Riots/Looting/Violence and general post-George Floyd madness

nicknyr15 · August 2020

Ledbetterman10 said:

static111 said:

Or you know the cops could stop killing black people, then things would never get this far.

Or you know black people could stop resisting arrest, then things would never get to the point of escalation. Jacob Blake was wanted on a sexual assault charge. And no, I'm not saying he deserves to be shot for that. And I do think the cops should've had him subdued before he could even walk around the front of his car to the drivers' side door. But if you want to play the one-thing-leads-to-another game, it all starts with him being charged with sexual assault, then not cooperating with the police during the arrest.

Some people hate cops. Nothing you can do about it. People who use words like blue monsters and pigs will never be able to objectively look at these situations. They will never be able to put themselves in a cops shoes or look at actual statistics. Cops saving lives is not news. It’s their job. But they’re not robots and these situations will unfortunately happen. No matter how much training a cop goes through, it’s a lot different than a real life situation. When you or me make a mistake at our job, it’s not a big deal. A little different for cops.

PJNB · August 2020

dignin said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

static111 said:

Or you know the cops could stop killing black people, then things would never get this far.

Or you know black people could stop resisting arrest, then things would never get to the point of escalation. Jacob Blake was wanted on a sexual assault charge. And no, I'm not saying he deserves to be shot for that. And I do think the cops should've had him subdued before he could even walk around the front of his car to the drivers' side door. But if you want to play the one-thing-leads-to-another game, it all starts with him being charged with sexual assault, then not cooperating with the police during the arrest.

I don't know much about it, did they know who he was and that he was wanted for sexual assault and we're they trying to arrest him before they shot him? Honest questions.

Ya that changes a lot for me too if true. I mean if they ran up his name and he had a warrant for his arrest and then they drew their guns as he was not cooperating I get it. That said they still allowed him to slowly walk around his vehicle knowing if he opened that door they were going to shoot. They should have not allowed it to have gotten that far imo. Again easy to say that watching a video but just my opinion.

mace1229 · August 2020

dignin said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

static111 said:

Or you know the cops could stop killing black people, then things would never get this far.

Or you know black people could stop resisting arrest, then things would never get to the point of escalation. Jacob Blake was wanted on a sexual assault charge. And no, I'm not saying he deserves to be shot for that. And I do think the cops should've had him subdued before he could even walk around the front of his car to the drivers' side door. But if you want to play the one-thing-leads-to-another game, it all starts with him being charged with sexual assault, then not cooperating with the police during the arrest.

I don't know much about it, did they know who he was and that he was wanted for sexual assault and we're they trying to arrest him before they shot him? Honest questions.

Just a guess, but probably they did. I imagine that will all come out soon. I saw a video from another angle on the morning news. It looked like they tried to arrest him on the other side of the car before resisted and walked away.
Its been said before, I don't know why they didn't tackle him or something if they were already trying to resist him. Maybe they under-reacted because of everything going on and their under reaction caused them to over react a few seconds later. Maybe no, we'll probably never know.

Ledbetterman10 · August 2020

static111 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

static111 said:

Or you know the cops could stop killing black people, then things would never get this far.

Or you know black people could stop resisting arrest, then things would never get to the point of escalation. Jacob Blake was wanted on a sexual assault charge. And no, I'm not saying he deserves to be shot for that. And I do think the cops should've had him subdued before he could even walk around the front of his car to the drivers' side door. But if you want to play the one-thing-leads-to-another game, it all starts with him being charged with sexual assault, then not cooperating with the police during the arrest.

This from another thread. A statement from the victims sister. Try looking at it from this POV.
https://twitter.com/ArlanWasHere/status/1298427121023348736?s=19

Yeah from her point of view, I'd say the same things she is. I'd portray him a victim, which he is to a degree. Again, it shouldn't have come to that. There's no reason he should've been allowed to walk around the car and reach into it. I'm not taking one side (the police) or the other (Blake). I'm just saying he set in motion the scenario that ultimatly got him shot. That's my point of view. If differs, as it should, from his sister's.

static111 · August 2020

Ledbetterman10 said:

dignin said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

static111 said:

Or you know the cops could stop killing black people, then things would never get this far.

Or you know black people could stop resisting arrest, then things would never get to the point of escalation. Jacob Blake was wanted on a sexual assault charge. And no, I'm not saying he deserves to be shot for that. And I do think the cops should've had him subdued before he could even walk around the front of his car to the drivers' side door. But if you want to play the one-thing-leads-to-another game, it all starts with him being charged with sexual assault, then not cooperating with the police during the arrest.

I don't know much about it, did they know who he was and that he was wanted for sexual assault and we're they trying to arrest him before they shot him? Honest questions.

Just going by this BBC report, it says...

"Court records show there was an active arrest warrant against Mr Blake, related to charges of sexual assault, trespassing and disorderly conduct. But it is unclear if police were aware of this at the time of his shooting."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53909766

So that, and the 22-second video is all we can really go on at this point.

We also don’t know if Blake knew if he had an arrest warrant. Which all is aside from the fact that arrest warrant or not criminal history or not, cops are not the administers of capital punishment and need to stop killing black people for “resisting arrest”. Because last I saw “resisting arrest” was not a punishable by death with no due process offense.

PJPOWER · August 2020

dignin said:

PJPOWER said:

dignin said:

PJPOWER said:

dignin said:

PJPOWER said:

PJNB said:

PJPOWER said:

dignin said:

PJPOWER said:

dignin said:

bbiggs said:

dignin said:

bbiggs said:

dignin said:

bbiggs said:

^ Beating up innocent, elderly business owners while destructing cities is all part of the process for necessary change. Didn’t you know?

In case this needs to be said, yes, I’m being sarcastic.

You're not going to find anyone here who thinks that okay, so why the strawman?

Looting, burning buildings and destructing is condoned and rationalized all the time here.

I missed the ones about beating up 70 year olds. Maybe point me to those ones, the ones you were making reference too.

Well, maybe if you read my comment, you'd understand that I didn't say anything about "finding anyone here who thinks that's okay." The point is that if necessary change is the objective, looting, burning, destructing and beating is not the way to accomplish it. They all go hand in hand these days.

Maybe some people can understand but not condone the looting and destruction of property but not the assault on an elderly man (like you have obviously implied as a cheap shot). The two don't have to go hand in hand.

I, for one, think that anyone that condones looting, destruction of property, or assaulting innocents is an asshat deplorable.

But you condone armed men murdering those looters.

That's pretty fucked up.

No, I am not condoning murder. I condone people stopping looters and protecting themselves and their property by whatever means they need to do so. You condone looting, that’s fucked up.

Is that not murder or am I missing something here? Is there a law in the USA that allows you to sit in front of a business and shoot people that potentially are going to loot it? Even if they are in the act of looting are you really just allowed to mow them down? Serious question as I really have no clue how the law works. Like if a guy throws a brick through a window can you really just shoot them down if they are going in grabbing a bag of Doritos and leaving?

It is not the same as murder. And in the legal sense, there is a huge difference in trying to “kill” someone and trying to “stop” someone. And yes, there are laws in the US that allow people to use firearms to protect their private property. They are different state by state. I cannot think of any rights people have to loot places or burn places down...

We don't know whether that was their property. And it didn't look like buddy was protecting any property when he was walking through the streets with an assault weapon. Then shooting the people trying to disarm him.

That’s a fair way of spinning things, but the shooter is going to argue that he was being attacked and fired in self defense...disarming or “trying to take his gun”? I’ll sit back and eat popcorn while the lawyers drool over this question.

What business was that guy protecting? You're the one spinning without any facts.

And care to apologize for saying I condone looting. And implying I'm a deplorable asshat?

Everything that I’ve read has stated that he was with a group protecting businesses, but all of the news isn’t in and it’s early in the investigation.
Fair enough, if you do not condone looting, then you are not a deplorable asshat, but still reiterate that if you do...you are. Don’t you agree?

Great apology.

It wasn’t really an apology at all.

OnWis97 · August 2020

nicknyr15 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

static111 said:

Or you know the cops could stop killing black people, then things would never get this far.

Or you know black people could stop resisting arrest, then things would never get to the point of escalation. Jacob Blake was wanted on a sexual assault charge. And no, I'm not saying he deserves to be shot for that. And I do think the cops should've had him subdued before he could even walk around the front of his car to the drivers' side door. But if you want to play the one-thing-leads-to-another game, it all starts with him being charged with sexual assault, then not cooperating with the police during the arrest.

Some people hate cops. Nothing you can do about it. People who use words like blue monsters and pigs will never be able to objectively look at these situations. They will never be able to put themselves in a cops shoes or look at actual statistics. Cops saving lives is not news. It’s their job. But they’re not robots and these situations will unfortunately happen. No matter how much training a cop goes through, it’s a lot different than a real life situation. When you or me make a mistake at our job, it’s not a big deal. A little different for cops.

Whereas people who don the thin blue line sticker and say "blue lives matter" are able to. That's the difference. I know lots of terrific people people who back the blue and they are all about nuance. In fact none of them thinks it's OK for cops to shoot black people first and get Dylan Roof Burger King.

When Kyle Rittenhouse becomes a cop and shoots a black guy walking away from him, I'll try to walk in his shoes; though it'll be hard for me to relate to having fantasies of shooting people dating back to my teens.

dignin · August 2020

PJPOWER said:

dignin said:

PJPOWER said:

dignin said:

PJPOWER said:

dignin said:

PJPOWER said:

PJNB said:

PJPOWER said:

dignin said:

PJPOWER said:

dignin said:

bbiggs said:

dignin said:

bbiggs said:

dignin said:

bbiggs said:

^ Beating up innocent, elderly business owners while destructing cities is all part of the process for necessary change. Didn’t you know?

In case this needs to be said, yes, I’m being sarcastic.

You're not going to find anyone here who thinks that okay, so why the strawman?

Looting, burning buildings and destructing is condoned and rationalized all the time here.

I missed the ones about beating up 70 year olds. Maybe point me to those ones, the ones you were making reference too.

Well, maybe if you read my comment, you'd understand that I didn't say anything about "finding anyone here who thinks that's okay." The point is that if necessary change is the objective, looting, burning, destructing and beating is not the way to accomplish it. They all go hand in hand these days.

Maybe some people can understand but not condone the looting and destruction of property but not the assault on an elderly man (like you have obviously implied as a cheap shot). The two don't have to go hand in hand.

I, for one, think that anyone that condones looting, destruction of property, or assaulting innocents is an asshat deplorable.

But you condone armed men murdering those looters.

That's pretty fucked up.

No, I am not condoning murder. I condone people stopping looters and protecting themselves and their property by whatever means they need to do so. You condone looting, that’s fucked up.

Is that not murder or am I missing something here? Is there a law in the USA that allows you to sit in front of a business and shoot people that potentially are going to loot it? Even if they are in the act of looting are you really just allowed to mow them down? Serious question as I really have no clue how the law works. Like if a guy throws a brick through a window can you really just shoot them down if they are going in grabbing a bag of Doritos and leaving?

It is not the same as murder. And in the legal sense, there is a huge difference in trying to “kill” someone and trying to “stop” someone. And yes, there are laws in the US that allow people to use firearms to protect their private property. They are different state by state. I cannot think of any rights people have to loot places or burn places down...

We don't know whether that was their property. And it didn't look like buddy was protecting any property when he was walking through the streets with an assault weapon. Then shooting the people trying to disarm him.

That’s a fair way of spinning things, but the shooter is going to argue that he was being attacked and fired in self defense...disarming or “trying to take his gun”? I’ll sit back and eat popcorn while the lawyers drool over this question.

What business was that guy protecting? You're the one spinning without any facts.

And care to apologize for saying I condone looting. And implying I'm a deplorable asshat?

Everything that I’ve read has stated that he was with a group protecting businesses, but all of the news isn’t in and it’s early in the investigation.
Fair enough, if you do not condone looting, then you are not a deplorable asshat, but still reiterate that if you do...you are. Don’t you agree?

Great apology.

It wasn’t really an apology at all.

Really? You had me totally fooled. It takes a reasonable person to admit a mistake and apologize for using insults. But, I guess its foolish of me to expect more from a Trump voter. True colours and all.

Ledbetterman10 · August 2020

static111 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

dignin said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

static111 said:

Or you know the cops could stop killing black people, then things would never get this far.

Or you know black people could stop resisting arrest, then things would never get to the point of escalation. Jacob Blake was wanted on a sexual assault charge. And no, I'm not saying he deserves to be shot for that. And I do think the cops should've had him subdued before he could even walk around the front of his car to the drivers' side door. But if you want to play the one-thing-leads-to-another game, it all starts with him being charged with sexual assault, then not cooperating with the police during the arrest.

I don't know much about it, did they know who he was and that he was wanted for sexual assault and we're they trying to arrest him before they shot him? Honest questions.

Just going by this BBC report, it says...

"Court records show there was an active arrest warrant against Mr Blake, related to charges of sexual assault, trespassing and disorderly conduct. But it is unclear if police were aware of this at the time of his shooting."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53909766

So that, and the 22-second video is all we can really go on at this point.

We also don’t know if Blake knew if he had an arrest warrant. Which all is aside from the fact that arrest warrant or not criminal history or not, cops are not the administers of capital punishment and need to stop killing black people for “resisting arrest”. Because last I saw “resisting arrest” was not a punishable by death with no due process offense.

No, resisting arrest isn't punishable by death. But you sure run the risk of being shot if you walk away from police and reach into your car like that. Would you do that? If the police were questioning you, would you walk away from them, open your car door, and reach in?

hedonist · August 2020

If this tiny, ultimately-inconsequential microcosm of us can't discuss shit or even disagree civilly, what makes anyone think progress could or would be made on a larger scale?

dignin · August 2020

hedonist said:

If this tiny, ultimately-inconsequential microcosm of us can't discuss shit or even disagree civilly, what makes anyone think progress could or would be made on a larger scale?

Because progress still happens all the time all over the world.

Ledbetterman10 · August 2020

He's right. The left's silence on this could hurt Biden.

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1298576558605471751?s=20

Glorified KC · August 2020

bbiggs said:

Glorified KC said:

bbiggs said:

Glorified KC said:

bbiggs said:

cincybearcat said:

PJNB said:

PJPOWER said:

PJNB said:

PJPOWER said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Shit is out of control. One of the rioters was shot in the head in Kenosha last night:

Graphic:
https://twitter.com/livesmattershow/status/1298484404918972417?s=21

And there was a madman with an assault-style weapon shooting people. Not sure if it’s the same guy that shot the guy in the first video. But he shoots two people at short range in this video:

Graphic:
https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1298507433975799809?s=21

Just complete and utter fucking chaos.

There ya have it...That is going to be the result of looting and burning people’s businesses. The business owners can not afford to just let their businesses get burned to the ground. They are going to start fighting back...and I don’t blame them. What did they think would happen?

You think its ok to execute someone for looting?

I think it’s okay for people to protect their property.

So thats a yes?

It's not a great question, you are pretending it's all happening in a vacuum.

It's Newton's 3rd law.

1) Cops shoot black man in back
2) Protests
3) People using protest to destroy and loot
4) Leadership fails to adequately handle the situation
5) People take action into their own hands

Stupid gun laws + stupid police norms + stupid looters = Kenosha, WI

When we leave regular citizens to make the determination on appropriate level of force....we are in big trouble

Trick question. When this de-funding of the police movement continues to progress, do we think more or less people will start taking matters into their own hands? I think we're seeing the answer very clearly.

Less, because the idea is there will be less situations for those to "take matters" into whomever's hands. It's about trying to rebuild the community infrastructure, because it has suffered from decades of neglect from white people vacating those neighborhoods because they couldn't handle the thought of equality with black people. Rather than stay and continue to sustain or further build the economy, they jumped ship and it was left behind to people who couldn't financially support what had been built to that point. Defunding the police, or better said to try to build communities through pushing more budget toward public services is not a short-term fix. It will take several years to build. What short-term fix in the past 50 years has made it more safe for a black person when apprehended by police? It's this constant "retraining" or "reform" that is nothing more than a CYA that constantly moves the system laterally.

You're a trusting man, apparently. I don't have the faith that you do. If what you say is correct and this de-funding movement results in some better world, I'm not sure what will be left standing by the time that happens. Might as well scrape these cities and start from the ground up at this rate.

The reason why this shit is happening is because there are black men still being gunned down or strangled to death. The opportunists can't find an opportunity to burn cities to the ground if there isn't a reason to protest. Jesus, you think what is going on right now is going to fix the problem? What is your solution to stop all of this?

Don't have a solution and never claimed to have one. Many here think they have all the answers. I sure as fuck don't. But taking cops off the street to let cities burn to the ground doesn't do a bit of good.

I never said you had one, but if you're going to poke holes in other's logic, at least have something to contribute. Defunding doesn't have to take cops off of the street. Police budgets aren't all just about head count. Plus who's to say cities will burn if there are less cops? Cities are burning because of bad cops. Not every cop is bad, but there is a systemic problem that needs to be issued and just saying less cops = cities to rubble isn't looking further than their hand in front of their face.

OnWis97 · August 2020

Glorified KC said:

bbiggs said:

Glorified KC said:

bbiggs said:

Glorified KC said:

bbiggs said:

cincybearcat said:

PJNB said:

PJPOWER said:

PJNB said:

PJPOWER said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Shit is out of control. One of the rioters was shot in the head in Kenosha last night:

Graphic:
https://twitter.com/livesmattershow/status/1298484404918972417?s=21

And there was a madman with an assault-style weapon shooting people. Not sure if it’s the same guy that shot the guy in the first video. But he shoots two people at short range in this video:

Graphic:
https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1298507433975799809?s=21

Just complete and utter fucking chaos.

There ya have it...That is going to be the result of looting and burning people’s businesses. The business owners can not afford to just let their businesses get burned to the ground. They are going to start fighting back...and I don’t blame them. What did they think would happen?

You think its ok to execute someone for looting?

I think it’s okay for people to protect their property.

So thats a yes?

It's not a great question, you are pretending it's all happening in a vacuum.

It's Newton's 3rd law.

1) Cops shoot black man in back
2) Protests
3) People using protest to destroy and loot
4) Leadership fails to adequately handle the situation
5) People take action into their own hands

Stupid gun laws + stupid police norms + stupid looters = Kenosha, WI

When we leave regular citizens to make the determination on appropriate level of force....we are in big trouble

Trick question. When this de-funding of the police movement continues to progress, do we think more or less people will start taking matters into their own hands? I think we're seeing the answer very clearly.

Less, because the idea is there will be less situations for those to "take matters" into whomever's hands. It's about trying to rebuild the community infrastructure, because it has suffered from decades of neglect from white people vacating those neighborhoods because they couldn't handle the thought of equality with black people. Rather than stay and continue to sustain or further build the economy, they jumped ship and it was left behind to people who couldn't financially support what had been built to that point. Defunding the police, or better said to try to build communities through pushing more budget toward public services is not a short-term fix. It will take several years to build. What short-term fix in the past 50 years has made it more safe for a black person when apprehended by police? It's this constant "retraining" or "reform" that is nothing more than a CYA that constantly moves the system laterally.

You're a trusting man, apparently. I don't have the faith that you do. If what you say is correct and this de-funding movement results in some better world, I'm not sure what will be left standing by the time that happens. Might as well scrape these cities and start from the ground up at this rate.

The reason why this shit is happening is because there are black men still being gunned down or strangled to death. The opportunists can't find an opportunity to burn cities to the ground if there isn't a reason to protest. Jesus, you think what is going on right now is going to fix the problem? What is your solution to stop all of this?

Don't have a solution and never claimed to have one. Many here think they have all the answers. I sure as fuck don't. But taking cops off the street to let cities burn to the ground doesn't do a bit of good.

I never said you had one, but if you're going to poke holes in other's logic, at least have something to contribute. Defunding doesn't have to take cops off of the street. Police budgets aren't all just about head count.

"Defunding" is just brutal terminology.

Glorified KC · August 2020

OnWis97 said:

Glorified KC said:

bbiggs said:

Glorified KC said:

bbiggs said:

Glorified KC said:

bbiggs said:

cincybearcat said:

PJNB said:

PJPOWER said:

PJNB said:

PJPOWER said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Shit is out of control. One of the rioters was shot in the head in Kenosha last night:

Graphic:
https://twitter.com/livesmattershow/status/1298484404918972417?s=21

And there was a madman with an assault-style weapon shooting people. Not sure if it’s the same guy that shot the guy in the first video. But he shoots two people at short range in this video:

Graphic:
https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1298507433975799809?s=21

Just complete and utter fucking chaos.

There ya have it...That is going to be the result of looting and burning people’s businesses. The business owners can not afford to just let their businesses get burned to the ground. They are going to start fighting back...and I don’t blame them. What did they think would happen?

You think its ok to execute someone for looting?

I think it’s okay for people to protect their property.

So thats a yes?

It's not a great question, you are pretending it's all happening in a vacuum.

It's Newton's 3rd law.

1) Cops shoot black man in back
2) Protests
3) People using protest to destroy and loot
4) Leadership fails to adequately handle the situation
5) People take action into their own hands

Stupid gun laws + stupid police norms + stupid looters = Kenosha, WI

When we leave regular citizens to make the determination on appropriate level of force....we are in big trouble

Trick question. When this de-funding of the police movement continues to progress, do we think more or less people will start taking matters into their own hands? I think we're seeing the answer very clearly.

Less, because the idea is there will be less situations for those to "take matters" into whomever's hands. It's about trying to rebuild the community infrastructure, because it has suffered from decades of neglect from white people vacating those neighborhoods because they couldn't handle the thought of equality with black people. Rather than stay and continue to sustain or further build the economy, they jumped ship and it was left behind to people who couldn't financially support what had been built to that point. Defunding the police, or better said to try to build communities through pushing more budget toward public services is not a short-term fix. It will take several years to build. What short-term fix in the past 50 years has made it more safe for a black person when apprehended by police? It's this constant "retraining" or "reform" that is nothing more than a CYA that constantly moves the system laterally.

You're a trusting man, apparently. I don't have the faith that you do. If what you say is correct and this de-funding movement results in some better world, I'm not sure what will be left standing by the time that happens. Might as well scrape these cities and start from the ground up at this rate.

The reason why this shit is happening is because there are black men still being gunned down or strangled to death. The opportunists can't find an opportunity to burn cities to the ground if there isn't a reason to protest. Jesus, you think what is going on right now is going to fix the problem? What is your solution to stop all of this?

Don't have a solution and never claimed to have one. Many here think they have all the answers. I sure as fuck don't. But taking cops off the street to let cities burn to the ground doesn't do a bit of good.

I never said you had one, but if you're going to poke holes in other's logic, at least have something to contribute. Defunding doesn't have to take cops off of the street. Police budgets aren't all just about head count.

"Defunding" is just brutal terminology.

Yeah, it does come off as "down sizing," which I don't believe is the intention. It's not weaponizing and militarizing police officers unnecessarily. There is a lot of money being put into police budgets in several cities, some could be allocated to trying to build less impoverished communities that cops are now over-policing.

cincybearcat · August 2020

Glorified KC said:

OnWis97 said:

Glorified KC said:

bbiggs said:

Glorified KC said:

bbiggs said:

Glorified KC said:

bbiggs said:

cincybearcat said:

PJNB said:

PJPOWER said:

PJNB said:

PJPOWER said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Shit is out of control. One of the rioters was shot in the head in Kenosha last night:

Graphic:
https://twitter.com/livesmattershow/status/1298484404918972417?s=21

And there was a madman with an assault-style weapon shooting people. Not sure if it’s the same guy that shot the guy in the first video. But he shoots two people at short range in this video:

Graphic:
https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1298507433975799809?s=21

Just complete and utter fucking chaos.

There ya have it...That is going to be the result of looting and burning people’s businesses. The business owners can not afford to just let their businesses get burned to the ground. They are going to start fighting back...and I don’t blame them. What did they think would happen?

You think its ok to execute someone for looting?

I think it’s okay for people to protect their property.

So thats a yes?

It's not a great question, you are pretending it's all happening in a vacuum.

It's Newton's 3rd law.

1) Cops shoot black man in back
2) Protests
3) People using protest to destroy and loot
4) Leadership fails to adequately handle the situation
5) People take action into their own hands

Stupid gun laws + stupid police norms + stupid looters = Kenosha, WI

When we leave regular citizens to make the determination on appropriate level of force....we are in big trouble

Trick question. When this de-funding of the police movement continues to progress, do we think more or less people will start taking matters into their own hands? I think we're seeing the answer very clearly.

Less, because the idea is there will be less situations for those to "take matters" into whomever's hands. It's about trying to rebuild the community infrastructure, because it has suffered from decades of neglect from white people vacating those neighborhoods because they couldn't handle the thought of equality with black people. Rather than stay and continue to sustain or further build the economy, they jumped ship and it was left behind to people who couldn't financially support what had been built to that point. Defunding the police, or better said to try to build communities through pushing more budget toward public services is not a short-term fix. It will take several years to build. What short-term fix in the past 50 years has made it more safe for a black person when apprehended by police? It's this constant "retraining" or "reform" that is nothing more than a CYA that constantly moves the system laterally.

You're a trusting man, apparently. I don't have the faith that you do. If what you say is correct and this de-funding movement results in some better world, I'm not sure what will be left standing by the time that happens. Might as well scrape these cities and start from the ground up at this rate.

The reason why this shit is happening is because there are black men still being gunned down or strangled to death. The opportunists can't find an opportunity to burn cities to the ground if there isn't a reason to protest. Jesus, you think what is going on right now is going to fix the problem? What is your solution to stop all of this?

Don't have a solution and never claimed to have one. Many here think they have all the answers. I sure as fuck don't. But taking cops off the street to let cities burn to the ground doesn't do a bit of good.

I never said you had one, but if you're going to poke holes in other's logic, at least have something to contribute. Defunding doesn't have to take cops off of the street. Police budgets aren't all just about head count.

"Defunding" is just brutal terminology.

Yeah, it does come off as "down sizing," which I don't believe is the intention. It's not weaponizing and militarizing police officers unnecessarily. There is a lot of money being put into police budgets in several cities, some could be allocated to trying to build less impoverished communities that cops are now over-policing.

It's worse than down-sizing. It sounds like eliminating. Idiots using that branding.

PJPOWER · August 2020

dignin said:

PJPOWER said:

dignin said:

PJPOWER said:

dignin said:

PJPOWER said:

dignin said:

PJPOWER said:

PJNB said:

PJPOWER said:

dignin said:

PJPOWER said:

dignin said:

bbiggs said:

dignin said:

bbiggs said:

dignin said:

bbiggs said:

^ Beating up innocent, elderly business owners while destructing cities is all part of the process for necessary change. Didn’t you know?

In case this needs to be said, yes, I’m being sarcastic.

You're not going to find anyone here who thinks that okay, so why the strawman?

Looting, burning buildings and destructing is condoned and rationalized all the time here.

I missed the ones about beating up 70 year olds. Maybe point me to those ones, the ones you were making reference too.

Well, maybe if you read my comment, you'd understand that I didn't say anything about "finding anyone here who thinks that's okay." The point is that if necessary change is the objective, looting, burning, destructing and beating is not the way to accomplish it. They all go hand in hand these days.

Maybe some people can understand but not condone the looting and destruction of property but not the assault on an elderly man (like you have obviously implied as a cheap shot). The two don't have to go hand in hand.

I, for one, think that anyone that condones looting, destruction of property, or assaulting innocents is an asshat deplorable.

But you condone armed men murdering those looters.

That's pretty fucked up.

No, I am not condoning murder. I condone people stopping looters and protecting themselves and their property by whatever means they need to do so. You condone looting, that’s fucked up.

Is that not murder or am I missing something here? Is there a law in the USA that allows you to sit in front of a business and shoot people that potentially are going to loot it? Even if they are in the act of looting are you really just allowed to mow them down? Serious question as I really have no clue how the law works. Like if a guy throws a brick through a window can you really just shoot them down if they are going in grabbing a bag of Doritos and leaving?

It is not the same as murder. And in the legal sense, there is a huge difference in trying to “kill” someone and trying to “stop” someone. And yes, there are laws in the US that allow people to use firearms to protect their private property. They are different state by state. I cannot think of any rights people have to loot places or burn places down...

We don't know whether that was their property. And it didn't look like buddy was protecting any property when he was walking through the streets with an assault weapon. Then shooting the people trying to disarm him.

That’s a fair way of spinning things, but the shooter is going to argue that he was being attacked and fired in self defense...disarming or “trying to take his gun”? I’ll sit back and eat popcorn while the lawyers drool over this question.

What business was that guy protecting? You're the one spinning without any facts.

And care to apologize for saying I condone looting. And implying I'm a deplorable asshat?

Everything that I’ve read has stated that he was with a group protecting businesses, but all of the news isn’t in and it’s early in the investigation.
Fair enough, if you do not condone looting, then you are not a deplorable asshat, but still reiterate that if you do...you are. Don’t you agree?

Great apology.

It wasn’t really an apology at all.

Really? You had me totally fooled. It takes a reasonable person to admit a mistake and apologize for using insults. But, I guess its foolish of me to expect more from a Trump voter. True colours and all.

Boo fucking hoo

static111 · August 2020

nicknyr15 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

static111 said:

Or you know the cops could stop killing black people, then things would never get this far.

Or you know black people could stop resisting arrest, then things would never get to the point of escalation. Jacob Blake was wanted on a sexual assault charge. And no, I'm not saying he deserves to be shot for that. And I do think the cops should've had him subdued before he could even walk around the front of his car to the drivers' side door. But if you want to play the one-thing-leads-to-another game, it all starts with him being charged with sexual assault, then not cooperating with the police during the arrest.

Some people hate cops. Nothing you can do about it. People who use words like blue monsters and pigs will never be able to objectively look at these situations. They will never be able to put themselves in a cops shoes or look at actual statistics. Cops saving lives is not news. It’s their job. But they’re not robots and these situations will unfortunately happen. No matter how much training a cop goes through, it’s a lot different than a real life situation. When you or me make a mistake at our job, it’s not a big deal. A little different for cops.

Nice potshot. My best friends dad was a sherrifs deputy. Retired with full pension respected by cops, incarcerated individuals and the citizens alike. I would never refer to him as a blue monster or a pig nor do I hate cops or lack the ability to see things from a different point of view. My friends dad was demoted 3 years before retirement for supporting a more progressive candidate for sheriff with justification as some minor bullshit. The sitting sheriff was a PIG and was hoping that he would get my friends dad to quit. At some point American police culture went from Mayberry to Rosco P Coltrane to the Terminator. That is not ok and justifying any of this is horrible. If the cops want to stop being seen as distrustful killers maybe we need to advocate for change and maybe the cops themselves can stop playing the victim and address that yes there are huge problems with the current state of policing in America. Until then 100 good cops covering for 1 bad cop still equals 101 bad cops.

static111 · August 2020

Ledbetterman10 said:

static111 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

dignin said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

static111 said:

Or you know the cops could stop killing black people, then things would never get this far.

Or you know black people could stop resisting arrest, then things would never get to the point of escalation. Jacob Blake was wanted on a sexual assault charge. And no, I'm not saying he deserves to be shot for that. And I do think the cops should've had him subdued before he could even walk around the front of his car to the drivers' side door. But if you want to play the one-thing-leads-to-another game, it all starts with him being charged with sexual assault, then not cooperating with the police during the arrest.

I don't know much about it, did they know who he was and that he was wanted for sexual assault and we're they trying to arrest him before they shot him? Honest questions.

Just going by this BBC report, it says...

"Court records show there was an active arrest warrant against Mr Blake, related to charges of sexual assault, trespassing and disorderly conduct. But it is unclear if police were aware of this at the time of his shooting."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53909766

So that, and the 22-second video is all we can really go on at this point.

We also don’t know if Blake knew if he had an arrest warrant. Which all is aside from the fact that arrest warrant or not criminal history or not, cops are not the administers of capital punishment and need to stop killing black people for “resisting arrest”. Because last I saw “resisting arrest” was not a punishable by death with no due process offense.

No, resisting arrest isn't punishable by death. But you sure run the risk of being shot if you walk away from police and reach into your car like that. Would you do that? If the police were questioning you, would you walk away from them, open your car door, and reach in?

I’m not him what I would Do is irrelevant. The main point is that cops could have done many things to avoid shooting him 7 times in the back And likely prevented a riot.

Ledbetterman10 · August 2020

static111 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

static111 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

dignin said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

static111 said:

Or you know the cops could stop killing black people, then things would never get this far.

Or you know black people could stop resisting arrest, then things would never get to the point of escalation. Jacob Blake was wanted on a sexual assault charge. And no, I'm not saying he deserves to be shot for that. And I do think the cops should've had him subdued before he could even walk around the front of his car to the drivers' side door. But if you want to play the one-thing-leads-to-another game, it all starts with him being charged with sexual assault, then not cooperating with the police during the arrest.

I don't know much about it, did they know who he was and that he was wanted for sexual assault and we're they trying to arrest him before they shot him? Honest questions.

Just going by this BBC report, it says...

"Court records show there was an active arrest warrant against Mr Blake, related to charges of sexual assault, trespassing and disorderly conduct. But it is unclear if police were aware of this at the time of his shooting."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53909766

So that, and the 22-second video is all we can really go on at this point.

We also don’t know if Blake knew if he had an arrest warrant. Which all is aside from the fact that arrest warrant or not criminal history or not, cops are not the administers of capital punishment and need to stop killing black people for “resisting arrest”. Because last I saw “resisting arrest” was not a punishable by death with no due process offense.

No, resisting arrest isn't punishable by death. But you sure run the risk of being shot if you walk away from police and reach into your car like that. Would you do that? If the police were questioning you, would you walk away from them, open your car door, and reach in?

I’m not him what I would Do is irrelevant. The main point is that cops could have done many things to avoid shooting him 7 times in the back And likely prevented a riot.

I see. So you wanted me to put myself in his sister's shoes and look at it from her point of view, but you refuse to put yourself in his shoes and consider how you'd handle the situation if you were in it.

Riots/Looting/Violence and general post-George Floyd madness

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