Police abuse

oftenreading

OnWis97 said:

RunIntoTheRain said:

I'm sure @mace1229 will be able to combine assumption and common sense to explain why he needed to be shot. 

This one's actually low-hanging fruit...how do we know he's not going into the car to get a gun?

This is the default answer whenever police behaviour in these incidents is questioned - “we thought he (or she) might have a gun”. That’s just not good enough as a blanket reason for poor skills in assessment and de-escalation. 

Ledbetterman10

OnWis97 said:

RunIntoTheRain said:

I'm sure @mace1229 will be able to combine assumption and common sense to explain why he needed to be shot. 

This one's actually low-hanging fruit...how do we know he's not going into the car to get a gun?

Yeah but he shouldn't have even been able to make it around his car to open the drivers' side door. Tackle him before he gets there, or club him with a baton or something. 

And yes, people would probably be outraged even in that tackle/baton scenario, but at least it wouldn't have come down to feeling the need to fire your gun. 

Meltdown99

OnWis97 said:

RunIntoTheRain said:

I'm sure @mace1229 will be able to combine assumption and common sense to explain why he needed to be shot. 

This one's actually low-hanging fruit...how do we know he's not going into the car to get a gun?

This.  

Meltdown99

When a cop ask you to stop...then stop.  Answer the questions or don’t ... but walking away back to your vehicle and reaching inside will likely get you shot...

OnWis97

Meltdown99 said:

When a cop ask you to stop...then stop.  Answer the questions or don’t ... but walking away back to your vehicle and reaching inside will likely get you shot...

That said, I think they'd have found a way not to shoot a white guy.

Ledbetterman10

Meltdown99 said:

When a cop ask you to stop...then stop.  Answer the questions or don’t ... but walking away back to your vehicle and reaching inside will likely get you shot...

This is true. And lord knows I'd stop and comply. But it doesn't always happen like that. And for the cops' own sake, they have to do a better job of not letting it escalate to firing their weapons, if possible. Obviously there will be some consequences for that officer. Maybe an arrest (like the bullshit arrest that happened to the St. Louis cops), probably a firing, or hell, maybe rioters will track them down and burn down their houses. That's the risk the cops run by allowing things to escalate. 

DewieCox

Maybe those St Louis cops shouldn’t have been arrested but they also should be stripped of their badges. That was hilariously atrocious police work. That anyone would use that case/video to condone a police shooting is laughable.


Im not even considering the possibility of prejudice here. Yes, they’re dealing with criminals but they’re putting forth about  the absolute minimum effort to head off these incidents. 

Ledbetterman10

DewieCox said:

Maybe those St Louis cops shouldn’t have been arrested but they also should be stripped of their badges. That was hilariously atrocious police work. That anyone would use that case/video to condone a police shooting is laughable.

I agree. Shouldn't have been arrested. But yeah, they failed so epically in doing their job that should be fired. If two of you can't prevent one guy from stealing your taser, then you're not cut out for policing. 

I don't think anyone uses that incident to "condone" police shooting. But it was justified to shoot once the guy turned with the taser. It's just unfortunate that the cops' initial failure to subdue the suspect led to that scenario even being possible. They'll be acquitted, and St. Louis will be set ablaze because of it. 

gimmesometruth27

it is like that scene in casino when the cops shot the member of nicky's crew because they thought his hero sandwich was a gun. 

except in this case, and most others, the african american victims have nothing in their hands and are always allegedly "going to get a gun". which again, most of them do not have at the scene.

hedonist

Some of you are vilifying a member based on what their anticipated response might be?

Not sure I’ve seen this level of low here before.

DewieCox

Ledbetterman10 said:

DewieCox said:

Maybe those St Louis cops shouldn’t have been arrested but they also should be stripped of their badges. That was hilariously atrocious police work. That anyone would use that case/video to condone a police shooting is laughable.

I agree. Shouldn't have been arrested. But yeah, they failed so epically in doing their job that should be fired. If two of you can't prevent one guy from stealing your taser, then you're not cut out for policing. 

I don't think anyone uses that incident to "condone" police shooting. But it was justified to shoot once the guy turned with the taser. It's just unfortunate that the cops' initial failure to subdue the suspect led to that scenario even being possible. They'll be acquitted, and St. Louis will be set ablaze because of it. 

If it’s their ineptitude that ultimately leads to the shooting, then where does their culpability end?

Ledbetterman10

DewieCox said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

DewieCox said:

Maybe those St Louis cops shouldn’t have been arrested but they also should be stripped of their badges. That was hilariously atrocious police work. That anyone would use that case/video to condone a police shooting is laughable.

I agree. Shouldn't have been arrested. But yeah, they failed so epically in doing their job that should be fired. If two of you can't prevent one guy from stealing your taser, then you're not cut out for policing. 

I don't think anyone uses that incident to "condone" police shooting. But it was justified to shoot once the guy turned with the taser. It's just unfortunate that the cops' initial failure to subdue the suspect led to that scenario even being possible. They'll be acquitted, and St. Louis will be set ablaze because of it. 

If it’s their ineptitude that ultimately leads to the shooting, then where does their culpability end?

Well it did start with the suspect resisting arrest and becoming violent. So the culpability starts with him. It'd be nice if they were able to subdue him without him getting the taser. But his initial actions set in motion what got him killed. 

gimmesometruth27

Ledbetterman10 said:

DewieCox said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

DewieCox said:

Maybe those St Louis cops shouldn’t have been arrested but they also should be stripped of their badges. That was hilariously atrocious police work. That anyone would use that case/video to condone a police shooting is laughable.

I agree. Shouldn't have been arrested. But yeah, they failed so epically in doing their job that should be fired. If two of you can't prevent one guy from stealing your taser, then you're not cut out for policing. 

I don't think anyone uses that incident to "condone" police shooting. But it was justified to shoot once the guy turned with the taser. It's just unfortunate that the cops' initial failure to subdue the suspect led to that scenario even being possible. They'll be acquitted, and St. Louis will be set ablaze because of it. 

If it’s their ineptitude that ultimately leads to the shooting, then where does their culpability end?

Well it did start with the suspect resisting arrest and becoming violent. So the culpability starts with him. It'd be nice if they were able to subdue him without him getting the taser. But his initial actions set in motion what got him killed. 

he was breaking up a fight. which is arguably the job of the police. he should have just let them fight then, right?

also, has he died? i heard he was in ICU expected to survive.

Ledbetterman10

gimmesometruth27 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

DewieCox said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

DewieCox said:

Maybe those St Louis cops shouldn’t have been arrested but they also should be stripped of their badges. That was hilariously atrocious police work. That anyone would use that case/video to condone a police shooting is laughable.

I agree. Shouldn't have been arrested. But yeah, they failed so epically in doing their job that should be fired. If two of you can't prevent one guy from stealing your taser, then you're not cut out for policing. 

I don't think anyone uses that incident to "condone" police shooting. But it was justified to shoot once the guy turned with the taser. It's just unfortunate that the cops' initial failure to subdue the suspect led to that scenario even being possible. They'll be acquitted, and St. Louis will be set ablaze because of it. 

If it’s their ineptitude that ultimately leads to the shooting, then where does their culpability end?

Well it did start with the suspect resisting arrest and becoming violent. So the culpability starts with him. It'd be nice if they were able to subdue him without him getting the taser. But his initial actions set in motion what got him killed. 

he was breaking up a fight. which is arguably the job of the police. he should have just let them fight then, right?

also, has he died? i heard he was in ICU expected to survive.

We weren't talking about that. We were talking about Rayshard Brooks in St. Louis from June. 

gimmesometruth27

Ledbetterman10 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

DewieCox said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

DewieCox said:

Maybe those St Louis cops shouldn’t have been arrested but they also should be stripped of their badges. That was hilariously atrocious police work. That anyone would use that case/video to condone a police shooting is laughable.

I agree. Shouldn't have been arrested. But yeah, they failed so epically in doing their job that should be fired. If two of you can't prevent one guy from stealing your taser, then you're not cut out for policing. 

I don't think anyone uses that incident to "condone" police shooting. But it was justified to shoot once the guy turned with the taser. It's just unfortunate that the cops' initial failure to subdue the suspect led to that scenario even being possible. They'll be acquitted, and St. Louis will be set ablaze because of it. 

If it’s their ineptitude that ultimately leads to the shooting, then where does their culpability end?

Well it did start with the suspect resisting arrest and becoming violent. So the culpability starts with him. It'd be nice if they were able to subdue him without him getting the taser. But his initial actions set in motion what got him killed. 

he was breaking up a fight. which is arguably the job of the police. he should have just let them fight then, right?

also, has he died? i heard he was in ICU expected to survive.

We weren't talking about that. We were talking about Rayshard Brooks in St. Louis from June. 

thanks for clarifying. my bad.

there are just too many instances to keep them all straight.

DewieCox

Ledbetterman10 said:

DewieCox said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

DewieCox said:

Maybe those St Louis cops shouldn’t have been arrested but they also should be stripped of their badges. That was hilariously atrocious police work. That anyone would use that case/video to condone a police shooting is laughable.

I agree. Shouldn't have been arrested. But yeah, they failed so epically in doing their job that should be fired. If two of you can't prevent one guy from stealing your taser, then you're not cut out for policing. 

I don't think anyone uses that incident to "condone" police shooting. But it was justified to shoot once the guy turned with the taser. It's just unfortunate that the cops' initial failure to subdue the suspect led to that scenario even being possible. They'll be acquitted, and St. Louis will be set ablaze because of it. 

If it’s their ineptitude that ultimately leads to the shooting, then where does their culpability end?

Well it did start with the suspect resisting arrest and becoming violent. So the culpability starts with him. It'd be nice if they were able to subdue him without him getting the taser. But his initial actions set in motion what got him killed. 

Sorta, but not really. Cops dealing with a known unpredictable offender let their guard down and allowed it to escalate. It’s not like some crazy dude snuck up on them.

Merkin Baller

https://twitter.com/popehat/status/1297911937087373312?s=21

Ledbetterman10

DewieCox said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

DewieCox said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

DewieCox said:

Maybe those St Louis cops shouldn’t have been arrested but they also should be stripped of their badges. That was hilariously atrocious police work. That anyone would use that case/video to condone a police shooting is laughable.

I agree. Shouldn't have been arrested. But yeah, they failed so epically in doing their job that should be fired. If two of you can't prevent one guy from stealing your taser, then you're not cut out for policing. 

I don't think anyone uses that incident to "condone" police shooting. But it was justified to shoot once the guy turned with the taser. It's just unfortunate that the cops' initial failure to subdue the suspect led to that scenario even being possible. They'll be acquitted, and St. Louis will be set ablaze because of it. 

If it’s their ineptitude that ultimately leads to the shooting, then where does their culpability end?

Well it did start with the suspect resisting arrest and becoming violent. So the culpability starts with him. It'd be nice if they were able to subdue him without him getting the taser. But his initial actions set in motion what got him killed. 

Sorta, but not really. Cops dealing with a known unpredictable offender let their guard down and allowed it to escalate. It’s not like some crazy dude snuck up on them.

Well he didn't literally sneak up on them. But if you watch the entire video prior to the shooting, Brooks was cooperative and even charming while speaking to the officers for like a half-hour, trying to talk his way out of it. But the moment they said that he was under arrest, he became violent, which did seem unpredictable given his demeanor in the lead-up. But again, even though he went from cooperative to violent in a moment's notice, in a perfect world, they wouldn't have allowed him to steal the taser. 

mace1229

RunIntoTheRain said:

I'm sure @mace1229 will be able to combine assumption and common sense to explain why he needed to be shot. 

Not sure if you're referencing my comments that shooting to injure a knife wielding man about to attack innocent people is a bad idea, or correcting others that no one has been run off a road for a broken tail light. But I guess facts and common sense is looked down upon here. Unless there was a gun visible on the front seat that he was reaching for, and there's no reason to believe there was one. no shots should have been fired. Walking away and entering a car does not justify lethal force. 

mace1229

Ledbetterman10 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

DewieCox said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

DewieCox said:

Maybe those St Louis cops shouldn’t have been arrested but they also should be stripped of their badges. That was hilariously atrocious police work. That anyone would use that case/video to condone a police shooting is laughable.

I agree. Shouldn't have been arrested. But yeah, they failed so epically in doing their job that should be fired. If two of you can't prevent one guy from stealing your taser, then you're not cut out for policing. 

I don't think anyone uses that incident to "condone" police shooting. But it was justified to shoot once the guy turned with the taser. It's just unfortunate that the cops' initial failure to subdue the suspect led to that scenario even being possible. They'll be acquitted, and St. Louis will be set ablaze because of it. 

If it’s their ineptitude that ultimately leads to the shooting, then where does their culpability end?

Well it did start with the suspect resisting arrest and becoming violent. So the culpability starts with him. It'd be nice if they were able to subdue him without him getting the taser. But his initial actions set in motion what got him killed. 

he was breaking up a fight. which is arguably the job of the police. he should have just let them fight then, right?

also, has he died? i heard he was in ICU expected to survive.

We weren't talking about that. We were talking about Rayshard Brooks in St. Louis from June. 

I was confused at first too because I'm pretty sure Brooks was in Atlanta, not St Luis. I was trying to think what happened in St Luis.
Brooks had like a foot over the cops, he was a big dude. Not surprising they struggled controlling him. You can't require all cops to be 6' 5" and bench 350 lbs, they are going to face people bigger and stronger than them