Police abuse

bbiggs

There has been so much discussion (both in the media and this forum) about the peaceful BLM movement being infiltrated by bad actors.  However, when a BLM organizer openly states that "I don't care if someone decides to loot a Gucci or a Macy's or a Nike store, because that makes sure that person eats," it discredits that entire argument.  There are BLM organizers openly condoning looting.  How can that be defended?  My brother lives downtown and has to show proof of residency to get past certain "check points" just to get to his damn apartment.  This has spiraled out of control with no clear, constructive purpose anymore.

Ledbetterman10

bbiggs said:

There has been so much discussion (both in the media and this forum) about the peaceful BLM movement being infiltrated by bad actors.  However, when a BLM organizer openly states that "I don't care if someone decides to loot a Gucci or a Macy's or a Nike store, because that makes sure that person eats," it discredits that entire argument.  There are BLM organizers openly condoning looting.  How can that be defended?  My brother lives downtown and has to show proof of residency to get past certain "check points" just to get to his damn apartment.  This has spiraled out of control with no clear, constructive purpose anymore.

Which city? There was talk of that sort of thing in CHOP/CHAZ back when that was thing. Is your brother in Seattle?

DewieCox

There is a line that shouldn’t be crossed. It’s the law, give or take a little one way or the other.

When peaceful protest is ignored or openly combatted, what approach would you recommend?

If military is what it takes to ease tension, then fine. Not fine with them escalating of which I’ve seen a lot. 

Why would I have a problem with someone defending their property within the constraints of the law? I’d like to think that no one views their stock as more important than most all human life but if they feel truly endangered I get it. 

I do my best to see things from different perspectives, even if there are things I’ll never understand.  Not a cop hater, not cheering on riots or looting, dislike the rampant weaponizing of viewpoints. We’re all practically identical in what we ultimately want out of life and there are a million ideas on how to get there and I bet none of them are 100% right. I’ve tried, especially lately  after lashing out at a family member that’s a fervent Trumper, to understand more of that general perspective. I like being “ around” people that care about other people and thats a big part of why I’ve hung around here(probably what 90% left leaning?) and why I stick around the area I grew up, which is red as red can be. 

PJPOWER

DewieCox said:

There is a line that shouldn’t be crossed. It’s the law, give or take a little one way or the other.

When peaceful protest is ignored or openly combatted, what approach would you recommend?

If military is what it takes to ease tension, then fine. Not fine with them escalating of which I’ve seen a lot. 

Why would I have a problem with someone defending their property within the constraints of the law? I’d like to think that no one views their stock as more important than most all human life but if they feel truly endangered I get it. 

I do my best to see things from different perspectives, even if there are things I’ll never understand.  Not a cop hater, not cheering on riots or looting, dislike the rampant weaponizing of viewpoints. We’re all practically identical in what we ultimately want out of life and there are a million ideas on how to get there and I bet none of them are 100% right. I’ve tried, especially lately  after lashing out at a family member that’s a fervent Trumper, to understand more of that general perspective. I like being “ around” people that care about other people and thats a big part of why I’ve hung around here(probably what 90% left leaning?) and why I stick around the area I grew up, which is red as red can be. 

I think I better understand you now.  I think I misunderstood you to be saying that you are good with whatever it takes to make changes, whether it be looting, murder, etc.  I realize that isn’t your stance, and you seem way more level headed than the impression I got by reading your last comment at first glance.  When I see the craziness in these cities, my first thought is that there has got to be a method or avenue for change, but looting, rioting, assault is not it and should not be validated.  There is so much counterproductive shit happening and being endorsed that undermines the whole movement.  As Jesse Jackson put it, “embarrassing”.

bbiggs

Ledbetterman10 said:

bbiggs said:

There has been so much discussion (both in the media and this forum) about the peaceful BLM movement being infiltrated by bad actors.  However, when a BLM organizer openly states that "I don't care if someone decides to loot a Gucci or a Macy's or a Nike store, because that makes sure that person eats," it discredits that entire argument.  There are BLM organizers openly condoning looting.  How can that be defended?  My brother lives downtown and has to show proof of residency to get past certain "check points" just to get to his damn apartment.  This has spiraled out of control with no clear, constructive purpose anymore.

Which city? There was talk of that sort of thing in CHOP/CHAZ back when that was thing. Is your brother in Seattle?

Chicago.  They blocked off a lot of the major arteries within downtown, so if you were an actual resident and needed to use that street to get home, you had to show ID.

DewieCox

Yes, ugly, frightening and embarrassing. 

Ledbetterman10

bbiggs said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

bbiggs said:

There has been so much discussion (both in the media and this forum) about the peaceful BLM movement being infiltrated by bad actors.  However, when a BLM organizer openly states that "I don't care if someone decides to loot a Gucci or a Macy's or a Nike store, because that makes sure that person eats," it discredits that entire argument.  There are BLM organizers openly condoning looting.  How can that be defended?  My brother lives downtown and has to show proof of residency to get past certain "check points" just to get to his damn apartment.  This has spiraled out of control with no clear, constructive purpose anymore.

Which city? There was talk of that sort of thing in CHOP/CHAZ back when that was thing. Is your brother in Seattle?

Chicago.  They blocked off a lot of the major arteries within downtown, so if you were an actual resident and needed to use that street to get home, you had to show ID.

Oh okay. I thought you were referring to a CHAZ-like situation where CHAZ-people were demanding IDs from locals. So this seems like a safety-measure rather than anarchists throwing their weight around. Nevertheless, it's ridiculous that's it's come to that in Chicago. But not surprising. 

23scidoo

https://youtu.be/YRLwrT-9oeE

PJPOWER

23scidoo said:

https://youtu.be/YRLwrT-9oeE

Nothing to see here, just enforcing mandatory mask laws, move along folks.

23scidoo

PJPOWER said:

23scidoo said:

https://youtu.be/YRLwrT-9oeE

Nothing to see here, just enforcing mandatory mask laws, move along folks.

ha, ok..

josevolution

https://twitter.com/attorneycrump/status/1294671229505478658?s=21
Just a noise complaint gets you a total beat down! Nice cops

Halifax2TheMax

And a busted tail light gets you shot in the face and killed at 60, if you’re black. Guess it doesn’t fit the back the blue narrative?


https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/08/17/903279335/georgia-state-trooper-faces-felony-murder-charges-in-traffic-stop-shooting

cincybearcat

Halifax2TheMax said:

And a busted tail light gets you shot in the face and killed at 60, if you’re black. Guess it doesn’t fit the back the blue narrative?


https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/08/17/903279335/georgia-state-trooper-faces-felony-murder-charges-in-traffic-stop-shooting

This is what I hate the most.  The needless interaction created by a cop and then escalated by a cop.  Stop the senseless interactions and stop a lot of this criminal behavior by police.

DewieCox

Be interesting to see how it actually played out and the actual motivation to “escalate”. 

Sad that its a step I n the right direction as far as accountability. 

mace1229

cincybearcat said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

And a busted tail light gets you shot in the face and killed at 60, if you’re black. Guess it doesn’t fit the back the blue narrative?


https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/08/17/903279335/georgia-state-trooper-faces-felony-murder-charges-in-traffic-stop-shooting

This is what I hate the most.  The needless interaction created by a cop and then escalated by a cop.  Stop the senseless interactions and stop a lot of this criminal behavior by police.

I can agree there doesn’t seem to be reasonable use of deadly force.
But what do you mean a needless interaction created by the cop and then escalated by the cop?
According to that article he was stopping him a traffic offense. What is needless about that? He then fled and refused to pull over. Again, how is that the cop escalating it?

oftenreading

mace1229 said:

cincybearcat said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

And a busted tail light gets you shot in the face and killed at 60, if you’re black. Guess it doesn’t fit the back the blue narrative?


https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/08/17/903279335/georgia-state-trooper-faces-felony-murder-charges-in-traffic-stop-shooting

This is what I hate the most.  The needless interaction created by a cop and then escalated by a cop.  Stop the senseless interactions and stop a lot of this criminal behavior by police.

I can agree there doesn’t seem to be reasonable use of deadly force.
But what do you mean a needless interaction created by the cop and then escalated by the cop?
According to that article he was stopping him a traffic offense. What is needless about that? He then fled and refused to pull over. Again, how is that the cop escalating it?

The cop ran him off the road for a broken tail light. He then fired into the car without even providing a verbal warning first. I’d call that escalating. 

cincybearcat

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

cincybearcat said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

And a busted tail light gets you shot in the face and killed at 60, if you’re black. Guess it doesn’t fit the back the blue narrative?


https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/08/17/903279335/georgia-state-trooper-faces-felony-murder-charges-in-traffic-stop-shooting

This is what I hate the most.  The needless interaction created by a cop and then escalated by a cop.  Stop the senseless interactions and stop a lot of this criminal behavior by police.

I can agree there doesn’t seem to be reasonable use of deadly force.
But what do you mean a needless interaction created by the cop and then escalated by the cop?
According to that article he was stopping him a traffic offense. What is needless about that? He then fled and refused to pull over. Again, how is that the cop escalating it?

The cop ran him off the road for a broken tail light. He then fired into the car without even providing a verbal warning first. I’d call that escalating. 

Yes, sorry didn't see this until now.  But this exactly.  

cincybearcat

I was stopped once for having a fog light out.  A FOG LIGHT.  I was near a university and I think they were trying to get me for more.  Thankfully I'm white.  My daughter was an infant in the car, crying and it was like -20F (without the windchill).  A FOG LIGHT OUT.  Stupid cops generate so many needless interactions its embarrassing.  As I said, thank god I was white and I just got a ticket for a FOG LIGHT out (not a headlight).  I had left the fog lights on from the previous drive.

Here's the deal.  If cops actually thought the best of people instead of always thinking the worst...there'd be less needless interactions and far less escalation.  But they don't.  They assume the worst and actively go and try and catch it even when it's not happening.  

DewieCox

Judging from the story, fleeing is the initial escalation, though the cop blew the whole thing out of the water and doesn’t seem to be a reliable source.

mace1229

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

cincybearcat said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

And a busted tail light gets you shot in the face and killed at 60, if you’re black. Guess it doesn’t fit the back the blue narrative?


https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/08/17/903279335/georgia-state-trooper-faces-felony-murder-charges-in-traffic-stop-shooting

This is what I hate the most.  The needless interaction created by a cop and then escalated by a cop.  Stop the senseless interactions and stop a lot of this criminal behavior by police.

I can agree there doesn’t seem to be reasonable use of deadly force.
But what do you mean a needless interaction created by the cop and then escalated by the cop?
According to that article he was stopping him a traffic offense. What is needless about that? He then fled and refused to pull over. Again, how is that the cop escalating it?

The cop ran him off the road for a broken tail light. He then fired into the car without even providing a verbal warning first. I’d call that escalating. 

They both escalated the situation. The cop just had the last word.
And still wasn’t a “needless interaction” at first. The cop was just in pulling him over.
And he wasn’t run off the road for a broken tail like, he was run off for fleeing. One’s a fix-it ticket and ones a felony with real jail time.

The cop seems to have done a lot wrong here. And the charges against him seem to fit. I just don’t agree with saying it was a needless interaction that started it and don’t agree with the assessment this cop is running people off the road over a fix-it ticket.