Viruses / Vaccines

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  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    oftenreading said:
    tish said:
    ^ I read that because of the many and new spike mutations, the fear is that it escapes the vaccinations we have, along with increased transmission.

    The good is news is the mRNAs can be tweaked quite quickly. The bad part is is this happened because people are taking 2nd shots, boosters, and we didn't share equitably with Africa etc... 

    So rinse and repeat.

    Edit: for accuracy 


    We (the wealthy nations) are reaping what we sowed by being greedy and not sharing vaccines equally. 
    That's not actually the case in South Africa.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/new-variant-omicron-who-south-africa-b-1-1-529-1.6263826

    "Only 24 per cent of South Africa's population had been vaccinated against COVID-19, according to the Johns Hopkins coronavirus research centre. The number of shots being given per day is also relatively low, at less than 130,000. That's significantly below the government's target of 300,000.

    While the continent struggled initially to obtain sufficient doses, some countries, including South Africa, now have too much stock, with vaccine hesitancy and apathy slowing the inoculation campaign"



  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    dignin said:
    oftenreading said:
    tish said:
    ^ I read that because of the many and new spike mutations, the fear is that it escapes the vaccinations we have, along with increased transmission.

    The good is news is the mRNAs can be tweaked quite quickly. The bad part is is this happened because people are taking 2nd shots, boosters, and we didn't share equitably with Africa etc... 

    So rinse and repeat.

    Edit: for accuracy 


    We (the wealthy nations) are reaping what we sowed by being greedy and not sharing vaccines equally. 
    That's not actually the case in South Africa.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/new-variant-omicron-who-south-africa-b-1-1-529-1.6263826

    "Only 24 per cent of South Africa's population had been vaccinated against COVID-19, according to the Johns Hopkins coronavirus research centre. The number of shots being given per day is also relatively low, at less than 130,000. That's significantly below the government's target of 300,000.

    While the continent struggled initially to obtain sufficient doses, some countries, including South Africa, now have too much stock, with vaccine hesitancy and apathy slowing the inoculation campaign"




    I don't think it's accurate to say that it isn't the case in South Africa, because that only looks at a snapshot of today. The situation there and in so much of the world might have been a lot different if the vaccines were more equitably distributed right from the beginning. Now everywhere is facing a more complex situation that includes greater division and distrust, more "pandemic fatigue", and greater anger in countries that feel left behind yet again. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,602
      Southern states fall behind in vaccinating kids as pediatric infections climb

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/11/26/southern-states-lower-vaccination-rates-children-5-to-11/



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  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,887
    I did the double yesterday  booster and flu. No side effects,  not even sore arm. 

    Maybe I got placebo. 
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,602
      https://www.reuters.com/world/concerns-over-covid-variant-trigger-more-travel-curbs-southern-africa-2021-11-27/

    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    mrussel1 said:
    I did the double yesterday  booster and flu. No side effects,  not even sore arm. 

    Maybe I got placebo. 
    Sugar shot 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Zod
    Zod Posts: 10,909
    mickeyrat said:
      https://www.reuters.com/world/concerns-over-covid-variant-trigger-more-travel-curbs-southern-africa-2021-11-27/


    I think it's cute that countries still think they can stop the spread of Covid by restricting travel to the country where the virus or the variant originated.  Totally ignoring the fact the world is global and it would of already gotten footholds in other places.  If you were really worried you'd completely shut down international travel, except the transport of goods.  Otherwise all it really does is delay the inevitable.  It's like they've learned nothing in almost 2 years.
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,887
    Zod said:
    mickeyrat said:
      https://www.reuters.com/world/concerns-over-covid-variant-trigger-more-travel-curbs-southern-africa-2021-11-27/


    I think it's cute that countries still think they can stop the spread of Covid by restricting travel to the country where the virus or the variant originated.  Totally ignoring the fact the world is global and it would of already gotten footholds in other places.  If you were really worried you'd completely shut down international travel, except the transport of goods.  Otherwise all it really does is delay the inevitable.  It's like they've learned nothing in almost 2 years.
    I think there's value to delaying.  Understanding the nature of the variant and whether the current treatments are effective,  etc.
  • Smellyman
    Smellyman Asia Posts: 4,528
    Zod said:
    mickeyrat said:
      https://www.reuters.com/world/concerns-over-covid-variant-trigger-more-travel-curbs-southern-africa-2021-11-27/


    I think it's cute that countries still think they can stop the spread of Covid by restricting travel to the country where the virus or the variant originated.  Totally ignoring the fact the world is global and it would of already gotten footholds in other places.  If you were really worried you'd completely shut down international travel, except the transport of goods.  Otherwise all it really does is delay the inevitable.  It's like they've learned nothing in almost 2 years.

    It's cute that you think it's cute
  • Spunkie
    Spunkie i come from downtown. Posts: 7,095
    oftenreading said:
    mrussel1 said:
    I did the double yesterday  booster and flu. No side effects,  not even sore arm. 

    Maybe I got placebo. 
    Sugar shot 
    Yup. The hot shots we save for the incarcerated pedophiles.
    I was swimming in the Great Barrier Reef 
    Animals were hiding behind the Coral 
    Except for little Turtle
    I could swear he's trying to talk to me 
    Gurgle Gurgle
  • PJNB
    PJNB Posts: 13,890
    edited November 2021
    Zod said:
    mickeyrat said:
      https://www.reuters.com/world/concerns-over-covid-variant-trigger-more-travel-curbs-southern-africa-2021-11-27/


    I think it's cute that countries still think they can stop the spread of Covid by restricting travel to the country where the virus or the variant originated.  Totally ignoring the fact the world is global and it would of already gotten footholds in other places.  If you were really worried you'd completely shut down international travel, except the transport of goods.  Otherwise all it really does is delay the inevitable.  It's like they've learned nothing in almost 2 years.
    Punishing countries that are testing for this and identifying it while staying open to others that do not put in the effort to properly test is about as ridiculous as it gets as far as covid restrictions get. It tells countries to not find these things out and if they do they will suffer financially cause of it. 
  • nicknyr15
    nicknyr15 Posts: 9,278
    I am shocked to read there were more Covid deaths in 2021 vs 2020. How? There was no vaccine last year so i can’t fathom the “unvaccinated” argument. Are masks more effective than the vaccine? 
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,887
    nicknyr15 said:
    I am shocked to read there were more Covid deaths in 2021 vs 2020. How? There was no vaccine last year so i can’t fathom the “unvaccinated” argument. Are masks more effective than the vaccine? 
    I wouldn't interpret it that way.  First, vaccines were not widely available until April/May/June.  So you have at least a third of the year right there without a vaccine.  Second, Delta variant was more contagious, more likely to send one to an ICU and more deadly than the original.  This is consistent with the Spanish Flu pandemic of 1918-20 where year two was much more deadly than year one.  https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/delta-variant-has-235-percent-higher-risk-of-icu-admission-than-original-virus#Increased-risk-from-the-Delta-variant

    punchline:  However, the highest risks were from the Delta variant. In the Delta cases, there was a 108% increase in the risk of hospitalization, a 235% increased risk of ICU admission, and a 133% higher risk of death, compared with the original variant.
  • Spunkie
    Spunkie i come from downtown. Posts: 7,095
    nicknyr15 said:
    I am shocked to read there were more Covid deaths in 2021 vs 2020. How? There was no vaccine last year so i can’t fathom the “unvaccinated” argument. Are masks more effective than the vaccine? 
    My educated guess is yes, currently that's likely true.

    I was swimming in the Great Barrier Reef 
    Animals were hiding behind the Coral 
    Except for little Turtle
    I could swear he's trying to talk to me 
    Gurgle Gurgle
  • Spunkie
    Spunkie i come from downtown. Posts: 7,095
    Anyone think it's pointless to use kids 5-11 vaccines when they become available in BC in the next couple weeks given that Delta peaked in my small town during summer tourism?

    Not much news about how this formula is being tested and changed for the young ones.
    I was swimming in the Great Barrier Reef 
    Animals were hiding behind the Coral 
    Except for little Turtle
    I could swear he's trying to talk to me 
    Gurgle Gurgle
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,887
    tish said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    I am shocked to read there were more Covid deaths in 2021 vs 2020. How? There was no vaccine last year so i can’t fathom the “unvaccinated” argument. Are masks more effective than the vaccine? 
    My educated guess is yes, currently that's likely true.

    No offense,  but that's not a very educated guess.  The scientific evidence is overwhelming that the vaccine reduces hospitalization and death compared to no vaccine,  regardless of wearing masks.  The evidence is also clear that delta is worse than alpha.  Again,  more powerful year 2 mutations is exactly what occurred with the Spanish flu. 
  • Spunkie
    Spunkie i come from downtown. Posts: 7,095
    edited November 2021
    mrussel1 said:
    tish said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    I am shocked to read there were more Covid deaths in 2021 vs 2020. How? There was no vaccine last year so i can’t fathom the “unvaccinated” argument. Are masks more effective than the vaccine? 
    My educated guess is yes, currently that's likely true.

    No offense,  but that's not a very educated guess.  The scientific evidence is overwhelming that the vaccine reduces hospitalization and death compared to no vaccine,  regardless of wearing masks.  The evidence is also clear that delta is worse than alpha.  Again,  more powerful year 2 mutations is exactly what occurred with the Spanish flu. 
    Ya, your right, that was true when Delta came along and the first generation vaccines were still helpful. My point is when Omicron hits, use a better mask until we know more about immunity, natural or vacvine primed.

      Thoughts on this suggestion from  the following author....???


    Edit: Misspelled omicron. Anyone taught the Greek alphabet in school? Not me :)
    Post edited by Spunkie on
    I was swimming in the Great Barrier Reef 
    Animals were hiding behind the Coral 
    Except for little Turtle
    I could swear he's trying to talk to me 
    Gurgle Gurgle
  • nicknyr15
    nicknyr15 Posts: 9,278
    mrussel1 said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    I am shocked to read there were more Covid deaths in 2021 vs 2020. How? There was no vaccine last year so i can’t fathom the “unvaccinated” argument. Are masks more effective than the vaccine? 
    I wouldn't interpret it that way.  First, vaccines were not widely available until April/May/June.  So you have at least a third of the year right there without a vaccine.  Second, Delta variant was more contagious, more likely to send one to an ICU and more deadly than the original.  This is consistent with the Spanish Flu pandemic of 1918-20 where year two was much more deadly than year one.  https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/delta-variant-has-235-percent-higher-risk-of-icu-admission-than-original-virus#Increased-risk-from-the-Delta-variant

    punchline:  However, the highest risks were from the Delta variant. In the Delta cases, there was a 108% increase in the risk of hospitalization, a 235% increased risk of ICU admission, and a 133% higher risk of death, compared with the original variant.
    Ok. Thanks for the info. Helped ease my mind a little. 
  • PJNB
    PJNB Posts: 13,890
    tish said:
    Anyone think it's pointless to use kids 5-11 vaccines when they become available in BC in the next couple weeks given that Delta peaked in my small town during summer tourism?

    Not much news about how this formula is being tested and changed for the young ones.
    Not sure about pointless but I am in no rush to get my kids vaccinated with how many breakthrough cases there already are from Delta as well as kids have very few symptoms for the most part as it is. 
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    tish said:
    Anyone think it's pointless to use kids 5-11 vaccines when they become available in BC in the next couple weeks given that Delta peaked in my small town during summer tourism?

    Not much news about how this formula is being tested and changed for the young ones.

    Not pointless at all. Vaccinating kids will reduce the reservoir of infection in the communities. By late October kids under 12 made up 20% of the cases in BC, and I saw recently that covid is now within the top 10 causes of death for kids.

    The formula doesn't need to be changed for children. With virtually all of the other vaccines in the usual schedule, kids get the same version of the vaccine that adults get, unless there is a different mode of delivery (like the nasal flu vaccine). Kids get the same vaccine for measles, rubella, etc. They get a different version for Hepatitis B but the only difference is dose. Their immune system isn't really all that different from that of adults; they have all the same components, it's just that some are more active, because their bodies are naive to more new infectious agent, and some are less active, since they don't have that prior exposure to work from. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
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