Ukraine

brianlux

How strange it is that we get these MAGA trolls on here.  One leaves and other pops up.  It's like tag-team trolling.  Must pay OK- a lot of people seem to sign on anyway.  So weird. 

cincybearcat

gimmesometruth27 said:

man if i ever get owned that bad on amt i will delete my account.

And yet you are still here

brianlux

cincybearcat said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

man if i ever get owned that bad on amt i will delete my account.

And yet you are still here

You've both been here too long to leave.  Leaving is not allowed.  I won't have it! 

Halifax2TheMax

What was that about others doing something, again? But fuck ‘em, right?

BONN — World financial leaders in the Group of Seven nations agreed to provide Ukraine with about $20 billion in short-term economic support to stabilize its economy amid the ongoing Russian invasion.

Since April, Ukrainian leaders have beseeched American and European leaders to help cover their government’s growing budget deficit, estimated to be approximately $5 billion per month. Russia’s invasion has caused more than $90 billion in infrastructure damage, according to estimates by the Kyiv School of Economics, and Ukraine is beginning to struggle to pay government salaries and pensions amid new humanitarian needs arising from massive internal displacement.

Roughly $9.5 billion of the $20 billion agreed to by the G-7 leaders at the conference in western Germany will come from the U.S. aid package approved by Congress earlier this week. Treasury Secretary Janet L. Yellen told reporters that the allies were united in ensuring Ukraine had requisite financing to head off further disaster. The European Commission pledged to provide an additional 9 billion euros.

“All of us pledged to do what’s necessary,” she said. “We want to pull together with the resources they need to get through this.”

Ukrainian officials told The Washington Post early Friday that they were pleased by the G-7 actions, but that more long-term assistance may be necessary.

gimmesometruth27

cincybearcat said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

man if i ever get owned that bad on amt i will delete my account.

And yet you are still here

snap!!! lol

dankind

Mariupol has fallen (according to Russia).

hedonist

dankind said:

Mariupol has fallen (according to Russia).

Can she get up?  (groan)

Poncier

mrussel1

dankind said:

Mariupol has fallen (according to Russia).

That battle was over earlier this week 

mickeyrat

mrussel1 said:

dankind said:

Mariupol has fallen (according to Russia).

That battle was over earlier this week 

were still some uk fighters in the complex up to a couple days ago......

static111

it is in fact all connected...

Have we brought up that Cruz and Co sent a letter to Biden demanding lifting sanctions on russian ammunition manufacturing because it was seen as a slippery slope to gun control by the NRA?

https://www.salon.com/2022/05/27/this-is-an-attempt-at-control-ted-cruz-fought-russian-sanctions-over-ammo-shortage-concerns_partner/

Halifax2TheMax

static111 said:

it is in fact all connected...

Have we brought up that Cruz and Co sent a letter to Biden demanding lifting sanctions on russian ammunition manufacturing because it was seen as a slippery slope to gun control by the NRA?

https://www.salon.com/2022/05/27/this-is-an-attempt-at-control-ted-cruz-fought-russian-sanctions-over-ammo-shortage-concerns_partner/

Just read the Team M report and what Manaforte was working on and manipulating the POOTWH campaign to do. Sprinkle in some Maria Buttina and NRA laundered campaign contributions and voila! You get and will continue to get the carnage of what happened in Tejas the other day. Ted Crud is a traitor. 

mrussel1

Halifax2TheMax said:

static111 said:

it is in fact all connected...

Have we brought up that Cruz and Co sent a letter to Biden demanding lifting sanctions on russian ammunition manufacturing because it was seen as a slippery slope to gun control by the NRA?

https://www.salon.com/2022/05/27/this-is-an-attempt-at-control-ted-cruz-fought-russian-sanctions-over-ammo-shortage-concerns_partner/

Just read the Team M report and what Manaforte was working on and manipulating the POOTWH campaign to do. Sprinkle in some Maria Buttina and NRA laundered campaign contributions and voila! You get and will continue to get the carnage of what happened in Tejas the other day. Ted Crud is a traitor. 

He's a patsy. 

Halifax2TheMax

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

static111 said:

it is in fact all connected...

Have we brought up that Cruz and Co sent a letter to Biden demanding lifting sanctions on russian ammunition manufacturing because it was seen as a slippery slope to gun control by the NRA?

https://www.salon.com/2022/05/27/this-is-an-attempt-at-control-ted-cruz-fought-russian-sanctions-over-ammo-shortage-concerns_partner/

Just read the Team M report and what Manaforte was working on and manipulating the POOTWH campaign to do. Sprinkle in some Maria Buttina and NRA laundered campaign contributions and voila! You get and will continue to get the carnage of what happened in Tejas the other day. Ted Crud is a traitor. 

He's a patsy. 

I bet there’s a tape of him too. I’ll let your imagination run with what kind of tape it might be. Or would that be your fantasy running with it?

dankind

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

static111 said:

it is in fact all connected...

Have we brought up that Cruz and Co sent a letter to Biden demanding lifting sanctions on russian ammunition manufacturing because it was seen as a slippery slope to gun control by the NRA?

https://www.salon.com/2022/05/27/this-is-an-attempt-at-control-ted-cruz-fought-russian-sanctions-over-ammo-shortage-concerns_partner/

Just read the Team M report and what Manaforte was working on and manipulating the POOTWH campaign to do. Sprinkle in some Maria Buttina and NRA laundered campaign contributions and voila! You get and will continue to get the carnage of what happened in Tejas the other day. Ted Crud is a traitor. 

He's a patsy. 

I bet there’s a tape of him too. I’ll let your imagination run with what kind of tape it might be. Or would that be your fantasy running with it?

Hey now.

mrussel1

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

static111 said:

it is in fact all connected...

Have we brought up that Cruz and Co sent a letter to Biden demanding lifting sanctions on russian ammunition manufacturing because it was seen as a slippery slope to gun control by the NRA?

https://www.salon.com/2022/05/27/this-is-an-attempt-at-control-ted-cruz-fought-russian-sanctions-over-ammo-shortage-concerns_partner/

Just read the Team M report and what Manaforte was working on and manipulating the POOTWH campaign to do. Sprinkle in some Maria Buttina and NRA laundered campaign contributions and voila! You get and will continue to get the carnage of what happened in Tejas the other day. Ted Crud is a traitor. 

He's a patsy. 

I bet there’s a tape of him too. I’ll let your imagination run with what kind of tape it might be. Or would that be your fantasy running with it?

Listen, I don't even give him that much credit.  If there was a tape (like there probably is for Lindsay), then I would understand his spinelessness.  But he's too much of a coward to even engage in lewd behavior, is my guess.  I think his weakness is inherent to him.  

Halifax2TheMax

The reason I bring this up is that putin on the ritz is former KGB and one of their tactics has always been to get kompromat on their targets for a desired outcome. These repub pukes would travel to Moscow or other former Soviet Bloc countries regularly, even spending the 4th of July one year, in an attempt to curry favor for American business and investment, seeing the former Soviet satellites as great business opportunities (sound familiar?), and because the Wall had come down and they were opening up, democratic ideals. In their greed and naivete, they threw caution to the wind and partied like it was 1999. I know people who have traveled to Russia for government business and they were always told, don't find yourself alone in any setting, don't answer the knock on your hotel room door in the middle of the night and don't connect your electronic devices to anything. In fact, upon return, their phones and laptops were remanded and held in quarantine for a scrubbing process. Also, they didn't have to travel to Moscow or former Soviet Block countries, all they had to do was be in a meeting or stay at a hotel anywhere where putin on the ritz's oligarchs wanted to meet them.

These elected repubs and members of various repub affiliated organizations probably didn't practice these protocols because they weren't part of an official government delegation or sponsored by a government office/department. As such, they were vulnerable. What may be on tape could be so fundamentally embarrassing, never mind treasonous, that these "family values" repubs would be ruined. They'd lose everything. Their family, their friends, their careers and quite possibly their freedom.

How else do you attribute all the pro-Moscow moves from 2014 on (Miss Universe was in 2013 and these schmucks were doing business and traveling from around 2010 on), from removing the anti-Russia language from the repub party platform to Moscow Mitch's aluminum smelter deal in Kentucky, to the NRA laundering campaign cash on behalf of Maria Buttina, to the withholding of $400 million in aid to Ukraine to the ready acceptance of putin on the ritz's interference in our elections and the repubs' resistance to the 1/6 committee and the bowing to POOTWH to this day? Normal political discourse/disagreement? POOTWH is so great, the second coming of Ronny Raygun? Why such a pivot to a regime as freedom-less as Russia?

These guys are compromised.

static111

Slow news on the Ukraine front.  I've been wondering what happens if we fund this to the last standing Ukrainian and what that would mean as far as being a completely destabilized Ukraine and what that means to Europe.  A bunch of displaced people and a bunch of men with military experience and training, some of whom are very right wing.  Could this support come back to bite us like it did with Afghanistan/Al Qaeda?  With the global economy being further shredded and the threat of major food shortages worldwide especially in the global south and poorer countries should we not be trying to push for a settlement and some brokered talks?   Russia gets Donbas and Crimea Ukraine becomes Swiss like?  How much of the idea that Putin won't stop at Ukraine is sabre rattling and Manufacturing Consent?  On the other side if Ukraine somehow manages to "win" and Putin falls how does a completely destabilized Russia help the world?  What does a Russia completely financially in debt and dominated by China look like?  In a country where we are currently wondering what to do about domestic gun violence and far right ideology, why are we so quick to say that more guns is the answer here?  I have always been anti war at least since I have been an adult and have had my own agency of thought.  21st century and the cold war is alive and well.  there has to be another way of going forward that isn't that the US military power structure dictates the global narrative.  Sure giving up part of Ukraine to a hostile force isn't ideal and would not be easy to accept, but what is the alternative?  Do we let this proxy war become the real thing?  WWI was started from something far stupider than this.  

mrussel1

static111 said:

Slow news on the Ukraine front.  I've been wondering what happens if we fund this to the last standing Ukrainian and what that would mean as far as being a completely destabilized Ukraine and what that means to Europe.  A bunch of displaced people and a bunch of men with military experience and training, some of whom are very right wing.  Could this support come back to bite us like it did with Afghanistan/Al Qaeda?  With the global economy being further shredded and the threat of major food shortages worldwide especially in the global south and poorer countries should we not be trying to push for a settlement and some brokered talks?   Russia gets Donbas and Crimea Ukraine becomes Swiss like?  How much of the idea that Putin won't stop at Ukraine is sabre rattling and Manufacturing Consent?  On the other side if Ukraine somehow manages to "win" and Putin falls how does a completely destabilized Russia help the world?  What does a Russia completely financially in debt and dominated by China look like?  In a country where we are currently wondering what to do about domestic gun violence and far right ideology, why are we so quick to say that more guns is the answer here?  I have always been anti war at least since I have been an adult and have had my own agency of thought.  21st century and the cold war is alive and well.  there has to be another way of going forward that isn't that the US military power structure dictates the global narrative.  Sure giving up part of Ukraine to a hostile force isn't ideal and would not be easy to accept, but what is the alternative?  Do we let this proxy war become the real thing?  WWI was started from something far stupider than this.  

Ukraine is not Afghanistan.  They are not jihadist.  So no, I don't think there's any chance that you have marauding bands of soldiers in filtering into Moldova or something.  

It's always been the most likely outcome that some eastern Oblasts fall into Russian control.  That doesn't mean Ukraine should just let it happen and not fight.  And if the West cuts off arms, the whole of Ukraine will fall which will lead to massive humanitarian crisis along with senseless death of all types of citizenry, not just soldiers in battle.  Russia has proven that they will commit war crimes many times in the past and in Ukraine.  

No offense, but the news narrative of the last week is typical Americanism.  Didn't win a war in a month or two?  Tide turns a bit or there are setback?  Time to pull the plug.  My interest is elsewhere.  

This was always going to be a hard slog.  

static111

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

Slow news on the Ukraine front.  I've been wondering what happens if we fund this to the last standing Ukrainian and what that would mean as far as being a completely destabilized Ukraine and what that means to Europe.  A bunch of displaced people and a bunch of men with military experience and training, some of whom are very right wing.  Could this support come back to bite us like it did with Afghanistan/Al Qaeda?  With the global economy being further shredded and the threat of major food shortages worldwide especially in the global south and poorer countries should we not be trying to push for a settlement and some brokered talks?   Russia gets Donbas and Crimea Ukraine becomes Swiss like?  How much of the idea that Putin won't stop at Ukraine is sabre rattling and Manufacturing Consent?  On the other side if Ukraine somehow manages to "win" and Putin falls how does a completely destabilized Russia help the world?  What does a Russia completely financially in debt and dominated by China look like?  In a country where we are currently wondering what to do about domestic gun violence and far right ideology, why are we so quick to say that more guns is the answer here?  I have always been anti war at least since I have been an adult and have had my own agency of thought.  21st century and the cold war is alive and well.  there has to be another way of going forward that isn't that the US military power structure dictates the global narrative.  Sure giving up part of Ukraine to a hostile force isn't ideal and would not be easy to accept, but what is the alternative?  Do we let this proxy war become the real thing?  WWI was started from something far stupider than this.  

Ukraine is not Afghanistan.  They are not jihadist.  So no, I don't think there's any chance that you have marauding bands of soldiers in filtering into Moldova or something.  

It's always been the most likely outcome that some eastern Oblasts fall into Russian control.  That doesn't mean Ukraine should just let it happen and not fight.  And if the West cuts off arms, the whole of Ukraine will fall which will lead to massive humanitarian crisis along with senseless death of all types of citizenry, not just soldiers in battle.  Russia has proven that they will commit war crimes many times in the past and in Ukraine.  

No offense, but the news narrative of the last week is typical Americanism.  Didn't win a war in a month or two?  Tide turns a bit or there are setback?  Time to pull the plug.  My interest is elsewhere.  

This was always going to be a hard slog.  

Was Afghanistan seen as a Jihadist country before the USSR and USA decided to have a proxy war there?

The only winners with the west supplying arms seem to be the weapons manufacturers.  

Like I said I have pretty much been anti war since being an adult, so war is never something that I am in favor of.  The idea that this is "typical americanism" as didn't win in a month or two is a joke.  Typical americanism is overfunding and overstaying any conflict to the absolute breaking point with the idea that we are serving american strategic interests and geo-political stability or even laughably the concept of good vs evil, which has got us nowhere. I'm unsure that any of our forays in my 40 year life span have done a lot for global stability, if anything it has usually caused the opposite.

  Why wouldn't typical Americans begin to question if this is going to turn into another 20 year money sink.  I will admit that at the beginning of this conflict I was thinking that here we are with a just cause for once, how much of that was influenced by print and social media I can't calculate.  I do know that as the situation has escalated I have asked myself what the difference is between Iraq, Afghanistan and Ukraine when it comes to US involvement...I'm not sure there is any.

The people bearing the brunt of the financial woes in america are the poor and working class.  Obviously Ukrainians have it much worse with war at their actual doors. Global food instability that will damage former US Soviet playgrounds like afghanistan will affect us to a much lower level, except for the rising costs of groceries and gas that the uneducated rabble care so much about.