*** DONALD J TRUMP HAS OFFICIALLY BEEN IMPEACHED FOR A SECOND TIME *** (392 days after the first)
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The Juggler said:OnWis97 said:Not convicting him is one thing. But nearly half of the Senate (and 88% of GQP in the Senate) are literally trying to set a precedent that a president can do anything at the end of their presidency with no fear of reprisal. They're willing to risk throwing the entire country away, either for one crazy moron or to keep the support of crazy morons (i.e., "their careers"). None of these 44 is fit to serve. Because they all put one person (Trump or themselves) ahead of the good of the country, not just now but forever.0
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tbergs said:OnWis97 said:Not convicting him is one thing. But nearly half of the Senate (and 88% of GQP in the Senate) are literally trying to set a precedent that a president can do anything at the end of their presidency with no fear of reprisal. They're willing to risk throwing the entire country away, either for one crazy moron or to keep the support of crazy morons (i.e., "their careers"). None of these 44 is fit to serve. Because they all put one person (Trump or themselves) ahead of the good of the country, not just now but forever.
To bolster his argument, Dershowitz points to the language of Article I Section 3, which reads:
“Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.”
Dershowitz specifically highlights that the clause mandates senatorial judgment on removal and disqualification—not or disqualification. Thus, since a former office holder cannot be removed, that person also cannot be disqualified from office.=, the argument goes.
One example offered by Dershowitz is the non-impeachment of an obviously guilty Richard Nixon in the wake of the Watergate scandal.
“Beyond the constitution, there are strong policy and historical reasons an incoming administration shouldn’t seek recriminations against its predecessor. In some countries defeated former presidents and prime ministers are routinely prosecuted,” he wrote. “For the victorious Democrats to seek revenge against Donald Trump would set a terrible precedent, distract from President Biden’s agenda, and make it hard to heal the country. Better to move on.”
Nixon, of course, resigned and was pardoned by Gerald Ford.
Dershowitz’s constitutional argument is supported by Tulane Law School lecturer and impeachment expert Ross Garber. Garber similarly asserts that the Senate only retains jurisdiction to try a sitting president, but said the case of a different Nixon might make the argument difficult for Trump.
https://lawandcrime.com/impeachment/alan-dershowitz-says-senate-lacks-jurisdiction-to-hold-trumps-impeachment-trial/It's a hopeless situation...0 -
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2021JeBurkhardt said:The Juggler said:OnWis97 said:Not convicting him is one thing. But nearly half of the Senate (and 88% of GQP in the Senate) are literally trying to set a precedent that a president can do anything at the end of their presidency with no fear of reprisal. They're willing to risk throwing the entire country away, either for one crazy moron or to keep the support of crazy morons (i.e., "their careers"). None of these 44 is fit to serve. Because they all put one person (Trump or themselves) ahead of the good of the country, not just now but forever.www.myspace.com0
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The Juggler said:static111 said:The Juggler said:OnWis97 said:Not convicting him is one thing. But nearly half of the Senate (and 88% of GQP in the Senate) are literally trying to set a precedent that a president can do anything at the end of their presidency with no fear of reprisal. They're willing to risk throwing the entire country away, either for one crazy moron or to keep the support of crazy morons (i.e., "their careers"). None of these 44 is fit to serve. Because they all put one person (Trump or themselves) ahead of the good of the country, not just now but forever.Scio me nihil scire
There are no kings inside the gates of eden0 -
guess I'll put this here..
Opinion: Trump lawyer David Schoen’s crazy theory on ‘Hannity’ unmasks the GOP’s ugly core
How the Capitol attack unfolded, from inside Trump's rally to the riot | OpinionEarly on Jan. 6, The Post's Kate Woodsome saw signs of the violence to come hours before thousands of Trump loyalists besieged the Capitol. (Joy Yi, Kate Woodsome/The Washington Post)Opinion byColumnistFeb. 10, 2021 at 10:28 a.m. ESTIt’s instructive to venture into the confines of Sean Hannity’s universe, because it often showcases the propaganda being injected into the GOP base’s veins in its most venomous form. In this regard, Monday night’s appearance by David Schoen, Donald Trump’s impeachment lawyer, did not disappoint.
Schoen floated a strange theory in defense of the former president. It’s worth unpacking, because it points in a direction that further incriminates Trump. It also underscores what is becoming of the GOP as it prepares to wholly exonerate Trump for attempting to incite the violent overthrow of U.S. democracy.
Schoen appeared to suggest law enforcement might refrain from further investigations into the rioters who stormed the Capitol, because they are showing that the assault was preplanned, supposedly exonerating Trump.
“Right now, you really are finding out about the preplanning,” Schoen told Hannity. “And I’m afraid they’re going to back off that investigation, because maybe — you know — so many people want to tie it to Donald Trump.”
Schoen added that in Monday’s Senate trial presentation, the House impeachment managers showed “nothing” that “ties” the assault to Trump.
Impeachment managers display first video evidence at Trump trialHouse impeachment managers played a video sequence of events at the beginning of the impeachment trial of former president Donald Trump on Feb. 9. (The Washington Post)The “they” who might “back off” appears to be a reference to law enforcement. If so, the idea that they might stop investigating rioters to avoid exonerating Trump is rank crackpottery.
But more important, whoever the “they” is here, the theory underlying this story is completely divorced from reality — in a way that actually further incriminates Trump.
Trump’s legal team wants to argue that because investigators are discovering that some rioters preplanned the attack, it proves Trump couldn’t possibly have incited them during his Jan. 6 harangue.
The truth is the opposite: The investigators are turning up evidence that is increasingly damning to Trump, not the other way around.
What the investigations are telling us
We are learning from the investigations that rioters who preplanned their attacks did so because they fully understood that Trump had directed them to do so.
In a deep dive into what the investigations are revealing, Post reporters recently found ample evidence of this. Their stark conclusion:
Court documents show that more than two dozen people charged in the attack specifically cited Trump and his calls to gather that day in describing on social media or in conversations with others why they decided to take action by coming to Washington.More than two dozen cited Trump. One woman who recruited for the assault said days before: “Trump wants all able bodied patriots to come.” A QAnon-supporting man wrote in advance that if Trump called for attacking the Capitol, he’d do it: He was following Trump’s marching orders.
Even the attackers’ own lawyers say Trump inspired them. As one attorney put it to The Post: “What these people heard, including my client, was an invitation, a call to arms by the president.”
One might push back by arguing that they were wrong to believe Trump indicated any of this. But that, too, is blown apart by the public record.
Indeed, the House impeachment managers’ report documents numerous examples of Trump explicitly telling his supporters well in advance to prepare to descend on the Capitol, while directly tying this to the big lie that the election had been stolen and that they were the victims of that crime. And an extensive new timeline from Just Security shows many leading pro-Trump voices amplifying the call, also well in advance.
It’s important to emphasize this: In communicating to his supporters for months that the election had been stolen from them, Trump told them in every which way that they were the victims of a tyrannical injustice that could be rectified only by overturning the official election results.
In short, he falsely told them that their own freedom was on the line, and told them to take action in response. They believed him. Trump’s words on the day itself also unequivocally show him inciting the attack, but the lead-up to that day is every bit as incriminating.
GOP’s alternate reality version of the insurrection
It’s deeply perverse that despite all this evidence, virtually all GOP senators will acquit Trump. As Sarah Longwell points out, the rioters are being prosecuted for the attacks, but the GOP elites who inspired their crimes — Trump and the GOP senators who themselves propped up the stolen-election lie — will face zero accountability.
I’d like to take this idea further. In claiming that ongoing investigations into the attack are only exonerating Trump — that the actual evidence being unearthed simply doesn’t exist at all — Trump’s lawyer is hinting at where the GOP will end up on all this.
Though there are exceptions, many in the party are gravitating toward an absolute refusal to acknowledge the slightest wrongdoing by Trump — a comprehensive refusal to acknowledge the barest existence of any of the extensive factual record demonstrating unambiguously that Trump did incite an effort to overturn our democracy, including with intimidation and violence.
You can see this erasure everywhere. Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) is now claiming that all this evidence is “full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.” Trump’s constitutional crime simply never happened.
Meanwhile, the Wyoming GOP’s censure of Rep. Liz Cheney for voting to impeach falsely claims antifa instigated the riot and treats the belief of GOP voters in Trump’s absolute innocence as guiding truth. Sen. Josh Hawley (R-Mo.), who led Trump’s effort to overturn the election in Congress, continues to do the same.
If large swaths of the GOP are going to comprehensively exonerate Trump and their party of any responsibility for the worst assault on our democracy in modern times, it doesn’t bode particularly well for its future.
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Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140 -
2021static111 said:The Juggler said:static111 said:The Juggler said:OnWis97 said:Not convicting him is one thing. But nearly half of the Senate (and 88% of GQP in the Senate) are literally trying to set a precedent that a president can do anything at the end of their presidency with no fear of reprisal. They're willing to risk throwing the entire country away, either for one crazy moron or to keep the support of crazy morons (i.e., "their careers"). None of these 44 is fit to serve. Because they all put one person (Trump or themselves) ahead of the good of the country, not just now but forever.www.myspace.com0
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It is being reported that Senator Romney had no idea how close he came and he's looking for Officer Goodman to thank him.
Post edited by Kat onFalling down,...not staying down0 -
Eugene Goodman was everywhere that day. He led those morons upstairs and away from the reps and sens...then he appears out of nowhere to save Mitt from (well, death, most likely).He's the January 6 MVP.1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine
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2021OnWis97 said:Eugene Goodman was everywhere that day. He led those morons upstairs and away from the reps and sens...then he appears out of nowhere to save Mitt from (well, death, most likely).He's the January 6 MVP.www.myspace.com0
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The Juggler said:OnWis97 said:Eugene Goodman was everywhere that day. He led those morons upstairs and away from the reps and sens...then he appears out of nowhere to save Mitt from (well, death, most likely).He's the January 6 MVP.
I don't actually know...I guess I played them out in the order that I heard about them, LOL. Either way, he should be awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom (That's what I'd be saying if Trump hadn't diminished the whole thing by handing it out to his sycophants).
1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
2024 Napa, Wrigley, Wrigley0 -
2021OnWis97 said:The Juggler said:OnWis97 said:Eugene Goodman was everywhere that day. He led those morons upstairs and away from the reps and sens...then he appears out of nowhere to save Mitt from (well, death, most likely).He's the January 6 MVP.
I don't actually know...I guess I played them out in the order that I heard about them, LOL. Either way, he should be awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom (That's what I'd be saying if Trump hadn't diminished the whole thing by handing it out to his sycophants).www.myspace.com0 -
The Juggler said:OnWis97 said:The Juggler said:OnWis97 said:Eugene Goodman was everywhere that day. He led those morons upstairs and away from the reps and sens...then he appears out of nowhere to save Mitt from (well, death, most likely).He's the January 6 MVP.
I don't actually know...I guess I played them out in the order that I heard about them, LOL. Either way, he should be awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom (That's what I'd be saying if Trump hadn't diminished the whole thing by handing it out to his sycophants).edit, congressional gold medal awarded...._____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140 -
I tuned into the impeachment today and mostly my take away was why, other than that the assailants were white, did no officers fire to protect themselves. All the times LE have been trigger happy in times of fear, and when the capitol was under siege by organized lunatics that were there to cause violence, no one was fearing for their lives?Scio me nihil scire
There are no kings inside the gates of eden0 -
static111 said:I tuned into the impeachment today and mostly my take away was why, other than that the assailants were white, did no officers fire to protect themselves. All the times LE have been trigger happy in times of fear, and when the capitol was under siege by organized lunatics that were there to cause violence, no one was fearing for their lives?'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
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benjs said:static111 said:I tuned into the impeachment today and mostly my take away was why, other than that the assailants were white, did no officers fire to protect themselves. All the times LE have been trigger happy in times of fear, and when the capitol was under siege by organized lunatics that were there to cause violence, no one was fearing for their lives?
what, 15 round mag? gets a few off then overwhelmed and gets it taken?
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Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140 -
2023man i came here expecting this thread to be lit the last 2 days. i guess it is not worth talking about after the managers have presented such a solid case that it cannot be defended or disputed."You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
gimmesometruth27 said:man i came here expecting this thread to be lit the last 2 days. i guess it is not worth talking about after the managers have presented such a solid case that it cannot be defended or disputed.09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
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2023the funniest thing is all of those rioters that are facing criminal charges are going to go to jail and the person most responsible for bringing them to DC is going to walk away without any issues."You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0
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