Knowing What You Know Now, Would You Still Support Trump for President?

Cropduster-80

joseph33 said:

I dont have a dog on the fight. I voted for Sanders in 2016. Voted for Biden in 2020 and now hate that vote,but what other choice did I have?

I never understand that.  Not arguing but I just don’t get it. 

I can’t think of many things Biden has done/or could do. He’s not abusing executive authority and ultimately policy goes through Congress, he just executes that policy. At a minimum we are at least returning to normal.  Signature presidential achievements are almost always stuff Congress has to approve anyway.  The two most moderate senate democrats have about as much power as Biden  

as much as I hated trump, there wasn’t a lot done there at the start of his term either when he also had the house and senate.  Less than I would have thought 

inflation, gas prices, Ukraine  was happening no matter who is president.  I think people give too much credit to what a president can actually control. Supreme Court is one thing a president can do (sometimes) and for that reason alone, Biden is doing ok.  

I’d give trump a pass on a lot of that out of his control stuff also,  to be fair. Unless of course he didn’t sanction Russia, broke up nato and kept gas prices down. Then I’d be mad at the bigger mess that created.  Fundamentally that’s the difference though. Trump goes for the quick win, no matter the long term consequences as that won’t affect him anyway. A responsible president makes the hard choices that cause people to be angry now to prevent a larger problem later.  I think Trump could have/would have done something concerning Russia and keeping gas prices lower (with foreign policy decisions which a president can do more unilaterally, not domestic policy) but at what cost? Gas prices is the real issue here and presidential approval is tied to that like no other issue.

knowing what I know now, if I could go back to 2020 and vote again, I’d still vote for Biden.  The only difference is I would probably try to vote twice, just to make sure 

The Juggler

joseph33 said:

I dont have a dog on the fight. I voted for Sanders in 2016. Voted for Biden in 2020 and now hate that vote,but what other choice did I have?

Ooooph. The bolded sentence means your dog was, inadvertently, Trump. 

Cropduster-80

The Juggler said:

joseph33 said:

I dont have a dog on the fight. I voted for Sanders in 2016. Voted for Biden in 2020 and now hate that vote,but what other choice did I have?

Ooooph. The bolded sentence means your dog was, inadvertently, Trump. 

Republicans fundamentally get it 

as many republicans I know, only a handful were pro trump in 2016.  Every single one voted for him though 

being anti Hillary was all that mattered .  Being anti trump wasn’t enough for liberals.  Liberals didn’t prioritise the Supreme Court like conservatives did 

Merkin Baller

Cropduster-80 said:

The Juggler said:

joseph33 said:

I dont have a dog on the fight. I voted for Sanders in 2016. Voted for Biden in 2020 and now hate that vote,but what other choice did I have?

Ooooph. The bolded sentence means your dog was, inadvertently, Trump. 

Republicans fundamentally get it 

as many republicans I know, only a handful were pro trump in 2016.  Every single one voted for him though 

being anti Hillary was all that mattered .  Being anti trump wasn’t enough for liberals.  Liberals didn’t prioritise the Supreme Court like conservatives did 

Pretty much. 

I'm also baffled as to how someone could hate their vote for Biden in 2020. I don't like the guy either, but it was and still remains in hindsight, a no brainer when compared to the alternative.  

The Juggler

Merkin Baller said:

Cropduster-80 said:

The Juggler said:

joseph33 said:

I dont have a dog on the fight. I voted for Sanders in 2016. Voted for Biden in 2020 and now hate that vote,but what other choice did I have?

Ooooph. The bolded sentence means your dog was, inadvertently, Trump. 

Republicans fundamentally get it 

as many republicans I know, only a handful were pro trump in 2016.  Every single one voted for him though 

being anti Hillary was all that mattered .  Being anti trump wasn’t enough for liberals.  Liberals didn’t prioritise the Supreme Court like conservatives did 

Pretty much. 

I'm also baffled as to how someone could hate their vote for Biden in 2020. I don't like the guy either, but it was and still remains in hindsight, a no brainer when compared to the alternative.  

Spot on. Both of you.

Fucking emails. People were up in arms over fucking emails six years ago.  

Cropduster-80

Merkin Baller said:

Cropduster-80 said:

The Juggler said:

joseph33 said:

I dont have a dog on the fight. I voted for Sanders in 2016. Voted for Biden in 2020 and now hate that vote,but what other choice did I have?

Ooooph. The bolded sentence means your dog was, inadvertently, Trump. 

Republicans fundamentally get it 

as many republicans I know, only a handful were pro trump in 2016.  Every single one voted for him though 

being anti Hillary was all that mattered .  Being anti trump wasn’t enough for liberals.  Liberals didn’t prioritise the Supreme Court like conservatives did 

Pretty much. 

I'm also baffled as to how someone could hate their vote for Biden in 2020. I don't like the guy either, but it was and still remains in hindsight, a no brainer when compared to the alternative.  

I don’t get as angry as many people do with sanders/Green Party voters.  Their vote, their choice. I 100 percent support it. 

what makes me mad is many take zero responsibility for the outcome of that vote. Even today. many deflect blame on Hillary for being a bad candidate so it wasn’t on them, it was her fault.   Well, trump was a bad candidate too for a lot of conservatives. 

 We get the candidates we get after a primary. Trying to rehash a primary in a general never ends well.  I don’t think the lesson has been learned, even now 

Merkin Baller

Cropduster-80 said:

Merkin Baller said:

Cropduster-80 said:

The Juggler said:

joseph33 said:

I dont have a dog on the fight. I voted for Sanders in 2016. Voted for Biden in 2020 and now hate that vote,but what other choice did I have?

Ooooph. The bolded sentence means your dog was, inadvertently, Trump. 

Republicans fundamentally get it 

as many republicans I know, only a handful were pro trump in 2016.  Every single one voted for him though 

being anti Hillary was all that mattered .  Being anti trump wasn’t enough for liberals.  Liberals didn’t prioritise the Supreme Court like conservatives did 

Pretty much. 

I'm also baffled as to how someone could hate their vote for Biden in 2020. I don't like the guy either, but it was and still remains in hindsight, a no brainer when compared to the alternative.  

I don’t get as angry as many people do with sanders/Green Party voters.  Their vote, their choice. I 100 percent support it. 

what makes me mad is many take zero responsibility for the outcome of that vote. Even today. many deflect blame on Hillary for being a bad candidate so it wasn’t on them, it was her fault.   Well, trump was a bad candidate too for a lot of conservatives. 

 We get the candidates we get after a primary. Trying to rehash a primary in a general never ends well.  I don’t think the lesson has been learned, even now 

You nailed it when you said republicans fundamentally get it. 

They know they have to suck it up & vote for a candidate they don't like in order to get what they want. 


Meanwhile democrats & independents sit around waiting for a non-existent perfect candidate to come along & 'earn their vote'.

Cropduster-80

Not to get too controversial but black voters have been particularly loyal.  They get nothing for it.  The democrats have historically not done as much as they should for a major source of votes. They should be mad at their party.  They vote for democrats anyway and overwhelmingly as the alternative is way worse. They get it. 

  Then you’ve got sanders voters who want free college for everyone and vote for him because of that. I can’t help but to see first world problems driving certain groups of democrats to defect.  If they had real problems like some other groups they might get it too 

Merkin Baller

Cropduster-80 said:

Not to get too controversial but black voters have been particularly loyal.  They get nothing for it.  The democrats have historically not done as much as they should for a major source of votes. They should be mad at their party.  They vote for democrats anyway and overwhelmingly as the alternative is way worse. They get it. 

  Then you’ve got sanders voters who want free college for everyone and vote for him because of that. I can’t help but to see first world problems driving certain groups of democrats to defect.  If they had real problems like some other groups they might get it too 

Black voters have only been able to vote for 57 years now. I can't help but think they still realize how important that right is.... The GOP knows how important voting is, as evidenced by gerrymandering & all their other election related fuckery. 

nicknyr15

Cropduster-80 said:

Not to get too controversial but black voters have been particularly loyal.  They get nothing for it.  The democrats have historically not done as much as they should for a major source of votes. They should be mad at their party.  They vote for democrats anyway and overwhelmingly as the alternative is way worse. They get it. 

  Then you’ve got sanders voters who want free college for everyone and vote for him because of that. I can’t help but to see first world problems driving certain groups of democrats to defect.  If they had real problems like some other groups they might get it too 

Great post. 

Lerxst1992

Cropduster-80 said:

Not to get too controversial but black voters have been particularly loyal.  They get nothing for it.  The democrats have historically not done as much as they should for a major source of votes. They should be mad at their party.  They vote for democrats anyway and overwhelmingly as the alternative is way worse. They get it. 

  Then you’ve got sanders voters who want free college for everyone and vote for him because of that. I can’t help but to see first world problems driving certain groups of democrats to defect.  If they had real problems like some other groups they might get it too 

Isn’t the bureaucratic health care system a real problem? That’s probably the central driver for team Bernie voters? 

Democrats haven’t done as much as they should for their base? We can’t count the current congress, democrats simply do not have the votes in the senate with manchin and sinema. The last time they had the votes, they passed ACA, which increased access to healthcare, and also  increased access to Medicaid. That should be a pretty big deal for the base.

So the polls tell us plenty are mad at Biden and the Dems. So the choice is either vote more Dems in the house and senate, and perhaps they can get around manchin and the filibuster. But get mad at the Dems and vote Republican? You can probably say goodbye to ACA and hello to an old friend, preexisting conditions. Maybe we can also try for seven Republican Justices, and see what more joy the court can bring the country!

Cropduster-80

I like national health care. ACA is what we got.  Bernie was running on something not attainable currently.  Hillary did get punished for not promising it.  Bernie broke through with a lot of social programs with zero chance of passing 

I’ve had 3 kids born in the NHS so if more people did that, more would be less afraid of “socialised medicine” .  It’s just not where we are at as a country unfortunately 

the far left wants the Bernie agenda.  Nothing wrong with that, just that it won’t happen anytime soon 

OnWis97

Cropduster-80 said:

I like national health care. ACA is what we got.  Bernie was running on something not attainable currently.  Hillary did get punished for not promising it.  Bernie broke through with a lot of social programs with zero chance of passing 

I’ve had 3 kids born in the NHS so if more people did that, more would be less afraid of “socialised medicine” .  It’s just not where we are at as a country unfortunately 

the far left wants the Bernie agenda.  Nothing wrong with that, just that it won’t happen anytime soon 

I want the Bernie agenda. It's a T-Bone steak. But I'm not going to pass up on a hamburger to demand an unattainable T-bone steak knowing it'll result in getting a shit sandwich. I'll take the hamburger.

We need to get back to normal before we can get to perfect. "But normal is terrible." Well, you ain't seen nuthin' yet.

Perfect is the enemy of satisfactory.

cincybearcat

Bernie = perfect is pretty much crazy talk in my opinion

mrussel1

OnWis97 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

I like national health care. ACA is what we got.  Bernie was running on something not attainable currently.  Hillary did get punished for not promising it.  Bernie broke through with a lot of social programs with zero chance of passing 

I’ve had 3 kids born in the NHS so if more people did that, more would be less afraid of “socialised medicine” .  It’s just not where we are at as a country unfortunately 

the far left wants the Bernie agenda.  Nothing wrong with that, just that it won’t happen anytime soon 

I want the Bernie agenda. It's a T-Bone steak. But I'm not going to pass up on a hamburger to demand an unattainable T-bone steak knowing it'll result in getting a shit sandwich. I'll take the hamburger.

We need to get back to normal before we can get to perfect. "But normal is terrible." Well, you ain't seen nuthin' yet.

Perfect is the enemy of satisfactory.

Agreed.  And normal definitely isn't terrible. 

dankind

mrussel1 said:

OnWis97 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

I like national health care. ACA is what we got.  Bernie was running on something not attainable currently.  Hillary did get punished for not promising it.  Bernie broke through with a lot of social programs with zero chance of passing 

I’ve had 3 kids born in the NHS so if more people did that, more would be less afraid of “socialised medicine” .  It’s just not where we are at as a country unfortunately 

the far left wants the Bernie agenda.  Nothing wrong with that, just that it won’t happen anytime soon 

I want the Bernie agenda. It's a T-Bone steak. But I'm not going to pass up on a hamburger to demand an unattainable T-bone steak knowing it'll result in getting a shit sandwich. I'll take the hamburger.

We need to get back to normal before we can get to perfect. "But normal is terrible." Well, you ain't seen nuthin' yet.

Perfect is the enemy of satisfactory.

Agreed.  And normal definitely isn't terrible. 

Spoken like a true WMA.

mrussel1

dankind said:

mrussel1 said:

OnWis97 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

I like national health care. ACA is what we got.  Bernie was running on something not attainable currently.  Hillary did get punished for not promising it.  Bernie broke through with a lot of social programs with zero chance of passing 

I’ve had 3 kids born in the NHS so if more people did that, more would be less afraid of “socialised medicine” .  It’s just not where we are at as a country unfortunately 

the far left wants the Bernie agenda.  Nothing wrong with that, just that it won’t happen anytime soon 

I want the Bernie agenda. It's a T-Bone steak. But I'm not going to pass up on a hamburger to demand an unattainable T-bone steak knowing it'll result in getting a shit sandwich. I'll take the hamburger.

We need to get back to normal before we can get to perfect. "But normal is terrible." Well, you ain't seen nuthin' yet.

Perfect is the enemy of satisfactory.

Agreed.  And normal definitely isn't terrible. 

Spoken like a true WMA.

Oh bring on the virtue signaling.  You're a pro. 

OnWis97

cincybearcat said:

Bernie = perfect is pretty much crazy talk in my opinion

Mine, either. I used to say "great is the enemy of good" but when it comes to moderate Dems the obvious reply is "but Biden isn't good."

dankind

mrussel1 said:

dankind said:

mrussel1 said:

OnWis97 said:

Cropduster-80 said:

I like national health care. ACA is what we got.  Bernie was running on something not attainable currently.  Hillary did get punished for not promising it.  Bernie broke through with a lot of social programs with zero chance of passing 

I’ve had 3 kids born in the NHS so if more people did that, more would be less afraid of “socialised medicine” .  It’s just not where we are at as a country unfortunately 

the far left wants the Bernie agenda.  Nothing wrong with that, just that it won’t happen anytime soon 

I want the Bernie agenda. It's a T-Bone steak. But I'm not going to pass up on a hamburger to demand an unattainable T-bone steak knowing it'll result in getting a shit sandwich. I'll take the hamburger.

We need to get back to normal before we can get to perfect. "But normal is terrible." Well, you ain't seen nuthin' yet.

Perfect is the enemy of satisfactory.

Agreed.  And normal definitely isn't terrible. 

Spoken like a true WMA.

Oh bring on the virtue signaling.  You're a pro. 

Why, thank you.

Go Beavers

Merkin Baller said:

Cropduster-80 said:

Merkin Baller said:

Cropduster-80 said:

The Juggler said:

joseph33 said:

I dont have a dog on the fight. I voted for Sanders in 2016. Voted for Biden in 2020 and now hate that vote,but what other choice did I have?

Ooooph. The bolded sentence means your dog was, inadvertently, Trump. 

Republicans fundamentally get it 

as many republicans I know, only a handful were pro trump in 2016.  Every single one voted for him though 

being anti Hillary was all that mattered .  Being anti trump wasn’t enough for liberals.  Liberals didn’t prioritise the Supreme Court like conservatives did 

Pretty much. 

I'm also baffled as to how someone could hate their vote for Biden in 2020. I don't like the guy either, but it was and still remains in hindsight, a no brainer when compared to the alternative.  

I don’t get as angry as many people do with sanders/Green Party voters.  Their vote, their choice. I 100 percent support it. 

what makes me mad is many take zero responsibility for the outcome of that vote. Even today. many deflect blame on Hillary for being a bad candidate so it wasn’t on them, it was her fault.   Well, trump was a bad candidate too for a lot of conservatives. 

 We get the candidates we get after a primary. Trying to rehash a primary in a general never ends well.  I don’t think the lesson has been learned, even now 

You nailed it when you said republicans fundamentally get it. 

They know they have to suck it up & vote for a candidate they don't like in order to get what they want. 


Meanwhile democrats & independents sit around waiting for a non-existent perfect candidate to come along & 'earn their vote'.

I’d argue that Trump was a perfect candidate for republicans and there was a lot of disingenuous “plugging their nose” when voting for him because there was social pressure to pretend they disapproved of his vile personality.