in several areas). Other things are naturally cyclical but trend upward. A lot of negative things have been occurring for a long time, they just manifest differently. Technology has always brought about some form of isolation and separation from human contact, it’s just that new tech brings a new form of how this separation exists. Authoritarians have always had their appeal to a segment of the population, but now it’s in our face because one was president recently.
I don't think we've "lost our country". I think that's bs. Teh country is changing and it is always changing. The overall standard of living has never been higher, but that doesn't mean that every single person is now better off. Plenty of people have fallen behind the curve that were used to being ahead of it, and they lash out with their grievances. I do think we are de-sensitized to violence and conflict though. I think it's a problem.
And to Static's point, I think the right wing echo chamber has radicalized a large group of mostly older, almost completely white part of this population. And it's a problem. Fox started it and the other outlets, as he points out, continue the radicalization.
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,288
That they have concerns that haven't been addressed by the other party and have been deceived by the bloviating and empty promises of the one they are voting for.
Or...I think the other party has and still does address their concerns regarding things that matter, but they continually vote against their own interests because they are overly invested in culture war bullshit that the right wing media has force-fed down their throats for three decades.
^This stupid pledge of allegiance thing illustrates this pretty nicely.
Edit--The Fox / Dominion case also illustrates this in a way.
I think the concerns about the loss of good paying jobs due to offshoring and all of the unintended consequences that destabilized many rural and urban areas, followed by the economic blight, the replacement of all the jobs by lower paying service work or big box jobs like amazon. Then wealthy people and companies buying cheap real estate and jacking up the market value thus displacing and destabilizing more people and making housing unaffordable. Along with rising costs of everything and inflation, hasn't really been adequately addressed by either party. The Dems do more but it is piecemeal and for desperate people, the long game to fix this doesn't seem like a good option.
So even though the R's do absolutely nothing, they talk big and gather the votes through messaging and yes some culture war stuff.
Obviously transnational capital with unfettered access to free trade having more power than a disconnected global working class is more to blame than any political party.
Sure people continue being fooled, but that is partially due to a lack of a functioning education system, and a glomming of half of the US population as deplorable. But with few material benefits in the way of stability etc coupled with the republican rage based messaging it is easy to see why they cling to the hope of the hollow pie in the sky promises that R's present.
What's the solution? Better D messaging, when possible bigger material benefits through legislation. Though with people like Manchin and Cinema you can't even get that through the party not to mention the impasses involved with getting anything done by with the opposing party.
Sure they are fired up by the culture war, but I think that is just something that they can hold on to and understand. Give people actual prosperity, time with their families, the chance to not be living a financially precarious life, then that culture war shit will fade in to the background. This is beyond just the government and would take a cultural shift along with companies putting people before profits, which is pretty unrealistic. So we are probably fucked. Least of all by some voters that have been deceived.
I'm with you. My disagreement is primarily with what you first said that the other party (dems) have not addressed their issues. I believe they have and continue to but that their messaging always gets drowned out by the right wing maga echo chamber machine.
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,288
That they have concerns that haven't been addressed by the other party and have been deceived by the bloviating and empty promises of the one they are voting for.
Or...I think the other party has and still does address their concerns regarding things that matter, but they continually vote against their own interests because they are overly invested in culture war bullshit that the right wing media has force-fed down their throats for three decades.
^This stupid pledge of allegiance thing illustrates this pretty nicely.
Edit--The Fox / Dominion case also illustrates this in a way.
I think the concerns about the loss of good paying jobs due to offshoring and all of the unintended consequences that destabilized many rural and urban areas, followed by the economic blight, the replacement of all the jobs by lower paying service work or big box jobs like amazon. Then wealthy people and companies buying cheap real estate and jacking up the market value thus displacing and destabilizing more people and making housing unaffordable. Along with rising costs of everything and inflation, hasn't really been adequately addressed by either party. The Dems do more but it is piecemeal and for desperate people, the long game to fix this doesn't seem like a good option.
So even though the R's do absolutely nothing, they talk big and gather the votes through messaging and yes some culture war stuff.
Obviously transnational capital with unfettered access to free trade having more power than a disconnected global working class is more to blame than any political party.
Sure people continue being fooled, but that is partially due to a lack of a functioning education system, and a glomming of half of the US population as deplorable. But with few material benefits in the way of stability etc coupled with the republican rage based messaging it is easy to see why they cling to the hope of the hollow pie in the sky promises that R's present.
What's the solution? Better D messaging, when possible bigger material benefits through legislation. Though with people like Manchin and Cinema you can't even get that through the party not to mention the impasses involved with getting anything done by with the opposing party.
Sure they are fired up by the culture war, but I think that is just something that they can hold on to and understand. Give people actual prosperity, time with their families, the chance to not be living a financially precarious life, then that culture war shit will fade in to the background. This is beyond just the government and would take a cultural shift along with companies putting people before profits, which is pretty unrealistic. So we are probably fucked. Least of all by some voters that have been deceived.
"So even though the R's do absolutely nothing, they talk big and gather the votes through messaging and yes some culture war stuff."
It is almost all culture war stuff. They spent the last election talking about that instead of things that matter. Now that they barely have power, what are they holding hearings about? Mostly bullshit culture war stuff that will not better anyone's lives. It's the entirety of the GOP's agenda right now. They have no solutions so their response is to continually gin up their base over and over and over and over again. You brought up sending jobs over seas. Obviously that's not just one party doing that. But you know what would bring jobs back to rural areas? Greener, clean energy. That's obviously the future---yet any mention of that stuff goes right out the window for the GOP's constituents because the GOP has successfully made that, something that very likely will turn out to be a life or death issue at some point in the future, a culture war issue. In a perfect world America would be leading this charge, instead we are watching the rest of the world lap us primarily because the GOP is holding us back.
Lowering taxes for middle and lower income, social security/medicare, healthcare etc etc---these are the issues that matter to people. And time and time again, the GOP successfully gets their base to vote against their better interests because they are better at manipulating their base into believing bullshit.
What I mean to say is I don't think the culture war stuff is as important to the typical R voter than the false promises of prosperity. The politicians bookend the culture war stuff as the real reason that the prosperity doesn't exist. So the enemy of the prosperity of the R voter becomes, Drag queens, gays, minorities etc. But the vacant bill of goods they are clinging to is that this prosperity will exist, if only...
I have no argument that the politicians of that party aren't depraved lunatics that are holding back the country and their constituents.
My point is it is really easy to shit on rank and file Republican voters, but it doesn't do anything except maybe allow us each individually to vent some rage that we can't offload directly on MTG, Chip Roy, Jordan, Gaetz etc. Believe me I've done it, I know how good it feels, but the results are as empty as GOP promises.
I am coming to a place where I am wanting to have compassion and when possible have individual dialogues with people. Sure I will continue to vote D for incremental change and advise against people voting for R's, but I'm done crapping on people that have been deceived to vote against their best interests. Especially when I believe that the current problems facing national and global society can't simply be legislated away or solved by statistically data driven analysis.
One thing the right doesn't get wrong is that there is a sickness in our culture, but it's just a lack of love and compassion and not choice and free expression that is causing the sickness.
In order of my bolding of your statements. I don't believe for one minute that the solution rests with dems or libs. The repubs have created a monster and a monster of a mess and it is they, and they alone, who have to, and need to, fix it and clean it up. "You" is general you and not you personally, Static.
First bold: Campaign finance reform and Electoral College and electioneering fixes. Which party is for? Which against? A current "moderate" repub stated, famously, "corporations are people too."
Second bold: Which party prefers funding public education, specifically pre-K through college? Which party dictates what is taught, mixes religion in and supports home schooling, sucking resources from the greater good? Half the country is not deplorable but a good 35% of repub voters are and the other 65% need to get off their asses and turn out during the primaries. As the Ragin' Cajun' stated, "you know what happens when only stupid people vote in repub primaries? Stupid people get elected." Those other 65% that voted POOTWH need to turn up and turn out the Maggie Three Names, Lorena Bobbits, Matt Getts Offs and Santarias of their party. Not dems.
Third bold: Agree and wish dem leadership would play hardball and force them to change parties. Let the repubs own the shit show. And you know what? That other 65% of repubs, or more than 50% of the 65% would still be fine with it. And all you need to see is their love for Deathsantis, Abbott & Costello, Gnome and Hucksterabee Sanders, Kevin, et. al.
Fourth bold: Are they really deceived? Or are they okay with blaming drag queens, LGBTQ community, wokeness and CRT?
Fifth bold: see Second Bold response.
Sixth bold: Compassion? It is difficult for me to have compassion for individuals that support the shitstorm of the past 6 years. Regardless, if these people are so "deceived" or "misinformed" or whatever other excuse you want to use for their support of POS candidates and fascist policies, I wonder how they function in life? And I bet a good many of them consider themselves "christians" as well? Please. Its more likely that they agree with the 35% of deplorables, or some aspect of their beliefs (gay people will come to the door and convert my kids).
Think about where those people with only box stores for employment opportunities might be if Ronny Rayguns hadn't killed solar, if wind turbines and solar were embraced back in the 80's, if Clinton's health plan had been seriously debated and tweaked in 1993. Clinton gave us FMLA and Biden is trying to make it paid, while Obama gave us a version of universal healthcare. Which party regularly looks out for the "little guy?" Are dems perfect? No fucking way. But repubs? As of today? A complete shit show and its up to their voters, not dem voters, to fix it. For now, they own it and they can wallow in it.
"These people" are not going away and its going to get worse before it gets better. These are perilous times and unless there's a massive rejection of the current state of the repub party, whether outright rejection or voting in moderates of their party, 'Murica is one, maybe two POTUS election cycles from 2024 of ceasing to exist as we know it. Dems can't do it alone.
That they have concerns that haven't been addressed by the other party and have been deceived by the bloviating and empty promises of the one they are voting for.
Or...I think the other party has and still does address their concerns regarding things that matter, but they continually vote against their own interests because they are overly invested in culture war bullshit that the right wing media has force-fed down their throats for three decades.
^This stupid pledge of allegiance thing illustrates this pretty nicely.
Edit--The Fox / Dominion case also illustrates this in a way.
I think the concerns about the loss of good paying jobs due to offshoring and all of the unintended consequences that destabilized many rural and urban areas, followed by the economic blight, the replacement of all the jobs by lower paying service work or big box jobs like amazon. Then wealthy people and companies buying cheap real estate and jacking up the market value thus displacing and destabilizing more people and making housing unaffordable. Along with rising costs of everything and inflation, hasn't really been adequately addressed by either party. The Dems do more but it is piecemeal and for desperate people, the long game to fix this doesn't seem like a good option.
So even though the R's do absolutely nothing, they talk big and gather the votes through messaging and yes some culture war stuff.
Obviously transnational capital with unfettered access to free trade having more power than a disconnected global working class is more to blame than any political party.
Sure people continue being fooled, but that is partially due to a lack of a functioning education system, and a glomming of half of the US population as deplorable. But with few material benefits in the way of stability etc coupled with the republican rage based messaging it is easy to see why they cling to the hope of the hollow pie in the sky promises that R's present.
What's the solution? Better D messaging, when possible bigger material benefits through legislation. Though with people like Manchin and Cinema you can't even get that through the party not to mention the impasses involved with getting anything done by with the opposing party.
Sure they are fired up by the culture war, but I think that is just something that they can hold on to and understand. Give people actual prosperity, time with their families, the chance to not be living a financially precarious life, then that culture war shit will fade in to the background. This is beyond just the government and would take a cultural shift along with companies putting people before profits, which is pretty unrealistic. So we are probably fucked. Least of all by some voters that have been deceived.
I'm with you. My disagreement is primarily with what you first said that the other party (dems) have not addressed their issues. I believe they have and continue to but that their messaging always gets drowned out by the right wing maga echo chamber machine.
I agree. I mean to say that the deceived perceive that the other party (dems) haven't addressed their concerns or just aren't doing enough. Probably the biggest problem facing the Dems enlightening the deceived is messaging.
My original response was hasty and not well thought out because I am tired of bashing people and talking crap about people that have been fooled and largely don't know better.
That they have concerns that haven't been addressed by the other party and have been deceived by the bloviating and empty promises of the one they are voting for.
Or...I think the other party has and still does address their concerns regarding things that matter, but they continually vote against their own interests because they are overly invested in culture war bullshit that the right wing media has force-fed down their throats for three decades.
^This stupid pledge of allegiance thing illustrates this pretty nicely.
Edit--The Fox / Dominion case also illustrates this in a way.
I think the concerns about the loss of good paying jobs due to offshoring and all of the unintended consequences that destabilized many rural and urban areas, followed by the economic blight, the replacement of all the jobs by lower paying service work or big box jobs like amazon. Then wealthy people and companies buying cheap real estate and jacking up the market value thus displacing and destabilizing more people and making housing unaffordable. Along with rising costs of everything and inflation, hasn't really been adequately addressed by either party. The Dems do more but it is piecemeal and for desperate people, the long game to fix this doesn't seem like a good option.
So even though the R's do absolutely nothing, they talk big and gather the votes through messaging and yes some culture war stuff.
Obviously transnational capital with unfettered access to free trade having more power than a disconnected global working class is more to blame than any political party.
Sure people continue being fooled, but that is partially due to a lack of a functioning education system, and a glomming of half of the US population as deplorable. But with few material benefits in the way of stability etc coupled with the republican rage based messaging it is easy to see why they cling to the hope of the hollow pie in the sky promises that R's present.
What's the solution? Better D messaging, when possible bigger material benefits through legislation. Though with people like Manchin and Cinema you can't even get that through the party not to mention the impasses involved with getting anything done by with the opposing party.
Sure they are fired up by the culture war, but I think that is just something that they can hold on to and understand. Give people actual prosperity, time with their families, the chance to not be living a financially precarious life, then that culture war shit will fade in to the background. This is beyond just the government and would take a cultural shift along with companies putting people before profits, which is pretty unrealistic. So we are probably fucked. Least of all by some voters that have been deceived.
"So even though the R's do absolutely nothing, they talk big and gather the votes through messaging and yes some culture war stuff."
It is almost all culture war stuff. They spent the last election talking about that instead of things that matter. Now that they barely have power, what are they holding hearings about? Mostly bullshit culture war stuff that will not better anyone's lives. It's the entirety of the GOP's agenda right now. They have no solutions so their response is to continually gin up their base over and over and over and over again. You brought up sending jobs over seas. Obviously that's not just one party doing that. But you know what would bring jobs back to rural areas? Greener, clean energy. That's obviously the future---yet any mention of that stuff goes right out the window for the GOP's constituents because the GOP has successfully made that, something that very likely will turn out to be a life or death issue at some point in the future, a culture war issue. In a perfect world America would be leading this charge, instead we are watching the rest of the world lap us primarily because the GOP is holding us back.
Lowering taxes for middle and lower income, social security/medicare, healthcare etc etc---these are the issues that matter to people. And time and time again, the GOP successfully gets their base to vote against their better interests because they are better at manipulating their base into believing bullshit.
What I mean to say is I don't think the culture war stuff is as important to the typical R voter than the false promises of prosperity. The politicians bookend the culture war stuff as the real reason that the prosperity doesn't exist. So the enemy of the prosperity of the R voter becomes, Drag queens, gays, minorities etc. But the vacant bill of goods they are clinging to is that this prosperity will exist, if only...
I have no argument that the politicians of that party aren't depraved lunatics that are holding back the country and their constituents.
My point is it is really easy to shit on rank and file Republican voters, but it doesn't do anything except maybe allow us each individually to vent some rage that we can't offload directly on MTG, Chip Roy, Jordan, Gaetz etc. Believe me I've done it, I know how good it feels, but the results are as empty as GOP promises.
I am coming to a place where I am wanting to have compassion and when possible have individual dialogues with people. Sure I will continue to vote D for incremental change and advise against people voting for R's, but I'm done crapping on people that have been deceived to vote against their best interests. Especially when I believe that the current problems facing national and global society can't simply be legislated away or solved by statistically data driven analysis.
One thing the right doesn't get wrong is that there is a sickness in our culture, but it's just a lack of love and compassion and not choice and free expression that is causing the sickness.
In order of my bolding of your statements. I don't believe for one minute that the solution rests with dems or libs. The repubs have created a monster and a monster of a mess and it is they, and they alone, who have to, and need to, fix it and clean it up. "You" is general you and not you personally, Static.
First bold: Campaign finance reform and Electoral College and electioneering fixes. Which party is for? Which against? A current "moderate" repub stated, famously, "corporations are people too."
Second bold: Which party prefers funding public education, specifically pre-K through college? Which party dictates what is taught, mixes religion in and supports home schooling, sucking resources from the greater good? Half the country is not deplorable but a good 35% of repub voters are and the other 65% need to get off their asses and turn out during the primaries. As the Ragin' Cajun' stated, "you know what happens when only stupid people vote in repub primaries? Stupid people get elected." Those other 65% that voted POOTWH need to turn up and turn out the Maggie Three Names, Lorena Bobbits, Matt Getts Offs and Santarias of their party. Not dems.
Third bold: Agree and wish dem leadership would play hardball and force them to change parties. Let the repubs own the shit show. And you know what? That other 65% of repubs, or more than 50% of the 65% would still be fine with it. And all you need to see is their love for Deathsantis, Abbott & Costello, Gnome and Hucksterabee Sanders, Kevin, et. al.
Fourth bold: Are they really deceived? Or are they okay with blaming drag queens, LGBTQ community, wokeness and CRT?
Fifth bold: see Second Bold response.
Sixth bold: Compassion? It is difficult for me to have compassion for individuals that support the shitstorm of the past 6 years. Regardless, if these people are so "deceived" or "misinformed" or whatever other excuse you want to use for their support of POS candidates and fascist policies, I wonder how they function in life? And I bet a good many of them consider themselves "christians" as well? Please. Its more likely that they agree with the 35% of deplorables, or some aspect of their beliefs (gay people will come to the door and convert my kids).
Think about where those people with only box stores for employment opportunities might be if Ronny Rayguns hadn't killed solar, if wind turbines and solar were embraced back in the 80's, if Clinton's health plan had been seriously debated and tweaked in 1993. Clinton gave us FMLA and Biden is trying to make it paid, while Obama gave us a version of universal healthcare. Which party regularly looks out for the "little guy?" Are dems perfect? No fucking way. But repubs? As of today? A complete shit show and its up to their voters, not dem voters, to fix it. For now, they own it and they can wallow in it.
"These people" are not going away and its going to get worse before it gets better. These are perilous times and unless there's a massive rejection of the current state of the repub party, whether outright rejection or voting in moderates of their party, 'Murica is one, maybe two POTUS election cycles from 2024 of ceasing to exist as we know it. Dems can't do it alone.
If you expect the Republican Party and trash talking deceived people to fix this mess, I don't know what to tell you. Nothing happens that way. If it did we would be further from the mess that began 6 years ago. All that strategy has done is drive deeper roots into the problem and let it grow.
But sure lets talk crap about the deceived give them zero compassion and expect the Republicans to fix the monster they've created. That is bound to work out.
We have a two party system and for better or worse Dems need to figure out how to bring these people back from the edge, because the Republicans aren't going to fix it.
The other way lies with good ol illiberal democracy.
That they have concerns that haven't been addressed by the other party and have been deceived by the bloviating and empty promises of the one they are voting for.
Or...I think the other party has and still does address their concerns regarding things that matter, but they continually vote against their own interests because they are overly invested in culture war bullshit that the right wing media has force-fed down their throats for three decades.
^This stupid pledge of allegiance thing illustrates this pretty nicely.
Edit--The Fox / Dominion case also illustrates this in a way.
I think the concerns about the loss of good paying jobs due to offshoring and all of the unintended consequences that destabilized many rural and urban areas, followed by the economic blight, the replacement of all the jobs by lower paying service work or big box jobs like amazon. Then wealthy people and companies buying cheap real estate and jacking up the market value thus displacing and destabilizing more people and making housing unaffordable. Along with rising costs of everything and inflation, hasn't really been adequately addressed by either party. The Dems do more but it is piecemeal and for desperate people, the long game to fix this doesn't seem like a good option.
So even though the R's do absolutely nothing, they talk big and gather the votes through messaging and yes some culture war stuff.
Obviously transnational capital with unfettered access to free trade having more power than a disconnected global working class is more to blame than any political party.
Sure people continue being fooled, but that is partially due to a lack of a functioning education system, and a glomming of half of the US population as deplorable. But with few material benefits in the way of stability etc coupled with the republican rage based messaging it is easy to see why they cling to the hope of the hollow pie in the sky promises that R's present.
What's the solution? Better D messaging, when possible bigger material benefits through legislation. Though with people like Manchin and Cinema you can't even get that through the party not to mention the impasses involved with getting anything done by with the opposing party.
Sure they are fired up by the culture war, but I think that is just something that they can hold on to and understand. Give people actual prosperity, time with their families, the chance to not be living a financially precarious life, then that culture war shit will fade in to the background. This is beyond just the government and would take a cultural shift along with companies putting people before profits, which is pretty unrealistic. So we are probably fucked. Least of all by some voters that have been deceived.
"So even though the R's do absolutely nothing, they talk big and gather the votes through messaging and yes some culture war stuff."
It is almost all culture war stuff. They spent the last election talking about that instead of things that matter. Now that they barely have power, what are they holding hearings about? Mostly bullshit culture war stuff that will not better anyone's lives. It's the entirety of the GOP's agenda right now. They have no solutions so their response is to continually gin up their base over and over and over and over again. You brought up sending jobs over seas. Obviously that's not just one party doing that. But you know what would bring jobs back to rural areas? Greener, clean energy. That's obviously the future---yet any mention of that stuff goes right out the window for the GOP's constituents because the GOP has successfully made that, something that very likely will turn out to be a life or death issue at some point in the future, a culture war issue. In a perfect world America would be leading this charge, instead we are watching the rest of the world lap us primarily because the GOP is holding us back.
Lowering taxes for middle and lower income, social security/medicare, healthcare etc etc---these are the issues that matter to people. And time and time again, the GOP successfully gets their base to vote against their better interests because they are better at manipulating their base into believing bullshit.
What I mean to say is I don't think the culture war stuff is as important to the typical R voter than the false promises of prosperity. The politicians bookend the culture war stuff as the real reason that the prosperity doesn't exist. So the enemy of the prosperity of the R voter becomes, Drag queens, gays, minorities etc. But the vacant bill of goods they are clinging to is that this prosperity will exist, if only...
I have no argument that the politicians of that party aren't depraved lunatics that are holding back the country and their constituents.
My point is it is really easy to shit on rank and file Republican voters, but it doesn't do anything except maybe allow us each individually to vent some rage that we can't offload directly on MTG, Chip Roy, Jordan, Gaetz etc. Believe me I've done it, I know how good it feels, but the results are as empty as GOP promises.
I am coming to a place where I am wanting to have compassion and when possible have individual dialogues with people. Sure I will continue to vote D for incremental change and advise against people voting for R's, but I'm done crapping on people that have been deceived to vote against their best interests. Especially when I believe that the current problems facing national and global society can't simply be legislated away or solved by statistically data driven analysis.
One thing the right doesn't get wrong is that there is a sickness in our culture, but it's just a lack of love and compassion and not choice and free expression that is causing the sickness.
In order of my bolding of your statements. I don't believe for one minute that the solution rests with dems or libs. The repubs have created a monster and a monster of a mess and it is they, and they alone, who have to, and need to, fix it and clean it up. "You" is general you and not you personally, Static.
First bold: Campaign finance reform and Electoral College and electioneering fixes. Which party is for? Which against? A current "moderate" repub stated, famously, "corporations are people too."
Second bold: Which party prefers funding public education, specifically pre-K through college? Which party dictates what is taught, mixes religion in and supports home schooling, sucking resources from the greater good? Half the country is not deplorable but a good 35% of repub voters are and the other 65% need to get off their asses and turn out during the primaries. As the Ragin' Cajun' stated, "you know what happens when only stupid people vote in repub primaries? Stupid people get elected." Those other 65% that voted POOTWH need to turn up and turn out the Maggie Three Names, Lorena Bobbits, Matt Getts Offs and Santarias of their party. Not dems.
Third bold: Agree and wish dem leadership would play hardball and force them to change parties. Let the repubs own the shit show. And you know what? That other 65% of repubs, or more than 50% of the 65% would still be fine with it. And all you need to see is their love for Deathsantis, Abbott & Costello, Gnome and Hucksterabee Sanders, Kevin, et. al.
Fourth bold: Are they really deceived? Or are they okay with blaming drag queens, LGBTQ community, wokeness and CRT?
Fifth bold: see Second Bold response.
Sixth bold: Compassion? It is difficult for me to have compassion for individuals that support the shitstorm of the past 6 years. Regardless, if these people are so "deceived" or "misinformed" or whatever other excuse you want to use for their support of POS candidates and fascist policies, I wonder how they function in life? And I bet a good many of them consider themselves "christians" as well? Please. Its more likely that they agree with the 35% of deplorables, or some aspect of their beliefs (gay people will come to the door and convert my kids).
Think about where those people with only box stores for employment opportunities might be if Ronny Rayguns hadn't killed solar, if wind turbines and solar were embraced back in the 80's, if Clinton's health plan had been seriously debated and tweaked in 1993. Clinton gave us FMLA and Biden is trying to make it paid, while Obama gave us a version of universal healthcare. Which party regularly looks out for the "little guy?" Are dems perfect? No fucking way. But repubs? As of today? A complete shit show and its up to their voters, not dem voters, to fix it. For now, they own it and they can wallow in it.
"These people" are not going away and its going to get worse before it gets better. These are perilous times and unless there's a massive rejection of the current state of the repub party, whether outright rejection or voting in moderates of their party, 'Murica is one, maybe two POTUS election cycles from 2024 of ceasing to exist as we know it. Dems can't do it alone.
If you expect the Republican Party and trash talking deceived people to fix this mess, I don't know what to tell you. Nothing happens that way. If it did we would be further from the mess that began 6 years ago. All that strategy has done is drive deeper roots into the problem and let it grow.
But sure lets talk crap about the deceived give them zero compassion and expect the Republicans to fix the monster they've created. That is bound to work out.
We have a two party system and for better or worse Dems need to figure out how to bring these people back from the edge, because the Republicans aren't going to fix it.
The other way lies with good ol illiberal democracy.
Conversely, if the 65% of current non-deplorable repubs, and that's a huge if, don't come out during the primaries or vote blue in the general, its too late. I'm not sure any amount of dem policies, messaging, etc. can change a thing if they can't see and realize what's transpired over the past 6-7 years. 'Murica will deserve everything it gets. It may very well be too late. And I've seen all kinds of Dem compassion legislation in the last six years for the "deceived." Meanwhile, Maggie Three Names can't pull her "christian" self to recognize the suffering in Turkey and Syria. Where's the repub voter on that? Deceived?
That they have concerns that haven't been addressed by the other party and have been deceived by the bloviating and empty promises of the one they are voting for.
Or...I think the other party has and still does address their concerns regarding things that matter, but they continually vote against their own interests because they are overly invested in culture war bullshit that the right wing media has force-fed down their throats for three decades.
^This stupid pledge of allegiance thing illustrates this pretty nicely.
Edit--The Fox / Dominion case also illustrates this in a way.
I think the concerns about the loss of good paying jobs due to offshoring and all of the unintended consequences that destabilized many rural and urban areas, followed by the economic blight, the replacement of all the jobs by lower paying service work or big box jobs like amazon. Then wealthy people and companies buying cheap real estate and jacking up the market value thus displacing and destabilizing more people and making housing unaffordable. Along with rising costs of everything and inflation, hasn't really been adequately addressed by either party. The Dems do more but it is piecemeal and for desperate people, the long game to fix this doesn't seem like a good option.
So even though the R's do absolutely nothing, they talk big and gather the votes through messaging and yes some culture war stuff.
Obviously transnational capital with unfettered access to free trade having more power than a disconnected global working class is more to blame than any political party.
Sure people continue being fooled, but that is partially due to a lack of a functioning education system, and a glomming of half of the US population as deplorable. But with few material benefits in the way of stability etc coupled with the republican rage based messaging it is easy to see why they cling to the hope of the hollow pie in the sky promises that R's present.
What's the solution? Better D messaging, when possible bigger material benefits through legislation. Though with people like Manchin and Cinema you can't even get that through the party not to mention the impasses involved with getting anything done by with the opposing party.
Sure they are fired up by the culture war, but I think that is just something that they can hold on to and understand. Give people actual prosperity, time with their families, the chance to not be living a financially precarious life, then that culture war shit will fade in to the background. This is beyond just the government and would take a cultural shift along with companies putting people before profits, which is pretty unrealistic. So we are probably fucked. Least of all by some voters that have been deceived.
"So even though the R's do absolutely nothing, they talk big and gather the votes through messaging and yes some culture war stuff."
It is almost all culture war stuff. They spent the last election talking about that instead of things that matter. Now that they barely have power, what are they holding hearings about? Mostly bullshit culture war stuff that will not better anyone's lives. It's the entirety of the GOP's agenda right now. They have no solutions so their response is to continually gin up their base over and over and over and over again. You brought up sending jobs over seas. Obviously that's not just one party doing that. But you know what would bring jobs back to rural areas? Greener, clean energy. That's obviously the future---yet any mention of that stuff goes right out the window for the GOP's constituents because the GOP has successfully made that, something that very likely will turn out to be a life or death issue at some point in the future, a culture war issue. In a perfect world America would be leading this charge, instead we are watching the rest of the world lap us primarily because the GOP is holding us back.
Lowering taxes for middle and lower income, social security/medicare, healthcare etc etc---these are the issues that matter to people. And time and time again, the GOP successfully gets their base to vote against their better interests because they are better at manipulating their base into believing bullshit.
What I mean to say is I don't think the culture war stuff is as important to the typical R voter than the false promises of prosperity. The politicians bookend the culture war stuff as the real reason that the prosperity doesn't exist. So the enemy of the prosperity of the R voter becomes, Drag queens, gays, minorities etc. But the vacant bill of goods they are clinging to is that this prosperity will exist, if only...
I have no argument that the politicians of that party aren't depraved lunatics that are holding back the country and their constituents.
My point is it is really easy to shit on rank and file Republican voters, but it doesn't do anything except maybe allow us each individually to vent some rage that we can't offload directly on MTG, Chip Roy, Jordan, Gaetz etc. Believe me I've done it, I know how good it feels, but the results are as empty as GOP promises.
I am coming to a place where I am wanting to have compassion and when possible have individual dialogues with people. Sure I will continue to vote D for incremental change and advise against people voting for R's, but I'm done crapping on people that have been deceived to vote against their best interests. Especially when I believe that the current problems facing national and global society can't simply be legislated away or solved by statistically data driven analysis.
One thing the right doesn't get wrong is that there is a sickness in our culture, but it's just a lack of love and compassion and not choice and free expression that is causing the sickness.
In order of my bolding of your statements. I don't believe for one minute that the solution rests with dems or libs. The repubs have created a monster and a monster of a mess and it is they, and they alone, who have to, and need to, fix it and clean it up. "You" is general you and not you personally, Static.
First bold: Campaign finance reform and Electoral College and electioneering fixes. Which party is for? Which against? A current "moderate" repub stated, famously, "corporations are people too."
Second bold: Which party prefers funding public education, specifically pre-K through college? Which party dictates what is taught, mixes religion in and supports home schooling, sucking resources from the greater good? Half the country is not deplorable but a good 35% of repub voters are and the other 65% need to get off their asses and turn out during the primaries. As the Ragin' Cajun' stated, "you know what happens when only stupid people vote in repub primaries? Stupid people get elected." Those other 65% that voted POOTWH need to turn up and turn out the Maggie Three Names, Lorena Bobbits, Matt Getts Offs and Santarias of their party. Not dems.
Third bold: Agree and wish dem leadership would play hardball and force them to change parties. Let the repubs own the shit show. And you know what? That other 65% of repubs, or more than 50% of the 65% would still be fine with it. And all you need to see is their love for Deathsantis, Abbott & Costello, Gnome and Hucksterabee Sanders, Kevin, et. al.
Fourth bold: Are they really deceived? Or are they okay with blaming drag queens, LGBTQ community, wokeness and CRT?
Fifth bold: see Second Bold response.
Sixth bold: Compassion? It is difficult for me to have compassion for individuals that support the shitstorm of the past 6 years. Regardless, if these people are so "deceived" or "misinformed" or whatever other excuse you want to use for their support of POS candidates and fascist policies, I wonder how they function in life? And I bet a good many of them consider themselves "christians" as well? Please. Its more likely that they agree with the 35% of deplorables, or some aspect of their beliefs (gay people will come to the door and convert my kids).
Think about where those people with only box stores for employment opportunities might be if Ronny Rayguns hadn't killed solar, if wind turbines and solar were embraced back in the 80's, if Clinton's health plan had been seriously debated and tweaked in 1993. Clinton gave us FMLA and Biden is trying to make it paid, while Obama gave us a version of universal healthcare. Which party regularly looks out for the "little guy?" Are dems perfect? No fucking way. But repubs? As of today? A complete shit show and its up to their voters, not dem voters, to fix it. For now, they own it and they can wallow in it.
"These people" are not going away and its going to get worse before it gets better. These are perilous times and unless there's a massive rejection of the current state of the repub party, whether outright rejection or voting in moderates of their party, 'Murica is one, maybe two POTUS election cycles from 2024 of ceasing to exist as we know it. Dems can't do it alone.
If you expect the Republican Party and trash talking deceived people to fix this mess, I don't know what to tell you. Nothing happens that way. If it did we would be further from the mess that began 6 years ago. All that strategy has done is drive deeper roots into the problem and let it grow.
But sure lets talk crap about the deceived give them zero compassion and expect the Republicans to fix the monster they've created. That is bound to work out.
We have a two party system and for better or worse Dems need to figure out how to bring these people back from the edge, because the Republicans aren't going to fix it.
The other way lies with good ol illiberal democracy.
"Expecting" and placing responsibility in the correct place are two completely different things. I don't expect it to change because I believe the number of deplorables is much greater than 35%.
That they have concerns that haven't been addressed by the other party and have been deceived by the bloviating and empty promises of the one they are voting for.
Or...I think the other party has and still does address their concerns regarding things that matter, but they continually vote against their own interests because they are overly invested in culture war bullshit that the right wing media has force-fed down their throats for three decades.
^This stupid pledge of allegiance thing illustrates this pretty nicely.
Edit--The Fox / Dominion case also illustrates this in a way.
I think the concerns about the loss of good paying jobs due to offshoring and all of the unintended consequences that destabilized many rural and urban areas, followed by the economic blight, the replacement of all the jobs by lower paying service work or big box jobs like amazon. Then wealthy people and companies buying cheap real estate and jacking up the market value thus displacing and destabilizing more people and making housing unaffordable. Along with rising costs of everything and inflation, hasn't really been adequately addressed by either party. The Dems do more but it is piecemeal and for desperate people, the long game to fix this doesn't seem like a good option.
So even though the R's do absolutely nothing, they talk big and gather the votes through messaging and yes some culture war stuff.
Obviously transnational capital with unfettered access to free trade having more power than a disconnected global working class is more to blame than any political party.
Sure people continue being fooled, but that is partially due to a lack of a functioning education system, and a glomming of half of the US population as deplorable. But with few material benefits in the way of stability etc coupled with the republican rage based messaging it is easy to see why they cling to the hope of the hollow pie in the sky promises that R's present.
What's the solution? Better D messaging, when possible bigger material benefits through legislation. Though with people like Manchin and Cinema you can't even get that through the party not to mention the impasses involved with getting anything done by with the opposing party.
Sure they are fired up by the culture war, but I think that is just something that they can hold on to and understand. Give people actual prosperity, time with their families, the chance to not be living a financially precarious life, then that culture war shit will fade in to the background. This is beyond just the government and would take a cultural shift along with companies putting people before profits, which is pretty unrealistic. So we are probably fucked. Least of all by some voters that have been deceived.
"So even though the R's do absolutely nothing, they talk big and gather the votes through messaging and yes some culture war stuff."
It is almost all culture war stuff. They spent the last election talking about that instead of things that matter. Now that they barely have power, what are they holding hearings about? Mostly bullshit culture war stuff that will not better anyone's lives. It's the entirety of the GOP's agenda right now. They have no solutions so their response is to continually gin up their base over and over and over and over again. You brought up sending jobs over seas. Obviously that's not just one party doing that. But you know what would bring jobs back to rural areas? Greener, clean energy. That's obviously the future---yet any mention of that stuff goes right out the window for the GOP's constituents because the GOP has successfully made that, something that very likely will turn out to be a life or death issue at some point in the future, a culture war issue. In a perfect world America would be leading this charge, instead we are watching the rest of the world lap us primarily because the GOP is holding us back.
Lowering taxes for middle and lower income, social security/medicare, healthcare etc etc---these are the issues that matter to people. And time and time again, the GOP successfully gets their base to vote against their better interests because they are better at manipulating their base into believing bullshit.
What I mean to say is I don't think the culture war stuff is as important to the typical R voter than the false promises of prosperity. The politicians bookend the culture war stuff as the real reason that the prosperity doesn't exist. So the enemy of the prosperity of the R voter becomes, Drag queens, gays, minorities etc. But the vacant bill of goods they are clinging to is that this prosperity will exist, if only...
I have no argument that the politicians of that party aren't depraved lunatics that are holding back the country and their constituents.
My point is it is really easy to shit on rank and file Republican voters, but it doesn't do anything except maybe allow us each individually to vent some rage that we can't offload directly on MTG, Chip Roy, Jordan, Gaetz etc. Believe me I've done it, I know how good it feels, but the results are as empty as GOP promises.
I am coming to a place where I am wanting to have compassion and when possible have individual dialogues with people. Sure I will continue to vote D for incremental change and advise against people voting for R's, but I'm done crapping on people that have been deceived to vote against their best interests. Especially when I believe that the current problems facing national and global society can't simply be legislated away or solved by statistically data driven analysis.
One thing the right doesn't get wrong is that there is a sickness in our culture, but it's just a lack of love and compassion and not choice and free expression that is causing the sickness.
In order of my bolding of your statements. I don't believe for one minute that the solution rests with dems or libs. The repubs have created a monster and a monster of a mess and it is they, and they alone, who have to, and need to, fix it and clean it up. "You" is general you and not you personally, Static.
First bold: Campaign finance reform and Electoral College and electioneering fixes. Which party is for? Which against? A current "moderate" repub stated, famously, "corporations are people too."
Second bold: Which party prefers funding public education, specifically pre-K through college? Which party dictates what is taught, mixes religion in and supports home schooling, sucking resources from the greater good? Half the country is not deplorable but a good 35% of repub voters are and the other 65% need to get off their asses and turn out during the primaries. As the Ragin' Cajun' stated, "you know what happens when only stupid people vote in repub primaries? Stupid people get elected." Those other 65% that voted POOTWH need to turn up and turn out the Maggie Three Names, Lorena Bobbits, Matt Getts Offs and Santarias of their party. Not dems.
Third bold: Agree and wish dem leadership would play hardball and force them to change parties. Let the repubs own the shit show. And you know what? That other 65% of repubs, or more than 50% of the 65% would still be fine with it. And all you need to see is their love for Deathsantis, Abbott & Costello, Gnome and Hucksterabee Sanders, Kevin, et. al.
Fourth bold: Are they really deceived? Or are they okay with blaming drag queens, LGBTQ community, wokeness and CRT?
Fifth bold: see Second Bold response.
Sixth bold: Compassion? It is difficult for me to have compassion for individuals that support the shitstorm of the past 6 years. Regardless, if these people are so "deceived" or "misinformed" or whatever other excuse you want to use for their support of POS candidates and fascist policies, I wonder how they function in life? And I bet a good many of them consider themselves "christians" as well? Please. Its more likely that they agree with the 35% of deplorables, or some aspect of their beliefs (gay people will come to the door and convert my kids).
Think about where those people with only box stores for employment opportunities might be if Ronny Rayguns hadn't killed solar, if wind turbines and solar were embraced back in the 80's, if Clinton's health plan had been seriously debated and tweaked in 1993. Clinton gave us FMLA and Biden is trying to make it paid, while Obama gave us a version of universal healthcare. Which party regularly looks out for the "little guy?" Are dems perfect? No fucking way. But repubs? As of today? A complete shit show and its up to their voters, not dem voters, to fix it. For now, they own it and they can wallow in it.
"These people" are not going away and its going to get worse before it gets better. These are perilous times and unless there's a massive rejection of the current state of the repub party, whether outright rejection or voting in moderates of their party, 'Murica is one, maybe two POTUS election cycles from 2024 of ceasing to exist as we know it. Dems can't do it alone.
If you expect the Republican Party and trash talking deceived people to fix this mess, I don't know what to tell you. Nothing happens that way. If it did we would be further from the mess that began 6 years ago. All that strategy has done is drive deeper roots into the problem and let it grow.
But sure lets talk crap about the deceived give them zero compassion and expect the Republicans to fix the monster they've created. That is bound to work out.
We have a two party system and for better or worse Dems need to figure out how to bring these people back from the edge, because the Republicans aren't going to fix it.
The other way lies with good ol illiberal democracy.
"Expecting" and placing responsibility in the correct place are two completely different things. I don't expect it to change because I believe the number of deplorables is much greater than 35%.
Belief it'll get you every time
Scio me nihil scire
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,798
Rep. George Santos under investigation by House Ethics panel
By LISA MASCARO and MICHAEL R. SISAK
Yesterday
WASHINGTON (AP) — The House Ethics Committee announced Thursday it is launching an investigation into embattled Republican Rep. George Santos, the New York congressman whose lies and embellishments about his resume and personal life have drawn deep scrutiny.
The investigation appears to be far reaching. It seeks to determine whether Santos "may have engaged in unlawful activity with respect to his 2022 congressional campaign” among other actions, the committee said in a statement.
The panel will also investigate whether Santos "failed to properly disclose required information on statements filed with the House, violated federal conflict of interest laws in connection with his role in a firm providing fiduciary services, and/or engaged in sexual misconduct towards an individual seeking employment in his congressional office," the statement said.
Santos had already removed himself from his committee assignments but otherwise has refused calls from Republicans in New York to step down from office. On Twitter, his office said that he is “fully cooperating” with the Ethics probe and would not comment further.
Ethics committee members David Joyce, R-Ohio, and Susan Wild, D-Pa., will lead the probe, with two other lawmakers from each party. The panel had voted unanimously to establish a subcommittee to investigate the allegations.
"The Committee notes that the mere fact of establishing an Investigative Subcommittee does not itself indicate that any violation has occurred," Thursday's statement said.
The committee could take an array of actions, from a letter of reprimand to recommending censure and a fine.
It can also recommend expulsion, the sternest form of punishment the House can impose, an action it has used only five times in more than two centuries and never when it comes to conduct that took place before a member was sworn into office. At least two-thirds of the House must vote for expulsion for it to occur.
Any recommendation would be part of a committee report that states the evidence supporting its findings and an explanation of the reasons for the recommended sanctions.
A Long Island prosecutor has already been investigating whether Santos defrauded supporters. The Federal Election Commission has repeatedly flagged problems with Santos’ campaign finance reports.
Santos admitted that he lied about key parts of his background, including his job experience and college education, after The New York Times raised questions in December about the life story that he presented during his campaign.
“My sins here are embellishing my resume. I’m sorry,” Santos told the New York Post in the wake of the Times' story.
Santos said he obtained a degree from Baruch College in New York, but the school said that couldn’t be confirmed. Santos had also said he had worked for Citigroup and Goldman Sachs, but neither company could find any records verifying that.
A Jewish news outlet, The Forward, questioned a claim on Santos’ campaign website that his grandparents “fled Jewish persecution in Ukraine, settled in Belgium, and again fled persecution during WWII.”
“I never claimed to be Jewish,” Santos told the Post. “I am Catholic. Because I learned my maternal family had a Jewish background I said I was ‘Jew-ish.’”
Since announcing his candidacy in 2021, Santos has reported loaning his campaign organization $705,000, accounting for nearly 25% of its receipts over the last two years.
The underlying question remains how Santos earned the money. Despite his false claims of having worked for big, international banks, he was having financial problems up until a few years ago that led to multiple eviction proceedings from New York City apartments.
When Santos first ran for Congress in 2020, his financial disclosure form listed a modest $55,000 salary from a financial company and no significant assets.
After he lost that race, he took a job selling investments in a company that the Securities and Exchange Commission later accused of being a Ponzi scheme.
Last summer, Santos filed a financial disclosure report suggesting an explosion in his personal wealth.
Santos reported he was making $750,000 per year from his own company, the Devolder Organization, had $1 million to $5 million in savings and owned an apartment in Brazil worth up to $1 million. Santos has yet to fully answer questions about how he got so rich so quickly. In an interview with Semafor, Santos said he worked as a consultant for “high net worth individuals,” helping broker the sale of luxury items like yachts and planes.
__
Associated Press congressional reporter Kevin Freking in Washington contributed to this report. Sisak reported from New York.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
House Dems call Jim Jordan's bluff and dare him to have his 'whistleblowers' testify in public
Story by Tom Boggioni • 4h ago
Unimpressed House Democrats want to put Judiciary Committee Chair Jim Jordan (R-OH) on the spot by making his three FBI "whistleblowers" face publicquestioning about the so-called "weaponization" of the law enforcement agency.
According to a report from the Washington Post, Democrats thus far have been unimpressed with what they have heard, claiming the agents Jordan has dug up have no direct evidence of wrongdoing and are just passing along second-hand anecdotes.
According to an earlier report from the New York Times, "The first three witnesses to testify privately before the new Republican-led House committee investigating the 'weaponization' of the federal governmenthave offered little firsthand knowledge of any wrongdoing or violation of the law, according to Democrats on the panel who have listened to their accounts.
Instead, the trio appears to be a group of aggrieved former F.B.I. officials who have trafficked in right-wing conspiracy theories, including about the Jan. 6, 2021, attack at the Capitol, and received financial support from a top ally of former President Donald J. Trump."
Related video: Jim Jordan's Credibility Questioned Over 'Whistleblowers' Testimony (Newsweek)
The Post is now reporting that Democrats are urging Jordan to let the public hear from the three, with the report explaining, "One has called repeatedly for the dismantling of the F.B.I. Another suggested that it would be better for Americans to die than to have any kind of domestic intelligence program.”
With that in mind, Democrats are now making efforts to put Jordan in a corner.
"They called on Jordan to schedule the witnesses to testify publicly to allow Americans to judge their credibility, suggesting that Republicans were calling the witnesses whistleblowers so they could shield their testimony — and the investigation — from public scrutiny," wrote the Post's Justine McDaniel before adding that Democrats followed up with a statement saying, "Full context and a reasonable rebuttal are necessary to protect the truth. We hope it serves to educate the public about how House Republicans have found very few facts to fit their favorite talking points.”
Post edited by The Juggler on
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,798
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,798
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
https://www.thebulwark.com/exposed-foxs-pander-for-profit-business-model/
https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/01/politics/fact-check-marjorie-taylor-greene-fentanyl-kiessling-trump-biden/index.html
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
^This stupid pledge of allegiance thing illustrates this pretty nicely.
Edit--The Fox / Dominion case also illustrates this in a way.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
So even though the R's do absolutely nothing, they talk big and gather the votes through messaging and yes some culture war stuff.
Obviously transnational capital with unfettered access to free trade having more power than a disconnected global working class is more to blame than any political party.
Sure people continue being fooled, but that is partially due to a lack of a functioning education system, and a glomming of half of the US population as deplorable. But with few material benefits in the way of stability etc coupled with the republican rage based messaging it is easy to see why they cling to the hope of the hollow pie in the sky promises that R's present.
What's the solution? Better D messaging, when possible bigger material benefits through legislation. Though with people like Manchin and Cinema you can't even get that through the party not to mention the impasses involved with getting anything done by with the opposing party.
Sure they are fired up by the culture war, but I think that is just something that they can hold on to and understand. Give people actual prosperity, time with their families, the chance to not be living a financially precarious life, then that culture war shit will fade in to the background. This is beyond just the government and would take a cultural shift along with companies putting people before profits, which is pretty unrealistic. So we are probably fucked. Least of all by some voters that have been deceived.
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
It is almost all culture war stuff. They spent the last election talking about that instead of things that matter. Now that they barely have power, what are they holding hearings about? Mostly bullshit culture war stuff that will not better anyone's lives. It's the entirety of the GOP's agenda right now. They have no solutions so their response is to continually gin up their base over and over and over and over again.
You brought up sending jobs over seas. Obviously that's not just one party doing that. But you know what would bring jobs back to rural areas? Greener, clean energy. That's obviously the future---yet any mention of that stuff goes right out the window for the GOP's constituents because the GOP has successfully made that, something that very likely will turn out to be a life or death issue at some point in the future, a culture war issue. In a perfect world America would be leading this charge, instead we are watching the rest of the world lap us primarily because the GOP is holding us back.
Lowering taxes for middle and lower income, social security/medicare, healthcare etc etc---these are the issues that matter to people. And time and time again, the GOP successfully gets their base to vote against their better interests because they are better at manipulating their base into believing bullshit.
I have no argument that the politicians of that party aren't depraved lunatics that are holding back the country and their constituents.
My point is it is really easy to shit on rank and file Republican voters, but it doesn't do anything except maybe allow us each individually to vent some rage that we can't offload directly on MTG, Chip Roy, Jordan, Gaetz etc. Believe me I've done it, I know how good it feels, but the results are as empty as GOP promises.
I am coming to a place where I am wanting to have compassion and when possible have individual dialogues with people. Sure I will continue to vote D for incremental change and advise against people voting for R's, but I'm done crapping on people that have been deceived to vote against their best interests. Especially when I believe that the current problems facing national and global society can't simply be legislated away or solved by statistically data driven analysis.
One thing the right doesn't get wrong is that there is a sickness in our culture, but it's just a lack of love and compassion and not choice and free expression that is causing the sickness.
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
Fuck Fox News.
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
And to Static's point, I think the right wing echo chamber has radicalized a large group of mostly older, almost completely white part of this population. And it's a problem. Fox started it and the other outlets, as he points out, continue the radicalization.
WHAT
AN
IDIOT
First bold: Campaign finance reform and Electoral College and electioneering fixes. Which party is for? Which against? A current "moderate" repub stated, famously, "corporations are people too."
Second bold: Which party prefers funding public education, specifically pre-K through college? Which party dictates what is taught, mixes religion in and supports home schooling, sucking resources from the greater good? Half the country is not deplorable but a good 35% of repub voters are and the other 65% need to get off their asses and turn out during the primaries. As the Ragin' Cajun' stated, "you know what happens when only stupid people vote in repub primaries? Stupid people get elected." Those other 65% that voted POOTWH need to turn up and turn out the Maggie Three Names, Lorena Bobbits, Matt Getts Offs and Santarias of their party. Not dems.
Third bold: Agree and wish dem leadership would play hardball and force them to change parties. Let the repubs own the shit show. And you know what? That other 65% of repubs, or more than 50% of the 65% would still be fine with it. And all you need to see is their love for Deathsantis, Abbott & Costello, Gnome and Hucksterabee Sanders, Kevin, et. al.
Fourth bold: Are they really deceived? Or are they okay with blaming drag queens, LGBTQ community, wokeness and CRT?
Fifth bold: see Second Bold response.
Sixth bold: Compassion? It is difficult for me to have compassion for individuals that support the shitstorm of the past 6 years. Regardless, if these people are so "deceived" or "misinformed" or whatever other excuse you want to use for their support of POS candidates and fascist policies, I wonder how they function in life? And I bet a good many of them consider themselves "christians" as well? Please. Its more likely that they agree with the 35% of deplorables, or some aspect of their beliefs (gay people will come to the door and convert my kids).
Think about where those people with only box stores for employment opportunities might be if Ronny Rayguns hadn't killed solar, if wind turbines and solar were embraced back in the 80's, if Clinton's health plan had been seriously debated and tweaked in 1993. Clinton gave us FMLA and Biden is trying to make it paid, while Obama gave us a version of universal healthcare. Which party regularly looks out for the "little guy?" Are dems perfect? No fucking way. But repubs? As of today? A complete shit show and its up to their voters, not dem voters, to fix it. For now, they own it and they can wallow in it.
"These people" are not going away and its going to get worse before it gets better. These are perilous times and unless there's a massive rejection of the current state of the repub party, whether outright rejection or voting in moderates of their party, 'Murica is one, maybe two POTUS election cycles from 2024 of ceasing to exist as we know it. Dems can't do it alone.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
My original response was hasty and not well thought out because I am tired of bashing people and talking crap about people that have been fooled and largely don't know better.
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
But sure lets talk crap about the deceived give them zero compassion and expect the Republicans to fix the monster they've created. That is bound to work out.
We have a two party system and for better or worse Dems need to figure out how to bring these people back from the edge, because the Republicans aren't going to fix it.
The other way lies with good ol illiberal democracy.
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
But I admire your outlook. Good luck.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
WASHINGTON (AP) — The House Ethics Committee announced Thursday it is launching an investigation into embattled Republican Rep. George Santos, the New York congressman whose lies and embellishments about his resume and personal life have drawn deep scrutiny.
The investigation appears to be far reaching. It seeks to determine whether Santos "may have engaged in unlawful activity with respect to his 2022 congressional campaign” among other actions, the committee said in a statement.
The panel will also investigate whether Santos "failed to properly disclose required information on statements filed with the House, violated federal conflict of interest laws in connection with his role in a firm providing fiduciary services, and/or engaged in sexual misconduct towards an individual seeking employment in his congressional office," the statement said.
Santos had already removed himself from his committee assignments but otherwise has refused calls from Republicans in New York to step down from office. On Twitter, his office said that he is “fully cooperating” with the Ethics probe and would not comment further.
Ethics committee members David Joyce, R-Ohio, and Susan Wild, D-Pa., will lead the probe, with two other lawmakers from each party. The panel had voted unanimously to establish a subcommittee to investigate the allegations.
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"The Committee notes that the mere fact of establishing an Investigative Subcommittee does not itself indicate that any violation has occurred," Thursday's statement said.
The committee could take an array of actions, from a letter of reprimand to recommending censure and a fine.
It can also recommend expulsion, the sternest form of punishment the House can impose, an action it has used only five times in more than two centuries and never when it comes to conduct that took place before a member was sworn into office. At least two-thirds of the House must vote for expulsion for it to occur.
Any recommendation would be part of a committee report that states the evidence supporting its findings and an explanation of the reasons for the recommended sanctions.
A Long Island prosecutor has already been investigating whether Santos defrauded supporters. The Federal Election Commission has repeatedly flagged problems with Santos’ campaign finance reports.
Santos admitted that he lied about key parts of his background, including his job experience and college education, after The New York Times raised questions in December about the life story that he presented during his campaign.
“My sins here are embellishing my resume. I’m sorry,” Santos told the New York Post in the wake of the Times' story.
Santos said he obtained a degree from Baruch College in New York, but the school said that couldn’t be confirmed. Santos had also said he had worked for Citigroup and Goldman Sachs, but neither company could find any records verifying that.
A Jewish news outlet, The Forward, questioned a claim on Santos’ campaign website that his grandparents “fled Jewish persecution in Ukraine, settled in Belgium, and again fled persecution during WWII.”
“I never claimed to be Jewish,” Santos told the Post. “I am Catholic. Because I learned my maternal family had a Jewish background I said I was ‘Jew-ish.’”
Perhaps the most serious questions facing Santos involve the personal fortune he claims to have used to finance his campaign.
Since announcing his candidacy in 2021, Santos has reported loaning his campaign organization $705,000, accounting for nearly 25% of its receipts over the last two years.
The underlying question remains how Santos earned the money. Despite his false claims of having worked for big, international banks, he was having financial problems up until a few years ago that led to multiple eviction proceedings from New York City apartments.
When Santos first ran for Congress in 2020, his financial disclosure form listed a modest $55,000 salary from a financial company and no significant assets.
After he lost that race, he took a job selling investments in a company that the Securities and Exchange Commission later accused of being a Ponzi scheme.
Last summer, Santos filed a financial disclosure report suggesting an explosion in his personal wealth.
Santos reported he was making $750,000 per year from his own company, the Devolder Organization, had $1 million to $5 million in savings and owned an apartment in Brazil worth up to $1 million. Santos has yet to fully answer questions about how he got so rich so quickly. In an interview with Semafor, Santos said he worked as a consultant for “high net worth individuals,” helping broker the sale of luxury items like yachts and planes.
__
Associated Press congressional reporter Kevin Freking in Washington contributed to this report. Sisak reported from New York.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Also...having someone as intelligent like Dan Goldman on Judiciary opposite dopes like Jordan is just not fair to the GOP.
House Dems call Jim Jordan's bluff and dare him to have his 'whistleblowers' testify in public (msn.com)
House Dems call Jim Jordan's bluff and dare him to have his 'whistleblowers' testify in public
Unimpressed House Democrats want to put Judiciary Committee Chair Jim Jordan (R-OH) on the spot by making his three FBI "whistleblowers" face public questioning about the so-called "weaponization" of the law enforcement agency.
According to a report from the Washington Post, Democrats thus far have been unimpressed with what they have heard, claiming the agents Jordan has dug up have no direct evidence of wrongdoing and are just passing along second-hand anecdotes.
According to an earlier report from the New York Times, "The first three witnesses to testify privately before the new Republican-led House committee investigating the 'weaponization' of the federal governmenthave offered little firsthand knowledge of any wrongdoing or violation of the law, according to Democrats on the panel who have listened to their accounts.
Instead, the trio appears to be a group of aggrieved former F.B.I. officials who have trafficked in right-wing conspiracy theories, including about the Jan. 6, 2021, attack at the Capitol, and received financial support from a top ally of former President Donald J. Trump."
Related video: Jim Jordan's Credibility Questioned Over 'Whistleblowers' Testimony (Newsweek)
The Post is now reporting that Democrats are urging Jordan to let the public hear from the three, with the report explaining, "One has called repeatedly for the dismantling of the F.B.I. Another suggested that it would be better for Americans to die than to have any kind of domestic intelligence program.”
With that in mind, Democrats are now making efforts to put Jordan in a corner.
"They called on Jordan to schedule the witnesses to testify publicly to allow Americans to judge their credibility, suggesting that Republicans were calling the witnesses whistleblowers so they could shield their testimony — and the investigation — from public scrutiny," wrote the Post's Justine McDaniel before adding that Democrats followed up with a statement saying, "Full context and a reasonable rebuttal are necessary to protect the truth. We hope it serves to educate the public about how House Republicans have found very few facts to fit their favorite talking points.”
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14