static111 said:

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

Slow news on the Ukraine front.  I've been wondering what happens if we fund this to the last standing Ukrainian and what that would mean as far as being a completely destabilized Ukraine and what that means to Europe.  A bunch of displaced people and a bunch of men with military experience and training, some of whom are very right wing.  Could this support come back to bite us like it did with Afghanistan/Al Qaeda?  With the global economy being further shredded and the threat of major food shortages worldwide especially in the global south and poorer countries should we not be trying to push for a settlement and some brokered talks?   Russia gets Donbas and Crimea Ukraine becomes Swiss like?  How much of the idea that Putin won't stop at Ukraine is sabre rattling and Manufacturing Consent?  On the other side if Ukraine somehow manages to "win" and Putin falls how does a completely destabilized Russia help the world?  What does a Russia completely financially in debt and dominated by China look like?  In a country where we are currently wondering what to do about domestic gun violence and far right ideology, why are we so quick to say that more guns is the answer here?  I have always been anti war at least since I have been an adult and have had my own agency of thought.  21st century and the cold war is alive and well.  there has to be another way of going forward that isn't that the US military power structure dictates the global narrative.  Sure giving up part of Ukraine to a hostile force isn't ideal and would not be easy to accept, but what is the alternative?  Do we let this proxy war become the real thing?  WWI was started from something far stupider than this.  

Ukraine is not Afghanistan.  They are not jihadist.  So no, I don't think there's any chance that you have marauding bands of soldiers in filtering into Moldova or something.  

It's always been the most likely outcome that some eastern Oblasts fall into Russian control.  That doesn't mean Ukraine should just let it happen and not fight.  And if the West cuts off arms, the whole of Ukraine will fall which will lead to massive humanitarian crisis along with senseless death of all types of citizenry, not just soldiers in battle.  Russia has proven that they will commit war crimes many times in the past and in Ukraine.  

No offense, but the news narrative of the last week is typical Americanism.  Didn't win a war in a month or two?  Tide turns a bit or there are setback?  Time to pull the plug.  My interest is elsewhere.  

This was always going to be a hard slog.  

Was Afghanistan seen as a Jihadist country before the USSR and USA decided to have a proxy war there?

The only winners with the west supplying arms seem to be the weapons manufacturers.  

Like I said I have pretty much been anti war since being an adult, so war is never something that I am in favor of.  The idea that this is "typical americanism" as didn't win in a month or two is a joke.  Typical americanism is overfunding and overstaying any conflict to the absolute breaking point with the idea that we are serving american strategic interests and geo-political stability or even laughably the concept of good vs evil, which has got us nowhere. I'm unsure that any of our forays in my 40 year life span have done a lot for global stability, if anything it has usually caused the opposite.

  Why wouldn't typical Americans begin to question if this is going to turn into another 20 year money sink.  I will admit that at the beginning of this conflict I was thinking that here we are with a just cause for once, how much of that was influenced by print and social media I can't calculate.  I do know that as the situation has escalated I have asked myself what the difference is between Iraq, Afghanistan and Ukraine when it comes to US involvement...I'm not sure there is any.

The people bearing the brunt of the financial woes in america are the poor and working class.  Obviously Ukrainians have it much worse with war at their actual doors. Global food instability that will damage former US Soviet playgrounds like afghanistan will affect us to a much lower level, except for the rising costs of groceries and gas that the uneducated rabble care so much about.

Yes, I was talking about media moving on to other things, which is what is happening as we speak.  

1. Afghanistan is a radicalized country, fighting against the West and Christianity.  Whether the Soviet and US wars created that or accentuated it is a bigger argument.  But I can't see any scenario where Ukraine, which has been trying to westernize against the yoke of Russia, would suddenly radicalize against the west.

2. The cause is the same today as it was in February.  What is changing for you?  Is it gas prices, grain prices?  Is it suddenly that you think we can't afford it?  Affording it is a red herring.  Everything we do, we borrow.  

The difference between Iraq and Ukraine is completely different. 
A) Iraq was waged for two reasons: 1. Access to oil 2. Making the mid east safe for Israel. 
Ukraine is the front line against a quasi-Fascist state that has been slowly trying to expand its economic and military power through wars of aggression in Chechnya, Georgia and now Ukraine.  Putin must be checked. 
C) We invaded Iraq to overthrow the existing gov't and tried to fight a war in their own territory.  For Ukraine, we are supporting young liberal democracy that seeks to protect its own freedom and right to self determination.
D) Our troops aren't on the ground in Ukraine.  They were in Iraq. 

The difference between Iraq and Ukraine could not be any more stark.  I honestly don't know how you can compare the two.  The only commonality is that they both cost money, but I'm pretty sure if you add up the costs, Iraq will be just a touch higher.  

I've been thinking about this for a couple days since you posted the questions about what has changed, because I want to give a genuine answer. My chief concern is what this conflict is doing globally.  I'm not concerned of the $40 bn or so spent directly so far.  I am more concerned about if the western economy can handle this on top of the other crisis that we can't seem to manage currently.  $5 a gallon gas and the rapid increase in prices due to the increased cost of shipping, increased price of fertilizer, speculation of a worldwide grain shortage etc.  It does not appear that there is an end in sight for the ever increasing cost of living.  How long until this creates more discord in our country and other western countries, that is if it isn't already having that effect?  Sure part of the current problem is that the increasing profits especially for energy and shipping companies are much higher than what should they should be assuming that the only costs being passed along are based on the cost of a barrel of oil, but what does that mean for the majority of americans and western families making less than 6 figures a year?  The rapid rise in prices and inflation, though already escalating due to covid and "supply chain bottlenecks" has gotten out of control since the war and the sanctions started. This is the economic side of things I am worried about.  Not to mention that the worse these economic woes are the more chance the american facist right will sweep back into power BIGLY. If there is one thing that Western Democracies are good at, its resiliency and adaptability. There may be short term pain and it might suck for a spell but government and industry typically find their way out. Look at Europe or Japan after WWII. Completely devastated. And look at them today. As for shipping, that's what happens when the world allows for 10 major players to control the market. They're also raking in record profits so far outside the norm that its sickening. And I don't hear the public criticizing them. Misplaced at Brandon. I ordered two large pizza's, each with 3 toppings, and 18 wings with a side of fries. With tip, $93.00. They charged me $1.00 for ordering online. Guess what? I won't be ordering pizza and wings for a while. The fascists will be sweeping into power in 2022 and 2024. And its going to be ugly.

As far as what is happening in terms of the war.  Well millions have fled all over Europe and that is obviously not a stabilizing thing.  As I said in a previous post, what good does prolonging a war that Russia may ultimately win or end in a stalemate really do for anyone including Ukrainians?  Lets say Ukraine wins, pushes Russia back and reclaims Crimea.  What incentive does Vladimir and the Russian state have to continue playing ball with the international order?  None.  Which will inevitably lead to stronger ties with China, who are also supposedly enemies of the american people.  If Russia fights to the last Ukranian and demolishes Ukraine, what does a completely destabilized Ukraine with a fringe of quasi Neo-Nazi sympathizers that now have training from Nato and US special forces mean?  Blow back? Nah that has never happened to us before.   What about all of the American White Supremacists that are Volunteering for Ukraine?  Neither of these things is russian Propaganda, the current DHS is concerned about homegrown supremacists travelling to Ukraine and getting battlefield experience, and recently within the last few years a stipulation of us aiding Ukraine was that weapons and training would not go to known Ukrainian Neo Nazi groups like C14(stands for: we must secure the existence of our people and a future for White children) and Azov.  Why else would members of the house of representatives have wrote a letter to the department of state with concern to anti semitism in Poland and Ukraine.  Now obviously you are thinking that I have bought the Russian propaganda, well no I have absolutely no illusion that the Ukraine is full of a majortiy of Nazis. Heck I understand a lot of the looking the other way as some of these groups provided the necessary force for Maidan revolution. I am worried that depending how things go the minority of neo nazi nationalists could become a significant regional or global problem, and any entrance into nato should probably require a purging of these influences.  And of course I have to add the disclaimer, the presence of small groups of  neo-nazis does not justify invading a sovereign country, if it did someone would have had grounds to war with us long ago. Legitimate concern. But from what I've read of the Americans fighting in Ukraine, its not what they expected and its a rude wake up call. Nothing like playing Call of Duty and even military vets who didn't see action in the US military are having a tough time of it due to the nature of the units, lack of communication, control structure. I think you'll see less of this rather than more as time goes on.

 
Environmental concerns:  With the rising price of everything and the rising price of fuel this has probably shot any chance at a sustainable future.  Though it was gonna be a hard sell to begin with I am thinking the push for renewables and EVs is going to be crushed.  The high price of gas currently has public opinion turning towards the drill baby drill line all the world over.  Public opinion of kitchen table politics is currently bring the prices down. While a lot of people in the US and Canada will blame Biden and Trudeau I understand that this is a global issue that is exacerbated by OPEC+ and the oil companies themselves putting profits, stock buybacks, etc ahead of the needs of common people.  How are people that are having to choose between gas and groceries supposed to pay the average cost of 50k for an EV?  And EVs alone won't solve the problem as we will need infrastructure and non fossil fuel power generating sources.  Take public transit? In our cities and rural areas, BBB better hurry up.

This is the good news. Question is, is it sustainable? More demand drives economies of scale. And even hybrids can make a difference. Still a drop in the bucket but there are things happening regarding renewables. Off shore wind farms, more sustainable buildings, solar farms and we're really close to fusion energy. In 10 years, it'll be scalable. Question is, can we and the planet hold on?

China maintained its vast dominance in the global electric vehicle market by selling a record 3.3 million cars in 2021, while the U.S. ended a two-year slump to see EV sales double, according to newly released data.

Worldwide EV sales doubled year over year in 2021 to 6.6 million, the International Energy Agency reported in its Global EV Outlook for 2022 on May 23. Some 630,000 plug-in battery and hybrid electric cars were sold in the U.S. in 2021, twice as many as the year before. In Europe, 2.3 million EVs were sold.

In all, there were 16.5 million electric cars on the road worldwide in 2021, three times more than in 2018, the agency reported. The IEA and many nations are looking to EVs to replace combustion engines to slow climate change. In the U.S, transportation is the largest source of carbon dioxide emissions, accounting for 33% in 2020.

Escalation: what needs to be said, Russia has Nukes and may be willing to use them, and their overstepping in Ukraine is a wet dream for the Hawks and Neo-Cons in DC. I think putin realizes that's a red line he can't cross. I think he was surprised by the US and West response and we're seeing, once again, the difference between the two political and economic systems in how poor his military really is. I read today that they're pressing 50 year old tanks into service. Time is on Ukraine's side, currently.

Moral:  We are in a society that is currently grappling with gun violence of which one side says that more guns and good guys with guns is the answer and the otherside says no guns is the answer, Yet when it comes to sending big guns overseas with little oversight as to where they will all end up in a country that has a history of corruption, both sides seem to be overwhelmingly on board with the fact that more "good guys" with guns is the answer.  The other side in the gun debate, the gun safety side, is not saying "no guns is the answer." We're saying reasonable and common sense gun safety regulations can make a difference. I read today that 10,000 guns a month are sold in New York State. Are New Yorker's that afraid? Crazy. And the US is not willy nilly providing arms to Ukraine. Brandon has denied requests for certain arms, in fear of provoking a response from putin. Prudent but time will tell. And if you don't think we have boots on the ground, you're fooling yourself. 

Finally I am burned out on my countries endless need to go to war, sell weapons and take sides in proxy conflicts.  How can we be surprised that we are a society growing more violently when that seems to be our main cultural export  I am also wary of media when it comes to reporting on wars and am not completely sure that we are being sold the whole truth, WMDs anyone.  All of the rosy reporting on Afghanistan over 18 years etc.  This is partly responsible for where we find ourselves today with 1/6. Not investigating the myth and selling of the Iraq war and whether crimes were committed in the process emboldened the actors in the POOTWH administration. My biggest criticism of Obama is for saying the nation needed to move on. Darth Cheney, Rummy and Wolfowitz should be in jail. 44 million missing emails anyone? War is profitable and as long as there are humans, there will be money made from war. Sad but true but its been going on since the beginning of humanity in some form or other.

As to why I am comparing this to Iraq and Afghanistan it is because those were two huge foreign policy blunders that did not lead to the world being a more stable and safer place, while also taking up most of my adult life, and there is every reason based on the last 3 decades of US War policy that this could end up just the same. The war in Iraq should have never happened and Afghanistan should have ended the day after Osama bin Laden was killed. Personally, I think anyone with a role in the federal government, in any branch, should have to divest from any defense contractor or supplier and have their stocks in blind trusts until 3 years after their service ends. Particularly or at least for POTUS, VPOTUS, all cabinet members and members of congress. Start there.

So that is why I would like to see a push for a diplomatic solution.  End this before it escalates.  I'm not sure what that entails?  Give the separatists their own sovereignty as it doesn't seem like they want to be a part of Ukraine nor does it seem as if Ukraine wants them around.  If neither side is willing to budge what red line needs to be crossed before another Nato country joins the fray?  Again assuming Ukraine drives russia back with it's head between it's legs, who pays for rebuilding Ukraine? Russia? not likely.  The IMF?  Would Ukraine have sovereignty if they made a deal with that behemoth?    Do we really believe this doesn't have the possibility of escalating into a world war or a nuclear war?  Can the case be made that Ukraine can win everything, with weapons support alone? I'd prefer a diplomatic solution as well but it has to be driven by Ukraine and they have to define the terms and decide whether its the right thing for them. If NATO is attacked, there'll be a response but I think this remains a smoldering type conflict until putin is out of the picture. Time will tell but its depressing as hell.

static111 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

static111 said:

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

Slow news on the Ukraine front.  I've been wondering what happens if we fund this to the last standing Ukrainian and what that would mean as far as being a completely destabilized Ukraine and what that means to Europe.  A bunch of displaced people and a bunch of men with military experience and training, some of whom are very right wing.  Could this support come back to bite us like it did with Afghanistan/Al Qaeda?  With the global economy being further shredded and the threat of major food shortages worldwide especially in the global south and poorer countries should we not be trying to push for a settlement and some brokered talks?   Russia gets Donbas and Crimea Ukraine becomes Swiss like?  How much of the idea that Putin won't stop at Ukraine is sabre rattling and Manufacturing Consent?  On the other side if Ukraine somehow manages to "win" and Putin falls how does a completely destabilized Russia help the world?  What does a Russia completely financially in debt and dominated by China look like?  In a country where we are currently wondering what to do about domestic gun violence and far right ideology, why are we so quick to say that more guns is the answer here?  I have always been anti war at least since I have been an adult and have had my own agency of thought.  21st century and the cold war is alive and well.  there has to be another way of going forward that isn't that the US military power structure dictates the global narrative.  Sure giving up part of Ukraine to a hostile force isn't ideal and would not be easy to accept, but what is the alternative?  Do we let this proxy war become the real thing?  WWI was started from something far stupider than this.  

Ukraine is not Afghanistan.  They are not jihadist.  So no, I don't think there's any chance that you have marauding bands of soldiers in filtering into Moldova or something.  

It's always been the most likely outcome that some eastern Oblasts fall into Russian control.  That doesn't mean Ukraine should just let it happen and not fight.  And if the West cuts off arms, the whole of Ukraine will fall which will lead to massive humanitarian crisis along with senseless death of all types of citizenry, not just soldiers in battle.  Russia has proven that they will commit war crimes many times in the past and in Ukraine.  

No offense, but the news narrative of the last week is typical Americanism.  Didn't win a war in a month or two?  Tide turns a bit or there are setback?  Time to pull the plug.  My interest is elsewhere.  

This was always going to be a hard slog.  

Was Afghanistan seen as a Jihadist country before the USSR and USA decided to have a proxy war there?

The only winners with the west supplying arms seem to be the weapons manufacturers.  

Like I said I have pretty much been anti war since being an adult, so war is never something that I am in favor of.  The idea that this is "typical americanism" as didn't win in a month or two is a joke.  Typical americanism is overfunding and overstaying any conflict to the absolute breaking point with the idea that we are serving american strategic interests and geo-political stability or even laughably the concept of good vs evil, which has got us nowhere. I'm unsure that any of our forays in my 40 year life span have done a lot for global stability, if anything it has usually caused the opposite.

  Why wouldn't typical Americans begin to question if this is going to turn into another 20 year money sink.  I will admit that at the beginning of this conflict I was thinking that here we are with a just cause for once, how much of that was influenced by print and social media I can't calculate.  I do know that as the situation has escalated I have asked myself what the difference is between Iraq, Afghanistan and Ukraine when it comes to US involvement...I'm not sure there is any.

The people bearing the brunt of the financial woes in america are the poor and working class.  Obviously Ukrainians have it much worse with war at their actual doors. Global food instability that will damage former US Soviet playgrounds like afghanistan will affect us to a much lower level, except for the rising costs of groceries and gas that the uneducated rabble care so much about.

Yes, I was talking about media moving on to other things, which is what is happening as we speak.  

1. Afghanistan is a radicalized country, fighting against the West and Christianity.  Whether the Soviet and US wars created that or accentuated it is a bigger argument.  But I can't see any scenario where Ukraine, which has been trying to westernize against the yoke of Russia, would suddenly radicalize against the west.

2. The cause is the same today as it was in February.  What is changing for you?  Is it gas prices, grain prices?  Is it suddenly that you think we can't afford it?  Affording it is a red herring.  Everything we do, we borrow.  

The difference between Iraq and Ukraine is completely different. 
A) Iraq was waged for two reasons: 1. Access to oil 2. Making the mid east safe for Israel. 
Ukraine is the front line against a quasi-Fascist state that has been slowly trying to expand its economic and military power through wars of aggression in Chechnya, Georgia and now Ukraine.  Putin must be checked. 
C) We invaded Iraq to overthrow the existing gov't and tried to fight a war in their own territory.  For Ukraine, we are supporting young liberal democracy that seeks to protect its own freedom and right to self determination.
D) Our troops aren't on the ground in Ukraine.  They were in Iraq. 

The difference between Iraq and Ukraine could not be any more stark.  I honestly don't know how you can compare the two.  The only commonality is that they both cost money, but I'm pretty sure if you add up the costs, Iraq will be just a touch higher.  

I've been thinking about this for a couple days since you posted the questions about what has changed, because I want to give a genuine answer. My chief concern is what this conflict is doing globally.  I'm not concerned of the $40 bn or so spent directly so far.  I am more concerned about if the western economy can handle this on top of the other crisis that we can't seem to manage currently.  $5 a gallon gas and the rapid increase in prices due to the increased cost of shipping, increased price of fertilizer, speculation of a worldwide grain shortage etc.  It does not appear that there is an end in sight for the ever increasing cost of living.  How long until this creates more discord in our country and other western countries, that is if it isn't already having that effect?  Sure part of the current problem is that the increasing profits especially for energy and shipping companies are much higher than what should they should be assuming that the only costs being passed along are based on the cost of a barrel of oil, but what does that mean for the majority of americans and western families making less than 6 figures a year?  The rapid rise in prices and inflation, though already escalating due to covid and "supply chain bottlenecks" has gotten out of control since the war and the sanctions started. This is the economic side of things I am worried about.  Not to mention that the worse these economic woes are the more chance the american facist right will sweep back into power BIGLY. If there is one thing that Western Democracies are good at, its resiliency and adaptability. There may be short term pain and it might suck for a spell but government and industry typically find their way out. Look at Europe or Japan after WWII. Completely devastated. And look at them today. As for shipping, that's what happens when the world allows for 10 major players to control the market. They're also raking in record profits so far outside the norm that its sickening. And I don't hear the public criticizing them. Misplaced at Brandon. I ordered two large pizza's, each with 3 toppings, and 18 wings with a side of fries. With tip, $93.00. They charged me $1.00 for ordering online. Guess what? I won't be ordering pizza and wings for a while. The fascists will be sweeping into power in 2022 and 2024. And its going to be ugly.

As far as what is happening in terms of the war.  Well millions have fled all over Europe and that is obviously not a stabilizing thing.  As I said in a previous post, what good does prolonging a war that Russia may ultimately win or end in a stalemate really do for anyone including Ukrainians?  Lets say Ukraine wins, pushes Russia back and reclaims Crimea.  What incentive does Vladimir and the Russian state have to continue playing ball with the international order?  None.  Which will inevitably lead to stronger ties with China, who are also supposedly enemies of the american people.  If Russia fights to the last Ukranian and demolishes Ukraine, what does a completely destabilized Ukraine with a fringe of quasi Neo-Nazi sympathizers that now have training from Nato and US special forces mean?  Blow back? Nah that has never happened to us before.   What about all of the American White Supremacists that are Volunteering for Ukraine?  Neither of these things is russian Propaganda, the current DHS is concerned about homegrown supremacists travelling to Ukraine and getting battlefield experience, and recently within the last few years a stipulation of us aiding Ukraine was that weapons and training would not go to known Ukrainian Neo Nazi groups like C14(stands for: we must secure the existence of our people and a future for White children) and Azov.  Why else would members of the house of representatives have wrote a letter to the department of state with concern to anti semitism in Poland and Ukraine.  Now obviously you are thinking that I have bought the Russian propaganda, well no I have absolutely no illusion that the Ukraine is full of a majortiy of Nazis. Heck I understand a lot of the looking the other way as some of these groups provided the necessary force for Maidan revolution. I am worried that depending how things go the minority of neo nazi nationalists could become a significant regional or global problem, and any entrance into nato should probably require a purging of these influences.  And of course I have to add the disclaimer, the presence of small groups of  neo-nazis does not justify invading a sovereign country, if it did someone would have had grounds to war with us long ago. Legitimate concern. But from what I've read of the Americans fighting in Ukraine, its not what they expected and its a rude wake up call. Nothing like playing Call of Duty and even military vets who didn't see action in the US military are having a tough time of it due to the nature of the units, lack of communication, control structure. I think you'll see less of this rather than more as time goes on.

 
Environmental concerns:  With the rising price of everything and the rising price of fuel this has probably shot any chance at a sustainable future.  Though it was gonna be a hard sell to begin with I am thinking the push for renewables and EVs is going to be crushed.  The high price of gas currently has public opinion turning towards the drill baby drill line all the world over.  Public opinion of kitchen table politics is currently bring the prices down. While a lot of people in the US and Canada will blame Biden and Trudeau I understand that this is a global issue that is exacerbated by OPEC+ and the oil companies themselves putting profits, stock buybacks, etc ahead of the needs of common people.  How are people that are having to choose between gas and groceries supposed to pay the average cost of 50k for an EV?  And EVs alone won't solve the problem as we will need infrastructure and non fossil fuel power generating sources.  Take public transit? In our cities and rural areas, BBB better hurry up.

This is the good news. Question is, is it sustainable? More demand drives economies of scale. And even hybrids can make a difference. Still a drop in the bucket but there are things happening regarding renewables. Off shore wind farms, more sustainable buildings, solar farms and we're really close to fusion energy. In 10 years, it'll be scalable. Question is, can we and the planet hold on?

China maintained its vast dominance in the global electric vehicle market by selling a record 3.3 million cars in 2021, while the U.S. ended a two-year slump to see EV sales double, according to newly released data.

Worldwide EV sales doubled year over year in 2021 to 6.6 million, the International Energy Agency reported in its Global EV Outlook for 2022 on May 23. Some 630,000 plug-in battery and hybrid electric cars were sold in the U.S. in 2021, twice as many as the year before. In Europe, 2.3 million EVs were sold.

In all, there were 16.5 million electric cars on the road worldwide in 2021, three times more than in 2018, the agency reported. The IEA and many nations are looking to EVs to replace combustion engines to slow climate change. In the U.S, transportation is the largest source of carbon dioxide emissions, accounting for 33% in 2020.

Escalation: what needs to be said, Russia has Nukes and may be willing to use them, and their overstepping in Ukraine is a wet dream for the Hawks and Neo-Cons in DC. I think putin realizes that's a red line he can't cross. I think he was surprised by the US and West response and we're seeing, once again, the difference between the two political and economic systems in how poor his military really is. I read today that they're pressing 50 year old tanks into service. Time is on Ukraine's side, currently.

Moral:  We are in a society that is currently grappling with gun violence of which one side says that more guns and good guys with guns is the answer and the otherside says no guns is the answer, Yet when it comes to sending big guns overseas with little oversight as to where they will all end up in a country that has a history of corruption, both sides seem to be overwhelmingly on board with the fact that more "good guys" with guns is the answer.  The other side in the gun debate, the gun safety side, is not saying "no guns is the answer." We're saying reasonable and common sense gun safety regulations can make a difference. I read today that 10,000 guns a month are sold in New York State. Are New Yorker's that afraid? Crazy. And the US is not willy nilly providing arms to Ukraine. Brandon has denied requests for certain arms, in fear of provoking a response from putin. Prudent but time will tell. And if you don't think we have boots on the ground, you're fooling yourself. 

Finally I am burned out on my countries endless need to go to war, sell weapons and take sides in proxy conflicts.  How can we be surprised that we are a society growing more violently when that seems to be our main cultural export  I am also wary of media when it comes to reporting on wars and am not completely sure that we are being sold the whole truth, WMDs anyone.  All of the rosy reporting on Afghanistan over 18 years etc.  This is partly responsible for where we find ourselves today with 1/6. Not investigating the myth and selling of the Iraq war and whether crimes were committed in the process emboldened the actors in the POOTWH administration. My biggest criticism of Obama is for saying the nation needed to move on. Darth Cheney, Rummy and Wolfowitz should be in jail. 44 million missing emails anyone? War is profitable and as long as there are humans, there will be money made from war. Sad but true but its been going on since the beginning of humanity in some form or other.

As to why I am comparing this to Iraq and Afghanistan it is because those were two huge foreign policy blunders that did not lead to the world being a more stable and safer place, while also taking up most of my adult life, and there is every reason based on the last 3 decades of US War policy that this could end up just the same. The war in Iraq should have never happened and Afghanistan should have ended the day after Osama bin Laden was killed. Personally, I think anyone with a role in the federal government, in any branch, should have to divest from any defense contractor or supplier and have their stocks in blind trusts until 3 years after their service ends. Particularly or at least for POTUS, VPOTUS, all cabinet members and members of congress. Start there.

So that is why I would like to see a push for a diplomatic solution.  End this before it escalates.  I'm not sure what that entails?  Give the separatists their own sovereignty as it doesn't seem like they want to be a part of Ukraine nor does it seem as if Ukraine wants them around.  If neither side is willing to budge what red line needs to be crossed before another Nato country joins the fray?  Again assuming Ukraine drives russia back with it's head between it's legs, who pays for rebuilding Ukraine? Russia? not likely.  The IMF?  Would Ukraine have sovereignty if they made a deal with that behemoth?    Do we really believe this doesn't have the possibility of escalating into a world war or a nuclear war?  Can the case be made that Ukraine can win everything, with weapons support alone? I'd prefer a diplomatic solution as well but it has to be driven by Ukraine and they have to define the terms and decide whether its the right thing for them. If NATO is attacked, there'll be a response but I think this remains a smoldering type conflict until putin is out of the picture. Time will tell but its depressing as hell.

See my responses in bold.

Wow @Halifax2TheMax Thanks for all of you thoughts!  A lot for my pea brain to process.

cincybearcat said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Regarding a portion of my comments in one of the above posts related to corporate profits driving inflation. I can only imagine the howling protests from repubs if Brandon began anti-trust investigations. And of course inflation is all Brandon’s fault.

https://www.salon.com/2021/12/01/whats-really-driving-inflation-corporate-greed_partner/

That article has a lot of horse shit in it.

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

cincybearcat said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Regarding a portion of my comments in one of the above posts related to corporate profits driving inflation. I can only imagine the howling protests from repubs if Brandon began anti-trust investigations. And of course inflation is all Brandon’s fault.

https://www.salon.com/2021/12/01/whats-really-driving-inflation-corporate-greed_partner/

That article has a lot of horse shit in it.

Care to point it out? Frankly, I’ll take Robert Reich’s street cred on the matter of economics over yours and nick’s.

Corporations, as a whole,  have not changed their behavior or strategies in the last year.  So saying that they are causing inflation makes no sense.  They didn't cause inflation in the last 30 years doing the same things. 

If he wants to argue that they could help marginally reduce inflation by cutting prices, that's a different argument.  But that would be saying corporations should act collectively to improve the economy rather than acting to the direct benefit of their stakeholders.  Now THAT would be the different behavior. 

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

cincybearcat said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Regarding a portion of my comments in one of the above posts related to corporate profits driving inflation. I can only imagine the howling protests from repubs if Brandon began anti-trust investigations. And of course inflation is all Brandon’s fault.

https://www.salon.com/2021/12/01/whats-really-driving-inflation-corporate-greed_partner/

That article has a lot of horse shit in it.

Care to point it out? Frankly, I’ll take Robert Reich’s street cred on the matter of economics over yours and nick’s.

Corporations, as a whole,  have not changed their behavior or strategies in the last year.  So saying that they are causing inflation makes no sense.  They didn't cause inflation in the last 30 years doing the same things. 

If he wants to argue that they could help marginally reduce inflation by cutting prices, that's a different argument.  But that would be saying corporations should act collectively to improve the economy rather than acting to the direct benefit of their stakeholders.  Now THAT would be the different behavior. 

Reich isn’t arguing that corporations are the sole cause of inflation but the largest culprit in a group of many culprits. We didn’t get where we are in a year and neither did corporations. It’s the cumulative effect of the past 30 years of corporate mergers and acquisitions, fed policy as the author in mickey’s linked article states and less competition in major sectors of the economy, namely shipping, consumer products and energy. All of which are recording record profits. I guess you think less competition is good for the consumer?

The cause of inflation is fundamentally the same thing that it was in the 1970's..  lack of supply of oil.  Energy drives everything.  The more expensive energy is, the more expensive every single good and service is.  I don't think it's that complicated.  And energy won't abate until oil is back in the 80's or lower consistently.  And that won't happen until Russia is back in the market or OPEC truly increases its supply for a long time.