Knowing What You Know Now, Would You Still Support Trump for President?
Comments
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The president has little to do with the price of gas.Cropduster-80 said:
I never understand that. Not arguing but I just don’t get it.joseph33 said:I dont have a dog on the fight. I voted for Sanders in 2016. Voted for Biden in 2020 and now hate that vote,but what other choice did I have?I can’t think of many things Biden has done/or could do. He’s not abusing executive authority and ultimately policy goes through Congress, he just executes that policy. At a minimum we are at least returning to normal. Signature presidential achievements are almost always stuff Congress has to approve anyway. The two most moderate senate democrats have about as much power as Biden
as much as I hated trump, there wasn’t a lot done there at the start of his term either when he also had the house and senate. Less than I would have thought
inflation, gas prices, Ukraine was happening no matter who is president. I think people give too much credit to what a president can actually control. Supreme Court is one thing a president can do (sometimes) and for that reason alone, Biden is doing ok.I’d give trump a pass on a lot of that out of his control stuff also, to be fair. Unless of course he didn’t sanction Russia, broke up nato and kept gas prices down. Then I’d be mad at the bigger mess that created. Fundamentally that’s the difference though. Trump goes for the quick win, no matter the long term consequences as that won’t affect him anyway. A responsible president makes the hard choices that cause people to be angry now to prevent a larger problem later. I think Trump could have/would have done something concerning Russia and keeping gas prices lower (with foreign policy decisions which a president can do more unilaterally, not domestic policy) but at what cost? Gas prices is the real issue here and presidential approval is tied to that like no other issue.
knowing what I know now, if I could go back to 2020 and vote again, I’d still vote for Biden. The only difference is I would probably try to vote twice, just to make sure0 -
There are a lot of free trade, non social issue, pro business, hawkish foreign policy republicans. Not to mention how much he added to the national debt. Trump’s populism was pretty hard for them to swallowGo Beavers said:
I’d argue that Trump was a perfect candidate for republicans and there was a lot of disingenuous “plugging their nose” when voting for him because there was social pressure to pretend they disapproved of his vile personality.Merkin Baller said:Cropduster-80 said:
I don’t get as angry as many people do with sanders/Green Party voters. Their vote, their choice. I 100 percent support it.Merkin Baller said:
Pretty much.Cropduster-80 said:
Republicans fundamentally get itThe Juggler said:
Ooooph. The bolded sentence means your dog was, inadvertently, Trump.joseph33 said:I dont have a dog on the fight. I voted for Sanders in 2016. Voted for Biden in 2020 and now hate that vote,but what other choice did I have?
as many republicans I know, only a handful were pro trump in 2016. Every single one voted for him though
being anti Hillary was all that mattered . Being anti trump wasn’t enough for liberals. Liberals didn’t prioritise the Supreme Court like conservatives did
I'm also baffled as to how someone could hate their vote for Biden in 2020. I don't like the guy either, but it was and still remains in hindsight, a no brainer when compared to the alternative.
what makes me mad is many take zero responsibility for the outcome of that vote. Even today. many deflect blame on Hillary for being a bad candidate so it wasn’t on them, it was her fault. Well, trump was a bad candidate too for a lot of conservatives.We get the candidates we get after a primary. Trying to rehash a primary in a general never ends well. I don’t think the lesson has been learned, even now
You nailed it when you said republicans fundamentally get it.
They know they have to suck it up & vote for a candidate they don't like in order to get what they want.
Meanwhile democrats & independents sit around waiting for a non-existent perfect candidate to come along & 'earn their vote'.
his base however, probably expanded the party. A lot of old school republicans are still trying to figure out where they fitPost edited by Cropduster-80 on0 -
I know I’m going mostly off people I know and internet banter with more reasonable republicans, but dis you ever hear any of them say “yeah he’s racist but I wanted tax cuts and less regulation”? What I saw was mental gymnastics to make excuses and deny who he is.Cropduster-80 said:
There are a lot of free trade, non social issue, pro business, hawkish foreign policy republicans. Not to mention how much he added to the national debt. Trump’s populism was pretty hard for them to swallowGo Beavers said:
I’d argue that Trump was a perfect candidate for republicans and there was a lot of disingenuous “plugging their nose” when voting for him because there was social pressure to pretend they disapproved of his vile personality.Merkin Baller said:Cropduster-80 said:
I don’t get as angry as many people do with sanders/Green Party voters. Their vote, their choice. I 100 percent support it.Merkin Baller said:
Pretty much.Cropduster-80 said:
Republicans fundamentally get itThe Juggler said:
Ooooph. The bolded sentence means your dog was, inadvertently, Trump.joseph33 said:I dont have a dog on the fight. I voted for Sanders in 2016. Voted for Biden in 2020 and now hate that vote,but what other choice did I have?
as many republicans I know, only a handful were pro trump in 2016. Every single one voted for him though
being anti Hillary was all that mattered . Being anti trump wasn’t enough for liberals. Liberals didn’t prioritise the Supreme Court like conservatives did
I'm also baffled as to how someone could hate their vote for Biden in 2020. I don't like the guy either, but it was and still remains in hindsight, a no brainer when compared to the alternative.
what makes me mad is many take zero responsibility for the outcome of that vote. Even today. many deflect blame on Hillary for being a bad candidate so it wasn’t on them, it was her fault. Well, trump was a bad candidate too for a lot of conservatives.We get the candidates we get after a primary. Trying to rehash a primary in a general never ends well. I don’t think the lesson has been learned, even now
You nailed it when you said republicans fundamentally get it.
They know they have to suck it up & vote for a candidate they don't like in order to get what they want.
Meanwhile democrats & independents sit around waiting for a non-existent perfect candidate to come along & 'earn their vote'.
his base however, probably expanded the party. A lot of old school republicans are still trying to figure out where they fit0 -
I agree there is a lot of that too. At some point I hope they realise they actually aren’t republicans anymore as the party has changedGo Beavers said:
I know I’m going mostly off people I know and internet banter with more reasonable republicans, but dis you ever hear any of them say “yeah he’s racist but I wanted tax cuts and less regulation”? What I saw was mental gymnastics to make excuses and deny who he is.Cropduster-80 said:
There are a lot of free trade, non social issue, pro business, hawkish foreign policy republicans. Not to mention how much he added to the national debt. Trump’s populism was pretty hard for them to swallowGo Beavers said:
I’d argue that Trump was a perfect candidate for republicans and there was a lot of disingenuous “plugging their nose” when voting for him because there was social pressure to pretend they disapproved of his vile personality.Merkin Baller said:Cropduster-80 said:
I don’t get as angry as many people do with sanders/Green Party voters. Their vote, their choice. I 100 percent support it.Merkin Baller said:
Pretty much.Cropduster-80 said:
Republicans fundamentally get itThe Juggler said:
Ooooph. The bolded sentence means your dog was, inadvertently, Trump.joseph33 said:I dont have a dog on the fight. I voted for Sanders in 2016. Voted for Biden in 2020 and now hate that vote,but what other choice did I have?
as many republicans I know, only a handful were pro trump in 2016. Every single one voted for him though
being anti Hillary was all that mattered . Being anti trump wasn’t enough for liberals. Liberals didn’t prioritise the Supreme Court like conservatives did
I'm also baffled as to how someone could hate their vote for Biden in 2020. I don't like the guy either, but it was and still remains in hindsight, a no brainer when compared to the alternative.
what makes me mad is many take zero responsibility for the outcome of that vote. Even today. many deflect blame on Hillary for being a bad candidate so it wasn’t on them, it was her fault. Well, trump was a bad candidate too for a lot of conservatives.We get the candidates we get after a primary. Trying to rehash a primary in a general never ends well. I don’t think the lesson has been learned, even now
You nailed it when you said republicans fundamentally get it.
They know they have to suck it up & vote for a candidate they don't like in order to get what they want.
Meanwhile democrats & independents sit around waiting for a non-existent perfect candidate to come along & 'earn their vote'.
his base however, probably expanded the party. A lot of old school republicans are still trying to figure out where they fit
Liz Cheney is a good example of an old school Republican. She’s going to lose, but even getting 20 percent of the vote or something, that will at least be a good indication of how many traditional republicans there still are.It’s a sizeable enough population that if they left the GOP altogether it would be catastrophic for the party.
They aren’t exactly trying to keep them either
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Go Beavers said:
The president has little to do with the price of gas.Cropduster-80 said:
I never understand that. Not arguing but I just don’t get it.joseph33 said:I dont have a dog on the fight. I voted for Sanders in 2016. Voted for Biden in 2020 and now hate that vote,but what other choice did I have?I can’t think of many things Biden has done/or could do. He’s not abusing executive authority and ultimately policy goes through Congress, he just executes that policy. At a minimum we are at least returning to normal. Signature presidential achievements are almost always stuff Congress has to approve anyway. The two most moderate senate democrats have about as much power as Biden
as much as I hated trump, there wasn’t a lot done there at the start of his term either when he also had the house and senate. Less than I would have thought
inflation, gas prices, Ukraine was happening no matter who is president. I think people give too much credit to what a president can actually control. Supreme Court is one thing a president can do (sometimes) and for that reason alone, Biden is doing ok.I’d give trump a pass on a lot of that out of his control stuff also, to be fair. Unless of course he didn’t sanction Russia, broke up nato and kept gas prices down. Then I’d be mad at the bigger mess that created. Fundamentally that’s the difference though. Trump goes for the quick win, no matter the long term consequences as that won’t affect him anyway. A responsible president makes the hard choices that cause people to be angry now to prevent a larger problem later. I think Trump could have/would have done something concerning Russia and keeping gas prices lower (with foreign policy decisions which a president can do more unilaterally, not domestic policy) but at what cost? Gas prices is the real issue here and presidential approval is tied to that like no other issue.
knowing what I know now, if I could go back to 2020 and vote again, I’d still vote for Biden. The only difference is I would probably try to vote twice, just to make sureYes on a short term basis, just a little can be done. But long term?Do we want to drill baby drill, or flood rural America with jobs creating wind farms? Dems should be blanketing rural and exurban America with hundred dollar bills and plans to build solar and wind farms for renewable energy, but our elections are instead about email servers, 2% tax cuts, CRT and antifa fear mongering. Seems to work well enough with independents
The presidency should be a transformational job, but elections every two years, and most living in information silos, turn it into a chest thumping misinformation contest.0 -
Lerxst1992 said:Go Beavers said:
The president has little to do with the price of gas.Cropduster-80 said:
I never understand that. Not arguing but I just don’t get it.joseph33 said:I dont have a dog on the fight. I voted for Sanders in 2016. Voted for Biden in 2020 and now hate that vote,but what other choice did I have?I can’t think of many things Biden has done/or could do. He’s not abusing executive authority and ultimately policy goes through Congress, he just executes that policy. At a minimum we are at least returning to normal. Signature presidential achievements are almost always stuff Congress has to approve anyway. The two most moderate senate democrats have about as much power as Biden
as much as I hated trump, there wasn’t a lot done there at the start of his term either when he also had the house and senate. Less than I would have thought
inflation, gas prices, Ukraine was happening no matter who is president. I think people give too much credit to what a president can actually control. Supreme Court is one thing a president can do (sometimes) and for that reason alone, Biden is doing ok.I’d give trump a pass on a lot of that out of his control stuff also, to be fair. Unless of course he didn’t sanction Russia, broke up nato and kept gas prices down. Then I’d be mad at the bigger mess that created. Fundamentally that’s the difference though. Trump goes for the quick win, no matter the long term consequences as that won’t affect him anyway. A responsible president makes the hard choices that cause people to be angry now to prevent a larger problem later. I think Trump could have/would have done something concerning Russia and keeping gas prices lower (with foreign policy decisions which a president can do more unilaterally, not domestic policy) but at what cost? Gas prices is the real issue here and presidential approval is tied to that like no other issue.
knowing what I know now, if I could go back to 2020 and vote again, I’d still vote for Biden. The only difference is I would probably try to vote twice, just to make sureYes on a short term basis, just a little can be done. But long term?Do we want to drill baby drill, or flood rural America with jobs creating wind farms? Dems should be blanketing rural and exurban America with hundred dollar bills and plans to build solar and wind farms for renewable energy, but our elections are instead about email servers, 2% tax cuts, CRT and antifa fear mongering. Seems to work well enough with independents
The presidency should be a transformational job, but elections every two years, and most living in information silos, turn it into a chest thumping misinformation contest.Some good ideas there although I hope we come up with better alternative solutions. Wind farms, for example have the drawbacks of noise pollution, visual eyesores, and do kill many birds. Putting up solar panels over parking lots and on buildings seems like a good idea, but solar panel farms are far more destructive to ecosystems (especially fragile desert ecosystems) than we generally hear about. Perhaps an alternative solution would be improving mass transit, having people live closer to work to cut down on commuting (and insanely unsustainable notion in the first place), and cut waste my producing durable goods.I like your idea of putting people to work creating better alternatives. Because railroad transportation is the most energy efficient mode of transporting goods and people, I would love to see us put people to work reviving and expanding rail service. In fact, if I were in a position like the POTUS to do so, I would make that one of my top priorities. That and large scale production of hemp, an easily grown, nitrogen fixing plant that has many excellent uses from paper to clothing to building supplies. Those two things alone would make improvements in our world that would be massive in scale.But, alas, we rarely hear that. It boggles my mind that we ignore the most basic solutions to things."It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
People don’t really care where their power comes from as long as they are buying it.
residential solar is where it’s no longer abstract. The 28 percent federal tax rebate for the total cost of your system (or whatever that number is currently) is a good start but it’s still a lot of cash to in effect prepay your electric bill.
an easy way to add that cost to your mortgage would be a nice start0 -
We are starting to see wind and solar going up in rural America. Why may this be a good idea? Land is cheap and plentiful. And if people want to lease their land and make some money, why not? Also, construction + maintenance = jobs jobs jobs.And maybe change a few minds that technology and progress ain’t all bad. We don’t need factory jobs to all return, there are other ways to build the economy. Like Brian said, it ain’t perfect, but I think it’s a little better for earth than coal and oil.0
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Rural America should be all over it, in theoryLerxst1992 said:We are starting to see wind and solar going up in rural America. Why may this be a good idea? Land is cheap and plentiful. And if people want to lease their land and make some money, why not? Also, construction + maintenance = jobs jobs jobs.And maybe change a few minds that technology and progress ain’t all bad. We don’t need factory jobs to all return, there are other ways to build the economy. Like Brian said, it ain’t perfect, but I think it’s a little better for earth than coal and oil.
solar on your house, plus if you have enough batteries and then rolling blackouts, blizzards, hurricanes or whatever you are fine even if everyone else is in the dark. It’s kind of right up their alley with self reliance
I get why they don’t want giant fields of panels though, they have to look at it and it powers the city. It’s more a question of how does this help me?Climate change isn’t enough0 -
Was driving upstate NY a week ago, saw lots of windmills about 30 mins outside of Binghamton. What’s in that area? Trees, hills, farms, some trump voters, and not much else. It’s like rural America is almost becoming like the ancient tribes of the Amazon, completely cut off from modern society. They don’t want to know about anything other than when is the factory coming back, and how many years has it been since youve seen a democrat.
With renewable projects, it’s a way to show them there is a better way to build their economy, add jobs, and perhaps be connected to the ever changing modern world. And cut down on carbon as a bonus. Wiki looks a little outdated, but has some good info,0 -
Future cancer cluster...Lerxst1992 said:Was driving upstate NY a week ago, saw lots of windmills about 30 mins outside of Binghamton. What’s in that area? Trees, hills, farms, some trump voters, and not much else. It’s like rural America is almost becoming like the ancient tribes of the Amazon, completely cut off from modern society. They don’t want to know about anything other than when is the factory coming back, and how many years has it been since youve seen a democrat.
With renewable projects, it’s a way to show them there is a better way to build their economy, add jobs, and perhaps be connected to the ever changing modern world. And cut down on carbon as a bonus. Wiki looks a little outdated, but has some good info,1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
2024 Napa, Wrigley, Wrigley0 -
If he could stay the fuck off Twitter and keep his mouth shut at the first thing that popped in his head,I think I probably would.0
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joseph33 said:If he could stay the fuck off Twitter and keep his mouth shut at the first thing that popped in his head,I think I probably would.
Because his racism is just fine?
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Lerxst1992 said:Was driving upstate NY a week ago, saw lots of windmills about 30 mins outside of Binghamton. What’s in that area? Trees, hills, farms, some trump voters, and not much else. It’s like rural America is almost becoming like the ancient tribes of the Amazon, completely cut off from modern society. They don’t want to know about anything other than when is the factory coming back, and how many years has it been since youve seen a democrat.
With renewable projects, it’s a way to show them there is a better way to build their economy, add jobs, and perhaps be connected to the ever changing modern world. And cut down on carbon as a bonus. Wiki looks a little outdated, but has some good info,To paraphrase George Carlin: "It's not the trees, hills, and farms that are fucked. It's the people that are fucked."And even that is not altogether true. Some of our best, brightest, and bravest eco-defenders are/ were tree, hill, farm, (and desert) people (just to name a few off the top of my head):Wendell Berry
Terry Tempest Williams
Edward Abbey
Doug Peacock
Bill McKibben
Aldo Leopold
Robert Michael Pyle
John Muir
Henry David ThoreauAnd as for rural places in general, I would be very hesitant to litter these with windmills and solar farms. Windmills, are noisy, ugly, dangerous for birds and, perhaps worse of all, create a great deal of waste. Look at these non-recyclable windmill blades (see the tractor to get the full idea of how large/ how many (this is just one blade dump, there are many):These and other facts about windmill and solar panel farms are rarely spoken about, even by so-called liberal press. And if you know anything at all, you know I am strongly pro-environment. I don't say these things lightly and I don't say them to be contrarian. The situation is much more complex than popular "environmentalism" would have you believe. We really need to study, think, and plan better. The solutions we hear most often are not going to buy us enough time. And I REALLY don't say that lightly.
Post edited by brianlux on"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
I told you guys he did have a dog in this fight. loljoseph33 said:If he could stay the fuck off Twitter and keep his mouth shut at the first thing that popped in his head,I think I probably would.
www.myspace.com0 -
lol his twitter personality is who he really actually is.joseph33 said:If he could stay the fuck off Twitter and keep his mouth shut at the first thing that popped in his head,I think I probably would."You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
That’s the problem.gimmesometruth27 said:
lol his twitter personality is who he really actually is.joseph33 said:If he could stay the fuck off Twitter and keep his mouth shut at the first thing that popped in his head,I think I probably would.0 -
He could come down on a puffy white cloud from the heavens above with wings on his shoulders I’d still vote against him! Screw that!jesus greets me looks just like me ....0
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