“PJ Premium” on Ticketmaster?

Get_Right · April 2022

For the lonest time PJ did not allow resale of 10C tickets AT ALL. Then they allowed face value sales. They have always insisted that if you are buying 10c tix they are for you and your guest. There have been a few exceptions but restrictions on transfers is not surprising, that has been a common theme for decades.

Market price is what the consumer will pay for a good or service. With a monopoly, the seller controls the market price. This is here to stay until there is a regulatory change. Make no mistake, the band is making plenty of money from these gigs to cover costs and carbon offsets. Add the merch sales and they are making big, big money. The pricing scheme is about TM maximizing revenue for each ticket it sells and minimizing returns for any resellers. Nothing else. Put whatever name you want on it. What sucks is that the bands and us fans have no alternative and that is why we are getting squeezed.

Poncier · April 2022

Get_Right said:

For the lonest time PJ did not allow resale of 10C tickets AT ALL. Then they allowed face value sales. They have always insisted that if you are buying 10c tix they are for you and your guest. There have been a few exceptions but restrictions on transfers is not surprising, that has been a common theme for decades.

Market price is what the consumer will pay for a good or service. With a monopoly, the seller controls the market price. This is here to stay until there is a regulatory change. Make no mistake, the band is making plenty of money from these gigs to cover costs and carbon offsets. Add the merch sales and they are making big, big money. The pricing scheme is about TM maximizing revenue for each ticket it sells and minimizing returns for any resellers. Nothing else. Put whatever name you want on it. What sucks is that the bands and us fans have no alternative and that is why we are getting squeezed.

The band has an alternative, they can just say no to the practice. It's their choice.
Platinum tickets have existed for some time, Pearl Jam has always said no until 2022.

iOnlyownMymind · April 2022

I thought ticket sales were way down for pretty much all touring acts these days. Seems like these jacked up prices would only discourage more from attending. Seems like it's already killed the initial onsale excitement. As others have stated though, I guess the goal is no longer to sell out shows but to make as much money as possible, so maybe there will be a lot of heavily discounted tickets near or on show days. Wonder if there will be ticket giveaways close to show day at some of the California shows like for the EV LA show.

Lerxst1992 · April 2022

JimmyV said:o

show previous quotes

Lerxst1992 said:

Poncier said:

mpedone said:

, it's looking dicey for some of these shows selling out.

They simply oversaturated the California market and ignored some of their strongest markets.
Perplexing choice to add Fresno and Sacto to the original dates.

They're not the least bit curious how big of an msg residence they could pull off. They'd rather play for smaller markets. Fans should be giving them credit for that, not complaining that a small % of tickets are selling for market value.

You think TM's algorithm would be kicking out a $4,500 ticket price if there were multiple shows at MSG and more spread across the northeast? They've created artificial scarcity by scheduling so few shows. I'm not sure how much credit I'm supposed to give them for that.

You know NY has never had ticket availability over the years, especially for unconnected part time fans like me, lol. Have they ever played seven arena shows here within a five hour drive? Maybe.

And Bostons just as tough, four stadium shows 2016 to 2018 and stub hub was north of $350 in most cases, every seat gone in seconds. And Philly just sold 27,000 tickets in less time than it takes to sneeze.

Not sure how much evidence is needed to demonstrate where the product sells best for the biggest cost. But yet they get attacked for a small % selling at FMV as PJ premium and they’re playing a lot of smaller market shows instead of the big seller markets. Also selling front of house tickets for $133, which very few big rock acts do. It’s tough to rationalize the attacks that they’re a money grab act

JimmyV · April 2022

Lerxst1992 said:

show previous quotes

JimmyV said:o

Lerxst1992 said:

Poncier said:

mpedone said:

, it's looking dicey for some of these shows selling out.

They simply oversaturated the California market and ignored some of their strongest markets.
Perplexing choice to add Fresno and Sacto to the original dates.

They're not the least bit curious how big of an msg residence they could pull off. They'd rather play for smaller markets. Fans should be giving them credit for that, not complaining that a small % of tickets are selling for market value.

You think TM's algorithm would be kicking out a $4,500 ticket price if there were multiple shows at MSG and more spread across the northeast? They've created artificial scarcity by scheduling so few shows. I'm not sure how much credit I'm supposed to give them for that.

You know NY has never had ticket availability over the years, especially for unconnected part time fans like me, lol. Have they ever played seven arena shows here within a five hour drive? Maybe.

And Bostons just as tough, four stadium shows 2016 to 2018 and stub hub was north of $350 in most cases, every seat gone in seconds. And Philly just sold 27,000 tickets in less time than it takes to sneeze.

Not sure how much evidence is needed to demonstrate where the product sells best for the biggest cost. But yet they get attacked for a small % selling at FMV as PJ premium and they’re playing a lot of smaller market shows instead of the big seller markets. Also selling front of house tickets for $133, which very few big rock acts do. It’s tough to rationalize the attacks that they’re a money grab act

Lots of real estate between giving them credit for what they have done here and accusing them of being a money grab act.

Lerxst1992 · April 2022

I’ll agree the best complaint is they don’t allow free trade on F2F for the Platinum seats for EV dates, by allowing TM to undercut F2F by lowering Platinum prices and preventing fans from being able to do the same. I have serious questions whether that’s legal. It’s definitely not ethical. Hopefully that’s fixed for the PJ shows

Someone in their management should take a closer look at that. But selling some PJ Premium tickets, unfortunately that’s legitimate and reasonable considering how hard the touring industry was hit

JimmyV · April 2022

The $4,500 tickets are gone. Did someone buy them or did they get taken down? Unclear.

Get_Right · April 2022

Poncier said:

show previous quotes

Get_Right said:

For the lonest time PJ did not allow resale of 10C tickets AT ALL. Then they allowed face value sales. They have always insisted that if you are buying 10c tix they are for you and your guest. There have been a few exceptions but restrictions on transfers is not surprising, that has been a common theme for decades.

Market price is what the consumer will pay for a good or service. With a monopoly, the seller controls the market price. This is here to stay until there is a regulatory change. Make no mistake, the band is making plenty of money from these gigs to cover costs and carbon offsets. Add the merch sales and they are making big, big money. The pricing scheme is about TM maximizing revenue for each ticket it sells and minimizing returns for any resellers. Nothing else. Put whatever name you want on it. What sucks is that the bands and us fans have no alternative and that is why we are getting squeezed.

The band has an alternative, they can just say no to the practice. It's their choice.
Platinum tickets have existed for some time, Pearl Jam has always said no until 2022.

Not if they want to play MSG, they really do not have a choice. It is relatively new (beta tested in 2017, rolled out in 2018 not 100% sure on that). Previously, instead of TM platinum ticket pricing, they were sold at face value and sold off stub hub, seat geek and ebay by every tom dick and harry that could get their hands on tickets. People and businesses made millions off TM tickets and the band's performances. Platinum pricing will greatly reduce the number of resales and TM will capture that revenue and share it with the band.

smile6680 · April 2022

Poncier said:

show previous quotes

Get_Right said:

For the lonest time PJ did not allow resale of 10C tickets AT ALL. Then they allowed face value sales. They have always insisted that if you are buying 10c tix they are for you and your guest. There have been a few exceptions but restrictions on transfers is not surprising, that has been a common theme for decades.

Market price is what the consumer will pay for a good or service. With a monopoly, the seller controls the market price. This is here to stay until there is a regulatory change. Make no mistake, the band is making plenty of money from these gigs to cover costs and carbon offsets. Add the merch sales and they are making big, big money. The pricing scheme is about TM maximizing revenue for each ticket it sells and minimizing returns for any resellers. Nothing else. Put whatever name you want on it. What sucks is that the bands and us fans have no alternative and that is why we are getting squeezed.

The band has an alternative, they can just say no to the practice. It's their choice.
Platinum tickets have existed for some time, Pearl Jam has always said no until 2022.

Honestly. I think pearl jam/ten club have just become lazy or truly don't care anymore. It's okay if that is true. Just be honest and communicate with the fans.

JimmyV · April 2022

They are a business and the goal of all businesses is to make money. They could make more money by playing more shows. Hopefully that happens.

mattcoz · April 2022

smile6680 said:

show previous quotes

Poncier said:

Get_Right said:

For the lonest time PJ did not allow resale of 10C tickets AT ALL. Then they allowed face value sales. They have always insisted that if you are buying 10c tix they are for you and your guest. There have been a few exceptions but restrictions on transfers is not surprising, that has been a common theme for decades.

Market price is what the consumer will pay for a good or service. With a monopoly, the seller controls the market price. This is here to stay until there is a regulatory change. Make no mistake, the band is making plenty of money from these gigs to cover costs and carbon offsets. Add the merch sales and they are making big, big money. The pricing scheme is about TM maximizing revenue for each ticket it sells and minimizing returns for any resellers. Nothing else. Put whatever name you want on it. What sucks is that the bands and us fans have no alternative and that is why we are getting squeezed.

The band has an alternative, they can just say no to the practice. It's their choice.
Platinum tickets have existed for some time, Pearl Jam has always said no until 2022.

Honestly. I think pearl jam/ten club have just become lazy or truly don't care anymore. It's okay if that is true. Just be honest and communicate with the fans.

I think it's more likely that Ticketmaster (and Live Nation) is being more aggressive in requiring platinum tickets in the post-pandemic world.

Vedd Hedd · April 2022

cmalisze said:

show previous quotes

Vedd Hedd said:

cmalisze said:

Vedd Hedd said:

cmalisze said:

Vedd Hedd said:

cmalisze said:

brarble said:

Poncier said:

JR86440 said:

People who complain about premium have never tried to run a business. There are sooooo many costs that go into running a business that people don’t see. It’s not as simple as multiplying 20k seats by $100 and dividing by 6 band members… counting Boom of course! Benefits for employees, liability insurance, salaries, rent, taxes, travel, crew, etc. Plus they need to Maher a profit. It’s not a non profit organization. $100 for 95% of the crowd for a band of PJ’s caliber is dirt cheap in my mind. And they aren’t the chili peppers who play 18 songs. Either need to accept premium or accept $150 tickets. Add in the fact that they have families to support I feel what they are doing is more than reasonable

Yet they have managed to run their business without doing PJ Premium for 30 years until now. Just moderately increasing ticket prices at a fair and reasonable rate as time has gone on. Are you saying that the business model they used for 3 decades was faulty?
My hunch is that given inflation, the "moderately increasing ticket prices at a fair and reasonable rate" method you describe would put tickets at around $150-$200 range (vs the $108 they're charging). Since so many ppl probably got refunds in 2020 and are now attempting to buy again, I'm guessing that PJ wanted to keep prices looking like they did in 2020 for the vast majority (and defray the difference with a few Premium seats) vs doubling the price for everyone.

And while I do love the old model... even this current model (mostly low cost tickets + a smattering of premium) is honestly not that bad compared to most other artists. If we're ranking all bands/artists on a spectrum of "fair pricing policies", even the "PJ Premium" method is better and more fair than 99% of the other bands out there. Honestly can't think of a single band or artist that has kept prices this low.

Most of these arenas seat around 17,000 ppl. I'm seeing about 50-100 Premium seats per show. I hate dynamic pricing as much as the next guy, but it's wild to me that ppl are getting this angry about the 0.5% of overpriced tickets while not appreciating that the other 99.5% are by far the lowest most reasonable you will find in any band/artist of Pearl Jam's level.

It isn't about the 0.5% of overpriced tickets......it is about a persona created over nearly 30 years and then obliterated in one business transaction in 2022. That is the point. The hypocrisy rings loud as can be.

I dont quite get your point. You are saying they should lose money on the tour based on some persona?
Or are you saying charge EVERYONE more, so that there are no premium seats?

Define "losing money." Aside from their actual music their persona is likely why many fell in love with them, I would imagine. I am saying don't criticize scalpers/scalping and then condone it only when it benefits you. I would be all for consistent tiered pricing. GA $$$ lower level $$ upper level $. If the band/TM has a number to reach there are many ways to obtain it. The "elite" mentality of PJ Premium is NOT the mentality the band exhibited during the years of establishing their persona....you know when Stone and Jeff went to Congress...

Pearl Jammers Testify Before Congress : Pop music: Before a House panel, members of the Seattle band allege monopolistic practices by Ticketmaster, whose chief executive counters the charges. - Los Angeles Times (latimes.com)

I dont think that "elite" is necessarily the mentality.

I think the options were "Raise prices significantly across all levels to cover TM's requests" or "Keep some prices moderate, while allowing TM to keep some back and charge more, and in the process, the band gets more too"

I am ok with that.

Also, yeah, I think things change over the course of 30+ years. They did their time drudging through clubs, paying for their own travel and booking, charging 20 bucks a ticket, etc. They lasted, and they are a massively popular band whom everyone wants to see, and they dont have the energy or desire to tour 80 dates a year.

For me "elite" = "premium."
To be clear, I am not actually mad with the band or the 10c for doing whatever it is they wish to do. More power to them. They deserve it. We all wish to be in their position in our careers.
However, the hypocrisy in the overall circumstance is too overwhelming. To not be able to see it is to have blind loyalty, in my opinion.

Fair point, but I dont see it as hypocrisy.

First, I think this is more of a TM thing than a 10C or band thing.

But even in light of that...those days 30 years ago are long gone, as someone said. Trying to hold them to some idealistic standard that was set way back then is just unfair. If they want to tour, they have to play by the system that is in place. I'm sure they would rather play by a different set of rules, but they have to do what they can.

Remember the disaster when they tried to tour without TM? It was nearly impossible for people to get tickets. Forget fan clubs for a moment, just actually anyone getting to see them was a disaster.

Maybe I have not been as clear as I could have. The hypocrisy I refer to is this.....in this instance the band and TM are telling us as fans "what's good for me is not good for thee" they can dynamically price their PJ premium seats which, let's call it what it is is SCALPING, is perfectly fine and dandy. We, as fans, cannot even transfer a ticket to a friend coming with us to a show if they are running late, let alone sell it. The persona I refer to that was established over 30 years is the speak truth to power....intolerant of being taken advantage of attitude I believed still existed. We cannot even post a 2 for 1 ticket trade on the board without being chastised. If both parties are happy what is the issue? If I want to buy a PJ Premium ticket and I am happy then what is the issue? No issue in one instance.

I am NOT criticizing the business aspect of this tour or any for that matter. In fact, I hope they make a boat load of money, as they should because they are the greatest rock and roll band ever, in my mind. We all "work" and strive for a better life and I hold them to the same standard as I do myself. I wish I had a boat load of money too.

However, as I grew up and learned with Pearl Jam is that.....it is not OK being taken advantage of no matter what and certainly when it is for the benefit of profit. This is EXACTLY how this feels. It is ok to call out hypocrisy as you see it even to something or someone you love.

All I think we in the ten club could ask for is to be treated the same way the band wishes to be treated because this is what they helped instill in us, as fans.

I will be in Oakland come hell or high water.....still looking for a GA each night.

Ok, this makes more sense in that aspect.

mattcoz · April 2022

cmalisze said:

show previous quotes

Vedd Hedd said:

cmalisze said:

Vedd Hedd said:

cmalisze said:

Vedd Hedd said:

cmalisze said:

brarble said:

Poncier said:

JR86440 said:

People who complain about premium have never tried to run a business. There are sooooo many costs that go into running a business that people don’t see. It’s not as simple as multiplying 20k seats by $100 and dividing by 6 band members… counting Boom of course! Benefits for employees, liability insurance, salaries, rent, taxes, travel, crew, etc. Plus they need to Maher a profit. It’s not a non profit organization. $100 for 95% of the crowd for a band of PJ’s caliber is dirt cheap in my mind. And they aren’t the chili peppers who play 18 songs. Either need to accept premium or accept $150 tickets. Add in the fact that they have families to support I feel what they are doing is more than reasonable

Yet they have managed to run their business without doing PJ Premium for 30 years until now. Just moderately increasing ticket prices at a fair and reasonable rate as time has gone on. Are you saying that the business model they used for 3 decades was faulty?
My hunch is that given inflation, the "moderately increasing ticket prices at a fair and reasonable rate" method you describe would put tickets at around $150-$200 range (vs the $108 they're charging). Since so many ppl probably got refunds in 2020 and are now attempting to buy again, I'm guessing that PJ wanted to keep prices looking like they did in 2020 for the vast majority (and defray the difference with a few Premium seats) vs doubling the price for everyone.

And while I do love the old model... even this current model (mostly low cost tickets + a smattering of premium) is honestly not that bad compared to most other artists. If we're ranking all bands/artists on a spectrum of "fair pricing policies", even the "PJ Premium" method is better and more fair than 99% of the other bands out there. Honestly can't think of a single band or artist that has kept prices this low.

Most of these arenas seat around 17,000 ppl. I'm seeing about 50-100 Premium seats per show. I hate dynamic pricing as much as the next guy, but it's wild to me that ppl are getting this angry about the 0.5% of overpriced tickets while not appreciating that the other 99.5% are by far the lowest most reasonable you will find in any band/artist of Pearl Jam's level.

It isn't about the 0.5% of overpriced tickets......it is about a persona created over nearly 30 years and then obliterated in one business transaction in 2022. That is the point. The hypocrisy rings loud as can be.

I dont quite get your point. You are saying they should lose money on the tour based on some persona?
Or are you saying charge EVERYONE more, so that there are no premium seats?

Define "losing money." Aside from their actual music their persona is likely why many fell in love with them, I would imagine. I am saying don't criticize scalpers/scalping and then condone it only when it benefits you. I would be all for consistent tiered pricing. GA $$$ lower level $$ upper level $. If the band/TM has a number to reach there are many ways to obtain it. The "elite" mentality of PJ Premium is NOT the mentality the band exhibited during the years of establishing their persona....you know when Stone and Jeff went to Congress...

Pearl Jammers Testify Before Congress : Pop music: Before a House panel, members of the Seattle band allege monopolistic practices by Ticketmaster, whose chief executive counters the charges. - Los Angeles Times (latimes.com)

I dont think that "elite" is necessarily the mentality.

I think the options were "Raise prices significantly across all levels to cover TM's requests" or "Keep some prices moderate, while allowing TM to keep some back and charge more, and in the process, the band gets more too"

I am ok with that.

Also, yeah, I think things change over the course of 30+ years. They did their time drudging through clubs, paying for their own travel and booking, charging 20 bucks a ticket, etc. They lasted, and they are a massively popular band whom everyone wants to see, and they dont have the energy or desire to tour 80 dates a year.

For me "elite" = "premium."
To be clear, I am not actually mad with the band or the 10c for doing whatever it is they wish to do. More power to them. They deserve it. We all wish to be in their position in our careers.
However, the hypocrisy in the overall circumstance is too overwhelming. To not be able to see it is to have blind loyalty, in my opinion.

Fair point, but I dont see it as hypocrisy.

First, I think this is more of a TM thing than a 10C or band thing.

But even in light of that...those days 30 years ago are long gone, as someone said. Trying to hold them to some idealistic standard that was set way back then is just unfair. If they want to tour, they have to play by the system that is in place. I'm sure they would rather play by a different set of rules, but they have to do what they can.

Remember the disaster when they tried to tour without TM? It was nearly impossible for people to get tickets. Forget fan clubs for a moment, just actually anyone getting to see them was a disaster.

Maybe I have not been as clear as I could have. The hypocrisy I refer to is this.....in this instance the band and TM are telling us as fans "what's good for me is not good for thee" they can dynamically price their PJ premium seats which, let's call it what it is is SCALPING, is perfectly fine and dandy. We, as fans, cannot even transfer a ticket to a friend coming with us to a show if they are running late, let alone sell it. The persona I refer to that was established over 30 years is the speak truth to power....intolerant of being taken advantage of attitude I believed still existed. We cannot even post a 2 for 1 ticket trade on the board without being chastised. If both parties are happy what is the issue? If I want to buy a PJ Premium ticket and I am happy then what is the issue? No issue in one instance.

I am NOT criticizing the business aspect of this tour or any for that matter. In fact, I hope they make a boat load of money, as they should because they are the greatest rock and roll band ever, in my mind. We all "work" and strive for a better life and I hold them to the same standard as I do myself. I wish I had a boat load of money too.

However, as I grew up and learned with Pearl Jam is that.....it is not OK being taken advantage of no matter what and certainly when it is for the benefit of profit. This is EXACTLY how this feels. It is ok to call out hypocrisy as you see it even to something or someone you love.

All I think we in the ten club could ask for is to be treated the same way the band wishes to be treated because this is what they helped instill in us, as fans.

I will be in Oakland come hell or high water.....still looking for a GA each night.

It's all to keep the money in the primary market and out of the secondary market. They don't allow direct transfers because that could be tied to a transaction outside of the primary market. They have no way to know that your "friend" didn't pay you for that ticket. That's Ticketmaster's motivation here, and, yes, more money in the primary market does mean more money for the band. Now, as someone who has no ill-intentions and just wants their ticket to go to good use, this does suck. The fan-to-fan marketplace is a step in the right direction, but still leaves a lot to be desired. First off, it should be available from day one, as soon as you buy a ticket you should be able to sell it for face value, or less if you want. By not doing that, by holding it back, they're creating artificial scarcity so that they can price tickets above true market value. Even then, that doesn't help the situation where you just want to give it to a friend. For years, trading between fan club members was common. I got to go to many shows thanks to buying extras from the great people in this club, and in turn I have sold my extras to many people. What's the solution? What would make everyone happy? I don't have the answer.

cmalisze · April 2022

mattcoz said:

show previous quotes

cmalisze said:

Vedd Hedd said:

cmalisze said:

Vedd Hedd said:

cmalisze said:

Vedd Hedd said:

cmalisze said:

brarble said:

Poncier said:

JR86440 said:

People who complain about premium have never tried to run a business. There are sooooo many costs that go into running a business that people don’t see. It’s not as simple as multiplying 20k seats by $100 and dividing by 6 band members… counting Boom of course! Benefits for employees, liability insurance, salaries, rent, taxes, travel, crew, etc. Plus they need to Maher a profit. It’s not a non profit organization. $100 for 95% of the crowd for a band of PJ’s caliber is dirt cheap in my mind. And they aren’t the chili peppers who play 18 songs. Either need to accept premium or accept $150 tickets. Add in the fact that they have families to support I feel what they are doing is more than reasonable

Yet they have managed to run their business without doing PJ Premium for 30 years until now. Just moderately increasing ticket prices at a fair and reasonable rate as time has gone on. Are you saying that the business model they used for 3 decades was faulty?
My hunch is that given inflation, the "moderately increasing ticket prices at a fair and reasonable rate" method you describe would put tickets at around $150-$200 range (vs the $108 they're charging). Since so many ppl probably got refunds in 2020 and are now attempting to buy again, I'm guessing that PJ wanted to keep prices looking like they did in 2020 for the vast majority (and defray the difference with a few Premium seats) vs doubling the price for everyone.

And while I do love the old model... even this current model (mostly low cost tickets + a smattering of premium) is honestly not that bad compared to most other artists. If we're ranking all bands/artists on a spectrum of "fair pricing policies", even the "PJ Premium" method is better and more fair than 99% of the other bands out there. Honestly can't think of a single band or artist that has kept prices this low.

Most of these arenas seat around 17,000 ppl. I'm seeing about 50-100 Premium seats per show. I hate dynamic pricing as much as the next guy, but it's wild to me that ppl are getting this angry about the 0.5% of overpriced tickets while not appreciating that the other 99.5% are by far the lowest most reasonable you will find in any band/artist of Pearl Jam's level.

It isn't about the 0.5% of overpriced tickets......it is about a persona created over nearly 30 years and then obliterated in one business transaction in 2022. That is the point. The hypocrisy rings loud as can be.

I dont quite get your point. You are saying they should lose money on the tour based on some persona?
Or are you saying charge EVERYONE more, so that there are no premium seats?

Define "losing money." Aside from their actual music their persona is likely why many fell in love with them, I would imagine. I am saying don't criticize scalpers/scalping and then condone it only when it benefits you. I would be all for consistent tiered pricing. GA $$$ lower level $$ upper level $. If the band/TM has a number to reach there are many ways to obtain it. The "elite" mentality of PJ Premium is NOT the mentality the band exhibited during the years of establishing their persona....you know when Stone and Jeff went to Congress...

Pearl Jammers Testify Before Congress : Pop music: Before a House panel, members of the Seattle band allege monopolistic practices by Ticketmaster, whose chief executive counters the charges. - Los Angeles Times (latimes.com)

I dont think that "elite" is necessarily the mentality.

I think the options were "Raise prices significantly across all levels to cover TM's requests" or "Keep some prices moderate, while allowing TM to keep some back and charge more, and in the process, the band gets more too"

I am ok with that.

Also, yeah, I think things change over the course of 30+ years. They did their time drudging through clubs, paying for their own travel and booking, charging 20 bucks a ticket, etc. They lasted, and they are a massively popular band whom everyone wants to see, and they dont have the energy or desire to tour 80 dates a year.

For me "elite" = "premium."
To be clear, I am not actually mad with the band or the 10c for doing whatever it is they wish to do. More power to them. They deserve it. We all wish to be in their position in our careers.
However, the hypocrisy in the overall circumstance is too overwhelming. To not be able to see it is to have blind loyalty, in my opinion.

Fair point, but I dont see it as hypocrisy.

First, I think this is more of a TM thing than a 10C or band thing.

But even in light of that...those days 30 years ago are long gone, as someone said. Trying to hold them to some idealistic standard that was set way back then is just unfair. If they want to tour, they have to play by the system that is in place. I'm sure they would rather play by a different set of rules, but they have to do what they can.

Remember the disaster when they tried to tour without TM? It was nearly impossible for people to get tickets. Forget fan clubs for a moment, just actually anyone getting to see them was a disaster.

Maybe I have not been as clear as I could have. The hypocrisy I refer to is this.....in this instance the band and TM are telling us as fans "what's good for me is not good for thee" they can dynamically price their PJ premium seats which, let's call it what it is is SCALPING, is perfectly fine and dandy. We, as fans, cannot even transfer a ticket to a friend coming with us to a show if they are running late, let alone sell it. The persona I refer to that was established over 30 years is the speak truth to power....intolerant of being taken advantage of attitude I believed still existed. We cannot even post a 2 for 1 ticket trade on the board without being chastised. If both parties are happy what is the issue? If I want to buy a PJ Premium ticket and I am happy then what is the issue? No issue in one instance.

I am NOT criticizing the business aspect of this tour or any for that matter. In fact, I hope they make a boat load of money, as they should because they are the greatest rock and roll band ever, in my mind. We all "work" and strive for a better life and I hold them to the same standard as I do myself. I wish I had a boat load of money too.

However, as I grew up and learned with Pearl Jam is that.....it is not OK being taken advantage of no matter what and certainly when it is for the benefit of profit. This is EXACTLY how this feels. It is ok to call out hypocrisy as you see it even to something or someone you love.

All I think we in the ten club could ask for is to be treated the same way the band wishes to be treated because this is what they helped instill in us, as fans.

I will be in Oakland come hell or high water.....still looking for a GA each night.

It's all to keep the money in the primary market and out of the secondary market. They don't allow direct transfers because that could be tied to a transaction outside of the primary market. They have no way to know that your "friend" didn't pay you for that ticket. That's Ticketmaster's motivation here, and, yes, more money in the primary market does mean more money for the band. Now, as someone who has no ill-intentions and just wants their ticket to go to good use, this does suck. The fan-to-fan marketplace is a step in the right direction, but still leaves a lot to be desired. First off, it should be available from day one, as soon as you buy a ticket you should be able to sell it for face value, or less if you want. By not doing that, by holding it back, they're creating artificial scarcity so that they can price tickets above true market value. Even then, that doesn't help the situation where you just want to give it to a friend. For years, trading between fan club members was common. I got to go to many shows thanks to buying extras from the great people in this club, and in turn I have sold my extras to many people. What's the solution? What would make everyone happy? I don't have the answer.

I think in this instance.....consistency.....fairness......equity....and transparency would be a start to happiness.....none of which has occurred fully......in some aspects yes....but now that is 100% clear that we are not a "Jamily" (I hate that saying) and that this is a business transaction of which two parties are not even working in the same agreement let alone standards....fans should push back and demand equity because this is what the band would want for themselves.....

Still waiting to sell some seats to AZ and LA via F2F..which is STILL not up.....but there sure are some "PJ Premium" seats to buy......

ddeschler · April 2022

If you look at the TM sites for PJ's Euro shows, there's no PJ Premium. Is it because these shows were announced before PJ went Premium, or because of laws in those countries against this type of practice? Perhaps our international members know the answer.

We can let the band and media outlets know we don't like PJ Premium, on this forum and social media. We can also call the U.S. Representatives in our respective districts, and share our displeasure with TM's monopolistic practices. Some outlets, like John Oliver, are taking notice. But government action is what is actually needed, to enforce anti-trust laws and break up TM.

Get_Right · April 2022

ddeschler said:

If you look at the TM sites for PJ's Euro shows, there's no PJ Premium. Is it because these shows were announced before PJ went Premium, or because of laws in those countries against this type of practice? Perhaps our international members know the answer.

We can let the band and media outlets know we don't like PJ Premium, on this forum and social media. We can also call the U.S. Representatives in our respective districts, and share our displeasure with TM's monopolistic practices. Some outlets, like John Oliver, are taking notice. But government action is what is actually needed, to enforce anti-trust laws and break up TM.

Yep and it has been reviewed the Department of Justice and the Federal Trade Commission. If you recall, TM settled the FTC case and gave vouchers out. I do not remember how much exactly, but ticket buyers received a small dollar voucher for every ticket they bought in the past I think I received about 20 of them. In typical TM fashion, none of the vouchers worked for any show or sporting event I wanted to attend and they went unused. I would guess the same for anyone else that received them. TM up to their same old tricks.

EDIT: Good point about Europe. Thanks for giving me a new question to investigate!

JimmyV · April 2022

Luxury boxes in LA seat up to ten with VIP service are available for $6,000. Seems like a better deal than a $4,500 seat at MSG.

Poncier · April 2022

Get_Right said:

show previous quotes

ddeschler said:

If you look at the TM sites for PJ's Euro shows, there's no PJ Premium. Is it because these shows were announced before PJ went Premium, or because of laws in those countries against this type of practice? Perhaps our international members know the answer.

We can let the band and media outlets know we don't like PJ Premium, on this forum and social media. We can also call the U.S. Representatives in our respective districts, and share our displeasure with TM's monopolistic practices. Some outlets, like John Oliver, are taking notice. But government action is what is actually needed, to enforce anti-trust laws and break up TM.

Yep and it has been reviewed the Department of Justice and the Federal Trade Commission. If you recall, TM settled the FTC case and gave vouchers out. I do not remember how much exactly, but ticket buyers received a small dollar voucher for every ticket they bought in the past I think I received about 20 of them. In typical TM fashion, none of the vouchers worked for any show or sporting event I wanted to attend and they went unused. I would guess the same for anyone else that received them. TM up to their same old tricks.

EDIT: Good point about Europe. Thanks for giving me a new question to investigate!

The vouchers were for $2.25 if I recall, how many you got depended on your buying history.
I managed to use a few, but usually when buying tix you're in a rush and afterwards remember the vouchers.
They got off real easy on that one and I'd venture a majority of vouchers issued were never claimed.

Luckytwn1 · April 2022

Get_Right said:

show previous quotes

ddeschler said:

If you look at the TM sites for PJ's Euro shows, there's no PJ Premium. Is it because these shows were announced before PJ went Premium, or because of laws in those countries against this type of practice? Perhaps our international members know the answer.

We can let the band and media outlets know we don't like PJ Premium, on this forum and social media. We can also call the U.S. Representatives in our respective districts, and share our displeasure with TM's monopolistic practices. Some outlets, like John Oliver, are taking notice. But government action is what is actually needed, to enforce anti-trust laws and break up TM.

Yep and it has been reviewed the Department of Justice and the Federal Trade Commission. If you recall, TM settled the FTC case and gave vouchers out. I do not remember how much exactly, but ticket buyers received a small dollar voucher for every ticket they bought in the past I think I received about 20 of them. In typical TM fashion, none of the vouchers worked for any show or sporting event I wanted to attend and they went unused. I would guess the same for anyone else that received them. TM up to their same old tricks.

EDIT: Good point about Europe. Thanks for giving me a new question to investigate!

Platinum Tickets are also used in Europe. Look at any major show at the O2 in the UK. Some countries less than others but UK, France, etc all have Platinum Tickets.

JimmyV · April 2022

Almost have to respect the evil genius of the vouchers. Get into trouble for shady business practices, offer vouchers to shows consumers were otherwise not going to as a make good, watch them buy concessions and parking that was otherwise going unsold. That is some Bond villain shit right there.

“PJ Premium” on Ticketmaster?

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