Police abuse

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  • FiveBelow
    FiveBelow Posts: 1,332
    oftenreading said:
    mace1229 said:
    cincybearcat said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    And a busted tail light gets you shot in the face and killed at 60, if you’re black. Guess it doesn’t fit the back the blue narrative?


    https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/08/17/903279335/georgia-state-trooper-faces-felony-murder-charges-in-traffic-stop-shooting
    This is what I hate the most.  The needless interaction created by a cop and then escalated by a cop.  Stop the senseless interactions and stop a lot of this criminal behavior by police.
    I can agree there doesn’t seem to be reasonable use of deadly force.
    But what do you mean a needless interaction created by the cop and then escalated by the cop?
    According to that article he was stopping him a traffic offense. What is needless about that? He then fled and refused to pull over. Again, how is that the cop escalating it?
    The cop ran him off the road for a broken tail light. He then fired into the car without even providing a verbal warning first. I’d call that escalating. 
    He tried to pull him over for a broken tail light, it appears he then tried a PIT maneuver after the victim refused to stop and led a chase down several county roads. Refusing to stop and running "escalated" the situation from a normal traffic stop. What ultimately happened appears very unnecessary, but creating a situation where you force a police officer to make a split second decision is never a good idea.
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    Good policing practice requires assessing when it makes sense to pursue someone and when it doesn’t. Police pursuit tends to lead to bad outcomes, which is why it is now discouraged and tighter guidelines are in place in competent police departments. 

    The pursuit was needless. That officer had no reasonable cause for it, since he had no reason to suspect the victim other than a broken tail light (and of course the colour of his skin). That was his first mistake, but unfortunately for the victim not his last. 

    And my, I wonder why the victim would have been reluctant to stop his car for this officer? 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,834
    oftenreading said:
    Good policing practice requires assessing when it makes sense to pursue someone and when it doesn’t. Police pursuit tends to lead to bad outcomes, which is why it is now discouraged and tighter guidelines are in place in competent police departments. 

    The pursuit was needless. That officer had no reasonable cause for it, since he had no reason to suspect the victim other than a broken tail light (and of course the colour of his skin). That was his first mistake, but unfortunately for the victim not his last. 

    And my, I wonder why the victim would have been reluctant to stop his car for this officer? 
    Solid question.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • FiveBelow
    FiveBelow Posts: 1,332
    oftenreading said:
    Good policing practice requires assessing when it makes sense to pursue someone and when it doesn’t. Police pursuit tends to lead to bad outcomes, which is why it is now discouraged and tighter guidelines are in place in competent police departments. 

    The pursuit was needless. That officer had no reasonable cause for it, since he had no reason to suspect the victim other than a broken tail light (and of course the colour of his skin). That was his first mistake, but unfortunately for the victim not his last. 

    And my, I wonder why the victim would have been reluctant to stop his car for this officer? 
    With roughly 50-60 million police to public interactions and around 1,000 people (of all races) losing their lives at the hands of police each year, the fear of one becoming a statistic is a bit excessive. Especially when you only factor those who were truly victims of wrongdoing. If deaths by police were a virus there would be very little public concern, but somehow the topic has been elevated to full blown pandemic mode. There are obviously issues in this country with policing, but the numbers do not match the current message being portrayed.
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 9,829
    JW269453 said:
    oftenreading said:
    Good policing practice requires assessing when it makes sense to pursue someone and when it doesn’t. Police pursuit tends to lead to bad outcomes, which is why it is now discouraged and tighter guidelines are in place in competent police departments. 

    The pursuit was needless. That officer had no reasonable cause for it, since he had no reason to suspect the victim other than a broken tail light (and of course the colour of his skin). That was his first mistake, but unfortunately for the victim not his last. 

    And my, I wonder why the victim would have been reluctant to stop his car for this officer? 
    With roughly 50-60 million police to public interactions and around 1,000 people (of all races) losing their lives at the hands of police each year, the fear of one becoming a statistic is a bit excessive. Especially when you only factor those who were truly victims of wrongdoing. If deaths by police were a virus there would be very little public concern, but somehow the topic has been elevated to full blown pandemic mode. There are obviously issues in this country with policing, but the numbers do not match the current message being portrayed.
    Exactly. To say he was afraid for his life as the reason for not pulling over is ridiculous. I think that 50-60 million interactions is a low estimate. Not cooperating and turning a traffic stop into a felony will certainly increase your chances of this not ending well.
    As far as I can tell the cop didn’t have justification to shoot him. I agree on that. But let’s stop getting more people killed by spreading fear. I remember I heard CNN anchor justify Rayshard Brooks using that taser because he knew he’d be murdered if he got in that cop car. I thought our system was over crowded with minorities? How’d that happen if they are all murdered on the way?
  • DewieCox
    DewieCox Posts: 11,432
    Sounds like the cop was a known shitbag, to some in the public at the very least. 
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    Some people are actually questioning the fact that people of colour would do their very best to avoid being stopped by police, even after all that's happened over the past couple of months?
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    mace1229 said:
    JW269453 said:
    oftenreading said:
    Good policing practice requires assessing when it makes sense to pursue someone and when it doesn’t. Police pursuit tends to lead to bad outcomes, which is why it is now discouraged and tighter guidelines are in place in competent police departments. 

    The pursuit was needless. That officer had no reasonable cause for it, since he had no reason to suspect the victim other than a broken tail light (and of course the colour of his skin). That was his first mistake, but unfortunately for the victim not his last. 

    And my, I wonder why the victim would have been reluctant to stop his car for this officer? 
    With roughly 50-60 million police to public interactions and around 1,000 people (of all races) losing their lives at the hands of police each year, the fear of one becoming a statistic is a bit excessive. Especially when you only factor those who were truly victims of wrongdoing. If deaths by police were a virus there would be very little public concern, but somehow the topic has been elevated to full blown pandemic mode. There are obviously issues in this country with policing, but the numbers do not match the current message being portrayed.
    Exactly. To say he was afraid for his life as the reason for not pulling over is ridiculous. I think that 50-60 million interactions is a low estimate. Not cooperating and turning a traffic stop into a felony will certainly increase your chances of this not ending well.
    As far as I can tell the cop didn’t have justification to shoot him. I agree on that. But let’s stop getting more people killed by spreading fear. I remember I heard CNN anchor justify Rayshard Brooks using that taser because he knew he’d be murdered if he got in that cop car. I thought our system was over crowded with minorities? How’d that happen if they are all murdered on the way?
    Hey, you’re right, I guess they don’t all die! Some just get racially profiled, detained without cause, roughed up and unfairly incarcerated. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • DewieCox
    DewieCox Posts: 11,432
    Is driving around with a broken taillight and/or fleeing really doing their best to avoid being stopped? More went into him running  than a $100 ticket and if it was fear of it escalating to the extent that it did than fleeing seems justified. 

    I’ve never been profiled but if I was uncomfortable with the location or absence of a reason I’d at least go someplace more public or call 911. We need to get to where everyone believes that is a viable option. 
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,834
    edited August 2020
    https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2016/07/09/philando-stops/

    Let's just stop pretending these are one offs.  Cops are targeting black men especially and making all kinds of reasons as to why to stop them.  And each time it creates a situation of frustration and fear.  Limiting encounters is the best option.

    52 times.  How many times have you been stopped?
    Post edited by cincybearcat on
    hippiemom = goodness
  • DewieCox
    DewieCox Posts: 11,432
    Crazy...probably around a dozen times in 20 years, counting roadside checkpoints 
  • bootlegger10
    bootlegger10 Posts: 16,256
    edited August 2020

    I've been pulled over 16 times in 23 years.  Got a lead foot and deserved to be pulled over every time.  The last three times I've been pulled over I got warnings each time.  The last one I was going 100mph while passing the unmarked cop car on the right and somehow got a warning!  The time before that the cop asked me why he pulled me over and my response was "I was being an idiot".  Two cop cars pulled me over and still got a warning. 

    I find it very hard to believe that this individual deserved to be pulled over 52 times.   Ridiculous. 

  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,834
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2018/07/17/what-data-on-20-million-traffic-stops-can-tell-us-about-driving-while-black/

    hippiemom = goodness
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,834
    I've been pulled over 3 times.  2x I deserved it somewhat...speeding but not that much.  Out of those I got 1 ticket and 1 warning.  The 3rd time was the bullshit fog light being out excuse.  Just dumb.  

    So - I've only had 3 times...and one of those was such nonsense it pisses me off still today.  I cannot imagine being pulled over as many times some black males are.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • FiveBelow
    FiveBelow Posts: 1,332
    cincybearcat said:
    I've been pulled over 3 times.  2x I deserved it somewhat...speeding but not that much.  Out of those I got 1 ticket and 1 warning.  The 3rd time was the bullshit fog light being out excuse.  Just dumb.  

    So - I've only had 3 times...and one of those was such nonsense it pisses me off still today.  I cannot imagine being pulled over as many times some black males are.
    Only 3 times is impressive. I have easily been pulled over 30+ times, and the majority of those stops were for bullshit between the ages 16-25 like no front license plate (probably 5x), expired inspection or registration (probably 10x, I got pulled over twice in the same day for expired inspection on a car that was 2 years old and already paid off), broken tail light or burnt out bulb, not signaling while changing lanes on the highway, excessive acceleration (I got pulled over for getting to the speed limit too fast, not breaking it), underage smoking, no shoulder belt (my friends car only had lap belts), having a lanyard hanging from my rear view mirror, touching the solid line, etc. I have been pulled over for speeding while getting passed by the person who was actually doing the speeding at least 5 times. The one thing I always did was pull over and do my best to keep my cool even when I knew it was BS, sometimes that resulted in a warning but not as often as you would think. I can say my wife gets away with a warning almost every time she has gotten pulled over.
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,146
    A little history.

    https://harpers.org/archive/2020/09/which-side-are-you-on-protests-police-unions/
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,146
    WARNING: Graphic video.

    11 times with his back turned. Do the police have any other methods of disabling a threat without shooting 11 times and to kill?

    https://apple.news/AYTbspgfNT6imWBxWLdlvqg
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,146
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    WARNING: Graphic video.

    11 times with his back turned. Do the police have any other methods of disabling a threat without shooting 11 times and to kill?

    https://apple.news/AYTbspgfNT6imWBxWLdlvqg
    If he were white with an AR-15, He’d be alive. Right?
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 9,829
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    WARNING: Graphic video.

    11 times with his back turned. Do the police have any other methods of disabling a threat without shooting 11 times and to kill?

    https://apple.news/AYTbspgfNT6imWBxWLdlvqg
    If he were white with an AR-15, He’d be alive. Right?
    If he was black and not threatening people with a knife he’d be alive too.
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,834
    mace1229 said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    WARNING: Graphic video.

    11 times with his back turned. Do the police have any other methods of disabling a threat without shooting 11 times and to kill?

    https://apple.news/AYTbspgfNT6imWBxWLdlvqg
    If he were white with an AR-15, He’d be alive. Right?
    If he was black and not threatening people with a knife he’d be alive too.
    C’mon you know even that is less a certainty than if white with a gun....
    hippiemom = goodness
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