$15 minimum wage

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

brianlux said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Question about the $15 min wage raise.

If it goes through and people are able to make more and some be above the ridiculously low "poverty line" and make more that would mean a bunch of people will lose their section 8 and other welfare benefits.  If you make more and it puts you over the benefits line it still wouldn't be enough to help you pay for the healthcare, housing or food assistance that is provided.

I wonder how many people this would hurt rather than help?

Thoughts?

Excellent question.  This article seems to address some of that stating, "But because of improved incomes if the Raise the Wage Act were passed, many workers and their families would no longer qualify for or need public assistance programs, hence reducing the total government expenditures on these programs."

https://www.epi.org/publication/a-15-minimum-wage-would-have-significant-and-direct-effects-on-the-federal-budget/

I think this article is bullshit and here is why.

If you are getting public assistance and you get the increase in wage from the Min wage act I don't see how you would be able to afford the healthcare, housing and food that was assisted before.  Those 3 things are expensive and an increase of $7 after taxes won't be helping you afford those 3 them.  

Minimum wage $15x40hrs= $600
$600 x 52 is $31,000.

I couldn't live off of this in a poorer community anywhere, USA.

Next question.

Poverty line is $12,000.  That is about 3K under a minimum wage full time job.  Will America raise the poverty line to follow suit of the higher wage?  If they do then we are back to square 1 again.

Thoughts?

As head of a family, I couldn't live off that. If I was 25 and single, I could. I wouldn't be traveling to see Pearl Jam or going out to eat very often. But someone single, in a state where rent is under $1000, that is very doable.  Not saying I would want to or don't feel for people who do and struggle. But 31k in nowhere USA is probably like making 60k in LA where a studio apartment can be $1500 a month.

You could afford heath insurance and a car too?  Nope.

$31,000 salary
Taxes on income at 28%  We will give them a cheaper tax rate, is $8680
$22,360
rent 700 x 12= 8400
$13,960
Utilities $200 x 12=$2400
$11,560
Food.  Let's say they eat Ramen mostly so $100 x 52= $5200
$6360
I'll stop there with $5360 left.  If you have a car you either have a note, insurance and gas to pay or maybe all 3.
Do you smoke?
Do you drink?
If you need health insurance the cheapest out there I believe is $350 a month so that puts you at $4200 a year.
So you have $1160 left after paying all your bills and I was very lenient with the bills so you aren't doing anything and never getting out of the hole that you are in and  you sure as hell aren't driving a car because no car has a maintenance cost of $1160 a year.

So if you option for the car then you would drop the insurance.  You can't have both.

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

brianlux said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Question about the $15 min wage raise.

If it goes through and people are able to make more and some be above the ridiculously low "poverty line" and make more that would mean a bunch of people will lose their section 8 and other welfare benefits.  If you make more and it puts you over the benefits line it still wouldn't be enough to help you pay for the healthcare, housing or food assistance that is provided.

I wonder how many people this would hurt rather than help?

Thoughts?

Excellent question.  This article seems to address some of that stating, "But because of improved incomes if the Raise the Wage Act were passed, many workers and their families would no longer qualify for or need public assistance programs, hence reducing the total government expenditures on these programs."

https://www.epi.org/publication/a-15-minimum-wage-would-have-significant-and-direct-effects-on-the-federal-budget/

I think this article is bullshit and here is why.

If you are getting public assistance and you get the increase in wage from the Min wage act I don't see how you would be able to afford the healthcare, housing and food that was assisted before.  Those 3 things are expensive and an increase of $7 after taxes won't be helping you afford those 3 them.  

Minimum wage $15x40hrs= $600
$600 x 52 is $31,000.

I couldn't live off of this in a poorer community anywhere, USA.

Next question.

Poverty line is $12,000.  That is about 3K under a minimum wage full time job.  Will America raise the poverty line to follow suit of the higher wage?  If they do then we are back to square 1 again.

Thoughts?

As head of a family, I couldn't live off that. If I was 25 and single, I could. I wouldn't be traveling to see Pearl Jam or going out to eat very often. But someone single, in a state where rent is under $1000, that is very doable.  Not saying I would want to or don't feel for people who do and struggle. But 31k in nowhere USA is probably like making 60k in LA where a studio apartment can be $1500 a month.

You could afford heath insurance and a car too?  Nope.

$31,000 salary
Taxes on income at 28%  We will give them a cheaper tax rate, is $8680
$22,360
rent 700 x 12= 8400
$13,960
Utilities $200 x 12=$2400
$11,560
Food.  Let's say they eat Ramen mostly so $100 x 52= $5200
$6360
I'll stop there with $5360 left.  If you have a car you either have a note, insurance and gas to pay or maybe all 3.
Do you smoke?
Do you drink?
If you need health insurance the cheapest out there I believe is $350 a month so that puts you at $4200 a year.
So you have $1160 left after paying all your bills and I was very lenient with the bills so you aren't doing anything and never getting out of the hole that you are in and  you sure as hell aren't driving a car because no car has a maintenance cost of $1160 a year.

So if you option for the car then you would drop the insurance.  You can't have both.

Don't full time employees, even minimum wage, get health benefits?

I never said it was an easy or luxurious way to live. But that is why so many people in their 20s in LA and NYC live with room mates. I lived in LA until I was 30, I had just a few friends without room mates. TV, internet, cell phones aren't a right, many apartments include rent. So your utility bill could be 0, or at the least split 2 or 3 ways with room mates. Ramen is not the cheapest way to eat. Chicken at $1.97/lb is super cheap. Make variaties with chicken and rice and you can eat for less than Ramen.
Smoking and drinking isn't a right. If you can't afford it, don't do it. There's a reason I didn't go out drinking in my 20s when I lived in LA, I couldn't afford it on a teacher's salary. 
You'd probably have a clunker of a car with no collision insurance. 
Your taxes seemed high to me. Did a tax estimate and got about $2400 in taxes for 30k.
https://us.icalculator.info/salary-illustration/30000.html   That include SSN and medicare, etc. Still it all was less than 5k taken out of their pay.

I'm not saying this is a life I'd want for everyone, but it is livable. I was living in San Diego when I did my student teaching, probably made 20k that year working part time outside of school/work. I had 2 room mates, had internet but no TV, pretty much never ate out, never went out drinking. Only cigars I smoked were what my dad gave me. Had an old car that probably wasn;t even work $2,000 (The old blue with fake wood minivan, what they drive in Malcom in the Middle). 31k for middle of nowhere is definitely livable for some guy in his 20s trying to make something. Wouldnt make it supporting any kids though. 

static111 said:

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

brianlux said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Question about the $15 min wage raise.

If it goes through and people are able to make more and some be above the ridiculously low "poverty line" and make more that would mean a bunch of people will lose their section 8 and other welfare benefits.  If you make more and it puts you over the benefits line it still wouldn't be enough to help you pay for the healthcare, housing or food assistance that is provided.

I wonder how many people this would hurt rather than help?

Thoughts?

Excellent question.  This article seems to address some of that stating, "But because of improved incomes if the Raise the Wage Act were passed, many workers and their families would no longer qualify for or need public assistance programs, hence reducing the total government expenditures on these programs."

https://www.epi.org/publication/a-15-minimum-wage-would-have-significant-and-direct-effects-on-the-federal-budget/

I think this article is bullshit and here is why.

If you are getting public assistance and you get the increase in wage from the Min wage act I don't see how you would be able to afford the healthcare, housing and food that was assisted before.  Those 3 things are expensive and an increase of $7 after taxes won't be helping you afford those 3 them.  

Minimum wage $15x40hrs= $600
$600 x 52 is $31,000.

I couldn't live off of this in a poorer community anywhere, USA.

Next question.

Poverty line is $12,000.  That is about 3K under a minimum wage full time job.  Will America raise the poverty line to follow suit of the higher wage?  If they do then we are back to square 1 again.

Thoughts?

As head of a family, I couldn't live off that. If I was 25 and single, I could. I wouldn't be traveling to see Pearl Jam or going out to eat very often. But someone single, in a state where rent is under $1000, that is very doable.  Not saying I would want to or don't feel for people who do and struggle. But 31k in nowhere USA is probably like making 60k in LA where a studio apartment can be $1500 a month.

You could afford heath insurance and a car too?  Nope.

$31,000 salary
Taxes on income at 28%  We will give them a cheaper tax rate, is $8680
$22,360
rent 700 x 12= 8400
$13,960
Utilities $200 x 12=$2400
$11,560
Food.  Let's say they eat Ramen mostly so $100 x 52= $5200
$6360
I'll stop there with $5360 left.  If you have a car you either have a note, insurance and gas to pay or maybe all 3.
Do you smoke?
Do you drink?
If you need health insurance the cheapest out there I believe is $350 a month so that puts you at $4200 a year.
So you have $1160 left after paying all your bills and I was very lenient with the bills so you aren't doing anything and never getting out of the hole that you are in and  you sure as hell aren't driving a car because no car has a maintenance cost of $1160 a year.

So if you option for the car then you would drop the insurance.  You can't have both.

Don't full time employees, even minimum wage, get health benefits?

I never said it was an easy or luxurious way to live. But that is why so many people in their 20s in LA and NYC live with room mates. I lived in LA until I was 30, I had just a few friends without room mates. TV, internet, cell phones aren't a right, many apartments include rent. So your utility bill could be 0, or at the least split 2 or 3 ways with room mates. Ramen is not the cheapest way to eat. Chicken at $1.97/lb is super cheap. Make variaties with chicken and rice and you can eat for less than Ramen.
Smoking and drinking isn't a right. If you can't afford it, don't do it. There's a reason I didn't go out drinking in my 20s when I lived in LA, I couldn't afford it on a teacher's salary. 
You'd probably have a clunker of a car with no collision insurance. 
Your taxes seemed high to me. Did a tax estimate and got about $2400 in taxes for 30k.
https://us.icalculator.info/salary-illustration/30000.html   That include SSN and medicare, etc. Still it all was less than 5k taken out of their pay.

I'm not saying this is a life I'd want for everyone, but it is livable. I was living in San Diego when I did my student teaching, probably made 20k that year working part time outside of school/work. I had 2 room mates, had internet but no TV, pretty much never ate out, never went out drinking. Only cigars I smoked were what my dad gave me. Had an old car that probably wasn;t even work $2,000 (The old blue with fake wood minivan, what they drive in Malcom in the Middle). 31k for middle of nowhere is definitely livable for some guy in his 20s trying to make something. Wouldnt make it supporting any kids though. 

Employees pay a portion to have benefits, employers are required to offer but not foot the entire bill.  Usually the lower wage the crappier benefits in my experience.  Expect anywhere from 150-200 per check for employee cost.

Getting into apartments. You are gonna be living in some real shitholes at the 30k a year price point. 

Obviously I’m not a party to the fun isn’t a right argument.  People are born here and die here everyone is entitled to dignity and a life better than hardly getting by.

brianlux said:

static111 said:

It’s not just the minimum wage either, what happens when all of the things Biden and democrats campaigned on get overruled by the Byrd rule and a fear of abolishing the filibuster? At least the new administration will be free to drop bombs.

This reminds me that, because of the way power and ruling work, if I expect to be mostly happy with ANY president and administration I am only fooling myself and am going to be disappointed.  I am far more satisfied having a Biden administration that I ever was having a Trump administration, but I will always be far from fully satisfied with the Biden administration and will be critical of it.  As we all should be.