Ukraine

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  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,882

    So if this accurate, Russia has dropped 2 of its 3 demands from last week.  Not sure how much territory he is demanding.  If it includes Kharkov, I can't imagine that will ever happen. 


    A third round of talks between Russia and Ukraine ended without a breakthrough, Ukrainian officials said, as Russia continues to press Ukraine to give up Crimea and a large slice of eastern Ukraine as a condition for Russia to stop its attacks.

    The talks, which began as the war entered its 12th day, yielded some progress in logistical arrangements for local cease-fires and evacuation corridors, said Ukrainian negotiator Mykhailo Podolyak after several days of failed efforts to enable civilians to safely leave areas under Russian attack.

    “So far, there weren’t results that significantly improve the situation,” said Podolyak, insisting that “consultations will be continued and we’ll get results.”

    Before the latest negotiations took place, Russian President Vladimir Putin had also demanded that Ukraine accept neutrality, abandon efforts to join NATO and completely demilitarize.

    Meanwhile, casualties climbed as fighting continued and local leaders anticipated additional attacks. In the crucial port city of Odessa, the mayor told The Washington Post, “The aggressor is not far. … For 10 days, the city has been living with this tension.”


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/07/russia-ukraine-war-news-putin-live-updates/

  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,882
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    oh my god. please, trump supporters, please try to claim again that this is trump "trolling" and "fooling" the left. 

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/07/politics/donald-trump-ukraine-china-russia/index.html
    I think he's just riffing.. stream of consciousness.  The problem is that this is how he thinks.  It's disqualifying.  
  • stuckinline
    stuckinline Posts: 3,406
    mrussel1 said:
    This is an interesting article about the Ukrainian centers on the west side of Cleveland, and how they view this...and maybe eventually how it collides with MAGA.  This is the part of Cleveland where I grew up and I can tell you that it is most definitely the pierogi capital of the US.  We would have pierogi day once per week in high school and it was magical. 

    BTW, for those of you who are voracious political readers, I highly recommend the Bulwark.  It is a conservative site, that is very anti-Trump.  So it's a good place to balance your perspective without reading the cesspool of nonsense from MAGA sites.  

    https://www.thebulwark.com/the-politics-of-ukraine-in-an-ohio-town/

    Parma, Ohio
    Ohio sits in the middle of what food marketers refer to as the “Pierogi Pocket of America.” And smack dab in the middle of this pocket is the town of Parma.

    Parma—population 80,000—is a suburb of Cleveland and has suddenly gotten a lot of attention because it has a large population of residents with Ukrainian heritage. It has a section of town called the “Ukrainian Village” and the Ukraine flag flies on the light poles on State Road.

    The “Ukies” came to Cleveland in the early 1900s, but they continued coming after World War II, with their numbers increasing even more following the collapse of the Soviet Union. They were mainly religious dissidents and those seeking freedom. Many of these immigrants eventually ended up in boxy suburban houses in Parma.

    St. Josaphat's Church on State Road in Parma makes the best pierogies!
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,882
    stuckinline said:
    mrussel1 said:
    This is an interesting article about the Ukrainian centers on the west side of Cleveland, and how they view this...and maybe eventually how it collides with MAGA.  This is the part of Cleveland where I grew up and I can tell you that it is most definitely the pierogi capital of the US.  We would have pierogi day once per week in high school and it was magical. 

    BTW, for those of you who are voracious political readers, I highly recommend the Bulwark.  It is a conservative site, that is very anti-Trump.  So it's a good place to balance your perspective without reading the cesspool of nonsense from MAGA sites.  

    https://www.thebulwark.com/the-politics-of-ukraine-in-an-ohio-town/

    Parma, Ohio
    Ohio sits in the middle of what food marketers refer to as the “Pierogi Pocket of America.” And smack dab in the middle of this pocket is the town of Parma.

    Parma—population 80,000—is a suburb of Cleveland and has suddenly gotten a lot of attention because it has a large population of residents with Ukrainian heritage. It has a section of town called the “Ukrainian Village” and the Ukraine flag flies on the light poles on State Road.

    The “Ukies” came to Cleveland in the early 1900s, but they continued coming after World War II, with their numbers increasing even more following the collapse of the Soviet Union. They were mainly religious dissidents and those seeking freedom. Many of these immigrants eventually ended up in boxy suburban houses in Parma.

    St. Josaphat's Church on State Road in Parma makes the best pierogies!
    You're a west side local?
  • JB16057
    JB16057 Posts: 1,269
    mrussel1 said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    oh my god. please, trump supporters, please try to claim again that this is trump "trolling" and "fooling" the left. 

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/07/politics/donald-trump-ukraine-china-russia/index.html
    I think he's just riffing.. stream of consciousness.  The problem is that this is how he thinks.  It's disqualifying.  
    Perfectly said!

  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 9,831
    edited March 2022
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    oh my god. please, trump supporters, please try to claim again that this is trump "trolling" and "fooling" the left. 

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/07/politics/donald-trump-ukraine-china-russia/index.html
    I couldnt click the audio clip mentioned, but it looks like this was not meant to be a public statement. My first impression is he’s joking with friends/donors. Not trolling and fooling the left because it looks like a private conversation. I’m sure we all have said dumb things in jest to friends. My wife and I joke around all the time about where we can ditch the kids, like a movie theater with Spider-Man, and going on our own date because they wouldn’t even notice. I hope no one overheard us and thinks that our serious solution to a babysitter.
    That seems more plausible to me than him thinking it’s a real solution.
    Listening to the audio would give a better sense of it’s a joke or his serious plan. I just can’t fathom anyone, at all, thinking that would be a good foreign policy.
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • PJNB
    PJNB Posts: 13,890
    mace1229 said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    oh my god. please, trump supporters, please try to claim again that this is trump "trolling" and "fooling" the left. 

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/07/politics/donald-trump-ukraine-china-russia/index.html
    I couldnt click the audio clip mentioned, but it looks like this was not meant to be a public statement. My first impression is he’s joking with friends/donors. Not trolling and fooling the left because it looks like a private conversation. I’m sure we all have said dumb things in jest to friends. My wife and I joke around all the time about where we can ditch the kids, like a movie theater with Spider-Man, and going on our own date because they wouldn’t even notice. I hope no one overheard us and thinks that our serious solution to a babysitter.
    That seems more plausible to me than him thinking it’s a real solution.
    Listening to the audio would give a better sense of it’s a joke or his serious plan. I just can’t fathom anyone, at all, thinking that would be a good foreign policy.
    Your first impression is, joke or not, why is this idiot saying this out loud should it not be? 

    Trump got by for 5 plus years with people defending that moron with the old oh he was just joking damage control. Trump throws so many ridiculous things out there and his supporters have the luxury of cherry picking which ones they like and do not like and using the he was just joking bro as an excuse for his incompetency.  
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,561
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    oh my god. please, trump supporters, please try to claim again that this is trump "trolling" and "fooling" the left. 

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/07/politics/donald-trump-ukraine-china-russia/index.html
    MAGAs reply was that it was Trump making a funny. 
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 9,831
    edited March 2022
    PJNB said:
    mace1229 said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    oh my god. please, trump supporters, please try to claim again that this is trump "trolling" and "fooling" the left. 

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/07/politics/donald-trump-ukraine-china-russia/index.html
    I couldnt click the audio clip mentioned, but it looks like this was not meant to be a public statement. My first impression is he’s joking with friends/donors. Not trolling and fooling the left because it looks like a private conversation. I’m sure we all have said dumb things in jest to friends. My wife and I joke around all the time about where we can ditch the kids, like a movie theater with Spider-Man, and going on our own date because they wouldn’t even notice. I hope no one overheard us and thinks that our serious solution to a babysitter.
    That seems more plausible to me than him thinking it’s a real solution.
    Listening to the audio would give a better sense of it’s a joke or his serious plan. I just can’t fathom anyone, at all, thinking that would be a good foreign policy.
    Your first impression is, joke or not, why is this idiot saying this out loud should it not be? 

    Trump got by for 5 plus years with people defending that moron with the old oh he was just joking damage control. Trump throws so many ridiculous things out there and his supporters have the luxury of cherry picking which ones they like and do not like and using the he was just joking bro as an excuse for his incompetency.  
    You think it’s more plausible that he thinks it would actually work? I don’t believe there is a single adult on the planet that believes that plan would work, who doesn’t know they’d track where the planes came from and where they went, among countless other issues that would prevent it from being a success. 
    It looks like a private conversation that was secretly recorded. So if I have to pick between a joke made in private or that he actually believes the worst plan in the history of warfare that no other single adult would agree with would actually work, the first seems much more likely to me. 
  • PJNB
    PJNB Posts: 13,890
    edited March 2022
    mace1229 said:
    PJNB said:
    mace1229 said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    oh my god. please, trump supporters, please try to claim again that this is trump "trolling" and "fooling" the left. 

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/07/politics/donald-trump-ukraine-china-russia/index.html
    I couldnt click the audio clip mentioned, but it looks like this was not meant to be a public statement. My first impression is he’s joking with friends/donors. Not trolling and fooling the left because it looks like a private conversation. I’m sure we all have said dumb things in jest to friends. My wife and I joke around all the time about where we can ditch the kids, like a movie theater with Spider-Man, and going on our own date because they wouldn’t even notice. I hope no one overheard us and thinks that our serious solution to a babysitter.
    That seems more plausible to me than him thinking it’s a real solution.
    Listening to the audio would give a better sense of it’s a joke or his serious plan. I just can’t fathom anyone, at all, thinking that would be a good foreign policy.
    Your first impression is, joke or not, why is this idiot saying this out loud should it not be? 

    Trump got by for 5 plus years with people defending that moron with the old oh he was just joking damage control. Trump throws so many ridiculous things out there and his supporters have the luxury of cherry picking which ones they like and do not like and using the he was just joking bro as an excuse for his incompetency.  
    You think it’s more plausible that he thinks it would actually work? I don’t believe there is a single adult on the planet that believes that plan would work, who doesn’t know they’d track where the planes came from and where they went, among countless other issues that would prevent it from being a success. 
    It looks like a private conversation that was secretly recorded. So if I have to pick between a joke made in private or that he actually believes the worst plan in the history of warfare that no other single adult would agree with would actually work, the first seems much more likely to me. 
    I 100% do think that. He thinks he is the smartest person in the room at all times. 

    Do you think one single person in this world other than him thought this idea would actually work? 

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfLZOkn0chc
    Post edited by PJNB on
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,664
    Here's a good summation of Russia's military status.  Not all good news, but not all bad:

    As Russia’s Military Stumbles, Its Adversaries Take Note

    President Vladimir Putin could still reduce cities in Ukraine to rubble, officials say. But European countries say they are not as intimidated by Russian ground forces as they were in the past.

    CONSTANTA, Romania — When it comes to war, generals say that “mass matters.”

    But nearly two weeks into President Vladimir V. Putin’s invasion of Ukraine — Europe’s largest land war since 1945 — the image of a Russian military as one that other countries should fear, let alone emulate, has been shattered.

    Ukraine’s military, which is dwarfed by the Russian force in most ways, has somehow managed to stymie its opponent. Ukrainian soldiers have killed more than 3,000 Russian troops, according to conservative estimates by American officials.

    Ukraine has shot down military transport planes carrying Russian paratroopers, downed helicopters and blown holes in Russia’s convoys using American anti-tank missiles and armed drones supplied by Turkey, these officials said, citing confidential U.S. intelligence assessments.

    The Russian soldiers have been plagued by poor morale as well as fuel and food shortages. Some troops have crossed the border with MREs (meals ready to eat) that expired in 2002, U.S. and other Western officials said, and others have surrendered and sabotaged their own vehicles to avoid fighting.

    To be sure, most military experts say that Russia will eventually subdue Ukraine’s army. Russia’s military, at 900,000 active duty troops and two million reservists, is eight times the size of Ukraine’s. Russia has advanced fighter planes, a formidable navy and marines capable of multiple amphibious landings, as they proved early in the invasion when they launched from the Black Sea and headed toward the city of Mariupol.

    And the Western governments that have spoken openly about Russia’s military failings are eager to spread the word to help damage Russian morale and bolster the Ukrainians.

    But with each day that Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky holds out, the scenes of a frustrated Russia pounding, but not managing to finish off, a smaller opponent dominate screens around the world.

    The result: Militaries in Europe that once feared Russia say they are not as intimidated by Russian ground forces as they were in the past.

    That Russia has so quickly abandoned surgical strikes, instead killing civilians trying to flee, could damage Mr. Putin’s chances of winning a long-term war in Ukraine. The brutal tactics may eventually overwhelm Ukraine’s defenses, but they will almost certainly fuel a bloody insurgency that could bog down Russia for years, military analysts say. Most of all, Russia has exposed to its European neighbors and American rivals gaps in its military strategy that can be exploited in future battles.

    “Today what I have seen is that even this huge army or military is not so huge,” said Lt. Gen. Martin Herem, Estonia’s chief of defense, during a news conference at an air base in northern Estonia with Gen. Mark A. Milley, the chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff. General Herem’s colleague and the air force chief, Brig. Gen. Rauno Sirk, in an interview with a local newspaper, was even more blunt in his assessment of the Russian air force. “If you look at what’s on the other side, you’ll see that there isn’t really an opponent anymore,” he said.

    Many of the more than 150,000 largely conscripted troops that Moscow has deployed across Ukraine have been bogged down north of Kyiv, the capital. The northeastern city of Kharkiv was expected to fall within hours of the invasion; it is battered by an onslaught of rocket fire and shelling, but still standing.

    Every day, Pentagon officials caution that Russia’s military will soon correct its mistakes, perhaps shutting off communications across the country, cutting off Mr. Zelensky from his commanders. Or Russia could try to shut down Ukraine’s banking system, or parts of the power grid, to increase pressure on the civilian population to capitulate.

    Even if they don’t, the officials say a frustrated Mr. Putin has the firepower to simply reduce Ukraine to rubble — although he would be destroying the very prize he wants. The use of that kind of force would expose not only the miscalculations the Kremlin made in launching a complex, three-sided invasion but also the limits of Russia’s military upgrades.


    The Kremlin spent the last 20 years trying to modernize its military,” said Andrei V. Kozyrev, the foreign minister for Russia under Boris Yeltsin, in a post on Twitter. “Much of that budget was stolen and spent on mega-yachts in Cyprus. But as a military advisor you cannot report that to the President. So they reported lies to him instead. Potemkin military.”

    During a trip through the Eastern European countries that fear they could next face Mr. Putin’s military, General Milley has consistently been asked the same questions. Why have the Russians performed so poorly in the early days of the war? Why did they so badly misjudge the Ukrainian resistance?

    His careful response, before reporters in Estonia: “We’ve seen a large, combined-arms, multi-axis invasion of the second-largest country in Europe, Ukraine, by Russian air, ground, special forces, intelligence forces,” he said, before describing some of the bombardment brought by Russia and his concern over its “indiscriminate firing” on civilians.

    “It’s a little bit early to draw any definitive lessons learned,” he added. “But one of the lessons that’s clearly evident is that the will of the people, the will of the Ukrainian people, and the importance of national leadership and the fighting skills of the Ukrainian army has come through loud and clear.”

    While the Russian army’s troubles are real, the public’s view of the fight is skewed by the realities of the information battlefield. Russia remains keen to play down the war and provides little information about its victories or defeats, contributing to an incomplete picture.

    But a dissection of the Russian military’s performance so far, compiled from interviews with two dozen American, NATO and Ukrainian officials, paints a portrait of young, inexperienced conscripted soldiers who have not been empowered to make on-the-spot decisions, and a noncommissioned officer corps that isn’t allowed to make decisions either. Russia’s military leadership, with Gen. Valery Gerasimov at the top, is far too centralized; lieutenants must ask him for permission even on small matters, said the officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss operational matters.










    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,479
    edited March 2022
    Skip Coke, Pepsi and McDonalds when you're out urging for sugar and fat:


    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • lastexitlondon
    lastexitlondon Posts: 14,904
    edited March 2022
    Without Facebook  and these fast food outlets ,russians will end the  healthiest  well rounded  folk 


    this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,472
    lastexitlondon said:
    Without Facebook  and these fast food outlets ,russians will end the  healthiest  well rounded  folk 

    while being fed lies by their government
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • lastexitlondon
    lastexitlondon Posts: 14,904
    mickeyrat said:
    lastexitlondon said:
    Without Facebook  and these fast food outlets ,russians will end the  healthiest  well rounded  folk 

    while being fed lies by their government
    Aren't  we all


    this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,472
    lastexitlondon said:
    mickeyrat said:
    lastexitlondon said:
    Without Facebook  and these fast food outlets ,russians will end the  healthiest  well rounded  folk 

    while being fed lies by their government
    Aren't  we all

    there are independent journalists and news outlets  to seek out.

    not there, not now
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • lastexitlondon
    lastexitlondon Posts: 14,904
    The russian people are scared to even speak. They are not allowed to say the word war. Its called an operation.  I get  it. My point was they wont have some of the worst  things  available to them. 


    this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,479
    Speaking of Shell @mickeyrat


    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Spiritual_Chaos
    Spiritual_Chaos Posts: 31,479
    edited March 2022
    nvm
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • stuckinline
    stuckinline Posts: 3,406
    mrussel1 said:
    stuckinline said:
    mrussel1 said:
    This is an interesting article about the Ukrainian centers on the west side of Cleveland, and how they view this...and maybe eventually how it collides with MAGA.  This is the part of Cleveland where I grew up and I can tell you that it is most definitely the pierogi capital of the US.  We would have pierogi day once per week in high school and it was magical. 

    BTW, for those of you who are voracious political readers, I highly recommend the Bulwark.  It is a conservative site, that is very anti-Trump.  So it's a good place to balance your perspective without reading the cesspool of nonsense from MAGA sites.  

    https://www.thebulwark.com/the-politics-of-ukraine-in-an-ohio-town/

    Parma, Ohio
    Ohio sits in the middle of what food marketers refer to as the “Pierogi Pocket of America.” And smack dab in the middle of this pocket is the town of Parma.

    Parma—population 80,000—is a suburb of Cleveland and has suddenly gotten a lot of attention because it has a large population of residents with Ukrainian heritage. It has a section of town called the “Ukrainian Village” and the Ukraine flag flies on the light poles on State Road.

    The “Ukies” came to Cleveland in the early 1900s, but they continued coming after World War II, with their numbers increasing even more following the collapse of the Soviet Union. They were mainly religious dissidents and those seeking freedom. Many of these immigrants eventually ended up in boxy suburban houses in Parma.

    St. Josaphat's Church on State Road in Parma makes the best pierogies!
    You're a west side local?
    Check your messages.

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