$15 minimum wage

brianlux

static111 said:

brianlux said:

static111 said:

It’s not just the minimum wage either, what happens when all of the things Biden and democrats campaigned on get overruled by the Byrd rule and a fear of abolishing the filibuster? At least the new administration will be free to drop bombs.

This reminds me that, because of the way power and ruling work, if I expect to be mostly happy with ANY president and administration I am only fooling myself and am going to be disappointed.  I am far more satisfied having a Biden administration that I ever was having a Trump administration, but I will always be far from fully satisfied with the Biden administration and will be critical of it.  As we all should be.

Yes Brian. I agree I am much happier with Biden than the trump administration. That bar was set pretty low for us all.  And I will continue to be as critical of Dems and Biden as I was before Trump lowered t he bar.  It’s not enough for me to be happy that no real progress gets made just because someone other than trump is presiding, quite simply I don’t think anything is going to get done without a bunch of dissatisfied people organizing and letting the current administration know how they feel and what they expect going into the mid terms.

Well said!

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

Sad part is we’re back to the same old same old now. Old joe takes us back to the status quo America that got us into this shit, the rulers and the rich against everyone else.  Military blunders, horrible foreign policy, domestic class separation. If there’s no trump next time, I’ll vote for any outsider, regardless of what party they hail from- gotta get rid of the swamp so the people have a voice.

I theory, I totally agree.  The question is, can we as a people drain the swamp AND get someone competent in office?  I think you could say that Trump supporters were trying to fight the status quo but they (in my opinion and many other's here as well) went about it all wrong by backing someone as incompetent as Trump-- and he was really only out to help the rich get richer.  Damn!  How is it those who supported Trump really think he cared two shits about them?

So how do we do what Trumpites were trying to do only with someone who truly cares and is competent?  Is this just a pipe dream? 

static111

brianlux said:

static111 said:

brianlux said:

static111 said:

It’s not just the minimum wage either, what happens when all of the things Biden and democrats campaigned on get overruled by the Byrd rule and a fear of abolishing the filibuster? At least the new administration will be free to drop bombs.

This reminds me that, because of the way power and ruling work, if I expect to be mostly happy with ANY president and administration I am only fooling myself and am going to be disappointed.  I am far more satisfied having a Biden administration that I ever was having a Trump administration, but I will always be far from fully satisfied with the Biden administration and will be critical of it.  As we all should be.

Yes Brian. I agree I am much happier with Biden than the trump administration. That bar was set pretty low for us all.  And I will continue to be as critical of Dems and Biden as I was before Trump lowered t he bar.  It’s not enough for me to be happy that no real progress gets made just because someone other than trump is presiding, quite simply I don’t think anything is going to get done without a bunch of dissatisfied people organizing and letting the current administration know how they feel and what they expect going into the mid terms.

Well said!

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

Sad part is we’re back to the same old same old now. Old joe takes us back to the status quo America that got us into this shit, the rulers and the rich against everyone else.  Military blunders, horrible foreign policy, domestic class separation. If there’s no trump next time, I’ll vote for any outsider, regardless of what party they hail from- gotta get rid of the swamp so the people have a voice.

I theory, I totally agree.  The question is, can we as a people drain the swamp AND get someone competent in office?  I think you could say that Trump supporters were trying to fight the status quo but they (in my opinion and many other's here as well) went about it all wrong by backing someone as incompetent as Trump-- and he was really only out to help the rich get richer.  Damn!  How is it those who supported Trump really think he cared two shits about them?

So how do we do what Trumpites were trying to do only with someone who truly cares and is competent?  Is this just a pipe dream? 

As much as I’d like to say guillotines, the real answer is probably non violent organizing

mickeyrat

dankind said:

mickeyrat said:

the entire fucking system was set up by racists. get the fuck over it

Or address and make systemic attempts to heal the wound instead of continuing to let it fester and infect a nation?

Did you just “get the fuck over” your alcoholism? Or does that require continuous and systemic changes, sometimes uncomfortable ones, to perpetuate a state of healing and a sense of well being?

and how would eliminating this budgetary rule to advance legislation on simple majority vote "heal"? are they suggesting that all ideas that came from certain people of a certain era and place need eliminated?

heres how my alcoholism has been addressed. I stopped bitching and whining about a past that is never going to change. Instead I acknowledged and accepted the problem as it is and worked from there. I also rely on the experience of those I dont care for for a variety of reasons. because they're sober and have the same goal. to stay sober. As total shitheals that I wouldn't piss on if they were on fire , they still have something to offer me and others.

Acceptance doesnt require approval.  so yeah, GETTING THE FUCK OVER certain blocks  to better living were a way to begin the daily job of living that comes so much easier to those not like me.

hedonist

I was basically told to get the fuck over being molested as a kid.

Didn’t work!

Halifax2TheMax

Some people have choices, some don’t, no matter what. 

Halifax2TheMax

If $15.00 an hour for “entry level work” is so bad, why does Amazon and Costco pay it for entry level and as a minimum, having a “responsibility” to share holders and all? To my knowledge, they don’t means test by age, education level or geographic region. 

mace1229

Halifax2TheMax said:

If $15.00 an hour for “entry level work” is so bad, why does Amazon and Costco pay it for entry level and as a minimum, having a “responsibility” to share holders and all? To my knowledge, they don’t means test by age, education level or geographic region. 

Costco requires you to be 18 and a high school diploma or GED. It’s also difficult to get hired, they usually require previous retail experience as well. So the entry position may be an entry position for Costco, but likely isn’t your entry job into the workforce.

Meltdown99

15 minimum wage?  This is a joke, correct?  Minimum wage should be 20 and all employers should have a health tax placed on them that allows the government to citizens basic healthcare, including dental, drugs, eye cart, physio chiro, etc...this includes Canada...

Lerxst1992

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

Sad part is we’re back to the same old same old now. Old joe takes us back to the status quo America that got us into this shit, the rulers and the rich against everyone else.  Military blunders, horrible foreign policy, domestic class separation. If there’s no trump next time, I’ll vote for any outsider, regardless of what party they hail from- gotta get rid of the swamp so the people have a voice.

Sad part is people use words to make them happier without understanding the implications of those words.

just because some thought of trump as an outsider doesn’t make his actions representative of what an outsider would do.

trump acted like a complete insider. He profited personally from the presidency and demanded that congress not hold him to the unconstutionality of his actions. He demanded everyone be loyal to him and not to we the people nor to the constitution.

of course trump supporters are not interested in what non believers say, step one in converting America into an autocracy.

Lerxst1992

static111 said:

So this “Byrd Rule” has only been around since the 80’s and was sponsored by known former white supremecist leader Robert Byrd, and this is the excuse for why poor people can’t make 30k a year...hmmm it’s almost like southern racists and “former” racists have too much power.

The Byrd Rule is actually helpful to poor people because it allows reconciliation legislation to happen, which was impossible before 1974 without 60 votes in the senate.

if the senate is creative, it will be easy to pass a new tax law that will pressure companies to pay a higher minimum wage.

for example a new tax law with a higher tax rate for companies that will not certify that their minimum wages paid for the year were not higher than the employees state’s poverty level is possible. Since this would be budget related, it probably passes the Byrd Rule. Simply said, make the tax rate difference as a monetary incentive to pay a least a living wage above the poverty level.

static111

Lerxst1992 said:

static111 said:

So this “Byrd Rule” has only been around since the 80’s and was sponsored by known former white supremecist leader Robert Byrd, and this is the excuse for why poor people can’t make 30k a year...hmmm it’s almost like southern racists and “former” racists have too much power.

The Byrd Rule is actually helpful to poor people because it allows reconciliation legislation to happen, which was impossible before 1974 without 60 votes in the senate.

if the senate is creative, it will be easy to pass a new tax law that will pressure companies to pay a higher minimum wage.

for example a new tax law with a higher tax rate for companies that will not certify that their minimum wages paid for the year were not higher than the employees state’s poverty level is possible. Since this would be budget related, it probably passes the Byrd Rule. Simply said, make the tax rate difference as a monetary incentive to pay a least a living wage above the poverty level.

Hey that’s a great idea! Hopefully something like that can happen

mrussel1

Lerxst1992 said:

static111 said:

So this “Byrd Rule” has only been around since the 80’s and was sponsored by known former white supremecist leader Robert Byrd, and this is the excuse for why poor people can’t make 30k a year...hmmm it’s almost like southern racists and “former” racists have too much power.

The Byrd Rule is actually helpful to poor people because it allows reconciliation legislation to happen, which was impossible before 1974 without 60 votes in the senate.

if the senate is creative, it will be easy to pass a new tax law that will pressure companies to pay a higher minimum wage.

for example a new tax law with a higher tax rate for companies that will not certify that their minimum wages paid for the year were not higher than the employees state’s poverty level is possible. Since this would be budget related, it probably passes the Byrd Rule. Simply said, make the tax rate difference as a monetary incentive to pay a least a living wage above the poverty level.

Yes, creative, but isn't it true that you can only have one reconcilement bill per congress?  This one will be reconcilement so it would have to wait until the next session, next year.  Correct me if I'm wrong.

mrussel1

But on the other hand, why not take the $10 offer from the GOP on the table right now.  I think that could get 60 votes.  Not it isn't $15, but let that settle and then go for more. 

mickeyrat

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

static111 said:

So this “Byrd Rule” has only been around since the 80’s and was sponsored by known former white supremecist leader Robert Byrd, and this is the excuse for why poor people can’t make 30k a year...hmmm it’s almost like southern racists and “former” racists have too much power.

The Byrd Rule is actually helpful to poor people because it allows reconciliation legislation to happen, which was impossible before 1974 without 60 votes in the senate.

if the senate is creative, it will be easy to pass a new tax law that will pressure companies to pay a higher minimum wage.

for example a new tax law with a higher tax rate for companies that will not certify that their minimum wages paid for the year were not higher than the employees state’s poverty level is possible. Since this would be budget related, it probably passes the Byrd Rule. Simply said, make the tax rate difference as a monetary incentive to pay a least a living wage above the poverty level.

Yes, creative, but isn't it true that you can only have one reconcilement bill per congress?  This one will be reconcilement so it would have to wait until the next session, next year.  Correct me if I'm wrong.

3

mickeyrat

mrussel1 said:

But on the other hand, why not take the $10 offer from the GOP on the table right now.  I think that could get 60 votes.  Not it isn't $15, but let that settle and then go for more. 

agree.

mrussel1

mickeyrat said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

static111 said:

So this “Byrd Rule” has only been around since the 80’s and was sponsored by known former white supremecist leader Robert Byrd, and this is the excuse for why poor people can’t make 30k a year...hmmm it’s almost like southern racists and “former” racists have too much power.

The Byrd Rule is actually helpful to poor people because it allows reconciliation legislation to happen, which was impossible before 1974 without 60 votes in the senate.

if the senate is creative, it will be easy to pass a new tax law that will pressure companies to pay a higher minimum wage.

for example a new tax law with a higher tax rate for companies that will not certify that their minimum wages paid for the year were not higher than the employees state’s poverty level is possible. Since this would be budget related, it probably passes the Byrd Rule. Simply said, make the tax rate difference as a monetary incentive to pay a least a living wage above the poverty level.

Yes, creative, but isn't it true that you can only have one reconcilement bill per congress?  This one will be reconcilement so it would have to wait until the next session, next year.  Correct me if I'm wrong.

3

May not matter.  The parliamentarian ruled a little while ago that even this tax law would not be considered for reconcilement.  I just heard it driving to get some lunch. 

mace1229

Meltdown99 said:

15 minimum wage?  This is a joke, correct?  Minimum wage should be 20 and all employers should have a health tax placed on them that allows the government to citizens basic healthcare, including dental, drugs, eye cart, physio chiro, etc...this includes Canada...

You think many small businesses can afford $20 an hour?

static111

mrussel1 said:

mickeyrat said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

static111 said:

So this “Byrd Rule” has only been around since the 80’s and was sponsored by known former white supremecist leader Robert Byrd, and this is the excuse for why poor people can’t make 30k a year...hmmm it’s almost like southern racists and “former” racists have too much power.

The Byrd Rule is actually helpful to poor people because it allows reconciliation legislation to happen, which was impossible before 1974 without 60 votes in the senate.

if the senate is creative, it will be easy to pass a new tax law that will pressure companies to pay a higher minimum wage.

for example a new tax law with a higher tax rate for companies that will not certify that their minimum wages paid for the year were not higher than the employees state’s poverty level is possible. Since this would be budget related, it probably passes the Byrd Rule. Simply said, make the tax rate difference as a monetary incentive to pay a least a living wage above the poverty level.

Yes, creative, but isn't it true that you can only have one reconcilement bill per congress?  This one will be reconcilement so it would have to wait until the next session, next year.  Correct me if I'm wrong.

3

May not matter.  The parliamentarian ruled a little while ago that even this tax law would not be considered for reconcilement.  I just heard it driving to get some lunch. 

Crazy that an unelected position that most of us had never heard of has so much power and sway.

mrussel1

static111 said:

mrussel1 said:

mickeyrat said:

mrussel1 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

static111 said:

So this “Byrd Rule” has only been around since the 80’s and was sponsored by known former white supremecist leader Robert Byrd, and this is the excuse for why poor people can’t make 30k a year...hmmm it’s almost like southern racists and “former” racists have too much power.

The Byrd Rule is actually helpful to poor people because it allows reconciliation legislation to happen, which was impossible before 1974 without 60 votes in the senate.

if the senate is creative, it will be easy to pass a new tax law that will pressure companies to pay a higher minimum wage.

for example a new tax law with a higher tax rate for companies that will not certify that their minimum wages paid for the year were not higher than the employees state’s poverty level is possible. Since this would be budget related, it probably passes the Byrd Rule. Simply said, make the tax rate difference as a monetary incentive to pay a least a living wage above the poverty level.

Yes, creative, but isn't it true that you can only have one reconcilement bill per congress?  This one will be reconcilement so it would have to wait until the next session, next year.  Correct me if I'm wrong.

3

May not matter.  The parliamentarian ruled a little while ago that even this tax law would not be considered for reconcilement.  I just heard it driving to get some lunch. 

Crazy that an unelected position that most of us had never heard of has so much power and sway.

Well the senate has a history of rules that are not in the Constitution.  They are tradition based.  Senate Dems could plow right through all of them if they wanted to do so, but it cuts both ways obviously.  It's really no different than nuking the filibuster, and you won't get the 51 votes needed to do it anyway.  I agree it's crazy, but the senators choose to follow her.  It's not an enumerated role. 

dankind

mace1229 said:

Meltdown99 said:

15 minimum wage?  This is a joke, correct?  Minimum wage should be 20 and all employers should have a health tax placed on them that allows the government to citizens basic healthcare, including dental, drugs, eye cart, physio chiro, etc...this includes Canada...

You think many small businesses can afford $20 an hour?

Maybe don't start a business in which you'll need hired help if you cannot then pay the person you hired a living wage?