The all-purpose heavy duty Climate Chaos thread (sprinkled with hope).

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Comments

  • Meltdown99
    Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    Canadians like to think our PM is green?…lol

    The nimrod flies everywhere even though his riding is in Montreal an easy train ride from Ottawa…
     The nimrod is spending 12 plus billion on a pipeline through the Canadian Rocky Mountains against many indigenous people’s wishes and the land the pipeline is running through is also unceeded territory…

    yup he’s a fraud in every sense of the word.
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    Meltdown99 said:
    brianlux said:
    Greta nails it:
    "Build back better. Blah, blah, blah. Green economy. Blah blah blah. Net zero by 2050. Blah, blah, blah,” she said in a speech to the Youth4Climate summit in Milan, Italy, on Tuesday. “This is all we hear from our so-called leaders. Words that sound great but so far have not led to action. Our hopes and ambitions drown in their empty promises.”


    Perhaps you and her are looking for leaders in all the wrong places…politicians are not leaders, all politicians do is leach off others productivity.

    Ford made an announcement yesterday investing 11 billion into electric car manufacturing and have promised that 40 percent of their vehicles will be electric by 2030…



    Agreed about politicians.  The only problem is, they are the ones calling the shots (or at least being coerced to do so).  As for a true climate change leader... well, Greta is doing well and making a big impact!

    As for 11 billion electric cars, that an OK start and better than none, but not a solution.  Imagine the amount of environmental destruction that will occur as a result of building 11 billion electric cars.  The batteries alone require all sorts of metals, rare earths, and toxic chemicals.  And then there is the amount of water needed to produce any vehicle.  More cars are not the solution, just a different form of the same problem.  Not as bad as internal combustion, true, but not nearly enough of a solution.  Besides which, 40 is well less than half.  Once again, half-assed measure to a problem that cannot but possible get much worse without stronger measures.  
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    edited September 2021
    static111 said:
    brianlux said:
    Greta nails it:
    "Build back better. Blah, blah, blah. Green economy. Blah blah blah. Net zero by 2050. Blah, blah, blah,” she said in a speech to the Youth4Climate summit in Milan, Italy, on Tuesday. “This is all we hear from our so-called leaders. Words that sound great but so far have not led to action. Our hopes and ambitions drown in their empty promises.”


    Can someone explain the Thunberg hype to me? What is she saying and doing that hasn't been said and done by tens of thousands of advocates and experts of all ages since forever (the 70's)?

    Few is any have reached as many as here with her words.  How can you not see that?  I am one of those advocated from as far back as the late 70's and I have been an advocate for solutions to environmental problems including global warming for over 40 years.  How many people have I reach?  Five, maybe?  Doesn't mean I've been wasting my time but I have not reached millions like she has.  That's not hype.  That's called "making a difference".  I'm proud of her for that.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,668
    brianlux said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    brianlux said:
    Greta nails it:
    "Build back better. Blah, blah, blah. Green economy. Blah blah blah. Net zero by 2050. Blah, blah, blah,” she said in a speech to the Youth4Climate summit in Milan, Italy, on Tuesday. “This is all we hear from our so-called leaders. Words that sound great but so far have not led to action. Our hopes and ambitions drown in their empty promises.”


    Perhaps you and her are looking for leaders in all the wrong places…politicians are not leaders, all politicians do is leach off others productivity.

    Ford made an announcement yesterday investing 11 billion into electric car manufacturing and have promised that 40 percent of their vehicles will be electric by 2030…



    Agreed about politicians.  The only problem is, they are the ones calling the shots (or at least being coerced to do so).  As for a true climate change leader... well, Greta is doing well and making a big impact!

    As for 11 billion electric cars, that an OK start and better than none, but not a solution.  Imagine the amount of environmental destruction that will occur as a result of building 11 billion electric cars.  The batteries alone require all sorts of metals, rare earths, and toxic chemicals.  And then there is the amount of water needed to produce any vehicle.  More cars are not the solution, just a different form of the same problem.  Not as bad as internal combustion, true, but not nearly enough of a solution.  Besides which, 40 is well less than half.  Once again, half-assed measure to a problem that cannot but possible get much worse without stronger measures.  
    $11B spent on developing the e-car industry, not 11 billion electric cars. ;)

    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    PJ_Soul said:
    brianlux said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    brianlux said:
    Greta nails it:
    "Build back better. Blah, blah, blah. Green economy. Blah blah blah. Net zero by 2050. Blah, blah, blah,” she said in a speech to the Youth4Climate summit in Milan, Italy, on Tuesday. “This is all we hear from our so-called leaders. Words that sound great but so far have not led to action. Our hopes and ambitions drown in their empty promises.”


    Perhaps you and her are looking for leaders in all the wrong places…politicians are not leaders, all politicians do is leach off others productivity.

    Ford made an announcement yesterday investing 11 billion into electric car manufacturing and have promised that 40 percent of their vehicles will be electric by 2030…



    Agreed about politicians.  The only problem is, they are the ones calling the shots (or at least being coerced to do so).  As for a true climate change leader... well, Greta is doing well and making a big impact!

    As for 11 billion electric cars, that an OK start and better than none, but not a solution.  Imagine the amount of environmental destruction that will occur as a result of building 11 billion electric cars.  The batteries alone require all sorts of metals, rare earths, and toxic chemicals.  And then there is the amount of water needed to produce any vehicle.  More cars are not the solution, just a different form of the same problem.  Not as bad as internal combustion, true, but not nearly enough of a solution.  Besides which, 40 is well less than half.  Once again, half-assed measure to a problem that cannot but possible get much worse without stronger measures.  
    $11B spent on developing the e-car industry, not 11 billion electric cars. ;)


    :lol: 
    I'm laughing at myself!  Truth is, I really do need to make an appointment with my optometrist!  Otherwise I'm going to appear to be spreading rumors!
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Meltdown99
    Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    brianlux said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    brianlux said:
    Greta nails it:
    "Build back better. Blah, blah, blah. Green economy. Blah blah blah. Net zero by 2050. Blah, blah, blah,” she said in a speech to the Youth4Climate summit in Milan, Italy, on Tuesday. “This is all we hear from our so-called leaders. Words that sound great but so far have not led to action. Our hopes and ambitions drown in their empty promises.”


    Perhaps you and her are looking for leaders in all the wrong places…politicians are not leaders, all politicians do is leach off others productivity.

    Ford made an announcement yesterday investing 11 billion into electric car manufacturing and have promised that 40 percent of their vehicles will be electric by 2030…



    Agreed about politicians.  The only problem is, they are the ones calling the shots (or at least being coerced to do so).  As for a true climate change leader... well, Greta is doing well and making a big impact!

    As for 11 billion electric cars, that an OK start and better than none, but not a solution.  Imagine the amount of environmental destruction that will occur as a result of building 11 billion electric cars.  The batteries alone require all sorts of metals, rare earths, and toxic chemicals.  And then there is the amount of water needed to produce any vehicle.  More cars are not the solution, just a different form of the same problem.  Not as bad as internal combustion, true, but not nearly enough of a solution.  Besides which, 40 is well less than half.  Once again, half-assed measure to a problem that cannot but possible get much worse without stronger measures.  
    Sorry.  They are investing 11 billion dollars.  Not building 11 billion cars…

    I read that the investment will include an on-site recycling facility that will capture 90% of battery material and be re-used.

    I give them credit.

    I look at it this way, electric vehicles are still in the early stages of the product, relatively speaking…I just assume they will and can build better the more they invest…


    Ford, SK to invest $11.4 bln to add electric F-150 plant, three battery factories


    Give Peas A Chance…
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    Meltdown99 said:
    brianlux said:
    Meltdown99 said:
    brianlux said:
    Greta nails it:
    "Build back better. Blah, blah, blah. Green economy. Blah blah blah. Net zero by 2050. Blah, blah, blah,” she said in a speech to the Youth4Climate summit in Milan, Italy, on Tuesday. “This is all we hear from our so-called leaders. Words that sound great but so far have not led to action. Our hopes and ambitions drown in their empty promises.”


    Perhaps you and her are looking for leaders in all the wrong places…politicians are not leaders, all politicians do is leach off others productivity.

    Ford made an announcement yesterday investing 11 billion into electric car manufacturing and have promised that 40 percent of their vehicles will be electric by 2030…



    Agreed about politicians.  The only problem is, they are the ones calling the shots (or at least being coerced to do so).  As for a true climate change leader... well, Greta is doing well and making a big impact!

    As for 11 billion electric cars, that an OK start and better than none, but not a solution.  Imagine the amount of environmental destruction that will occur as a result of building 11 billion electric cars.  The batteries alone require all sorts of metals, rare earths, and toxic chemicals.  And then there is the amount of water needed to produce any vehicle.  More cars are not the solution, just a different form of the same problem.  Not as bad as internal combustion, true, but not nearly enough of a solution.  Besides which, 40 is well less than half.  Once again, half-assed measure to a problem that cannot but possible get much worse without stronger measures.  
    Sorry.  They are investing 11 billion dollars.  Not building 11 billion cars…

    I read that the investment will include an on-site recycling facility that will capture 90% of battery material and be re-used.

    I give them credit.

    I look at it this way, electric vehicles are still in the early stages of the product, relatively speaking…I just assume they will and can build better the more they invest…


    Ford, SK to invest $11.4 bln to add electric F-150 plant, three battery factories



    Zero waste. That sounds great!
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • jpgoegel
    jpgoegel Posts: 415
    its been a year and 4 months in the making (town permit and utility company delays) but as of today I'm fully electrical self-sufficient.   small pittance to the whole world but hopefully more and more people shift away from fossil fuels.   solar isnt perfect but if you can, why not
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    jpgoegel said:
    its been a year and 4 months in the making (town permit and utility company delays) but as of today I'm fully electrical self-sufficient.   small pittance to the whole world but hopefully more and more people shift away from fossil fuels.   solar isnt perfect but if you can, why not
    it all counts for something. you can't get everyone on board without anyone. 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    jpgoegel said:
    its been a year and 4 months in the making (town permit and utility company delays) but as of today I'm fully electrical self-sufficient.   small pittance to the whole world but hopefully more and more people shift away from fossil fuels.   solar isnt perfect but if you can, why not

    Well done! 
    My dream home would have a combination of solar, small wind generator (as long as I could get one that doesn't kill birds) and with a creek on the property for water and small turbine power.  At this point, not likely to happen.  But if I had the means and half as many years on me, at this point in time and history I would go all out to make it happen. 
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    The other side of electric cars.  An article forward to me on FB.  Worth considering.  If this information is wrong/inaccurate,  I would certainly like to know how and why.

    REALITY CHECK -This is the elephant in the room with electric vehicles. Our residential infrastructure cannot bear the load. A home charging system for a Tesla requires 75 amp service. The average house is equipped with 100 amp service. On our small street (approximately 25 homes), the electrical infrastructure would be unable to carry more than three houses with a single Tesla each.
    In case you were thinking of buying hybrid or an electric car...
    Ever since the advent of electric cars, the REAL cost per mile of those things has never been discussed. All you ever heard was the mpg in terms of gasoline, with nary a mention of the cost of electricity to run it.
    At a neighborhood BBQ I was talking to a neighbor, a BC Hydro Executive. I asked him how that renewable thing was doing. He laughed, then got serious.
    If you really intend to adopt electric vehicles, he pointed out, you had to face certain realities. For example, a home charging system for a Tesla requires 75 amp service. The average house is equipped with 100 amp service. On our small street (approximately 25 homes), the electrical infrastructure would be unable to carry more than three houses with a single Tesla each. For even half the homes to have electric vehicles, the system would be wildly over-loaded.
    This is the elephant in the room with electric vehicles. Our residential infrastructure cannot bear the load. So, as our genius elected officials promote this nonsense, not only are we being urged to buy these things and replace our reliable, cheap generating systems with expensive new windmills and solar cells, but we will also have to renovate our entire delivery system! This later "investment" will not be revealed until we're so far down this dead end road that it will be presented with an 'OOPS...!' and a shrug.
    If you want to argue with a green person over cars that are eco-friendly, just read the following. Note: If you ARE a green person, read it anyway. It's enlightening.
    Eric test drove the Chevy Volt at the invitation of General Motors and he writes, "For four days in a row, the fully charged battery lasted only 25 miles before the Volt switched to the reserve gasoline engine." Eric calculated the car got 30 mpg including the 25 miles it ran on the battery. So, the range including the 9-gallon gas tank and the 16 kwh battery is approximately 270 miles.
    It will take you 4.5 hours to drive 270 miles at 60 mph. Then add 10 hours to charge the battery and you have a total trip time of 14.5 hours. In a typical road trip your average speed (including charging time) would be 20 mph.
    According to General Motors, the Volt battery holds 16 kwh of electricity. It takes a full 10 hours to charge a drained battery. The cost for the electricity to charge the Volt is never mentioned, so I looked up what I pay for electricity.
    I pay approximately (it varies with amount used and the seasons) $1.16 per kwh. 16 kwh x $1.16 per kwh = $18.56 to charge the battery. $18.56 per charge divided by 25 miles = $0.74 per mile to operate the Volt using the battery. Compare this to a similar size car with a gasoline engine that gets only 32 mpg. $3.19 per gallon divided by 32 Mpg = $0.10 per mile.
    The gasoline powered car costs about $25,000 while the Volt costs $46,000 plus. So the Government wants us to pay twice as much for a car, that costs more than seven times as much to run, and takes three times longer to drive across the country.
    WAKE UP NORTH AMERICA!!!!!!!....copied from John Koth

    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,408
    I dont know about that. I doubt there's a limit to how many houses in a neighborhood could be permitted for panel upgrade. think its a question 2 or 3 phase service within a home.

    location may factor in I suppose.
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    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
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  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    mickeyrat said:
    I dont know about that. I doubt there's a limit to how many houses in a neighborhood could be permitted for panel upgrade. think its a question 2 or 3 phase service within a home.

    location may factor in I suppose.

    But let's say there was no limit and all of the houses in the neighbor were permitted and retrofitted for upgrades--  The question still remains (and maybe more so), could the infrastructure bear the load?
    Location would surely matter, of course.  Much a California already faces power grid failure during the summer months.  We've experienced black outs and rolling black outs already over the last few years during heat waves, some that have lasted for days.  Add to that stress on the power grid with even just another 10% to 20% of cars replaced by electrics and down goes the system.  Is the grid able to hold up when more cars go electric?  I don't know.  Does anyone know?  Has any or all of this been factored in?  I think some areas at least (particularly high population states) are in for some serious trouble with all of this.  Hopefully not.  We'll see. 
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Zod
    Zod Posts: 10,901
    I don't entirely get it.  The panel in your house is different than the distribution to your neighborhood, so those are seperate arguments.  The other is even if you have a 200amp panel, it doesn't mean your drawing that much power all the time.   It's like internet. You might have a gigabit internet connection but how often do you run it all out.  Some people might need to do a full charge over night... but most people probably drove less than 50km and would only need a short top up kind of thing.

    While there might be a cost to electric cars, (ie the cost of upgrading home infrastucutre and electric delivery), what's the current alternative?  Once again, its no, that can't possible work, so why try.  Then we keep burning dinosaurs and the planet becomes uninhabitable for people.

    At least here in BC we have that big dam being built up north that everyone things was a waste of money.  I do agree with the poster above me.  Where do they plan to get the extra power from?   I assume electric companies can upgrade the grid, but generating the power, and doing it cleanly, that could create more challenges.


  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,408
    brianlux said:
    mickeyrat said:
    I dont know about that. I doubt there's a limit to how many houses in a neighborhood could be permitted for panel upgrade. think its a question 2 or 3 phase service within a home.

    location may factor in I suppose.

    But let's say there was no limit and all of the houses in the neighbor were permitted and retrofitted for upgrades--  The question still remains (and maybe more so), could the infrastructure bear the load?
    Location would surely matter, of course.  Much a California already faces power grid failure during the summer months.  We've experienced black outs and rolling black outs already over the last few years during heat waves, some that have lasted for days.  Add to that stress on the power grid with even just another 10% to 20% of cars replaced by electrics and down goes the system.  Is the grid able to hold up when more cars go electric?  I don't know.  Does anyone know?  Has any or all of this been factored in?  I think some areas at least (particularly high population states) are in for some serious trouble with all of this.  Hopefully not.  We'll see. 

    well I do believe these very things are a part of Biden's larger package.   
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    mickeyrat said:
    brianlux said:
    mickeyrat said:
    I dont know about that. I doubt there's a limit to how many houses in a neighborhood could be permitted for panel upgrade. think its a question 2 or 3 phase service within a home.

    location may factor in I suppose.

    But let's say there was no limit and all of the houses in the neighbor were permitted and retrofitted for upgrades--  The question still remains (and maybe more so), could the infrastructure bear the load?
    Location would surely matter, of course.  Much a California already faces power grid failure during the summer months.  We've experienced black outs and rolling black outs already over the last few years during heat waves, some that have lasted for days.  Add to that stress on the power grid with even just another 10% to 20% of cars replaced by electrics and down goes the system.  Is the grid able to hold up when more cars go electric?  I don't know.  Does anyone know?  Has any or all of this been factored in?  I think some areas at least (particularly high population states) are in for some serious trouble with all of this.  Hopefully not.  We'll see. 

    well I do believe these very things are a part of Biden's larger package.   

    Yes, and for the most part I like Biden's desire to upgrade our infrastructure.  It certainly needs it!  But good intentions/ road to hell and all that come into play.  My concern with Biden's plans are regarding viability.   This biggest issue: Where do all these resources come from with out ravaging what's left of the natural world, and are we capable of generating the increase in energy to accomplish all these things? 
    Don't get me wrong, it's not that I'm against alternative energy and "green solutions" and all that.  I have advocated those things for many years.  But I'm also beginning to understand how, in some ways, I have been rather naive about many of those noble propositions. 
    In 2021, on July 29th, humans had consumed all of the resources  the planet had generated for the year  (this refers to what is called "earth Overshoot Day as explained here:  https://www.overshootday.org/ ).  We have yet to find a way to amass resources and energy sources that don't over-tax the planet.   This year, for 5 months beginning in August, we will be consuming resources the earth has will not be able to compensate for through natural production.
    Somehow, we need to come up with better solutions.  And hopefully sooner than later.


    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,408
    kill half of the humans and burn them for fuel. problem solved
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,372
    mickeyrat said:
    kill half of the humans and burn them for fuel. problem solved
    Easy there Thanos...
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,372
    So Positive news of the environment.

    Subaru built a waste free plant in NA and it still has zero landfill.
    https://www.raffertysubaru.com/blog/2020/august/5/subaru-s-zero-waste-manufacturing-plant.htm

    Lamborghini, supercar manufacturer is focusing on electric cars for the future and by 2024 will be all electric.
    https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a36441763/lamborghini-lineup-hybrid-electric-future/
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    where is the tech at with regards to how long (distance and/or time) a charge on a car will last? A buddy has a tesla, and his parents live 3 hours away. When he goes to visit, he barely makes it there (no charging stations in between in the vast emptiness of the prairies), and it has to charge overnight. that doesn't sound feasible for long distance travel at this point. 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




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