The coronavirus

static111 said:

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what dreams said:

oftenreading said:

what dreams said:

mcgruff10 said:

I just found out that teachers in NJ will be getting the vaccine during phase 1b:  Those frontline workers include some 30 million people, including first responders such as firefighters and police, educators, including teachers, support staff and daycare workers, those who work in food and agriculture, manufacturing, corrections workers, U.S. Postal Service workers, public transit workers and grocery workers.

So I am not antivaxx at all but for some reason am a little worried about getting a vaccine that was made so quickly.  Any thoughts?  Does everyone here plan to get the vaccine once it becomes available?

I'm conflicted about it for sure. I have reservations about long-term side effects, things that don't show up right away. I was having a conversation with my SIL nurse who is also reluctant, and she's like "What happens if you end up with Alzheimers in 5 years and nobody knew?" I also find it sketchy that it only prevents symptoms from developing. It doesn't actually prevent contraction of the virus itself. That seems weird to me, that I could be walking around with this latent virus and who knows how long the vaccine works to keep the symptoms at bay. 
I should add I have never taken a flu vaccine in my life, and I've actually never developed flu. I know, I know -- it's not the fucking flu. I'm  just not one to take medicines unless it's totally necessary. My mom with heart failure has been on a cocktail of heart medications (BP, high lipids) for 30+ years and when I looked at the literature for her heart medicine, heart failure is an effect of long-term use for several of them. Go figure. Her anti-depressant can cause arythmia over the long term, so now she's got an arythmia. So now she's taking a blood thinner to prevent stroke from the arythmia, and the safety literature on that blood thinner cautions that it can cause the stroke it's supposed to prevent. It's just fucked up, modern medicine, as far as I'm concerned. 
I don't know what I'm going to do. Right now, I'm inclined to just keep washing my hands, wearing a mask, and staying away from people. It's not that hard to do and I will probably have the same amount of protection as the vaccine.

Why do you think this is weird? This is how our immune systems work. This is what happens to you every day - you walk around being exposed to a multitude of different potential pathogens and your immune system prevents you from getting sick. 

Rationalizations like these are going to keep the pandemic going. 

Yes, that's how my natural immunity works; that's how the vaccine will work. And my next sentence said, we don't know yet how long the immunity from the virus will last. And we don't know what long-term side effects will occur. Maybe none, maybe something terrible. It is not irrational at all to think about any of these things . . . but seriously, I don't need your approval to make a completely personal decision about what to do with my body, so there's that.  

Even with a vaccine, the CDC tells us that we still have to wash our hands, wear a mask, and practice social distancing. So what the F difference does it make? To me, not much. With a vaccine, I can still catch the virus, I may still be able to pass it on to someone else asymptomatically (we don't know yet), and I still have to practice pandemic social behaviors. Sounds like a real promising solution to "getting back to normal."

From the CDC website (we're all freaking guinea pigs):
"It’s important for everyone to continue using all the tools available to help stop this pandemic as we learn more about how COVID-19 vaccines work in real-world conditions. Cover your mouth and nose with a mask when around others, stay at least 6 feet away from others, avoid crowds, and wash your hands often.​"

Nothing's changed.

I’m with you on this.  Not anti vax, but worried about potential long term side effects.  Also if we have to continue distancing and wearing masks it is going to really be frustrating.  I’m not wanting to be a test subject.  Luckily as a healthy millennial, I will be at the end of the list, watching to see if anyone turns into I Am Legend zombies.

mace1229 said:

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oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

oftenreading said:

what dreams said:

mcgruff10 said:

I just found out that teachers in NJ will be getting the vaccine during phase 1b:  Those frontline workers include some 30 million people, including first responders such as firefighters and police, educators, including teachers, support staff and daycare workers, those who work in food and agriculture, manufacturing, corrections workers, U.S. Postal Service workers, public transit workers and grocery workers.

So I am not antivaxx at all but for some reason am a little worried about getting a vaccine that was made so quickly.  Any thoughts?  Does everyone here plan to get the vaccine once it becomes available?

I'm conflicted about it for sure. I have reservations about long-term side effects, things that don't show up right away. I was having a conversation with my SIL nurse who is also reluctant, and she's like "What happens if you end up with Alzheimers in 5 years and nobody knew?" I also find it sketchy that it only prevents symptoms from developing. It doesn't actually prevent contraction of the virus itself. That seems weird to me, that I could be walking around with this latent virus and who knows how long the vaccine works to keep the symptoms at bay. 
I should add I have never taken a flu vaccine in my life, and I've actually never developed flu. I know, I know -- it's not the fucking flu. I'm  just not one to take medicines unless it's totally necessary. My mom with heart failure has been on a cocktail of heart medications (BP, high lipids) for 30+ years and when I looked at the literature for her heart medicine, heart failure is an effect of long-term use for several of them. Go figure. Her anti-depressant can cause arythmia over the long term, so now she's got an arythmia. So now she's taking a blood thinner to prevent stroke from the arythmia, and the safety literature on that blood thinner cautions that it can cause the stroke it's supposed to prevent. It's just fucked up, modern medicine, as far as I'm concerned. 
I don't know what I'm going to do. Right now, I'm inclined to just keep washing my hands, wearing a mask, and staying away from people. It's not that hard to do and I will probably have the same amount of protection as the vaccine.

Why do you think this is weird? This is how our immune systems work. This is what happens to you every day - you walk around being exposed to a multitude of different potential pathogens and your immune system prevents you from getting sick. 

Rationalizations like these are going to keep the pandemic going. 

That’s not how other vaccines work is it? My understanding was always they give your body just enough to kill it and therefore is ready to kill it again if you’re exposed? My doctor told me to get the flu shot when I had kids so I wouldn’t expose them. 

So it does seem different that this vaccine doesn’t help your body kill the virus, just mute the symptoms. But at the end of the day, that’s what I care about. I wouldn’t care about getting the flu, or HIV for that matter, if there weren’t any symptoms.

You’ve misunderstood what I said, which is not surprising - immunology is complex and confusing. 

Vaccines use a variety of different techniques to stimulate our immune systems to react to neutralize what seems to be a neutralizing infectious agent. Classic vaccines were usually live attenuated - in which the infectious agent is still alive but is modified to cause very mild or no disease - or killed - in which the infectious agent was dead but still presented the antigenic parts (there are a couple of other types but these were most common). When administered, they cause the immune system to respond in several different ways, which include releasing cells that directly gobble up the invaders (especially if they are bacteria or fungi), producing antibodies, which attack the antigens (proteins) on the invader, and lymphocytes, which destroy the host cells that have been infected. This process is essentially the same whether you get a natural infection or whether you are responding to an immunization. 

Sometimes vaccines can produce a stronger and more protective immune response than getting the disease, depended on how the vaccine is formulated. 

All vaccines work to produce an immune response that will destroy the infectious agents before they can replicate enough to cause disease - so, they do not just “mute the symptoms”, any more than an immune response to an infection just “mutes the symptoms”.

My misunderstanding was I thought you agreed with what you bolded based on your reply. What Dreams said it just masks the symptoms and you asked why she thought that was weird. I thought there was some big news I missed about how this vaccine is different than others or something. 

mcgruff10 said:

Just to put this into perspective (and no I don’t take it lol):

oftenreading said:

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mace1229 said:

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

oftenreading said:

what dreams said:

mcgruff10 said:

I just found out that teachers in NJ will be getting the vaccine during phase 1b:  Those frontline workers include some 30 million people, including first responders such as firefighters and police, educators, including teachers, support staff and daycare workers, those who work in food and agriculture, manufacturing, corrections workers, U.S. Postal Service workers, public transit workers and grocery workers.

So I am not antivaxx at all but for some reason am a little worried about getting a vaccine that was made so quickly.  Any thoughts?  Does everyone here plan to get the vaccine once it becomes available?

I'm conflicted about it for sure. I have reservations about long-term side effects, things that don't show up right away. I was having a conversation with my SIL nurse who is also reluctant, and she's like "What happens if you end up with Alzheimers in 5 years and nobody knew?" I also find it sketchy that it only prevents symptoms from developing. It doesn't actually prevent contraction of the virus itself. That seems weird to me, that I could be walking around with this latent virus and who knows how long the vaccine works to keep the symptoms at bay. 
I should add I have never taken a flu vaccine in my life, and I've actually never developed flu. I know, I know -- it's not the fucking flu. I'm  just not one to take medicines unless it's totally necessary. My mom with heart failure has been on a cocktail of heart medications (BP, high lipids) for 30+ years and when I looked at the literature for her heart medicine, heart failure is an effect of long-term use for several of them. Go figure. Her anti-depressant can cause arythmia over the long term, so now she's got an arythmia. So now she's taking a blood thinner to prevent stroke from the arythmia, and the safety literature on that blood thinner cautions that it can cause the stroke it's supposed to prevent. It's just fucked up, modern medicine, as far as I'm concerned. 
I don't know what I'm going to do. Right now, I'm inclined to just keep washing my hands, wearing a mask, and staying away from people. It's not that hard to do and I will probably have the same amount of protection as the vaccine.

Why do you think this is weird? This is how our immune systems work. This is what happens to you every day - you walk around being exposed to a multitude of different potential pathogens and your immune system prevents you from getting sick. 

Rationalizations like these are going to keep the pandemic going. 

That’s not how other vaccines work is it? My understanding was always they give your body just enough to kill it and therefore is ready to kill it again if you’re exposed? My doctor told me to get the flu shot when I had kids so I wouldn’t expose them. 

So it does seem different that this vaccine doesn’t help your body kill the virus, just mute the symptoms. But at the end of the day, that’s what I care about. I wouldn’t care about getting the flu, or HIV for that matter, if there weren’t any symptoms.

You’ve misunderstood what I said, which is not surprising - immunology is complex and confusing. 

Vaccines use a variety of different techniques to stimulate our immune systems to react to neutralize what seems to be a neutralizing infectious agent. Classic vaccines were usually live attenuated - in which the infectious agent is still alive but is modified to cause very mild or no disease - or killed - in which the infectious agent was dead but still presented the antigenic parts (there are a couple of other types but these were most common). When administered, they cause the immune system to respond in several different ways, which include releasing cells that directly gobble up the invaders (especially if they are bacteria or fungi), producing antibodies, which attack the antigens (proteins) on the invader, and lymphocytes, which destroy the host cells that have been infected. This process is essentially the same whether you get a natural infection or whether you are responding to an immunization. 

Sometimes vaccines can produce a stronger and more protective immune response than getting the disease, depended on how the vaccine is formulated. 

All vaccines work to produce an immune response that will destroy the infectious agents before they can replicate enough to cause disease - so, they do not just “mute the symptoms”, any more than an immune response to an infection just “mutes the symptoms”.

My misunderstanding was I thought you agreed with what you bolded based on your reply. What Dreams said it just masks the symptoms and you asked why she thought that was weird. I thought there was some big news I missed about how this vaccine is different than others or something. 

No one said it "masks" symptoms. The comment was that it "prevents symptoms from developing", which it does, by preventing significant illness. The immune system can only deal with what's in the body, which means it can't prevent viral particles from entering your body, it just prevents you from getting sick. This is the same for essentially any pathogen. 

The issue of whether it prevents transmissibility is not yet known, but I don't see why that would be a factor in someone deciding whether to get vaccinated or not, since we already know that asymptomatic infected individuals can transmit the virus, so it's not like vaccination is making anything worse.