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Riots/Looting/Violence and general post-George Floyd madness

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  • Options
    bbiggsbbiggs Posts: 6,932
    dignin said:
    bbiggs said:
    bbiggs said:
    bbiggs said:
    bbiggs said:
    bbiggs said:
    PJNB said:
    PJPOWER said:
    PJNB said:
    PJPOWER said:
    Shit is out of control. One of the rioters was shot in the head in Kenosha last night:


    And there was a madman with an assault-style weapon shooting people. Not sure if it’s the same guy that shot the guy in the first video. But he shoots  two people at short range in this video:

    Graphic:
    https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1298507433975799809?s=21

    Just complete and utter fucking chaos. 
    There ya have it...That is going to be the result of looting and burning people’s businesses.  The business owners can not afford to just let their businesses get burned to the ground.  They are going to start fighting back...and I don’t blame them.  What did they think would happen?

    You think its ok to execute someone for looting?
    I think it’s okay for people to protect their property.  
    So thats a yes? 
    It's not a great question, you are pretending it's all happening in a vacuum.

    It's Newton's 3rd law.

    1) Cops shoot black man in back
    2) Protests
    3) People using protest to destroy and loot 
    4) Leadership fails to adequately handle the situation 
    5) People take action into their own hands

    Stupid gun laws + stupid police norms + stupid looters = Kenosha, WI

    When we leave regular citizens to make the determination on appropriate level of force....we are in big trouble

    Trick question.  When this de-funding of the police movement continues to progress, do we think more or less people will start taking matters into their own hands?  I think we're seeing the answer very clearly.

    Less, because the idea is there will be less situations for those to "take matters" into whomever's hands.  It's about trying to rebuild the community infrastructure, because it has suffered from decades of neglect from white people vacating those neighborhoods because they couldn't handle the thought of equality with black people.  Rather than stay and continue to sustain or further build the economy, they jumped ship and it was left behind to people who couldn't financially support what had been built to that point.  Defunding the police, or better said to try to build communities through pushing more budget toward public services is not a short-term fix.  It will take several years to build.  What short-term fix in the past 50 years has made it more safe for a black person when apprehended by police?  It's this constant "retraining" or "reform" that is nothing more than a CYA that constantly moves the system laterally.

    You're a trusting man, apparently.  I don't have the faith that you do.  If what you say is correct and this de-funding movement results in some better world, I'm not sure what will be left standing by the time that happens.  Might as well scrape these cities and start from the ground up at this rate.

    The reason why this shit is happening is because there are black men still being gunned down or strangled to death.  The opportunists can't find an opportunity to burn cities to the ground if there isn't a reason to protest.  Jesus, you think what is going on right now is going to fix the problem?  What is your solution to stop all of this?

    Don't have a solution and never claimed to have one.  Many here think they have all the answers.  I sure as fuck don't.  But taking cops off the street to let cities burn to the ground doesn't do a bit of good.

    bbiggs said:
    bbiggs said:
    bbiggs said:
    PJNB said:
    PJPOWER said:
    PJNB said:
    PJPOWER said:
    Shit is out of control. One of the rioters was shot in the head in Kenosha last night:


    And there was a madman with an assault-style weapon shooting people. Not sure if it’s the same guy that shot the guy in the first video. But he shoots  two people at short range in this video:

    Graphic:
    https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1298507433975799809?s=21

    Just complete and utter fucking chaos. 
    There ya have it...That is going to be the result of looting and burning people’s businesses.  The business owners can not afford to just let their businesses get burned to the ground.  They are going to start fighting back...and I don’t blame them.  What did they think would happen?

    You think its ok to execute someone for looting?
    I think it’s okay for people to protect their property.  
    So thats a yes? 
    It's not a great question, you are pretending it's all happening in a vacuum.

    It's Newton's 3rd law.

    1) Cops shoot black man in back
    2) Protests
    3) People using protest to destroy and loot 
    4) Leadership fails to adequately handle the situation 
    5) People take action into their own hands

    Stupid gun laws + stupid police norms + stupid looters = Kenosha, WI

    When we leave regular citizens to make the determination on appropriate level of force....we are in big trouble

    Trick question.  When this de-funding of the police movement continues to progress, do we think more or less people will start taking matters into their own hands?  I think we're seeing the answer very clearly.

    Less, because the idea is there will be less situations for those to "take matters" into whomever's hands.  It's about trying to rebuild the community infrastructure, because it has suffered from decades of neglect from white people vacating those neighborhoods because they couldn't handle the thought of equality with black people.  Rather than stay and continue to sustain or further build the economy, they jumped ship and it was left behind to people who couldn't financially support what had been built to that point.  Defunding the police, or better said to try to build communities through pushing more budget toward public services is not a short-term fix.  It will take several years to build.  What short-term fix in the past 50 years has made it more safe for a black person when apprehended by police?  It's this constant "retraining" or "reform" that is nothing more than a CYA that constantly moves the system laterally.

    You're a trusting man, apparently.  I don't have the faith that you do.  If what you say is correct and this de-funding movement results in some better world, I'm not sure what will be left standing by the time that happens.  Might as well scrape these cities and start from the ground up at this rate.

    The reason why this shit is happening is because there are black men still being gunned down or strangled to death.  The opportunists can't find an opportunity to burn cities to the ground if there isn't a reason to protest.  Jesus, you think what is going on right now is going to fix the problem?  What is your solution to stop all of this?

    Don't have a solution and never claimed to have one.  Many here think they have all the answers.  I sure as fuck don't.  But taking cops off the street to let cities burn to the ground doesn't do a bit of good.

    I never said you had one, but if you're going to poke holes in other's logic, at least have something to contribute.  Defunding doesn't have to take cops off of the street.  Police budgets aren't all just about head count.  Plus who's to say cities will burn if there are less cops?  Cities are burning because of bad cops.  Not every cop is bad, but there is a systemic problem that needs to be issued and just saying less cops = cities to rubble isn't looking further than their hand in front of their face.

    Last time I'm going to respond because you and I are running in circles.  First, I have had plenty to contribute.  To summarize, don't take cops off the street and expect people to behave.  We're getting a crystal clear picture how that works out and it isn't pretty.  Also, don't condone looting and vandalism as acceptable behavior to combat racial inequality.  You disagree with my stance and that's fine.  I disagree with yours in that removing cops will better the situation.  So let's move on.  Second, who's to say cities will burn with less cops?  Ummm, have you turned on the news lately?  They are literally burning.  This is not a figure of speech.  You can champion your position and I can champion mine.  Neither of us want people being shot or beaten, and additionally, I don't want looting, burning or destruction.

    If cities are “literally burning” now, it is with the current complement of police, not in a defunded situation. Your speculation that things would be worse if police departments were altered in some way is just speculation, with no evidence. It’s also entirely possible that the situation in these cities would improve, if fewer police were harassing and assaulting their citizens. 
    Wrong.  Not speculation.  I know for a fact that police presence has been lessened in Chicago and there has been mayhem as a result.  Fact.  If you want to speculate that fewer police will lead to a eutopian city, have at it.

    Chicago has not reduced its police force, which is significantly more per capital than other large cities such as NYC and LA. They have not cut their police budget either. In the past, when the city has cut the police budget and consequently the number of police, crime rates fell during the same period. 

    So yes, you’re speculating. 
    Listen.  You can read and research all you want on the topic.  I live here and have friends in Chicago PD.  I'm getting first-hand accounts from "boots on the ground;" not what Google tells me.  The police presence has been intentionally scaled back during this surge of recent bullshit (i.e. looting, vandalizing, rioting).  So please don't tell me I'm speculating considering our distances to the source.
    Who gave the word to scale back?
    I'll ask my friend and get back to you.  Google won't be able to answer this one.

  • Options
    bbiggsbbiggs Posts: 6,932
    dignin said:
    dignin said:
    bbiggs said:
    bbiggs said:
    bbiggs said:
    bbiggs said:
    bbiggs said:
    PJNB said:
    PJPOWER said:
    PJNB said:
    PJPOWER said:
    Shit is out of control. One of the rioters was shot in the head in Kenosha last night:


    And there was a madman with an assault-style weapon shooting people. Not sure if it’s the same guy that shot the guy in the first video. But he shoots  two people at short range in this video:

    Graphic:
    https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1298507433975799809?s=21

    Just complete and utter fucking chaos. 
    There ya have it...That is going to be the result of looting and burning people’s businesses.  The business owners can not afford to just let their businesses get burned to the ground.  They are going to start fighting back...and I don’t blame them.  What did they think would happen?

    You think its ok to execute someone for looting?
    I think it’s okay for people to protect their property.  
    So thats a yes? 
    It's not a great question, you are pretending it's all happening in a vacuum.

    It's Newton's 3rd law.

    1) Cops shoot black man in back
    2) Protests
    3) People using protest to destroy and loot 
    4) Leadership fails to adequately handle the situation 
    5) People take action into their own hands

    Stupid gun laws + stupid police norms + stupid looters = Kenosha, WI

    When we leave regular citizens to make the determination on appropriate level of force....we are in big trouble

    Trick question.  When this de-funding of the police movement continues to progress, do we think more or less people will start taking matters into their own hands?  I think we're seeing the answer very clearly.

    Less, because the idea is there will be less situations for those to "take matters" into whomever's hands.  It's about trying to rebuild the community infrastructure, because it has suffered from decades of neglect from white people vacating those neighborhoods because they couldn't handle the thought of equality with black people.  Rather than stay and continue to sustain or further build the economy, they jumped ship and it was left behind to people who couldn't financially support what had been built to that point.  Defunding the police, or better said to try to build communities through pushing more budget toward public services is not a short-term fix.  It will take several years to build.  What short-term fix in the past 50 years has made it more safe for a black person when apprehended by police?  It's this constant "retraining" or "reform" that is nothing more than a CYA that constantly moves the system laterally.

    You're a trusting man, apparently.  I don't have the faith that you do.  If what you say is correct and this de-funding movement results in some better world, I'm not sure what will be left standing by the time that happens.  Might as well scrape these cities and start from the ground up at this rate.

    The reason why this shit is happening is because there are black men still being gunned down or strangled to death.  The opportunists can't find an opportunity to burn cities to the ground if there isn't a reason to protest.  Jesus, you think what is going on right now is going to fix the problem?  What is your solution to stop all of this?

    Don't have a solution and never claimed to have one.  Many here think they have all the answers.  I sure as fuck don't.  But taking cops off the street to let cities burn to the ground doesn't do a bit of good.

    bbiggs said:
    bbiggs said:
    bbiggs said:
    PJNB said:
    PJPOWER said:
    PJNB said:
    PJPOWER said:
    Shit is out of control. One of the rioters was shot in the head in Kenosha last night:


    And there was a madman with an assault-style weapon shooting people. Not sure if it’s the same guy that shot the guy in the first video. But he shoots  two people at short range in this video:

    Graphic:
    https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1298507433975799809?s=21

    Just complete and utter fucking chaos. 
    There ya have it...That is going to be the result of looting and burning people’s businesses.  The business owners can not afford to just let their businesses get burned to the ground.  They are going to start fighting back...and I don’t blame them.  What did they think would happen?

    You think its ok to execute someone for looting?
    I think it’s okay for people to protect their property.  
    So thats a yes? 
    It's not a great question, you are pretending it's all happening in a vacuum.

    It's Newton's 3rd law.

    1) Cops shoot black man in back
    2) Protests
    3) People using protest to destroy and loot 
    4) Leadership fails to adequately handle the situation 
    5) People take action into their own hands

    Stupid gun laws + stupid police norms + stupid looters = Kenosha, WI

    When we leave regular citizens to make the determination on appropriate level of force....we are in big trouble

    Trick question.  When this de-funding of the police movement continues to progress, do we think more or less people will start taking matters into their own hands?  I think we're seeing the answer very clearly.

    Less, because the idea is there will be less situations for those to "take matters" into whomever's hands.  It's about trying to rebuild the community infrastructure, because it has suffered from decades of neglect from white people vacating those neighborhoods because they couldn't handle the thought of equality with black people.  Rather than stay and continue to sustain or further build the economy, they jumped ship and it was left behind to people who couldn't financially support what had been built to that point.  Defunding the police, or better said to try to build communities through pushing more budget toward public services is not a short-term fix.  It will take several years to build.  What short-term fix in the past 50 years has made it more safe for a black person when apprehended by police?  It's this constant "retraining" or "reform" that is nothing more than a CYA that constantly moves the system laterally.

    You're a trusting man, apparently.  I don't have the faith that you do.  If what you say is correct and this de-funding movement results in some better world, I'm not sure what will be left standing by the time that happens.  Might as well scrape these cities and start from the ground up at this rate.

    The reason why this shit is happening is because there are black men still being gunned down or strangled to death.  The opportunists can't find an opportunity to burn cities to the ground if there isn't a reason to protest.  Jesus, you think what is going on right now is going to fix the problem?  What is your solution to stop all of this?

    Don't have a solution and never claimed to have one.  Many here think they have all the answers.  I sure as fuck don't.  But taking cops off the street to let cities burn to the ground doesn't do a bit of good.

    I never said you had one, but if you're going to poke holes in other's logic, at least have something to contribute.  Defunding doesn't have to take cops off of the street.  Police budgets aren't all just about head count.  Plus who's to say cities will burn if there are less cops?  Cities are burning because of bad cops.  Not every cop is bad, but there is a systemic problem that needs to be issued and just saying less cops = cities to rubble isn't looking further than their hand in front of their face.

    Last time I'm going to respond because you and I are running in circles.  First, I have had plenty to contribute.  To summarize, don't take cops off the street and expect people to behave.  We're getting a crystal clear picture how that works out and it isn't pretty.  Also, don't condone looting and vandalism as acceptable behavior to combat racial inequality.  You disagree with my stance and that's fine.  I disagree with yours in that removing cops will better the situation.  So let's move on.  Second, who's to say cities will burn with less cops?  Ummm, have you turned on the news lately?  They are literally burning.  This is not a figure of speech.  You can champion your position and I can champion mine.  Neither of us want people being shot or beaten, and additionally, I don't want looting, burning or destruction.

    If cities are “literally burning” now, it is with the current complement of police, not in a defunded situation. Your speculation that things would be worse if police departments were altered in some way is just speculation, with no evidence. It’s also entirely possible that the situation in these cities would improve, if fewer police were harassing and assaulting their citizens. 
    Wrong.  Not speculation.  I know for a fact that police presence has been lessened in Chicago and there has been mayhem as a result.  Fact.  If you want to speculate that fewer police will lead to a eutopian city, have at it.

    Chicago has not reduced its police force, which is significantly more per capital than other large cities such as NYC and LA. They have not cut their police budget either. In the past, when the city has cut the police budget and consequently the number of police, crime rates fell during the same period. 

    So yes, you’re speculating. 
    Listen.  You can read and research all you want on the topic.  I live here and have friends in Chicago PD.  I'm getting first-hand accounts from "boots on the ground;" not what Google tells me.  The police presence has been intentionally scaled back during this surge of recent bullshit (i.e. looting, vandalizing, rioting).  So please don't tell me I'm speculating considering our distances to the source.
    Who gave the word to scale back?
    Or to do a work slow down, encourage a sick out, etc.?
    Exactly. If they haven't fired anyone what are they up to now? I have so many questions.
    If you want to compile a list, I'll do my best to oblige.

  • Options
    bbiggsbbiggs Posts: 6,932
    mcgruff10 said:
    bbiggs said:
    bbiggs said:
    bbiggs said:
    bbiggs said:
    PJNB said:
    PJPOWER said:
    PJNB said:
    PJPOWER said:
    Shit is out of control. One of the rioters was shot in the head in Kenosha last night:


    And there was a madman with an assault-style weapon shooting people. Not sure if it’s the same guy that shot the guy in the first video. But he shoots  two people at short range in this video:

    Graphic:
    https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1298507433975799809?s=21

    Just complete and utter fucking chaos. 
    There ya have it...That is going to be the result of looting and burning people’s businesses.  The business owners can not afford to just let their businesses get burned to the ground.  They are going to start fighting back...and I don’t blame them.  What did they think would happen?

    You think its ok to execute someone for looting?
    I think it’s okay for people to protect their property.  
    So thats a yes? 
    It's not a great question, you are pretending it's all happening in a vacuum.

    It's Newton's 3rd law.

    1) Cops shoot black man in back
    2) Protests
    3) People using protest to destroy and loot 
    4) Leadership fails to adequately handle the situation 
    5) People take action into their own hands

    Stupid gun laws + stupid police norms + stupid looters = Kenosha, WI

    When we leave regular citizens to make the determination on appropriate level of force....we are in big trouble

    Trick question.  When this de-funding of the police movement continues to progress, do we think more or less people will start taking matters into their own hands?  I think we're seeing the answer very clearly.

    Less, because the idea is there will be less situations for those to "take matters" into whomever's hands.  It's about trying to rebuild the community infrastructure, because it has suffered from decades of neglect from white people vacating those neighborhoods because they couldn't handle the thought of equality with black people.  Rather than stay and continue to sustain or further build the economy, they jumped ship and it was left behind to people who couldn't financially support what had been built to that point.  Defunding the police, or better said to try to build communities through pushing more budget toward public services is not a short-term fix.  It will take several years to build.  What short-term fix in the past 50 years has made it more safe for a black person when apprehended by police?  It's this constant "retraining" or "reform" that is nothing more than a CYA that constantly moves the system laterally.

    You're a trusting man, apparently.  I don't have the faith that you do.  If what you say is correct and this de-funding movement results in some better world, I'm not sure what will be left standing by the time that happens.  Might as well scrape these cities and start from the ground up at this rate.

    The reason why this shit is happening is because there are black men still being gunned down or strangled to death.  The opportunists can't find an opportunity to burn cities to the ground if there isn't a reason to protest.  Jesus, you think what is going on right now is going to fix the problem?  What is your solution to stop all of this?

    Don't have a solution and never claimed to have one.  Many here think they have all the answers.  I sure as fuck don't.  But taking cops off the street to let cities burn to the ground doesn't do a bit of good.

    bbiggs said:
    bbiggs said:
    bbiggs said:
    PJNB said:
    PJPOWER said:
    PJNB said:
    PJPOWER said:
    Shit is out of control. One of the rioters was shot in the head in Kenosha last night:


    And there was a madman with an assault-style weapon shooting people. Not sure if it’s the same guy that shot the guy in the first video. But he shoots  two people at short range in this video:

    Graphic:
    https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1298507433975799809?s=21

    Just complete and utter fucking chaos. 
    There ya have it...That is going to be the result of looting and burning people’s businesses.  The business owners can not afford to just let their businesses get burned to the ground.  They are going to start fighting back...and I don’t blame them.  What did they think would happen?

    You think its ok to execute someone for looting?
    I think it’s okay for people to protect their property.  
    So thats a yes? 
    It's not a great question, you are pretending it's all happening in a vacuum.

    It's Newton's 3rd law.

    1) Cops shoot black man in back
    2) Protests
    3) People using protest to destroy and loot 
    4) Leadership fails to adequately handle the situation 
    5) People take action into their own hands

    Stupid gun laws + stupid police norms + stupid looters = Kenosha, WI

    When we leave regular citizens to make the determination on appropriate level of force....we are in big trouble

    Trick question.  When this de-funding of the police movement continues to progress, do we think more or less people will start taking matters into their own hands?  I think we're seeing the answer very clearly.

    Less, because the idea is there will be less situations for those to "take matters" into whomever's hands.  It's about trying to rebuild the community infrastructure, because it has suffered from decades of neglect from white people vacating those neighborhoods because they couldn't handle the thought of equality with black people.  Rather than stay and continue to sustain or further build the economy, they jumped ship and it was left behind to people who couldn't financially support what had been built to that point.  Defunding the police, or better said to try to build communities through pushing more budget toward public services is not a short-term fix.  It will take several years to build.  What short-term fix in the past 50 years has made it more safe for a black person when apprehended by police?  It's this constant "retraining" or "reform" that is nothing more than a CYA that constantly moves the system laterally.

    You're a trusting man, apparently.  I don't have the faith that you do.  If what you say is correct and this de-funding movement results in some better world, I'm not sure what will be left standing by the time that happens.  Might as well scrape these cities and start from the ground up at this rate.

    The reason why this shit is happening is because there are black men still being gunned down or strangled to death.  The opportunists can't find an opportunity to burn cities to the ground if there isn't a reason to protest.  Jesus, you think what is going on right now is going to fix the problem?  What is your solution to stop all of this?

    Don't have a solution and never claimed to have one.  Many here think they have all the answers.  I sure as fuck don't.  But taking cops off the street to let cities burn to the ground doesn't do a bit of good.

    I never said you had one, but if you're going to poke holes in other's logic, at least have something to contribute.  Defunding doesn't have to take cops off of the street.  Police budgets aren't all just about head count.  Plus who's to say cities will burn if there are less cops?  Cities are burning because of bad cops.  Not every cop is bad, but there is a systemic problem that needs to be issued and just saying less cops = cities to rubble isn't looking further than their hand in front of their face.

    Last time I'm going to respond because you and I are running in circles.  First, I have had plenty to contribute.  To summarize, don't take cops off the street and expect people to behave.  We're getting a crystal clear picture how that works out and it isn't pretty.  Also, don't condone looting and vandalism as acceptable behavior to combat racial inequality.  You disagree with my stance and that's fine.  I disagree with yours in that removing cops will better the situation.  So let's move on.  Second, who's to say cities will burn with less cops?  Ummm, have you turned on the news lately?  They are literally burning.  This is not a figure of speech.  You can champion your position and I can champion mine.  Neither of us want people being shot or beaten, and additionally, I don't want looting, burning or destruction.

    If cities are “literally burning” now, it is with the current complement of police, not in a defunded situation. Your speculation that things would be worse if police departments were altered in some way is just speculation, with no evidence. It’s also entirely possible that the situation in these cities would improve, if fewer police were harassing and assaulting their citizens. 
    Wrong.  Not speculation.  I know for a fact that police presence has been lessened in Chicago and there has been mayhem as a result.  Fact.  If you want to speculate that fewer police will lead to a eutopian city, have at it.

    Chicago has not reduced its police force, which is significantly more per capital than other large cities such as NYC and LA. They have not cut their police budget either. In the past, when the city has cut the police budget and consequently the number of police, crime rates fell during the same period. 

    So yes, you’re speculating. 
    Which cities have had lower crime rates due to cutting the police budget? 


    I'd like to know this too.  So many questions today.  It's the day of questions.
  • Options
    bbiggsbbiggs Posts: 6,932
    mcgruff10 said:
    wonder what those boots taste like.
    Knowing him, either bourbon or a local ipa.  However that is just pure speculation.
    Actually, this is likely the first speculative comment today that is true.
  • Options
    mace1229mace1229 Posts: 9,041
    edited August 2020
    mcgruff10 said:
    bbiggs said:
    bbiggs said:
    bbiggs said:
    bbiggs said:
    PJNB said:
    PJPOWER said:
    PJNB said:
    PJPOWER said:
    Shit is out of control. One of the rioters was shot in the head in Kenosha last night:


    And there was a madman with an assault-style weapon shooting people. Not sure if it’s the same guy that shot the guy in the first video. But he shoots  two people at short range in this video:

    Graphic:
    https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1298507433975799809?s=21

    Just complete and utter fucking chaos. 
    There ya have it...That is going to be the result of looting and burning people’s businesses.  The business owners can not afford to just let their businesses get burned to the ground.  They are going to start fighting back...and I don’t blame them.  What did they think would happen?

    You think its ok to execute someone for looting?
    I think it’s okay for people to protect their property.  
    So thats a yes? 
    It's not a great question, you are pretending it's all happening in a vacuum.

    It's Newton's 3rd law.

    1) Cops shoot black man in back
    2) Protests
    3) People using protest to destroy and loot 
    4) Leadership fails to adequately handle the situation 
    5) People take action into their own hands

    Stupid gun laws + stupid police norms + stupid looters = Kenosha, WI

    When we leave regular citizens to make the determination on appropriate level of force....we are in big trouble

    Trick question.  When this de-funding of the police movement continues to progress, do we think more or less people will start taking matters into their own hands?  I think we're seeing the answer very clearly.

    Less, because the idea is there will be less situations for those to "take matters" into whomever's hands.  It's about trying to rebuild the community infrastructure, because it has suffered from decades of neglect from white people vacating those neighborhoods because they couldn't handle the thought of equality with black people.  Rather than stay and continue to sustain or further build the economy, they jumped ship and it was left behind to people who couldn't financially support what had been built to that point.  Defunding the police, or better said to try to build communities through pushing more budget toward public services is not a short-term fix.  It will take several years to build.  What short-term fix in the past 50 years has made it more safe for a black person when apprehended by police?  It's this constant "retraining" or "reform" that is nothing more than a CYA that constantly moves the system laterally.

    You're a trusting man, apparently.  I don't have the faith that you do.  If what you say is correct and this de-funding movement results in some better world, I'm not sure what will be left standing by the time that happens.  Might as well scrape these cities and start from the ground up at this rate.

    The reason why this shit is happening is because there are black men still being gunned down or strangled to death.  The opportunists can't find an opportunity to burn cities to the ground if there isn't a reason to protest.  Jesus, you think what is going on right now is going to fix the problem?  What is your solution to stop all of this?

    Don't have a solution and never claimed to have one.  Many here think they have all the answers.  I sure as fuck don't.  But taking cops off the street to let cities burn to the ground doesn't do a bit of good.

    bbiggs said:
    bbiggs said:
    bbiggs said:
    PJNB said:
    PJPOWER said:
    PJNB said:
    PJPOWER said:
    Shit is out of control. One of the rioters was shot in the head in Kenosha last night:


    And there was a madman with an assault-style weapon shooting people. Not sure if it’s the same guy that shot the guy in the first video. But he shoots  two people at short range in this video:

    Graphic:
    https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1298507433975799809?s=21

    Just complete and utter fucking chaos. 
    There ya have it...That is going to be the result of looting and burning people’s businesses.  The business owners can not afford to just let their businesses get burned to the ground.  They are going to start fighting back...and I don’t blame them.  What did they think would happen?

    You think its ok to execute someone for looting?
    I think it’s okay for people to protect their property.  
    So thats a yes? 
    It's not a great question, you are pretending it's all happening in a vacuum.

    It's Newton's 3rd law.

    1) Cops shoot black man in back
    2) Protests
    3) People using protest to destroy and loot 
    4) Leadership fails to adequately handle the situation 
    5) People take action into their own hands

    Stupid gun laws + stupid police norms + stupid looters = Kenosha, WI

    When we leave regular citizens to make the determination on appropriate level of force....we are in big trouble

    Trick question.  When this de-funding of the police movement continues to progress, do we think more or less people will start taking matters into their own hands?  I think we're seeing the answer very clearly.

    Less, because the idea is there will be less situations for those to "take matters" into whomever's hands.  It's about trying to rebuild the community infrastructure, because it has suffered from decades of neglect from white people vacating those neighborhoods because they couldn't handle the thought of equality with black people.  Rather than stay and continue to sustain or further build the economy, they jumped ship and it was left behind to people who couldn't financially support what had been built to that point.  Defunding the police, or better said to try to build communities through pushing more budget toward public services is not a short-term fix.  It will take several years to build.  What short-term fix in the past 50 years has made it more safe for a black person when apprehended by police?  It's this constant "retraining" or "reform" that is nothing more than a CYA that constantly moves the system laterally.

    You're a trusting man, apparently.  I don't have the faith that you do.  If what you say is correct and this de-funding movement results in some better world, I'm not sure what will be left standing by the time that happens.  Might as well scrape these cities and start from the ground up at this rate.

    The reason why this shit is happening is because there are black men still being gunned down or strangled to death.  The opportunists can't find an opportunity to burn cities to the ground if there isn't a reason to protest.  Jesus, you think what is going on right now is going to fix the problem?  What is your solution to stop all of this?

    Don't have a solution and never claimed to have one.  Many here think they have all the answers.  I sure as fuck don't.  But taking cops off the street to let cities burn to the ground doesn't do a bit of good.

    I never said you had one, but if you're going to poke holes in other's logic, at least have something to contribute.  Defunding doesn't have to take cops off of the street.  Police budgets aren't all just about head count.  Plus who's to say cities will burn if there are less cops?  Cities are burning because of bad cops.  Not every cop is bad, but there is a systemic problem that needs to be issued and just saying less cops = cities to rubble isn't looking further than their hand in front of their face.

    Last time I'm going to respond because you and I are running in circles.  First, I have had plenty to contribute.  To summarize, don't take cops off the street and expect people to behave.  We're getting a crystal clear picture how that works out and it isn't pretty.  Also, don't condone looting and vandalism as acceptable behavior to combat racial inequality.  You disagree with my stance and that's fine.  I disagree with yours in that removing cops will better the situation.  So let's move on.  Second, who's to say cities will burn with less cops?  Ummm, have you turned on the news lately?  They are literally burning.  This is not a figure of speech.  You can champion your position and I can champion mine.  Neither of us want people being shot or beaten, and additionally, I don't want looting, burning or destruction.

    If cities are “literally burning” now, it is with the current complement of police, not in a defunded situation. Your speculation that things would be worse if police departments were altered in some way is just speculation, with no evidence. It’s also entirely possible that the situation in these cities would improve, if fewer police were harassing and assaulting their citizens. 
    Wrong.  Not speculation.  I know for a fact that police presence has been lessened in Chicago and there has been mayhem as a result.  Fact.  If you want to speculate that fewer police will lead to a eutopian city, have at it.

    Chicago has not reduced its police force, which is significantly more per capital than other large cities such as NYC and LA. They have not cut their police budget either. In the past, when the city has cut the police budget and consequently the number of police, crime rates fell during the same period. 

    So yes, you’re speculating. 
    Which cities have had lower crime rates due to cutting the police budget? 

    Not sure I would trust the reporting on that. Less police probably = less reporting on crime too.
    Like how my last school used to kick seniors out who were failing so we could have a 95% graduation rate. I'm sure all cities (and schools) find ways to fudge numbers.
  • Options
    bbiggsbbiggs Posts: 6,932
    wonder what those boots taste like.
    Gasoline?  Just speculation though.

  • Options
    Glorified KCGlorified KC KCMO Native Posts: 2,529
    bbiggs said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    wonder what those boots taste like.
    Knowing him, either bourbon or a local ipa.  However that is just pure speculation.
    Actually, this is likely the first speculative comment today that is true.
    I would like to know what IPA, considering bbiggs has converted me over to being a Maplewood fan.

    I wish I was a sacrifice, but somehow still lived on.
  • Options
    mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 27,985
    bbiggs said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    wonder what those boots taste like.
    Knowing him, either bourbon or a local ipa.  However that is just pure speculation.
    Actually, this is likely the first speculative comment today that is true.
    I m about to crack open a bottle of Pinot Grigio.  The real question is, how many ice cubes will be going in the glass?  The person who guesses closest wins a Pitt ‘13 se poster.  ;)
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • Options
    mace1229mace1229 Posts: 9,041
    mcgruff10 said:
    bbiggs said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    wonder what those boots taste like.
    Knowing him, either bourbon or a local ipa.  However that is just pure speculation.
    Actually, this is likely the first speculative comment today that is true.
    I m about to crack open a bottle of Pinot Grigio.  The real question is, how many ice cubes will be going in the glass?  The person who guesses closest wins a Pitt ‘13 se poster.  ;)
    6.02 x 10^23 ice cubes
    Am I right?
  • Options
    mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 27,985
    mace1229 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    bbiggs said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    wonder what those boots taste like.
    Knowing him, either bourbon or a local ipa.  However that is just pure speculation.
    Actually, this is likely the first speculative comment today that is true.
    I m about to crack open a bottle of Pinot Grigio.  The real question is, how many ice cubes will be going in the glass?  The person who guesses closest wins a Pitt ‘13 se poster.  ;)
    6.02 x 10^23 ice cubes
    Am I right?
    Dude I teach social studies, I have no clue what that means. Lol

    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • Options
    bbiggsbbiggs Posts: 6,932
    bbiggs said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    wonder what those boots taste like.
    Knowing him, either bourbon or a local ipa.  However that is just pure speculation.
    Actually, this is likely the first speculative comment today that is true.
    I would like to know what IPA, considering bbiggs has converted me over to being a Maplewood fan.

    See...we do agree on things after all.  ;)

  • Options
    mace1229mace1229 Posts: 9,041

    mcgruff10 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    bbiggs said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    wonder what those boots taste like.
    Knowing him, either bourbon or a local ipa.  However that is just pure speculation.
    Actually, this is likely the first speculative comment today that is true.
    I m about to crack open a bottle of Pinot Grigio.  The real question is, how many ice cubes will be going in the glass?  The person who guesses closest wins a Pitt ‘13 se poster.  ;)
    6.02 x 10^23 ice cubes
    Am I right?
    Dude I teach social studies, I have no clue what that means. Lol

    Avogadro's number, or 1 mole. I teach science/chemistry, thats usually the one thing people say they remember from chemistry class is Acogadro's number.
  • Options
    mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 27,985
    mace1229 said:

    mcgruff10 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    bbiggs said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    wonder what those boots taste like.
    Knowing him, either bourbon or a local ipa.  However that is just pure speculation.
    Actually, this is likely the first speculative comment today that is true.
    I m about to crack open a bottle of Pinot Grigio.  The real question is, how many ice cubes will be going in the glass?  The person who guesses closest wins a Pitt ‘13 se poster.  ;)
    6.02 x 10^23 ice cubes
    Am I right?
    Dude I teach social studies, I have no clue what that means. Lol

    Avogadro's number, or 1 mole. I teach science/chemistry, thats usually the one thing people say they remember from chemistry class is Acogadro's number.
    Dude I remember moles!  I think that is all I remember from ap chemistry lol.  

    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • Options
    mace1229mace1229 Posts: 9,041
    mcgruff10 said:
    mace1229 said:

    mcgruff10 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    bbiggs said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    wonder what those boots taste like.
    Knowing him, either bourbon or a local ipa.  However that is just pure speculation.
    Actually, this is likely the first speculative comment today that is true.
    I m about to crack open a bottle of Pinot Grigio.  The real question is, how many ice cubes will be going in the glass?  The person who guesses closest wins a Pitt ‘13 se poster.  ;)
    6.02 x 10^23 ice cubes
    Am I right?
    Dude I teach social studies, I have no clue what that means. Lol

    Avogadro's number, or 1 mole. I teach science/chemistry, thats usually the one thing people say they remember from chemistry class is Acogadro's number.
    Dude I remember moles!  I think that is all I remember from ap chemistry lol.  
    mcgruff10 said:
    mace1229 said:

    mcgruff10 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    bbiggs said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    wonder what those boots taste like.
    Knowing him, either bourbon or a local ipa.  However that is just pure speculation.
    Actually, this is likely the first speculative comment today that is true.
    I m about to crack open a bottle of Pinot Grigio.  The real question is, how many ice cubes will be going in the glass?  The person who guesses closest wins a Pitt ‘13 se poster.  ;)
    6.02 x 10^23 ice cubes
    Am I right?
    Dude I teach social studies, I have no clue what that means. Lol

    Avogadro's number, or 1 mole. I teach science/chemistry, thats usually the one thing people say they remember from chemistry class is Acogadro's number.
    Dude I remember moles!  I think that is all I remember from ap chemistry lol.  



    See, the one thing people take away from high school chemistry as an adult, the mole.
  • Options
    mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 27,985
    mace1229 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mace1229 said:

    mcgruff10 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    bbiggs said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    wonder what those boots taste like.
    Knowing him, either bourbon or a local ipa.  However that is just pure speculation.
    Actually, this is likely the first speculative comment today that is true.
    I m about to crack open a bottle of Pinot Grigio.  The real question is, how many ice cubes will be going in the glass?  The person who guesses closest wins a Pitt ‘13 se poster.  ;)
    6.02 x 10^23 ice cubes
    Am I right?
    Dude I teach social studies, I have no clue what that means. Lol

    Avogadro's number, or 1 mole. I teach science/chemistry, thats usually the one thing people say they remember from chemistry class is Acogadro's number.
    Dude I remember moles!  I think that is all I remember from ap chemistry lol.  
    mcgruff10 said:
    mace1229 said:

    mcgruff10 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    bbiggs said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    wonder what those boots taste like.
    Knowing him, either bourbon or a local ipa.  However that is just pure speculation.
    Actually, this is likely the first speculative comment today that is true.
    I m about to crack open a bottle of Pinot Grigio.  The real question is, how many ice cubes will be going in the glass?  The person who guesses closest wins a Pitt ‘13 se poster.  ;)
    6.02 x 10^23 ice cubes
    Am I right?
    Dude I teach social studies, I have no clue what that means. Lol

    Avogadro's number, or 1 mole. I teach science/chemistry, thats usually the one thing people say they remember from chemistry class is Acogadro's number.
    Dude I remember moles!  I think that is all I remember from ap chemistry lol.  



    See, the one thing people take away from high school chemistry as an adult, the mole.
    I also remember balancing atom equations (does that make sense)?

    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • Options
    mace1229mace1229 Posts: 9,041
    Shit is out of control. One of the rioters was shot in the head in Kenosha last night:


    And there was a madman with an assault-style weapon shooting people. Not sure if it’s the same guy that shot the guy in the first video. But he shoots  two people at short range in this video:

    Graphic:
    https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1298507433975799809?s=21

    Just complete and utter fucking chaos. 
    That same kid is in every video. So glad they caught him. After he shoots the first guy in the first video, he runs up and checks out his kill. its really disturbing. I'm guessing the second video is just seconds later where they try to stop him and he gets 2 more, then walks up to police. It looks like a war town.
  • Options
    dignindignin Posts: 9,304
    bbiggs said:
    dignin said:
    bbiggs said:
    bbiggs said:
    bbiggs said:
    bbiggs said:
    bbiggs said:
    PJNB said:
    PJPOWER said:
    PJNB said:
    PJPOWER said:
    Shit is out of control. One of the rioters was shot in the head in Kenosha last night:


    And there was a madman with an assault-style weapon shooting people. Not sure if it’s the same guy that shot the guy in the first video. But he shoots  two people at short range in this video:

    Graphic:
    https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1298507433975799809?s=21

    Just complete and utter fucking chaos. 
    There ya have it...That is going to be the result of looting and burning people’s businesses.  The business owners can not afford to just let their businesses get burned to the ground.  They are going to start fighting back...and I don’t blame them.  What did they think would happen?

    You think its ok to execute someone for looting?
    I think it’s okay for people to protect their property.  
    So thats a yes? 
    It's not a great question, you are pretending it's all happening in a vacuum.

    It's Newton's 3rd law.

    1) Cops shoot black man in back
    2) Protests
    3) People using protest to destroy and loot 
    4) Leadership fails to adequately handle the situation 
    5) People take action into their own hands

    Stupid gun laws + stupid police norms + stupid looters = Kenosha, WI

    When we leave regular citizens to make the determination on appropriate level of force....we are in big trouble

    Trick question.  When this de-funding of the police movement continues to progress, do we think more or less people will start taking matters into their own hands?  I think we're seeing the answer very clearly.

    Less, because the idea is there will be less situations for those to "take matters" into whomever's hands.  It's about trying to rebuild the community infrastructure, because it has suffered from decades of neglect from white people vacating those neighborhoods because they couldn't handle the thought of equality with black people.  Rather than stay and continue to sustain or further build the economy, they jumped ship and it was left behind to people who couldn't financially support what had been built to that point.  Defunding the police, or better said to try to build communities through pushing more budget toward public services is not a short-term fix.  It will take several years to build.  What short-term fix in the past 50 years has made it more safe for a black person when apprehended by police?  It's this constant "retraining" or "reform" that is nothing more than a CYA that constantly moves the system laterally.

    You're a trusting man, apparently.  I don't have the faith that you do.  If what you say is correct and this de-funding movement results in some better world, I'm not sure what will be left standing by the time that happens.  Might as well scrape these cities and start from the ground up at this rate.

    The reason why this shit is happening is because there are black men still being gunned down or strangled to death.  The opportunists can't find an opportunity to burn cities to the ground if there isn't a reason to protest.  Jesus, you think what is going on right now is going to fix the problem?  What is your solution to stop all of this?

    Don't have a solution and never claimed to have one.  Many here think they have all the answers.  I sure as fuck don't.  But taking cops off the street to let cities burn to the ground doesn't do a bit of good.

    bbiggs said:
    bbiggs said:
    bbiggs said:
    PJNB said:
    PJPOWER said:
    PJNB said:
    PJPOWER said:
    Shit is out of control. One of the rioters was shot in the head in Kenosha last night:


    And there was a madman with an assault-style weapon shooting people. Not sure if it’s the same guy that shot the guy in the first video. But he shoots  two people at short range in this video:

    Graphic:
    https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1298507433975799809?s=21

    Just complete and utter fucking chaos. 
    There ya have it...That is going to be the result of looting and burning people’s businesses.  The business owners can not afford to just let their businesses get burned to the ground.  They are going to start fighting back...and I don’t blame them.  What did they think would happen?

    You think its ok to execute someone for looting?
    I think it’s okay for people to protect their property.  
    So thats a yes? 
    It's not a great question, you are pretending it's all happening in a vacuum.

    It's Newton's 3rd law.

    1) Cops shoot black man in back
    2) Protests
    3) People using protest to destroy and loot 
    4) Leadership fails to adequately handle the situation 
    5) People take action into their own hands

    Stupid gun laws + stupid police norms + stupid looters = Kenosha, WI

    When we leave regular citizens to make the determination on appropriate level of force....we are in big trouble

    Trick question.  When this de-funding of the police movement continues to progress, do we think more or less people will start taking matters into their own hands?  I think we're seeing the answer very clearly.

    Less, because the idea is there will be less situations for those to "take matters" into whomever's hands.  It's about trying to rebuild the community infrastructure, because it has suffered from decades of neglect from white people vacating those neighborhoods because they couldn't handle the thought of equality with black people.  Rather than stay and continue to sustain or further build the economy, they jumped ship and it was left behind to people who couldn't financially support what had been built to that point.  Defunding the police, or better said to try to build communities through pushing more budget toward public services is not a short-term fix.  It will take several years to build.  What short-term fix in the past 50 years has made it more safe for a black person when apprehended by police?  It's this constant "retraining" or "reform" that is nothing more than a CYA that constantly moves the system laterally.

    You're a trusting man, apparently.  I don't have the faith that you do.  If what you say is correct and this de-funding movement results in some better world, I'm not sure what will be left standing by the time that happens.  Might as well scrape these cities and start from the ground up at this rate.

    The reason why this shit is happening is because there are black men still being gunned down or strangled to death.  The opportunists can't find an opportunity to burn cities to the ground if there isn't a reason to protest.  Jesus, you think what is going on right now is going to fix the problem?  What is your solution to stop all of this?

    Don't have a solution and never claimed to have one.  Many here think they have all the answers.  I sure as fuck don't.  But taking cops off the street to let cities burn to the ground doesn't do a bit of good.

    I never said you had one, but if you're going to poke holes in other's logic, at least have something to contribute.  Defunding doesn't have to take cops off of the street.  Police budgets aren't all just about head count.  Plus who's to say cities will burn if there are less cops?  Cities are burning because of bad cops.  Not every cop is bad, but there is a systemic problem that needs to be issued and just saying less cops = cities to rubble isn't looking further than their hand in front of their face.

    Last time I'm going to respond because you and I are running in circles.  First, I have had plenty to contribute.  To summarize, don't take cops off the street and expect people to behave.  We're getting a crystal clear picture how that works out and it isn't pretty.  Also, don't condone looting and vandalism as acceptable behavior to combat racial inequality.  You disagree with my stance and that's fine.  I disagree with yours in that removing cops will better the situation.  So let's move on.  Second, who's to say cities will burn with less cops?  Ummm, have you turned on the news lately?  They are literally burning.  This is not a figure of speech.  You can champion your position and I can champion mine.  Neither of us want people being shot or beaten, and additionally, I don't want looting, burning or destruction.

    If cities are “literally burning” now, it is with the current complement of police, not in a defunded situation. Your speculation that things would be worse if police departments were altered in some way is just speculation, with no evidence. It’s also entirely possible that the situation in these cities would improve, if fewer police were harassing and assaulting their citizens. 
    Wrong.  Not speculation.  I know for a fact that police presence has been lessened in Chicago and there has been mayhem as a result.  Fact.  If you want to speculate that fewer police will lead to a eutopian city, have at it.

    Chicago has not reduced its police force, which is significantly more per capital than other large cities such as NYC and LA. They have not cut their police budget either. In the past, when the city has cut the police budget and consequently the number of police, crime rates fell during the same period. 

    So yes, you’re speculating. 
    Listen.  You can read and research all you want on the topic.  I live here and have friends in Chicago PD.  I'm getting first-hand accounts from "boots on the ground;" not what Google tells me.  The police presence has been intentionally scaled back during this surge of recent bullshit (i.e. looting, vandalizing, rioting).  So please don't tell me I'm speculating considering our distances to the source.
    Who gave the word to scale back?
    I'll ask my friend and get back to you.  Google won't be able to answer this one.

    I appreciate that. 
  • Options
    mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 27,985
    The answer is two ice cubes.  Cheers everyone! For everyone who guessed two ice cubes please contact @Halifax2TheMax   For your 2013 Pitt se poster   
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • Options
    bbiggsbbiggs Posts: 6,932
    dignin said:
    bbiggs said:
    dignin said:
    bbiggs said:
    bbiggs said:
    bbiggs said:
    bbiggs said:
    bbiggs said:
    PJNB said:
    PJPOWER said:
    PJNB said:
    PJPOWER said:
    Shit is out of control. One of the rioters was shot in the head in Kenosha last night:


    And there was a madman with an assault-style weapon shooting people. Not sure if it’s the same guy that shot the guy in the first video. But he shoots  two people at short range in this video:

    Graphic:
    https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1298507433975799809?s=21

    Just complete and utter fucking chaos. 
    There ya have it...That is going to be the result of looting and burning people’s businesses.  The business owners can not afford to just let their businesses get burned to the ground.  They are going to start fighting back...and I don’t blame them.  What did they think would happen?

    You think its ok to execute someone for looting?
    I think it’s okay for people to protect their property.  
    So thats a yes? 
    It's not a great question, you are pretending it's all happening in a vacuum.

    It's Newton's 3rd law.

    1) Cops shoot black man in back
    2) Protests
    3) People using protest to destroy and loot 
    4) Leadership fails to adequately handle the situation 
    5) People take action into their own hands

    Stupid gun laws + stupid police norms + stupid looters = Kenosha, WI

    When we leave regular citizens to make the determination on appropriate level of force....we are in big trouble

    Trick question.  When this de-funding of the police movement continues to progress, do we think more or less people will start taking matters into their own hands?  I think we're seeing the answer very clearly.

    Less, because the idea is there will be less situations for those to "take matters" into whomever's hands.  It's about trying to rebuild the community infrastructure, because it has suffered from decades of neglect from white people vacating those neighborhoods because they couldn't handle the thought of equality with black people.  Rather than stay and continue to sustain or further build the economy, they jumped ship and it was left behind to people who couldn't financially support what had been built to that point.  Defunding the police, or better said to try to build communities through pushing more budget toward public services is not a short-term fix.  It will take several years to build.  What short-term fix in the past 50 years has made it more safe for a black person when apprehended by police?  It's this constant "retraining" or "reform" that is nothing more than a CYA that constantly moves the system laterally.

    You're a trusting man, apparently.  I don't have the faith that you do.  If what you say is correct and this de-funding movement results in some better world, I'm not sure what will be left standing by the time that happens.  Might as well scrape these cities and start from the ground up at this rate.

    The reason why this shit is happening is because there are black men still being gunned down or strangled to death.  The opportunists can't find an opportunity to burn cities to the ground if there isn't a reason to protest.  Jesus, you think what is going on right now is going to fix the problem?  What is your solution to stop all of this?

    Don't have a solution and never claimed to have one.  Many here think they have all the answers.  I sure as fuck don't.  But taking cops off the street to let cities burn to the ground doesn't do a bit of good.

    bbiggs said:
    bbiggs said:
    bbiggs said:
    PJNB said:
    PJPOWER said:
    PJNB said:
    PJPOWER said:
    Shit is out of control. One of the rioters was shot in the head in Kenosha last night:


    And there was a madman with an assault-style weapon shooting people. Not sure if it’s the same guy that shot the guy in the first video. But he shoots  two people at short range in this video:

    Graphic:
    https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1298507433975799809?s=21

    Just complete and utter fucking chaos. 
    There ya have it...That is going to be the result of looting and burning people’s businesses.  The business owners can not afford to just let their businesses get burned to the ground.  They are going to start fighting back...and I don’t blame them.  What did they think would happen?

    You think its ok to execute someone for looting?
    I think it’s okay for people to protect their property.  
    So thats a yes? 
    It's not a great question, you are pretending it's all happening in a vacuum.

    It's Newton's 3rd law.

    1) Cops shoot black man in back
    2) Protests
    3) People using protest to destroy and loot 
    4) Leadership fails to adequately handle the situation 
    5) People take action into their own hands

    Stupid gun laws + stupid police norms + stupid looters = Kenosha, WI

    When we leave regular citizens to make the determination on appropriate level of force....we are in big trouble

    Trick question.  When this de-funding of the police movement continues to progress, do we think more or less people will start taking matters into their own hands?  I think we're seeing the answer very clearly.

    Less, because the idea is there will be less situations for those to "take matters" into whomever's hands.  It's about trying to rebuild the community infrastructure, because it has suffered from decades of neglect from white people vacating those neighborhoods because they couldn't handle the thought of equality with black people.  Rather than stay and continue to sustain or further build the economy, they jumped ship and it was left behind to people who couldn't financially support what had been built to that point.  Defunding the police, or better said to try to build communities through pushing more budget toward public services is not a short-term fix.  It will take several years to build.  What short-term fix in the past 50 years has made it more safe for a black person when apprehended by police?  It's this constant "retraining" or "reform" that is nothing more than a CYA that constantly moves the system laterally.

    You're a trusting man, apparently.  I don't have the faith that you do.  If what you say is correct and this de-funding movement results in some better world, I'm not sure what will be left standing by the time that happens.  Might as well scrape these cities and start from the ground up at this rate.

    The reason why this shit is happening is because there are black men still being gunned down or strangled to death.  The opportunists can't find an opportunity to burn cities to the ground if there isn't a reason to protest.  Jesus, you think what is going on right now is going to fix the problem?  What is your solution to stop all of this?

    Don't have a solution and never claimed to have one.  Many here think they have all the answers.  I sure as fuck don't.  But taking cops off the street to let cities burn to the ground doesn't do a bit of good.

    I never said you had one, but if you're going to poke holes in other's logic, at least have something to contribute.  Defunding doesn't have to take cops off of the street.  Police budgets aren't all just about head count.  Plus who's to say cities will burn if there are less cops?  Cities are burning because of bad cops.  Not every cop is bad, but there is a systemic problem that needs to be issued and just saying less cops = cities to rubble isn't looking further than their hand in front of their face.

    Last time I'm going to respond because you and I are running in circles.  First, I have had plenty to contribute.  To summarize, don't take cops off the street and expect people to behave.  We're getting a crystal clear picture how that works out and it isn't pretty.  Also, don't condone looting and vandalism as acceptable behavior to combat racial inequality.  You disagree with my stance and that's fine.  I disagree with yours in that removing cops will better the situation.  So let's move on.  Second, who's to say cities will burn with less cops?  Ummm, have you turned on the news lately?  They are literally burning.  This is not a figure of speech.  You can champion your position and I can champion mine.  Neither of us want people being shot or beaten, and additionally, I don't want looting, burning or destruction.

    If cities are “literally burning” now, it is with the current complement of police, not in a defunded situation. Your speculation that things would be worse if police departments were altered in some way is just speculation, with no evidence. It’s also entirely possible that the situation in these cities would improve, if fewer police were harassing and assaulting their citizens. 
    Wrong.  Not speculation.  I know for a fact that police presence has been lessened in Chicago and there has been mayhem as a result.  Fact.  If you want to speculate that fewer police will lead to a eutopian city, have at it.

    Chicago has not reduced its police force, which is significantly more per capital than other large cities such as NYC and LA. They have not cut their police budget either. In the past, when the city has cut the police budget and consequently the number of police, crime rates fell during the same period. 

    So yes, you’re speculating. 
    Listen.  You can read and research all you want on the topic.  I live here and have friends in Chicago PD.  I'm getting first-hand accounts from "boots on the ground;" not what Google tells me.  The police presence has been intentionally scaled back during this surge of recent bullshit (i.e. looting, vandalizing, rioting).  So please don't tell me I'm speculating considering our distances to the source.
    Who gave the word to scale back?
    I'll ask my friend and get back to you.  Google won't be able to answer this one.

    I appreciate that. 
    My pleasure.  I aim to please.

  • Options
    Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,813
    mcgruff10 said:
    bbiggs said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    wonder what those boots taste like.
    Knowing him, either bourbon or a local ipa.  However that is just pure speculation.
    Actually, this is likely the first speculative comment today that is true.
    I m about to crack open a bottle of Pinot Grigio.  The real question is, how many ice cubes will be going in the glass?  The person who guesses closest wins a Pitt ‘13 se poster.  ;)
    There’s not enough ice in the world and you only ice the Cabernet. Trick question.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • Options
    Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,813
    mcgruff10 said:
    The answer is two ice cubes.  Cheers everyone! For everyone who guessed two ice cubes please contact @Halifax2TheMax   For your 2013 Pitt se poster   
    Sacrilege!
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • Options
    josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 28,375
    mcgruff10 said:
    The answer is two ice cubes.  Cheers everyone! For everyone who guessed two ice cubes please contact @Halifax2TheMax   For your 2013 Pitt se poster   
    Just when I think you turned a corner the Jersey in you comes out! Pizza goes with red or beer period or better yet a cold can or bottle of classic coke..
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • Options
    mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 27,985
    mcgruff10 said:
    The answer is two ice cubes.  Cheers everyone! For everyone who guessed two ice cubes please contact @Halifax2TheMax   For your 2013 Pitt se poster   
    Just when I think you turned a corner the Jersey in you comes out! Pizza goes with red or beer period or better yet a cold can or bottle of classic coke..
    I don’t make  fun of you when you crack open a Zima or mad dog with your pizza. Why the hate?!
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • Options
    bbiggsbbiggs Posts: 6,932
    mcgruff10 said:
    The answer is two ice cubes.  Cheers everyone! For everyone who guessed two ice cubes please contact @Halifax2TheMax   For your 2013 Pitt se poster   
    Just when I think you turned a corner the Jersey in you comes out! Pizza goes with red or beer period or better yet a cold can or bottle of classic coke..
    McDonald's fountain coke > Mexican bottled Coke > American bottled Coke > canned Coke

    That's it.  Cannot be debated. 

  • Options
    josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 28,375
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    The answer is two ice cubes.  Cheers everyone! For everyone who guessed two ice cubes please contact @Halifax2TheMax   For your 2013 Pitt se poster   
    Just when I think you turned a corner the Jersey in you comes out! Pizza goes with red or beer period or better yet a cold can or bottle of classic coke..
    I don’t make  fun of you when you crack open a Zima or mad dog with your pizza. Why the hate?!
    Puff I’m 60 I’ve eaten more pizza than you’ve crapped all with Italian friends you have no argument lol

    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • Options
    oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,844
    mcgruff10 said:
    bbiggs said:
    bbiggs said:
    bbiggs said:
    bbiggs said:
    PJNB said:
    PJPOWER said:
    PJNB said:
    PJPOWER said:
    Shit is out of control. One of the rioters was shot in the head in Kenosha last night:


    And there was a madman with an assault-style weapon shooting people. Not sure if it’s the same guy that shot the guy in the first video. But he shoots  two people at short range in this video:

    Graphic:
    https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1298507433975799809?s=21

    Just complete and utter fucking chaos. 
    There ya have it...That is going to be the result of looting and burning people’s businesses.  The business owners can not afford to just let their businesses get burned to the ground.  They are going to start fighting back...and I don’t blame them.  What did they think would happen?

    You think its ok to execute someone for looting?
    I think it’s okay for people to protect their property.  
    So thats a yes? 
    It's not a great question, you are pretending it's all happening in a vacuum.

    It's Newton's 3rd law.

    1) Cops shoot black man in back
    2) Protests
    3) People using protest to destroy and loot 
    4) Leadership fails to adequately handle the situation 
    5) People take action into their own hands

    Stupid gun laws + stupid police norms + stupid looters = Kenosha, WI

    When we leave regular citizens to make the determination on appropriate level of force....we are in big trouble

    Trick question.  When this de-funding of the police movement continues to progress, do we think more or less people will start taking matters into their own hands?  I think we're seeing the answer very clearly.

    Less, because the idea is there will be less situations for those to "take matters" into whomever's hands.  It's about trying to rebuild the community infrastructure, because it has suffered from decades of neglect from white people vacating those neighborhoods because they couldn't handle the thought of equality with black people.  Rather than stay and continue to sustain or further build the economy, they jumped ship and it was left behind to people who couldn't financially support what had been built to that point.  Defunding the police, or better said to try to build communities through pushing more budget toward public services is not a short-term fix.  It will take several years to build.  What short-term fix in the past 50 years has made it more safe for a black person when apprehended by police?  It's this constant "retraining" or "reform" that is nothing more than a CYA that constantly moves the system laterally.

    You're a trusting man, apparently.  I don't have the faith that you do.  If what you say is correct and this de-funding movement results in some better world, I'm not sure what will be left standing by the time that happens.  Might as well scrape these cities and start from the ground up at this rate.

    The reason why this shit is happening is because there are black men still being gunned down or strangled to death.  The opportunists can't find an opportunity to burn cities to the ground if there isn't a reason to protest.  Jesus, you think what is going on right now is going to fix the problem?  What is your solution to stop all of this?

    Don't have a solution and never claimed to have one.  Many here think they have all the answers.  I sure as fuck don't.  But taking cops off the street to let cities burn to the ground doesn't do a bit of good.

    bbiggs said:
    bbiggs said:
    bbiggs said:
    PJNB said:
    PJPOWER said:
    PJNB said:
    PJPOWER said:
    Shit is out of control. One of the rioters was shot in the head in Kenosha last night:


    And there was a madman with an assault-style weapon shooting people. Not sure if it’s the same guy that shot the guy in the first video. But he shoots  two people at short range in this video:

    Graphic:
    https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1298507433975799809?s=21

    Just complete and utter fucking chaos. 
    There ya have it...That is going to be the result of looting and burning people’s businesses.  The business owners can not afford to just let their businesses get burned to the ground.  They are going to start fighting back...and I don’t blame them.  What did they think would happen?

    You think its ok to execute someone for looting?
    I think it’s okay for people to protect their property.  
    So thats a yes? 
    It's not a great question, you are pretending it's all happening in a vacuum.

    It's Newton's 3rd law.

    1) Cops shoot black man in back
    2) Protests
    3) People using protest to destroy and loot 
    4) Leadership fails to adequately handle the situation 
    5) People take action into their own hands

    Stupid gun laws + stupid police norms + stupid looters = Kenosha, WI

    When we leave regular citizens to make the determination on appropriate level of force....we are in big trouble

    Trick question.  When this de-funding of the police movement continues to progress, do we think more or less people will start taking matters into their own hands?  I think we're seeing the answer very clearly.

    Less, because the idea is there will be less situations for those to "take matters" into whomever's hands.  It's about trying to rebuild the community infrastructure, because it has suffered from decades of neglect from white people vacating those neighborhoods because they couldn't handle the thought of equality with black people.  Rather than stay and continue to sustain or further build the economy, they jumped ship and it was left behind to people who couldn't financially support what had been built to that point.  Defunding the police, or better said to try to build communities through pushing more budget toward public services is not a short-term fix.  It will take several years to build.  What short-term fix in the past 50 years has made it more safe for a black person when apprehended by police?  It's this constant "retraining" or "reform" that is nothing more than a CYA that constantly moves the system laterally.

    You're a trusting man, apparently.  I don't have the faith that you do.  If what you say is correct and this de-funding movement results in some better world, I'm not sure what will be left standing by the time that happens.  Might as well scrape these cities and start from the ground up at this rate.

    The reason why this shit is happening is because there are black men still being gunned down or strangled to death.  The opportunists can't find an opportunity to burn cities to the ground if there isn't a reason to protest.  Jesus, you think what is going on right now is going to fix the problem?  What is your solution to stop all of this?

    Don't have a solution and never claimed to have one.  Many here think they have all the answers.  I sure as fuck don't.  But taking cops off the street to let cities burn to the ground doesn't do a bit of good.

    I never said you had one, but if you're going to poke holes in other's logic, at least have something to contribute.  Defunding doesn't have to take cops off of the street.  Police budgets aren't all just about head count.  Plus who's to say cities will burn if there are less cops?  Cities are burning because of bad cops.  Not every cop is bad, but there is a systemic problem that needs to be issued and just saying less cops = cities to rubble isn't looking further than their hand in front of their face.

    Last time I'm going to respond because you and I are running in circles.  First, I have had plenty to contribute.  To summarize, don't take cops off the street and expect people to behave.  We're getting a crystal clear picture how that works out and it isn't pretty.  Also, don't condone looting and vandalism as acceptable behavior to combat racial inequality.  You disagree with my stance and that's fine.  I disagree with yours in that removing cops will better the situation.  So let's move on.  Second, who's to say cities will burn with less cops?  Ummm, have you turned on the news lately?  They are literally burning.  This is not a figure of speech.  You can champion your position and I can champion mine.  Neither of us want people being shot or beaten, and additionally, I don't want looting, burning or destruction.

    If cities are “literally burning” now, it is with the current complement of police, not in a defunded situation. Your speculation that things would be worse if police departments were altered in some way is just speculation, with no evidence. It’s also entirely possible that the situation in these cities would improve, if fewer police were harassing and assaulting their citizens. 
    Wrong.  Not speculation.  I know for a fact that police presence has been lessened in Chicago and there has been mayhem as a result.  Fact.  If you want to speculate that fewer police will lead to a eutopian city, have at it.

    Chicago has not reduced its police force, which is significantly more per capital than other large cities such as NYC and LA. They have not cut their police budget either. In the past, when the city has cut the police budget and consequently the number of police, crime rates fell during the same period. 

    So yes, you’re speculating. 
    Which cities have had lower crime rates due to cutting the police budget? 

    I didn’t say other cities, I said that in the past when chicago has cut its budget it coincided with a reduction in crime rates. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Options
    josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 28,375
    Glad NBA & MLB have decided to stand with BLM fuck cops killing black Americans!
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • Options
    mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 27,985
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    The answer is two ice cubes.  Cheers everyone! For everyone who guessed two ice cubes please contact @Halifax2TheMax   For your 2013 Pitt se poster   
    Just when I think you turned a corner the Jersey in you comes out! Pizza goes with red or beer period or better yet a cold can or bottle of classic coke..
    I don’t make  fun of you when you crack open a Zima or mad dog with your pizza. Why the hate?!
    Puff I’m 60 I’ve eaten more pizza than you’ve crapped all with Italian friends you have no argument lol

    Dude you are from Chile, do you even know what pizza is? ;)

    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • Options
    mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 27,985
    mcgruff10 said:
    bbiggs said:
    bbiggs said:
    bbiggs said:
    bbiggs said:
    PJNB said:
    PJPOWER said:
    PJNB said:
    PJPOWER said:
    Shit is out of control. One of the rioters was shot in the head in Kenosha last night:


    And there was a madman with an assault-style weapon shooting people. Not sure if it’s the same guy that shot the guy in the first video. But he shoots  two people at short range in this video:

    Graphic:
    https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1298507433975799809?s=21

    Just complete and utter fucking chaos. 
    There ya have it...That is going to be the result of looting and burning people’s businesses.  The business owners can not afford to just let their businesses get burned to the ground.  They are going to start fighting back...and I don’t blame them.  What did they think would happen?

    You think its ok to execute someone for looting?
    I think it’s okay for people to protect their property.  
    So thats a yes? 
    It's not a great question, you are pretending it's all happening in a vacuum.

    It's Newton's 3rd law.

    1) Cops shoot black man in back
    2) Protests
    3) People using protest to destroy and loot 
    4) Leadership fails to adequately handle the situation 
    5) People take action into their own hands

    Stupid gun laws + stupid police norms + stupid looters = Kenosha, WI

    When we leave regular citizens to make the determination on appropriate level of force....we are in big trouble

    Trick question.  When this de-funding of the police movement continues to progress, do we think more or less people will start taking matters into their own hands?  I think we're seeing the answer very clearly.

    Less, because the idea is there will be less situations for those to "take matters" into whomever's hands.  It's about trying to rebuild the community infrastructure, because it has suffered from decades of neglect from white people vacating those neighborhoods because they couldn't handle the thought of equality with black people.  Rather than stay and continue to sustain or further build the economy, they jumped ship and it was left behind to people who couldn't financially support what had been built to that point.  Defunding the police, or better said to try to build communities through pushing more budget toward public services is not a short-term fix.  It will take several years to build.  What short-term fix in the past 50 years has made it more safe for a black person when apprehended by police?  It's this constant "retraining" or "reform" that is nothing more than a CYA that constantly moves the system laterally.

    You're a trusting man, apparently.  I don't have the faith that you do.  If what you say is correct and this de-funding movement results in some better world, I'm not sure what will be left standing by the time that happens.  Might as well scrape these cities and start from the ground up at this rate.

    The reason why this shit is happening is because there are black men still being gunned down or strangled to death.  The opportunists can't find an opportunity to burn cities to the ground if there isn't a reason to protest.  Jesus, you think what is going on right now is going to fix the problem?  What is your solution to stop all of this?

    Don't have a solution and never claimed to have one.  Many here think they have all the answers.  I sure as fuck don't.  But taking cops off the street to let cities burn to the ground doesn't do a bit of good.

    bbiggs said:
    bbiggs said:
    bbiggs said:
    PJNB said:
    PJPOWER said:
    PJNB said:
    PJPOWER said:
    Shit is out of control. One of the rioters was shot in the head in Kenosha last night:


    And there was a madman with an assault-style weapon shooting people. Not sure if it’s the same guy that shot the guy in the first video. But he shoots  two people at short range in this video:

    Graphic:
    https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1298507433975799809?s=21

    Just complete and utter fucking chaos. 
    There ya have it...That is going to be the result of looting and burning people’s businesses.  The business owners can not afford to just let their businesses get burned to the ground.  They are going to start fighting back...and I don’t blame them.  What did they think would happen?

    You think its ok to execute someone for looting?
    I think it’s okay for people to protect their property.  
    So thats a yes? 
    It's not a great question, you are pretending it's all happening in a vacuum.

    It's Newton's 3rd law.

    1) Cops shoot black man in back
    2) Protests
    3) People using protest to destroy and loot 
    4) Leadership fails to adequately handle the situation 
    5) People take action into their own hands

    Stupid gun laws + stupid police norms + stupid looters = Kenosha, WI

    When we leave regular citizens to make the determination on appropriate level of force....we are in big trouble

    Trick question.  When this de-funding of the police movement continues to progress, do we think more or less people will start taking matters into their own hands?  I think we're seeing the answer very clearly.

    Less, because the idea is there will be less situations for those to "take matters" into whomever's hands.  It's about trying to rebuild the community infrastructure, because it has suffered from decades of neglect from white people vacating those neighborhoods because they couldn't handle the thought of equality with black people.  Rather than stay and continue to sustain or further build the economy, they jumped ship and it was left behind to people who couldn't financially support what had been built to that point.  Defunding the police, or better said to try to build communities through pushing more budget toward public services is not a short-term fix.  It will take several years to build.  What short-term fix in the past 50 years has made it more safe for a black person when apprehended by police?  It's this constant "retraining" or "reform" that is nothing more than a CYA that constantly moves the system laterally.

    You're a trusting man, apparently.  I don't have the faith that you do.  If what you say is correct and this de-funding movement results in some better world, I'm not sure what will be left standing by the time that happens.  Might as well scrape these cities and start from the ground up at this rate.

    The reason why this shit is happening is because there are black men still being gunned down or strangled to death.  The opportunists can't find an opportunity to burn cities to the ground if there isn't a reason to protest.  Jesus, you think what is going on right now is going to fix the problem?  What is your solution to stop all of this?

    Don't have a solution and never claimed to have one.  Many here think they have all the answers.  I sure as fuck don't.  But taking cops off the street to let cities burn to the ground doesn't do a bit of good.

    I never said you had one, but if you're going to poke holes in other's logic, at least have something to contribute.  Defunding doesn't have to take cops off of the street.  Police budgets aren't all just about head count.  Plus who's to say cities will burn if there are less cops?  Cities are burning because of bad cops.  Not every cop is bad, but there is a systemic problem that needs to be issued and just saying less cops = cities to rubble isn't looking further than their hand in front of their face.

    Last time I'm going to respond because you and I are running in circles.  First, I have had plenty to contribute.  To summarize, don't take cops off the street and expect people to behave.  We're getting a crystal clear picture how that works out and it isn't pretty.  Also, don't condone looting and vandalism as acceptable behavior to combat racial inequality.  You disagree with my stance and that's fine.  I disagree with yours in that removing cops will better the situation.  So let's move on.  Second, who's to say cities will burn with less cops?  Ummm, have you turned on the news lately?  They are literally burning.  This is not a figure of speech.  You can champion your position and I can champion mine.  Neither of us want people being shot or beaten, and additionally, I don't want looting, burning or destruction.

    If cities are “literally burning” now, it is with the current complement of police, not in a defunded situation. Your speculation that things would be worse if police departments were altered in some way is just speculation, with no evidence. It’s also entirely possible that the situation in these cities would improve, if fewer police were harassing and assaulting their citizens. 
    Wrong.  Not speculation.  I know for a fact that police presence has been lessened in Chicago and there has been mayhem as a result.  Fact.  If you want to speculate that fewer police will lead to a eutopian city, have at it.

    Chicago has not reduced its police force, which is significantly more per capital than other large cities such as NYC and LA. They have not cut their police budget either. In the past, when the city has cut the police budget and consequently the number of police, crime rates fell during the same period. 

    So yes, you’re speculating. 
    Which cities have had lower crime rates due to cutting the police budget? 

    I didn’t say other cities, I said that in the past when chicago has cut its budget it coincided with a reduction in crime rates. 
    When did this occur?
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
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    josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 28,375
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    The answer is two ice cubes.  Cheers everyone! For everyone who guessed two ice cubes please contact @Halifax2TheMax   For your 2013 Pitt se poster   
    Just when I think you turned a corner the Jersey in you comes out! Pizza goes with red or beer period or better yet a cold can or bottle of classic coke..
    I don’t make  fun of you when you crack open a Zima or mad dog with your pizza. Why the hate?!
    Puff I’m 60 I’ve eaten more pizza than you’ve crapped all with Italian friends you have no argument lol

    Dude you are from Chile, do you even know what pizza is? ;)

    lol you got me but I’ve been here since 1971 what year were you born?
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
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