The coronavirus

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  • 23scidoo
    23scidoo Thessaloniki,Greece Posts: 19,946
    23scidoo said:
    23scidoo said:

    I only have the patience to debunk one conspiracy theory a day, so for today it's this one, since it's a particularly ridiculous yet dangerous one.

    In the "study" this article describes, the authors compared two groups - those over 65 who died at some point in the weeks after getting a covid vaccine, and those over 65 who died of covid. The first number is larger than the second, so they concluded that more over-65s died of the vaccine than of covid. 

    It should be immediately obvious what is wrong with that conclusion - dying after you get a particular vaccine does not equate to dying because you got that particular vaccine. People die of lots of things, and people over 65 die at a higher rate of lots of things. 

    The correct comparators would be all-cause mortality in people over 65 who got the vaccine and those who didn't, matched for comparable health status, age, sex, etc. 

    Given their comment about "long term side effects", the authors are obviously setting this up to later claim that every death after vaccine is a vaccine-related death, no matter how long after. 
    ''People die of lots of things, and people over 65 die at a higher rate of lots of things''..
    Have you heard any other cause of death lately??
    Here, everybody die from covid..
    Why yes, I have heard of other causes of death. Could be because I work in a hospital, but that’s likely a minor point. 
    Not here..
    Athens 2006. Dusseldorf 2007. Berlin 2009. Venice 2010. Amsterdam 1 2012. Amsterdam 1+2 2014. Buenos Aires 2015.
    Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
    EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.

    I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    23scidoo said:
    And to be clear for good, i'm not against the vaccine..
    but i just don't believe 100% what the news said..
    i know doctors said, they are not sure for the vaccine..
    how can i or can you??..
    If you’re not against the vaccine, maybe consider not posting links from shitty, anti-science,  antivaxxer sites 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • PJPOWER
    PJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    edited March 2021
    23scidoo said:
    And to be clear for good, i'm not against the vaccine..
    but i just don't believe 100% what the news said..
    i know doctors said, they are not sure for the vaccine..
    how can i or can you??..
    It is perfectly fine to be skeptical of news reports, but that statement gets invalidated when you post a link from a media source that is a known offender of spreading false vaccination information.  
    Personally, I distrust the media too, but I try and put extra scrutiny on vetting sources that make huge claims like the one you posted saying that the vaccines are killing more than the virus.  A SIMPLE google search on that sources reputation leads one to see that the claim is most likely false.
    Why would you choose to pick that one out of the many proven trustworthy sources stating otherwise?
  • PJPOWER
    PJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    23scidoo said:
    And to be clear for good, i'm not against the vaccine..
    but i just don't believe 100% what the news said..
    i know doctors said, they are not sure for the vaccine..
    how can i or can you??..
    If you’re not against the vaccine, maybe consider not posting links from shitty, anti-science,  antivaxxer sites 
    Exactly
  • 23scidoo
    23scidoo Thessaloniki,Greece Posts: 19,946
    23scidoo said:
    And to be clear for good, i'm not against the vaccine..
    but i just don't believe 100% what the news said..
    i know doctors said, they are not sure for the vaccine..
    how can i or can you??..
    If you’re not against the vaccine, maybe consider not posting links from shitty, anti-science,  antivaxxer sites 

    People can believe and comment as they wish..i have see that lot of times here..anyway..
    Athens 2006. Dusseldorf 2007. Berlin 2009. Venice 2010. Amsterdam 1 2012. Amsterdam 1+2 2014. Buenos Aires 2015.
    Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
    EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.

    I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    edited March 2021
    23scidoo said:
    23scidoo said:
    And to be clear for good, i'm not against the vaccine..
    but i just don't believe 100% what the news said..
    i know doctors said, they are not sure for the vaccine..
    how can i or can you??..
    If you’re not against the vaccine, maybe consider not posting links from shitty, anti-science,  antivaxxer sites 

    People can believe and comment as they wish..i have see that lot of times here..anyway..
    Of course you can comment as you wish, but if you wish those comments to be taken seriously, then consider your sources. 

    Deliberately spreading misinformation and falsehoods is not a great look. 
    Post edited by oftenreading on
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Meltdown99
    Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739

    Give Peas A Chance…
  • dankind
    dankind Posts: 20,841
    edited March 2021
    23scidoo said:
    23scidoo said:
    23scidoo said:

    I only have the patience to debunk one conspiracy theory a day, so for today it's this one, since it's a particularly ridiculous yet dangerous one.

    In the "study" this article describes, the authors compared two groups - those over 65 who died at some point in the weeks after getting a covid vaccine, and those over 65 who died of covid. The first number is larger than the second, so they concluded that more over-65s died of the vaccine than of covid. 

    It should be immediately obvious what is wrong with that conclusion - dying after you get a particular vaccine does not equate to dying because you got that particular vaccine. People die of lots of things, and people over 65 die at a higher rate of lots of things. 

    The correct comparators would be all-cause mortality in people over 65 who got the vaccine and those who didn't, matched for comparable health status, age, sex, etc. 

    Given their comment about "long term side effects", the authors are obviously setting this up to later claim that every death after vaccine is a vaccine-related death, no matter how long after. 
    ''People die of lots of things, and people over 65 die at a higher rate of lots of things''..
    Have you heard any other cause of death lately??
    Here, everybody die from covid..
    Why yes, I have heard of other causes of death. Could be because I work in a hospital, but that’s likely a minor point. 
    Not here..
    I've known/been acquainted with four people who have died during the pandemic, none of whom have died from Covid-19: cancer, cancer, stroke, accident.

    Greece is really reporting every death as a Covid-19 death? 
    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,815
    Greece data for 2020 (https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/country-health-profile/greece)... is this accurate?

    Coronary Heart Disease
    27,002
    Stroke
    18,167
    Lung Cancers
    8,804
    Lung Disease
    7,774
    Influenza and Pneumonia
    7,577
    COVID-19
    6,597
    Kidney Disease
    3,905
    Colon-Rectum Cancers
    3,796
    Breast Cancer
    2,884
    Alzheimers & Dementia
    2,439
    Prostate Cancer
    2,396
    Hypertension
    2,268
    Pancreas Cancer
    2,222
    Upper Respiratory
    2,134
    Diabetes Mellitus
    2,069
    Liver Cancer
    1,878
    Stomach Cancer
    1,873
    Bladder Cancer
    1,765
    Parkinson's Disease
    1,718
    Leukemia
    1,634
    Lymphomas
    1,526
    Encephalitis
    1,164
    Road Traffic Accidents
    1,103
    Liver Disease
    1,032
    Endocrine Disorders
    728
    Peptic Ulcer Disease
    681
    hippiemom = goodness
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,815
    5.7% of deaths in 2020 in greece were Covid if that is accurate?
    hippiemom = goodness
  • dankind
    dankind Posts: 20,841
    Certainly seems more accurate than 100%.
    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • 23scidoo
    23scidoo Thessaloniki,Greece Posts: 19,946
    Nobody talking for nothing else..
    Post it the other day, people going to hospitals for other reasons, died, and the name it as a covid death..
    It's the reality here..
    Athens 2006. Dusseldorf 2007. Berlin 2009. Venice 2010. Amsterdam 1 2012. Amsterdam 1+2 2014. Buenos Aires 2015.
    Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
    EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.

    I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
  • 23scidoo
    23scidoo Thessaloniki,Greece Posts: 19,946
    Sorry, i just i remember someone who hasn't die from covid.. my mother's second husband..
    Athens 2006. Dusseldorf 2007. Berlin 2009. Venice 2010. Amsterdam 1 2012. Amsterdam 1+2 2014. Buenos Aires 2015.
    Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
    EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.

    I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
  • 23scidoo
    23scidoo Thessaloniki,Greece Posts: 19,946
    5.7% of deaths in 2020 in greece were Covid if that is accurate?
    And by your logic is that a reason to have the whole country in lockdown for almost a year now, thousand of people without job or sitting at their homes unable to work and live with 534 Euros per month and couple of dozens stupid "laws" for a year now??
    Athens 2006. Dusseldorf 2007. Berlin 2009. Venice 2010. Amsterdam 1 2012. Amsterdam 1+2 2014. Buenos Aires 2015.
    Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
    EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.

    I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,815
    23scidoo said:
    5.7% of deaths in 2020 in greece were Covid if that is accurate?
    And by your logic is that a reason to have the whole country in lockdown for almost a year now, thousand of people without job or sitting at their homes unable to work and live with 534 Euros per month and couple of dozens stupid "laws" for a year now??
    BY my logic?  I was just answering the question about % of covid deaths.  You were wrong and now trying to change the subject.  I never said anything about lockdowns, especially in greece.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Merkin Baller
    Merkin Baller Posts: 12,754
    23scidoo said:
    5.7% of deaths in 2020 in greece were Covid if that is accurate?
    And by your logic is that a reason to have the whole country in lockdown for almost a year now, thousand of people without job or sitting at their homes unable to work and live with 534 Euros per month and couple of dozens stupid "laws" for a year now??
    BY my logic?  I was just answering the question about % of covid deaths.  You were wrong and now trying to change the subject.  I never said anything about lockdowns, especially in greece.

    So these lockdowns were your idea, Cincy? 

    Thanks a lot. 

  • dankind
    dankind Posts: 20,841
    edited March 2021
    23scidoo said:
    5.7% of deaths in 2020 in greece were Covid if that is accurate?
    And by your logic is that a reason to have the whole country in lockdown for almost a year now, thousand of people without job or sitting at their homes unable to work and live with 534 Euros per month and couple of dozens stupid "laws" for a year now??
    BY my logic?  I was just answering the question about % of covid deaths.  You were wrong and now trying to change the subject.  I never said anything about lockdowns, especially in greece.

    So these lockdowns were your idea, Cincy? 

    Thanks a lot. 

    Putting you on ignore, cincy, you bastard.
    Post edited by dankind on
    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,815
    dankind said:
    23scidoo said:
    5.7% of deaths in 2020 in greece were Covid if that is accurate?
    And by your logic is that a reason to have the whole country in lockdown for almost a year now, thousand of people without job or sitting at their homes unable to work and live with 534 Euros per month and couple of dozens stupid "laws" for a year now??
    BY my logic?  I was just answering the question about % of covid deaths.  You were wrong and now trying to change the subject.  I never said anything about lockdowns, especially in greece.

    So these lockdowns were your idea, Cincy? 

    Thanks a lot. 

    Putting you on ignore, cincy, you bastard.
    Can't argue with that decision.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    So what I’m hearing is that if we all put cincy on ignore COVID goes away? Do I have that right? 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • dankind
    dankind Posts: 20,841
    So what I’m hearing is that if we all put cincy on ignore COVID goes away? Do I have that right? 
    Yes. 

    Debunk THAT!
    I SAW PEARL JAM
This discussion has been closed.