PPP (Paycheck Protection Program)

cincybearcat · February 2021

So - like welfare abuse, I wonder if the abuse at the business level is pretty small amount? Any data on that?

PPP - was for keeping people on staff, right? Keeping people paid even if they lost hours? So having business keep people on staff?

Gern Blansten · February 2021

cincybearcat said:

So - like welfare abuse, I wonder if the abuse at the business level is pretty small amount? Any data on that?

PPP - was for keeping people on staff, right? Keeping people paid even if they lost hours? So having business keep people on staff?

Correct....but if revenue already supported keeping people on staff it became lottery winnings. Except better than lottery because it was tax free.

brianlux · February 2021

rgambs said:

It does suck that people who haven't lost income have gotten a few thousand dollars beyond what they needed and those who HAVE lost income have gotten several thousand less than what they needed, but the solution is just beyond our broken government.

What we do know is that stimulus payments definitely boost the economy, there's no doubt about that.
Shit, my brother is poor as fuck, disabled without disability, living in section 8 on food stamps...what did they do with the second stimulus? Bought a new TV! People who aren't used to having spending cash spend it up immediately when they get some. In fairness, their TV was shot and they did need a new one, but the point is still obvious.

Very good point.

I'm not working in the Bookstore these days but was in there briefly a while back and a woman came up with a big stack of books and after she paid for them said something like, "Well, now I'm down to my last $20 unless I get more stimulus money."

OK, sure, we're happy for the business, but honestly, I would rather see her buy one book and save the rest of food and rent. The library is still up and running and they have lots of books.

mickeyrat · February 2021

brianlux said:

rgambs said:

It does suck that people who haven't lost income have gotten a few thousand dollars beyond what they needed and those who HAVE lost income have gotten several thousand less than what they needed, but the solution is just beyond our broken government.

What we do know is that stimulus payments definitely boost the economy, there's no doubt about that.
Shit, my brother is poor as fuck, disabled without disability, living in section 8 on food stamps...what did they do with the second stimulus? Bought a new TV! People who aren't used to having spending cash spend it up immediately when they get some. In fairness, their TV was shot and they did need a new one, but the point is still obvious.

Very good point.

I'm not working in the Bookstore these days but was in there briefly a while back and a woman came up with a big stack of books and after she paid for them said something like, "Well, now I'm down to my last $20 unless I get more stimulus money."

OK, sure, we're happy for the business, but honestly, I would rather see her buy one book and save the rest of food and rent. The library is still up and running and they have lots of books.

but isnt the point to stimulate business?

mrussel1 · February 2021

mickeyrat said:

brianlux said:

rgambs said:

It does suck that people who haven't lost income have gotten a few thousand dollars beyond what they needed and those who HAVE lost income have gotten several thousand less than what they needed, but the solution is just beyond our broken government.

What we do know is that stimulus payments definitely boost the economy, there's no doubt about that.
Shit, my brother is poor as fuck, disabled without disability, living in section 8 on food stamps...what did they do with the second stimulus? Bought a new TV! People who aren't used to having spending cash spend it up immediately when they get some. In fairness, their TV was shot and they did need a new one, but the point is still obvious.

Very good point.

I'm not working in the Bookstore these days but was in there briefly a while back and a woman came up with a big stack of books and after she paid for them said something like, "Well, now I'm down to my last $20 unless I get more stimulus money."

OK, sure, we're happy for the business, but honestly, I would rather see her buy one book and save the rest of food and rent. The library is still up and running and they have lots of books.

but isnt the point to stimulate business?

Yeah exactly. Unless you're just paying down debt or socking into savings, that's perfect.

brianlux · February 2021

mickeyrat said:

brianlux said:

rgambs said:

It does suck that people who haven't lost income have gotten a few thousand dollars beyond what they needed and those who HAVE lost income have gotten several thousand less than what they needed, but the solution is just beyond our broken government.

What we do know is that stimulus payments definitely boost the economy, there's no doubt about that.
Shit, my brother is poor as fuck, disabled without disability, living in section 8 on food stamps...what did they do with the second stimulus? Bought a new TV! People who aren't used to having spending cash spend it up immediately when they get some. In fairness, their TV was shot and they did need a new one, but the point is still obvious.

Very good point.

I'm not working in the Bookstore these days but was in there briefly a while back and a woman came up with a big stack of books and after she paid for them said something like, "Well, now I'm down to my last $20 unless I get more stimulus money."

OK, sure, we're happy for the business, but honestly, I would rather see her buy one book and save the rest of food and rent. The library is still up and running and they have lots of books.

but isnt the point to stimulate business?

Yes, but if someone is spending down to their last twenty bucks on fun stuff, wouldn't it make more sense to spend more of the money on essentials?

Yeah,yeah, yeah, I know... books are an essential. You don't have to tell me that!

But seriously, this incident happened before we knew more money might be coming. If she was that broke and going to spend all but her last 20 bucks based on a crap shoot of the unknown hope that more money would be coming, maybe this young lady would have done better for herself and to stimulate business just as much by spending a little on pleasure, but spending more on things like food or something to wear to an interview or toothpaste or others living essentials.

mickeyrat · February 2021

brianlux said:

mickeyrat said:

brianlux said:

rgambs said:

It does suck that people who haven't lost income have gotten a few thousand dollars beyond what they needed and those who HAVE lost income have gotten several thousand less than what they needed, but the solution is just beyond our broken government.

What we do know is that stimulus payments definitely boost the economy, there's no doubt about that.
Shit, my brother is poor as fuck, disabled without disability, living in section 8 on food stamps...what did they do with the second stimulus? Bought a new TV! People who aren't used to having spending cash spend it up immediately when they get some. In fairness, their TV was shot and they did need a new one, but the point is still obvious.

Very good point.

I'm not working in the Bookstore these days but was in there briefly a while back and a woman came up with a big stack of books and after she paid for them said something like, "Well, now I'm down to my last $20 unless I get more stimulus money."

OK, sure, we're happy for the business, but honestly, I would rather see her buy one book and save the rest of food and rent. The library is still up and running and they have lots of books.

but isnt the point to stimulate business?

Yes, but if someone is spending down to their last twenty bucks on fun stuff, wouldn't it make more sense to spend more of the money on essentials?

Yeah,yeah, yeah, I know... books are an essential. You don't have to tell me that!

But seriously, this incident happened before we knew more money might be coming. If she was that broke and going to spend all but her last 20 bucks based on a crap shoot of the unknown hope that more money would be coming, maybe this young lady would have done better for herself and to stimulate business just as much by spending a little on pleasure, but spending more on things like food or something to wear to an interview or toothpaste or others living essentials.

wait. didnt you say she was down to the last 20 of stimulus? you infer that's the only money she had? Am reading a lot of assumptions on your part.

brianlux · February 2021

mickeyrat said:

brianlux said:

mickeyrat said:

brianlux said:

rgambs said:

It does suck that people who haven't lost income have gotten a few thousand dollars beyond what they needed and those who HAVE lost income have gotten several thousand less than what they needed, but the solution is just beyond our broken government.

What we do know is that stimulus payments definitely boost the economy, there's no doubt about that.
Shit, my brother is poor as fuck, disabled without disability, living in section 8 on food stamps...what did they do with the second stimulus? Bought a new TV! People who aren't used to having spending cash spend it up immediately when they get some. In fairness, their TV was shot and they did need a new one, but the point is still obvious.

Very good point.

I'm not working in the Bookstore these days but was in there briefly a while back and a woman came up with a big stack of books and after she paid for them said something like, "Well, now I'm down to my last $20 unless I get more stimulus money."

OK, sure, we're happy for the business, but honestly, I would rather see her buy one book and save the rest of food and rent. The library is still up and running and they have lots of books.

but isnt the point to stimulate business?

Yes, but if someone is spending down to their last twenty bucks on fun stuff, wouldn't it make more sense to spend more of the money on essentials?

Yeah,yeah, yeah, I know... books are an essential. You don't have to tell me that!

But seriously, this incident happened before we knew more money might be coming. If she was that broke and going to spend all but her last 20 bucks based on a crap shoot of the unknown hope that more money would be coming, maybe this young lady would have done better for herself and to stimulate business just as much by spending a little on pleasure, but spending more on things like food or something to wear to an interview or toothpaste or others living essentials.

wait. didnt you say she was down to the last 20 of stimulus? you infer that's the only money she had? Am reading a lot of assumptions on your part.

She said it was all she had- her last twenty bucks period.

hedonist · February 2021

In terms of how the stimulus (if any) is spent, I kinda look at it like giving money to a homeless or otherwise needy person. I don't get to dictate what they spend that money on. I may not condone or understand what's done with it, but it's simply none of my business.

brianlux · February 2021

hedonist said:

In terms of how the stimulus (if any) is spent, I kinda look at it like giving money to a homeless or otherwise needy person. I don't get to dictate what they spend that money on. I may not condone or understand what's done with it, but it's simply none of my business.

Agreed.

I said nothing slighting or derogatory toward that person in the least. I only brought it up as an example and in more general terms. I never tell other people what to do.

rgambs · February 2021

There's a psychological phenomenon that someone with a real internet connection could probably find and link...to put it ridiculously simply, poor people (like my family) lose impulse control through prolonged exposure to deficits in wants and needs. The result is that while those with less means are the ones who most need frugality, it often escapes them and they end up with impulse buys of "luxury" items that people with higher incomes consider outside of their own budget.

Gern Blansten · February 2021

rgambs said:

There's a psychological phenomenon that someone with a real internet connection could probably find and link...to put it ridiculously simply, poor people (like my family) lose impulse control through prolonged exposure to deficits in wants and needs. The result is that while those with less means are the ones who most need frugality, it often escapes them and they end up with impulse buys of "luxury" items that people with higher incomes consider outside of their own budget.

Which is why the stimulus is so important. It stimulates the economy because people tend to spend the money on items they need...food, clothing, TV, entertainment, etc.

Vs these people raking in tons of cash via PPP and hoarding the cash. They don't spend it because they already have a new car, new clothes, etc.

rgambs · February 2021

Gern Blansten said:

rgambs said:

There's a psychological phenomenon that someone with a real internet connection could probably find and link...to put it ridiculously simply, poor people (like my family) lose impulse control through prolonged exposure to deficits in wants and needs. The result is that while those with less means are the ones who most need frugality, it often escapes them and they end up with impulse buys of "luxury" items that people with higher incomes consider outside of their own budget.

Which is why the stimulus is so important. It stimulates the economy because people tend to spend the money on items they need...food, clothing, TV, entertainment, etc.

Vs these people raking in tons of cash via PPP and hoarding the cash. They don't spend it because they already have a new car, new clothes, etc.

Absolutely, and while tax cuts for job creation isn't exactly bullshit, it obviously needs balanced with cash in people's pockets...though of course, stimulus isn't the only way to get cash in people's pockets.

cincybearcat · February 2021

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/20/economy/stimulus-checks-economic-impact/index.html

mrussel1 · February 2021

cincybearcat said:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/20/economy/stimulus-checks-economic-impact/index.html

This is out of context or something. Perhaps this writer is pulling some old quotes but Zandi has been very supportive of a large stimulus this round. Their position paper on Moody's opens with this:

President-elect Joe Biden’s proposed $1.9 trillion fiscal rescue package, the American Rescue

Plan, would provide a large boost to the economy if passed into law. With this additional

economic support, real GDP growth would be robust at nearly 8% this year and almost 4%

next, bringing the economy back almost to full employment by fall 2022

cincybearcat · February 2021

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/wrong-stimulus-wrong-time-11612568558

Definitely some interesting differing opinions

mrussel1 · February 2021

cincybearcat said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/wrong-stimulus-wrong-time-11612568558

Definitely some interesting differing opinions

Read what moodys really said... not that cherry picked article. https://www.moodysanalytics.com/-/media/article/2021/economic-assessment-of-biden-fiscal-rescue-package.pdf

Wsj editorial is a mouthpiece for the GOP

Halifax2TheMax · February 2021

mrussel1 said:

cincybearcat said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/wrong-stimulus-wrong-time-11612568558

Definitely some interesting differing opinions

Read what moodys really said... not that cherry picked article. https://www.moodysanalytics.com/-/media/article/2021/economic-assessment-of-biden-fiscal-rescue-package.pdf

Wsj editorial is a mouthpiece for the GOP

You cant expect anything from Rupert Murdoch to be anything else. WSJ is garbage now.

mrussel1 · February 2021

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

cincybearcat said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/wrong-stimulus-wrong-time-11612568558

Definitely some interesting differing opinions

Read what moodys really said... not that cherry picked article. https://www.moodysanalytics.com/-/media/article/2021/economic-assessment-of-biden-fiscal-rescue-package.pdf

Wsj editorial is a mouthpiece for the GOP

You cant expect anything from Rupert Murdoch to be anything else. WSJ is garbage now.

The reporting is good, not the opinion side

Halifax2TheMax · February 2021

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

cincybearcat said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/wrong-stimulus-wrong-time-11612568558

Definitely some interesting differing opinions

Read what moodys really said... not that cherry picked article. https://www.moodysanalytics.com/-/media/article/2021/economic-assessment-of-biden-fiscal-rescue-package.pdf

Wsj editorial is a mouthpiece for the GOP

You cant expect anything from Rupert Murdoch to be anything else. WSJ is garbage now.

The reporting is good, not the opinion side

The print edition seems to have gone with some color pages and a dumbing down or simplification of the language used in articles. Almost more tabloidy. Certainly not what it used to be. And every subscription, online or print, purchase or click, supports that insurrectionist douche Murdoch. Faux News Corp has blood on its hands and has done more than anyone to divide this nation. Fuck him and them.

PPP (Paycheck Protection Program)

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