The coronavirus

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  • Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,598
    I'm betting there is a lot of crossover between people who believe the right to not wear a mask is guaranteed by the constitution and who were thrown off by the Declaration of Independence a few years back:


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  • Posts: 6,964
    This "it's my right" attitude reminds me of being in third grade at the playground and some kid says "it's a free country and I'll do what I want."  It's just so childish.  There's no valid reason these people refuse to wear a mask except to be ass holes and make life difficult.  If everyone wears a mask for a month, the virus essentially goes away.  But nope.  Some people need to exercise their right to keep spreading it.  It's so ridiculous.
  • St. Paul, MN Posts: 5,610
    This seems like the right time for me to kick off the crusade against No Shirt No Shoes No Service I’ve been thinking about for a while.
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  • Posts: 9,478
    OnWis97 said:
    This seems like the right time for me to kick off the crusade against No Shirt No Shoes No Service I’ve been thinking about for a while.
    My 2 year old would like to have a word with you and add No Underwear to that list. The ultimate freedom.
  • Posts: 9,478
  • St. Paul, MN Posts: 5,610
    dignin said:

    This might be the best possible news not related to a cure/vaccine.  I can't prove it but I've always believed that if masks helped the wearer, they'd be much more likely to be used.
    1995 Milwaukee     1998 Alpine, Alpine     2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston     2004 Boston, Boston     2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)     2011 Alpine, Alpine     
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  • Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,236
    dignin said:
    My 2 year old would like to have a word with you and add No Underwear to that list. The ultimate freedom.
    You know how things go especially here in S Florida * things need to breathe*.

    Peace
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  • Posts: 6,499
    edited July 2020
    OnWis97 said:

    This might be the best possible news not related to a cure/vaccine.  I can't prove it but I've always believed that if masks helped the wearer, they'd be much more likely to be used.
    Great news, hopefully this will encourage those “on the fence” on wearing a mask.  
  • None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    Russia claims to have a vaccine ready to go...
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • Posts: 2,339

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  • Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    I hadn't been paying attention closely enough to realize that, in at least some cases, students are returning to campus to live in dorms even when there are no in-person classes, but that seems to be the case at McGill at least, where are few hundred American students will soon be living. I assume it's because they hope to be moving toward in person classes by the end of the year. Some of the parents seem both anxious and relieved that their kids will be in Canada.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/school-students-return-from-united-states-1.5656393

    Anxiety high as Canadian schools prepare for students from COVID-ravaged U.S.

    Post-secondary students from the pandemic-riven United States are getting ready to go back to school in Canada — a rite of passage that's causing more anxiety than usual for parents and front-line university workers alike in the age of COVID-19. 

    At Montreal's McGill University, some employees are growing worried as the school prepares to welcome foreign students into on-campus residences — even those whose courses are entirely online.

    Parents, too, are wrestling with new and unfamiliar concerns: the risk of on-campus infection, the fact border restrictions make in-person visits impossible and the prospect of their kids facing anti-American backlash.

    One McGill employee, who spoke to The Canadian Press on condition of anonymity for fear of repercussions at work, said there is concern among the rank and file about another "fiasco" like the outbreak at Quebec's long-term care homes, which accounted for 80 per cent of the highest provincial total of COVID-19 deaths in Canada.

    "I am in the office with, like, four colleagues and we're all, 'What's going to happen?' In America, it's blowing up there like crazy, and people are supposed to be coming back in seven weeks," said the employee, who described those colleagues as front-line workers — many in their 50s or 60s, with elderly parents at home — who are typically in close contact with students.

    "There are a lot of family concerns related to health that are connected with this. And, you know, maybe I wouldn't be thinking about these things if I hadn't seen America erupt into such a mess."

    Others, however, have faith the institution can keep students and staff safe. 

    "Part of our mandate is to not only educate but nurture and protect these young adults," said Franco Taddeo, who's worked in McGill's library system since the 1990s. "Honestly, as a father and Canadian, I would much rather have these students here for their safety and well-being than being in present-day America."

    The novel coronavirus has infected more than 3.6 million people and killed 140,000 in the U.S., compared with 109,000 cases and 8,800 deaths in Canada. And it's not the only thing giving U.S. parents sleepless nights.

    They're well aware of reports of Americans — accused of flouting travel restrictions — facing verbal abuse in Canada. 

    'My life is waiting for me there'

    One mother, a dual citizen who heard of U.S. vehicles being vandalized, bought a looseleaf-sized magnet to attach to her car door that reads, "We are Canadian citizens and have completed our 14-day quarantine." 

    Since students can complete course work online, one might wonder — why send them at all? 

    "We need to trust that she'll make decisions to keep herself safe, either there or here," said one mother, whose daughter is going into her second year at McGill and who fears for her if her name is made public. The parents wrestled with whether to let her go. 

    "I kept saying to her, 'I would prefer you stay home and wait.' And she was like, 'But my life is waiting for me there.' So we're letting her make the choice." 

    Quarantining in residence

    In a statement, McGill would say only that fall courses will be offered "primarily through remote delivery platforms," but that they are developing on-campus student life and learning activities "which will respect careful safety protocols."

    "We will continue to place the health and safety of our community first by working closely with public health authorities."

    At the University of Calgary, some international students have spent the summer in residence to avoid going back to countries where the virus is rampant, or where travel restrictions have made going home impossible, said Susan Barker, the vice-provost in charge of student experience.

    New arrivals will quarantine in residence, while some who lack living arrangements will be sequestered at local hotels, Barker said. Students from the U.S. are not being treated differently than those from elsewhere, she added. 

    "Our values as an institution are about fairness and equity," Barker said. "We haven't had to make decisions that give students from somewhere preferential treatment over another." 

    One quarter of U of T students from abroad

    Some U.S. parents are taking comfort in knowing their children are escaping the U.S., where the newly resurgent virus is shattering daily records for new cases and deaths — fuelled in part by partisan divisions over face masks, reopening businesses and easing physical distancing requirements.

    "It is completely bittersweet," said the father of a second-year McGill student from a hard-hit southern state, who is also worried his child might be targeted. 

    The good news, he said, is that his daughter "has made a connection, made a life and found a place in a culture and country that has some sense of the common good."

    At the University of Toronto, where 23,000 international students comprised nearly a quarter of the school's 93,000-strong student body last year, a detailed and comprehensive plan is in motion to ensure the safety of all students, said Joe Wong, the school's vice-provost and associate vice-president, international student experience. 

    Last year, U of T had 722 undergraduates and 514 graduate students from the U.S., and so far 268 new American students have accepted offers of admission, he said.

    "All three levels of government are coordinating right now — they really are setting the bar high in terms of what is a safe and secure corridor for students and universities across the country," Wong said. 

    "I can't speak for others, but I know that they're all working very hard to it, and the plan that we put together at U of T … goes above and beyond what most people expected." 

    Students from outside Canada will be quarantined on campus for 14 days, regardless of whether they are planning to live on campus or not, Wong said. Those quarantines will include daily check-ins with staff, meals delivered to their rooms and "co-curricular" programming while students ride out the waiting period.

    "When they come out the other side of the quarantine, if they are healthy, then they will join the rest of the students who are on campus — of course, physically distanced and according to all the health authority's regulations," he said.

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  • Posts: 7,870
    nicknyr15 said:
    It’s in the middle somewhere. Look harder. 


    I did, thanks for the heads up. Looks like those friends don’t have much of a case.


    ”...under the Constitution, individuals have rights in quarantine and isolation conditions. Under the 5th and 14th Amendment’s rights of Due Process and Equal Protection, public health regulations used to impose such conditions can’t be “arbitrary, oppressive and unreasonable.”

    https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/constitutional-powers-and-issues-during-a-quarantine-situation


    in a pandemic, it would be a challenge IMO that mask requirements are any more arbitrary, oppressive and unreasonable than...
    wearing a seat belt. But a seat belt only protects the user. Mask wearing protects everyone within 10 feet.



    also
     Under the U.S. Constitution’s 10th Amendment and U.S. Supreme Court decisions over nearly 200 years, state governments have the primary authority to control the spread of dangerous diseases within their jurisdictions. The 10th Amendment, which gives states all powers not specifically given to the federal government, allows them the authority to take public health emergency actions, such as setting quarantines and business restrictions.”

    https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/publications/youraba/2020/youraba-april-2020/law-guides-legal-approach-to-pandemic/

  • Posts: 17,889
    I hadn't been paying attention closely enough to realize that, in at least some cases, students are returning to campus to live in dorms even when there are no in-person classes, 
    Harvard is doing this. All first year students are to live on campus in the fall even though all classes will be remote.
    The strange(r) part is assuming no return to normalcy for spring semester, they are kicking those first year kids out and sending them home and having seniors move in for the spring semester so they can have their senior year experience.
    That decision making process kind of boggles the mind.
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  • Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    Poncier said:
    Harvard is doing this. All first year students are to live on campus in the fall even though all classes will be remote.
    The strange(r) part is assuming no return to normalcy for spring semester, they are kicking those first year kids out and sending them home and having seniors move in for the spring semester so they can have their senior year experience.
    That decision making process kind of boggles the mind.

    I know it's a very complex area and when you dig down into it, there are many factors of which we are not considering. These include things like students' homes not having reliable internet access, no private (or safe) space in which to join online classes/do exams/do assignments, extreme time zone difference for international students who are trying to continue their studies from Africa or Asia, etc. Given the need to reduce density, I can see some sense in rotating being on campus and off, though that provides a whole other set of problems. 
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  • Posts: 42,192
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  • Posts: 17,889
    The decision to strive for herd immunity in Sweden seems to have thrown the country into a sort of spiritual chaos.
    This weekend we rock Portland
  • New Jersey Posts: 29,116
    Yikes!
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    mcgruff10 said:
    Lots of my right leaning friends tell me it is their constitutional right not to wear a mask.  Please be serious and defend them.  Tell me where in the constitution this is.  

    I hate it that so many people have politicized the pandemic in that way.  Just ridiculous.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Posts: 49,594
    Poncier said:
    The decision to strive for herd immunity in Sweden seems to have thrown the country into a sort of spiritual chaos.
    Oh my goodness. I see what you have done there. 
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  • Posts: 12,912
    Poncier said:
    The decision to strive for herd immunity in Sweden seems to have thrown the country into a sort of spiritual chaos.
    now that is some classic phrasing there.  A++
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