Police abuse

Ledbetterman10

mace1229 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

DewieCox said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

DewieCox said:

Maybe those St Louis cops shouldn’t have been arrested but they also should be stripped of their badges. That was hilariously atrocious police work. That anyone would use that case/video to condone a police shooting is laughable.

I agree. Shouldn't have been arrested. But yeah, they failed so epically in doing their job that should be fired. If two of you can't prevent one guy from stealing your taser, then you're not cut out for policing. 

I don't think anyone uses that incident to "condone" police shooting. But it was justified to shoot once the guy turned with the taser. It's just unfortunate that the cops' initial failure to subdue the suspect led to that scenario even being possible. They'll be acquitted, and St. Louis will be set ablaze because of it. 

If it’s their ineptitude that ultimately leads to the shooting, then where does their culpability end?

Well it did start with the suspect resisting arrest and becoming violent. So the culpability starts with him. It'd be nice if they were able to subdue him without him getting the taser. But his initial actions set in motion what got him killed. 

he was breaking up a fight. which is arguably the job of the police. he should have just let them fight then, right?

also, has he died? i heard he was in ICU expected to survive.

We weren't talking about that. We were talking about Rayshard Brooks in St. Louis from June. 

I was confused at first too because I'm pretty sure Brooks was in Atlanta, not St Luis. I was trying to think what happened in St Luis.
Brooks had like a foot over the cops, he was a big dude. Not surprising they struggled controlling him. You can't require all cops to be 6' 5" and bench 350 lbs, they are going to face people bigger and stronger than them

Ah that's my bad. I meant Atlanta. And I understand what you're saying. But tasers, pepper-spray, and batons can even out most size discrepancies. 

Meltdown99

Ledbetterman10 said:

Meltdown99 said:

When a cop ask you to stop...then stop.  Answer the questions or don’t ... but walking away back to your vehicle and reaching inside will likely get you shot...

This is true. And lord knows I'd stop and comply. But it doesn't always happen like that. And for the cops' own sake, they have to do a better job of not letting it escalate to firing their weapons, if possible. Obviously there will be some consequences for that officer. Maybe an arrest (like the bullshit arrest that happened to the St. Louis cops), probably a firing, or hell, maybe rioters will track them down and burn down their houses. That's the risk the cops run by allowing things to escalate. 

Once again it comes down to poor training for the police.  I'm not a cop in the States. But it's got to be un-nerving at times...especially with such a heavily armed bunch of citizens.  In the end if the idiot had just stopped and also engaged the cops in a respectful manner the outcome could have been different...

Halifax2TheMax

And to think Obama was ridiculed for hosting a beer summit when it happened to a Harvard professor in Cambridge. “Show us your papers, now!”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/08/24/santa-clara-campus-police-professor/

Halifax2TheMax

Yea, race doesn’t matter. Can’t wait for the dismissive explanation for this one.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CESK1tHgGcW/?igshid=1jigqnhlll4qw

mace1229

Halifax2TheMax said:

Yea, race doesn’t matter. Can’t wait for the dismissive explanation for this one.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CESK1tHgGcW/?igshid=1jigqnhlll4qw

Not sure what 12 more years has to do with police or race. But I thought it was funny when I heard that, I laughed.

josevolution

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

WARNING: Graphic video.

11 times with his back turned. Do the police have any other methods of disabling a threat without shooting 11 times and to kill?

https://apple.news/AYTbspgfNT6imWBxWLdlvqg

If he were white with an AR-15, He’d be alive. Right?

If he was black and not threatening people with a knife he’d be alive too.

lol NO!

HughFreakingDillon

OnWis97 said:

RunIntoTheRain said:

I'm sure @mace1229 will be able to combine assumption and common sense to explain why he needed to be shot. 

This one's actually low-hanging fruit...how do we know he's not going into the car to get a gun?

aren't cops supposed to wait until they SEE a gun before they shoot?

people saying "he shouldn't have resisted" didn't watch the george floyd video. you want to die with a knee on your neck too?

static111

Anyone says that he shouldn’t have resisted isn’t paying attention or isn’t human.  Officers aren’t above the law. Officers abuse the resisting arrest charge to escalate situations. Is someone not showing you the respect you think your badge and gun deserves? He resisted arrest. Fuck that.  Respect is earned for everyone, just because you went to community college and got a piece of tin doesn’t entitle you to anymore or any less.  

Here is a crazy idea on how to stop situations from getting out of hand, Cops start acting like humans and stop being so trigger happy. The most recent incident in WI especially was escalated by police.  Even after escalating they could have tackled the guy etc, instead they wait until his back is turned and shoot him 7 times. If you can justify the trauma of shooting a father in front of his kids because he didn’t follow deputy dog’s orders you are a monster.

mace1229

HughFreakingDillon said:

OnWis97 said:

RunIntoTheRain said:

I'm sure @mace1229 will be able to combine assumption and common sense to explain why he needed to be shot. 

This one's actually low-hanging fruit...how do we know he's not going into the car to get a gun?

aren't cops supposed to wait until they SEE a gun before they shoot?

people saying "he shouldn't have resisted" didn't watch the george floyd video. you want to die with a knee on your neck too?

But didn't Floyd resist too? That's why they drug him out of the car to begin with.
I'm not saying what happened was right, I've said before that was one of the worst examples I've seen. But just in response to resisting or not.
And I think its an important detail too, because in nearly every case of black deaths (with just a few exceptions) it escalates from resisting. Again, I'm not saying the cops were all justified, but instead of teaching kids to fight back when a cop has a gun pointed at your face, we should be teaching them how to stay alive and be better about following up on complaints and all forms of abuse, be more transparent on complaints and procedures, even ones that don't result in death. Be better about so that the next time someone has a gun pointed at them they don't think this is my moment to make my stand. That's where we are going to save more lives.
 

Halifax2TheMax

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Yea, race doesn’t matter. Can’t wait for the dismissive explanation for this one.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CESK1tHgGcW/?igshid=1jigqnhlll4qw

Not sure what 12 more years has to do with police or race. But I thought it was funny when I heard that, I laughed.

Weird. Interwebbery and link skills lacking. Not the post to go with my words. If I can find it again, I’ll repost.

12 more years of cops shooting unarmed black people, potentially?

static111

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

OnWis97 said:

RunIntoTheRain said:

I'm sure @mace1229 will be able to combine assumption and common sense to explain why he needed to be shot. 

This one's actually low-hanging fruit...how do we know he's not going into the car to get a gun?

aren't cops supposed to wait until they SEE a gun before they shoot?

people saying "he shouldn't have resisted" didn't watch the george floyd video. you want to die with a knee on your neck too?

But didn't Floyd resist too? That's why they drug him out of the car to begin with.
I'm not saying what happened was right, I've said before that was one of the worst examples I've seen. But just in response to resisting or not.
And I think its an important detail too, because in nearly every case of black deaths (with just a few exceptions) it escalates from resisting. Again, I'm not saying the cops were all justified, but instead of teaching kids to fight back when a cop has a gun pointed at your face, we should be teaching them how to stay alive and be better about following up on complaints and all forms of abuse, be more transparent on complaints and procedures, even ones that don't result in death. Be better about so that the next time someone has a gun pointed at them they don't think this is my moment to make my stand. That's where we are going to save more lives.
 

There shouldn’t be a first time in many of these cases and that is on the officer.  We need to hold cops to higher standards and if they can’t measure up they can go pull their bootstraps up somewhere else.

HughFreakingDillon

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

OnWis97 said:

RunIntoTheRain said:

I'm sure @mace1229 will be able to combine assumption and common sense to explain why he needed to be shot. 

This one's actually low-hanging fruit...how do we know he's not going into the car to get a gun?

aren't cops supposed to wait until they SEE a gun before they shoot?

people saying "he shouldn't have resisted" didn't watch the george floyd video. you want to die with a knee on your neck too?

But didn't Floyd resist too? That's why they drug him out of the car to begin with.
I'm not saying what happened was right, I've said before that was one of the worst examples I've seen. But just in response to resisting or not.
And I think its an important detail too, because in nearly every case of black deaths (with just a few exceptions) it escalates from resisting. Again, I'm not saying the cops were all justified, but instead of teaching kids to fight back when a cop has a gun pointed at your face, we should be teaching them how to stay alive and be better about following up on complaints and all forms of abuse, be more transparent on complaints and procedures, even ones that don't result in death. Be better about so that the next time someone has a gun pointed at them they don't think this is my moment to make my stand. That's where we are going to save more lives.
 

i see what you're saying, however, the answer shouldn't be "teach black people how to comply". the answer should be "get better fucking cops". 

this guy didn't fight back. he was walking away. shot in the back. 7 times. 

floyd may have resisted, yes, i can't recall. but then to have 3 guys on you with one guy on your neck is absurd. 

i've seen videos of the cops yelling "stop resisting!" while the guy isn't moving a fucking muscle. I'd be terrified of getting detained too. I could see why some people would choose to run. 

PJNB

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

OnWis97 said:

RunIntoTheRain said:

I'm sure @mace1229 will be able to combine assumption and common sense to explain why he needed to be shot. 

This one's actually low-hanging fruit...how do we know he's not going into the car to get a gun?

aren't cops supposed to wait until they SEE a gun before they shoot?

people saying "he shouldn't have resisted" didn't watch the george floyd video. you want to die with a knee on your neck too?

But didn't Floyd resist too? That's why they drug him out of the car to begin with.
I'm not saying what happened was right, I've said before that was one of the worst examples I've seen. But just in response to resisting or not.
And I think its an important detail too, because in nearly every case of black deaths (with just a few exceptions) it escalates from resisting. Again, I'm not saying the cops were all justified, but instead of teaching kids to fight back when a cop has a gun pointed at your face, we should be teaching them how to stay alive and be better about following up on complaints and all forms of abuse, be more transparent on complaints and procedures, even ones that don't result in death. Be better about so that the next time someone has a gun pointed at them they don't think this is my moment to make my stand. That's where we are going to save more lives.
 

More victim blaming from you. We are going to save more lives when cops stop killing unarmed people. Plain and simple. 

Ledbetterman10

The victim of the shooting in Wisconsin is now paralyzed from the waist-down. 

https://time.com/5883232/jacob-blake-paralyzed-police-shooting/?ocid=uxbndlbing

mace1229

PJNB said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

OnWis97 said:

RunIntoTheRain said:

I'm sure @mace1229 will be able to combine assumption and common sense to explain why he needed to be shot. 

This one's actually low-hanging fruit...how do we know he's not going into the car to get a gun?

aren't cops supposed to wait until they SEE a gun before they shoot?

people saying "he shouldn't have resisted" didn't watch the george floyd video. you want to die with a knee on your neck too?

But didn't Floyd resist too? That's why they drug him out of the car to begin with.
I'm not saying what happened was right, I've said before that was one of the worst examples I've seen. But just in response to resisting or not.
And I think its an important detail too, because in nearly every case of black deaths (with just a few exceptions) it escalates from resisting. Again, I'm not saying the cops were all justified, but instead of teaching kids to fight back when a cop has a gun pointed at your face, we should be teaching them how to stay alive and be better about following up on complaints and all forms of abuse, be more transparent on complaints and procedures, even ones that don't result in death. Be better about so that the next time someone has a gun pointed at them they don't think this is my moment to make my stand. That's where we are going to save more lives.
 

More victim blaming from you. We are going to save more lives when cops stop killing unarmed people. Plain and simple. 

Its funny how I can repeat twice it wasn't the victims fault and many times the cops are to be blamed, and then be accused of victim blaming because I want to teach kids how to live.

tempo_n_groove

static111 said:

Anyone says that he shouldn’t have resisted isn’t paying attention or isn’t human.  Officers aren’t above the law. Officers abuse the resisting arrest charge to escalate situations. Is someone not showing you the respect you think your badge and gun deserves? He resisted arrest. Fuck that.  Respect is earned for everyone, just because you went to community college and got a piece of tin doesn’t entitle you to anymore or any less.  

Here is a crazy idea on how to stop situations from getting out of hand, Cops start acting like humans and stop being so trigger happy. The most recent incident in WI especially was escalated by police.  Even after escalating they could have tackled the guy etc, instead they wait until his back is turned and shoot him 7 times. If you can justify the trauma of shooting a father in front of his kids because he didn’t follow deputy dog’s orders you are a monster.

Cops are on edge even more now and you have people that are disobeying their commands, someone is going to get killed and the cops get blamed again.

That person NEVER should have reached in his car like that.  It appears the cops followed him saying something but the person never listened.

tempo_n_groove

I want reform too but the Wisconsin man being shot isn't helping any of it.

mace1229

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

OnWis97 said:

RunIntoTheRain said:

I'm sure @mace1229 will be able to combine assumption and common sense to explain why he needed to be shot. 

This one's actually low-hanging fruit...how do we know he's not going into the car to get a gun?

aren't cops supposed to wait until they SEE a gun before they shoot?

people saying "he shouldn't have resisted" didn't watch the george floyd video. you want to die with a knee on your neck too?

But didn't Floyd resist too? That's why they drug him out of the car to begin with.
I'm not saying what happened was right, I've said before that was one of the worst examples I've seen. But just in response to resisting or not.
And I think its an important detail too, because in nearly every case of black deaths (with just a few exceptions) it escalates from resisting. Again, I'm not saying the cops were all justified, but instead of teaching kids to fight back when a cop has a gun pointed at your face, we should be teaching them how to stay alive and be better about following up on complaints and all forms of abuse, be more transparent on complaints and procedures, even ones that don't result in death. Be better about so that the next time someone has a gun pointed at them they don't think this is my moment to make my stand. That's where we are going to save more lives.
 

i see what you're saying, however, the answer shouldn't be "teach black people how to comply". the answer should be "get better fucking cops". 

this guy didn't fight back. he was walking away. shot in the back. 7 times. 

floyd may have resisted, yes, i can't recall. but then to have 3 guys on you with one guy on your neck is absurd. 

i've seen videos of the cops yelling "stop resisting!" while the guy isn't moving a fucking muscle. I'd be terrified of getting detained too. I could see why some people would choose to run. 

Why can't we do both? Our media literally says every day if you're black, cops are out to kill you. I havent heard lately, but had regularly used the phrase "open season on black men" for a long time.  But the reality is if you cooperate and follow all directions, you have about a 99.999% survival rate. If you resist and run that number drops a little, if you activiely fight back that number drops significantly. But I have never heard once  out of all the celebrities, news, talk shows, etc talk about how to survive.
So why can't we encourage all groups, but especially those targetted more, to respond in a way that all but gaurantee your survival AND demand police reform, better policing, better protocol for follow up with complaints and so on. But instead we have prime time news anchors telling an audience that Rayshard Brooks had no choice but to fight back, steal the taser and use it on the cops because he knew if he was placed in the back seat of a cop car he would be taken out and murdered. 
The complaint system does suck. I've filed a formal complaint before and it was a joke. That needs to improve. If people felt confident that a formal complaint was handled properly, then maybe more would be willing to go along and file a complaint later that was handled correctly and we would see improvement all around.

HughFreakingDillon

mace1229 said:

PJNB said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

OnWis97 said:

RunIntoTheRain said:

I'm sure @mace1229 will be able to combine assumption and common sense to explain why he needed to be shot. 

This one's actually low-hanging fruit...how do we know he's not going into the car to get a gun?

aren't cops supposed to wait until they SEE a gun before they shoot?

people saying "he shouldn't have resisted" didn't watch the george floyd video. you want to die with a knee on your neck too?

But didn't Floyd resist too? That's why they drug him out of the car to begin with.
I'm not saying what happened was right, I've said before that was one of the worst examples I've seen. But just in response to resisting or not.
And I think its an important detail too, because in nearly every case of black deaths (with just a few exceptions) it escalates from resisting. Again, I'm not saying the cops were all justified, but instead of teaching kids to fight back when a cop has a gun pointed at your face, we should be teaching them how to stay alive and be better about following up on complaints and all forms of abuse, be more transparent on complaints and procedures, even ones that don't result in death. Be better about so that the next time someone has a gun pointed at them they don't think this is my moment to make my stand. That's where we are going to save more lives.
 

More victim blaming from you. We are going to save more lives when cops stop killing unarmed people. Plain and simple. 

Its funny how I can repeat twice it wasn't the victims fault and many times the cops are to be blamed, and then be accused of victim blaming because I want to teach kids how to live.

you did, however, you also slid this little nugget in: And I think its an important detail too, because in nearly every case of black deaths (with just a few exceptions) it escalates from resisting. that statement, in my eyes, is saying the cause of the shooting is the resisting. do you understand why black people resist?

also, you are putting the onus of not being shot on the victim. you don't mention police reform (at least not in the last few posts). I think that's where the "victim blaming" accusations may stem from. 

mace1229

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

PJNB said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

OnWis97 said:

RunIntoTheRain said:

I'm sure @mace1229 will be able to combine assumption and common sense to explain why he needed to be shot. 

This one's actually low-hanging fruit...how do we know he's not going into the car to get a gun?

aren't cops supposed to wait until they SEE a gun before they shoot?

people saying "he shouldn't have resisted" didn't watch the george floyd video. you want to die with a knee on your neck too?

But didn't Floyd resist too? That's why they drug him out of the car to begin with.
I'm not saying what happened was right, I've said before that was one of the worst examples I've seen. But just in response to resisting or not.
And I think its an important detail too, because in nearly every case of black deaths (with just a few exceptions) it escalates from resisting. Again, I'm not saying the cops were all justified, but instead of teaching kids to fight back when a cop has a gun pointed at your face, we should be teaching them how to stay alive and be better about following up on complaints and all forms of abuse, be more transparent on complaints and procedures, even ones that don't result in death. Be better about so that the next time someone has a gun pointed at them they don't think this is my moment to make my stand. That's where we are going to save more lives.
 

More victim blaming from you. We are going to save more lives when cops stop killing unarmed people. Plain and simple. 

Its funny how I can repeat twice it wasn't the victims fault and many times the cops are to be blamed, and then be accused of victim blaming because I want to teach kids how to live.

you did, however, you also slid this little nugget in: And I think its an important detail too, because in nearly every case of black deaths (with just a few exceptions) it escalates from resisting. that statement, in my eyes, is saying the cause of the shooting is the resisting. do you understand why black people resist?

also, you are putting the onus of not being shot on the victim. you don't mention police reform (at least not in the last few posts). I think that's where the "victim blaming" accusations may stem from. 

There definitely should be some changes. And I would start with how complaints are handled. I wouldn't stop there.