Ukraine

Meltdown99 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

The Juggler said:

mrussel1 said:

So the question may soon become.. What escape hatch will the West give Putin to withdraw and save face?   This has to be a topic of conversation between Ukraine, US, Britain, Germany, etc.  This cannot be an unconditional surrender against Putin.  Let him keep the two breakaways?  Let him keep one?  He isn't going to disarm, obviously.  Nor will his demand for Ukraine's military to overtake the political apparatus happen either. 

May be too early to think about it, but I am.  The war isn't going well for them and the economic sanctions are hitting fast. I can't believe they are mostly cutoff from SWIFT.  I thought this would take much longer.  Sberbank is going to fail.  Market was closed today to protect it.  They are literally an international pariah. 

Do you think giving him the two breakaways would work? I was thinking about that this morning. I bet Putin would claim that as a win but it's obviously not what he originally wanted. 

I don't know, honestly.  Depends on how desperate he is.  If he is cornered, he could lash out and intensify the war, or he might want to cut his losses and say all he ever wanted was protection on the western flank.  Of course his message that SC posted never says that BS line either.  It's much more imperialistic.  

Unless we think there will be a coup and he is deposed, there has to be an exit ramp for Putin.  Because all the power (read: money) is concentrated into the oligarchs who are close to Putin, and who would be financially and legally devastated if he was deposed, I think a coup is unlikely.  So then what's the next option for Ukraine/West?

I mean... he/Russia has swung back and forth more than Trump over figuring out a defense. The Defense has been marely freeing two isolated areas. Then freeing the whole of Ukraine from nenoazis. From drugusers. From Ukraine wanting to commit genocide. To now in the UN saying Ukraine was on the way to develop nukes. If I understood the russian delegate correctly. 

The truth is - Putin is 70 year old and want's his legacy to be that he was the one who restored the Russian empire by taking back, at least, Ukraine. 

Is there any chance his inner circle will take him out?  

mrussel1 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

The Juggler said:

mrussel1 said:

So the question may soon become.. What escape hatch will the West give Putin to withdraw and save face?   This has to be a topic of conversation between Ukraine, US, Britain, Germany, etc.  This cannot be an unconditional surrender against Putin.  Let him keep the two breakaways?  Let him keep one?  He isn't going to disarm, obviously.  Nor will his demand for Ukraine's military to overtake the political apparatus happen either. 

May be too early to think about it, but I am.  The war isn't going well for them and the economic sanctions are hitting fast. I can't believe they are mostly cutoff from SWIFT.  I thought this would take much longer.  Sberbank is going to fail.  Market was closed today to protect it.  They are literally an international pariah. 

Do you think giving him the two breakaways would work? I was thinking about that this morning. I bet Putin would claim that as a win but it's obviously not what he originally wanted. 

I don't know, honestly.  Depends on how desperate he is.  If he is cornered, he could lash out and intensify the war, or he might want to cut his losses and say all he ever wanted was protection on the western flank.  Of course his message that SC posted never says that BS line either.  It's much more imperialistic.  

Unless we think there will be a coup and he is deposed, there has to be an exit ramp for Putin.  Because all the power (read: money) is concentrated into the oligarchs who are close to Putin, and who would be financially and legally devastated if he was deposed, I think a coup is unlikely.  So then what's the next option for Ukraine/West?

I mean... he/Russia has swung back and forth more than Trump over figuring out a defense. The Defense has been marely freeing two isolated areas. Then freeing the whole of Ukraine from nenoazis. From drugusers. From Ukraine wanting to commit genocide. To now in the UN saying Ukraine was on the way to develop nukes. If I understood the russian delegate correctly. 

The truth is - Putin is 70 year old and want's his legacy to be that he was the one who restored the Russian empire by taking back, at least, Ukraine. 

Is there any chance his inner circle will take him out?  

I think it's tough for the reasons I mentioned above.  His inner circle are as corrupt as he is.  If he is taken out, then he will have to be replaced by another corrupt depot.  Otherwise the oligarchs will be in jail or against a wall pretty quickly as well.  

I hope I'm wrong. 

Spiritual_Chaos said:

https://twitter.com/NTarnopolsky/status/1498346782656454656?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1498346782656454656%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=

mickeyrat said:

brianlux said:

mrussel1 said:

So the question may soon become.. What escape hatch will the West give Putin to withdraw and save face?   This has to be a topic of conversation between Ukraine, US, Britain, Germany, etc.  This cannot be an unconditional surrender against Putin.  Let him keep the two breakaways?  Let him keep one?  He isn't going to disarm, obviously.  Nor will his demand for Ukraine's military to overtake the political apparatus happen either. 

May be too early to think about it, but I am.  The war isn't going well for them and the economic sanctions are hitting fast. I can't believe they are mostly cutoff from SWIFT.  I thought this would take much longer.  Sberbank is going to fail.  Market was closed today to protect it.  They are literally an international pariah. 

I've heard others suggest the same thing, that the West needs to give Putin a way to save face.  I understand that argument and, considering his power and instability of mind, it's probably for the best.  But a better solution might be for him to be deposed or eliminated in some way by his own people.  He has brought total shame to his people and country.  Much of the world is united against him.  But of course, because of that, the question becomes, how desperate and unstable has he become.

As a side note, I'm a little surprised how relative little traction this event has been gained here on AMT.  The war in Ukraine is the biggest current event to happen in the world in many years and yet only a handful of people post here while other, less pressing issues seem to get equal or greater attention.  Strange and baffling!

how little traction? wtf are you talking about.? created on Jan 25. now on 40 pages with some 1200 plus comments.

seems inordinate amount of traction.

and the world did not stop turning.

NK fired off another hey remember I'm a madman missle , other fucked up important shit is still going on.

why havent we addressed Myanmar? or the other atrocities going on in the world.

in 6 hours last week I woke up to 438 comments here. in SIX HOURS  too little traction.....

Meltdown99 said:

mrussel1 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

The Juggler said:

mrussel1 said:

So the question may soon become.. What escape hatch will the West give Putin to withdraw and save face?   This has to be a topic of conversation between Ukraine, US, Britain, Germany, etc.  This cannot be an unconditional surrender against Putin.  Let him keep the two breakaways?  Let him keep one?  He isn't going to disarm, obviously.  Nor will his demand for Ukraine's military to overtake the political apparatus happen either. 

May be too early to think about it, but I am.  The war isn't going well for them and the economic sanctions are hitting fast. I can't believe they are mostly cutoff from SWIFT.  I thought this would take much longer.  Sberbank is going to fail.  Market was closed today to protect it.  They are literally an international pariah. 

Do you think giving him the two breakaways would work? I was thinking about that this morning. I bet Putin would claim that as a win but it's obviously not what he originally wanted. 

I don't know, honestly.  Depends on how desperate he is.  If he is cornered, he could lash out and intensify the war, or he might want to cut his losses and say all he ever wanted was protection on the western flank.  Of course his message that SC posted never says that BS line either.  It's much more imperialistic.  

Unless we think there will be a coup and he is deposed, there has to be an exit ramp for Putin.  Because all the power (read: money) is concentrated into the oligarchs who are close to Putin, and who would be financially and legally devastated if he was deposed, I think a coup is unlikely.  So then what's the next option for Ukraine/West?

I mean... he/Russia has swung back and forth more than Trump over figuring out a defense. The Defense has been marely freeing two isolated areas. Then freeing the whole of Ukraine from nenoazis. From drugusers. From Ukraine wanting to commit genocide. To now in the UN saying Ukraine was on the way to develop nukes. If I understood the russian delegate correctly. 

The truth is - Putin is 70 year old and want's his legacy to be that he was the one who restored the Russian empire by taking back, at least, Ukraine. 

Is there any chance his inner circle will take him out?  

I think it's tough for the reasons I mentioned above.  His inner circle are as corrupt as he is.  If he is taken out, then he will have to be replaced by another corrupt depot.  Otherwise the oligarchs will be in jail or against a wall pretty quickly as well.  

I hope I'm wrong. 

Ok.  I did not know if these sanctions might be making people close to him nervous.  However, I’m sure Vlad and his inner circle have billions that can’t be touched by sanctions…when this is over or maybe before it’s over, Ukraine should be given NATO membership…I’m not sure if they were offered NATO membership before Russia invaded if that would have stopped the invasion?  And now that NATO countries are supplying weaponry, NATO countries are involved far more than I anticipated…

brianlux said:

mickeyrat said:

brianlux said:

mrussel1 said:

So the question may soon become.. What escape hatch will the West give Putin to withdraw and save face?   This has to be a topic of conversation between Ukraine, US, Britain, Germany, etc.  This cannot be an unconditional surrender against Putin.  Let him keep the two breakaways?  Let him keep one?  He isn't going to disarm, obviously.  Nor will his demand for Ukraine's military to overtake the political apparatus happen either. 

May be too early to think about it, but I am.  The war isn't going well for them and the economic sanctions are hitting fast. I can't believe they are mostly cutoff from SWIFT.  I thought this would take much longer.  Sberbank is going to fail.  Market was closed today to protect it.  They are literally an international pariah. 

I've heard others suggest the same thing, that the West needs to give Putin a way to save face.  I understand that argument and, considering his power and instability of mind, it's probably for the best.  But a better solution might be for him to be deposed or eliminated in some way by his own people.  He has brought total shame to his people and country.  Much of the world is united against him.  But of course, because of that, the question becomes, how desperate and unstable has he become.

As a side note, I'm a little surprised how relative little traction this event has been gained here on AMT.  The war in Ukraine is the biggest current event to happen in the world in many years and yet only a handful of people post here while other, less pressing issues seem to get equal or greater attention.  Strange and baffling!

how little traction? wtf are you talking about.? created on Jan 25. now on 40 pages with some 1200 plus comments.

seems inordinate amount of traction.

and the world did not stop turning.

NK fired off another hey remember I'm a madman missle , other fucked up important shit is still going on.

why havent we addressed Myanmar? or the other atrocities going on in the world.

in 6 hours last week I woke up to 438 comments here. in SIX HOURS  too little traction.....

I feel like I'm getting my ass chewed. 

What, maybe 10 people posting here and most of the post from about half of those.

Sometime I just feel like fuck this place.  Angry nasty posts and stupid memes.  Fuck it.

mrussel1 said:

Meltdown99 said:

mrussel1 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

The Juggler said:

mrussel1 said:

So the question may soon become.. What escape hatch will the West give Putin to withdraw and save face?   This has to be a topic of conversation between Ukraine, US, Britain, Germany, etc.  This cannot be an unconditional surrender against Putin.  Let him keep the two breakaways?  Let him keep one?  He isn't going to disarm, obviously.  Nor will his demand for Ukraine's military to overtake the political apparatus happen either. 

May be too early to think about it, but I am.  The war isn't going well for them and the economic sanctions are hitting fast. I can't believe they are mostly cutoff from SWIFT.  I thought this would take much longer.  Sberbank is going to fail.  Market was closed today to protect it.  They are literally an international pariah. 

Do you think giving him the two breakaways would work? I was thinking about that this morning. I bet Putin would claim that as a win but it's obviously not what he originally wanted. 

I don't know, honestly.  Depends on how desperate he is.  If he is cornered, he could lash out and intensify the war, or he might want to cut his losses and say all he ever wanted was protection on the western flank.  Of course his message that SC posted never says that BS line either.  It's much more imperialistic.  

Unless we think there will be a coup and he is deposed, there has to be an exit ramp for Putin.  Because all the power (read: money) is concentrated into the oligarchs who are close to Putin, and who would be financially and legally devastated if he was deposed, I think a coup is unlikely.  So then what's the next option for Ukraine/West?

I mean... he/Russia has swung back and forth more than Trump over figuring out a defense. The Defense has been marely freeing two isolated areas. Then freeing the whole of Ukraine from nenoazis. From drugusers. From Ukraine wanting to commit genocide. To now in the UN saying Ukraine was on the way to develop nukes. If I understood the russian delegate correctly. 

The truth is - Putin is 70 year old and want's his legacy to be that he was the one who restored the Russian empire by taking back, at least, Ukraine. 

Is there any chance his inner circle will take him out?  

I think it's tough for the reasons I mentioned above.  His inner circle are as corrupt as he is.  If he is taken out, then he will have to be replaced by another corrupt depot.  Otherwise the oligarchs will be in jail or against a wall pretty quickly as well.  

I hope I'm wrong. 

Ok.  I did not know if these sanctions might be making people close to him nervous.  However, I’m sure Vlad and his inner circle have billions that can’t be touched by sanctions…when this is over or maybe before it’s over, Ukraine should be given NATO membership…I’m not sure if they were offered NATO membership before Russia invaded if that would have stopped the invasion?  And now that NATO countries are supplying weaponry, NATO countries are involved far more than I anticipated…

They are being personally sanctioned, so money they have in the West is getting frozen.  Additionally, they can't travel to the West as their passports are invalid.  Known family members and children will also be prohibited from attending western schools (which is important to them).  I'm not sure if family will be restricted from travel.  But these oligarchs are being hit.  But if they think they will be at risk in Russia if Putin is deposed, then it's not happening.  If they can protect their assets, remove Putin and get the support of the military, then it could happen.  

HughFreakingDillon said:

brianlux said:

mickeyrat said:

brianlux said:

mrussel1 said:

So the question may soon become.. What escape hatch will the West give Putin to withdraw and save face?   This has to be a topic of conversation between Ukraine, US, Britain, Germany, etc.  This cannot be an unconditional surrender against Putin.  Let him keep the two breakaways?  Let him keep one?  He isn't going to disarm, obviously.  Nor will his demand for Ukraine's military to overtake the political apparatus happen either. 

May be too early to think about it, but I am.  The war isn't going well for them and the economic sanctions are hitting fast. I can't believe they are mostly cutoff from SWIFT.  I thought this would take much longer.  Sberbank is going to fail.  Market was closed today to protect it.  They are literally an international pariah. 

I've heard others suggest the same thing, that the West needs to give Putin a way to save face.  I understand that argument and, considering his power and instability of mind, it's probably for the best.  But a better solution might be for him to be deposed or eliminated in some way by his own people.  He has brought total shame to his people and country.  Much of the world is united against him.  But of course, because of that, the question becomes, how desperate and unstable has he become.

As a side note, I'm a little surprised how relative little traction this event has been gained here on AMT.  The war in Ukraine is the biggest current event to happen in the world in many years and yet only a handful of people post here while other, less pressing issues seem to get equal or greater attention.  Strange and baffling!

how little traction? wtf are you talking about.? created on Jan 25. now on 40 pages with some 1200 plus comments.

seems inordinate amount of traction.

and the world did not stop turning.

NK fired off another hey remember I'm a madman missle , other fucked up important shit is still going on.

why havent we addressed Myanmar? or the other atrocities going on in the world.

in 6 hours last week I woke up to 438 comments here. in SIX HOURS  too little traction.....

I feel like I'm getting my ass chewed. 

What, maybe 10 people posting here and most of the post from about half of those.

Sometime I just feel like fuck this place.  Angry nasty posts and stupid memes.  Fuck it.

mickey loves to chew a good ass. 

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Norway breaks with tradition - they will also send lethal aid to Ukraine

HughFreakingDillon said:

brianlux said:

mickeyrat said:

brianlux said:

mrussel1 said:

So the question may soon become.. What escape hatch will the West give Putin to withdraw and save face?   This has to be a topic of conversation between Ukraine, US, Britain, Germany, etc.  This cannot be an unconditional surrender against Putin.  Let him keep the two breakaways?  Let him keep one?  He isn't going to disarm, obviously.  Nor will his demand for Ukraine's military to overtake the political apparatus happen either. 

May be too early to think about it, but I am.  The war isn't going well for them and the economic sanctions are hitting fast. I can't believe they are mostly cutoff from SWIFT.  I thought this would take much longer.  Sberbank is going to fail.  Market was closed today to protect it.  They are literally an international pariah. 

I've heard others suggest the same thing, that the West needs to give Putin a way to save face.  I understand that argument and, considering his power and instability of mind, it's probably for the best.  But a better solution might be for him to be deposed or eliminated in some way by his own people.  He has brought total shame to his people and country.  Much of the world is united against him.  But of course, because of that, the question becomes, how desperate and unstable has he become.

As a side note, I'm a little surprised how relative little traction this event has been gained here on AMT.  The war in Ukraine is the biggest current event to happen in the world in many years and yet only a handful of people post here while other, less pressing issues seem to get equal or greater attention.  Strange and baffling!

how little traction? wtf are you talking about.? created on Jan 25. now on 40 pages with some 1200 plus comments.

seems inordinate amount of traction.

and the world did not stop turning.

NK fired off another hey remember I'm a madman missle , other fucked up important shit is still going on.

why havent we addressed Myanmar? or the other atrocities going on in the world.

in 6 hours last week I woke up to 438 comments here. in SIX HOURS  too little traction.....

I feel like I'm getting my ass chewed. 

What, maybe 10 people posting here and most of the post from about half of those.

Sometime I just feel like fuck this place.  Angry nasty posts and stupid memes.  Fuck it.

mickey loves to chew a good ass. don't take it personally brian.