Black Lives Matter

texasistheSTEVEN · June 2020

I don't buy the line of "he's a good dude" when saying something a bit stupid/ignorant. I have close mates who say silly things and I pull them up on it and I would hope vice-versa. Just because someone has a good rep it doesn't mean they are untouchable.
And that should go for EVERYONE no matter how caring, thoughtful, and decent they are.

hedonist · June 2020

Some of this is ridiculous. Educate by embarrassing, no exceptions. Because belittling someone really opens that door to learning, to another’s view.

If you feel someone doesn’t “get it”, how is berating them going to help? Would you want to try to learn that way?

dankind · June 2020

hedonist said:

Some of this is ridiculous. Educate by embarrassing, no exceptions. Because belittling someone really opens that door to learning, to another’s view.

If you feel someone doesn’t “get it”, how is berating them going to help? Would you want to try to learn that way?

I don't know that I'd necessarily want to learn that way. But I will say that the lessons I've learned from shame have likely stuck with me more than lessons learned otherwise. A little empathy goes a long way, though. None of that to be found on AMT; that's for damn sure.

lastexitlondon · June 2020

I just spoke with my 18 year old daughter and my words now mean something i didnt even understand. I dont need to prove to anyone that i have love and feel the same about everyone in the world. I was and am genuinely caring for every person regardless of anything. And i still see all the death and loss as horrific. So to be honest i would never knowingly post any thing to offend anyone. As far as race my view is not even in question. I love all people im a lover not a fighter so i will leave this thread to carry on the good work.

texasistheSTEVEN · June 2020

hedonist said:

Some of this is ridiculous. Educate by embarrassing, no exceptions. Because belittling someone really opens that door to learning, to another’s view.

If you feel someone doesn’t “get it”, how is berating them going to help? Would you want to try to learn that way?

I really don't think anything said in this thread has been that bad.
At this point, as an adult, if you don't understand why "All lives matter" is incredibly offensive then a little bit of embarrassment to have that point hammered home can not hurt. I apologised to the guy as I think he understands he had made a mistake and thats cool and we should move on.
The point still stands that you can be Mother Theresa, but if you say something stupid, expect to be pulled for it.

brianlux · June 2020

I'll leave this thread to those enlightened saints here who never made an error or misunderstood a concept without feeling like being bullied, embarrassed or derided with the only proper way to learn a lesson. Kindness and intelligent instruction just don't seem to fit your self-righteous styles. Good luck with that making a positive change in the world.

drakeheuer14 · June 2020

My Self-righteous style? Come on. You can’t understand how after now a week+ of very well covered efforts on the BLM movement (even though it’s now existed for much longer) and seeing responses such as all lives matter continuing to be pushed out is a direct effort to diminish what is trying to be accomplished is exhausting? Nothing said in this thread in response to it is out of line. The only thing I will apologize for is not having patience for seeing all lives matter posted again. Im glad lastexit reached out to their daughter to learn.

Happy Monday. Black lives matter. It’s really too bad this was moved to AMT. Talk about a thread that should be front and center.

tbergs · June 2020

brianlux said:

I'll leave this thread to those enlightened saints here who never made an error or misunderstood a concept without feeling like being bullied, embarrassed or derided with the only proper way to learn a lesson. Kindness and intelligent instruction just don't seem to fit your self-righteous styles. Good luck with that making a positive change in the world.

That's a very eloquent way to make it sound like those who don't always use tact are assholes. I'm sorry, but there are certain phrases and ways of thinking that do need to be called out at this juncture in time. You know what being ignorant about the statement "All Lives Matters" means in response to "Black Lives Matter"? That you are most likely a white person, even more likely that you are a white male, who does not understand what it means to be black because you don't even come close to living in the same stratosphere of inequality and injustice. As the oppressors, it is our job to educate ourselves and address the racial disparity that we continue to perpetuate due to lack of true, deep felt caring for the change and equality needed. We live in power so therefore it is never an urgent need to us. We complain about a building burning and sit atop our position of privilege telling others that's not going to help the situation, yet we do nothing, but flap our mouths for a few weeks and then move on to the next social justice cause that has taken over social media. You know the next big issue is just right around the corner and then everyone can make that their new hashtag. This is the world we live in.

I'll admit, I was an ignorant idiot years ago when this phrase first started being used, but I figured it out and came to recognize it's importance. I also didn't really understand the kneeling during the anthem at first, but that's because I am white and come from privilege, even if that privilege has nothing to do with wealth, there is a difference for just being born white. How many years of black people being killed at the hands of the police do we need to see before people get it? Apparently more because there are still millions of white people making their "white lives matter" or "blue lives matters" announcements to the world, like anyone has ever said or shown their lives don't matter. They have all the power and control and should be using it to make it seem like "all lives matter".

Fuck, I'm done. I stepped away from this site Friday because I was fed up. I'm pissed at the police for how they have ruined and tainted their roles in the community and I'm pissed that it has come to chants of disband the police, but people are tired of this cycle of inaction.

Everyone take care of themselves and use your voice to push for change in any way that you can. Maybe this will be a point in time we can look back on in 20 years and see as a time when we finally got it.

mace1229 · June 2020

Here’s why I don’t see an issue with all lives matter. After Michael Brown cops were targeted, ambushed and killed. Supporters of police started saying blue lives matter. Other non-black groups have also been targeted. People were, and still are, placing signs in their window that read “black owned business” so that rioters and looters would skip over that place.
I agree it is the minority of protestors, but you still didn’t have to watch much of the news to see mobs of violence.

So to me when I hear “all lives matter” it’s a cry to stop all the violence. Protesting black violence by beating and sometimes killing innocent others because of their skin color or job will never be the right way to protest.

when I hear “all lives matter” I interpret that as saying don’t solve black violence with random blue or white violence, because that’s when it started.

And it doesn’t help their cause, people won’t forget George Floyd faster than when they start seeing pictures of cops who were murdered during a protest.

cincybearcat · June 2020

hedonist said:

Some of this is ridiculous. Educate by embarrassing, no exceptions. Because belittling someone really opens that door to learning, to another’s view.

If you feel someone doesn’t “get it”, how is berating them going to help? Would you want to try to learn that way?

It doesn’t. But just like the people that like to carry guns around it makes them feel superior. They do it for themselves, not for any cause.

brianlux · June 2020

tbergs said:

brianlux said:

I'll leave this thread to those enlightened saints here who never made an error or misunderstood a concept without feeling like being bullied, embarrassed or derided with the only proper way to learn a lesson. Kindness and intelligent instruction just don't seem to fit your self-righteous styles. Good luck with that making a positive change in the world.

That's a very eloquent way to make it sound like those who don't always use tact are assholes. I'm sorry, but there are certain phrases and ways of thinking that do need to be called out at this juncture in time. You know what being ignorant about the statement "All Lives Matters" means in response to "Black Lives Matter"? That you are most likely a white person, even more likely that you are a white male, who does not understand what it means to be black because you don't even come close to living in the same stratosphere of inequality and injustice. As the oppressors, it is our job to educate ourselves and address the racial disparity that we continue to perpetuate due to lack of true, deep felt caring for the change and equality needed. We live in power so therefore it is never an urgent need to us. We complain about a building burning and sit atop our position of privilege telling others that's not going to help the situation, yet we do nothing, but flap our mouths for a few weeks and then move on to the next social justice cause that has taken over social media. You know the next big issue is just right around the corner and then everyone can make that their new hashtag. This is the world we live in.

I'll admit, I was an ignorant idiot years ago when this phrase first started being used, but I figured it out and came to recognize it's importance. I also didn't really understand the kneeling during the anthem at first, but that's because I am white and come from privilege, even if that privilege has nothing to do with wealth, there is a difference for just being born white. How many years of black people being killed at the hands of the police do we need to see before people get it? Apparently more because there are still millions of white people making their "white lives matter" or "blue lives matters" announcements to the world, like anyone has ever said or shown their lives don't matter. They have all the power and control and should be using it to make it seem like "all lives matter".

Fuck, I'm done. I stepped away from this site Friday because I was fed up. I'm pissed at the police for how they have ruined and tainted their roles in the community and I'm pissed that it has come to chants of disband the police, but people are tired of this cycle of inaction.

Everyone take care of themselves and use your voice to push for change in any way that you can. Maybe this will be a point in time we can look back on in 20 years and see as a when we finally got it.

OK, so we are pissed off and angry at the abuse toward blacks (anyone with a heart would be).. So are we going to vent that anger at someone here who said something that was well intentioned even though, admittedly, uninformed about the concept of Black Lives Matter? That's how some hope to teach someone else something they may not have seen clearly? That's how we want to make the world better?

Educate, yes. But by berating, by coming across as self-righteous? I don't think it works that way. If someone is doing something that is intentionally harmful or provocative, yeah, we might be able to excuse self-righteous anger and strong language. But if someone makes a sincere mistake and we chew their ass out over it- that's going to be helpful? I don't think so.

So then teach me. What am I missing?

drakeheuer14 · June 2020

mace1229 said:

So to me when I hear “all lives matter” it’s a cry to stop all the violence. Protesting black violence by beating and sometimes killing innocent others because of their skin color or job will never be the right way to protest.

when I hear “all lives matter” I interpret that as saying don’t solve black violence with random blue or white violence, because that’s when it started.

I think it’s far-fetched to believe that anyone saying all lives matter means it under those terms. Maybe less than 1%.

I don’t think violence is the answer. It’s unfortunate that cops do.

FiveBelow · June 2020

drakeheuer14 said:

mace1229 said:

So to me when I hear “all lives matter” it’s a cry to stop all the violence. Protesting black violence by beating and sometimes killing innocent others because of their skin color or job will never be the right way to protest.

when I hear “all lives matter” I interpret that as saying don’t solve black violence with random blue or white violence, because that’s when it started.

I think it’s far-fetched to believe that anyone saying all lives matter means it under those terms. Maybe less than 1%.

I don’t think violence is the answer. It’s unfortunate that cops do.

What percentage would you assign for this statement?

tbergs · June 2020

cincybearcat said:

hedonist said:

Some of this is ridiculous. Educate by embarrassing, no exceptions. Because belittling someone really opens that door to learning, to another’s view.

If you feel someone doesn’t “get it”, how is berating them going to help? Would you want to try to learn that way?

It doesn’t. But just like the people that like to carry guns around it makes them feel superior. They do it for themselves, not for any cause.

No, it's just maddening to see the level of ignorance and privilege shine through. I wonder if this is what it was like when whites had to learn to stop saying the N word or stop calling black people racial slurs in general? God forbid we be straight forward about something that should be obvious after years of being front and center every time a black person is killed by the police. This isn't 1965, I don't have to live in the area and read the local paper or listen to a radio to hear world news. It's out there and all over and if you don't understand it, hey look, you're typing on a computer that can search millions of things in a second. Maybe take a minute and Google that phrase you don't quite get. It's not like this is an in-person conversation where it would be rude for me to take a minute and look at my phone.

brianlux · June 2020

tino_11 said:

This is so right on. I love how this little girl's sign instructs rather than berates. I guess some people seem to think it is better to chew out someone's ass instead of instruct in a kindly manner. I want to ask them, "Which method do you think is more effective?"

mace1229 · June 2020

drakeheuer14 said:

mace1229 said:

So to me when I hear “all lives matter” it’s a cry to stop all the violence. Protesting black violence by beating and sometimes killing innocent others because of their skin color or job will never be the right way to protest.

when I hear “all lives matter” I interpret that as saying don’t solve black violence with random blue or white violence, because that’s when it started.

I think it’s far-fetched to believe that anyone saying all lives matter means it under those terms. Maybe less than 1%.

I don’t think violence is the answer. It’s unfortunate that cops do.

I also think it’s far fetched to lump all cops together say they think violence is the answer.

That’s when I remember that phrase first being used, I don’t see it being that far fetched at all.

drakeheuer14 · June 2020

brianlux said:

tbergs said:

brianlux said:

I'll leave this thread to those enlightened saints here who never made an error or misunderstood a concept without feeling like being bullied, embarrassed or derided with the only proper way to learn a lesson. Kindness and intelligent instruction just don't seem to fit your self-righteous styles. Good luck with that making a positive change in the world.

That's a very eloquent way to make it sound like those who don't always use tact are assholes. I'm sorry, but there are certain phrases and ways of thinking that do need to be called out at this juncture in time. You know what being ignorant about the statement "All Lives Matters" means in response to "Black Lives Matter"? That you are most likely a white person, even more likely that you are a white male, who does not understand what it means to be black because you don't even come close to living in the same stratosphere of inequality and injustice. As the oppressors, it is our job to educate ourselves and address the racial disparity that we continue to perpetuate due to lack of true, deep felt caring for the change and equality needed. We live in power so therefore it is never an urgent need to us. We complain about a building burning and sit atop our position of privilege telling others that's not going to help the situation, yet we do nothing, but flap our mouths for a few weeks and then move on to the next social justice cause that has taken over social media. You know the next big issue is just right around the corner and then everyone can make that their new hashtag. This is the world we live in.

I'll admit, I was an ignorant idiot years ago when this phrase first started being used, but I figured it out and came to recognize it's importance. I also didn't really understand the kneeling during the anthem at first, but that's because I am white and come from privilege, even if that privilege has nothing to do with wealth, there is a difference for just being born white. How many years of black people being killed at the hands of the police do we need to see before people get it? Apparently more because there are still millions of white people making their "white lives matter" or "blue lives matters" announcements to the world, like anyone has ever said or shown their lives don't matter. They have all the power and control and should be using it to make it seem like "all lives matter".

Fuck, I'm done. I stepped away from this site Friday because I was fed up. I'm pissed at the police for how they have ruined and tainted their roles in the community and I'm pissed that it has come to chants of disband the police, but people are tired of this cycle of inaction.

Everyone take care of themselves and use your voice to push for change in any way that you can. Maybe this will be a point in time we can look back on in 20 years and see as a when we finally got it.

OK, so we are pissed off and angry at the abuse toward blacks (anyone with a heart would be).. So are we going to vent that anger at someone here who said something that was well intentioned even though, admittedly, uninformed about the concept of Black Lives Matter? That's how some hope to teach someone else something they may not have seen clearly? That's how we want to make the world better?

Educate, yes. But by berating, by coming across as self-righteous? I don't think it works that way. If someone is doing something that is intentionally harmful or provocative, yeah, we might be able to excuse self-righteous anger and strong language. But if someone makes a sincere mistake and we chew their ass out over it- that's going to be helpful? I don't think so.

So then teach me. What am I missing?

My initial response was not extreme in any way. I think it was appropriate given the current climate. You make it seem as though I just continued to shit on this individual and hating him and then call me self-righteous AND start a thread in response to it? Whose response was over the top you think? I don’t know him (or you), I don’t hate him (or you), but I did hate the one response he chose to this thread initially. Again, I am glad he sought out more information.

rgambs · June 2020

mace1229 said:

Here’s why I don’t see an issue with all lives matter. After Michael Brown cops were targeted, ambushed and killed. Supporters of police started saying blue lives matter. Other non-black groups have also been targeted. People were, and still are, placing signs in their window that read “black owned business” so that rioters and looters would skip over that place.
I agree it is the minority of protestors, but you still didn’t have to watch much of the news to see mobs of violence.

So to me when I hear “all lives matter” it’s a cry to stop all the violence. Protesting black violence by beating and sometimes killing innocent others because of their skin color or job will never be the right way to protest.

when I hear “all lives matter” I interpret that as saying don’t solve black violence with random blue or white violence, because that’s when it started.

And it doesn’t help their cause, people won’t forget George Floyd faster than when they start seeing pictures of cops who were murdered during a protest.

That's a stretch. I don't know why you feel the need to redefine something on other people's behalf so you can be comfortable with it. Is it just to be contrary? Are you trying to make peace with your own reaction to BLM, or defend the position held by friends and/or family?
I don't get why exactly, but it's definitely unsavory.

drakeheuer14 · June 2020

brianlux said:

tino_11 said:

This is so right on. I love how this little girl's sign instructs rather than berates. I guess some people seem to think it is better to chew out someone's ass instead of instruct in a kindly manner. I want to ask them, "Which method do you think is more effective?"

IT is a great sign. So is the post from mrs. Vedder that I posted. But apparently that was berating.

mace1229 · June 2020

rgambs said:

mace1229 said:

Here’s why I don’t see an issue with all lives matter. After Michael Brown cops were targeted, ambushed and killed. Supporters of police started saying blue lives matter. Other non-black groups have also been targeted. People were, and still are, placing signs in their window that read “black owned business” so that rioters and looters would skip over that place.
I agree it is the minority of protestors, but you still didn’t have to watch much of the news to see mobs of violence.

So to me when I hear “all lives matter” it’s a cry to stop all the violence. Protesting black violence by beating and sometimes killing innocent others because of their skin color or job will never be the right way to protest.

when I hear “all lives matter” I interpret that as saying don’t solve black violence with random blue or white violence, because that’s when it started.

And it doesn’t help their cause, people won’t forget George Floyd faster than when they start seeing pictures of cops who were murdered during a protest.

That's a stretch. I don't know why you feel the need to redefine something on other people's behalf so you can be comfortable with it. Is it just to be contrary? Are you trying to make peace with your own reaction to BLM, or defend the position held by friends and/or family?
I don't get why exactly, but it's definitely unsavory.

You don’t know what my stance is. I never respond to BLM by saying or chanting ALM.
I understand both sides.
Killing random cops is what started BLM, which lead into ALM. Sorry that’s unsavory to you.

Black Lives Matter

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