Afghanistan

Ledbetterman10 said:

mcgruff10 said:

I think the jury is still out on if the Kabul evacuation will look like the fall of Saigon.  We still have time to turn this around and get people out.  

That’s fair. But the optics are comparable so far. 

mcgruff10 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Merkin Baller said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Merkin Baller said:

Blaming Biden for this mess is fucking pathetic. 

Well he did say just last week, when asked if a Taliban takeover was imminent, that it wouldn't happen because the Afghan army "has 300,000 troops and are as well-equipped as any army in the world." Well it did happen, without any resistance. And he also said that the withdrawal would be nothing like Saigon at the end of Vietnam, but it very much has been (maybe worse); an emergency evacuation of the U.S. embassy. Chaos at the airport, including Afghan's clinging to a airplane as it takes off. 

As far as the entire clusterfuck of this war goes, the Bush, Obama, Trump, and Biden administrations all share in some blame, as do both political parties. But execution of the withdrawal, that's on the current administration. Frankly, for those of you that love Biden, it's not really something to be concerned with, or to be overly defensive of him for. This war has been 20 years of bad decisions by everyone else, what's wrong with a couple more bad decisions at the end by him

The guy followed through on bringing the troops home, which is what America wanted. Now conservatives are pissing and moaning about how it went down? Color me shocked. (as if American conservatives give a rat's ass about Afghani Muslims. Please) 

This would have been a cluster fuck in 2012, 2017 or 2024. At least the guy isn't up there making excuses for the mess. 

"The buck stops here." It was refreshing to hear that after the last 5 years of bullshit excuses and finger pointing. I don't love Biden, I don't even like him; but compared to his predecessor? He'll do. 

You have to be kidding. He was totally pointing fingers by blaming the Afghan military. Plus he was deflecting, as you are, by focusing on bringing the troops home (the troops have been gradually coming home for years now) and not talking about the botched exit. I mean, if bringing the troops home deserves praise, it was Trump that brokered the deal, and if he was re-elected, he'd be the one following through on it now (and probably botching the hell out of it even worse than Biden). 

Here, watch this guy.  He knows this stuff better than me, you, Biden, or Trump.....

https://twitter.com/Another_Europe/status/1427609042415915009?s=20

https://twitter.com/MaddowBlog/status/1427451027004006405?s=20

It does like the Afghan army is the one to blame for all of this.  Was there any battles to slow the taliban down
in recent weeks?

Ledbetterman10 said:

Merkin Baller said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Merkin Baller said:

Blaming Biden for this mess is fucking pathetic. 

Well he did say just last week, when asked if a Taliban takeover was imminent, that it wouldn't happen because the Afghan army "has 300,000 troops and are as well-equipped as any army in the world." Well it did happen, without any resistance. And he also said that the withdrawal would be nothing like Saigon at the end of Vietnam, but it very much has been (maybe worse); an emergency evacuation of the U.S. embassy. Chaos at the airport, including Afghan's clinging to a airplane as it takes off. 

As far as the entire clusterfuck of this war goes, the Bush, Obama, Trump, and Biden administrations all share in some blame, as do both political parties. But execution of the withdrawal, that's on the current administration. Frankly, for those of you that love Biden, it's not really something to be concerned with, or to be overly defensive of him for. This war has been 20 years of bad decisions by everyone else, what's wrong with a couple more bad decisions at the end by him

The guy followed through on bringing the troops home, which is what America wanted. Now conservatives are pissing and moaning about how it went down? Color me shocked. (as if American conservatives give a rat's ass about Afghani Muslims. Please) 

This would have been a cluster fuck in 2012, 2017 or 2024. At least the guy isn't up there making excuses for the mess. 

"The buck stops here." It was refreshing to hear that after the last 5 years of bullshit excuses and finger pointing. I don't love Biden, I don't even like him; but compared to his predecessor? He'll do. 

You have to be kidding. He was totally pointing fingers by blaming the Afghan military. Plus he was deflecting, as you are, by focusing on bringing the troops home (the troops have been gradually coming home for years now) and not talking about the botched exit. I mean, if bringing the troops home deserves praise, it was Trump that brokered the deal, and if he was re-elected, he'd be the one following through on it now (and probably botching the hell out of it even worse than Biden). 

Here, watch this guy.  He knows this stuff better than me, you, Biden, or Trump.....

https://twitter.com/Another_Europe/status/1427609042415915009?s=20

https://twitter.com/MaddowBlog/status/1427451027004006405?s=20

mcgruff10 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Merkin Baller said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Merkin Baller said:

Blaming Biden for this mess is fucking pathetic. 

Well he did say just last week, when asked if a Taliban takeover was imminent, that it wouldn't happen because the Afghan army "has 300,000 troops and are as well-equipped as any army in the world." Well it did happen, without any resistance. And he also said that the withdrawal would be nothing like Saigon at the end of Vietnam, but it very much has been (maybe worse); an emergency evacuation of the U.S. embassy. Chaos at the airport, including Afghan's clinging to a airplane as it takes off. 

As far as the entire clusterfuck of this war goes, the Bush, Obama, Trump, and Biden administrations all share in some blame, as do both political parties. But execution of the withdrawal, that's on the current administration. Frankly, for those of you that love Biden, it's not really something to be concerned with, or to be overly defensive of him for. This war has been 20 years of bad decisions by everyone else, what's wrong with a couple more bad decisions at the end by him

The guy followed through on bringing the troops home, which is what America wanted. Now conservatives are pissing and moaning about how it went down? Color me shocked. (as if American conservatives give a rat's ass about Afghani Muslims. Please) 

This would have been a cluster fuck in 2012, 2017 or 2024. At least the guy isn't up there making excuses for the mess. 

"The buck stops here." It was refreshing to hear that after the last 5 years of bullshit excuses and finger pointing. I don't love Biden, I don't even like him; but compared to his predecessor? He'll do. 

You have to be kidding. He was totally pointing fingers by blaming the Afghan military. Plus he was deflecting, as you are, by focusing on bringing the troops home (the troops have been gradually coming home for years now) and not talking about the botched exit. I mean, if bringing the troops home deserves praise, it was Trump that brokered the deal, and if he was re-elected, he'd be the one following through on it now (and probably botching the hell out of it even worse than Biden). 

Here, watch this guy.  He knows this stuff better than me, you, Biden, or Trump.....

https://twitter.com/Another_Europe/status/1427609042415915009?s=20

https://twitter.com/MaddowBlog/status/1427451027004006405?s=20

It does like the Afghan army is the one to blame for all of this.  Were there any battles to slow the taliban down
in recent weeks?

The Juggler said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

The Juggler said:

Seems like there was little to no bloodshed. What was the casualty situation in Saigon?

Politically for Biden---he was stupid for making those comments last week and optics of such a quick reclamation by the Taliban do not look good at all. But the overwhelming majority of Americans wanted this to be over asap so I don't think it will have lasting damage. It's not like people immediately think about Gerald Ford when someone mentions the end of Vietnam. 

Two U.S. Marines in Saigon....killed by a rocket. Five deaths at the Kabul airport. 

The no-bloodshed thing is another thing that makes it comparable. The Taliban (or back then, the North Vietnamese) marching in, basically saying "leave or there will be bloodshed," and the U.S. scrambling to leave. 

Yeah...I guess. No US casualties this time around helps. The image of the plane taking off the those people chasing after was certainly heartbreaking though.

But again...politically, I don't get a sense that people blame Gerald Ford for Vietnam though. When I think of Vietnam I think of Nixon and LBJ primarily. People were more than fed up with that war by that point. I think this is similar in that respect. 


I was reading earlier they hope to have close to 30,000 evacuated by the end of the month? If that goes smoothly, could help change the current perception. 

HughFreakingDillon said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

fucking disgusting.

https://twitter.com/laurenboebert/status/1427373090733019140?s=20

there is something seriously wrong with her and MTG

gimmesometruth27 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

fucking disgusting.

https://twitter.com/laurenboebert/status/1427373090733019140?s=20

there is something seriously wrong with her and MTG

yep

gimmesometruth27 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

fucking disgusting.

there is something seriously wrong with her and MTG

yep

HughFreakingDillon said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

fucking disgusting.

https://twitter.com/laurenboebert/status/1427373090733019140?s=20

there is something seriously wrong with her and MTG

The Juggler said:

cincybearcat said:

tempo_n_groove said:

So Biden follows through Tumps plan to pull out and now he gets blasted for it?  I'm sure Trump would have been killed for this too.  

Everyone as American tax payers should be angry that we spent 20 years there and didn't make a friggin dent.

Yeah it crazy. Biden deserves all the criticism for how the pull out “plan” went. That’s on him.

The crazy thing is if trunk had done this and this was the effect you’d have all the same things being said…just the people saying it would change. In reality, trump was the most right if the recent presidents about Afghanistan.  Crazy huh? 

What do you mean? This was essentially his plan he put in motion last year. I'm willing to be most of the 5,000 Taliban prisoners Trump agreed to release last year are now part of the group that is controlling Kabul. Biden's mistake was following through on Trump's plan.

 

I still don't understand why we could not have left a thousand or two troops there or withdrawn them down at a much slower pace, considering we have tens of thousands of troops in other places all over the world.