The coronavirus

Spiritual_Chaos

HughFreakingDillon said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Isn't the relief check way to communist for the "healthcare being affordable by being tax funded is not the american way" crowd ?

i'm sure even the "government handouts = communism" crowd will gladly take some cash so they don't lose their homes. 

Skenheligt.

dignin

oftenreading said:

I have read today that the mRNA vaccines are expected to be more easily tweaked for mutations in the virus than conventional vaccines, giving a more nimble response. The companies may even begin working on modifications for upcoming releases. 

I have heard this also. It's amazing science.

HughFreakingDillon

Spiritual_Chaos said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Isn't the relief check way to communist for the "healthcare being affordable by being tax funded is not the american way" crowd ?

i'm sure even the "government handouts = communism" crowd will gladly take some cash so they don't lose their homes. 

Skenheligt.

Lptabndsltsants

tbergs

HughFreakingDillon said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Isn't the relief check way to communist for the "healthcare being affordable by being tax funded is not the american way" crowd ?

i'm sure even the "government handouts = communism" crowd will gladly take some cash so they don't lose their homes. 

Skenheligt.

Lptabndsltsants

Is this a drinking game? Hmm, don't know these so I'll chug 2.

Ratamahatta

what dreams

oftenreading said:

what dreams said:

mcgruff10 said:

I just found out that teachers in NJ will be getting the vaccine during phase 1b:  Those frontline workers include some 30 million people, including first responders such as firefighters and police, educators, including teachers, support staff and daycare workers, those who work in food and agriculture, manufacturing, corrections workers, U.S. Postal Service workers, public transit workers and grocery workers.

So I am not antivaxx at all but for some reason am a little worried about getting a vaccine that was made so quickly.  Any thoughts?  Does everyone here plan to get the vaccine once it becomes available?

I'm conflicted about it for sure. I have reservations about long-term side effects, things that don't show up right away. I was having a conversation with my SIL nurse who is also reluctant, and she's like "What happens if you end up with Alzheimers in 5 years and nobody knew?" I also find it sketchy that it only prevents symptoms from developing. It doesn't actually prevent contraction of the virus itself. That seems weird to me, that I could be walking around with this latent virus and who knows how long the vaccine works to keep the symptoms at bay. 
I should add I have never taken a flu vaccine in my life, and I've actually never developed flu. I know, I know -- it's not the fucking flu. I'm  just not one to take medicines unless it's totally necessary. My mom with heart failure has been on a cocktail of heart medications (BP, high lipids) for 30+ years and when I looked at the literature for her heart medicine, heart failure is an effect of long-term use for several of them. Go figure. Her anti-depressant can cause arythmia over the long term, so now she's got an arythmia. So now she's taking a blood thinner to prevent stroke from the arythmia, and the safety literature on that blood thinner cautions that it can cause the stroke it's supposed to prevent. It's just fucked up, modern medicine, as far as I'm concerned. 
I don't know what I'm going to do. Right now, I'm inclined to just keep washing my hands, wearing a mask, and staying away from people. It's not that hard to do and I will probably have the same amount of protection as the vaccine.

Why do you think this is weird? This is how our immune systems work. This is what happens to you every day - you walk around being exposed to a multitude of different potential pathogens and your immune system prevents you from getting sick. 

Rationalizations like these are going to keep the pandemic going. 

Yes, that's how my natural immunity works; that's how the vaccine will work. And my next sentence said, we don't know yet how long the immunity from the virus will last. And we don't know what long-term side effects will occur. Maybe none, maybe something terrible. It is not irrational at all to think about any of these things . . . but seriously, I don't need your approval to make a completely personal decision about what to do with my body, so there's that.  

Even with a vaccine, the CDC tells us that we still have to wash our hands, wear a mask, and practice social distancing. So what the F difference does it make? To me, not much. With a vaccine, I can still catch the virus, I may still be able to pass it on to someone else asymptomatically (we don't know yet), and I still have to practice pandemic social behaviors. Sounds like a real promising solution to "getting back to normal."

From the CDC website (we're all freaking guinea pigs):
"It’s important for everyone to continue using all the tools available to help stop this pandemic as we learn more about how COVID-19 vaccines work in real-world conditions. Cover your mouth and nose with a mask when around others, stay at least 6 feet away from others, avoid crowds, and wash your hands often.​"

Nothing's changed.

oftenreading

AstraZeneca reportedly completed their application to the British government today for regulatory approval of their vaccine, developed in conjunction with Oxford University.

And a few days ago they announced that they are partnering with developers of the Russian Sputnik V vaccine to see if a combo vaccine provides greater efficacy. Trials to start late 2020, i.e. soon. 

oftenreading

what dreams said:

oftenreading said:

what dreams said:

mcgruff10 said:

I just found out that teachers in NJ will be getting the vaccine during phase 1b:  Those frontline workers include some 30 million people, including first responders such as firefighters and police, educators, including teachers, support staff and daycare workers, those who work in food and agriculture, manufacturing, corrections workers, U.S. Postal Service workers, public transit workers and grocery workers.

So I am not antivaxx at all but for some reason am a little worried about getting a vaccine that was made so quickly.  Any thoughts?  Does everyone here plan to get the vaccine once it becomes available?

I'm conflicted about it for sure. I have reservations about long-term side effects, things that don't show up right away. I was having a conversation with my SIL nurse who is also reluctant, and she's like "What happens if you end up with Alzheimers in 5 years and nobody knew?" I also find it sketchy that it only prevents symptoms from developing. It doesn't actually prevent contraction of the virus itself. That seems weird to me, that I could be walking around with this latent virus and who knows how long the vaccine works to keep the symptoms at bay. 
I should add I have never taken a flu vaccine in my life, and I've actually never developed flu. I know, I know -- it's not the fucking flu. I'm  just not one to take medicines unless it's totally necessary. My mom with heart failure has been on a cocktail of heart medications (BP, high lipids) for 30+ years and when I looked at the literature for her heart medicine, heart failure is an effect of long-term use for several of them. Go figure. Her anti-depressant can cause arythmia over the long term, so now she's got an arythmia. So now she's taking a blood thinner to prevent stroke from the arythmia, and the safety literature on that blood thinner cautions that it can cause the stroke it's supposed to prevent. It's just fucked up, modern medicine, as far as I'm concerned. 
I don't know what I'm going to do. Right now, I'm inclined to just keep washing my hands, wearing a mask, and staying away from people. It's not that hard to do and I will probably have the same amount of protection as the vaccine.

Why do you think this is weird? This is how our immune systems work. This is what happens to you every day - you walk around being exposed to a multitude of different potential pathogens and your immune system prevents you from getting sick. 

Rationalizations like these are going to keep the pandemic going. 

Yes, that's how my natural immunity works; that's how the vaccine will work. And my next sentence said, we don't know yet how long the immunity from the virus will last. And we don't know what long-term side effects will occur. Maybe none, maybe something terrible. It is not irrational at all to think about any of these things . . . but seriously, I don't need your approval to make a completely personal decision about what to do with my body, so there's that.  

Even with a vaccine, the CDC tells us that we still have to wash our hands, wear a mask, and practice social distancing. So what the F difference does it make? To me, not much. With a vaccine, I can still catch the virus, I may still be able to pass it on to someone else asymptomatically (we don't know yet), and I still have to practice pandemic social behaviors. Sounds like a real promising solution to "getting back to normal."

From the CDC website (we're all freaking guinea pigs):
"It’s important for everyone to continue using all the tools available to help stop this pandemic as we learn more about how COVID-19 vaccines work in real-world conditions. Cover your mouth and nose with a mask when around others, stay at least 6 feet away from others, avoid crowds, and wash your hands often.​"

Nothing's changed.

"Nothing's changed" in the short term of a few weeks to months is not equivalent to "nothing will change in the long term, whether I get vaccination or not".

And if you post your opinion on something, don't be surprised when you get comments. 

oftenreading

Other update of note - the phase 3 trial for the Johnson & Johnson trial is fully enrolled, with 45,000 subjects. First look-see results may come by end of January.

mcgruff10

oftenreading said:

mcgruff10 said:

oftenreading said:

Moderna vaccine approved by Health Canada today and we should have 168,000 doses by the end of December, which is coming up pretty close.

@oftenreading do you prefer one vaccine over another?

There is insufficient data at this point to make a distinction based on safety or efficacy, in my opinion. I am happy that the Moderna vaccine has less stringent storage and shipping requirements, since that allows us to get vaccine out to remote and northern communities, who are otherwise out of luck, and directly into LTC facilities to vaccinate the residents, who are too frail to safely make the trip to an immunization centre. 

Waiting eagerly for more data to roll in, and for more vaccines to be considered for approval. 

Thank you for the input, I do appreciate it.  

mace1229

oftenreading said:

what dreams said:

mcgruff10 said:

I just found out that teachers in NJ will be getting the vaccine during phase 1b:  Those frontline workers include some 30 million people, including first responders such as firefighters and police, educators, including teachers, support staff and daycare workers, those who work in food and agriculture, manufacturing, corrections workers, U.S. Postal Service workers, public transit workers and grocery workers.

So I am not antivaxx at all but for some reason am a little worried about getting a vaccine that was made so quickly.  Any thoughts?  Does everyone here plan to get the vaccine once it becomes available?

I'm conflicted about it for sure. I have reservations about long-term side effects, things that don't show up right away. I was having a conversation with my SIL nurse who is also reluctant, and she's like "What happens if you end up with Alzheimers in 5 years and nobody knew?" I also find it sketchy that it only prevents symptoms from developing. It doesn't actually prevent contraction of the virus itself. That seems weird to me, that I could be walking around with this latent virus and who knows how long the vaccine works to keep the symptoms at bay. 
I should add I have never taken a flu vaccine in my life, and I've actually never developed flu. I know, I know -- it's not the fucking flu. I'm  just not one to take medicines unless it's totally necessary. My mom with heart failure has been on a cocktail of heart medications (BP, high lipids) for 30+ years and when I looked at the literature for her heart medicine, heart failure is an effect of long-term use for several of them. Go figure. Her anti-depressant can cause arythmia over the long term, so now she's got an arythmia. So now she's taking a blood thinner to prevent stroke from the arythmia, and the safety literature on that blood thinner cautions that it can cause the stroke it's supposed to prevent. It's just fucked up, modern medicine, as far as I'm concerned. 
I don't know what I'm going to do. Right now, I'm inclined to just keep washing my hands, wearing a mask, and staying away from people. It's not that hard to do and I will probably have the same amount of protection as the vaccine.

Why do you think this is weird? This is how our immune systems work. This is what happens to you every day - you walk around being exposed to a multitude of different potential pathogens and your immune system prevents you from getting sick. 

Rationalizations like these are going to keep the pandemic going. 

That’s not how other vaccines work is it? My understanding was always they give your body just enough to kill it and therefore is ready to kill it again if you’re exposed? My doctor told me to get the flu shot when I had kids so I wouldn’t expose them. 

So it does seem different that this vaccine doesn’t help your body kill the virus, just mute the symptoms. But at the end of the day, that’s what I care about. I wouldn’t care about getting the flu, or HIV for that matter, if there weren’t any symptoms.

hedonist

mace1229 said:

oftenreading said:

what dreams said:

mcgruff10 said:

I just found out that teachers in NJ will be getting the vaccine during phase 1b:  Those frontline workers include some 30 million people, including first responders such as firefighters and police, educators, including teachers, support staff and daycare workers, those who work in food and agriculture, manufacturing, corrections workers, U.S. Postal Service workers, public transit workers and grocery workers.

So I am not antivaxx at all but for some reason am a little worried about getting a vaccine that was made so quickly.  Any thoughts?  Does everyone here plan to get the vaccine once it becomes available?

I'm conflicted about it for sure. I have reservations about long-term side effects, things that don't show up right away. I was having a conversation with my SIL nurse who is also reluctant, and she's like "What happens if you end up with Alzheimers in 5 years and nobody knew?" I also find it sketchy that it only prevents symptoms from developing. It doesn't actually prevent contraction of the virus itself. That seems weird to me, that I could be walking around with this latent virus and who knows how long the vaccine works to keep the symptoms at bay. 
I should add I have never taken a flu vaccine in my life, and I've actually never developed flu. I know, I know -- it's not the fucking flu. I'm  just not one to take medicines unless it's totally necessary. My mom with heart failure has been on a cocktail of heart medications (BP, high lipids) for 30+ years and when I looked at the literature for her heart medicine, heart failure is an effect of long-term use for several of them. Go figure. Her anti-depressant can cause arythmia over the long term, so now she's got an arythmia. So now she's taking a blood thinner to prevent stroke from the arythmia, and the safety literature on that blood thinner cautions that it can cause the stroke it's supposed to prevent. It's just fucked up, modern medicine, as far as I'm concerned. 
I don't know what I'm going to do. Right now, I'm inclined to just keep washing my hands, wearing a mask, and staying away from people. It's not that hard to do and I will probably have the same amount of protection as the vaccine.

Why do you think this is weird? This is how our immune systems work. This is what happens to you every day - you walk around being exposed to a multitude of different potential pathogens and your immune system prevents you from getting sick. 

Rationalizations like these are going to keep the pandemic going. 

That’s not how other vaccines work is it? My understanding was always they give your body just enough to kill it and therefore is ready to kill it again if you’re exposed? My doctor told me to get the flu shot when I had kids so I wouldn’t expose them. 

So it does seem different that this vaccine doesn’t help your body kill the virus, just mute the symptoms. But at the end of the day, that’s what I care about. I wouldn’t care about getting the flu, or HIV for that matter, if there weren’t any symptoms.

My shingles vax was a two-stepper, so I imagine many others are similar in that sense.

Paging Ms. often!

HughFreakingDillon

mace1229 said:

oftenreading said:

what dreams said:

mcgruff10 said:

I just found out that teachers in NJ will be getting the vaccine during phase 1b:  Those frontline workers include some 30 million people, including first responders such as firefighters and police, educators, including teachers, support staff and daycare workers, those who work in food and agriculture, manufacturing, corrections workers, U.S. Postal Service workers, public transit workers and grocery workers.

So I am not antivaxx at all but for some reason am a little worried about getting a vaccine that was made so quickly.  Any thoughts?  Does everyone here plan to get the vaccine once it becomes available?

I'm conflicted about it for sure. I have reservations about long-term side effects, things that don't show up right away. I was having a conversation with my SIL nurse who is also reluctant, and she's like "What happens if you end up with Alzheimers in 5 years and nobody knew?" I also find it sketchy that it only prevents symptoms from developing. It doesn't actually prevent contraction of the virus itself. That seems weird to me, that I could be walking around with this latent virus and who knows how long the vaccine works to keep the symptoms at bay. 
I should add I have never taken a flu vaccine in my life, and I've actually never developed flu. I know, I know -- it's not the fucking flu. I'm  just not one to take medicines unless it's totally necessary. My mom with heart failure has been on a cocktail of heart medications (BP, high lipids) for 30+ years and when I looked at the literature for her heart medicine, heart failure is an effect of long-term use for several of them. Go figure. Her anti-depressant can cause arythmia over the long term, so now she's got an arythmia. So now she's taking a blood thinner to prevent stroke from the arythmia, and the safety literature on that blood thinner cautions that it can cause the stroke it's supposed to prevent. It's just fucked up, modern medicine, as far as I'm concerned. 
I don't know what I'm going to do. Right now, I'm inclined to just keep washing my hands, wearing a mask, and staying away from people. It's not that hard to do and I will probably have the same amount of protection as the vaccine.

Why do you think this is weird? This is how our immune systems work. This is what happens to you every day - you walk around being exposed to a multitude of different potential pathogens and your immune system prevents you from getting sick. 

Rationalizations like these are going to keep the pandemic going. 

That’s not how other vaccines work is it? My understanding was always they give your body just enough to kill it and therefore is ready to kill it again if you’re exposed? My doctor told me to get the flu shot when I had kids so I wouldn’t expose them. 

So it does seem different that this vaccine doesn’t help your body kill the virus, just mute the symptoms. But at the end of the day, that’s what I care about. I wouldn’t care about getting the flu, or HIV for that matter, if there weren’t any symptoms.

It’s my understanding that all vaccines work to teach your immune system to recognize and fight a pathogen. The vaccine itself doesn’t fight the virus. Just like how your immune system learns to not get sick again from any natural infection. 

oftenreading

mace1229 said:

oftenreading said:

what dreams said:

mcgruff10 said:

I just found out that teachers in NJ will be getting the vaccine during phase 1b:  Those frontline workers include some 30 million people, including first responders such as firefighters and police, educators, including teachers, support staff and daycare workers, those who work in food and agriculture, manufacturing, corrections workers, U.S. Postal Service workers, public transit workers and grocery workers.

So I am not antivaxx at all but for some reason am a little worried about getting a vaccine that was made so quickly.  Any thoughts?  Does everyone here plan to get the vaccine once it becomes available?

I'm conflicted about it for sure. I have reservations about long-term side effects, things that don't show up right away. I was having a conversation with my SIL nurse who is also reluctant, and she's like "What happens if you end up with Alzheimers in 5 years and nobody knew?" I also find it sketchy that it only prevents symptoms from developing. It doesn't actually prevent contraction of the virus itself. That seems weird to me, that I could be walking around with this latent virus and who knows how long the vaccine works to keep the symptoms at bay. 
I should add I have never taken a flu vaccine in my life, and I've actually never developed flu. I know, I know -- it's not the fucking flu. I'm  just not one to take medicines unless it's totally necessary. My mom with heart failure has been on a cocktail of heart medications (BP, high lipids) for 30+ years and when I looked at the literature for her heart medicine, heart failure is an effect of long-term use for several of them. Go figure. Her anti-depressant can cause arythmia over the long term, so now she's got an arythmia. So now she's taking a blood thinner to prevent stroke from the arythmia, and the safety literature on that blood thinner cautions that it can cause the stroke it's supposed to prevent. It's just fucked up, modern medicine, as far as I'm concerned. 
I don't know what I'm going to do. Right now, I'm inclined to just keep washing my hands, wearing a mask, and staying away from people. It's not that hard to do and I will probably have the same amount of protection as the vaccine.

Why do you think this is weird? This is how our immune systems work. This is what happens to you every day - you walk around being exposed to a multitude of different potential pathogens and your immune system prevents you from getting sick. 

Rationalizations like these are going to keep the pandemic going. 

That’s not how other vaccines work is it? My understanding was always they give your body just enough to kill it and therefore is ready to kill it again if you’re exposed? My doctor told me to get the flu shot when I had kids so I wouldn’t expose them. 

So it does seem different that this vaccine doesn’t help your body kill the virus, just mute the symptoms. But at the end of the day, that’s what I care about. I wouldn’t care about getting the flu, or HIV for that matter, if there weren’t any symptoms.

You’ve misunderstood what I said, which is not surprising - immunology is complex and confusing. 

Vaccines use a variety of different techniques to stimulate our immune systems to react to neutralize what seems to be a neutralizing infectious agent. Classic vaccines were usually live attenuated - in which the infectious agent is still alive but is modified to cause very mild or no disease - or killed - in which the infectious agent was dead but still presented the antigenic parts (there are a couple of other types but these were most common). When administered, they cause the immune system to respond in several different ways, which include releasing cells that directly gobble up the invaders (especially if they are bacteria or fungi), producing antibodies, which attack the antigens (proteins) on the invader, and lymphocytes, which destroy the host cells that have been infected. This process is essentially the same whether you get a natural infection or whether you are responding to an immunization. 

Sometimes vaccines can produce a stronger and more protective immune response than getting the disease, depended on how the vaccine is formulated. 

All vaccines work to produce an immune response that will destroy the infectious agents before they can replicate enough to cause disease - so, they do not just “mute the symptoms”, any more than an immune response to an infection just “mutes the symptoms”.

what dreams

oftenreading said:

what dreams said:

oftenreading said:

what dreams said:

mcgruff10 said:

I just found out that teachers in NJ will be getting the vaccine during phase 1b:  Those frontline workers include some 30 million people, including first responders such as firefighters and police, educators, including teachers, support staff and daycare workers, those who work in food and agriculture, manufacturing, corrections workers, U.S. Postal Service workers, public transit workers and grocery workers.

So I am not antivaxx at all but for some reason am a little worried about getting a vaccine that was made so quickly.  Any thoughts?  Does everyone here plan to get the vaccine once it becomes available?

I'm conflicted about it for sure. I have reservations about long-term side effects, things that don't show up right away. I was having a conversation with my SIL nurse who is also reluctant, and she's like "What happens if you end up with Alzheimers in 5 years and nobody knew?" I also find it sketchy that it only prevents symptoms from developing. It doesn't actually prevent contraction of the virus itself. That seems weird to me, that I could be walking around with this latent virus and who knows how long the vaccine works to keep the symptoms at bay. 
I should add I have never taken a flu vaccine in my life, and I've actually never developed flu. I know, I know -- it's not the fucking flu. I'm  just not one to take medicines unless it's totally necessary. My mom with heart failure has been on a cocktail of heart medications (BP, high lipids) for 30+ years and when I looked at the literature for her heart medicine, heart failure is an effect of long-term use for several of them. Go figure. Her anti-depressant can cause arythmia over the long term, so now she's got an arythmia. So now she's taking a blood thinner to prevent stroke from the arythmia, and the safety literature on that blood thinner cautions that it can cause the stroke it's supposed to prevent. It's just fucked up, modern medicine, as far as I'm concerned. 
I don't know what I'm going to do. Right now, I'm inclined to just keep washing my hands, wearing a mask, and staying away from people. It's not that hard to do and I will probably have the same amount of protection as the vaccine.

Why do you think this is weird? This is how our immune systems work. This is what happens to you every day - you walk around being exposed to a multitude of different potential pathogens and your immune system prevents you from getting sick. 

Rationalizations like these are going to keep the pandemic going. 

Yes, that's how my natural immunity works; that's how the vaccine will work. And my next sentence said, we don't know yet how long the immunity from the virus will last. And we don't know what long-term side effects will occur. Maybe none, maybe something terrible. It is not irrational at all to think about any of these things . . . but seriously, I don't need your approval to make a completely personal decision about what to do with my body, so there's that.  

Even with a vaccine, the CDC tells us that we still have to wash our hands, wear a mask, and practice social distancing. So what the F difference does it make? To me, not much. With a vaccine, I can still catch the virus, I may still be able to pass it on to someone else asymptomatically (we don't know yet), and I still have to practice pandemic social behaviors. Sounds like a real promising solution to "getting back to normal."

From the CDC website (we're all freaking guinea pigs):
"It’s important for everyone to continue using all the tools available to help stop this pandemic as we learn more about how COVID-19 vaccines work in real-world conditions. Cover your mouth and nose with a mask when around others, stay at least 6 feet away from others, avoid crowds, and wash your hands often.​"

Nothing's changed.

"Nothing's changed" in the short term of a few weeks to months is not equivalent to "nothing will change in the long term, whether I get vaccination or not".

And if you post your opinion on something, don't be surprised when you get comments. 

You know what's even weirder? Someone who leaves his sweat all over the rock climbing gym telling me that I'm the reason the pandemic will never be over. I'm not the one in this thread going to restaurants, taking my kids to Santa or sporting events, flying on airplanes, going to the beach. Those are the people prolonging the pandemic. Not me. Talk to them. 

I never even said I've ruled out taking it anyway. I said I was conflicted. And so were you, at one point. So take your self-righteous bullshit somewhere else, and take the vaccine if you want. You'll be protected when someone like me breathes on you -- won't you?

lastexitlondon

Keep cool folks this  is a very volatile  time. Ive encountered  neighbours  crying. Myself ive spent the last 3 days in tears. This is a mental test many cant handle. 
Be kind to eachother we are all only doing our best and that degree is different  but i do wish this was over  but here its getting  so overwhelming with the media and tv blown up with mutant this and variant  this.  Along with  existing health problems  it is endless pain. 
Hold on tight 

mace1229

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

oftenreading said:

what dreams said:

mcgruff10 said:

I just found out that teachers in NJ will be getting the vaccine during phase 1b:  Those frontline workers include some 30 million people, including first responders such as firefighters and police, educators, including teachers, support staff and daycare workers, those who work in food and agriculture, manufacturing, corrections workers, U.S. Postal Service workers, public transit workers and grocery workers.

So I am not antivaxx at all but for some reason am a little worried about getting a vaccine that was made so quickly.  Any thoughts?  Does everyone here plan to get the vaccine once it becomes available?

I'm conflicted about it for sure. I have reservations about long-term side effects, things that don't show up right away. I was having a conversation with my SIL nurse who is also reluctant, and she's like "What happens if you end up with Alzheimers in 5 years and nobody knew?" I also find it sketchy that it only prevents symptoms from developing. It doesn't actually prevent contraction of the virus itself. That seems weird to me, that I could be walking around with this latent virus and who knows how long the vaccine works to keep the symptoms at bay. 
I should add I have never taken a flu vaccine in my life, and I've actually never developed flu. I know, I know -- it's not the fucking flu. I'm  just not one to take medicines unless it's totally necessary. My mom with heart failure has been on a cocktail of heart medications (BP, high lipids) for 30+ years and when I looked at the literature for her heart medicine, heart failure is an effect of long-term use for several of them. Go figure. Her anti-depressant can cause arythmia over the long term, so now she's got an arythmia. So now she's taking a blood thinner to prevent stroke from the arythmia, and the safety literature on that blood thinner cautions that it can cause the stroke it's supposed to prevent. It's just fucked up, modern medicine, as far as I'm concerned. 
I don't know what I'm going to do. Right now, I'm inclined to just keep washing my hands, wearing a mask, and staying away from people. It's not that hard to do and I will probably have the same amount of protection as the vaccine.

Why do you think this is weird? This is how our immune systems work. This is what happens to you every day - you walk around being exposed to a multitude of different potential pathogens and your immune system prevents you from getting sick. 

Rationalizations like these are going to keep the pandemic going. 

That’s not how other vaccines work is it? My understanding was always they give your body just enough to kill it and therefore is ready to kill it again if you’re exposed? My doctor told me to get the flu shot when I had kids so I wouldn’t expose them. 

So it does seem different that this vaccine doesn’t help your body kill the virus, just mute the symptoms. But at the end of the day, that’s what I care about. I wouldn’t care about getting the flu, or HIV for that matter, if there weren’t any symptoms.

It’s my understanding that all vaccines work to teach your immune system to recognize and fight a pathogen. The vaccine itself doesn’t fight the virus. Just like how your immune system learns to not get sick again from any natural infection. 

Yes, but it was said this vaccine just masks the symptoms and doesn’t do anything in terms of preventing one from getting it.
Ive never understood any vaccine to work that way. Like you said, teaches your body to fight it. The vaccine causes your body to build up a defense to the virus. 

I hadn’t heard this virus being different as in only masking the symptoms.

mace1229

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

oftenreading said:

what dreams said:

mcgruff10 said:

I just found out that teachers in NJ will be getting the vaccine during phase 1b:  Those frontline workers include some 30 million people, including first responders such as firefighters and police, educators, including teachers, support staff and daycare workers, those who work in food and agriculture, manufacturing, corrections workers, U.S. Postal Service workers, public transit workers and grocery workers.

So I am not antivaxx at all but for some reason am a little worried about getting a vaccine that was made so quickly.  Any thoughts?  Does everyone here plan to get the vaccine once it becomes available?

I'm conflicted about it for sure. I have reservations about long-term side effects, things that don't show up right away. I was having a conversation with my SIL nurse who is also reluctant, and she's like "What happens if you end up with Alzheimers in 5 years and nobody knew?" I also find it sketchy that it only prevents symptoms from developing. It doesn't actually prevent contraction of the virus itself. That seems weird to me, that I could be walking around with this latent virus and who knows how long the vaccine works to keep the symptoms at bay. 
I should add I have never taken a flu vaccine in my life, and I've actually never developed flu. I know, I know -- it's not the fucking flu. I'm  just not one to take medicines unless it's totally necessary. My mom with heart failure has been on a cocktail of heart medications (BP, high lipids) for 30+ years and when I looked at the literature for her heart medicine, heart failure is an effect of long-term use for several of them. Go figure. Her anti-depressant can cause arythmia over the long term, so now she's got an arythmia. So now she's taking a blood thinner to prevent stroke from the arythmia, and the safety literature on that blood thinner cautions that it can cause the stroke it's supposed to prevent. It's just fucked up, modern medicine, as far as I'm concerned. 
I don't know what I'm going to do. Right now, I'm inclined to just keep washing my hands, wearing a mask, and staying away from people. It's not that hard to do and I will probably have the same amount of protection as the vaccine.

Why do you think this is weird? This is how our immune systems work. This is what happens to you every day - you walk around being exposed to a multitude of different potential pathogens and your immune system prevents you from getting sick. 

Rationalizations like these are going to keep the pandemic going. 

That’s not how other vaccines work is it? My understanding was always they give your body just enough to kill it and therefore is ready to kill it again if you’re exposed? My doctor told me to get the flu shot when I had kids so I wouldn’t expose them. 

So it does seem different that this vaccine doesn’t help your body kill the virus, just mute the symptoms. But at the end of the day, that’s what I care about. I wouldn’t care about getting the flu, or HIV for that matter, if there weren’t any symptoms.

You’ve misunderstood what I said, which is not surprising - immunology is complex and confusing. 

Vaccines use a variety of different techniques to stimulate our immune systems to react to neutralize what seems to be a neutralizing infectious agent. Classic vaccines were usually live attenuated - in which the infectious agent is still alive but is modified to cause very mild or no disease - or killed - in which the infectious agent was dead but still presented the antigenic parts (there are a couple of other types but these were most common). When administered, they cause the immune system to respond in several different ways, which include releasing cells that directly gobble up the invaders (especially if they are bacteria or fungi), producing antibodies, which attack the antigens (proteins) on the invader, and lymphocytes, which destroy the host cells that have been infected. This process is essentially the same whether you get a natural infection or whether you are responding to an immunization. 

Sometimes vaccines can produce a stronger and more protective immune response than getting the disease, depended on how the vaccine is formulated. 

All vaccines work to produce an immune response that will destroy the infectious agents before they can replicate enough to cause disease - so, they do not just “mute the symptoms”, any more than an immune response to an infection just “mutes the symptoms”.

My misunderstanding was I thought you agreed with what you bolded based on your reply. What Dreams said it just masks the symptoms and you asked why she thought that was weird. I thought there was some big news I missed about how this vaccine is different than others or something. 

tempo_n_groove

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-22/leading-indian-covid-vaccine-maker-readies-for-uphill-roll-out

Only 60% efficacy.  Ouch.  They say that is conservative though.  I was rooting for this company.

lastexitlondon

tempo_n_groove said:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-22/leading-indian-covid-vaccine-maker-readies-for-uphill-roll-out

Only 60% efficacy.  Ouch.  They say that is conservative though.  I was rooting for this company.

The flu shot is 40-60% so thats ok

tempo_n_groove

lastexitlondon said:

tempo_n_groove said:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-22/leading-indian-covid-vaccine-maker-readies-for-uphill-roll-out

Only 60% efficacy.  Ouch.  They say that is conservative though.  I was rooting for this company.

The flu shot is 40-60% so thats ok

When you see the 90-95% rates of the 2 here it is low but still effective.